Guild Wars 2

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Anet would have to implement a workaround for this, when you can just make a custom arena and duel whoever you want to duel.

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Actually, you can PvP with your PvE gear. The arenas in the guild halls and WvW both do PvP with your PvE gear.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Actually, you can PvP with your PvE gear. The arenas in the guild halls and WvW both do PvP with your PvE gear.

Wvw is not traditional pvp. The arenas are more of a minigame than a game mode, it’s between people you know.

As someone already pointed out, guild hall arena is a perfect place for this.

RabbitUp.8294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Actually, you can PvP with your PvE gear. The arenas in the guild halls and WvW both do PvP with your PvE gear.

Wvw is not traditional pvp. The arenas are more of a minigame than a game mode, it’s between people you know.

And thats what this thread is about a mini game called dueling

It’s on the table.

Wrong thread, sorry big thumbs small
Screen.

RabbitUp.8294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Actually, you can PvP with your PvE gear. The arenas in the guild halls and WvW both do PvP with your PvE gear.

Wvw is not traditional pvp. The arenas are more of a minigame than a game mode, it’s between people you know.

What is “traditional PvP?” Either you’re PvPing or you’re not. Surely you’re not suggesting that WvW isn’t PvP simply because they use the same gear as PvE gear or that dueling must have standardized gear for it to be PvP. WoW doesn’t have standardized gear, as far as I know. They get their gear from drops from dungeons, crafting, etc. Are they not PvPing when they fight the other factions? If you’re saying only having standardized gear is traditional PvP I really doubt that the history of PvP and MMOs will back you up.

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Anet would have to implement a workaround for this, when you can just make a custom arena and duel whoever you want to duel.

Join a guild with guild hall and arena, communicate with the guild leader to add a dueler rank thats as low as a guest, invite anyone you want to duel to your dueler rank and duel in guild hall. You use your pve gear and build, kick that guy off guild after duel, easy.

It is still duel anyone you want to duel with pve gear and build, i have done that and have great fun dueling already, why not you?

Crossaber.8934:

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Anet would have to implement a workaround for this, when you can just make a custom arena and duel whoever you want to duel.

Join a guild with guild hall and arena, communicate with the guild leader to add a dueler rank thats as low as a guest, invite anyone you want to duel to your dueler rank and duel in guild hall. You use your pve gear and build, kill that guy off guild after duel, easy.

It is still duel anyone you want to duel with pve gear and build, i have done that and have great fun dueling already, why not you?

I’m not really familiar with the ins and out of guild halls and the arenas but it was my understanding that all you need is to be partied up to enter someone else’s guild hall. Presumably once inside the arena is useable for them even if not a guildie?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Crossaber.8934:

RabbitUp.8294:

You can’t pvp with your pve gear. Pvp in this game works with separate gear, and skill/trait stats. So, how would dueling work in pve?

Anet would have to implement a workaround for this, when you can just make a custom arena and duel whoever you want to duel.

Join a guild with guild hall and arena, communicate with the guild leader to add a dueler rank thats as low as a guest, invite anyone you want to duel to your dueler rank and duel in guild hall. You use your pve gear and build, kill that guy off guild after duel, easy.

It is still duel anyone you want to duel with pve gear and build, i have done that and have great fun dueling already, why not you?

I’m not really familiar with the ins and out of guild halls and the arenas but it was my understanding that all you need is to be partied up to enter someone else’s guild hall. Presumably once inside the arena is useable for them even if not a guildie?

I think you need to invite someone into your guild first, make a dueler rank, invite them to hoin your guild, make them dueler rank, duel then kick them off guild.

Linken.6345:

Dueling=player vs player equals pvp=player vs player

flesh’s post proves this cant be done in pve.

Why should we have to prove it to you again?

Because his post is a quote about open PvP in the persistent world. In MMO’s, this usually involves either factions or free-for-alls. The amount of work to introduce factions into GW2 would involve a complete rewrite of the back-story and massive changes to NPC’s. That would truly be a prohibitive amount of work. So would revamping all of the cooperative play elements in GW2 to allow players to be able to FFA PvP at will.

Duels are a different animal. All they require is two players being able to fight without affecting other players. That functionality already exists in Costume Brawl. There’s no need to revise the game’s background or revamp its cooperative style.

ANet stated hey wouldn’t be putting open PvP into the PvE world. They did state back in 2013 that they were looking into dueling.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

We can’t prove you wrong (obviously). However if they’ve said that PvP in open world PvE would take a lot of work to put in and if they said they were looking in to adding dueling (PvP in the open world) but they didn’t do so then a distinct possibility is that it was too much work to put PvP in open world PvE.

They could have. There are any number of other possibilities for why they haven’t, starting with the fact that they put it into custom arenas and guild halls.

Edit: or do you think that the “prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible” would disappear or become negligible when it’s only some PvP in PvE? Why would the amount of work become less or unimportant when it’s still PvP in PvE?

See response to Linken, above. The amount of work to put dueling in would be trivial compared to putting in either faction or FFA PvP.

And I’ll bring out this quote as I wish. It refers to problems in adding PvP to PvE maps and thus is relevant.

Do as you like, but that does not change the fact that open PvP in a PvE environment and dueling are two very different animals.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Linken.6345:

Dueling=player vs player equals pvp=player vs player

flesh’s post proves this cant be done in pve.

Why should we have to prove it to you again?

Because his post is a quote about open PvP in the persistent world. In MMO’s, this usually involves either factions or free-for-alls. The amount of work to introduce factions into GW2 would involve a complete rewrite of the back-story and massive changes to NPC’s. That would truly be a prohibitive amount of work. So would revamping all of the cooperative play elements in GW2 to allow players to be able to FFA PvP at will.

