Guild Wars 2

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

but some of us here do think there is a very good reason to complain and not want
add ons in this game at all for this very easy and most simple reasons .

that is this the use of dps meters turns guild wars 2 into world of warcraft . and thus will only let in more add on junk to come to this game of guild wars 2 that will let hackers take over your acount and the game its self . and more

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

and doing all this will only fully drive more people away from this game then it has already done

mounts? pls explain how the usage of an external tool will lead to this?

ummm i already just did that thank you very much . and if you really want that answer
then go and get wow and play it . and see just how long it takes for your acount there to get hacked with the use of add ons . and see how it works for you . and even tho i do play wow . i do not use any add ons at all . never have and never will . and do not wish to see them in this game . as it will only drive more people away from the game than it has done now . like i already have said . oh and a have a nice day

Sorry it seems i am not as smart and experienced as you. Can you explain in simple words how using dps meters will lead to the game getting mounts?

i did not say that and please do not put words in my mouth too that i did not say . ok ???

you ask nicely so its like this they say ok to dps meters . look back lets say 6 months later and ok that went great and very well . lets say now how they like mounts add to the game . even tho there is already kinda of in a round about way a form of mounts in the game . with the flying carpet . so maybe in a way they put they did put the horse before the cart this time maybe lol

See Bolded Sections, you said allowing Dps meters would cause mounts to be added. So yes you did say that.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

snip

Snip

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

Snip

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

BlaqueFyre.5678:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

but some of us here do think there is a very good reason to complain and not want
add ons in this game at all for this very easy and most simple reasons .

that is this the use of dps meters turns guild wars 2 into world of warcraft . and thus will only let in more add on junk to come to this game of guild wars 2 that will let hackers take over your acount and the game its self . and more

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

and doing all this will only fully drive more people away from this game then it has already done

mounts? pls explain how the usage of an external tool will lead to this?

ummm i already just did that thank you very much . and if you really want that answer
then go and get wow and play it . and see just how long it takes for your acount there to get hacked with the use of add ons . and see how it works for you . and even tho i do play wow . i do not use any add ons at all . never have and never will . and do not wish to see them in this game . as it will only drive more people away from the game than it has done now . like i already have said . oh and a have a nice day

Sorry it seems i am not as smart and experienced as you. Can you explain in simple words how using dps meters will lead to the game getting mounts?

i did not say that and please do not put words in my mouth too that i did not say . ok ???

you ask nicely so its like this they say ok to dps meters . look back lets say 6 months later and ok that went great and very well . lets say now how they like mounts add to the game . even tho there is already kinda of in a round about way a form of mounts in the game . with the flying carpet . so maybe in a way they put they did put the horse before the cart this time maybe lol

See Bolded Sections, you said allowing Dps meters would cause mounts to be added. So yes you did say that.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

snip

Snip

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

Snip

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

grass is blue sky is red my nails are purple . i fail to even see your point is other than maybe you can copy and paste stuff together well to make up something at best

Fatalyz.7168:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Amaimon.7823:

Feanor.2358:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

but some of us here do think there is a very good reason to complain and not want
add ons in this game at all for this very easy and most simple reasons .

that is this the use of dps meters turns guild wars 2 into world of warcraft . and thus will only let in more add on junk to come to this game of guild wars 2 that will let hackers take over your acount and the game its self . and more

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

and doing all this will only fully drive more people away from this game then it has already done

Lots of statements, zero reasoning. You get points for doomsaying, but you don’t really expect to be taken seriously, do you?

I woldn’t give him the satisfaction of calling them “statements”
I’ve played WoW for quite some time and I have never experienced this “ruin” he speaks of

thanks a lot for gendering me . and giving me the wrong gender to boot . i done my job very well i see . and now back on topic now . let’s say i think a game should be played the way it was meant to be played . and without add ons or any other extras

Pretty sure “he” was being used generically, that is a thing.

More to the point, you haven’t said how adding dps meters into the game leads to mounts.

trying to ask the same question over and over again ., is too boring here . and if one was to be very techy here . and could make the case for mounts in the game already case in point flying carpets

so maybe the whole thing of all this is just plain backwards and no one is even getting that at all. now am off to look at some louis vuitton :P

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

but some of us here do think there is a very good reason to complain and not want
add ons in this game at all for this very easy and most simple reasons .

that is this the use of dps meters turns guild wars 2 into world of warcraft . and thus will only let in more add on junk to come to this game of guild wars 2 that will let hackers take over your acount and the game its self . and more

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

and doing all this will only fully drive more people away from this game then it has already done

mounts? pls explain how the usage of an external tool will lead to this?

ummm i already just did that thank you very much . and if you really want that answer
then go and get wow and play it . and see just how long it takes for your acount there to get hacked with the use of add ons . and see how it works for you . and even tho i do play wow . i do not use any add ons at all . never have and never will . and do not wish to see them in this game . as it will only drive more people away from the game than it has done now . like i already have said . oh and a have a nice day

