Guild Wars 2

Lunchbox.6970:

How many times have you gone 10 levels and forgotten to spend your trait points?

None. The first thing I do upon level is spending my trait point, even if I’m still in combat.

Tigerlily.3765:

Leveling up a new char in GW2 isn’t all that fun alone already, I had friends who couldn’t get into it. But I guess being a veteran player I don’t really care about that.

So your opinion is: leveling is bad already, so let’s make it worse?

No. Leveling is the main thing I do in the game. I have 25 characters planned out that I’d like to level at some point (haven’t bought all those slots yet, don’t worry ^^ ). Making leveling less interesting, less enjoyable and less rewarding is not the way to go.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Any character that was created before the feature pack build will be grandfathered into the system; meaning that they will have traits 1 through 12 of each line unlocked. The new 13 traits will need to be unlocked by everyone. Any character created after the build will be required to unlock all of their traits via content or purchasing trait guides.

Everyone in PvP will have access to traits 1 through 12, even on new characters. New traits will be initially locked in PvP and require an unlock similar to when we added the new healing skills. Once a trait is unlocked it is unlocked for all game modes. Hope that clears it up a bit.

Thanks for clearing that up.

But to be honest i will be making all of my alts before this comes into effect. (I only have one character ATM) The new changes just seem to slow down the progression too much for me. I see no advantage to using this new method for my new alts and only drawbacks.

The advantage of using the old system is that i get my traits sooner and can use lvl 60-80 to get used to it and find what suits me and my play style.

Unlike most of the ‘rich’ in this game 10/100 gold is not trivial; hell even paying 3-4 gold is a major deal for a new player.

*Just to clarify these changes affect new players/toons not the established level 80 elite.

I think this system would have been fantastic if it were there at lauch, I also think this is a much better way to introduce new traits and skills. And therefore, I think it’s a good change for new players.

For more experienced players, it seems less compelling. This isn’t new stuff you are introducing, you’re just taking the old benefits and hiding them behind old content. Like hiding last years Christmas presents in the outfield of a well groomed baseball field.

So I’m not excited.

This proposed change doesn’t sound good to me, although I’ll wait to hear the specifics. One thing I suspect is that trait unlocks might be gated by currently unpopular content in order to boost participation metrics. For example, new characters might have to finish the Dredge fractal to unlock a trait used in many builds.

The A-Net staff know which traits and builds are popular/meta, and they also have data on which activities don’t get done, so I can see putting one behind the other. Although I might be too cynical. We’ll have to see.

(Anecdote: This proposed change reminds me of one of the old Ultima games where you could not level up your character past certain points unless you completed specific quests.)

Jabronius.8674:

This proposed change doesn’t sound good to me, although I’ll wait to hear the specifics. One thing I suspect is that trait unlocks might be gated by currently unpopular content in order to boost participation metrics. For example, new characters might have to finish the Dredge fractal to unlock a trait used in many builds.

The A-Net staff know which traits and builds are popular/meta, and they also have data on which activities don’t get done, so I can see putting one behind the other. Although I might be too cynical. We’ll have to see.

(Anecdote: This proposed change reminds me of one of the old Ultima games where you could not level up your character past certain points unless you completed specific quests.)

Or your personal story (shiver)

The cost should absolutely be low because people often forget that some of us had a very difficult time with their DR/lopsided loot problem which precludes anyone making a significant amount of gold in the game. For some spending money on gems is just out of the question.

The cost for grandmaster should absolutely remain low for grandmaster due to this ongoing problem (ongoing until DR is 100% removed.)

AlexEBT.7240:

Evans.6347:

Don’t be so dramatic. There is no indication you’ll have to do dungeons or whatnot for the traits. In fact there are plenty of powerful monsters/bosses in the open world to add a trait to their defeat.

This might actually be a reason for people to kill a specific spawn or do a specific event chain for a change.

How many times you think ppl are gonna kill them after they get their traits from them? Do you think ppl will be running trait champ farms or that the areas will be just as deserted as before, now with the added necessity for you to kill the mobs, etc by yourself cause you need the trait but nobody is around? I mean, my server barely does the Arah meta chain once in a blue moon and if you look at the ranger trait screenshot they provided, one of the traits is aquired by killing the High risen priest. Yai for guesting i guess. Also double yai for gw2state.com/temples.
But a new player won’t know how the circumvent this or have the resources to buy them off. Eh this sytem may have worked in gw1 (somewhat, it was horribly annoying there as well) but gw2 is a different beast all together and all i’m seeing here is a source of fustration for new players if they don’t balance out the aquisition.

I was going to touch that subject originally, but then I decided against it because I seriously doubt many skills will be “locked” behind world bosses. In fact, those would be all the easier to get because people already farm these for loot.

I don’t expect it to be a big problem to be honest. I expect people will find help to take down the few bosses they can’t handle by themselves fairly easily. Perhaps even via the new LFG tool.