Duels are a different animal. All they require is two players being able to fight without affecting other players. That functionality already exists in Costume Brawl. There’s no need to revise the game’s background or revamp its cooperative style.

ANet stated hey wouldn’t be putting open PvP into the PvE world. They did state back in 2013 that they were looking into dueling.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

We can’t prove you wrong (obviously). However if they’ve said that PvP in open world PvE would take a lot of work to put in and if they said they were looking in to adding dueling (PvP in the open world) but they didn’t do so then a distinct possibility is that it was too much work to put PvP in open world PvE.

They could have. There are any number of other possibilities for why they haven’t, starting with the fact that they put it into custom arenas and guild halls.

Edit: or do you think that the “prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible” would disappear or become negligible when it’s only some PvP in PvE? Why would the amount of work become less or unimportant when it’s still PvP in PvE?

See response to Linken, above. The amount of work to put dueling in would be trivial compared to putting in either faction or FFA PvP.

And I’ll bring out this quote as I wish. It refers to problems in adding PvP to PvE maps and thus is relevant.

Do as you like, but that does not change the fact that open PvP in a PvE environment and dueling are two very different animals.

Open world PvP in PvE: is PvP in PvE maps
Dueling in PvE: is PvP in PvE maps

The difference, group size. One is large groups the other is one vs one but they are both PvP on PvE maps. Unless you’re saying that the “prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible” is related to group size and that the problems disappear or significantly reduce with one vs one then that quote describes the problems of putting PvP in PvE maps.

“Do as you like,”

Why thank you. I plan to, but I appreciate having your approval. ^^

Crossaber.8934:

I think you need to invite someone into your guild first, make a dueler rank, invite them to hoin your guild, make them dueler rank, duel then kick them off guild.

You don’t have to be in a guild to join a guild hall, just be in the same party. I’ve helped people claim their guild hall and we did both the claiming and moved around afterwards without them inviting me to their guild. What you DO need though is to go to the guild hall entrance, you cannot port to the a guild hall of a guild you don’t belong to using the guild panel. If you go to the entrance and walk through it, you will get an option to select which guild hall to enter, and you will get the guild hall of any party member as an option.

I’m not sure if you can enter the arena without being in the same guild because I’ve never tested that, but I don’t think you will be blocked. And you don’t need specific ranks to duel, anyone can duel in the arena. Basically dueling in the arena is one loading screen plus a party invitation.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Open world PvP in PvE: is PvP in PvE maps
Dueling in PvE: is PvP in PvE maps

The difference, group size. One is large groups the other is one vs one but they are both PvP on PvE maps. Unless you’re saying that the “prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible” is related to group size and that the problems disappear or significantly reduce with one vs one then that quote describes the problems of putting PvP in PvE maps.

The difference goes way beyond group size. ANet thinks of GW2 as a AAA MMO. They put a AAA price on the game and the XPac. No AAA MMO offers open world PvP in PvE maps without a backstory and rationale. Putting in that rationale would be a monumental task. As far as rationale goes, dueling could be warriors sparring.

The former requires a complete rewrite of the game. The latter requires using a mechanic that allows two players to fight in PvE maps. That mechanic already exists. Unless divorcing that mechanic from Costume Brawl is immensely complicated, the prohibitive amount of work in all likelihood refers to fitting open PvP into the game’s lore and overall coop mechanics, not allowing two players to fight without any effect on others.

So, if it’s not hard, why hasn’t ANet done it? My guesses: dueling fuels sales of custom arenas or serve as incentive to be in a guild with a hall; and there are players who abhor the very idea of dueling. Keeping it in arenas and guild halls serves as, “Out of sight, out of mind.”

For “Amount of Work to Implement” to be the reason why there’s no persistent world PvE dueling would require me to believe that ANet programmers could not easily adapt the mechanic allowing two players to Costume Brawl to two players fighting with their builds. I choose not to believe that they are that incompetent. It seems much more likely to me that other reasons account for both the “prohibitive amounts of work” and “Why hasn’t it been implemented” issues.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Open world PvP in PvE: is PvP in PvE maps
Dueling in PvE: is PvP in PvE maps

The difference, group size. One is large groups the other is one vs one but they are both PvP on PvE maps. Unless you’re saying that the “prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible” is related to group size and that the problems disappear or significantly reduce with one vs one then that quote describes the problems of putting PvP in PvE maps.

The difference goes way beyond group size. ANet thinks of GW2 as a AAA MMO. They put a AAA price on the game and the XPac. No AAA MMO offers open world PvP in PvE maps without a backstory and rationale. Putting in that rationale would be a monumental task. As far as rationale goes, dueling could be warriors sparring.

The former requires a complete rewrite of the game. The latter requires using a mechanic that allows two players to fight in PvE maps. That mechanic already exists. Unless divorcing that mechanic from Costume Brawl is immensely complicated, the prohibitive amount of work in all likelihood refers to fitting open PvP into the game’s lore and overall coop mechanics, not allowing two players to fight without any effect on others.

So, if it’s not hard, why hasn’t ANet done it? My guesses: dueling fuels sales of custom arenas or serve as incentive to be in a guild with a hall; and there are players who abhor the very idea of dueling. Keeping it in arenas and guild halls serves as, “Out of sight, out of mind.”

For “Amount of Work to Implement” to be the reason why there’s no persistent world PvE dueling would require me to believe that ANet programmers could not easily adapt the mechanic allowing two players to Costume Brawl to two players fighting with their builds. * I choose not to believe* that they are that incompetent. It seems much more likely to me that other reasons account for both the “prohibitive amounts of work” and “Why hasn’t it been implemented” issues.