Sorry it seems i am not as smart and experienced as you. Can you explain in simple words how using dps meters will lead to the game getting mounts?

i did not say that and please do not put words in my mouth too that i did not say . ok ???

you ask nicely so its like this they say ok to dps meters . look back lets say 6 months later and ok that went great and very well . lets say now how they like mounts add to the game . even tho there is already kinda of in a round about way a form of mounts in the game . with the flying carpet . so maybe in a way they put they did put the horse before the cart this time maybe lol

See Bolded Sections, you said allowing Dps meters would cause mounts to be added. So yes you did say that.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

snip

Snip

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

Snip

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

grass is blue sky is red my nails are purple . i fail to even see your point is other than maybe you can copy and paste stuff together well to make up something at best

the point here was that you literally said that addons would lead to mounts. When we ask you to back that up, you say you never said that. So we quote what you said, and then you come with some rebuttal like that. At least now we know that you’re not here to have a proper discussion so we can save our energy on people who actually want to have a conversation.

vesica tempestas.1563:

on a similar track can anyone remember if there was any dps meter for GW1 raiding?

There was no need for a dps meter in GW1 for a variety of reasons.

First of all the damage difference between good and bad gear wasn’t at the same level as in GW2. Getting max damage weapons was easy in GW1, getting max armor was also easy. In GW2 getting that max gear is a lot harder.

Second, the hardest part in GW1 were the mobs before the boss, in almost all the dungeons. Reaching the end boss was the hard part, not the actual boss fights, and in trash mob fights there were far more important to deal with than damage (good pulls, focus fire on healers etc)

Third, the fights in GW1 didn’t last 5+ minutes because mobs (not only bosses) weren’t damage sponges, instead they had proper builds and healing capabilities. A lot of the bosses (and the trash mobs) had healing/defensive capabilities.

What’s the point in counting how much dps you are doing if your foes are healing themselves?
What’s the point in counting your dps if your foe can use damage mitigating abilities? A single Protective Spirit used would lead to completely “fake” results.
It’s like saying that a dps meter has any kind of value in pvp. It doesn’t. GW1 pve used the same mechanics, and most of the same skills, as pvp. In GW2 they are completely different.

Let’s be careful Maddoctor, if you start suggesting that Raid Bosses should have healing and defensive capabilities, the encounters might get even more difficult.

:P

Amaimon.7823:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

but some of us here do think there is a very good reason to complain and not want
add ons in this game at all for this very easy and most simple reasons .

that is this the use of dps meters turns guild wars 2 into world of warcraft . and thus will only let in more add on junk to come to this game of guild wars 2 that will let hackers take over your acount and the game its self . and more

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

and doing all this will only fully drive more people away from this game then it has already done

mounts? pls explain how the usage of an external tool will lead to this?

ummm i already just did that thank you very much . and if you really want that answer
then go and get wow and play it . and see just how long it takes for your acount there to get hacked with the use of add ons . and see how it works for you . and even tho i do play wow . i do not use any add ons at all . never have and never will . and do not wish to see them in this game . as it will only drive more people away from the game than it has done now . like i already have said . oh and a have a nice day

Sorry it seems i am not as smart and experienced as you. Can you explain in simple words how using dps meters will lead to the game getting mounts?

i did not say that and please do not put words in my mouth too that i did not say . ok ???

you ask nicely so its like this they say ok to dps meters . look back lets say 6 months later and ok that went great and very well . lets say now how they like mounts add to the game . even tho there is already kinda of in a round about way a form of mounts in the game . with the flying carpet . so maybe in a way they put they did put the horse before the cart this time maybe lol

See Bolded Sections, you said allowing Dps meters would cause mounts to be added. So yes you did say that.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

snip

Snip

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

Snip

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

grass is blue sky is red my nails are purple . i fail to even see your point is other than maybe you can copy and paste stuff together well to make up something at best

the point here was that you literally said that addons would lead to mounts. When we ask you to back that up, you say you never said that. So we quote what you said, and then you come with some rebuttal like that. At least now we know that you’re not here to have a proper discussion so we can save our energy on people who actually want to have a conversation.

oh thanks for letting me know that . now i gotten great news of the day . ahh you still fail to get my points . and that is this even tho mini pets have been in the get go . even tho dps meters have not . making this game to be more like wow than guild wars its self even .

Sykper.6583:

Let’s be careful Maddoctor, if you start suggesting that Raid Bosses should have healing and defensive capabilities, the encounters might get even more difficult.

:P

Well I mean.. they should. Just tweak down the HP to compensate. :P

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

oh thanks for letting me know that . now i gotten great news of the day . ahh you still fail to get my points . and that is this even tho mini pets have been in the get go . even tho dps meters have not . making this game to be more like wow than guild wars its self even .

Gonna save everyone a lot of time here.

Ahem, on the subject that GW2 is turning into WoW simply because DPS meters have been added as a measure for the Raiding Niche in this game, the overwhelming consensus suggests…“No, that’s really silly.”

