Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So i was thinking maybe we could have a CDI next week about the logistics (Methods, format, etc etc) of better communication on both sides?

thoughts?

Chris

I feel as though, from past CDI’s, there should already be an abundance of resources and insight into what this community wants. Looking back, reflecting on these things… in some ways, seems better than opening up a number of “new” CDI’s that will likely result in wires being crossed.

I’m in the design industry, unrelated to gaming, but design regardless.
From my perspective… CDI’s are essentially like the “interview” process we have with our clients. From here, we receive a brief. (i.e. key points of contention, requirements for the job to come into fruition, a basis to work from)

We develop a “program”. This covers everything from who will be on the job, “expected” time taken, detailing the different stages of design from conceptual & design development, to practical completion. Order dates, expected delays… you get the point.

My point is, it feels like we’ve been ramming our heads against the wall “briefing” the “deisgner” for months… and months. It’s almost as if we’ve given you the brief, (CDI’s) you’ve said yep, great. We’ll take this on board and be working toward improving ____x feature__.

Monday morning, 8:45 AM. We’re the disgruntled client yelling at you over the phone, asking where our schematic designs are. You’re telling us you require another meeting before you can get started.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So i was thinking maybe we could have a CDI next week about the logistics (Methods, format, etc etc) of better communication on both sides?

thoughts?

Chris

Is a roadmap of sorts off the table for this? (i.e. give us the outline of the plans for the coming 3/6/whatever months)

I personally don’t think a lot of direct contact is needed when we are having ’’constant’’ updates on certain things. But they have been severely lacking.

I do think you can take a look at how other companies/structures are being handled.
For instance you could take from reddit how to make topics more structured. Each reply pretty much is it’s own ‘’sub-topic’’ inside of a post. This lets you reply to eachother regarding the same responses. I think that’d work nicely for this forum, in a more aesthatically pleasing way.

It also has to be made easier to find ‘’Dev Posts’’ inside of a topic. People care deeply for what you guys have to say, and currently the only way to easily find it is the Dev Tracker. But it’s still a hassle. Simply turn the Anet text bubble into a button that takes you to the post(s).

I loved the way the ‘’Mind Stab’’ discussion was handled for the mesmer.
IIRC someone at Anet mentioned we don’t like how it is now, we’re working on changing it. How would you like it being changed within it’s current function?
Debate happened. And now some time later we see a change.

Also, how open are you guys to debating every single skill/ability in the game? (More in the sense of, would this be useful to try and debate? I did something similar in a smaller way during the beta stage for the guardian, I didn’t seem to get anything out of that)

Think I’m already getting ahead of myself, sorry.

Chris, go home (If you haven’t already), hang with the family, play some GW2, have a good weekend. We’ll see you Monday.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So i was thinking maybe we could have a CDI next week about the logistics (Methods, format, etc etc) of better communication on both sides?

thoughts?

Chris

People seem to be of the opinion that CDIs never really did what they were supposed to do. If your solution to the communication problems (including CDIs) is to have a CDI on it, then you’re pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.

Forget the format for this one, and try just talking. Yes, you’ll get a lot of static and noise, but you get that in a CDI, too. And don’t talk about just the big game stuff. You’re human, talk like it. Act like it. You guys come across as faces and names without any souls or humor. Relax a little. You’ll get more understanding as a person than as a job title and a name.

Palador.2170:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So i was thinking maybe we could have a CDI next week about the logistics (Methods, format, etc etc) of better communication on both sides?

thoughts?

Chris

People seem to be of the opinion that CDIs never really did what they were supposed to do. If your solution to the communication problems (including CDIs) is to have a CDI on it, then you’re pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.

Forget the format for this one, and try just talking. Yes, you’ll get a lot of static and noise, but you get that in a CDI, too. And don’t talk about just the big game stuff. You’re human, talk like it. Act like it. You guys come across as faces and names without any souls or humor. Relax a little. You’ll get more understanding as a person than as a job title and a name.

I agree. Although having a formal setting to discuss stuff is great, an informal one would be just as productive, if not more so, than a formal setting.

(Shameless plug) I started an " improvised CDI thread" for that purpose. A place where we can communicate with you and you us, in a setting much more relaxed about a variety of topics without the QQ responses and frustration. Please at least check it out. I feel it would be great for everyone in that environment. Thanks!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think we should discuss options for discussion around road map but please understand if we do it will be theoretical design decisions on improving existing parts of the game as well as discussing potential evolutions.

Thanks for your feedback.

Chris

Ofcourse, we’ve already seen how some things didn’t go exactly like planned even though they were mentioned (such as a new legendary item/slot to be planned for 2013, still no news since that interview).