That’s a lot of opinion and no facts. That’s all we both have, and I’m just as likely to be right as you are. You’ve certainly haven’t given more than your opinions here that (small) PvP in PvE is somehow different than (large) PvP in PvE or your opinions as to the why, “because lore.” (Like they couldn’t whip up new lore in a New York minute if they wanted to).

So my opinion still stands. They were referring to the underlying structure of PvE and this underlying structure is why they can have dueling in guild halls, which is a “privately” owned type of map with a different underlying structure but not have PvP in in regular PvE maps, without first doing the “prohibitive amount of work”

The only thing I do in this game is PvE. I love fractals, raiding, and farming. If I PvP it’s in a daily room which I do not consider PvP. I haven’t even finished my non repeatable tracks in WvW for mystic clovers. However, I would love dueling in the game!

I don’t understand arguments where it’s already been talked about we can’t talk about it. People aren’t elephants, we will beat as many horses as we want if that’s how you see it. But it’s just plain shameful how unconstructive and bigoted this topic seems. So here’s my suggestions of how this can work with 0 chance of griefing from either side.

1. This is the biggest one. The option for dueling is by default set to not able to receive requests. This means you can’t argue spam, you have to enable it for that to be a possibility. If you’re going to argue against dueling please make an argument against this point first.

2. Absolutely no dueling in WvW or PvP. It makes no sense to duel there where the only possibilities are someone interfering / being seen as intentionally trying to hamper the other players by not helping in the current game mode.

3. Have dueling only available in cities and lobbies. This will prevent people from griefing maps that have hard metas by trying to make it a duel central map which I could see potentially happening. I could see it being ok in core tyria maps, but to start off with I think just cities and lobbies would be for the best.

And lastly my reason for wanting dueling. I just want something to watch while I jump around in my favorite cities. I’ve truly only seen a majority of good duelists. People who jump into map chat from duels are almost always reported. Everyone agrees that’s just not where that belongs. I also understand this games PvP is geared towards team style, but that argument is just moot because roaming in WvW is a thing. So I won’t be dueling, but I will fight for dueling since it’s a nice option.

MoarChaos.8320:

The only thing I do in this game is PvE. I love fractals, raiding, and farming. If I PvP it’s in a daily room which I do not consider PvP. I haven’t even finished my non repeatable tracks in WvW for mystic clovers. However, I would love dueling in the game!

I don’t understand arguments where it’s already been talked about we can’t talk about it. People aren’t elephants, we will beat as many horses as we want if that’s how you see it. But it’s just plain shameful how unconstructive and bigoted this topic seems. So here’s my suggestions of how this can work with 0 chance of griefing from either side.

1. This is the biggest one. The option for dueling is by default set to not able to receive requests. This means you can’t argue spam, you have to enable it for that to be a possibility. If you’re going to argue against dueling please make an argument against this point first.

2. Absolutely no dueling in WvW or PvP. It makes no sense to duel there where the only possibilities are someone interfering / being seen as intentionally trying to hamper the other players by not helping in the current game mode.

3. Have dueling only available in cities and lobbies. This will prevent people from griefing maps that have hard metas by trying to make it a duel central map which I could see potentially happening. I could see it being ok in core tyria maps, but to start off with I think just cities and lobbies would be for the best.

And lastly my reason for wanting dueling. I just want something to watch while I jump around in my favorite cities. I’ve truly only seen a majority of good duelists. People who jump into map chat from duels are almost always reported. Everyone agrees that’s just not where that belongs. I also understand this games PvP is geared towards team style, but that argument is just moot because roaming in WvW is a thing. So I won’t be dueling, but I will fight for dueling since it’s a nice option.

There are many suggestions that make a specific place for dueling like major city, lionarch, personally i am not against it. What you suggested is very similar to guild arena, and all we need now is easy way to invite somebody to duel in guild hall.

Yeah, there’s already arenas in guild halls, so I don’t see the issue with similar designated fighting spots in cities and even out in the open world where it makes sense.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Bane
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brawler's_Bout
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stoneguard_Gate
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Whiskey_Bar
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Butcher's_Yard
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vollym's_Battle_Pit
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ashford_Forum

Ben K.6238:

Yeah, there’s already arenas in guild halls, so I don’t see the issue with similar designated fighting spots in cities and even out in the open world where it makes sense.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Bane
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brawler's_Bout
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stoneguard_Gate
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Whiskey_Bar
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Butcher's_Yard
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vollym's_Battle_Pit
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ashford_Forum

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trainer's_Terrace

There are just so many areas in the game that could host a duel between two players whiles others can watch. And if they were in some of the starter zones, new players could get a better feel for what to expect their game play to be like later on when they are more experienced with movement techniques and such.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That’s a lot of opinion and no facts. That’s all we both have, and I’m just as likely to be right as you are. You’ve certainly haven’t given more than your opinions here that (small) PvP in PvE is somehow different than (large) PvP in PvE or your opinions as to the why, “because lore.” (Like they couldn’t whip up new lore in a New York minute if they wanted to).

So my opinion still stands. They were referring to the underlying structure of PvE and this underlying structure is why they can have dueling in guild halls, which is a “privately” owned type of map with a different underlying structure but not have PvP in in regular PvE maps, without first doing the “prohibitive amount of work”

Facts:

• Rewriting the game’s backstory, lore, personal story and living story to account for faction play is not going to happen in a “New York minute.”
• There is nothing about the statement, “The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible.” which must mean the statement refers to mechanics and not fitting such into the entirety of the game design, which would include factors beyond mechanics.
• The mechanic for players to fight players in PvE maps has already been created. Not only is there Costume Brawl, there was a PvP event at the end of BWE 2 in one of the early Ascalon Zones.

