Guild Wars 2

Just want to say I am on the verge of quitting the game, because it is so broken with dps and bugs. I understand that you want to get HoT out, but you should have made these changes a year ago. Its naive to think you can make so many large changes this close to an xpack release and it go smooth.

Right now dps is sky high, even with a full healing build trying to keep team mates up, its useless. Engi shares 1k to group big deal the entire group is getting hit for 4k per tick burning and thats just one condi.

Its time to fix things, or start losing customers, just letting you know how I feel about the game. I’m not freaking out because the game is not my life, but I would think you would want to hear from customers, so here it is.

This game is supported by casuals imo and when you break it this bad you only have a short time before people walk. Casuals dont hang around forever like hard cores, thats why they are called casuals.

Good luck I hate to see this game die off, but right now, its just not fun.

I’m actually confused at your complaint. I clicked this thread expecting it to be a complaint about how everything is so faceroll easy due to high damage, but after reading it it sounds like you’re complaining about not being able to outheal burning damage? Did I understand you or no?

guildwarstwentytwelve.5693:

Just want to say I am on the verge of quitting the game, because it is so broken with dps and bugs. I understand that you want to get HoT out, but you should have made these changes a year ago. Its naive to think you can make so many large changes this close to an xpack release and it go smooth.

Right now dps is sky high, even with a full healing build trying to keep team mates up, its useless. Engi shares 1k to group big deal the entire group is getting hit for 4k per tick burning and thats just one condi.

Its time to fix things, or start losing customers, just letting you know how I feel about the game. I’m not freaking out because the game is not my life, but I would think you would want to hear from customers, so here it is.

This game is supported by casuals imo and when you break it this bad you only have a short time before people walk. Casuals dont hang around forever like hard cores, thats why they are called casuals.

Good luck I hate to see this game die off, but right now, its just not fun.

You misunderstand the game completely. The game is based on avoidance. You actively defend yourself in an attempt to completely nullify damage. Any and all healing is meant to help you mitigate mistakes, not make them disappear.

I understand your confusion though. It’s contrary to basically any other MMO. As a long time Tank/Healer it was a bit of a change coming here. It took a lot of getting used to. But shed from your mind the constraints of other games. Learn to embrace GW2 combat for what it is. Or, not, but you’re not ringing the death chimes of the game, but simply missing out on a combat system that’s pretty amazing and innovative.

As for your claim that casuals support the game, I completely disagree. It’s the people who spend money that support the game. Be they people who aren’t very devoted to supplement their lack of play time with gem->gold purchases or just people who are more open to throwing their cash at the screen for whatever purpose. Those are the people who support the game, not people who are unwilling to embrace the game for what it is. Someone who supports the game is someone who’s spent 100(s) of dollars on the gemstore. To me the second you fall into that category you’re hardcore, whether you play a lot or a little you’re willing to invest yourself into the game and that makes you hardcore regardless.

I’m not tired of it. I think it’s fun.

This type of complaint occurrs on many MMOs.
Im quitting the game because of < Insert here whatever your complaint is > and Im sorry to go , and Im sorry to see the game die .
The inference is that the game will die because this one person is quitting.
I used to play WOW (unfortunately) for many years, and it was fun to count the number of " Im quitting the game "posts that occurred on the forums.
Even funnier, was the number of people (the same people) continually posting that they were quitting the game , and were still quitting the game 6 months on.
There seems to be some kind of beleif that Im quitting the game posts, will somehow force the game developers to alter the game design to suit the wishes of the poster.

If you dont like the game , then just leave.
Theres no need to tell everyone why.

guildwarstwentytwelve.5693:

Just want to say I am on the verge of quitting the game, because it is so broken with dps and bugs. I understand that you want to get HoT out, but you should have made these changes a year ago. Its naive to think you can make so many large changes this close to an xpack release and it go smooth.

Right now dps is sky high, even with a full healing build trying to keep team mates up, its useless. Engi shares 1k to group big deal the entire group is getting hit for 4k per tick burning and thats just one condi.

Its time to fix things, or start losing customers, just letting you know how I feel about the game. I’m not freaking out because the game is not my life, but I would think you would want to hear from customers, so here it is.

This game is supported by casuals imo and when you break it this bad you only have a short time before people walk. Casuals dont hang around forever like hard cores, thats why they are called casuals.

Good luck I hate to see this game die off, but right now, its just not fun.

Not really defending what is happening in the game right now, but they already have your money. By quitting, they don’t lose a customer. The game is supported by everyone’s initial purchase. Yes the gem store supports it financially after that, but going off your argument, I don’t think the casual player spends money on the game every week.

That being said, it will get fixed. Its probably not something that can be fixed quickly which explains why Symbolic Avenger was just flat out disabled today.

If you quit, can I have your stuff?

I’ve quit and comeback 3 times now.

Even though it’s going through a content drought.

Even though it’s going through a terrible re-balancing phase.

Even though its PvE is easy-mode on steroids.

There really isn’t any other MMORPG that can compete with GW2.

QQ now.

Take a break.

You’ll be back.

They made sweeping changes to conditions and traits a week and a day ago. There are obviously some bugs. They’ll get to it.

Also, whether they did this a year ago or last week is irrelevant. The bugs might still have cropped up back then. Heck, there might have been more of them or they might have been worse. It would have taken them as long as it took to squash them — just as it is now. Being closer to HoT is not relevant.

If it really bothers you, take a week or so off. They’ll get to it. Surely there must be something else you can do with your time?

It was bad two years ago, it seems like not much has changed..

Hey there,

First things first, please speak for yourself, not for everyone.

Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think they are well aware of what’s going on and are doing their best to fix it as soon as possible. It’s only been a week and there were a ton of changes. Fixing the source of the problem may be more complicated than one might think.