If anything, WoW has been making more strides to turn into GW2, heck I can make a comparison with WoW adopting Transmogs, because everyone likes to run a certain look regardless of the gear.

OH MY GOD I must post on the Blizzard forums that WoW is turning into GW2! Full Panic!

Rauderi.8706:

Sykper.6583:

Let’s be careful Maddoctor, if you start suggesting that Raid Bosses should have healing and defensive capabilities, the encounters might get even more difficult.

:P

Well I mean.. they should. Just tweak down the HP to compensate. :P

I am a firm believer that the Raid Devs should continue to encourage varied encounters and design that test the full limits of the raid group. Coordinating consecutive breakbars from the Deimos encounter for instance, that can be a plan to consistently control a ‘Healer’ boss to prevent healing, or a rapid series of dodges and evasions.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Amaimon.7823:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

OniGiri.9461:

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

but some of us here do think there is a very good reason to complain and not want
add ons in this game at all for this very easy and most simple reasons .

that is this the use of dps meters turns guild wars 2 into world of warcraft . and thus will only let in more add on junk to come to this game of guild wars 2 that will let hackers take over your acount and the game its self . and more

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

and doing all this will only fully drive more people away from this game then it has already done

mounts? pls explain how the usage of an external tool will lead to this?

ummm i already just did that thank you very much . and if you really want that answer
then go and get wow and play it . and see just how long it takes for your acount there to get hacked with the use of add ons . and see how it works for you . and even tho i do play wow . i do not use any add ons at all . never have and never will . and do not wish to see them in this game . as it will only drive more people away from the game than it has done now . like i already have said . oh and a have a nice day

Sorry it seems i am not as smart and experienced as you. Can you explain in simple words how using dps meters will lead to the game getting mounts?

i did not say that and please do not put words in my mouth too that i did not say . ok ???

you ask nicely so its like this they say ok to dps meters . look back lets say 6 months later and ok that went great and very well . lets say now how they like mounts add to the game . even tho there is already kinda of in a round about way a form of mounts in the game . with the flying carpet . so maybe in a way they put they did put the horse before the cart this time maybe lol

See Bolded Sections, you said allowing Dps meters would cause mounts to be added. So yes you did say that.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

Feanor.2358:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

snip

Snip

• and keeping its networking enabled. You can disable it and only use it to see your own performance. Personally, I think this is a pretty decent middle ground and I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about it.

Snip

not only that but with the add ons being allowed in this game . it will bring other bad things like mounts and take way from the game even more

grass is blue sky is red my nails are purple . i fail to even see your point is other than maybe you can copy and paste stuff together well to make up something at best

the point here was that you literally said that addons would lead to mounts. When we ask you to back that up, you say you never said that. So we quote what you said, and then you come with some rebuttal like that. At least now we know that you’re not here to have a proper discussion so we can save our energy on people who actually want to have a conversation.

oh thanks for letting me know that . now i gotten great news of the day . ahh you still fail to get my points . and that is this even tho mini pets have been in the get go . even tho dps meters have not . making this game to be more like wow than guild wars its self even .

Now you’re suddenly switching the argument to minipets. You do realize that minipets are as old as the day Guild Wars 1: Prophecies was released, do you?
And we’re most certainly not missing any points, I think our shotguns pierced right through them

vesica tempestas.1563:

on a similar track can anyone remember if there was any dps meter for GW1 raiding?

No, but there was a demand for 8/8-10/10, or just 10/10 back when Ursanway was a thing.

ZoSo.4867:

I just did a fractal run and apparently everyone in the group had dps meters that let you see everyones dps and gear and all gave me a mouth full at the end for not using the ‘meta’ build. I didn’t concent to people being able to see my stuff they definitely need to not allow this!

You’re not imagining things, one of the meters advertised as the “big 3” isn’t compliant with ANets new rules. I woke up to a couple is this thread real questions, and made a short guide in a reddit post on how users can investigate 3rd party tools themselves to see how truthful the claims of compliance are. Not that it mattered. Apparently advertising tools is ok, but posting that certain tools are not ok is not ok.

So the tl;dr:
1) yes, BGDM contains gearcheck in current builds against ANet’s wishes.
2) yes, it is “hidden” behind a single ini key. This option is not mentioned anywhere on BGDM’s site.
3) yes, by the amount of replies in that thread that mysteriously knew it was related to ini keys, it is being shared exclusively with members of the community.
Anyone who’s used a debugger enough to find how to search module for string references can find it if you don’t believe me.

A different way to look a this: if a tool contained hidden functionality that gathered all resources from a map using all your characters automatically, was advertised as not having this functionality, and then it was shared exclusively that it does in fact do this, does an anticheat system that looks for the presence of a mod care about how the mod is configured? I can say with a 100% guarantee that the answer to this is no. Effectively you’re meat in the shield of ‘they can’t ban all of us if only some of us use the non-tos-compliant option’.

deltaconnected.4058:

ZoSo.4867:

I just did a fractal run and apparently everyone in the group had dps meters that let you see everyones dps and gear and all gave me a mouth full at the end for not using the ‘meta’ build. I didn’t concent to people being able to see my stuff they definitely need to not allow this!

