Guild Wars 2

Celtic Lady.3729:

Daily and monthly achievement points are not infinite. There are a finite number of days and months.

Huh? I suppose that eventually the universe will end, but I think GW2 will no longer be running by then…

Sera.6539:

It isn’t unreasonable, no. But in terms of competitiveness, it can be a bit of an annoyance. I typically take an hour to finish all the dailies I want to do (excludes WvW, PvP, and Story Dungeon/Daily Fractal). For people who can relax and eventually reach a cap, that’s an hour extra they can spend doing something else (perhaps more enjoyable in game).

Completing Dailies / Monthlies is a choice. Why would you do something that’s not enjoyable? Its a game!

You guys do realize it will take 5 AND A HALF YEARS to reach that amount right?

and it will take 10 AND A HALF YEARS to max out the monthly one…

Complaining about this is literally the most absurd thing I have ever heard…

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There’s a lot of complainers here who don’t understand the reason behind the changes.

You apparently don’t understand their POV either – should they call you names?

Player A – Doing daily achievements since headstart
Player B – Got the game last month

With the current system, Player B will always be at a disadvantage

Assuming similar playtime and style, Player B will always be at a disadvantage and should be. If GW2 doesn’t have a constant means for characters to progress, why will Player A continue to play the game? And if there is a constant means to progress, Player B will never catch up. That’s just life – like if I am 20 years older than you and we both start working at age 21, and we make the same amount of money, I will always have more money than you. Its just life.

DarcShriek.5829:

The deal with the daily cap is it will take most people more that 3 years to achieve it. I can live that cap.

The deal is that achievement points are one of the alternate currency systems in this game. It takes a huge investment in time to get a lot of them, and putting an absolute cap on maximum potential earned is a huge disincentive to play the game.

It is the same as saying ‘you can only run a dungeon 100 times, after that you no longer gain any gold reward but only get tokens.’ If you care about gold, you’re going to be mad and probably not want to do that dungeon anymore, correct?

I would feel a lot different if this cap had been put in place back when the original implementation of the achievement rewards system was done, but it wasn’t, and it is over a year later.

Again, it takes a LOT of time to go after all the daily points. That has a huge opportunity cost in game, because you can’t get those points by either chain speed running dungeons or doing TP flipping.

I could reasonably expect to hit the daily cap in 18 weeks from now. That is a whole different story from 3-5 years. Once I hit the cap, I’m going to be getting a reminder every time a daily hits that I got kittened over by Anet changing the rules. You can imagine how much that will kill my confidence in the relative permanence of ANY other reward system in the game.

How would you feel if you had worked your tail off, gotten 10 Legendaries, then had Anet decide “Sorry, we’ve decided you can only have 2 Legendaries per character, we’re taking 8 of them away”. If this cap had been in place at the start, I could have and would have only bothered with making sure I got the daily done, and spent the rest of my time split between WvW and farming cash. My personal opportunity cost is somewhere between 20-40k gold. If this change goes through as-is, that is exactly how I evaluate the effect on me.

Anet can’t give me back the time I have spent over the last year. What can be done to keep everyone happy is hardcap how many points you can earn per day, and adding an actually ‘competitive’ leaderboard that only reflects truly permanent achievements that any player, old or new, can earn.

…except they are not taking away your legends. It’s more like if they said there would be a cap of 20 legendaries when the highest someone in game has is 18. Which they wouldn’t do because it’s completely different.

The “acheivement” will be more meaningful when it doesn’t mean ‘log in every day.’

Capping how much you can do each day is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE idea. It means new players will NEVER catch up and will gain AP at very slow rate if they are trying to go for the shiney boots all of a sudden.

This cap would take 2000 days for the average player to reach the cap!!! As others have said – why all the whining about something that won’t affect you for YEARS? They pandered to AP hunters in this change because really affects us.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

You guys do realize it will take 5 AND A HALF YEARS to reach that amount right?

and it will take 10 AND A HALF YEARS to max out the monthly one…

Complaining about this is literally the most absurd thing I have ever heard…

As of right now, there are 20 daily AP you can get. 12 from PvE dailies, and 8 from PvP dailies. If you do each one, that’s 500 days. Which will take 1.369 years to max out. Most of the people I’ve seen that are against this change have said that they are sitting at about 5,000 AP from dailies. So, they only have 250 days; less then a year, before they cap out.

Since Anet has stated that they have no plans for an expansion, Living Story and Dailies are the reason why some people log in. Other then that, it’s either a grind for gold, a grind for PvP ranks, or a grind for WvW ranks. (Of coarse, people do enjoy those things, so “grind” may not be the nicest term for it.)

