Guild Wars 2

I just crafted my first ascended short bow (Zoros’s Short Bow). It took me two days to collect enough Empyreal Frags. I did it by grinding through mini-dungeons and jp’s on four different toons.

Two days to 500+ empyreal fragments is not “absurd”. I’ll admit, though, that it would have been nice if these things were rewarded as liberally as dragonite ore – meaning in terms of quantity per chest.

Kaizer.7135:

Vayne.8563:

Kaizer.7135:

kokiman.2364:

stof.9341:

Also, nobody gets 450 Mithril while leveling from 1 to 80 unless they go out of their way to gather as much as possible.

Just as a reference, when I reached Level 20 in GW1 I wasn’t even close to my first set of max armor + max weapons.

I’m sorry, but you’re TERRIBLE if you couldn’t get max weapons or armor in GW1 at level20 since they literally cost like 1platnium each.

This is simply wrong. In Prophecies, you got to level 20 LONG BEFORE you had the option to buy max armor, which you could first get from Droknar’s Forge. I was level 20 long before I reached Droks. At that time, I didn’t have 5k.

Maybe by the time I reached Droks I did…who even remembers.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Oroku

Sells max armor for 1k a piece, we’re not just talking about Prophecies here but GW1 as a whole.

I’m talking about Prophecies, because at this point in time Factions had just come out on the same time scale. In two more years, I guarantee you all this stuff will be a lot easier to get. It was the same way in Guild Wars 1. Stuff gets introduced and everyone says OMFG I’ll never get that…but then suddenly everyone starts showing up in it.

I’m just trying to compare apples to apples. If you want to compare Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2, after you could solo farm the Underworld on a rit, be my guest, but it’s a terrible comparison. I’m comparing Guild Wars 1 one year in to Guild Wars 2 one year in.

I want the best loot and i want it now!

Mortifer.2946:

Using all 9 weapons of guardian…. why do you need all of them on ascended tier? stat boost is not necessary. It is already easy to play with exotics. Craft only ascended weapon you use 95% of time. Like Greatsword, or Scepter.

I’m using either scepter+focus/hammer or scepter+focus/staff on daily basis, pretty much equally. Sometimes i switch to GS or 1h sword. And i do use both underwater weapons as well. That is 8 weapons already.

anzenketh.3759:

It is nice to know that you consider 2 weeks a crazy amount of time. Yes 2 weeks for a average player.

Nice to know that 90% (or more) of this game’s players are below average.

Then on top of that you can’t gather these fragments or any other of these bound materials pre-level 80 so any new person playing or someone leveling an alt will only be able to start grinding these materials out when they reach max level 80 even tho the first dungeon you come to is level 30. Also, dragonite ore and empyrean does not drop from rich ore veins. smh someone over there didn’t think this all the way thru before they released this mess.

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I agree. The game shouldn’t be about acquiring gear. It should be about what you’re going to do with that gear.

Tachenon.5270:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I agree. The game shouldn’t be about acquiring gear. It should be about what you’re going to do with that gear.

Right now as it stands all concerns aside, what are we going to do with that gear? If they are having us do all of these activities in the game to get said gear, are they simply expecting that we’ll continue doing those same activities in the game after being fully geared? Kinda makes you wonder. What’s next right? It looks like they are doing some revamping of skills and bosses that already exist. What new content is so important that you’ll have to have agony resist maxed aside from the obvious WvW concerns?

I guess the question is, a year down the road, how does this all play out? For how long will someone have that advantage? How much difference does it make long term.

I’m not so sure we can answer that yet, but I suspect it’s not as much as people think.

Tachenon.5270:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I agree. The game shouldn’t be about acquiring gear. It should be about what you’re going to do with that gear.

Sounds pretty much like one of those older FPS games, like CS or Quake.

RPGs are about evolving your character and part of that is improving your equipment.

kokiman.2364:

Tachenon.5270:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I agree. The game shouldn’t be about acquiring gear. It should be about what you’re going to do with that gear.

Sounds pretty much like one of those older FPS games, like CS or Quake.

RPGs are about evolving your character and part of that is improving your equipment.