But some things in a more open way would be nice.
I feel a lot of people are tired of hearing ’’we’re working on something but we can’t tell you what it is’’. I realise you’ll have a lot of iteration on it… but lets take the commander tag change for instance. It is being changed because you decided to let us know about it. A lot of people voiced their opinion and you did something about it.
Lets say you just put that change into an update this tuesday without letting us know… no, instead you communicated (albeit a bit slow some might say) and found a different solution.
I feel you could use this kind of communication for a lot of other things as well.

Simply say ’’we’re currently working on finishing S2’’… that’s fine, you don’t have to tell if it will include bossfights, dungeons, or more areas to explore. But you could give us an outline of what you’re trying to achieve with it (i.e. extending your focus on story and continuity in the story).

And don’t be afraid to ask your community questions!

I think in the end people just want to know what to expect, or at least a little. We’re being left in the dark right now it feels like. I hope I speak for everyone here.

Chris, you have mentioned many times (or, at least, a few times) in the past CDIs that you (the Devs/ArenaNet) would communicate to us what ideas or implementation discussions were placed into the game. In other words, what feedback you took from the CDIs and implemented, in some form or other, into the game.

Considering how often it is commented on the forums how ArenaNet never listens, never uses anything from the CDIs (or any other feedback), I think it would be great if you (ArenaNet) could post a list of things that were either implemented, or influenced and found their way into, the game.

Could you perhaps do that this time? Soon-ish? I would be really interested, and it might make many players feel connected to see something they contributed to found its way into the game (in some form, anyway).

Thank you in advance. =)

You don’t have to look up any posts. Nor would it have to be you, personally. I would hope it is somewhat common knowledge among those responsible. Maybe just an internal email circulated that asks if any Designer/whoever used any suggestions/ideas.

I’m sure the forum-users will be all over finding the pertinent posts. Lol. Who wouldn’t want to take credit for a great idea! Just a list of things that were influenced by/implemented because of the CDIs. =)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You don’t have to look up any posts. I’m sure the forum-users will be all over that. Lol. Who wouldn’t want to take credit for a great idea! Just a list of things that were influenced by/implemented because of the CDIs. =)

Exactly, we don’t need a point by point presentation of every single small sniff of CDI that rubbed off into the game.

Just maybe the most meaningful things you can recall (top10?)

Some many red posts, I’m baffled… * -*

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Just a list of things that were influenced by/implemented because of the CDIs. =)

Yeah !
The ppl that participated on those CDIs should love some recognition !

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The whiners don’t count anything that is not something they are interested in. That is why I and others on this forum have stated that players only look at what they are interested in, not the whole picture of the game (looking at a tree and ignoring the forest).

exactly, WvWers still whine about getting NO updates since release while they got a whole map (EotM)… still they state that EotM is not a WvW map. Instead of bringing constructive criticism how EotM could be turned into something they feel is more in the spirit of WvW or bringing ideas how to include some features from EotM into classic WvW maps they favour whining about NOTHING NEW.

It’s actually even worse than this. Dedicated WvW players beta tested that map and were generally excited and happy about it and gave feedback and feedback was listened to.

They didn’t see what would happen when it went live. Neither did Anet. It’s very easy to look at a company and say they should have seen. Well in that case they had a test server so many ask for, and after release it still has intended consequences.

I’m not surprised WvW players aren’t universally in love with EotM. But they had plenty of chance to affect how it turned out before it launched.

If Anet honestly relies on beta testers for WvW, than that shows me the WvW team has no confidence in themselves
I’m not even going to talk about EoTM – That map had no affect whatsoever on the actual WvW… it was installed purely as a solution to the queue problem a lot of players had in the high tier servers..but I will say this – How long as EoTM been out? And What exactly has Anet done about the EoTM since it’s release? right, they have pretty much thrown it aside and said “screw it, we don’t care about it anymore”

I’m criticizing the fact that whatever WvW team exists has consistently failed to produce any interesting or refreshing content, and give us a few minor and relatively inconsequential updates after months of silence and waiting. And they decided to hype up these dull updates as big, “game-changing” additions.
No offense but months of waiting all leading up to a ONE new trap and ONE new mastery and new a couple colors for a tag lol? is this real?
There’s a laundry list of things dedicated WvW players have asked for, but anet does not want to put in actual resources and serious development time for WvW, which is why this game is going no where in regards to WvW/sPvP.
The roadmap for PvP posted nearly a year ago has literally gone completely off the road lol.