Personally, doing all the AP gets me out and playing in the world. When there is a Shiverpeak Killer/Vet Slayer/Event Completer etc, I’ll hop on and alt and map comp in an area until I get that daily. If its Mystic Forge, I’ll throw some rares in and see if I luck out and get a precursor. The PvP ones get me into PvP, and the WvW ones get me into WvW. I’ve never felt that doing all the AP everyday was a forced grind; I did it because I wanted to, and if I didnt want to, I didnt do it. Simple as that. I usually complete the LS/Monthly AP the 1st-5th day they come out. The rest of the month is just open, and at this point, no new dungeons or maps are out, and the game is becoming stagnant because the LS has been mostly temporary content.

For people that achievement hunt, there is a point where you hit a wall. You capped Entropy and Hobby Dungeon, you’ve done all the JPs, the Explorer, and all that. I’ve even done most of the weapon master ones by having alts do map completion with weapons I need. At that point, all the AP we can get is from dailies, monthlies and LS. Since monthlies and LS come slowly, the main way to keep getting AP is by dailies.

Capping the daily AP doesnt help anyone. It slows down the progression towards Achievement Chests. If you’re worried about people being unable to catch up on the Leaderboards, then take down the Leaderboards. Some one that’s been playing since launch will always have more then someone new. There is no rewards for being top on the Leaderboards, so who cares if you can’t pass someone because they do more dailies then you? It’s just like saying “I’m better because I have more Legendaries”. It just means that more Skritt will worship you because you have “shinies”. There’s not stat bonus’ or in-game imbalance.

I feel like capping Dailies is just another thing that will eventually cause people to become more inactive or leave the game, which is never good for a MMO. Who likes dead games?

2000 days! No way. its way less then that, more like 830 (about) days. If you do all the dailies possible, like I do, (between 12 and 15 (I think)) then in 2 years you are done. Then what happens? + Do the points you already have count? Is it 10,000 game life. For those that dont play a lot then it doesn’t matter but for those of us that do we get penalized cause we play too much? I don’t see the upside of this cap nor the downside of not having one.

Where are people coming from that it takes 5 years to get daily AP cap? On average I earn 15 AP points per day for about one to two hours play. At the same rate (if nothing changes), I will max out by September/October. Even if the daily is limited to 5 per day or something that would be worse for new players since I would have saved a lot of time by doing them early. Regardless I still only have 2500 AP points to go compared to others needing a lot more.

There’s a few misconceptions about this change too on both sides of the equation. The fact is anyone who already is close to or already at the cap will be at an advantage after the caps are put in place. These are people (including myself) that spent at least 1-2 hours a day everyday playing this game doing AP hunting (working in real play if lucky). All that will happen is that we will be able to focus on other achievements and other content of the day for those 1-2 hours we usually spent AP farming. In the fall I will be able to pick the easiest 5 dailies and complete them in 5 minutes at no AP opportunity cost. I myself am happy about this because it will be a more natural way of playing, without having a new artificial goal hanging over my head or the old indefinite AP farming I was beginning not to look forward to.

This change seems to be less about “leveling the playing field between new and old players” and more “Ok, we Anet need to limit the AP gain or we’re going to have to make a lot of new AP rewards indefinitely to keep up.” Living World achievements will still probably be the main source of AP gain anyways once it starts up again. If not then early AP achievers will again be at an advantage.

This change is good for anyone who wasn’t looking forward to doing dailies all the time or were getting bored/put off by it. This change is not good for people who really liked getting rewards to doing daily tasks. This change does nothing really for anyone who wasn’t interested and didn’t farm dailies/AP in the first place.

Yes a newer player or a non daily grinder may one day “catch up.” By that time after year(s) and if you’re still playing, an AP farmer will have 350-700ish+ more hours per year to sink into other GW2 content rather than dailies.

Osiris Shadow.5890:

I feel like capping Dailies is just another thing that will eventually cause people to become more inactive or leave the game, which is never good for a MMO. Who likes dead games?

Well, for me the lack of cap was something that made me quit the game. And adding the cap now might be just the thing that will bring me back. Though I can’t deny that I might be an odd example. Still, my point is… what should be the main tool to keep players playing is developing of new content, not creating compulsion to log and farm dailies endlessly. GW1 “died” not becouse it lacked more dailies but becouse Arena stopped creating any new content for it.

Balekai.6083:

Yes a newer player or a non daily grinder may one day “catch up.” By that time after year(s) and if you’re still playing, an AP farmer will have 350-700ish+ more hours per year to sink into other GW2 content rather than dailies.

Yes, true. But there is a difference between playing a lot at your own schedule and playing a lot on Arena’s schedule. Daily system just means that you need to log every single day to not miss out. And you better don’t dare to leave on any vacation! Think of all those AP lost becouse of that. And how about if I would like to not play GW2 for five days and then for the next five days play it for 8 hours per day? If I want to focus on achievements (that is what I like to focus on in games, be it an MMO, Steam game or PSN/Xbox game), current GW2 system does not allow me to do it.

Tigerlily.3765:

…except they are not taking away your legends. It’s more like if they said there would be a cap of 20 legendaries when the highest someone in game has is 18. Which they wouldn’t do because it’s completely different.