The assumptions behind my opinions are factual. What facts do you have behind yours? Do you dislike the idea of dueling? If so, might there not be some confirmation bias occurring? Since I don’t care one way or the other, I doubt there’s any on my part.

no matter how they try to put this in the game pve wise . it will only make players

leave the game for good !! and if they did this i will never play or look at this game

ever again !!

IndigoSundown.5419:

BrotherBelial.3094:

ANet have said no to this, simply because it can’t be done.

Citation needed.

The game can not make you hostile to just one person.

Costume Brawl says hi.

The Devs have said PvE duels where never intend, there for the game is not made in a way to allow it. It would brake alot of the game.

Citation needed — again.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Here’s what they had to say about open world PvP. They talk about how the game isn’t designed for PvP on PvE maps.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

In future, save this quote for threads asking for open world PvP in PvE zones. That feature has nothing to do with dueling.

I’ve followed this game for a long time. I’ve seen devs say they wanted to add dueling. I’ve never seen them say it can’t — or won’t — be done. Prove me wrong — if you can. Flesh’s quote absolutely does not do so.

You are hostile to anyone else playing costume brawl, so nice try. If you want to fine where ANet said they will and can not do it, look a few posts up, or a google search. Will help you find it. I know what I’m talking about I do not need to prove it, it is up to you to prove me wrong, good luck.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That’s a lot of opinion and no facts. That’s all we both have, and I’m just as likely to be right as you are. You’ve certainly haven’t given more than your opinions here that (small) PvP in PvE is somehow different than (large) PvP in PvE or your opinions as to the why, “because lore.” (Like they couldn’t whip up new lore in a New York minute if they wanted to).

So my opinion still stands. They were referring to the underlying structure of PvE and this underlying structure is why they can have dueling in guild halls, which is a “privately” owned type of map with a different underlying structure but not have PvP in in regular PvE maps, without first doing the “prohibitive amount of work”

Facts:

• Rewriting the game’s backstory, lore, personal story and living story to account for faction play is not going to happen in a “New York minute.”
• There is nothing about the statement, “The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible.” which must mean the statement refers to mechanics and not fitting such into the entirety of the game design, which would include factors beyond mechanics.
• The mechanic for players to fight players in PvE maps has already been created. Not only is there Costume Brawl, there was a PvP event at the end of BWE 2 in one of the early Ascalon Zones.

The assumptions behind my opinions are factual. What facts do you have behind yours? Do you dislike the idea of dueling? If so, might there not be some confirmation bias occurring? Since I don’t care one way or the other, I doubt there’s any on my part.

If I was against it would I be giving other people suggestions in this very thread on how they might get dueling. So, confirmation bias on your part I guess in thinking I’m against it. (Nice try though)

And your assumptions may have some facts behind them, but that doesn’t mean that these “facts” are relevant to why the devs said it was lot of work.They are your opinions that they are relevant, just like my opinions are mine. Your opinions aren’t better than anyone else’s here since they aren’t based on anything other than speculation that these possible facts fit the situation.

As for this:
“The mechanic for players to fight players in PvE maps has already been created. Not only is there Costume Brawl, there was a PvP event at the end of BWE 2 in one of the early Ascalon Zones."

I remember that event. Did you ever consider that it being a bwe that they were able to switch out the normal PvE map for a WvW type map?

If you can come up with some real actual facts, not speculation facts that might or might not be relevant, then go ahead and post them for us to see. Until then, I’ve read your opinions and you havent been able to show they are more than your opinions.

What’s wrong with duelling in guild hall arenas ? Isn’t that why they were added .. ?

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

The whole argument is meaningless.

There is already duel in PVE, it is called WvW.

Oh no, probably our friend can not stand professional roamers in WvW, so it depends on game that creates a pve bullying system to duel with ppl that doenst have experience in pvp.

Possibly a related question, isn’t the reason why WvW player names hidden to stop griefing during fighting? And if so, how would it work in PvE if you can see names before hand?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That’s a lot of opinion and no facts. That’s all we both have, and I’m just as likely to be right as you are. You’ve certainly haven’t given more than your opinions here that (small) PvP in PvE is somehow different than (large) PvP in PvE or your opinions as to the why, “because lore.” (Like they couldn’t whip up new lore in a New York minute if they wanted to).

So my opinion still stands. They were referring to the underlying structure of PvE and this underlying structure is why they can have dueling in guild halls, which is a “privately” owned type of map with a different underlying structure but not have PvP in in regular PvE maps, without first doing the “prohibitive amount of work”

Facts:

• Rewriting the game’s backstory, lore, personal story and living story to account for faction play is not going to happen in a “New York minute.”
• There is nothing about the statement, “The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible.” which must mean the statement refers to mechanics and not fitting such into the entirety of the game design, which would include factors beyond mechanics.
• The mechanic for players to fight players in PvE maps has already been created. Not only is there Costume Brawl, there was a PvP event at the end of BWE 2 in one of the early Ascalon Zones.

The assumptions behind my opinions are factual. What facts do you have behind yours? Do you dislike the idea of dueling? If so, might there not be some confirmation bias occurring? Since I don’t care one way or the other, I doubt there’s any on my part.

you forgot this

Hannelore.8153:

What’s wrong with duelling in guild hall arenas ? Isn’t that why they were added .. ?