Utter lack of commitment to these aspects of the game. Yea they listen to the community alright, its just they choose to neglect anything that requires a lot of dedicated work, which means we are left with subpar/mediocre updates to sPvP/WvW systems…

The feedback on the trait system has been up for what, 4 months?
Red just now posted they are looking at it lol…great..so 4 months and you still can’t tell us about any progress? Just.. “we have read your concerns lol?” Welp, guess we might see some changes to it next april lol

If you think this is good communication, by all means keep being satisfied… just know a lot of players don’t share that opinion

The most ridiculous comment ever is that a company has a problem if it depends on beta testers. It’s like saying writers have a problem if they depend on editors.

All programs depend on beta testing to find flaws. All of them.

Other things have happened in WvW, including account bound WxP, but the thing is, I keep hearing WvW people saying nothing has been doing and listing stuff and ignoring EotM.

You mean they didn’t spend a year working on that?

Vayne.8563:

Other things have happened in WvW, including account bound WxP, but the thing is, I keep hearing WvW people saying nothing has been doing and listing stuff and ignoring EotM.

You mean they didn’t spend a year working on that?

Disclaimer: I don’t play PvP or WvW.

I think the problem with EotM is that it doesn’t matter what you do there. There’s an actual contest to WvW, and actions taken in EotM simply don’t count for it. It’s WvW based, though, so it leaves it in an odd grey area.

Palador.2170:

Vayne.8563:

Other things have happened in WvW, including account bound WxP, but the thing is, I keep hearing WvW people saying nothing has been doing and listing stuff and ignoring EotM.

You mean they didn’t spend a year working on that?

Disclaimer: I don’t play PvP or WvW.

I think the problem with EotM is that it doesn’t matter what you do there. There’s an actual contest to WvW, and actions taken in EotM simply don’t count for it. It’s WvW based, though, so it leaves it in an odd grey area.

It was supposed to be something for people who wanted to get into WvW and had to queue up for servers which weren’t low-tier to get some play in rather than waiting X hours.

Honestly I’m surprised it turned out so well.

Mr. Whiteside, do you take community feedback into “balance” changes? Like there are some things in this coming balance patch that negatively affect PvE (not talking about firey exploit sword), but have little to no affect on PvP (like the gs 100b and wwa nerf), and it just doesn’t make sense. Are these balances already a done deal, or are you taking feedback into what’s going on?

Once again, I’m really grateful that you’re talking to us again. Although you said that it’s not about gems, at the end of the day, it’s still a business, and what you’re doing is great for business. I’m actually going to buy gems again for the first time in a year.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It was supposed to be something for people who wanted to get into WvW and had to queue up for servers which weren’t low-tier to get some play in rather than waiting X hours.

Honestly I’m surprised it turned out so well.

Pretty much this. I know some people really like it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

So i was thinking maybe we could have a CDI next week about the logistics (Methods, format, etc etc) of better communication on both sides?

thoughts?

Chris

To quote Picard: Make it so.

I mean, I’d rather the CDIs continue to be about the game. But, honestly. This is probably one of the best ways to go about building that communication foundation.

So if you guys are serious about this better communication plan, then I say yes. This is a good idea. Have a CDI that allows everyone interested to get on the same page about feedback, communication, and interaction. The quicker the foundation is set, the quicker everything can get back on track.

i know a lot of people who exclusively only play eotm but it isnt my cup of tea but if i have to wait to play wvw i dont mind going there to waste time. so i dont think it was a waste of time. it working as intended id say. as for the cdis chris and a few others i felt yall gave us so much beyond what was required for them. but i think a lot of what you had to do there was keep people in line whereas i felt a community person could have done that and you could have did most of the back and forth. i also like to see things that come out of them that made it into the game. i think the commander tags and colors was part that did. i also wouldnt mind if the cdis went back to topics that were worked on previous and explained why something couldnt be implemented. i do understand not everything we suggested can be implemented.(ive done some game programming myself) i loved the cdis although i never participated in them. main reason others used to get there ideas in there which were better then i thought and my typing isnt the greatest and i felt the whole discussion actually went places and were good for the community. so yes thanks chris for chiming in here it is appreciated

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Mr. Whiteside, do you take community feedback into “balance” changes? Like there are some things in this coming balance patch that negatively affect PvE (not talking about firey exploit sword), but have little to no affect on PvP (like the gs 100b and wwa nerf), and it just doesn’t make sense. Are these balances already a done deal, or are you taking feedback into what’s going on?

Once again, I’m really grateful that you’re talking to us again. Although you said that it’s not about gems, at the end of the day, it’s still a business, and what you’re doing is great for business. I’m actually going to buy gems again for the first time in a year.