As for server populations, well that’s an issue Anet will have to address I suppose.

Vio.2506:

Unlike most of the ‘rich’ in this game 10/100 gold is not trivial; hell even paying 3-4 gold is a major deal for a new player.

*Just to clarify these changes affect new players/toons not the established level 80 elite.

That’s fine for the existing traits, but the new traits are being touted as end game horizontal progression and their price should reflect that.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I hope this is a joke… you can get 10g is like 45 minutes. If it is anything less than 20g there will be no point in doing the activities since it will be faster and cheaper to just buy it from the vendor.

Master traits can be 1g, those aren’t that important, but grandmaster need to be 20g minimum or the change is completely pointless.

I would say 50g puts it at a nice price point where most people will want to go out and hunt for them, but if you are lazy you can still save up for a week and buy it.

Most people will do the events because it’s more fun and satisfying to do the events or other in game activity rather than farm gold to buy the traits (kill the priest at the gates of Arah for example). 50g per grandmaster trait for a new character is ridiculous and defeats the purpose of offering this alternative to, for example, PvPers who don’t want to do PvE for these traits.

My gold rate has never been anything like 10g for 45 mins, Anet know what most people earn in an hour and I suspect you’re in the minority there. That kind of gold rate is only possible for dungeon runners, I suspect, not everyone does that.

Sounds like I’ll be bored to death being forced to go PvE.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This is a good change. Players just steamroll low level content at the moment. This will actually mean they will have to learn how to play in the early levels and then they will quickly ramp up in power at the later levels when they already know how to play the game.

Maybe it’s just me but I thought that having easy low level content had a great point, it meant you could learn basic gameplay without being afraid to make a few mistakes, thus new players were not put off continuing game play and actually had their confidence built up as they learnt the basic forms of their proffessions so they could then move onto the higher level content with some idea of what they would do with their builds later on.
The change from it being easy then harder later on meant that new players had already invested themselves with their characters up untill level 11 and then wanted to upgrade and keep pushing them so they could do more. For lack of a better word lets describe the current leveling and trait system as a “dangled carrot” but sooner or later you do get the carrot and it doesn’t feel like a dog’s age to get that first addictive taste of reward. That then makes you want to keep going to get the next little reward.
But I wonder if that 1st reward of feeling a sense of accomplishment at level 11 is pushed back how many of the newer players will feel fed up of playing before lvl 30, get royaly sick of their character and just ditch the game altogether?

It’s a great idea to try balance it out, but I think this is going to be far from the best way of implementing change to game play to achieve that.

Awbee.8405:

Tigerlily.3765:

Leveling up a new char in GW2 isn’t all that fun alone already, I had friends who couldn’t get into it. But I guess being a veteran player I don’t really care about that.

So your opinion is: leveling is bad already, so let’s make it worse?

No. Leveling is the main thing I do in the game. I have 25 characters planned out that I’d like to level at some point (haven’t bought all those slots yet, don’t worry ^^ ). Making leveling less interesting, less enjoyable and less rewarding is not the way to go.

I think you misunderstood me. Leveling (I find) quite boring now. I don’t think the new changes will do much either way, at least hunting for ‘elites’ is cool. But since I have 6 lvls 80s I’m not going to getting my panties in a knot worrying about whether or not this change is good until it comes out, since it does not affect me very much. The other changes rock imho.

I have a bad feeling about this…

Trahearne looking at ESO release versus what guild wars 2 brought on the table: This wont end well…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ohoni.6057:

Looks like another low blow for rangers. I’m starting to think Anet really does hold something against them at this point.

Faster arrows? Yeah, ok, good luck finding anyone who will use that over another trait.

It really is a kitten move. That trait should be free for all players “your arrows will actually hit things and do damage now!,” not something that you have to trait into. At absolute maximum it should be a 25-point minor trait.

Seriously, 100g per trait…even suggesting that seems ludicrous to me. Maybe 10g a trait, max.

10g? What, are we rolling in money like TP farmers now? No, 1g, maximum, and that’s only for the GM ones. The master traits should be 25s, the Adept ones 1s. If they plan on charging more than that then they’ll need to overhaul the economy to be more rewarding for those that don’t play the markets.

I hope this is a joke… you can get 10g is like 45 minutes. If it is anything less than 20g there will be no point in doing the activities since it will be faster and cheaper to just buy it from the vendor.

Master traits can be 1g, those aren’t that important, but grandmaster need to be 20g minimum or the change is completely pointless.

I would say 50g puts it at a nice price point where most people will want to go out and hunt for them, but if you are lazy you can still save up for a week and buy it.