At least these changes cane out ahead of the expansion so they can work the kinks out. But if it is really frustrating anyone that much, maybe taking a break for a few days, or avoiding play modes where it is a problem might be advisable.

DPS is broken. They know about it. They’ll fix it. I’ve been though stuff like this in every MMO I’ve ever played.

Dante.1508:

It was bad two years ago, it seems like not much has changed..

Plenty has changed. I thought you quit.

Im still having a hard time as thief in pve, i tried getting some vital stat increase with armor and getting survivalbility in my traits, but my damage seemed reallly low, so i tired going glasscannon again, and not only do i watch other people outdo my backstabs, but of course i started dying easily again. This is for pve only pvp is ok becuase of amulets.
Is there something crucial im missing, and what is the average damage for a glasscannon these days, or am i just a perfectionist.

The combat has been broken since release. They are trying to fix some of it now, be it 3 years too late. I like some of the improvements they’ve made, but like I’ve always said: It is not a problem that can easily be fixed. The combat is broken from the very core. From the core mechanics being completely skewed (DPS/conditions/control) to class balance, to the dodge mechanic being unevenly distributed across the classes, to the trait system lacking depth, to the defiant problem, to the targeting and camera system, and of course the AI.

I’ll give the devs the benefit of the doubt, and assume they are aware of all these problems. But it will take a lot of time to fix. This is probably a problem they should have tackled before even releasing the game, but I’m glad that they are at least trying to fix some of it. Don’t expect all of this to be cleared up in one big patch. It will happen slowly, with some stumbling along the way.

I really need your arguments about:
- What are the problems with DPS/condis/control.
- Why you think there’s a problem with the dodge mechanic being at all professions.
- What do you understand depth in the trait system.
- What problems do you have with the camera and targeting.
- What is lacking in the AI.

All I see is you didn’t understand what this game is about, you expected it to be like a lot of classic mmo and here you’re wrong.

Are you talking about pvp or pve here?

maddoctor.2738:

Are you talking about pvp or pve here?

Both. The combat system as a whole.

Ansau.7326:

I really need your arguments about:
- What are the problems with DPS/condis/control.

DPS dominates the game, while conditions and control are less important. Condition damage for example, is still not on par with DPS damage. And control skills are rendered void by defiant. Then there are also problems with things like fear, which makes enemies run away, which in PVE is usually something you don’t want. Only now has the condition cap been fixed, and are they improving the effects of conditions over all. They are also finally adding the break-bar, but I think that’s only half a fix. These fixes are welcome, but 3 years too late.

Ansau.7326:

- Why you think there’s a problem with the dodge mechanic being at all professions.

Not all professions have an equal amount of access to dodge. Some classes have endurance regen, others have invulnerability, and some have all of the above. Invulnerability is basically a free dodge, so the distribution of the dodge ability is completely out of whack. The core idea is fine: Every class gets two dodges. And yet they don’t. They broke their own design rule.

Ansau.7326:

- What do you understand depth in the trait system.

The game lacks build diversity. There is not enough in the trait system to make really unique and interesting builds. Not in the way you see in other MMO’s, or like in GW1. I blame the removal of the dual profession-system for this. I don’t feel like my necromancer is all that different from any other necromancer. Sure, I can max out my DPS, or my conditions, or specialize in minions. But I don’t really feel like there’s a lot of opportunity for interesting build mechanics. You won’t see any 55 monks in GW2, just to give an example.

Specializations finally add a bit more diversity, which was badly needed. A clear sign that the devs recognize this problem too. I’m not sure if it is enough though. Recent fixes for trait synergy for all classes are also a great and much needed improvement. If you want to do clever trait combinations, it sure helps if the traits do what you expect them to do when you combine them with other traits.

Ansau.7326:

- What problems do you have with the camera and targeting.

I don’t think this needs any explanation. EVERYONE knows how broken the camera and targeting are. Fortunately they have now finally started fixing the camera (it’s in beta). But again, 3 years too late. Just search the forum for all the countless threads of people accidentally targeting moa’s while fighting the Claw of Jormag.

Ansau.7326:

- What is lacking in the AI.

It is completely utterly broken. Minions stand around doing nothing, and often run away from enemies when they should be attacking. PVE enemies get absolutely obliterated by stacking, because they have no AI to deal with even the most basic of cheese-strategies.

AI in the game is such a big problem, that a lot of necromancers have completely written off the Minion Master as a viable build, simply due to the unreliable AI of minions.

It also translates to boring combat. This is why so many fights in PVE turn into a case of 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. Enemies don’t respond to what happens in combat, and there is zero aggro management at work too. Maybe the new taunt system will finally address this issue.

Ansau.7326:

All I see is you didn’t understand what this game is about, you expected it to be like a lot of classic mmo and here you’re wrong.

If you have to ask me what’s wrong with the targeting, camera, or ai, then I think you don’t know what this game is about. All the others are valid questions. But targeting, camera and ai are things that everyone who plays the game is aware of.

• To the OP

Take it with calm, theres a lot of problems right now, they are aware, alredy stated it, the changes will come, better take a rest of the game for a week or a litle more and then check the status.

• To Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

About the dodge:

Not all proffessions have the same mechanics, also take in account that also can be considered for type of build and weapon.

For example a ranger with a one hand sword has a lot of evade and mobility, in exchange a longbow ranger has better range capacities by far.

The same way guardians have a bigger ammount of blocks and heals, eles have better condition and healing capabilities, war has the best face tanking passive capability and the best flat floor mobility in game + best passive regenaration, thieves have the best all terrain mobility and a great income of stealth and stealth builds, etc.

They all compensate, creating different play styes, but at the same type they give us a dodge, theres not problem with that imo.

If we eliminated this diversity, the types of gameplay will go lower; and if we eliminated the dodge system, we will go down to a much more passive game.

About the games bigger combat related problems, in my opinione they are:

The combat system biggers problem in pvp :

- Slow reaction time of anet to ensure and create balance.