The “acheivement” will be more meaningful when it doesn’t mean ‘log in every day.’

Capping how much you can do each day is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE idea. It means new players will NEVER catch up and will gain AP at very slow rate if they are trying to go for the shiney boots all of a sudden.

This cap would take 2000 days for the average player to reach the cap!!! As others have said – why all the whining about something that won’t affect you for YEARS? They pandered to AP hunters in this change because really affects us.

To address your points in order:

I’ve already foregone between 10-40 legendaries worth of gold by choosing to pursue the alternate currency of Achievement points over raw gold. That is my already incurred opportunity cost.

New players will never catch up period under both the current and proposed system because they have no ability to earn ‘retired’ Living Story points. Long time players would have to completely stop playing for a year for that to even be a possibility. The point about the loss of ability to ‘sprint for the boots’ is ironic… because it applies even more for those of us who can hit the cap within weeks and thereafter will earn NO AP AT ALL from dailies. I would much rather have a system with a daily hardcap which slows everyone down equally than one where the frontrunners get kneecapped with no compensation at all.

I proposed a different leaderboard system that strips out all daily, monthly and living story achievements as the ‘competitive’ one. The only other option if people are serious about letting players ‘catch up’ is a hardcap on ALL achievement points. As in, absolute max is 25k.

I really don’t have a dog on this fight because I only have 1/3 of the daily cap, but seems like there are 3 kinds of people commenting about it:

1) Those who are in the 99% of the players that won’t be affected for years. I am in that group.

2) The daily achievement hunters that do it only to maintain their position in the leaderboards. Those seem to sincerely thank ArenaNet for relieving them from spending 2+ hours daily in a tedious grind

3) Those who “lived” for the daily achievs, since they probably have gotten every other achiev in the game (save from historical ones, maybe). Those are the ones complaining that the game will soon be over to them.

If you are in category 3… Let’s face it. You have experienced (almost) everything the game has to offer. Daily AP hunt should’t be end game content. It’s usually easy, grindy and contributes nothing to the community.

If you want to find other end game content, there are other opportunities:

1) Found a guild. Organizing, motivating people and making them happy is a serious undertaking, more challenging than achievements.
2) Organize large scale events like the Great Jungle Wurm world boss, to improve their chances of success.
3) Enter tournaments, like the PvP ones.
4) Become a respected commander in WvW.
5) Try other games! It is a good thing to take a break from the game from time to time.
Go play other games, and when you come back to see what is changed, you can come here to the forums and suggest other cool game mechanics you saw in other games, to AnenaNet to implement in this game.

Playing other games is not a bad thing. Taking a break is not a bad thing. You have to do what makes you happy. Since Daily AP hunt does not make me happy, this change does.

Sry I didn’t read all posts – just wanted to give you a few numbers.

I, myself, am pretty high on the leaderboard -currently between 10 and 12 in EU.

The AP come from 21.705 (9.055 Daily and 1.751 Monthly)

For your info – I have done every monthly so far (not counting around 20 from a bugged month) and every Daily. I just stopped doing the PvP-Tournament Dailies that were released this December. I guess therefore I missed around 400 points.

So I guess the maximum Daily points lie somewhere around 9.500 at this moment.
People will start hitting the cap in around a month or so – counting 20 total possible dailies.

For the monthly it will take at least 3 more years to reach the cap – if they don’t overhaul the system as it is now (which they said they will do – in the Blog-post).

I am really thrilled by this update, because in like a few weeks i can sit on my hard work and (theoretically) never do dailies again without losing out.
This might leave a bitter taste for some players – but yeah – we high rank players did the work – we deserve it.
All of you will catch up to us sooner or later with way less effort.

And one last thing i just can’t stay silent about – as much as I respect all of your opinions – please stop kittening about the changes if you are nowhere near the cap! (and maybe might not even play the game long enough to reach it) xD

Hellmasker.1649:

REJOICE! Our time is OURS once more! Praise be to the Six!

R.I.P Ewon – our plea was finally answered.

I’m a huge fan of many of the updates coming in this patch, including this cap on daily/monthly APs. While I’m nowhere near the cap yet, for people like me who are addicted to farming APs, it’ll be nice once I do hit that cap, as I’ll then not feel the stress to have to log every day and complete those tasks. Nice work Anet

This patch, with all the QoL it brings AND this daily cap, is, by far, the best update Anet has done so far.

I’am also an AP hunter (#85~EU], and this is such a relief to know this cap is coming and that its gonna put an end to this daily farm. I’ll be able to do more dungeons, more wvw and more exploration, everything is great !

And also, such a QoL update will make me want to spend more in the gemshop for sure.

Animaniak.5619:

And one last thing i just can’t stay silent about – as much as I respect all of your opinions – please stop kittening about the changes if you are nowhere near the cap! (and maybe might not even play the game long enough to reach it) xD

R.I.P Ewon – our plea was finally answered.