Now that really is a joke! I can’t get 50g in a week in “farming” never mind 45 mins. If it goes that way it really will be at the cost of casual players loyalty, casual players who actually work most of the time and have funded Anet through spending real world money (quite a lot of real world money at that, I’ve paid enough real world money on GW2 I could have had it on subscription fee) to buy from the TP. So for that reason considering Anet are still a company and need to make real world profit I can’t foresee casual players being taken advantage of like that, especially as the price will more than likely be dermined by a calculated average ammount that charcaters at that level can earn ingame and afford just like the trait books are currently.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have done some tuning on monster stats pre-80 to account for players having less traits, and stats from traits. We wanted to push back traits to give characters more meaningful progression up to 80 and keep things simpler for a new player to learn over time.

I’m sorry but I completely disagree with this. As it is, everyone agrees that open world content is pretty friggin’ easy. With auto-scaling, you’re going to make sub-80 monsters in the world even more face-roll easy for down-leveled players. I brought my lvl 55 Mesmer to Wayfarer this week to help a friend who just picked up the game. I was completely destroying things, and I’m not an 80 and have blues/greens probably 5 levels below my character’s level. Now you’re going to make the game easier??

Also, I can’t help but notice that all of the red posts are in response to people saying “yay I love these changes” but not one in response to the numerous posters who have issues with the new trait system. I’m fine with the new features (earning traits, trait resets, 14vs70 pts) but I am NOT ok with the dumbing down & simplifying of this system. We are not stupid, and don’t require the level of hand-holding you think we need.

My buddy was elated at 11 when he could begin experimenting with traits. I couldn’t imagine the boredom that would ensue having to wait till 30 to do nothing but unlock utilities and go through the same old playstyle without traits. With the current model, by 30 we’ve got 2 major Adept traits already and can goof around with what works and what doesn’t. Fun right? Apparently too much fun because that will be gone. And then no grandmasters till 80…I’m sorry why exactly? Because when I hit 80 I wanted to focus on gearing up in exotics, not learn more traits. By 80 I’d already figured out which build I liked. Isn’t that the point of leveling? To learn the class? Well now we won’t be able to learn the class until we are level capped and only then experiment with grandmaster traits.

Also, some professions are HIGHLY trait dependent. Engineer & Mesmer, for instance, are fairly weak without traits. Now new players are going to feel weaker longer without their aid until 30. Or is this just a ploy to keep players from discovering & abusing Grenadier until they’ve already learned a different build?

I’d love a red response explaining exactly why they think this is a good idea. I just cannot wrap my head around it. It seems like intentionally pushing fun away. I am so glad I’m already level capped. This would bore the heck outa me.

They’re no way going to cost 50 gold.
The system probably doesn’t try to put players on a farming efficiency compromise but please those that enjoy the journey over the goal. The new ones might be quite pricy, but I’ll be really surprised if classic grandmasters would cost more than 1g/2g each.

Seras.5702:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have done some tuning on monster stats pre-80 to account for players having less traits, and stats from traits. We wanted to push back traits to give characters more meaningful progression up to 80 and keep things simpler for a new player to learn over time.

I’m sorry but I completely disagree with this. As it is, everyone agrees that open world content is pretty friggin’ easy. With auto-scaling, you’re going to make sub-80 monsters in the world even more face-roll easy for down-leveled players. I brought my lvl 55 Mesmer to Wayfarer this week to help a friend who just picked up the game. I was completely destroying things, and I’m not an 80 and have blues/greens probably 5 levels below my character’s level. Now you’re going to make the game easier??

Also, I can’t help but notice that all of the red posts are in response to people saying “yay I love these changes” but not one in response to the numerous posters who have issues with the new trait system. I’m fine with the new features (earning traits, trait resets, 14vs70 pts) but I am NOT ok with the dumbing down & simplifying of this system. We are not stupid, and don’t require the level of hand-holding you think we need.

My buddy was elated at 11 when he could begin experimenting with traits. I couldn’t imagine the boredom that would ensue having to wait till 30 to do nothing but unlock utilities and go through the same old playstyle without traits. With the current model, by 30 we’ve got 2 major Adept traits already and can goof around with what works and what doesn’t. Fun right? Apparently too much fun because that will be gone. And then no grandmasters till 80…I’m sorry why exactly? Because when I hit 80 I wanted to focus on gearing up in exotics, not learn more traits. By 80 I’d already figured out which build I liked. Isn’t that the point of leveling? To learn the class? Well now we won’t be able to learn the class until we are level capped and only then experiment with grandmaster traits.

Also, some professions are HIGHLY trait dependent. Engineer & Mesmer, for instance, are fairly weak without traits. Now new players are going to feel weaker longer without their aid until 30. Or is this just a ploy to keep players from discovering & abusing Grenadier until they’ve already learned a different build?

I’d love a red response explaining exactly why they think this is a good idea. I just cannot wrap my head around it. It seems like intentionally pushing fun away. I am so glad I’m already level capped. This would bore the heck outa me.

About level 30 is where you reach the world hub (previously L.A.) and gain access to most of the world, so it makes total sense if trait unlocks are supposed to be scattered around the world (including “starter” zones). You can reach the hub way before through the mist but, honestly, that’s quite anticlimatic and not intuitive at all.