The Devs said (on the Ready-Ups) the changes weren’t set yet, and to post your feedback in the Profession Balance sub-forum. You can also see Dev posts (a couple listed below) there asking that feedback be posted there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Ready-Up-Episode-18-7-25-Noon-PDT/first#post4231216

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Ready-Up-Episode-18-7-25-Noon-PDT/first#post4231595

Good luck.

I can’t help but get the feeling that this is more about placating us than any real change. I’ve seen companies say “this is a whole new era. We’re going to start communicating with you now!” and the player base gets excited, and then nothing comes of it, and the company depends on the time investment to keep people playing instead of actually doing anything to change it. Look at the trait thread. Four months of silence, and then “You guys make some good points. We’re going to have some meetings.” What were you DOING for 4 months? What’s the POINT of a feedback thread if you don’t look at it for 4 months, and only then 2 weeks before your next feature patch goes live. What CONCRETE steps are you taking to communicate with us better? We don’t need more cagey answer dodging replies filled with corporate doublespeak. That’s worse than silence, because it kind of insults our intelligence when you think you can say something without really saying anything.

As for CDIs, the only thing I can see that came from the CDI was the colored commander tag, and boy, did you handle that badly. And the Dredge fractal, which only took 1.5 years of complaining about to change. I understand stuff takes time, and I also understand that you’ve been burned badly by the precursor crafting thing, but if you want people to love the game, and love the company, you can’t act like a brick wall that occasionally spits out patches, and then refuses to listen, or even worse, gets upset when we don’t play the way you want to (see the knight attack in lion’s arch thing, where you got upset when we figured out a way around your plans, and then made us play the way you wanted to.) That update had 8 patches, still the current leader, tho dragon’s reach part 1 gave it a good challenge.

Wasnt there a CDI about how to do/format CDIs? What is this next one then? I am not trying to be negative here but isnt this going to be the second discussion about how to have discussions ? Wouldnt it be more productive to talk about the game rather than to talk about talking about the game ?

Either way, thank you for poking your head in here. It really is appreciated.

Becka Williams.4978:

I can’t help but get the feeling that this is more about placating us than any real change. I’ve seen companies say “this is a whole new era. We’re going to start communicating with you now!” and the player base gets excited, and then nothing comes of it, and the company depends on the time investment to keep people playing instead of actually doing anything to change it. Look at the trait thread. Four months of silence, and then “You guys make some good points. We’re going to have some meetings.” What were you DOING for 4 months? What’s the POINT of a feedback thread if you don’t look at it for 4 months, and only then 2 weeks before your next feature patch goes live. What CONCRETE steps are you taking to communicate with us better? We don’t need more cagey answer dodging replies filled with corporate doublespeak. That’s worse than silence, because it kind of insults our intelligence when you think you can say something without really saying anything.

As for CDIs, the only thing I can see that came from the CDI was the colored commander tag, and boy, did you handle that badly. And the Dredge fractal, which only took 1.5 years of complaining about to change. I understand stuff takes time, and I also understand that you’ve been burned badly by the precursor crafting thing, but if you want people to love the game, and love the company, you can’t act like a brick wall that occasionally spits out patches, and then refuses to listen, or even worse, gets upset when we don’t play the way you want to (see the knight attack in lion’s arch thing, where you got upset when we figured out a way around your plans, and then made us play the way you wanted to.) That update had 8 patches, still the current leader, tho dragon’s reach part 1 gave it a good challenge.

I think this pretty much sums up all the skeptics on this thread. Yes, we’re thankful that Mike and Chris are now communicating; however, we’re hoping that something more meaningful comes out of all of this than what we’ve seen happen so often in the past.

Chris Whiteside.610

Hi Phabby,

I didn’t get the short straw, I really enjoy working with you all on CDIs but to be fair I was a little burned out after the last set. This said it is my fault that there has been such a long gap in CDIs and no one elses. Glad to see so much excitement about the return of the initiative.

Chris[/quote]

I can see how you could get burnt out dealing with us all and see you would like to address communication in the first CDI, I think that it would be slightly more beneficial to the community to perhaps address a few of the top complaints that are the main focus of all the frustration.
Even if this was something that Mike can address properly while you take on the CDI topic, it may be a greater benefit for both sides to see that the biggest concerns are thought important to you guys as they are to the community.

I would say the top 3 complaints looking at the forums would be

1) Pre Cursor’s- The total lack of drops and no sign of a solution is a huge fustration

2) The SAB thingy- note I have not really played this as I didnt like it, however it has hurt the players that love this part of the game to no end.