- We still need more build diversity (upcoming specializations will help, plus the new trait system have make more viable builds, making the effective builds diversity bigger).

- Lack of different games mods that create different strategies and more types of builds gameplay (they are trying to fix it in HoT, conquest as presented until now doesnt seems to be a good solution).

- Some condition and suport problems (they have been trying to fix this in different opportunities, the latest trying to change poison and burning not stacking).

- Targetting problems.

In pve:

- Huge damage only orientation (they are trying to fix it in Hot, but we dont know at what extent).

- Extremly defficent AI (they are trying to fix it in Hot).

- Glitching and stack are vey easy to create, dumbing the game (hope the AI help a litle in stacking- check the AI conference video).

Conclusion (pve): The lack of difficulty make the pve gameplay dont use the system at the fullest, not even a tiny bit. This difficulty level also affect build diversity.

At least they are trying to fix this problems with the expansion.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

DPS dominates the game, while conditions and control are less important. Condition damage for example, is still not on par with DPS damage. And control skills are rendered void by defiant. Then there are also problems with things like fear, which makes enemies run away, which in PVE is usually something you don’t want. Only now has the condition cap been fixed, and are they improving the effects of conditions over all. They are also finally adding the break-bar, but I think that’s only half a fix. These fixes are welcome, but 3 years too late.

You’re wrong here.
- Conditions are now in par with power damage, since the limit cap is gone and vulnerability also affects condis. There are builds able to do 2k/s with burning, 2k/s with bleeding, 1.5k/s with poison and 1k/s with torment or confusion. That’s about 6-7k/s plus the small direct damage.
You can see here how was the DPS of previous power builds: http://gw2dps.david-reess.de Highest had 10k/s with might and vul. A good condi build can do that.
Also you need to realise that condis bypass armor, so power damage needs to be a bit better.
- Defiant is there because without it pve would be dull and extremely easy. Just bring 1 interrupt class and the mobs wouldn’t do any attack. I also think that it could be improved to a more dynamic way, but blaming all the combat just because of defiant is a bit unfair.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Not all professions have an equal amount of access to dodge. Some classes have endurance regen, others have invulnerability, and some have all of the above. Invulnerability is basically a free dodge, so the distribution of the dodge ability is completely out of whack. The core idea is fine: Every class gets two dodges. And yet they don’t. They broke their own design rule.

You need to see this with the whole perspective, not just dodges/invul. Yes, some classes have better acces to dodge/invul, but others have other ways to survive, like better healing, better condi cleansing, higher base stats…
You could only blame if all classes where warriors, with necros transformations, but only one or two professions got access to mesmer skills. But since it’s not the case, your complaints have no solid arguments.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The game lacks build diversity. There is not enough in the trait system to make really unique and interesting builds. Not in the way you see in other MMO’s, or like in GW1. I blame the removal of the dual profession-system for this. I don’t feel like my necromancer is all that different from any other necromancer. Sure, I can max out my DPS, or my conditions, or specialize in minions. But I don’t really feel like there’s a lot of opportunity for interesting build mechanics. You won’t see any 55 monks in GW2, just to give an example.

Specializations finally add a bit more diversity, which was badly needed. A clear sign that the devs recognize this problem too. I’m not sure if it is enough though. Recent fixes for trait synergy for all classes are also a great and much needed improvement. If you want to do clever trait combinations, it sure helps if the traits do what you expect them to do when you combine them with other traits.

Devs clarified before the game release that they’d simplify the trait system, because the GW1 idea wasn’t viable, with thousands of skills and tons of builds that made the system uncontrollable and the biggest challenge in that game.
Gw2 is not about what you do or what build you take, but more how you play and how. The same build can be played in several ways, because this is more an action combat game, so the way you play is the most important thing.

You can look 2 people playing the same build in gw1 and they will have the same skills and doing the same combos. You look 2 people playing the same build in gw2 and utilities can vary, people can prefer using some combos or others, an example is shatter build, there’re tons of ways to combo shatters with other skills and they’re all effective.
Here is were you find the deepness of the game. Not in what you do, but how you do it.

The only problem the game has had with traits is that some of them were so game changing that the professions felt limited without them, so the build diversity was crippled. But that doesn’t mean the rest of traits had good ideas.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t think this needs any explanation. EVERYONE knows how broken the camera and targeting are. Fortunately they have now finally started fixing the camera (it’s in beta). But again, 3 years too late. Just search the forum for all the countless threads of people accidentally targeting moa’s while fighting the Claw of Jormag.

I never had problems with camera in this game. You’re overexaggerating, because the internet is not so full of camera issues threads. In fact, I put camera moa Jormag in the google and there’s no thread about complains… And with the latest improvements, there’re are less motives to complain.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It is completely utterly broken. Minions stand around doing nothing, and often run away from enemies when they should be attacking. PVE enemies get absolutely obliterated by stacking, because they have no AI to deal with even the most basic of cheese-strategies.

First, stacking is due to no body-blocking, a feature of the game. If you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s broken.
Mobs running is another feature to make them less dull. It is reasonable that when someone is near the death, they panic.
Then HoT will bring a revolutionary AI system.
Also what an overexaggeration by calling AI completely utterly broken and you just bring two minor things. I have in mind some other problems that were much bigger than mobs panicking. But I think that horrible biased opinion of the game makes small things completely and utterly broken.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

If you have to ask me what’s wrong with the targeting, camera, or ai, then I think you don’t know what this game is about. All the others are valid questions. But targeting, camera and ai are things that everyone who plays the game is aware of.

I’ve read, listen and talk with tons and tons of people complaining about the game, and you’re the first that thinks the most annoying of this game are the camera, AI and things that NO ONE is aware of.