Bad RPG’s do tend to concentrate on that part. That is usually because they have nothing else to offer.

kokiman.2364:

Tachenon.5270:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I agree. The game shouldn’t be about acquiring gear. It should be about what you’re going to do with that gear.

Sounds pretty much like one of those older FPS games, like CS or Quake.

RPGs are about evolving your character and part of that is improving your equipment.

“This greatsword goes to eleven.” ~ Lionguard Tufnel

Astralporing.1957:

Nice to know that 90% (or more) of this game’s players are below average.

That’s not how maths works.

Stokowski.5493:

Astralporing.1957:

Nice to know that 90% (or more) of this game’s players are below average.

That’s not how maths works.

Obviously. But someone equally obviously doesn’t know that.

tigirius.9014:

Then on top of that you can’t gather these fragments or any other of these bound materials pre-level 80 so any new person playing or someone leveling an alt will only be able to start grinding these materials out when they reach max level 80 even tho the first dungeon you come to is level 30. Also, dragonite ore and empyrean does not drop from rich ore veins. smh someone over there didn’t think this all the way thru before they released this mess.

Give me a break. You want to do the oh-so-hard-task of leveling to 80 (heavy sarcasm here) and be rewarded with an ascended weapon as you level to 80? Do you understand that you are supposed to work your way through rare, exotic, ascended/legendary? I know I did at release on my first char. Ascended is an end game item, just like legendaries. Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

TexRob.5183:

Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

No. Give us more game to play at 80. Not more crap to gather to make weapons we don’t need.

Tachenon.5270:

TexRob.5183:

Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

No. Give us more game to play at 80. Not more crap to gather to make weapons we don’t need.

If you don’t need it, why do you care?!?!?!?!

TexRob.5183:

Tachenon.5270:

TexRob.5183:

Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

No. Give us more game to play at 80. Not more crap to gather to make weapons we don’t need.

If you don’t need it, why do you care?!?!?!?!

Because I think we need more game to play at 80 and the devs seem hellbent on giving us more crap we don’t need instead of more game to play at 80.

TexRob.5183:

Tachenon.5270:

TexRob.5183:

Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

No. Give us more game to play at 80. Not more crap to gather to make weapons we don’t need.

If you don’t need it, why do you care?!?!?!?!

If people don’t need it why even introduce it.

Tachenon.5270:

TexRob.5183:

Tachenon.5270:

TexRob.5183:

Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

No. Give us more game to play at 80. Not more crap to gather to make weapons we don’t need.

If you don’t need it, why do you care?!?!?!?!

Because I think we need more game to play at 80 and the devs seem hellbent on giving us more crap we don’t need instead of more game to play at 80.

For a one year old game, there is a TON of level 80 content. Fractals, quite a few level 70+ dungeons, all dungeons can be ran at 80 and still be challenging. Tons of world events. WVW, PVP, guildmissions, crafting that can produce the best items in game. Living world content on a ridiculously fast pace basis. Seriously, step back and ask yourself what it is you are expecting? This game has the amount of end game content a 3 year old game would be happy to have, at the one year mark. I think people are getting jaded and spoiled.

I honestly can’t see the problem. I primarly WvW and gained 500 empyreal fragments in about 3 days…flipping camps and capping towers playing about 3 hours or so so a total of 12 hours?, not that bad at all and if you play 2 hours a day it’ll take you a tad more? not that much of a difference really.

There a piece of kitten to get, WTF???

Of course all of the people who WvW or play PVP don’t see a problem with getting these things.

One of the problems with this system is it’s disproportionate according to what you do to get it.

Once again open world seems to get the short end of the stick. I supposed we’ll be hearing next about how the bots are to blame for this as well?

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

Call J.G. Wentworth, 877-LOOTNOW.

tigirius.9014:

Of course all of the people who WvW or play PVP don’t see a problem with getting these things.

One of the problems with this system is it’s disproportionate according to what you do to get it.

Once again open world seems to get the short end of the stick. I supposed we’ll be hearing next about how the bots are to blame for this as well?

Open World doesn’t have problems with Dragonite.