You’re not imagining things, one of the meters advertised as the “big 3” isn’t compliant with ANets new rules. I woke up to a couple is this thread real questions, and made a short guide in a reddit post on how users can investigate 3rd party tools themselves to see how truthful the claims of compliance are. Not that it mattered. Apparently advertising tools is ok, but posting that certain tools are not ok is not ok.

So the tl;dr:
1) yes, BGDM contains gearcheck in current builds against ANet’s wishes.
2) yes, it is “hidden” behind a single ini key. This option is not mentioned anywhere on BGDM’s site.
3) yes, by the amount of replies in that thread that mysteriously knew it was related to ini keys, it is being shared exclusively with members of the community.
Anyone who’s used a debugger enough to find how to search module for string references can find it if you don’t believe me.

A different way to look a this: if a tool contained hidden functionality that gathered all resources from a map using all your characters automatically, was advertised as not having this functionality, and then it was shared exclusively that it does in fact do this, does an anticheat system that looks for the presence of a mod care about how the mod is configured? I can say with a 100% guarantee that the answer to this is no. Effectively you’re meat in the shield of ‘they can’t ban all of us if only some of us use the non-tos-compliant option’.

They actually advertise 2 versions:
BDGM without gear check, which is compliant with anet’s wishlist.
And a complete BDGM which isn’t compliant with anet’s wishlist. when you download the button actually says in red that anet does not approve of that version. If you’re sure someone is seeing your gear and stats, and not just basing it on watching you play, then you should report them. Anet can see when you have an addon like bdgm up and can see if you actually saw someone’s gear.

Amaimon.7823:

They actually advertise 2 versions:
BDGM without gear check, which is compliant with anet’s wishlist.

Can’t seem to find it on BGDM’s site. Care to toss me a link to where?

deltaconnected.4058:

ZoSo.4867:

I just did a fractal run and apparently everyone in the group had dps meters that let you see everyones dps and gear and all gave me a mouth full at the end for not using the ‘meta’ build. I didn’t concent to people being able to see my stuff they definitely need to not allow this!

You’re not imagining things, one of the meters advertised as the “big 3” isn’t compliant with ANets new rules. I woke up to a couple is this thread real questions, and made a short guide in a reddit post on how users can investigate 3rd party tools themselves to see how truthful the claims of compliance are. Not that it mattered. Apparently advertising tools is ok, but posting that certain tools are not ok is not ok.

So the tl;dr:
1) yes, BGDM contains gearcheck in current builds against ANet’s wishes.
2) yes, it is “hidden” behind a single ini key. This option is not mentioned anywhere on BGDM’s site.
3) yes, by the amount of replies in that thread that mysteriously knew it was related to ini keys, it is being shared exclusively with members of the community.
Anyone who’s used a debugger enough to find how to search module for string references can find it if you don’t believe me.

A different way to look a this: if a tool contained hidden functionality that gathered all resources from a map using all your characters automatically, was advertised as not having this functionality, and then it was shared exclusively that it does in fact do this, does an anticheat system that looks for the presence of a mod care about how the mod is configured? I can say with a 100% guarantee that the answer to this is no. Effectively you’re meat in the shield of ‘they can’t ban all of us if only some of us use the non-tos-compliant option’.

I feel like I need a shower after reading some of those thread comments.
Regardless, found that fascinating so thanks for sharing.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

Well then the answer is no, not yes. I specified that no consent in any way was needed. I don’t get what everyone is complaining about then. If nobody knows your dps unless you allow them to know, then what exactly is the problem here?

Because my simulation in arc is accurate enough to be taken at face value.

Edit: and since I’m already posting here, I may as well say that I plan to stick to not using any network resources in closed projects, meaning an opt-out list is unlikely to happen in my tool. It’s a lot of effort to build, and from what I’ve gathered, you’ll likely get kicked for opting out even faster than for low dps.

Some more info about BGDM..
The Chinese client does not support an API so it is impossible to ‘gear check’ via the API via sites like gw2efficiency – no API support for the Chinese client makes it impossible to validate gear in any other way. This is one reason why that version exists. So the Chinese client users arre unofficially supported using one with DPS / inspection via the tool. That server is also run by a different company with different TOS- specific to the Chinese market.

The NA/EU client supports APIs – so gear checks can be made via API based applications. For this simple reason no Gear checks are required via an in game tool. Different TOS.

From BGDM’s website:

1. [1.7.0.1] 2017-02-08 23:30
   FIRST ANET COMPLIANT RELEASE: removed gear-check module

The only versions of the app I can find to download are after this.

Where can I find a version that allows me to gear check someone who didn’t already download the app themselves?