All you’ve said just prove how little you have understood about how this game is. All your complains are very biased, because reasonably they are small things here and there and only pve related (when there’re also wvw and pvp which seems you don’t have ever tried). The game has much bigger problems, worth of complaining, you don’t even mention.
You come here blaming the game is completely broken and it will die fast, when it’s nearly 3 years, still one of the most played mmo out there, one of the best rated every years and no other mmo that was launched before GW2 has had the impact of this one.

Dante.1508:

It was bad two years ago, it seems like not much has changed..

1st Report of the same problems: 2 years ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/8-000-Hits

You are correct!!

All this arguing could be avoided if you would see that dungeon-runners and pvpers have been using damage-control-support since the beginning. It’s not the combat system’s fault that 99% of the population seems to be standing on some safe spot at open world events, pressing 1 and waiting for the loot box.

Ansau.7326:

I never had problems with camera in this game. You’re overexaggerating, because the internet is not so full of camera issues threads. In fact, I put camera moa Jormag in the google and there’s no thread about complains… And with the latest improvements, there’re are less motives to complain.

Little do you know:

So yeah, the camera is a well known problem in the game for as long as anyone can remember. There have been countless threads about it, and eventually people just kind of gave up. It’s not even under discussion. EVERYONE knows how bad the camera is in GW2.

You call the latest changes to the camera “improvements”. I call them bare essentials for a moderately enjoyable game experience. Because really, the original camera system needed an exorcism badly.

Ansau.7326:

First, stacking is due to no body-blocking, a feature of the game. If you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s broken.

No that’s not the only reason. It’s due to many other things as well:

-Poor AI
-The game’s bias towards short range buffs, thus encouraging stacking for maximum damage and support.
-The set up of encounters, and lazy dungeon design

Ansau.7326:

Mobs running is another feature to make them less dull. It is reasonable that when someone is near the death, they panic.

You do not understand game mechanics. That is fine.

Ansau.7326:

Also what an overexaggeration by calling AI completely utterly broken

You haven’t played a minion master I see.

Ansau.7326:

and you’re the first that thinks the most annoying of this game are the camera, AI and things that NO ONE is aware of.

I dare you to ask anyone on this forum what they think of the targeting, camera and ai. In fact, search the forum for threads about these problems to get a clear picture of the scale of these issues. I wouldn’t bring it up unless everyone and their mother was fed up with these problems.

Ansau.7326:

All you’ve said just prove how little you have understood about how this game is.

So far this is the only actual argument you have used.

Ansau.7326:

All your complains are very biased, because reasonably they are small things here and there and only pve related (when there’re also wvw and pvp which seems you don’t have ever tried).

I’m more of a PVE player, but some of these issues also extend to WvW for sure. The massive zerks in WvW is another example of emergent game play from a poor combat system.

Ansau.7326:

The game has much bigger problems, worth of complaining, you don’t even mention.

Such as?

Ansau.7326:

You come here blaming the game is completely broken and it will die fast,

You just made this up. I only criticized the combat system, and said nothing about the future of the game.

You do reliase that anet will be making adjustments as they gather data from player usage?

They don’t have the means of an extreme test that all the players of the game can put out together, maybe a small testing team but it takes letting some things go live and adjusting to get a proper picture.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ansau.7326:

I never had problems with camera in this game. You’re overexaggerating, because the internet is not so full of camera issues threads. In fact, I put camera moa Jormag in the google and there’s no thread about complains… And with the latest improvements, there’re are less motives to complain.

Little do you know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PegX3QH-gy0

So yeah, the camera is a well known problem in the game for as long as anyone can remember. There have been countless threads about it, and eventually people just kind of gave up.

You call the latest changes to the camera “improvements”. I call them bare essentials for a moderately enjoyable game experience. Because really, the original camera system needed an exorcism badly.

Let’s be honest, you could play the game with the old camera system, it was not like you ended up cursing at it every day. So yes, you are exaggerating badly.

The problems all stem from the complete lack of a test server. Maybe they could cut the prize on one of their spvp ‘e-sports’ or take some money from the marketing budget there and hire a few thousand servers to test this stuff on.

There is no shortage of experienced beta testers out there who will do their utmost to find all the faults BEFORE you release garbage and then have to hit the panic button. Any sort of actual live testing could have pointed out almost all the problems people are now highlighting.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

maddoctor.2738:

Are you talking about pvp or pve here?

Both. The combat system as a whole.

It was a question for the OP because of:

Right now dps is sky high

Mob DPS wasn’t buffed, so I assume the OP’s post is about PVP and not PVE.

I doubt there are any mobs that deal

4k per tick burning and thats just one condi.

or that apply loads of conditions so quickly that is a real problem. Conditions are a problem from players but not so much from mobs.

As such I agree with the DPS problem in PVP but there was hardly any change in mob design with the recent patch that could cause any problems

Ansau.7326:

You’re wrong here.
- Conditions are now in par with power damage, since the limit cap is gone and vulnerability also affects condis. There are builds able to do 2k/s with burning, 2k/s with bleeding, 1.5k/s with poison and 1k/s with torment or confusion. That’s about 6-7k/s plus the small direct damage.

And yet this doesn’t hold true for all professions. And you also have to account for the ramp up time for conditions to reach their maximum damage potential. I’ll agree that the recent improvements are a huge leap forward (as I did in my original post), but we’re not there yet.

Ansau.7326:

- Defiant is there because without it pve would be dull and extremely easy. Just bring 1 interrupt class and the mobs wouldn’t do any attack. I also think that it could be improved to a more dynamic way, but blaming all the combat just because of defiant is a bit unfair.

I didn’t blame all the combat problems on Defiant, but it sure is part of the long list of problems, and it should be mentioned. I know why Defiant was added, but it was a lazy solution, that ultimately made control skills feel terribly redundant in PVE.

The break-bar mechanic solves part of the problem with control skills, but not all of the problems. For example, the break-bar still negates the inherent functionality of a control skill, thus making every control skill essentially the same as far as their actual effect. And that is a shame.