Dungeon Runners don’t have problems with Empyrial Fragments.

WvW seems to be happy that they got anything, despite that it’s a grind out there too.

No one has problems with Bloodstone Dust.

tigirius.9014:

Of course all of the people who WvW or play PVP don’t see a problem with getting these things.

One of the problems with this system is it’s disproportionate according to what you do to get it.

Once again open world seems to get the short end of the stick. I supposed we’ll be hearing next about how the bots are to blame for this as well?

I play PvE and I don’t see it as that hard to get either. But easy doesn’t equate to fast and hard doesn’t equate to slow. There’s a time barrier here.

Now if you needed this stuff to compete in PvE at this time (and clearly you don’t), then I don’t see why it matters if it takes two weeks to get, or a month or six months. Because you don’t need it. It’s a goal for people who need goals.

What percentage of the population needs goals? That’s the question. Can you answer it?

Calae.1738:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

There’s an answer to this. What ascended weapons brought is people doing content again. Stuff that used to be ignored is now done. You can take a temple in Orr again.

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

Vayne.8563:

Calae.1738:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

There’s an answer to this. What ascended weapons brought is people doing content again. Stuff that used to be ignored is now done. You can take a temple in Orr again.

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

And what happens when the ascended high is over, and the post-ascended crash starts when people get tired of farming and/or feel like they have nothing to progress toward anymore?

luckywaldo.6089:

Vayne.8563:

Calae.1738:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

There’s an answer to this. What ascended weapons brought is people doing content again. Stuff that used to be ignored is now done. You can take a temple in Orr again.

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

And what happens when the ascended high is over, and the post-ascended crash starts when people get tired of farming and/or feel like they have nothing to progress toward anymore?

There’ll be another chapter of the living story that will do the same job. In case you haven’t noticed, Anet is getting better at traffic control, not worse.

If living story could do the same, than the benefit of the added vertical progression is redundant.

Vayne.8563:

luckywaldo.6089:

Vayne.8563:

Calae.1738:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

There’s an answer to this. What ascended weapons brought is people doing content again. Stuff that used to be ignored is now done. You can take a temple in Orr again.

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

And what happens when the ascended high is over, and the post-ascended crash starts when people get tired of farming and/or feel like they have nothing to progress toward anymore?

There’ll be another chapter of the living story that will do the same job. In case you haven’t noticed, Anet is getting better at traffic control, not worse.

They’ve certainly added quite a few cattle guards recently, but if they want to keep this cash cow chewing the cud they’d better start producing some high quality forage.

I personally don’t see what all the fuss is about. people seem to be under the impression that they need to get ascended weapons ASAP or they will be crap.

those times stated by OP can be cut up into chunks. you don’t need to get it right now but all these people who are so used to being and staying top tier, who were once mindwashed into geargrind and are now phobic about it are making a lot more drama than it really calls for. My friend in WoW used to spend weeks to get one character geared up with the best possible gear because he had that same mind state – that if you’re not top geared at all times you are crap.

31 hours is a lot better than say four weeks for the same gear. Count your blessings people.

and as an example you can cut that 31 hours into, say 2 hours a day. it’ll take longer but the feeling of grind is reduced. it’s just something you do maybe once a day and move on to something else that entertains you. or if you’re bored and have nothing to do, spend more time getting materials that day. You can’t exactly do this with WoW. (unless you were fine with being top gear when you’re old and balding. or worse.)

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

luckywaldo.6089:

Vayne.8563:

Calae.1738:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

There’s an answer to this. What ascended weapons brought is people doing content again. Stuff that used to be ignored is now done. You can take a temple in Orr again.

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

And what happens when the ascended high is over, and the post-ascended crash starts when people get tired of farming and/or feel like they have nothing to progress toward anymore?

There’ll be another chapter of the living story that will do the same job. In case you haven’t noticed, Anet is getting better at traffic control, not worse.

They’ve certainly added quite a few cattle guards recently, but if they want to keep this cash cow chewing the cud they’d better start producing some high quality forage.

Maybe some people have a different idea of what is high quality than you do.