At the end of the day it boils down to: groups use dps meters and require you to use one -> in fear of being kicked you just dps /stack quickness etc. and ignore everything else -> more failed attempts actually because players don’t rez other and/or ignore fight mechanics for the sake of better dps/stats not to mention few players that will probably quit raiding all together due to rising toxicity and stress factor. I guess this is what community and Anet want.

deltaconnected.4058:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

From BGDM’s website:

1. [1.7.0.1] 2017-02-08 23:30
   FIRST ANET COMPLIANT RELEASE: removed gear-check module

The only versions of the app I can find to download are after this.

Where can I find a version that allows me to gear check someone who didn’t already download the app themselves?

You already have it. You just add in a an INI key that’s posted on EG’s forums and you’re good to go.

So the INI that I downloaded can’t inspect other people’s gear. I have to do something non-standard to view other people’s gear?

Then in answer to the original question:
There is no compliant version of the DPS meter that allows you to inspect people’s gear without them also downloading the same meter. People looking at your gear are not using the complaint version of the app.

Anyone who is using a DPS meter, whatever software version it may be, that allows for gear-checking is not compliant with what Arenanet has posted.

Report them immediately.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

deltaconnected.4058:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

From BGDM’s website:

1. [1.7.0.1] 2017-02-08 23:30
   FIRST ANET COMPLIANT RELEASE: removed gear-check module

The only versions of the app I can find to download are after this.

Where can I find a version that allows me to gear check someone who didn’t already download the app themselves?

You already have it. You just add in a an INI key that’s posted on EG’s forums and you’re good to go.

So the INI that I downloaded can’t inspect other people’s gear. I have to do something non-standard to view other people’s gear?

Then in answer to the original question:
There is no compliant version of the DPS meter that allows you to inspect people’s gear without them also downloading the same meter. People looking at your gear are not using the complaint version of the app.

The ini file is literally just a config/text file which tells the meter to turn on gear check or not. Since the code isn’t open source, there’s no telling if the gear check module is disabled by default or simply just hidden away from showing. So the worst case scenario is, you download the “legit copy”, thinking it’s ok but it has the gear check running in the background anyway without letting you know.

However I don’t use BGDM so I can’t confirm that this is the case, this is just what I am seeing on reddit/here. There might in fact be actually 2 versions of BGDM (not just ini tweaks) but idk.

What Arc does is have 2 versions, one that is totally compliant and one that isn’t (use at your own risk) type of thing. So I use the compliant one.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

So the INI that I downloaded can’t inspect other people’s gear. I have to do something non-standard to view other people’s gear?

Then in answer to the original question:
There is no compliant version of the DPS meter that allows you to inspect people’s gear without them also downloading the same meter. People looking at your gear are not using the complaint version of the app.

So what you’re telling me it is perfectly acceptable if I include inspection features in arcdps, write in my changenotes that I have removed it, distribute the same d3d9.dll to everyone, and then tell my friends and guild that they can enable it by adding in a single line to the configuration?

Sorry, but there are no multiple “versions” of BGDM. There is only one bgdm.dll. And users who are privileged and unprivileged to have or not have the knowledge on how to turn it on, or that it even exists in the binary they are running.

My point is: the complaint version of the app doesn’t allow it. Despite the alarmist screenshot linked above, that version of the app is not complaint; someone altered their download to make it able to read gear.

(I get that it might be trivial to do so; that doesn’t change that they aren’t using the complaint app as made available by the developer — they purposefully altered it to make it non-compliant. An INI file is part of the app, just like a DLL or any other required file is.)

So again, in answer to the original question:
No, there is no way someone can know your gear or your DPS without your implicit permission while running a complaint DPS meter.

If you suspect someone of running something non-compliant (e.g. they can tell you your gear), then screenshot the evidence and send in a support ticket.

Going to be very blunt here.

The players running the non-compliant version that allows for gear-checking aren’t interested in the DPS meter. We’ve gotten the OK to have DPS being tracked, that should suffice for the vast majority of players involved with that tool, but these players running a gear-checker are likely involved in wanting to find any measure to ridicule low-performing players.

Guilds, and raid leaders who run meters appropriately and legally are looking at these numbers and wanting to help out players who might need a nudge to figure out why they are performing sub-optimally. That’s extremely fair, and only serves to help the community as a whole. However there’s an abusive angle that can come about from using a gear-check, especially since despite what the meta has claimed, there have been very rare instances where the meta can be challenged for builds. And given that Arenanet drew the line at gear-checking, they are aware of it as well.

I’ll feel no sympathy for raiders who abuse the DPS meter to include Gear-checking.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

So the INI that I downloaded can’t inspect other people’s gear. I have to do something non-standard to view other people’s gear?

Then in answer to the original question:
There is no compliant version of the DPS meter that allows you to inspect people’s gear without them also downloading the same meter. People looking at your gear are not using the complaint version of the app.

deltaconnected.4058:

So what you’re telling me it is perfectly acceptable if I include inspection features in arcdps, write in my changenotes that I have removed it, distribute the same d3d9.dll to everyone, and then tell my friends and guild that they can enable it by adding in a single line to the configuration?