3) RNG and Drops- my personal big issue which also ties into no 1 , is the total lack of drops for the effort that is put in. Coming from GW1 I can say this is a major thing missing in game that I wish had of been carried over from the orginal.

Anyways cheers Chris relax and have a Pint or 2

sirflamesword.3896:

havellian.4073:

Respectfully disagree. The BLTC forum from what I’ve seen is just one big, self-congratulatory conversation, where people who have differing views from the majority are shot down with snarky, condescending remarks from the economist, which are then fervently echoed by his cronies. What follows then is comments such as “John for PRESIDENT” and “I love it when he does that!”. Very productive? I think not.

Please do not emulate that style tyvm.

This x1000, I’ve stopped even going to that portion of the forums because I know anything I say(either constructive criticism or agreeing with someone criticism) will be shot down and be attacked with half baked economic ideas, and finally a red post will come in and basically make it seem like anything negative said is a joke. It makes me sad whenever I see a post in because I know it will be some snarky comment that totally demeans the poster, and it makes me realize again that the economy portion of the game will never be any better than it currently is. The forums should NEVER be like that, and I have a feeling the devs actually creating the content in game don’t want it like that either.

You both missed my point and are confusing the issue. My point was that a dev is having active interaction with the community over a significant period of time. Your point is just that you don’t like what the people are saying or how they say it. They are two separate issues completely.

DriV.6203:

dlonie.6547:

I don’t think it was done to scare you. I think it’s because it’s a mesmer-specific complaint, with a heavy bias towards PvP balancing, phrased with a very inflammatory tone in a general discussion post about ArenaNet’s communication with its players. It’s better off elsewhere and frankly has nothing constructive in it.

Just my guess though. ¯\(?)/¯ Edit: wtb utf-8

Unfortunately it is not first time they blow it up like that. Do you remember:
Dhuumfire?
Automated response?
Diamont skin?
Healing signet?
…
Community warned them it will be op (and without counter-play) against certain builds but it was too late as they announce things after they are already implemented…

Those problems would not be in the game if a-net were more open and transparent.

Please answer this Chris. You made a ranger CDI and what we got? All the answers you gave was the same ‘Not in design, you say x but we’ll do y’. Man you pick the most useless point from the cdi (OH THE MIGHTY GREAT POISON MASTER) and added it to the game.
As long as you use CDIs as tools to persuade your changes to people and shelters to say “But we asked for this and you wanted it!!11!”, thanks but no need for CDIs.

floude.5291:

Please answer this Chris. You made a ranger CDI and what we got? All the answers you gave was the same ‘Not in design, you say x but we’ll do y’. Man you pick the most useless point from the cdi (OH THE MIGHTY GREAT POISON MASTER) and added it to the game.
As long as you use CDIs as tools to persuade your changes to people and shelters to say “But we asked for this and you wanted it!!11!”, thanks but no need for CDIs.

You heard it here, folks. No need for CDIs anymore.

floude.5291:

DriV.6203:

dlonie.6547:

I don’t think it was done to scare you. I think it’s because it’s a mesmer-specific complaint, with a heavy bias towards PvP balancing, phrased with a very inflammatory tone in a general discussion post about ArenaNet’s communication with its players. It’s better off elsewhere and frankly has nothing constructive in it.

Just my guess though. ¯\(?)/¯ Edit: wtb utf-8

Unfortunately it is not first time they blow it up like that. Do you remember:
Dhuumfire?
Automated response?
Diamont skin?
Healing signet?
…
Community warned them it will be op (and without counter-play) against certain builds but it was too late as they announce things after they are already implemented…

Those problems would not be in the game if a-net were more open and transparent.

Please answer this Chris. You made a ranger CDI and what we got? All the answers you gave was the same ‘Not in design, you say x but we’ll do y’. Man you pick the most useless point from the cdi (OH THE MIGHTY GREAT POISON MASTER) and added it to the game.
As long as you use CDIs as tools to persuade your changes to people and shelters to say “But we asked for this and you wanted it!!11!”, thanks but no need for CDIs.

I don’t know, I remember people talking about buffing the damage of long bow and that was done. And the signet change is very good, I think.

Not quite sure what you’re on about.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know, I remember people talking about buffing the damage of long bow and that was done. And the signet change is very good, I think.

Not quite sure what you’re on about.

This particular line:

- “Fix pets.” “To do that we’d have to completely redo code and it’s not a quick endeavor, can we come up with anything else?”

- “Can’t fix? Fine. Get rid of pets.” “We don’t really want to do that. We really wanted rangers to have pets, and that’s how we ran the design.”