I completely agree with you, however, on the lvl80 unlock not making any sense at all. I guess they want to encourage new players to experience Orr content but there are much better ways to do this and just too many things for these players to do once they reach lvl80.

I am quite happy with the trait changes overall I only wish they woudl implement a trait configuration save system …. please. It involves a lot of clicking to reconfigure a trait config, refund, realocate points, pick all majors, doing that during a run will interrupt it for significant ammounts of time that seams to go against the spirit of the change: “allowing seamless trait changes” and i woulso add: “giving people who truly master a profession an edge over those who just master a build”
I would also prevent trait changes in dungeons and fractals.

In terms of new charqacter I undestand the problems pointed out, but I think most people are overstating them. First of all when I leveled characters 1 to 30 was fun and 31 to 80 was very boring, they are trying to improve that long boring stretch which has its cons sure, but makes sense to me all in all. The having to unlock the traits, and there will be 65 per class, might become a chore when oyu are leveling your 3rd or 4th alt.

Sirendor.1394:

Sounds like I’ll be bored to death being forced to go PvE.

Or you can just buy the traits you want. There’s no forcing here. Of course, we don’t know the prices yet, but I’m pretty sure that they’ll make sure that the amount of effort involved in playing for the trait vs. playing for the gold for the trait is roughly equal (as equal as it can be with some people claiming to be able to get 10 gold in 45 minutes… that’s pure magic to me).

I’m afraid I have to say that I’m not terribly thrilled about them making PvE even easier though. If they have to do that, please scale high-level toons down more strongly.

Hummm .. Locking major trait options behind content …

I am eagerly waiting the howls of rage when Anet locks certain traits behind completing world bosses like Tequatl and 3-headed Wurm! Lol!!

CrossedHorse.4261:

So, with every trait line having 12 major traits to unlock, and every profession having 5 trait lines, that’s 480 traits to unlock across Tyria.

What I would be interested to see is if they actually tie each trait to an individual event/challenge, or if, say, all the traits from the first line (across all professions) are available from one.

So, to make it clearer, is it finishing the Balthazaar temple event gains you a Grandmaster trait, say trait XII, in the first trait line for your profession no matter what profession (so a Ranger and an Ele could both go and do the event and come away with that trait slot unlocked – though obviously it will be a different trait for each); or is it that if the Ranger wants trait XII in the first trait line he’ll have to go and finish the temple of Lyssa event because the temple of Balthazaar only awards trait XII in the first trait line for the Ele?

Hopefully that makes sense?

EDIT: Also, with the current system, you unlock 5 points and get a minor slot and then 10 and get a major … and you have to do this before progressing to the next tier. I’d like to know in the new system whether you still have to continue in this way – so, I unlock one trait point (taking me to the minor trait), but then do I have to go and unlock a major trait somewhere in the world (or buy it) in that trait line in order to get to the next minor? What if, in 6 levels, I haven’t gone and done that but now have a trait point? Will I have to go into another line to spend it, or wait until I can spend it on a trait I have unlocked?

It would make sense to do the latter in terms of progression, but if the latter is the way it will go, then the next tier (despite not being “locked” by us having to buy a book) is more effectively gated to us than previously because you still have to pay for a trait (in which case you still have to visit a vendor and buy a book), or you have to go and do some content. So just curious as to how this will work.

So, overall I’m pleased with the changes. Being a GW1 vet as well as some others here, I can say I liked skill hunting in GW1 and am one of those that asked for something similar here. This seems like a decent equivalent. I like that they are including the book alternative as well, since not everyone plays pve or enjoys the exploration of it. Different strokes for different folks.

I’m with many on the being iffy about getting the first trait point at 30. The math is awkward there:
30 1
36 1
42 1
48 1
54 1
60 1
66 2
72 2
78 2
80 2

14

Where as I think it flows a little better if they started at, say, 20 instead:
20 1
26 1
32 1
38 1
44 1
50 1
56 1
62 1
68 2
74 2
80 2
14

I guess we’ll see how it works out. They’ve tweaked things before, I’m sure they’d do it here if it were necessary.

the hunting system is good, and allows for better incentives to play the game. New specific traits is also a good system, as well as new skills would be, if they are also unlocked similarly.

However i have to agree the current point spread is pretty bad. its way too high level heavy. Messing around with skill points and having play options makes level 10-30 more bearable. I dont think its a great idea to make level 1-60 so boring. (yes this will also make 30 levels boring because while you do have trait points, you will only have the equivalent of 30 point at level 59. Also level 70-80 is probably a lot faster than leveling previously, due to taking part in max level open world stuff. doesnt make sense to put so much of the progression points there.