Ansau.7326:

You need to see this with the whole perspective, not just dodges/invul. Yes, some classes have better acces to dodge/invul, but others have other ways to survive, like better healing, better condi cleansing, higher base stats…

And that is not how it works. I can forgive you for not understanding complex game mechanics, and I’ll try and explain why this is such a big problem.

Lets start back in GW1. Invulnerability has always been a big balance problem. When ever an invulnerability skill was introduced, balance problems would quickly raise their ugly heads. Take for example Shadow Form, or Obsidian Flesh. This problem has now escalated to GW2, where they once again introduce invulnerability-type skills.

The main problem here is that at its core, all classes should be essentially the same. They can have their own unique traits and gimmicks, but for balance sake, everyone needs to be able to dodge the same amount of times to have some semblance of balance. This is the heart of any hazard in GW2. You dodge or you die. Dodging is the core defensive mechanic in GW2. It is more important than anything else. How often you can dodge is essential. The fact that some classes can dodge more than others, is a problem that is not balanced out by better healing, better condi cleansing, or higher base stats. It’s all about the dodge.

And that’s not a bad concept, but you have to hold true to it. Anet kind of broke their own design rule.

Ansau.7326:

Devs clarified before the game release that they’d simplify the trait system, because the GW1 idea wasn’t viable, with thousands of skills and tons of builds that made the system uncontrollable and the biggest challenge in that game.

I know why they did it. But now I feel something is lacking. And I know I can’t be alone in this.

Ansau.7326:

Gw2 is not about what you do or what build you take, but more how you play and how. The same build can be played in several ways, because this is more an action combat game, so the way you play is the most important thing.

And yet builds should matter. There is no reason why the two can’t go hand in hand. And I think the devs want exactly that which I describe, but without the hassle they had in GW1. I think they are working on it, but they aren’t there yet.

Ansau.7326:

You can look 2 people playing the same build in gw1 and they will have the same skills and doing the same combos.

Not quite. I have faced off against necromancers with near identical builds to my own in GW1, and there was a difference that allowed me to beat them.

Ansau.7326:

The only problem the game has had with traits is that some of them were so game changing that the professions felt limited without them, so the build diversity was crippled. But that doesn’t mean the rest of traits had good ideas.

No, I have said this before, and I’ll say it again: The real problem is that the game has superior and inferior game mechanics. There are classes that are stuck with mostly inferior game mechanics. Guardian clearly has most of the superior game mechanics, which is why we see so many of them. It’s not a mystery, or a trend. There’s a perfectly valid game mechanical reason for why you see so many guardians in the game.

serenke.4806:

Let’s be honest, you could play the game with the old camera system, it was not like you ended up cursing at it every day. So yes, you are exaggerating badly.

Yes you could. It was kind of like playing a game with a camera system from the PS1 era of games, and it made some players nauseous, but you could. It was however pretty bad, I think that is hard to deny.

If I can pick any random PS1 or PS2 game from my shelf right now, and it has a better camera system, then I think we safely say that GW2’s camera is pretty terrible. I’ll even say it is clearly unfinished. Its like a rough beta of a camera system.

(Heck, even the camera systems in one of the games I’ve worked on myself is better than the one in GW2, and THAT camera system was terrible! Granted, that was a rail camera, but it was pretty buggy.)

But like I said, it is but one of many problems with the game’s combat.

maddoctor.2738:

Mob DPS wasn’t buffed, so I assume the OP’s post is about PVP and not PVE.

I doubt there are any mobs that deal

4k per tick burning and thats just one condi.

or that apply loads of conditions so quickly that is a real problem. Conditions are a problem from players but not so much from mobs.

As such I agree with the DPS problem in PVP but there was hardly any change in mob design with the recent patch that could cause any problems

Actually mobs do more damage now compared to pre-patch numbers. I can confirm it as a guardian tank since I’m being beaten up by Archdiviner and Mossman daily and on multiple occasions. Damage was buffed ACROSS THE BOARD.

If you don’t take my words for granted – try lvl 50 Ascalonian fractal. Green team rarely died pre-patch to the last boss (they could only die at the end if dps was really slow). Now they die when boss is barely at 50% and not even in FGS mode. His sword leap never one-shotted ele pre-patch (was about 10k dmg) – now its a 100% one-shot.

List may continue

- Seriously, I laugh at your overexaggeration of camera issues. It only happened with shortest asuras because the camera was sticked to shoulder players. And even with that it didn’t created a lot of problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkjV6mi2VAA

- So now short range is bad because you don’t like it. How clever you are with arguments. You need to understand that your opinion doesn’t make things good or bad, only appealing to you or not. A thing can be good and still you don’t like it.
- You keep telling poor AI, but in which way? And didn’t you read HoT will bring a way better AI?

- Oh, I don’t understand game mechanics… I explain what is happening and that’s your answer.
If you have so much knowledge, amuse me explaining how aggro works in this game, or how is determinated when a transportation skill is able to teleport.

- I’ve played +2300 hours with the mesmer. I can assure you I have plenty of experience with pet AI in this game.
This is the first big problem of the game. Now you start to make sense in such amount of unreasonable complaining.

- To all people reading this thread. How many of you think the camera experience is so bad the game is worthless to play? How many of you have so many problems at targeting that you’re unable to play properly? And how of you think the AI is so bad designed that it’s broken and ruins the game experience?
Let’s see how many people agree with you. Btw, forum is just a tiny representation of the whole community. And the threads about camera issues a such a small part of the whole complaining amount of threads, it barely becomes an issue.
Just because you can find some threads doesn’t mean it’s a big issue that ruins the game, so you’re exaggerating.

- Again, you don’t like massive fights, but it doesn’t mean they are bad. A lot of people enjoy them, I do. Also you don’t know how deep and interesting the massive combat can be. It’s clear you’ve never tried to understand it, just joined a pug zerg, you were melted the first time and your whole opinion is a bad design (which is not).