If the developer is telling people that, then I’d suggest you report the developer to ANet and let them decide.

I went to the website, downloaded the app. Until you told me about it, I had no way to use it to show gear.

deltaconnected.4058:

Sorry, but there are no multiple “versions” of BGDM. There is only one bgdm.dll. And users who are privileged and unprivileged to have or not have the knowledge on how to turn it on, or that it even exists in the binary they are running.

Should the developer recompile so that it’s impossible with the most recent DLL? Of course I agree with that. I think they shirked some responsibility by focusing on other ‘features’ before taking care of that.

All the same, I can run the older version of arcdps; that’s also non-compliant in the same way. It’s not what the developer made available as “non-compliant” — it’s more than use “at your own risk,” it’s a known violation of the accommodation made by ANet. So is using BGDM with an INI file altered to allow the DLL to be non-compliant.

But you know what? It absolutely doesn’t matter what I think nor does it matter what you think. It’s up to ANet to decide if they care.

tl;dr if you think BGDM in its current form is non-compliant, tell ANet (or better: tell the developer and give them a chance to fix it). In the meantime, using the app as intended according to its website should be fine.

And regardless, for the people worrying about someone reading the gear or getting their exact DPS — it remains against the rules. Those who have evidence of someone doing that should definitely report suspected violations to ANet, regardless of how you think they are doing it.

deltaconnected.4058:

Because my simulation in arc is accurate enough to be taken at face value.

Edit: and since I’m already posting here, I may as well say that I plan to stick to not using any network resources in closed projects, meaning an opt-out list is unlikely to happen in my tool. It’s a lot of effort to build, and from what I’ve gathered, you’ll likely get kicked for opting out even faster than for low dps.

I support your decision, for the stated reasons. I think it’s amazing that you’ve made the app available to players to use as intended to help them work on their own DPS and help out others.

Thanks for your hard work.

I’m not gonna defend myself from reading into “decouple QoL” literally, but even in the non-ToS compliant extras I won’t include anything explicitly said to remove. I moved the code out to it’s own module, because that way if ANet is not happy with me providing window flashing or build templates or auto moving reward chests to inventory in there, they can easily detect the presence of restricted. I even keep my code ‘just breakable enough’ so that major game content updates will eventually force you to update so if you can manage to make an old build run without crashes I failed on that part.

I have nothing against gear check either – I’ve seen almost as many helpful reminders as I have toxicity – but ANet made their decision fairly clear. My argument in this is that there is nothing differentiating the compliant and non-compliant way of running it which inherently puts all the compliant users at risk.

deltaconnected.4058:

Amaimon.7823:

They actually advertise 2 versions:
BDGM without gear check, which is compliant with anet’s wishlist.

Can’t seem to find it on BGDM’s site. Care to toss me a link to where?

http://gw2bgdm.blogspot.se/p/faq.html

But I see it’s changed, it now says:
“COMPATIBLE WITH GAME UPDATE
FEBRUARY 22nd, 2017 [BUILD: 72,781]
BGDM is now officially allowed by ANET!
IMGUI BETA IS NOW LIVE!!!
HELP!!! I WANT THE OLD UI BACK!
CLICK HERE FOR THE OLD VERSION OF THE FAQ”

So they just removed the link to gearchecking version altogether

So hey here is a whacky idea anet devs keep to your original promise of no adds ever and ban every player that is using them

MarkoNS.3261:

So hey here is a whacky idea anet devs keep to your original promise of no adds ever and ban every player that is using them

Good thing DPS meters aren’t add-ons, they are overlays, completely different things.

Fatalyz.7168:

MarkoNS.3261:

So hey here is a whacky idea anet devs keep to your original promise of no adds ever and ban every player that is using them

Good thing DPS meters aren’t add-ons, they are overlays, completely different things.

That is, at best, a “semantics” argument, and at worse, “rules lawyering”. You and I both know exactly what MarkoNS meant when they said that, and pretending otherwise is a cheap shot.

I disagree with the idea that they should be bannable, but mostly because they were already a thing with image recognition DPS meters prior to the “ugh, fine, whatever” statements about memory-reading code injection meters.

You can’t stop people doing this stuff.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

That is, at best, a “semantics” argument, and at worse, “rules lawyering”. You and I both know exactly what MarkoNS meant when they said that, and pretending otherwise is a cheap shot.

It’s not sematics at all though. Add-ons are direct modifications of the game and it’s functioning. GW2’s meters are just third party programs that provide a overlay.

Crinn.7864:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

That is, at best, a “semantics” argument, and at worse, “rules lawyering”. You and I both know exactly what MarkoNS meant when they said that, and pretending otherwise is a cheap shot.

It’s not sematics at all though. Add-ons are direct modifications of the game and it’s functioning. GW2’s meters are just third party programs that provide a overlay.