They are expensive.

ugrakarma.9416:

The whole argument is meaningless.

There is already duel in PVE, it is called WvW.

Oh no, probably our friend can not stand professional roamers in WvW, so it depends on game that creates a pve bullying system to duel with ppl that doenst have experience in pvp.

Roamers are not the problem, its zergs that rush in mindlessly because “Bags” and “Go to PVP you scrub”

Tumult.2578:

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

Please give more information on why people would quit playing if dueling was added into PVE? Would it be because of the losing and or unfairness of a build? Or would it be because of people play dirty?

This is the simplest solution that can make everyone happy: If you don’t like to duel, then don’t duel. If you do like to duel, then you can duel as long as you follow the rules that are already known to everyone who does duel.

General Erofcharrs.9835:

Tumult.2578:

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

Please give more information on why people would quit playing if dueling was added into PVE? Would it be because of the losing and or unfairness of a build? Or would it be because of people play dirty?

This is the simplest solution that can make everyone happy: If you don’t like to duel, then don’t duel. If you do like to duel, then you can duel as long as you follow the rules that are already known to everyone who does duel.

It’s a psychological thing. It doesn’t matter whether it logically will affect players or not, players will see it and many will feel instinctively it is the start of a trend they wanted to avoid when they came to GW2. It’s why many kicked off (understandably) over ascended gear, because so many came here to avoid just that. It didn’t matter the stat jump was insignificant.

It’s all about perception for the wider community. Being able to ignore it in this case is irrelevant, whether logic supercedes that or not. Duelling has enough negative baggage from its history in other MMO’s for its mere presence in open world in this particular game, to have a negative effect.

Duelling in pve or open world is not something that will attract players in great numbers. It will however, scare off players just by existing. That’s a net loss. Beyond adding in new tech, there is no reason not to add it to the pvp lobby as a separate area or a queuing room, but there is no convincing reason to bring it into the pve/open world area either.

Randulf.7614:

General Erofcharrs.9835:

Tumult.2578:

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

Please give more information on why people would quit playing if dueling was added into PVE? Would it be because of the losing and or unfairness of a build? Or would it be because of people play dirty?

This is the simplest solution that can make everyone happy: If you don’t like to duel, then don’t duel. If you do like to duel, then you can duel as long as you follow the rules that are already known to everyone who does duel.

It’s a psychological thing. It doesn’t matter whether it logically will affect players or not, players will see it and many will feel instinctively it is the start of a trend they wanted to avoid when they came to GW2. It’s why many kicked off (understandably) over ascended gear, because so many came here to avoid just that. It didn’t matter the stat jump was insignificant.

It’s all about perception for the wider community. Being able to ignore it in this case is irrelevant, whether logic supercedes that or not. Duelling has enough negative baggage from its history in other MMO’s for its mere presence in open world in this particular game, to have a negative effect.

Duelling in pve or open world is not something that will attract players in great numbers. It will however, scare off players. That’s a net loss. Beyond adding in new tech, there is no reason not to add it to the pvp lobby as a separate area or a queuing room, but there is no convincing reason to bring it into the pve/open world area either.

And I’m sure for every person that agrees with you there are others that disagree. It’s subjective. Some people really enjoy it in other games and would here as well. Some would not.

TehHobNob.4687:

Randulf.7614:

General Erofcharrs.9835:

Tumult.2578:

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

Please give more information on why people would quit playing if dueling was added into PVE? Would it be because of the losing and or unfairness of a build? Or would it be because of people play dirty?

This is the simplest solution that can make everyone happy: If you don’t like to duel, then don’t duel. If you do like to duel, then you can duel as long as you follow the rules that are already known to everyone who does duel.

It’s a psychological thing. It doesn’t matter whether it logically will affect players or not, players will see it and many will feel instinctively it is the start of a trend they wanted to avoid when they came to GW2. It’s why many kicked off (understandably) over ascended gear, because so many came here to avoid just that. It didn’t matter the stat jump was insignificant.

It’s all about perception for the wider community. Being able to ignore it in this case is irrelevant, whether logic supercedes that or not. Duelling has enough negative baggage from its history in other MMO’s for its mere presence in open world in this particular game, to have a negative effect.

Duelling in pve or open world is not something that will attract players in great numbers. It will however, scare off players. That’s a net loss. Beyond adding in new tech, there is no reason not to add it to the pvp lobby as a separate area or a queuing room, but there is no convincing reason to bring it into the pve/open world area either.

And I’m sure for every person that agrees with you there are others that disagree. It’s subjective. Some people really enjoy it in other games and would here as well. Some would not.

Regardless of the number of players it would drive off vs bring in, the number it brings in or gets to buy more gems will likely not off set the cost of putting it in place. Here are the things ANet would have to figure out:

1. How to keep spectators or people running by the duelers from giving the duelers buffs or removing conditions from them.
2. How to keep the duelers from giving each other buffs and removing each others conditions.
3. How to keep event scaling from counting duelers.
4. How to deal with people who want to duel where say Teq spawns or Shatterer spawns, etc. Do they just put specific areas in (some duelers want to be able to duel anywhere in the world)? Do they put a no-duel zone around the areas of world bosses? Are those no-duel zones even there when the world boss can’t spawn at all since those are on timers?
5. Do the duelists have the entire map to run around or are they limited to a zone?
6. How do duels work if a lot of people want to duel in the same area? Say the Black Citadel arena.

That’s a lot of work for something that likely not a majority of players want in the game.

That’s before even considering how to minimize the risk of griefing by the trolls who give decent duelists a bad name.