Wolfheart.1938:

TexRob.5183:

Tachenon.5270:

TexRob.5183:

Do you understand that they need to make this stuff harder to get, so that you have something to do at 80? Everyone just wants it now now now!

No. Give us more game to play at 80. Not more crap to gather to make weapons we don’t need.

If you don’t need it, why do you care?!?!?!?!

If people don’t need it why even introduce it.

That’s a really good question we haven’t got an answer to. Currently, the high level fractals are the only thing you really need the ascended equipment for, or rather, the Agony Resistance in them. The stat boost itself is actually pretty irrelevant. If players would be able to get agony resistance in their exotics, they would have no problem clearing high level fractals in full exos.

One could argue that you need the ascended equipment in WvW, but if it didn’t exist, nobody would need it in WvW.

The ascended tier is a completely artificial time sink because they do not have any meaningful (PvE) content for people to play after they hit 80. In the traditional gear treadmill games, such as WoW, the better gear is actually needed to be able to play the higher tier-content, i.e. raids. Thus getting the better gear actually unlocks new content for you.

In GW2, getting ascended unlocks nothing you could not access before, unless we count those high level fractals (each of which you have run dozens of times already to get to that high level) “content to unlock”.

ANet could have chosen between doing cool bi-weekly updates to keep people playing because the updates were fun and engaging, OR create new challenging content that requires better gear to compete in. Problem is, they couldn’t decide so they kind of dabbled in both, ending up with two directions which are both equally badly done.

Coldin.2840:

Open World doesn’t have problems with Dragonite.

Dungeon Runners don’t have problems with Empyrial Fragments.

WvW seems to be happy that they got anything, despite that it’s a grind out there too.

No one has problems with Bloodstone Dust.

The XP needed from 450 – 500 crafting is the main problem. Though the amount of Iron and mid-level Woods required for the Ingots & Spiritwood are also unreasonably excessive.

Go ahead… do the math on them… I’ll wait.

I actually need the ascended weapons. Do you seriously expect me to beat Lupicus solo record with just exotic weapons?

Also if I want to work on something I can always, you know, work in real life and get money. I don’t need work in my gaming.

Don’t focus on farming them then, I play wvw a lot and I get so many fragments it’s crazy. It’s so much easier if you get them as byproduct, which was probably anet’s intention in the first place.

Vayne.8563:

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

No it isnt.

But you are right about one thing, inspite of vertical progression its still a decent game, but it wont last. that makes one wonder why they themselves crap all over it.

I don’t care if you put the holy grail in a 5 man pug dungeon I’m not doing it.

Vayne.8563:

Kaizer.7135:

Vayne.8563:

Kaizer.7135:

kokiman.2364:

stof.9341:

Also, nobody gets 450 Mithril while leveling from 1 to 80 unless they go out of their way to gather as much as possible.

Just as a reference, when I reached Level 20 in GW1 I wasn’t even close to my first set of max armor + max weapons.

I’m sorry, but you’re TERRIBLE if you couldn’t get max weapons or armor in GW1 at level20 since they literally cost like 1platnium each.

This is simply wrong. In Prophecies, you got to level 20 LONG BEFORE you had the option to buy max armor, which you could first get from Droknar’s Forge. I was level 20 long before I reached Droks. At that time, I didn’t have 5k.

Maybe by the time I reached Droks I did…who even remembers.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Oroku

Sells max armor for 1k a piece, we’re not just talking about Prophecies here but GW1 as a whole.

I’m talking about Prophecies, because at this point in time Factions had just come out on the same time scale. In two more years, I guarantee you all this stuff will be a lot easier to get. It was the same way in Guild Wars 1. Stuff gets introduced and everyone says OMFG I’ll never get that…but then suddenly everyone starts showing up in it.

I’m just trying to compare apples to apples. If you want to compare Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2, after you could solo farm the Underworld on a rit, be my guest, but it’s a terrible comparison. I’m comparing Guild Wars 1 one year in to Guild Wars 2 one year in.

Guild Wars Prophecies or Prophecies, initially known simply as Guild Wars, is the first released campaign of Guild Wars. The release date was April 28, 2005.