Unless you will be adding some new play options that make levels 1-60 interesting in other ways, i dont really see how this will be a good idea for leveling. Not to mention some classes need their traits early in order to be effecient, mesmer comes to mind as a class that works very poorly with no traits, and fairly well with traits.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So, overall I’m pleased with the changes. Being a GW1 vet as well as some others here, I can say I liked skill hunting in GW1 and am one of those that asked for something similar here. This seems like a decent equivalent. I like that they are including the book alternative as well, since not everyone plays pve or enjoys the exploration of it. Different strokes for different folks.

I’m with many on the being iffy about getting the first trait point at 30. The math is awkward there:
30 1
36 1
42 1
48 1
54 1
60 1
66 2
72 2
78 2
80 2

14

Where as I think it flows a little better if they started at, say, 20 instead:
20 1
26 1
32 1
38 1
44 1
50 1
56 1
62 1
68 2
74 2
80 2
14

I guess we’ll see how it works out. They’ve tweaked things before, I’m sure they’d do it here if it were necessary.

starting at 20 might be ok, but also, they should probably put the greater points spread throughout the leveling process.

Star Ace.5207:

Rangers are not bad at all. This is but another option. And of course besides personal preference, it may be helpful for other formats other then Dungeons, which is all what you are thinking about above.

In short, avoid thinking that what doesn’t benefit you or the way you see things won’t benefit someone else (ANet has plenty of Ranger players among them.) The main logical flaw in this forum: “ANet is wrong because they don’t cater to my playstyle-to hell with everyone else that plays differently than I do (or plays a different format than I do).” That applies to both bow lovers, who refuse to melee at all (though it is an option) and to people who belittle others for using bears and longbows.

I’m not saying the ranger class is bad. It’s not (though it could sure use a lot of love).

It’s ranger players that are bad. Notoriously so.

And in large part it’s Anet’s fault. Not for providing us with options, but for providing us with pitfalls. Bows are horribly underpowered, although shortbow is slightly better off for roaming, and Anet ritually updates the class with bad ideas. I guess they gotta counterbalance warriors somehow, right?

Are you seriously telling me that you think having “your arrows fly faster” as a major grandmaster trait is a good idea? This is a minor trait, or an adept level trait at best. Even then it’s pretty da­mn atrocious, so much that it should probably be free since it enables one of the basic mechanics to even work consistently in the first place. Unfortunately, any new player that equips a longbow is gonna look at that trait, look at the long range shot and point blank shot skills, and go “I guess the best tactic is to stand far away from combat”. If he pairs himself with a bear, he can be looking forward to being kicked out of just about every party, including mine and I actually like rangers.

I’ve been playing a ranger as my main since pre-release. I too use a longbow quite often, and before I grudgingly switched to zerker, I used a shortbow on my condi build. I am not saying Anet is wrong because they don’t cater to my playstyle, I can just as easily ignore the new trait. I am saying they’re wrong because the new trait is yet another pitfall that will cast a shadow on my favorite class.

1. Unlocking traits through gameplay – Great change. Much more immersive, as the games original vision communicated pre-launch led us to expect.

2. PvP locked traits -Terrible change. What happened to having everyone on equal footing the day they step into PvP?

3. Delay trait to 30 – Terrible change. Many professions are awkward and semi-broken without a few traits. What exactly is a player learning in those twenty extra levels that was blowing their minds back when traits became available at 10? I’m so glad I have all the characters at level 80 that I plan to ever have. Unless, of course, a new profession ever gets implemented, then… :P

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ohoni.6057:

Looks like another low blow for rangers. I’m starting to think Anet really does hold something against them at this point.

Faster arrows? Yeah, ok, good luck finding anyone who will use that over another trait.

It really is a kitten move. That trait should be free for all players “your arrows will actually hit things and do damage now!,” not something that you have to trait into. At absolute maximum it should be a 25-point minor trait.

Seriously, 100g per trait…even suggesting that seems ludicrous to me. Maybe 10g a trait, max.

10g? What, are we rolling in money like TP farmers now? No, 1g, maximum, and that’s only for the GM ones. The master traits should be 25s, the Adept ones 1s. If they plan on charging more than that then they’ll need to overhaul the economy to be more rewarding for those that don’t play the markets.

I hope this is a joke… you can get 10g is like 45 minutes. If it is anything less than 20g there will be no point in doing the activities since it will be faster and cheaper to just buy it from the vendor.

Master traits can be 1g, those aren’t that important, but grandmaster need to be 20g minimum or the change is completely pointless.

I would say 50g puts it at a nice price point where most people will want to go out and hunt for them, but if you are lazy you can still save up for a week and buy it.

that’s pretty funny Zudet!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Glenstorm.4059:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Phadde.7362:

This is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! ! !
I’ve wanted something like this for a long time and now that it’s finally coming, you managed to make it This kitten Good!

Such a refreshment! There are a ton of things like these that should be looked over, and it really feels like we (literally) have to wait ~2 years to see them change.
Might actually be my favorite patch of all time!

Thank you! This is the side of ANet that should never be turned away from us!