Seera.5916:

TehHobNob.4687:

Randulf.7614:

General Erofcharrs.9835:

Tumult.2578:

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

Please give more information on why people would quit playing if dueling was added into PVE? Would it be because of the losing and or unfairness of a build? Or would it be because of people play dirty?

This is the simplest solution that can make everyone happy: If you don’t like to duel, then don’t duel. If you do like to duel, then you can duel as long as you follow the rules that are already known to everyone who does duel.

It’s a psychological thing. It doesn’t matter whether it logically will affect players or not, players will see it and many will feel instinctively it is the start of a trend they wanted to avoid when they came to GW2. It’s why many kicked off (understandably) over ascended gear, because so many came here to avoid just that. It didn’t matter the stat jump was insignificant.

It’s all about perception for the wider community. Being able to ignore it in this case is irrelevant, whether logic supercedes that or not. Duelling has enough negative baggage from its history in other MMO’s for its mere presence in open world in this particular game, to have a negative effect.

Duelling in pve or open world is not something that will attract players in great numbers. It will however, scare off players. That’s a net loss. Beyond adding in new tech, there is no reason not to add it to the pvp lobby as a separate area or a queuing room, but there is no convincing reason to bring it into the pve/open world area either.

And I’m sure for every person that agrees with you there are others that disagree. It’s subjective. Some people really enjoy it in other games and would here as well. Some would not.

Regardless of the number of players it would drive off vs bring in, the number it brings in or gets to buy more gems will likely not off set the cost of putting it in place. Here are the things ANet would have to figure out:

1. How to keep spectators or people running by the duelers from giving the duelers buffs or removing conditions from them.
2. How to keep the duelers from giving each other buffs and removing each others conditions.
3. How to keep event scaling from counting duelers.
4. How to deal with people who want to duel where say Teq spawns or Shatterer spawns, etc. Do they just put specific areas in (some duelers want to be able to duel anywhere in the world)? Do they put a no-duel zone around the areas of world bosses? Are those no-duel zones even there when the world boss can’t spawn at all since those are on timers?
5. Do the duelists have the entire map to run around or are they limited to a zone?
6. How do duels work if a lot of people want to duel in the same area? Say the Black Citadel arena.

That’s a lot of work for something that likely not a majority of players want in the game.

That’s before even considering how to minimize the risk of griefing by the trolls who give decent duelists a bad name.

1. This isn’t hard to deal with. They already have a limit where you can only spread to 5 players.
2. Same as one. How often are you giving enemies in free for all say the guild hall buffs?
3. Like I said in my post, have the option to duel only in major cities and lobbies. The maybe in core tyria since there’s a low population there / no meta that require an entire map of people.
4. Complete non issue because dueling requests should be off by default if it were to exist.
5. Limited to a zone. The most common dueling in games has a circle drawn into the ground and if you leave it you lose. People not in the duel aren’t affected and they don’t affect the people inside.
6. Multiple circles would be drawn and they wouldn’t effect each other. Or if that messes with people usually games have a message pop up saying you’re to close to another duel to start one here.

So there’s an answer to all your points while everyone is ignoring the point one on my original post. Not everyone wanted fractals, or raids, but it’s ridiculous to ask for less modes just because you think people who want to duel are toxic afterwards. And if you don’t think that why are you fighting so hard against people who just want to have fun?

I don’t know. The PvP players don’t want PvE in their maps. Should the PvE players be different? Should the PvP maps and WvW maps be changed to accommodate the PvE-only players? Should all the modes of play be intertwined?

^ excellent point.

The WvW and sPvP crowds certainly don’t hesitate to inform the PvE players that they’re not wanted in those areas unless they are there to PvP.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know. The PvP players don’t want PvE in their maps. Should the PvE players be different? Should the PvP maps and WvW maps be changed to accommodate the PvE-only players? Should all the modes of play be intertwined?

I think that there is a difference. Some PvPers dont want PvE elements included in the scoring or victory conditions for PvP scenarios and maps. None of the people (that I have seen) requesting dueling in PvE maps are asking for those duels to contribute to scoring, completion, or any other aspect of PvE open world events.

I think social interaction and perception are aspects of PvE, events or no.

MoarChaos.8320:

…everyone is ignoring the point one on my original post. Not everyone wanted fractals, or raids, but it’s ridiculous to ask for less modes just because you think people who want to duel are toxic afterwards. And if you don’t think that why are you fighting so hard against people who just want to have fun?

Dueling is different from raids or fractals in that it alters everyone’s experience; raids & fractals are instanced and only affect those within. (To be sure, ANet’s choice of rewards and gating has an impact, but that’s not due to the existence of the mode.)

Here’s what I fear if dueling is introduced to the game:

• Chat spam of people asking for duelers or trash talking each other.
• Unwanted invites unless the UI is near perfect (and we know ANet’s UI is rarely better than good and too-often worse than ‘alright’).
• Trash talking on the forum, whether about specific people or other players in general.
• Diluted focus for the balance team. It’s hard enough to balance the existing modes.
• Change in the cooperative temperament of the community. I put this on the list mostly because of the sorts of discussions we have about dueling in the forums — it seems to bring out the worst of both supporters and critics and I don’t want to see that bleed into the game.

I’m not fighting hard against dueling — I don’t think ANet will do it unless the game becomes a lot more (or a lot less) successful. All the same, I don’t think it adds enough to the game for enough people to justify the risks and costs.

Ashen.2907:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know. The PvP players don’t want PvE in their maps. Should the PvE players be different? Should the PvP maps and WvW maps be changed to accommodate the PvE-only players? Should all the modes of play be intertwined?