- Performance optimization, exploits and bugs that broke and brake the experience, issues with HoT pre-release, dynamic events that aren’t what they announced, story line very plane and far from what we had in gw1, unreasonable loot all across game modes, unbalanced builds or skills/items (arrow cart, ice bow), inconsistent work-reward system (very low skilled builds are super effective, while others that need more mastering loose potential)…
None of them were part of your arguments, so it’s clear how much exaggeration is in you.

- I quote: “Good luck I hate to see this game die off”. In that sentence I wasn’t referring about the time, but the feeling you have about the health of the game. Tones of players still play it, and much more are waiting for the new HoT.

Anyway, if you don’t like it, just leave. But leave knowing you haven’t understood how is this game, not because it’s utterly bad and broken.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The main problem here is that at its core, all classes should be essentially the same. They can have their own unique traits and gimmicks, but for balance sake, everyone needs to be able to dodge the same amount of times to have some semblance of balance. This is the heart of any hazard in GW2.

The fact that some classes can dodge more than others, is a problem that is not balanced out by better healing, better condi cleansing, or higher base stats. It’s all about the dodge.

With this you really show how little you have understood about how this game works and is meant to be.
You have the wrong point of view thinking this game should be fixed around what professions do or how much they can do. When is all about how they do it, and the raw performance comparison has never been, and shouldn’t be, a way to balance the things, because this is gw2.
Mesmers, thieves and rangers are more designed to avoid the damage with active defense. Guards, warriors, necros and eles are more designed to tank the damage and recover from it.
You’re completely wrong if you think a guard or necro should have the same access to active defenses like mesmers or thieves.

If you cannot understand the essence of gw2 is about balancing mechanics, traits and skills based on if they can achieve these or that successfully and reasonably, and not how much more or less they performs compared to others, there’s no reason to keep trying to explain you anything.

Just chiming in to add that the camera is probably the worst in any game I have ever played.

Ansau.7326:

- So now short range is bad because you don’t like it.

That is not what I said. You don’t seem to understand the topic at hand here. I was saying that short-range buffs cause a type of emergent game play, where stacking is the most efficient. And that is a problem.

Ansau.7326:

- You keep telling poor AI, but in which way? And didn’t you read HoT will bring a way better AI?

I know better AI has been promised in the near future, and I think everyone highly welcomes it.

Right now however, the ai is very poor. See picture below of how bad minion Ai is.

This also extend to mob behavior. Mobs have no means of dealing with stacking, or aoe damage. They just run at you, and that’s it. Ranged enemies don’t attempt to keep their distance from the player, like they do for example in DDO. And we don’t have any flying enemies. Enemy behavior is just very boring.

Ansau.7326:

If you have so much knowledge, amuse me explaining how aggro works in this game, or how is determinated when a transportation skill is able to teleport.

Please don’t derail the discussion.

If you want to discuss the problem with aggro management, I’m all up for that. But it is an entire topic on its own. Rather than discuss how aggro works, lets discuss how it doesn’t work. Currently players have very little control over aggro. Enemies often go after players with high toughness, rather than players with high DPS. While each enemy can have its own unique aggro parameters, on the whole this seems to be the pattern.

This is a problem, because if you build for high defense, you are punished with more damage. That does not encourage anyone to have high toughness/armor.

Ansau.7326:

How many of you think the camera experience is so bad the game is worthless to play?

Strawman! The last bit of your sentence was tacked on to build a strawman argument.

Ansau.7326:

How many of you have so many problems at targeting that you’re unable to play properly?

I’ll do one better, I’ll provide a picture as evidence of the problem.

Ansau.7326:

Let’s see how many people agree with you. Btw, forum is just a tiny representation of the whole community.

Wow, you covered all options there in one sentence. First you say:

“Lets see how many people agree with you”

and in the next line you say:

“If people do agree with you, they are just a tiny representation of the whole community, so it won’t count anyway”

How reasonable of you.

Ansau.7326:

And the threads about camera issues a such a small part of the whole complaining amount of threads, it barely becomes an issue.

Being able to see what is going on during combat is a rather essential aspect of combat.

Ansau.7326:

Just because you can find some threads doesn’t mean it’s a big issue that ruins the game, so you’re exaggerating.

What if there are hundreds of threads on the topic?

Ansau.7326:

- Again, you don’t like massive fights, but it doesn’t mean they are bad.

I never said I don’t like massive fights.

Ansau.7326:

It’s clear you’ve never tried to understand it, just joined a pug zerg, you were melted the first time and your whole opinion is a bad design

Strawman! Again!

Regarding your list of ‘crucial’ game issues:

- Performance optimization, (not really game breaking)
-exploits and bugs (differ in impact depending on severity)
-issues with HoT pre-release (an argument over the price of HOT)
-dynamic events that aren’t what they announced (what?)
-story line very plane and far from what we had in gw1 (that’s a core problem?)
-unreasonable loot all across game modes (I have not heard that one before)
-unbalanced builds or skills/items (minor issues)
-inconsistent work-reward system (I’d say rewards overall are a problem)

Ansau.7326:

None of them were part of your arguments, so it’s clear how much exaggeration is in you.

Or you simply have a different idea of what are crucial game issues. I’d say the core game play (that would be combat) is the most important part of the entire game.

Ansau.7326:

- I quote: “Good luck I hate to see this game die off”. In that sentence I wasn’t referring about the time, but the feeling you have about the health of the game.

I made no statement about the health of the game at all. You made that up. This thread isn’t that long, anyone can scroll up a bit and see that I’m correct.

Ansau.7326:

Anyway, if you don’t like it, just leave. But leave knowing you haven’t understood how is this game, not because it’s utterly bad and broken.