I’m glad you are excited, and we are too. This is just the first taste of stuff coming in the build. There will be many more blogs. =)

Thanks for the updates! Really excited about these changes!

Could you please also address concerns regarding early leveling difficulties for new players (especially for classes like Ele and Mesmers) since important defensive traits are now only obtainable starting at level 30 rather than at level 15?

We have done some tuning on monster stats pre-80 to account for players having less traits, and stats from traits. We wanted to push back traits to give characters more meaningful progression up to 80 and keep things simpler for a new player to learn over time.

Doesn’t this end up making the lv1-30 zones even easier for lv80 characters?

Note: I am not one of those people who are looking for “everything must be able to kill me if they just look at me funny” type of difficulty. Just something that came to mind while doing today’s daily.

another thing, it would have made more sense to make the trait books be buyable with karma than gold. Karma is a better currency for representing playing the game in any mode, where as gold represents how well you can merchant or farm

but i suppose the problem would be karma is currently pretty unbalanced currency, some have millions sitting around, some have like 0, then again the same can be said of gold.

Either way, i’m really glad that i already have the chars i want to play already in the game, and that i won’t be affected by the trait hunt…. at least considering the traits we already have. Having to farm (or even buy in outlandish prices) in order to be effective, isn’t my cup of tea.

I will be kind enough to remind you people the plague the game endured during it’s early days, ending up in almost ruining the economy. Right now, the game is working well if you ask me. Yes, it has some bugs and some glitches, but which game doesn’t? By changing it to a “Pay To Win” model (not everyone is keen on dungeons or farming), you’re simply allowing history’s faults to come back on our doorstep. And if history repeats itself, then what?

Why don’t you keep the existing traits unlocked for all players even after the change, hmm? Our chars will be effective, and any new trait wouldn’t be an issue to “farm”.

What you’re proposing, is hindering gameplay and i don’t like being stabbed in the back.

I wonder, though : Is each trait going to cost the gold required to get a tier 3 cultural set by any chance???

Asacledhae.2650:

Either way, i’m really glad that i already have the chars i want to play already in the game, and that i won’t be affected by the trait hunt…. at least considering the traits we already have. Having to farm (or even buy in outlandish prices) in order to be effective, isn’t my cup of tea.

I will be kind enough to remind you people the plague the game endured during it’s early days, ending up in almost ruining the economy. Right now, the game is working well if you ask me. Yes, it has some bugs and some glitches, but which game doesn’t? By changing it to a “Pay To Win” model (not everyone is keen on dungeons or farming), you’re simply allowing history’s faults to come back on our doorstep. And if history repeats itself, then what?

Why don’t you keep the existing traits unlocked for all players even after the change, hmm? Our chars will be effective, and any new trait wouldn’t be an issue to “farm”.

What you’re proposing, is hindering gameplay and i don’t like being stabbed in the back.

I wonder, though : Is each trait going to cost the gold required to get a tier 3 cultural set by any chance???

what do you mean by farm?
killing a single enemy is considered farming? i think that is considered hunting. farming implies doing the same repetetive task in order to grow over time. This is a series of specific goals to do one time, from what we have seen.

i dont really know what plague you are refering to at the game start. Nothing like what they are talking about here was in the game at game start at all. can you elaborate?

Khisanth.2948:

Doesn’t this end up making the lv1-30 zones even easier for lv80 characters?

Quite likely, unless they tweak the downscaling a bit.

But then again, lvl 1-30 zones shouldn’t really have to take lvl 80 characters into consideration anyway.

Blind Jimmy.1634:

These trait changes sound really cool, but one thing kind of worried me a bit and I couldn’t find it asked/answered already in this thread:

“Refunding traits is now free across the game: refund your traits any time you’re not in combat or in a competitive PvP match!”

Is there going to be a new cooldown on this? Or is the new meta for fractals/dungeons going to be to swap traits for every boss?

I hope the limit trait swapping in instances. So choose carefully before entering a dungeon, but hoping from dungeon to dungeon, you can change your traits easily without having to go to a retrainer.

it’s bad enough with parties wanting to make sure you’re running a certain build(thankfully my guild doesnt do this), but now parties will want to make sure you’re changing your build per enemy in dungeons/fracs?.
It probably won’t affect speedclearers as changing traits would take them. But I think the best thing would be for anet to limit trait changing in instances.

lordkrall.7241:

Khisanth.2948:

Doesn’t this end up making the lv1-30 zones even easier for lv80 characters?

Quite likely, unless they tweak the downscaling a bit.

But then again, lvl 1-30 zones shouldn’t really have to take lvl 80 characters into consideration anyway.

with their current design philosophy it should, because they actually want level 80 people to be wandering many zones, if people were supposed to stay in level appropriate areas, wed have a playing field that amounts to Orr, frostgorge and southsun cove at 80

lordkrall.7241:

Khisanth.2948:

Doesn’t this end up making the lv1-30 zones even easier for lv80 characters?