I think that there is a difference. Some PvPers dont want PvE elements included in the scoring or victory conditions for PvP scenarios and maps. None of the people (that I have seen) requesting dueling in PvE maps are asking for those duels to contribute to scoring, completion, or any other aspect of PvE open world events.

WvW players are none to keen to have PvE people on their maps. When crafting was removed from WvW borderlands, one of the things that WvW players liked was it removed PvE only players. Since the borderlands rarely have a queue, their presence didn’t affect that.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think social interaction and perception are aspects of PvE, events or no.

Aspects of PvP as well.

The point is that the aspects of PvE requested to not be included in PvP are generally specifically those that affect scoring, victory conditions, and the like. An NPC standing in a corner, or a resource node, or the like are not generally sources of complaint. NPCs that must be defeated or protected, in other words mandated participation in PvE in order to further the PvP goal, are.

Is anyone here mandating participation in PvP in order to further PvE goals? I havent seen it. If someone does make such a suggestion I will certainly oppose it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know. The PvP players don’t want PvE in their maps. Should the PvE players be different? Should the PvP maps and WvW maps be changed to accommodate the PvE-only players? Should all the modes of play be intertwined?

I think that there is a difference. Some PvPers dont want PvE elements included in the scoring or victory conditions for PvP scenarios and maps. None of the people (that I have seen) requesting dueling in PvE maps are asking for those duels to contribute to scoring, completion, or any other aspect of PvE open world events.

WvW players are none to keen to have PvE people on their maps. When crafting was removed from WvW borderlands, one of the things that WvW players liked was it removed PvE only players. Since the borderlands rarely have a queue, their presence didn’t affect that.

And yet WvWers complain about that removal.

The primary complaint about PvE elements in PvP are when those elements affect PvP scoring and so essentially mandate PvE play in order to further PvP goals.

In order for the comparison to be valid duelers would have to be requesting that dueling be mandatory for completion of PvE goals. They are not.

Ashen.2907:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think social interaction and perception are aspects of PvE, events or no.

Aspects of PvP as well.

The point is that the aspects of PvE requested to not be included in PvP are generally
specifically those that affect scoring, victory conditions, and the like. An NPC standing in a corner, or a resource node, or the like are not generally sources of complaint. NPCs that must be defeated or protected, in other words mandated participation in PvE in
order to further the PvP goal, are.

Is anyone here mandating participation in PvP in order to further PvE goals? I havent seen it. If someone does make such a suggestion I will certainly oppose it.

I remember ANet did at one time, sort of. They used to require mapping (a PvE sort of thing) of WvW for Gift of Exploration.

They also had a PvE meta event where to get credit for the meta you had to do the Obsidian Sanctum jumping puzzle. On that one WvW players swarmed that puzzle and killed the PvE players, even the ones that tried to signal neutrality by using a
transformation potion. When PvE players complained on the forum about the WvW JP requirement, WvW players came on the forum to mock them and say, “delicious PvE tears.”

Edit: and of course, the Gift of Battle.

Typical post from a WvW player back when ANet had PvE objectives on WvW maps.

Terrahero.9358:

I dont go into the JP myself, but to the people who go there to absolutely wreck pve players i say: Good! And i dont discriminate between our server ganking or getting ganked.

You see, i want these achievements in general to be as much of a nightmare as possible to these PvE players.
“But theyll just stay around longer!” I know, i know. I’m thinking long-term here. These achievements are comming back next season.
And i want these PvE players to gaze upon their disproporionally, and disapointingly, small WvW season reward. And i want them to think back to what a pain and hassle it was to get it and then not bother next season.

Hopefully thatll get rid of a bunch of the queue, aswell as slashing heavily in the population of siege-hogging, Dolyak rushing, Rally-feeding, PvE heroes that are not a positive force in WvW at all.
Those who do care about WvW, and got to enjoy their WvW will stay and do so not because of a bunch of achievementpoints. And those are the people we want.

Ashen.2907:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know. The PvP players don’t want PvE in their maps. Should the PvE players be different? Should the PvP maps and WvW maps be changed to accommodate the PvE-only players? Should all the modes of play be intertwined?

I think that there is a difference. Some PvPers dont want PvE elements included in the scoring or victory conditions for PvP scenarios and maps. None of the people (that I have seen) requesting dueling in PvE maps are asking for those duels to contribute to
scoring, completion, or any other aspect of PvE open world events.

WvW players are none to keen to have PvE people on their maps. When crafting was
removed from WvW borderlands, one of the things that WvW players liked was it removed PvE only players. Since the borderlands rarely have a queue, their presence didn’t affect that.

And yet WvWers complain about that removal.

The primary complaint about PvE elements in PvP are when those elements affect PvP scoring and so essentially mandate PvE play in order to further PvP goals.

In order for the comparison to be valid duelers would have to be requesting that dueling be mandatory for completion of PvE goals. They are not.

I both read that thread and posted on it. A handful of WvW players were against the removal. The rest applauded it and one of the main reasons they liked it was the removal of PvE players from the map.

MoarChaos.8320:

1. This isn’t hard to deal with. They already have a limit where you can only spread to 5 players.
2. Same as one. How often are you giving enemies in free for all say the guild hall buffs?
3. Like I said in my post, have the option to duel only in major cities and lobbies. The maybe in core tyria since there’s a low population there / no meta that require an entire map of people.
4. Complete non issue because dueling requests should be off by default if it were to exist.
5. Limited to a zone. The most common dueling in games has a circle drawn into the ground and if you leave it you lose. People not in the duel aren’t affected and they don’t affect the people inside.
6. Multiple circles would be drawn and they wouldn’t effect each other. Or if that messes with people usually games have a message pop up saying you’re to close to another duel to start one here.