Ah! These arguments are about ArcDPS, BGDM, and GW2Helper, all of which obtain DPS information by injecting code into the GW2 process and reading the values directly from some part of the memory or network communication of the client.

That explains the confusion. They do, in fact, directly modify the game client in order to obtain the information, as well as to inject themselves into the rendering pipeline in order to draw their on screen displays.

If you were not aware of that, yes, that would seem like a significant distinction to draw.

Note: things like gw2navi, gw2pao, etc, that use the web API as a source of information, yes, are overlays, and thus not “addons” in the classic sense. That doesn’t provide any “real time” information about damage or anything, though, so you can’t build a damage meter like that.

Well, I guess this concludes that people in this forum are random af xD Like how did you go from “DPS meter is bad” to “Its just a leap through to Mounts, since they made flying carpets for like 2-3 years ago” xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Like daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

But for DPS meter……As it stands right now, people are abusing LI and LFG for joining a group beyond their capabilities, I see a lot of times where there are up to 3-4 people in my group that do not have the required gear, and try to hide it by showing 1 gear piece….So….is it fair that the 1 player cheats himself into a group and ruins the experience of 9 players. Or is it fair that 9 players decides to make a lunatic request of LI&gear? (100+, which would literally mean you should defeat 100 bosses which is around 8 weeks or 2 months of literaly grind if you take all the bosses in 1 week, which you wont, or you wouldnt need a pug group) Honestly think that dps meters are fine, since you can not check your mates gear, which is a thing I really think should be in this game………

This game is controversial, in that viewpoint that they create LFG, which generated one of the most “elite looking” ques of all time, yet still dont want to show gear, they make hard raids, though still dont want dps controling, they make in general hard content, and thinks that it is fine that people abuse the parties by lying if they can. THere are literally no other reason to let people hide their gear than them lying, like they could even lock it, but A-Net knows, that it would create a system where people would want to instantly look at their gear, though they decide that it is fine for people to lie if they can get away with it…….There are strong thoughts on both sides, but it is hard to go around facts, game is more controversial than Napoleon was.

Fatalyz.7168:

MarkoNS.3261:

So hey here is a whacky idea anet devs keep to your original promise of no adds ever and ban every player that is using them

Good thing DPS meters aren’t add-ons, they are overlays, completely different things.

same thing different package, both addones and “overlays” have the same functionality.

@zengara.8301 i wanted the ability to inspect peoples gear since dungeons were a thing long long ago.

MarkoNS.3261:

Fatalyz.7168:

MarkoNS.3261:

So hey here is a whacky idea anet devs keep to your original promise of no adds ever and ban every player that is using them

Good thing DPS meters aren’t add-ons, they are overlays, completely different things.

same thing different package, both addones and “overlays” have the same functionality.

Perhaps you should just clarify that you want people who don’t play game the way you think it should be played to be banned then?

Next you’re gonna complain world boss timer overlays cause toxicity lmao

@fishball.7204 this is not about me complaining but about anet and their stated position of no addons ever if you break the rulles you should be banned its simple, and anet devs should keep to their word.

ANet has already said overlays are fine and DPS meters that don’t do specific things such as gear checking are also fine.

Just because ANet said something in 2012 doesn’t mean it applies in 2017.

You know, in a way, the GW2 World Boss Timers are around the same deal, a 3rd party tool giving players information they might not easily track or handle themselves.

We should immediately ban anyone visiting that page on Dulfy.

Sykper.6583:

You know, in a way, the GW2 World Boss Timers are around the same deal, a 3rd party tool giving players information they might not easily track or handle themselves.

We should immediately ban anyone visiting that page on Dulfy.

Let’s not even get started on the mapping overlays that help you out with jumping puzzles.

fishball.7204:

ANet has already said overlays are fine and DPS meters that don’t do specific things such as gear checking are also fine.

Just because ANet said something in 2012 doesn’t mean it applies in 2017.

All QoL was disallowed and not just gearcheck. My hope is that by keeping it available as a use-at-your-own-risk extension I can at least show that not all QoL is harmful in the likes of gearcheck, requires no resources on the part of ANet to implement, and can provide popular community requests (build templates) while adhering to the usual rules.

Talindra.4958:

Jesus… this might help some of you here so there’s no doubt

http://gw2bgdm.blogspot.com.au/p/faq.html?m=1

I use BDGM and all I’d say is tht itsssss Gr8 never going back after I installed it.. never harassed anyone and never harassed by anyone who uses it. There is no gear check on the BDGM that I am using. It’s all legal under anet regulations. Read the author’s description as to which one to download.

+1
I also find using it motivational. It feels great when I see I’m doing well and I kind of want to keep it up.

deltaconnected.4058:

Sykper.6583:

You know, in a way, the GW2 World Boss Timers are around the same deal, a 3rd party tool giving players information they might not easily track or handle themselves.

We should immediately ban anyone visiting that page on Dulfy.