Quite likely, unless they tweak the downscaling a bit.

But then again, lvl 1-30 zones shouldn’t really have to take lvl 80 characters into consideration anyway.

Sure they should. That’s the whole point of down-scaling. To make content relevant to all players no matter their level. Anet intentionally created auto-scaling so that level 80 players can head into a level 25 zone and play with lower level friends and not be 1-hit smashers like in WoW. Also, it lets 80s finish world completion without the monotony of 1-hit smashing everything in lower zones.

Scaling needs to be taken into account at all times.

phys.7689:

another thing, it would have made more sense to make the trait books be buyable with karma than gold. Karma is a better currency for representing playing the game in any mode, where as gold represents how well you can merchant or farm

but i suppose the problem would be karma is currently pretty unbalanced currency, some have millions sitting around, some have like 0, then again the same can be said of gold.

Make the traits buyable by skill points, thats not so bad I think. depends how much skill points they’d cost.

Yes, but that is an issue with SCALING not lvl 80. What I said was they shouldn’t take lvl 80 characters into account when working on low-leveled zones, since that will simply make them too hard for non-lvl 80 characters, which the zones were made for in the first place.

Scaling IS an issue right now.

But changing the power of lower level characters but not the power of mobs in said areas in favor of high level characters is not really the way to go.

Has there been already a live stream or so about the 32 other traits???
Thought there should come one, or did I misread there something ??

The moment I actually started enjoying this game is the moment they ruin it with this tragic update. Dear anet, maybe instead of forcing us to do your old boring content that no one touches you try to make something new and interesting? Attack on Lion’s Arch was amazing but this is just fing lazy.

EDIT: Also it’s a GREAT idea to force new players to grind your kittenty content or pay for traits with gold so they can’t get into pvp or wvw. Really kudos for you anet.

Taygus.4571:

phys.7689:

another thing, it would have made more sense to make the trait books be buyable with karma than gold. Karma is a better currency for representing playing the game in any mode, where as gold represents how well you can merchant or farm

but i suppose the problem would be karma is currently pretty unbalanced currency, some have millions sitting around, some have like 0, then again the same can be said of gold.

Make the traits buyable by skill points, thats not so bad I think. depends how much skill points they’d cost.

problem with skill points is its in direct competition with getting new skills, which would make the level up process even more confusing and slower for new players.

Kunzzi.5714:

The moment I actually started enjoying this game is the moment they ruin it with this tragic update. Dear anet, maybe instead of forcing us to do your old boring content that no one touches you try to make something new and interesting? Attack on Lion’s Arch was amazing but this is just fing lazy.

EDIT: Also it’s a GREAT idea to force new players to grind your kittenty content or pay for traits with gold so they can’t get into pvp or wvw. Really kudos for you anet.

It honestly depends what content you have to hunt, and how it fits in to the leveling process. I will tell you that the high wizard in arah is no more boring than the LA event, in fact id say its probably less boring. I killed that dude a lot more times than i did the last LA event.

The truth is the game has had a very poor method of leading players to the interesting content before. While the high priest was more entertaining than killing a random horde of too weak zombies, it served less purpose.
This type of system at its base, allows anet to create compelling non grindy reasons to do the more interesting, and usually more difficult content.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So, overall I’m pleased with the changes. Being a GW1 vet as well as some others here, I can say I liked skill hunting in GW1 and am one of those that asked for something similar here. This seems like a decent equivalent. I like that they are including the book alternative as well, since not everyone plays pve or enjoys the exploration of it. Different strokes for different folks.

I’m with many on the being iffy about getting the first trait point at 30. The math is awkward there:
30 1
36 1
42 1
48 1
54 1
60 1
66 2
72 2
78 2
80 2

14

Where as I think it flows a little better if they started at, say, 20 instead:
20 1
26 1
32 1
38 1
44 1
50 1
56 1
62 1
68 2
74 2
80 2
14

I guess we’ll see how it works out. They’ve tweaked things before, I’m sure they’d do it here if it were necessary.

Theres a simple solution to this math.

Increase the Max Level from 80 to 90

30 > 1
36 > 1
42 > 1
48 > 1
54 > 1
60 > 1
66 > 1
72 > 1
78 > 2
84 > 2
90 > 2

And anywhen later to 100 with startign to gain a point instead of every 6 levels on every 5 Levels

30 > 1
35 > 1
40 > 1
45 > 1
50 > 1
55 > 1
60 > 1
65 > 1
70 > 1
75 > 1
80 > 1
85 > 1
90 > 1
95 > 1
100 > 0 Instead of getting a Trait Point here, you get somethign else for reaching Max Level

Much better solution :P

Orpheal.8263:

-snip-

Yes, someone else came up with that crazy thought too. However, if they were raising the level cap (which they would need to do in order for maxed 80s to get their full points with those equations), don’t you think that’s something that would have been mentioned?