+1000. People can have opinions thats ok, but god if they are not even close to be affected by this cap, or have absolutely no idea about the stress a full daily run can give, please just accept this change as you will not even notice a single difference with your playstyle.

And RIP Ewon, December update has been beaten.

Yeah, this is ridiculous. Talk about Anet shooting themselves in the foot: ‘We have this lovely and largely meaningless system of horizontal progression (which is our whole philosophy, yay!), and we’re going to cap it so those players won’t be interested in playing anymore!’ Is there any logical rationale to making this change?

Oh, and to those saying that they are AP hunters who will feel less stressed once they hit the cap… deal with your own life. ANet isn’t your mother, you shouldn’t be relying on them to control your game time.

Olvendred.3027:

Yeah, this is ridiculous. Talk about Anet shooting themselves in the foot: ‘We have this lovely and largely meaningless system of horizontal progression (which is our whole philosophy, yay!), and we’re going to cap it so those players won’t be interested in playing anymore!’ Is there any logical rationale to making this change?.

Removing the annoying whiners from the game
“waah waah they removed hypothetical rewards!”

DDCarvalho.2071:

Removing the annoying whiners from the game
“waah waah they removed hypothetical rewards!”

ahhh, good point. Anet’s next move should be to delete gold rewards, item drops, karma, dungeon tokens, BoHs and XP from the game. Cause you know, them hypothetical rewards are just bad.

Really happy with this change. No longer do I have to suffer through 5 solo q wins every day just to keep up with other AP farmers…

Olvendred.3027:

ahhh, good point. Anet’s next move should be to delete gold rewards, item drops, karma, dungeon tokens, BoHs and XP from the game. Cause you know, them hypothetical rewards are just bad.

That would be awesome. This way, people would play because it’s fun, and would stop when it’s not fun anymore! Can you imagine that?

Anyhow, I decided to play with your idea because it is fun, I’ll stop when it’s not fun anymore.

The option to remove most rewards and simplify it is not as crazy as your “Reductio ad absurdum” tries to imply. By what I know, this is how most MOBAs (Multiplayer online battle arena) work. And these games are veeery popular.

Most MOBAs are very restricted in what kind of progression you can have, with your character being reset to level 1 with each new match and the only things remaining for eternity being cosmetical items, the experience of playing and having fun with friends. (Maybe also some gold, I don’t have much experience with them).
I think that the initial idea of ArenaNet was to replicate this in PvP, but it caused a divide between people who cried about it being a bad MOBA (unbalanced, complex, yada yada) and also the PvP didn’t capture people from PvE enough to compare to DOTAs and competitors.

DDCarvalho.2071:

Olvendred.3027:

ahhh, good point. Anet’s next move should be to delete gold rewards, item drops, karma, dungeon tokens, BoHs and XP from the game. Cause you know, them hypothetical rewards are just bad.

That would be awesome. This way, people would play because it’s fun, and would stop when it’s not fun anymore! Can you imagine that?

Anyhow, I decided to play with your idea because it is fun, I’ll stop when it’s not fun anymore.

The option to remove most rewards and simplify it is not as crazy as your “Reductio ad absurdum” tries to imply. By what I know, this is how most MOBAs (Multiplayer online battle arena) work. And these games are veeery popular.

Most MOBAs are very restricted in what kind of progression you can have, with your character being reset to level 1 with each new match and the only things remaining for eternity being cosmetical items, the experience of playing and having fun with friends. (Maybe also some gold, I don’t have much experience with them).
I think that the initial idea of ArenaNet was to replicate this in PvP, but it caused a divide between people who cried about it being a bad MOBA (unbalanced, complex, yada yada) and also the PvP didn’t capture people from PvE enough to compare to DOTAs and competitors.

I think you’re missing the point. People should be able to control themselves, rewards or no rewards. Certainly they should take responsibility for controlling themselves. If playing a game (in a particular way) is no longer fun for them, I honestly don’t understand why they would keep doing it, especially not every single day. And it’s certainly not a reason to restrict what may be a source of fun for other players, if they enjoy doing dailies for the AP reward.

Also, GW2 most certainly isn’t a MOBA. In fact, it’s removing itself even further from that model in this feature patch. It’s an MMO, which implies things like accruing rewards, and having progression. AP are horizontal progression, which GW2 is apparently all about. No one gets any gameplay advantages from having 20k AP compared to 10k compared to 1k. It’s simply a form of reward mechanism to show how long you’ve been playing and how much you’ve done. While you may say, “Oh, how shallow!” it’s very clearly something that appeals to a lot of gamers (even, as you seem to think, at the expense of having fun: ie. they would prefer to be able to see the accrued AP reward than to play in a manner they deem fun). GW2 also lacks any other means of this.