I never said the game is bad and broken. I said there are fundamental issues with the combat system as a whole.

mtpelion.4562:

Just chiming in to add that the camera is probably the worst in any game I have ever played.

Thanks for chiming in.

Although Ansau has already stated in advance that no amount of confirmation from other players will sway his/her opinion.

To quote: “Btw, forum is just a tiny representation of the whole community.”

So yeah, Ansau has already covered that possibility. Wouldn’t want to admit being wrong when too many people start agreeing that the camera in GW2 is terrible. I don’t really get what the big deal is. It’s not like I’m pooping all over the game by saying it has a terrible camera system. Plus the video clearly show the main issues, which are not just exclusive to Asura. I play a human character myself, and the camera drives me nuts.

Ansau.7326:

You’re completely wrong if you think a guard or necro should have the same access to active defenses like mesmers or thieves.

I don’t think any class should have skills that complete negate damage or give extra dodges. You already have 2 dodges, and all combat should be balanced around that. As long as you stay true to this philosophy, you can never make an encounter too easy or too difficult for certain classes (since all classes have 2 dodges and no more). It also makes fights such as with Liadri balanced, because one class cannot trivialize the fight by having more dodges than other classes.

It could very well be that my design philosophies differ from those of the devs, and I respect that. But they’ve made this mistake before in GW1 in regards to Shadowform and Obsidian Flesh. And I think they are making the same mistake again.

Invulnerability == bad game mechanic, in my opinion.

Ansau.7326:

If you cannot understand the essence of gw2 is about balancing mechanics, traits and skills based on if they can achieve these or that successfully and reasonably, and not how much more or less they performs compared to others, there’s no reason to keep trying to explain you anything.

I don’t think you have such a solid understanding of balancing game mechanics as you seem to think.

So, to provide even more proof that the things I mentioned are indeed big problems, check this old topic on targeting issues:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Targeting-Still-Broken-Please-Fix-It/first

Or this topic on camera issues:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Camera-control-issues-a-documented-list/first

Or these topics on AI:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Necromancer-pets-will-not-always-attack
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Did-Minionmancers-Get-a-Buff/first#post5227634
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Summons-Pet-Controle-Missing
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Minion-AI-Possible-bandaid/first#post5226947
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Nobody-is-talking-about-minions/first#post5185754
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Patch-effects-on-MM
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Are-minion-builds-still-viable
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-Minion-Master-revamp-idea
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Minion-masters-will-be-gods-again/first#post5077104

PVE is meaningless and its about time people got it straight, its a grind to ascended gear and skins. The faster you do it the better.

In Spvp and WvW i have to agree damage is a tad high, having a fairly high armor 2600 armor and 17k hp, thiefs can burst you down in one implementation of stone with no chance to react.

Apolo.5942:

PVE is meaningless and its about time people got it straight, its a grind to ascended gear and skins. The faster you do it the better.

I wouldn’t say “fun” is meaningless. If all that matters is ascended gear and skins, perhaps. But I think many PVE players don’t see it like that. There’s more to PVE than just grind…. although the game has been taking a sharp turn towards grind as of late…

Apolo.5942:

In Spvp and WvW i have to agree damage is a tad high, having a fairly high armor 2600 armor and 17k hp, thiefs can burst you down in one implementation of stone with no chance to react.

Either the damage there is too high, or the effect of armor is too low. I don’t play pvp, but a common complaint I often hear, is that it is all about who bursts first. And that’s a shame.

I agree with OP, I’m done with this game. Every time they fix something, they just end up screwing it up more. Man…who is managing all these updates and ideas, I think it’s time for that person to be replaced.

I love posts where the OP vents angry, and then never responds again.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Apolo.5942:

PVE is meaningless and its about time people got it straight, its a grind to ascended gear and skins. The faster you do it the better.

I wouldn’t say “fun” is meaningless. If all that matters is ascended gear and skins, perhaps. But I think many PVE players don’t see it like that. There’s more to PVE than just grind…. although the game has been taking a sharp turn towards grind as of late…

Late as in 3 minutes after release…

Im tired of PvEer screwing the game. 2 out of 3 game modes are pvp in one way or another, if you want pve go to WoW, you are doing it wrong.

Apolo.5942:

PVE is meaningless and its about time people got it straight, its a grind to ascended gear and skins. The faster you do it the better.

In Spvp and WvW i have to agree damage is a tad high, having a fairly high armor 2600 armor and 17k hp, thiefs can burst you down in one implementation of stone with no chance to react.

I like pve. I think it is pvp and WvW that is meaningless. I also have no interest in getting ascended armor.

Apolo.5942:

Im tired of PvEer screwing the game. 2 out of 3 game modes are pvp in one way or another, if you want pve go to WoW, you are doing it wrong.

Have you been eating angry cookies again?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

maddoctor.2738:

Are you talking about pvp or pve here?

Both. The combat system as a whole.

Ansau.7326:

I really need your arguments about:
- What are the problems with DPS/condis/control.

DPS dominates the game, while conditions and control are less important. Condition damage for example, is still not on par with DPS damage. And control skills are rendered void by defiant. Then there are also problems with things like fear, which makes enemies run away, which in PVE is usually something you don’t want. Only now has the condition cap been fixed, and are they improving the effects of conditions over all. They are also finally adding the break-bar, but I think that’s only half a fix. These fixes are welcome, but 3 years too late.

Ansau.7326:

- Why you think there’s a problem with the dodge mechanic being at all professions.

Not all professions have an equal amount of access to dodge. Some classes have endurance regen, others have invulnerability, and some have all of the above. Invulnerability is basically a free dodge, so the distribution of the dodge ability is completely out of whack. The core idea is fine: Every class gets two dodges. And yet they don’t. They broke their own design rule.

Ansau.7326:

- What do you understand depth in the trait system.