- “Well let us perma-stow them.” “We don’t want to do that, as then it’s not giving you any benefit to being out.”

- “Give us a buff then when permastow’d.” “Then, why would rangers run with pets at all?”

- “You’re getting the idea now!”

That was the biggest slice of stink I recall from that CDI. That, and they didn’t want to basically buff the ranger too much out of fear of “power creep” settling in if they did. “Well now the ranger got buffed, we need to buff X class just to keep up now.”

The ranger CDI was, for the largest part of it, some players trying to dictate to the devs and getting huffy when the devs didn’t seem to be taking it seriously.

Vayne.8563:

floude.5291:

DriV.6203:

dlonie.6547:

I don’t think it was done to scare you. I think it’s because it’s a mesmer-specific complaint, with a heavy bias towards PvP balancing, phrased with a very inflammatory tone in a general discussion post about ArenaNet’s communication with its players. It’s better off elsewhere and frankly has nothing constructive in it.

Just my guess though. ¯\(?)/¯ Edit: wtb utf-8

Unfortunately it is not first time they blow it up like that. Do you remember:
Dhuumfire?
Automated response?
Diamont skin?
Healing signet?
…
Community warned them it will be op (and without counter-play) against certain builds but it was too late as they announce things after they are already implemented…

Those problems would not be in the game if a-net were more open and transparent.

Please answer this Chris. You made a ranger CDI and what we got? All the answers you gave was the same ‘Not in design, you say x but we’ll do y’. Man you pick the most useless point from the cdi (OH THE MIGHTY GREAT POISON MASTER) and added it to the game.
As long as you use CDIs as tools to persuade your changes to people and shelters to say “But we asked for this and you wanted it!!11!”, thanks but no need for CDIs.

I don’t know, I remember people talking about buffing the damage of long bow and that was done. And the signet change is very good, I think.

Not quite sure what you’re on about.

Slight LB buff fixed all the pet issues baked into the class design that was the root of the CDI?

The class still has an embarrassingly badly designed class mechanic that requires near perfect handling just to make the ranger as good as other classes and is nearly useless in large scale fights in both PvP and many PvE encounters with massive aoes.

It’s unprecedented that we got to take 1 step forward without taking 2 steps back or even 1 step back, but the goal line is still far off into the distance.

@Tobias, why bother when they still have the idea of what to do?
@Vayne, these buffes are gonna come with feature patch, please look at the date of ranger CDI. If you think changing these basic things take that much time, ok then.

Also the CDI pet issues really overlooked by devs and they only inreased pets’ reaction times, the mechanic still useless most of the situations.

Substance E.4852:

Slight LB buff fixed all the pet issues baked into the class design that was the root of the CDI?

That’s not the only thing which came up, and it’s not the root of the problem with ranger.

The class still has an embarrassingly badly designed class mechanic that requires near perfect handling just to make the ranger as good as other classes and is nearly useless in large scale fights in both PvP and many PvE encounters with massive aoes.

I dunno, I’ve had it be . . . not a burden in large-scale fights. I know of at least four instances where “Search and Rescue” was darn near stapled to my hotbar due to how useful it could be. (I wound up doing so for the Dredge fractal boss a couple times, actually.)

Regardless. It’s not just the pet mechanic that’s an issue, it’s an aggregate of a lot of other things which turn into a pile of “nope”.

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for the presence and communication on this thread.

floude.5291:

@Tobias, why bother when they still have the idea of what to do?
@Vayne, these buffes are gonna come with feature patch, please look at the date of ranger CDI. If you think changing these basic things take that much time, ok then.

Also the CDI pet issues really overlooked by devs and they only inreased pets’ reaction times, the mechanic still useless most of the situations.

Floude . . . I don’t see the point in debating this, least of all in this topic. You’re convinced of your conclusion, and I daresay this is one reason . . . and the only reason I wish the CDIs had never been implemented at all.

Because, inevitably, there’s going to be someone who feels their voice wasn’t heard and thus the whole process is invalid because of it.

I almost wish ANet didn’t bother communicating at all except through patch notes and the occasional “that’s working as intended” “we’re looking into fixing that” “that’s part of an upcoming feature we’re looking into”. It worked for Verant/SOE and their game is still running.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know, I remember people talking about buffing the damage of long bow and that was done. And the signet change is very good, I think.

Not quite sure what you’re on about.

This particular line:

- “Fix pets.” “To do that we’d have to completely redo code and it’s not a quick endeavor, can we come up with anything else?”

- “Can’t fix? Fine. Get rid of pets.” “We don’t really want to do that. We really wanted rangers to have pets, and that’s how we ran the design.”