So. Is there really any reason to cap this number, which affects nothing in terms of gameplay, at a certain point? Especially if the game is optimistically looking 5 or even 10 years into the future? It’s simply disincentivising playing the game often and for a long time, which makes absolutely no sense.

Well, I stopped talking about the problem at hand to talk about another gameplay paradigm which we may try to absorb its best practices, but coming back to your question:

Olvendred.3027:

So. Is there really any reason to cap this number, which affects nothing in terms of gameplay, at a certain point? Especially if the game is optimistically looking 5 or even 10 years into the future? It’s simply disincentivising playing the game often and for a long time, which makes absolutely no sense.

If they want to incentivize another style of playing, yes, it makes sense.
ArenaNet always made it clear that wanted the game to be a cooperative one, at least when playing with allies. That’s why, by design, we don’t compete for rare mobs, gathering nodes and the game always rewards helping people doing an event together, so it won’t fail.

What I mean is, their decisions are influenced by their philosophy in making the game. If they want the game to be more cooperative and less grindy, they will take steps in doing so and I believe they are right in that. And this is one such step.

Also… Achievements are usually a fixed, non repeatable set of points in almost every game which implements it (allowing a dedicated enough person to complete 100% of them without having to “pre-order” and allocate every day of it’s life to it).
So, their decision would also be seen as “returning to form” in achievement management, altought not totally (there were people who wanted leaderboards to not include dailies or monthlies, for example).

And yes, this may mean that people complete 100% of the achievements and stop playing the game if they are not interested on repeating content. That is called “healthy behavior”.

DDCarvalho.2071:

Well, I stopped talking about the problem at hand to talk about another gameplay paradigm which we may try to absorb its best practices, but coming back to your question:

Olvendred.3027:

So. Is there really any reason to cap this number, which affects nothing in terms of gameplay, at a certain point? Especially if the game is optimistically looking 5 or even 10 years into the future? It’s simply disincentivising playing the game often and for a long time, which makes absolutely no sense.

If they want to incentivize another style of playing, yes, it makes sense.
ArenaNet always made it clear that wanted the game to be a cooperative one, at least when playing with allies. That’s why, by design, we don’t compete for rare mobs, gathering nodes and the game always rewards helping people doing an event together, so it won’t fail.

What I mean is, their decisions are influenced by their philosophy in making the game. If they want the game to be more cooperative and less grindy, they will take steps in doing so and I believe they are right in that. And this is one such step.

Also… Achievements are usually a fixed, non repeatable set of points in almost every game which implements it (allowing a dedicated enough person to complete 100% of them without having to “pre-order” and allocate every day of it’s life to it).
So, their decision would also be seen as “returning to form” in achievement management, altought not totally (there were people who wanted leaderboards to not include dailies or monthlies, for example).

And yes, this may mean that people complete 100% of the achievements and stop playing the game if they are not interested on repeating content. That is called “healthy behavior”.

But that’s the thing. Getting every single one of your dailies promotes individual competition, which a lot of players like, at the same time as promoting cooperative gameplay. You have to go to Shiverpeaks or Ascalon or Maguuma or wherever, and get enough kills or events. Get a couple of Group Events and kill a champ. Revive 10 things. Cap a Tower in WvW. Do a Story Dungeon. Etc, etc. Yes, you can do all of these solo, but at least it gets players out and around in the world doing them. And it gets experienced players out and about interacting with newer players, rather than playing with their (often equally experienced) friends. That’s why Anet introduced specific dailies like this: to get people doing all these different things that aren’t the most efficient way to make gold.

And no one is ever going to get 100% of AP. Even with this cap. Look at the WvW achievements if you don’t believe me, some are impossible even trying constantly for 10 years. Do you think it’s healthier to do a set of varied, changing dailies each day… or run around a BLs hoping to defend half a million friendly dolyaks and kill a million enemy yaks?

As for healthy behaviour: as I stated in my first post you replied to, I don’t think it’s up to Anet to police people’s play time. In another thread just yesterday, someone complained of being addicted to playing the TP – my advice was to quit the game for a while. If someone is acting in an unhealthy manner, or a manner that they think is causing them stress or problems, that’s always going to be the answer. But, within the next year or 2, it will be perfectly possible to get 10k daily AP and 5k monthly AP without being unhealthy or addicted. At which point… why do anything at all, since there’s no reward?

Moreover, we can return to the question of gold. It’s an equally hypothetical reward, but has a much, much higher impact on gameplay. Due to the latter, people get much, much more dedicated to farming it. Yet, there is no cap on the amount of gold you can make. There are also only a limited amount of ‘most efficient’ ways to earn gold. Should there be a cap on the amount of gold you can earn, if we want to disincentivise selfish grinding, and incentivise cooperate, ‘healthy’ play? I can tell you right now, that idea would not be received warmly on these forums. People expect to be adequately rewarded on gold for their play… what reason is there not to be rewarded in AP as well?