The game lacks build diversity. There is not enough in the trait system to make really unique and interesting builds. Not in the way you see in other MMO’s, or like in GW1. I blame the removal of the dual profession-system for this. I don’t feel like my necromancer is all that different from any other necromancer. Sure, I can max out my DPS, or my conditions, or specialize in minions. But I don’t really feel like there’s a lot of opportunity for interesting build mechanics. You won’t see any 55 monks in GW2, just to give an example.

Specializations finally add a bit more diversity, which was badly needed. A clear sign that the devs recognize this problem too. I’m not sure if it is enough though. Recent fixes for trait synergy for all classes are also a great and much needed improvement. If you want to do clever trait combinations, it sure helps if the traits do what you expect them to do when you combine them with other traits.

Ansau.7326:

- What problems do you have with the camera and targeting.

I don’t think this needs any explanation. EVERYONE knows how broken the camera and targeting are. Fortunately they have now finally started fixing the camera (it’s in beta). But again, 3 years too late. Just search the forum for all the countless threads of people accidentally targeting moa’s while fighting the Claw of Jormag.

Ansau.7326:

- What is lacking in the AI.

It is completely utterly broken. Minions stand around doing nothing, and often run away from enemies when they should be attacking. PVE enemies get absolutely obliterated by stacking, because they have no AI to deal with even the most basic of cheese-strategies.

AI in the game is such a big problem, that a lot of necromancers have completely written off the Minion Master as a viable build, simply due to the unreliable AI of minions.

It also translates to boring combat. This is why so many fights in PVE turn into a case of 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. Enemies don’t respond to what happens in combat, and there is zero aggro management at work too. Maybe the new taunt system will finally address this issue.

Ansau.7326:

All I see is you didn’t understand what this game is about, you expected it to be like a lot of classic mmo and here you’re wrong.

If you have to ask me what’s wrong with the targeting, camera, or ai, then I think you don’t know what this game is about. All the others are valid questions. But targeting, camera and ai are things that everyone who plays the game is aware of.

OMG so much wrong with this post it’s sad.

I still don’t understand what the OP is trying to say? Are they saying there’s too much dps or that they’re dying too much?

The PVE has become even easier than before. I’m not even understanding what the OP is suggesting.

As someone with 3600+hours played I love the changes. Opened up so many builds and gear sets.

@people claiming less build diversity…………LOL. I had so many sets of unused gear in the bank. Soooo many. Now I can actually make a decent Rampager or Clerics set build. Gw2 has some of the deepest build diversity in any mmo ever. Between Condi damage, gear sets, runes, sigils and traits there’s tons to experiment with.

I just don’t understand this whining over improvements and editing.

@Malafie

I challenge you to do any Dungeon/Fractal path with a full team hitting only your auto attack with any team comp. And please, post video here.

In the end, you don’t like the combat system, wich is fine (thought i’m not sure why you are still here if you don’t like it) but stop saying it’s broken. It works as intended.

If you can’t adapt…there’s the door.

so many legendary forum warriorz.
power level liek grenade barrage.
2 stronk.
much much.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The game lacks build diversity. There is not enough in the trait system to make really unique and interesting builds. Not in the way you see in other MMO’s, or like in GW1. I blame the removal of the dual profession-system for this. I don’t feel like my necromancer is all that different from any other necromancer. Sure, I can max out my DPS, or my conditions, or specialize in minions. But I don’t really feel like there’s a lot of opportunity for interesting build mechanics. You won’t see any 55 monks in GW2, just to give an example.

I can’t speak for GW1 (I’ve heard it had a great system for builds), but in terms of every other MMO I’ve played, build diversity went by a meta. You are X class healer? You better be running this gear, these skills, should be using this rotation. You are X class DPS? You better be running this gear, these skills, using this rotation.

I’m not sure why you think GW2 is less diverse than any other MMO, there are lots of potential builds, but if they aren’t meta then everyone scoffs. It’s no different than any other MMO I’ve played. If you aren’t the meta then your DPS numbers suffer, your heal numbers suffer, and everyone is wondering why you are terrible (according to damage/heal meters).

I’ll just throw these threads to prove how little are you problems compared to other real issues:

Discussion of just the nerf of a trait, 9 pages in just a few days: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Revert-Maim-The-Disillusioned/first https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-preview-Condi-Mes-Nerfed/first
Discussion of new pre-release, highest upvoted thread in gw2 reddit subforum is just a matter of days: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Revert-Maim-The-Disillusioned/first
Talking about an exploit, +4000 posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z44ml/karma_weapons_exploit/
More gemstore items, +2200 posts: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestions-Gemstore-Items
Lag, +600 posts: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Lag-March-2015
Profession discussion, +3300 posts: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/first
Lack of new dungeons, nearly 1000 posts in just 11 days: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3akehl/i_really_wish_anet_would_focus_on_dungeons_again/

You are trying to convince myself your problems with the game are tremendous, while I’ve also suffered them and they’re not such a big deal, you got used to camera bouncing, now you can even make it happen much less, pet AI issues are annoying, but defenitely not game breaking…

You have a problem not being able to enjoy a thing cause of fuzzy details. And again, several threads with a few pages might seem it’s a big deal, but it isn’t.

redcomyn.4651:

Apolo.5942:

PVE is meaningless and its about time people got it straight, its a grind to ascended gear and skins. The faster you do it the better.

In Spvp and WvW i have to agree damage is a tad high, having a fairly high armor 2600 armor and 17k hp, thiefs can burst you down in one implementation of stone with no chance to react.

I like pve. I think it is pvp and WvW that is meaningless. I also have no interest in getting ascended armor.

i have to agree with the pvp and wvw ……but on the ascended ….it’s a rush to run head first into a zerg blasting mega zerker power from an asuran mesmer dressed in ascended gear …and watch them scatter like roaches when they are surrounded by illusions and taking massive group damage – i usually do that and make it easy for the zerg right behind me to finish them off lol