- “Well let us perma-stow them.” “We don’t want to do that, as then it’s not giving you any benefit to being out.”

- “Give us a buff then when permastow’d.” “Then, why would rangers run with pets at all?”

- “You’re getting the idea now!”

That was the biggest slice of stink I recall from that CDI. That, and they didn’t want to basically buff the ranger too much out of fear of “power creep” settling in if they did. “Well now the ranger got buffed, we need to buff X class just to keep up now.”

The ranger CDI was, for the largest part of it, some players trying to dictate to the devs and getting huffy when the devs didn’t seem to be taking it seriously.

Well then, I’m glad it fell in heap.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Substance E.4852:

Slight LB buff fixed all the pet issues baked into the class design that was the root of the CDI?

That’s not the only thing which came up, and it’s not the root of the problem with ranger.

The class still has an embarrassingly badly designed class mechanic that requires near perfect handling just to make the ranger as good as other classes and is nearly useless in large scale fights in both PvP and many PvE encounters with massive aoes.

I dunno, I’ve had it be . . . not a burden in large-scale fights. I know of at least four instances where “Search and Rescue” was darn near stapled to my hotbar due to how useful it could be. (I wound up doing so for the Dredge fractal boss a couple times, actually.)

Regardless. It’s not just the pet mechanic that’s an issue, it’s an aggregate of a lot of other things which turn into a pile of “nope”.

I can’t speak from much pve content to be honest. I don’t do fractals or much dungeon stuff, but in zerg vs zerg the pet evaporates like a puddle on the moon.

Substance E.4852:

I can’t speak from much pve content to be honest. I don’t do fractals or much dungeon stuff, but in zerg vs zerg the pet evaporates like a puddle on the moon.

I don’t really do Fractals or dungeons except with guildmates, really. And you’re right about the pet tending to die rather quickly in Zerg vs Zerg.

It’s worth noting almost any single target can evaporate quicker than a pet if they happen to be taking the hits. Furthermore, in a Zerg vs Zerg there’s less of a focus on one particular character being good/effective and more about “the group”. So long as you can tag or drop some sort of pressure? Doesn’t matter.

Rangers can be turned into a good piece of a Zerg which relies on blast finishers to build stacks or keep healing going through water fields. They get access to both water fields and blast finishers fairly easily.

But that’s just in theory. In reality? I hardly notice. I’m too busy dodging, trying to drop Poison Volleys or Muddy Terrain, and in general not dying to offer up a conclusive investigation. All I have is anecdotal evidence – I have never really found myself terribly off unless I was unlucky enough to be focused on, and choosing a pet which can at least F2 a boon is more useful than sending in the bear/kittykat.

@Chris, a couple of pointers from a more general view, perhaps parse this with the people involved as needed…

1. Personally I do not fully understand why ‘you’ (as in Anet) continue to expand the location with which you have to deal with. In this sense I mostly mean Reddit, but there are numerous other outlets as well, personally I just gave up on them and focus on THIS site, as this is the official GW2 forum from Anet…

Seeing I been with GW for a while now, I also thought this particular forum was to solve the same problem that ‘we’ had before. There were so many fan sites that it was dang hard to address each and every one, and give appropriate attention to them (leaving out my personal opinion on this choice), but as this forum saw light, we have seen ANet further diversify it’s outlets, in doing so creating even more locations to divert attention too.

Long story short, don’t spread yourself to thin, or you set yourself up for failure…

2. As far as recent ‘future questions’ from the community goes. From my perspective the problem isn’t just communication (the longing for communication is actually a side effect)… to what?

Well, MMO’s through history have had a certain amount of ‘rice and beans’ added to them on a somewhat regular basis. The ‘staple food’ for any MMO player… What (I think) a lot of the player base worry about, is that they do not (or hardly) see any of these ‘staples’ provided in the 2y that GW2 has been around… Leading to questions as to ‘wth’ you are actually doing…

Now as I responded to this concern in a thread it dawned on me that Anet has done a lot in the past 2y, yet, a lot of these things were either of ‘hordeuvre’ level (temporary content), or more general Quality of Life (mega servers, wardrobe) kind of upgrades. Non of them provide ‘a substantial meal’, and they do not resemble the ‘kind of food’ the MMORPG community is used to being fed… (mainly being: new skills to play with, new professions, new races, new areas to farm, new stories to play at leisure, etc).