Halfway through the daily. Fifth of the way through the monthly.
Going to be another 3-7 years to hit the cap. Seems like a good enough life span to me.

GW1 is still going 8 years after release, some MMO’s are breaking 15 years. This is going to suck after a while just relying on the Living Story for your AP points after you’ve completed all the permanent ones and the daily/monthly.

I’m tired of limitations being placed on my play time and MY enjoyment. I don’t care about any of you and what you consider ‘fun’. I log on to do dailies and a couple world events and for living story releases. Occasionally for farming to maybe one day casually get an ascended something-or-other. I’m not an AP farmer but I’m 1/3 of the way to my daily max in 1.5 years(which is wrong since they introduced it long after release), have half of the permanent ones, and at least half the living story ones.

I actually have no problems with a capped on AP for dailies/monthlies. However, ANET need to review some of the permanent achievements. For example the WvW Slap the yak achievement, which have the ridiculous 1million yak’s kill just to complete it. I think the calculation done by some of the players is that is would take 8-10 years in order to get that one…..another is the SMC achievement, how many years do you expect us to achieve the SMC achievement? And SMC is a hotly contested castle in T1,2 and 3….. due to it’s strategic/exp/wxp/karma it gives for taking it (with boosters of course) and also the important PPT. Servers like to take SMC and hold on to it as long as they can and EBG will turn into a lag fest if all three servers go at it, so at most, one could only get 1 or 2 points added towards the achievement for taking SMC per day unless they are karma train-ing. Then again, only if they other 2 server “play ball” about karma train-ing. Imagine the years it takes to get that one.

Or the Giant Slayer achievement, when there is a total of 3 enemy giants to kill and 2 of them are Champions. And you have to kill 1000 to get it. And killing the one in Brisban Wildlands is not an option every time. Do you like killing it over and over again? Instead of 1000 kills, just put it at 100 kills or if you don’t want the elite players to get it so fast, put it at 250 then, since 250 is ANET’s favourite number…..due to the nature of the 3 giants appearance in the game.

So, please review some of the permanent achievements because of this capped to dailies/monthlies. If it take 1 year to get the Slap the Yak achievement, then I don’t see a problem with that, but if it takes more than 5 years just to get it….. that is just ridiculous.

Not good enough. ArenaNet need to remove achievement points completely. They’re just a poor substitute for actual meaningful gameplay.

I’m currently with OVER 9.000 (pun intended) daily APs, and very happy about this implementation:

• AP hoarders like me will have more time each day to focus on the other achievements (WvW, Living Story, …).
• Non-AP hoarders will not reach the cap until a couple of years from now, and probably by that time we will have a lot of other permanent achievements to get. It also helps them reach the AP hoarders if they decide to go up in the ranking.

I think that this is the best quality of life implementation in the game for us all.

It’s a win-win.

Edit: By the way, I don’t think that anyone was able to reach the 10.000 daily APs yet. I almost did every daily since day one and I still need a few hundred points to cap.

Edit 2: Currently, the AP ranking reflects the lack of social life of the players listed. With this change, only players that actually completed the permanent, “harder” achievements will be on top.

Yoroiookami.3485:

I’m happy for you guys, but for me, personally, it will just become harder to recognize who’s a total newbie and who’s not. :<

I’m not sure why you’d want to recognise who is a newbie and who is not, other than for dungeons, which in my opinion, is unfair. The Achievement Points should not be used for this purpose in my opinion.

Once, I declared my /age in map chat and someone started whispering me saying something like “You’ve got 5,000 hours in but only 8,000 achievement points? You should have more than that by now. Not that I’m judging!”

Well, my reply was “I don’t know about you, but I’m not playing this game for the points” which is true – I don’t play this game for the points. I play this game to have fun, mostly in PvE.

As I’ve said in another thread, there’s no such thing as a bad player, just sore winners and sore losers. I firmly believe this because we shouldn’t be singling out new and inexperienced players and separating them from more experienced and elite players. It’s unfair to categorise someone as a bad player, as someone you wouldn’t want in your party etc. To me it splits the community up, and leaves new players feel especially unwelcome.

That said, I’m not saying this is your intention! But I know some people advertise LFG saying “Minimum 5,000 AP” and stuff. If nobody is willing to help new and inexperienced players, how on earth will we get experienced players in the future?

This thread makes me feel sad.
Also, way too many people are playing GW2 for the wrong reason. It’s a game, it’s suppose to be fun…

As mentioned before this change happened mostly because Anet doesn’t want to make new skins every couple of months for 0.1% players who are daily achi farmers. I don’t think they do this because they want us have a better life instead if doing tedious life-sucking dumb tasks everyday….although that should have been their main reason.

I am tired of the argument that nobody is making you to do the achievements so why limit those who like doing them. I wonder have those achievement lovers never played a game 10 years ago because there were no easy and boring achievements? I’m talking here about unnecessary achievements like dailies that are not really a challenge. They are not there because you are having fun doing them. They are carrot on a stick that you cannot resist to follow because the reward seems so sweet.