Let’s not even get started on the mapping overlays that help you out with jumping puzzles.

fishball.7204:

ANet has already said overlays are fine and DPS meters that don’t do specific things such as gear checking are also fine.

Just because ANet said something in 2012 doesn’t mean it applies in 2017.

All QoL was disallowed and not just gearcheck. My hope is that by keeping it available as a use-at-your-own-risk extension I can at least show that not all QoL is harmful in the likes of gearcheck, requires no resources on the part of ANet to implement, and can provide popular community requests (build templates) while adhering to the usual rules.

this is why your tools should be fully blocked by a good paid anti-virus program and windows firewall rules . it can be done for world of warcraft. then it can be done for your stuff too.

WARIORSCHARGEING.2637:

this is why your tools should be fully blocked by a good paid anti-virus program and windows firewall rules . it can be done for world of warcraft. then it can be done for your stuff too.

To be flagged by virus definitions or heuristics I have to, you know, do things that a virus would do. Likewise I use no network communication at all so there’s nothing to block by a firewall. ANet said that joining the party/squad means you consent for sharing combat data that is already known by the client. Don’t like it? Join a “no meters” group. Can’t find one? Make one.

MrPinks.2015:

MrPinks.2015:

Feanor.2358:

MrPinks.2015:

let me sum this up for people who did not understand

There was no way before to see how we can kick people out
now we do !
“in a friendly way ofc !”

So how exactly did people get kicked out before? Because they did, I guarantee it.

true but now you have a real reason for it !
how exciting !

also i was referring to this statement the guy made

“OW you can see who is responsible, and tell him he doesn’t meet your requirements (in a friendly manner of course). "

since it is very funny to me in a ironic way “in a friendly manner you dont meet our requirements”
our community is soooooooooooo friendly !
(this entire community is Smiley mask wearing people , once you take off the mask you see the true nature of this community and let me tell you amy schumar is nice compared to them)

First of all, I don’t really appreciate the sarcasm, if you don’t agree with what I said – fine, but don’t pretend like you stand over me.

And secondly, what’s wrong with having requirements? And in conclusion, exclude someone from the group because he/she doesn’t meet those?
If I do F40 farm and say “we need a group DPS of 75k/s to do this smoothly, we have 3 ele’s that do most of the damage and should do roughly 20k/s each, because if we DON’T do this much damage, the farm is not gonna work properly”. Then an ele joins and deals 5k/s, why do I have to carry him by doing 7,5k more DPS on the other ele’s to keep up the group DPS? Why can’t I just tell him after a couple of tries “Sorry, you don’t seem to be up to your game, and don’t deal enough damage for this group and the goals WE have, so we want to do this with another person, not you.”?

What I am reading mostly going through this thread is people complaining about DPS meters, because now everyone else might be able to see whether they underperform or not – and if they do, they can’t get away with it anymore.
But I don’t see why I should be forced to play with people I don’t want to play with, because they have different goals than I do. I’m competitive, okay, I want to raid with competitive people – not someone who is playing this game to relax (which is completely fine btw) and doesn’t do as much as I do.
Like someone already said – if you wanna drive slow on the highway, fine, do so. But don’t stick on the left lane and slow everyone else down because you think you drive the right speed.

DPS meters make me uncomfortable because people judge performance when they have no business doing so. Sadly, I have seen several instances since this Anet change where people are being called out in a squad for “under performing” as some of you call it in full HOT maps. Because people are doing a meta and “stuck” with whoever joined them.

I liked that they made some parts of the DPS meters folks used ‘legal’. I know it makes it easier for all the raiding folks. I’m not a rotations player and never will be. It means I never max out DPS like people want. IDK, my brain just can’t quite get how to make a rotation work outside of an enemy that is perfectly still and not fighting back. I know this means that most raids are out of my reach.

I just don’t want to be bothered in open world. I love making new characters, trying new things (aka not meta). Being harassed for not having enough boons, or might, or dps or whatever just isn’t what I signed up for in this game. I love theory crafting builds that work for my play style, I am good at organizing events in open world, and my dps sucks. So leave your DPS meter in the Aerodrome.

(side note: I think its funny that people get so wound up over gear checks-I have no issue showing mine-it shows how much work I’ve put in to max all my crafts, and to make legendary weapons. Just because you have full raid meta gear doesn’t mean you can use it. :P)

I do Ogre lane in TD every day with your guild pretty much and I’ve never seen anyone call out people specifically for low DPS.

I run the meter and I see people do low DPS, run bad builds etc but I never say anything and I know people in the squad who also run meters but say nothing either.

I have to wonder how prevalent it really is and whether or not you’re simply exaggerating your claims of DPS meters creating toxicity.

Quite often I’ve seen (pre DPS meters) people talking about trash DPS because for example, ogre took 3 burns in a pug. That’s pretty common but I’ve never seen a specific “necro you did 1k damage on gerent wat are u doing”, like ever.

It’s always been the case in open world, 20% of the people do like 60% of the dps. Getting confrontational over that does nothing.