Now sure hordeuvres can be mighty nice and be like a cherry on the cake, but how ever nice ‘cherries with whip cream’ are, people still feel that progress is missing because, well, in essence ‘there is no cake!’. I hope you get the analogies I used in this bit above here, and through that I hope you understand why people are getting a bit agitated and question progress in GW2.

3. While I do not want to get ahead on a CDI, also because personally I do not think that communication is the problem, it feels more like the ‘speaking through actions’ is what has most people up in arms (but I digress and have just put all that in 2).

Seeing that a CDI is a mutual effort I think picking topic mutually would benefit us enormously. Make a list of say 10 things Anet would like to talk about, and have us vote. Use the line up of say the first 3 to cover the next 3 CDI’s and repeat with new stuff. Or have us give options, you pick 10, we vote, and first 3 be first 3 CDIs, then do get a new set of 10.

I want to thank you, dear Devs, for trying to actually communicate with the community. It’s a nice change.

Since we’re at it, I’d also like to bring up certain issue in certain class subforum which didn’t get a response from a dev in more than a year (1+ YEAR)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Hobo-Sacks-A-Terrible-Fashion-Statement/page/1

Being a software engineer myself, I can understand that there is a lot of other issues / projects that have higher priority… but nonetheless, I still fail to understand that not a single one of your employees managed to find 30-50 minutes in the past year to fix this issue.

Lots of people see endgame in GW2 as pretty much tweaking the appearance, making their character army look smooth, special, and pretty. With my engie, I went for steampunk looks; with Gas Mask, Magitech armor, The Predator, Static Tempered Spinal Blades and Medium Fused Gauntlets. And it all looks awesome until I enter combat when kits glitch out with visuals. Now, as an example, imagine other game that cares about collecting visuals having such problems…i.e. Hats in TF2 glitching in a very weird ways through characters models…. it wouldn’t be a pretty sight, would it?
Because of these issues, I even decided not to invest any time into making any new LS back items after tempered blades, it just isn’t worth the time.

I know engie is the least played class, but it doesn’t mean their subforum needs to be totally ignored, it deserves some attention, the class is very fun to play, I have all classes on max level, and I still love my engie the most, the class has bigger potential than the current “meta” classes, I think it’s the most creative class and kudos to devs that designed it,…but please continue to maintain it, don’t let it rot just because majority of players went for easy mode play exp on warriors/guardians. Thanks.

Hi Chris!

I have been wondering for a while, since you said that many of you like to converse with us and share feedback and such, why doesn’t any of the devs or maybe staff at Anet talk with us in their free time, at home or on break, i know you all have other things to focus on but is it a policy type thing or do you just not like coming on to talk with us even if it doesn’t have to relate to what they do in their job such as; commenting in a thread about your favourite dungeon or event, versus threads asking about content being worked on.

I guess employees have to treat their own forums like their own job but seeing them converse on average player topics like another fake example; ‘need help on ele build!’

I believe (although probably wrong) that if you talked more often then every word you say wouldn’t be taken like a final confirmation or solid answer, but more like “hey that’s cool news i hope it gets implemented” or “great idea Anet!”.
Because right now anything that gets said or announced we think its definite and “omg x is being worked on!!!” although that has slipped since lack of faith.

Thank you in advance if you reply!

Just wanted to let the reds know that I acknowledge their indifference regarding the aspects of the game I enjoy – confirmed, that I’m never going to agree with the things you’re doing… and I accepted it. I fully respect your lack of interest, your focus on other parts of gw2 and I’ll just sit out and wait ‘til I find someone that’s interested in meeting my needs. I got a lot of hours out of the 70 euros or so that I spent, and for this I’m extremely thankful.
No amount of communication will fix this, no CDI thread will win trust back.
The trashcan subforum sends its regards.

I’m completely in favour of a communication-based CDI. Just to throw something out early: you guys have a website – use it. I know social media and fansites are very useful tools, but why should I have to trawl through Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, Dulfy, etc for things that should be here in plain view for all to see?

Links to or transcripts of important things posted elsewhere would be nice. Not hidden away in some subforum – an obvious stickied thread, or better yet, on the website’s front page. And I know the wiki is made up of player contributions… but how about some love in the form of new skins, etc being there for us to see when they are released; as opposed to having to go to the wardrobe in game or visit Dulfy? Anet makes Guild Wars 2, not social media and certain fansites that get special treatment.

I guess we can ALL agree that the very next CDI must be about improving communication between ArenaNet and the players, right? I sincerely believe you do not overlook many threads, but every 2 weeks or so a minor pass-through answering some players’ concerns would be… cool… to say the least.

I personally loved how we interacted with Joshua Foreman (where are you, man?), and talking about him, how about a SAB CDI? #waveshands