So there’s an answer to all your points while everyone is ignoring the point one on my original post. Not everyone wanted fractals, or raids, but it’s ridiculous to ask for less modes just because you think people who want to duel are toxic afterwards. And if you don’t think that why are you fighting so hard against people who just want to have fun?

1. That limit is meaningless if the only people around are the 1 person running by and the 2 duelers. That’s 3 people and it isn’t required to be in a party to get buffs from other players, though it gives higher priority to party members within range.
2. That’s in a guild arena which is in a guild hall. Those maps are likely set up differently than say Lornar’s Pass or Lion’s Arch.
3. Your last sentence leaves my question open: how do you keep duelers from scaling up events?
4. What does duel requests being off by default have to do with dueling around where Teq or Shatterer spawn?
5. How big is that zone? How it noted in play so that players don’t run over it on accident? Is there any vertical nature to this for those who wish to do underwater battles assuming there’s the ability to duel anywhere (there is water in Lion’s Arch if they limit it to cities).
6. How do you deal with the popular duel areas and who gets to duel there first? You can’t let them go on top of each other. If it’s too popular you risk the same lag inducing nature of world bosses, especially if limited to only certain areas. Not to mention harder for spectators to watch the fight they want to watch. But if you don’t allow for overlapping, then it wouldn’t take much if you were limited to only certain areas for them to fill up. How do you deal with who gets to go next?

I’m not saying that there aren’t solutions or that it’s impossible to put in place. Just showing how much work it would take for something that that likely a minority of players want. And we already have them having to shift teams around to keep LS3 from taking too long. Adding dueling would have to pull from some team. And I don’t think there’s enough demand for it compared to other things in the game for them to do it.

And for all we know it’s a side project for one or two of the dev team to work on when they don’t have anything else pressing to work on and it’s going to come sometime in the far future.

I don’t have a problem with open world dueling as long as they keep the chances of griefing to a minimum and can work out all of the problems that adding it to the game would bring.

Seera.5916:

TehHobNob.4687:

Randulf.7614:

General Erofcharrs.9835:

Tumult.2578:

It doesn’t matter if it can be done. Half the PvE players will quit and that will end the game. The dev’s know this from the repeated squashing each time it is suggested.
Good luck getting them to end their own jobs.

The hatred of dueling and all it entails is what’s wrong with it. It is intentionally not in the game, not missing from the game.

Please give more information on why people would quit playing if dueling was added into PVE? Would it be because of the losing and or unfairness of a build? Or would it be because of people play dirty?

This is the simplest solution that can make everyone happy: If you don’t like to duel, then don’t duel. If you do like to duel, then you can duel as long as you follow the rules that are already known to everyone who does duel.

It’s a psychological thing. It doesn’t matter whether it logically will affect players or not, players will see it and many will feel instinctively it is the start of a trend they wanted to avoid when they came to GW2. It’s why many kicked off (understandably) over ascended gear, because so many came here to avoid just that. It didn’t matter the stat jump was insignificant.

It’s all about perception for the wider community. Being able to ignore it in this case is irrelevant, whether logic supercedes that or not. Duelling has enough negative baggage from its history in other MMO’s for its mere presence in open world in this particular game, to have a negative effect.

Duelling in pve or open world is not something that will attract players in great numbers. It will however, scare off players. That’s a net loss. Beyond adding in new tech, there is no reason not to add it to the pvp lobby as a separate area or a queuing room, but there is no convincing reason to bring it into the pve/open world area either.

And I’m sure for every person that agrees with you there are others that disagree. It’s subjective. Some people really enjoy it in other games and would here as well. Some would not.

Regardless of the number of players it would drive off vs bring in, the number it brings in or gets to buy more gems will likely not off set the cost of putting it in place. Here are the things ANet would have to figure out:

1. How to keep spectators or people running by the duelers from giving the duelers buffs or removing conditions from them.
2. How to keep the duelers from giving each other buffs and removing each others conditions.
3. How to keep event scaling from counting duelers.
4. How to deal with people who want to duel where say Teq spawns or Shatterer spawns, etc. Do they just put specific areas in (some duelers want to be able to duel anywhere in the world)? Do they put a no-duel zone around the areas of world bosses? Are those no-duel zones even there when the world boss can’t spawn at all since those are on timers?
5. Do the duelists have the entire map to run around or are they limited to a zone?
6. How do duels work if a lot of people want to duel in the same area? Say the Black Citadel arena.

That’s a lot of work for something that likely not a majority of players want in the game.

That’s before even considering how to minimize the risk of griefing by the trolls who give decent duelists a bad name.

yeah this is why they do not want to do this in this game now with the skills which

are lacking so much say compared to the first Guild Wars where if they changed one

skill they had to change another skill just so it was evenly Balanced and the very same

reason why you never ever ever ever see it happen in Guild Wars 2 is the devs do not

want to deal with the hassles and problems it be like having to rebalance skill sets all

time in this game

Long story short:

People don’t want to be asked for duels because it’s “egotistical”.

As pointed out, duelers can go to Guild Arena (which defeats the point), go to PvP room (again defeats the point) or go to WvW (which again defeats the point). Those are our lovely options.

sephiroth.4217:

Long story short:

People don’t want to be asked for duels because it’s “egotistical”.

As pointed out, duelers can go to Guild Arena (which defeats the point), go to PvP room (again defeats the point) or go to WvW (which again defeats the point). Those are our lovely options.

Well you can always costume brawl anywere right?

bug squish it