Guild Wars Factions is the second stand-alone campaign of Guild Wars, released on April 28, 2006 in North America.

in 2 more years, Level 80 will no longer be the highest level and Ascended will no longer be the highest tier of gear. I really hope I’m wrong on that.

Astralporing.1957:

kokiman.2364:

Tachenon.5270:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I agree. The game shouldn’t be about acquiring gear. It should be about what you’re going to do with that gear.

Sounds pretty much like one of those older FPS games, like CS or Quake.

RPGs are about evolving your character and part of that is improving your equipment.

Bad RPG’s do tend to concentrate on that part. That is usually because they have nothing else to offer.

Because this is what people want. They are not interessted in a character progression, they just want to see their gear getting better.

took me exactly 6 days to get all empyreal needed for ascended wep which is bad but not as bad as i thought.

Nuka Cola.8520:

took me exactly 6 days to get all empyreal needed for ascended wep which is bad but not as bad as i thought.

It is bad. I have enough mats for 2 vision crystals already, but that is only because i’m farming them like crazy. It’s clear to me that i won’t be able to keep it up for all the weapons I need (the basic minimum is 25 weapons, and that’s only because i don’t count my engi, underwater weapons, and possible alternate weapons for my less used alts. The number i’d be aming for – those that i reasonably expect to use, is amost double that). After i drop down to my normal playing style, i’d be lucky to get 10 empyreal fragments daily on average – that’s close to two months per weapon.

TL/DR: yes, the farming speed is better than originally expected, but the nonfarming, casual gameplay speed is beyond horrible.

Astralporing.1957:

Nuka Cola.8520:

took me exactly 6 days to get all empyreal needed for ascended wep which is bad but not as bad as i thought.

It is bad. I have enough mats for 2 vision crystals already, but that is only because i’m farming them like crazy. It’s clear to me that i won’t be able to keep it up for all the weapons I need (the basic minimum is 25 weapons, and that’s only because i don’t count my engi, underwater weapons, and possible alternate weapons for my less used alts. The number i’d be aming for – those that i reasonably expect to use, is amost double that). After i drop down to my normal playing style, i’d be lucky to get 10 empyreal fragments daily on average – that’s close to two months per weapon.

TL/DR: yes, the farming speed is better than originally expected, but the nonfarming, casual gameplay speed is beyond horrible.

Wait, what? You need 25 ascended weapons? Are you triple boxing three octopus warriors? + one spare?

You can’t claim you NEED 25 of them. Just because you have a bunch of characters, does not constitute an excuse to complain about drop rates. That’s like complaining that property taxes are too high for your 10 houses.

Please for the love of Dwayna, don’t start property tax analogies

So, if ArenaNET made everything easy enough to get with a month of play.. what would you do after that? What motivation would you have to go further?

Of course they want it to take time! It’s an MMO, not a 30-day trial of Pac Man.

Once you take away the unrealistic expectation of being given everything immediately, you will find more enjoyment in the adventure.

Good luck.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

So, if ArenaNET made everything easy enough to get with a month of play.. what would you do after that? What motivation would you have to go further?

Of course they want it to take time! It’s an MMO, not a 30-day trial of Pac Man.

Once you take away the unrealistic expectation of being given everything immediately, you will find more enjoyment in the adventure.

Good luck.

We don’t want everything easy to get. We want BiS stats to be easy to get. You can put them on the ugliest ever weapon and armors if you want. They kinda did that for crafted weapons already :p

But I don’t need carrots that add nothing to the game to be dangled in front of me to keep playing it. The “unrealistic expectation” was true for GW1, a game that never released stronger gear or raised the level cap through 7 years of activity and 3 expansions. I played that game for 3 years and I never felt the need for my character to “progress” at the expense of others.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

So, if ArenaNET made everything easy enough to get with a month of play.. what would you do after that?

Play the game?

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

What motivation would you have to go further?

“Gosh, I wonder what’s over this next hill. Let’s go see!”

I have 4 of my level 80s that I don’t really play anymore camped at a JP. I log into them everyday, loot the chest and switch characters.