Achievements were a difficult task in the past ….beating a game was/is and achievement…..playing game on harder difficulty was an achievement (and you didn’t need a pop up telling you that you completed it).

How about you think what makes games fun? Why we play games? You should realize that easy daily achievements and daily crafting caps are just hindrance we players would be better off without. They are there because it is easy for the developers of those games.

Being the awesome dude with the most achievements shouldn’t be based on how much you can sacrifice your own life. Why should you be rewarded because you find a little time to log in every day (unless that is what you want, but I don’t see people really wanting to be rewarded for such a lame thing as pressing a log in button)? I mean don’t you see how stupid it is? It is totally not healthy behavior but developers are trying their hardest to endorse it because it keeps their game “alive”, unfortunately you feel more like a zombie than a living thing.

I feel that you should be rewarded in games based on your skills (which you improve mostly by spending more time in the game, not just by loging in every day). Now this game is trying to reward you for showing up every day. As a player I feel that it is in my interest to push for gameplay that rewards skill and be strongly against features that have the sole purpose of sucking us in the game, on the basis of a fear of losing out something you cannot get tomorrow anymore. So I don’t get why people would defend no cap.

The difference between peoples’ achi point should be reflected by how difficult task they can do. For example the Liadri fight during Queen’s Jubilee, but not one like killing those watchknights in 6 minutes where you had no control over it (unless it is not limited achi for 14 days).

At 13k points I’m one of the top 1%, but I’m not really sure how this affects me. I’m at 6k dailies and 1k monthlies, so I have quite a way to go before getting hit with this wall.

I’m also not quite sure why this wall is needed. Did Anet give any reasoning behind this decision, or was it the usual thing and “this is what we’re doing, your opinions don’t matter”?

McJAC.4739:

I am tired of the argument that nobody is making you to do the achievements so why limit those who like doing them

How about you think what makes games fun? Why we play games?

And I’m tired of the argument that “I [the poster] don’t find something fun, therefore nobody can.” People play games for different reasons. People have fun for different reasons and from doing different things. Why limit that, when it’s won’t affect you or your playstyle in the slightest?

Yeah, other games in the past have had different achievement models. GW2 has the model that GW2 has. It’s not going to be any different going forward, just that certain aspects will be limited. It’s not like casual players are ever going to get to 10k AP anyway, so they won’t be affected by the limit. Equally, none of them were affected by the pre-existing lack of a limit. The only players who benefit from this change are the “AP hunters” who are apparently so unable to control themselves that they must spend their entire lives farming dailies instead of having fun. If farming dailies is not fun for you, but you do it every day anyway, it’s time to re-examine your life generally.

I agree that the change is probably because Anet can’t be bothered to make non-gem store skins every few months. But they could change the gaps between skins as you get higher, and it would give them plenty of breathing space.

Whenever they release a new skins for the highest AP mark, that’s aimed for a really small minority of the playerbase. Even if a lot of player will eventually hit that mark, the AP hunter that got it long before would have been gaining AP faster, making every new skin more exclusive than the previous one.
While I’m not against exclusive skins, it doesn’t seem the best approach from a bussiness point of view. The cap allows ANet to keep rewarding dedicated players without entering that danger zone.

The cap also makes the achievement system closer to what this kind of systems usually are, a feature aimed for completionists, even if it will still be somehow polluted by the LS achievements.

The next step should be IMHO a laurel system overhaul.
Each daily could grant a laurel and, on top of this, the daily chest could give another 10. With some laurel/cost adjustments and regular expansions on vendors, this could give people a reason to complete additional dailies beyond the 10k mark.

APfarmers are some of the most whiney people Ive ever encountered. There is absolutely no reason to stress about losing a daily. There’s no point in trying to be at the top of the leaderboards. If it stresses you out so much, then stop doing it. Stop your self-destructive tendencies.

Zomaarwat.3912:

APfarmers are some of the most whiney people Ive ever encountered.

You’ve never been on these forums before? This is a very quiet thread compared to any time a popular gold farm is nerfed.

Utterly irrelevant unless they also remove AP from LS or cap it as well.

you’ll still have a gap that can never be closed except it ll be all the LS releases that came out before that player joined as everyone will eventually hit cap

all they have done is move the problem

In short, like the change.

Many of the people I talk to, including myself, see the current AP system as an oxymoron. There’s nothing “achieved” just by doing something that’s been time-gated. I’ve played golf for almost everyday in the past few months. Tiger Woods hasn’t(injuries). Nobody outside my family knows my name better than his, and nobody should.

Its one thing for time to be a requirement, or even the most important requirement for an achievement (point). It can even be the only requirement(see weapon masters). The only achievement you earn when you do dailies is that of not having other obligations in real life. This isn’t a shot at anybody, I just want to highlight a point.