It would be insanely stupid for them to raise the level cap right now, considering the unrest and discontent of the player base. Specially with the whole ascended fiasco, which is still fresh in many a person’s mind.

True, they still have several blogs left between now and the update where it could be brought up. Of course, we could always ask flat out in the live stream in about 90 minutes as well.

I won’t completely rule it out, since the devs have said that its not off the table, but I don’t think they are that stupid.

Orpheal.8263:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So, overall I’m pleased with the changes. Being a GW1 vet as well as some others here, I can say I liked skill hunting in GW1 and am one of those that asked for something similar here. This seems like a decent equivalent. I like that they are including the book alternative as well, since not everyone plays pve or enjoys the exploration of it. Different strokes for different folks.

I’m with many on the being iffy about getting the first trait point at 30. The math is awkward there:
30 1
36 1
42 1
48 1
54 1
60 1
66 2
72 2
78 2
80 2

14

Where as I think it flows a little better if they started at, say, 20 instead:
20 1
26 1
32 1
38 1
44 1
50 1
56 1
62 1
68 2
74 2
80 2
14

I guess we’ll see how it works out. They’ve tweaked things before, I’m sure they’d do it here if it were necessary.

Theres a simple solution to this math.

Increase the Max Level from 80 to 90

30 > 1
36 > 1
42 > 1
48 > 1
54 > 1
60 > 1
66 > 1
72 > 1
78 > 2
84 > 2
90 > 2

And anywhen later to 100 with startign to gain a point instead of every 6 levels on every 5 Levels

30 > 1
35 > 1
40 > 1
45 > 1
50 > 1
55 > 1
60 > 1
65 > 1
70 > 1
75 > 1
80 > 1
85 > 1
90 > 1
95 > 1
100 > 0 Instead of getting a Trait Point here, you get somethign else for reaching Max Level

Much better solution :P

increasing max level as is would be a really bad solution to anything. Im not saying it couldnt serve some purpose, but it would have to be a pretty different system, and it doesnt really add anything to the game as is

I don’t find this being a “crazy idea” …
Its just a normal idea like anythign else mentioned here, which has also some kind of possibility for the future to solve this “problem”

ANet always has said, that this debate is not of the table, as you say Lanfear.
However, I think also its something, that we won’t see in the Feature Update.
Not calling it stupid, but i just believe its simply still not the time for that kind of change to the game.

I think we will see first a Level Cap increase, once we will see the first real expansion to get announced, what my guess is, will happen in 2015, unless NCSoft decides to make up for more pressure on this topic due to other launching games in this year stealing too much of GW2’s playerbase, like ESO, like Wildstar, like eventually Blade & Soul, once it hits finally the West, like Everquest Next, or like probably also ArchAge.

And the list goes on 2015, so the pressure will get bigger from year to year and existing other games like WoW and FF14 won’t sleep in that time too.

SO I think, people don’t have to worry over anything in this first Feature Update.

Orpheal.8263:

I don’t find this being a “crazy idea” …
Its just a normal idea like anythign else mentioned here, which has also some kind of possibility for the future to solve this “problem”

I think it’s crazy, but that’s just me. Overly opinionated, I am.

ANet always has said, that this debate is not of the table, as you say Lanfear.
However, I think also its something, that we won’t see in the Feature Update.
Not calling it stupid, but i just believe its simply still not the time for that kind of change to the game.

Right. I think it was Mike Z in one of the relatively recent interviews that stated it wasn’t off the table. That could have changed one way or the other between then and now, but nothing has been said, so we really don’t know.

I also don’t think that they would just ‘spring’ that on us without some type of heads up. So I also don’t think we’ll see it in this update

I think we will see first a Level Cap increase, once we will see the first real expansion to get announced, what my guess is, will happen in 2015, unless NCSoft decides to make up for more pressure on this topic due to other launching games in this year stealing too much of GW2’s playerbase, like ESO, like Wildstar, like eventually Blade & Soul, once it hits finally the West, like Everquest Next, or like probably also ArchAge.

And the list goes on 2015, so the pressure will get bigger from year to year and existing other games like WoW and FF14 won’t sleep in that time too.

SO I think, people don’t have to worry over anything in this first Feature Update.

I am hoping we never see a level cap increase (and this is just my opinion obviously), and that they follow a similar path as they did in GW1. I want to see campaigns that ‘grow’ my character without the ever increasing need to level up (oo boy more big numbers, bah). They succeeded with in GW1, where the real meat of the campaigns was designed for the maxed player. I’d much prefer that to ’here’s new content, but now you have to level 10 or 20 more arbitrary levels.’ That’s just…not fun for me.

I think the change to traits is a terrific idea.
However, like most people, all my characters slots are level 80s with all skills unlocked already. So this isn’t really new content for what concerned people like me, it’s an improvement for new players to make the PvE world more enjoyable.

I have nothing against this but there should be 50 new skills released with this that are for level 80 characters.