If two players invest the same or similar amounts of time in a game, why should one be granted more AP just bc he was able to play more consistently? It was their decision to tie dailies into achievement points(good luck seeing that in other MMO’s to come), just like they could have said, “We need more players between hours X and X. Bonus achievement points to these players.”

I would love to see some changes to the laurel system. I detest time gated anything in a game and this game already has too many currencies. The daily achievements still reward a mystic coin and nobody minds that all, because they are at least a bit useful and more important, they are tradeable.

The Laurel Vendors should be turned into Mystic Coin vendors and we should be able to turn in our laurels for coins. That would take one unwanted time gated currency out of the game without changing much in terms of player rewards from time played.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

I would love to see some changes to the laurel system. I detest time gated anything in a game and this game already has too many currencies. The daily achievements still reward a mystic coin and nobody minds that all, because they are at least a bit useful and more important, they are tradeable.

The Laurel Vendors should be turned into Mystic Coin vendors and we should be able to turn in our laurels for coins. That would take one unwanted time gated currency out of the game without changing much in terms of player rewards from time played.

The reason they introduced a new currency was to make it exclusively for the player who earned them, hence, why both laurels and the stuff a laurel merchant sells are not tradable. If you used Mystic Coins instead and sold them, it’s the same as one person doing the dailies for someone else. That’s the reason they did it, but of course, it’s up to everyone to decide whether that’s a good or bad reason in their own opinions.

First of all it seems every1 have forgotten what are daily achievements.

Definition of dailies:
Daily achievements were something to promote logging daily. However they were not something u do but something that does itself while normal gameplay. So saying something like “i like doing dailies” is like “i have no idea what to do so ill just do dailies”. And that makes me ask what are u doing here, because i always have something to do in GW2

Source of complectionists problem:
At first whole daily had 5 possibilities that took like 20min all MAX. And that was fine (well time gated content isnt fine in general but lets say it tolerable).
But Anet added more possibilities and daily spvp. By itself it wasnt that bad however Anet didnt limit the points u could get – each possibility meant 1 more point. And this is where problem started.

Even if it doesnt look so, GW2 is full of complectionists who liked to gather all possible AP, however then time required risen to 1-1.5h. When living story and wvw related ones appeared it reached amount 1.5-2h (depends on day) that was already pretty much but doable.
And then in december came update with changed pvp dailies. This is where hell for complectionists started – 8 ranked wins means at least 2h (100% wins) but in reality it is 3-6h. That means that complete dailies can take 4-8h, while getting chest for daily is still matter of few minutes. And that happens every day, unhealthy isnt it?

Now the point is that in other from of grinds u can grind more tomorrow less today and reach same amount, but in case of AP it wont come back – lost it lost.

That pressure to win in spvp was soooo annoying especialy when u heard clock ticking

My place in this situation:
Now we can reach the true subject:
I have now 21k+ AP including:
almost 9.4k from dailies
almost 1.7k from monthlies

that means in about 2 weeks after update i will reach daily limit (about 20ap/day), so i will be one of the first directly affected by this update.

What i feel about it is relief. Why? Because i regain atleast 4 hours to do what i want or play how i want, without being worried that i will loose something.

There are better solutions that this, best would be to limit possible dailies per month:
now we have 20ap per day so 600ap/month is possible so lets say limit is 300 or 400 and that would be best possible solution for me.
However as i said earlies solution proposed by Anet is improvement to current system, which is so flawed that i needed half page just to start.

Aaa, almost forgot, 10k/5k – that ratio is funny if something it should be 15k/3k that would be realistic and solve all problems for a while.

Complaining people:
Most of complaining people are under 7k daily AP so its far away from them for a long time, so they dont even need to care.
Or people claiming they dont care about AP who also shouldnt care about it then.
Other group are people who claim that like doing dailies themselves, but i already made comment on it at the beginning, but i will also add: If u like it then why do u care about reward for it? Dont u have fun just by doing them?? Actually i dont know such people.
And final group are people like me who are really happy that they will be able to *rest, atleast until better solution (like one mentioned before) is applied*.

Catching up in boards:

With current system:
You can do it only when some1 gives up on dailies, otherwise its impossible, if u try to take over determinated player gap is even likely to increase.
Neverending progress.

New system:
You can do it if person stops doing LS etc, however difference in points between people will become smaller and MUCH MUCH less time will be required to reduce that difference because of capped dailies. However u still cant overtake
In late stage slow progress.

In my proposition:
Same as in 1st case, but gap shouldnt grow, and required time will be also MUCH smaller because u can skip long dailies like wvw and ranked pvp ones for example.
Infine progress, moderate time and speed.

In other words in both cases its impossible to take over determinated player who played longer than u, and i think it logical, for example i cant get people who got points from HoM.

Olvendred.3027:

Oh, and to those saying that they are AP hunters who will feel less stressed once they hit the cap… deal with your own life. ANet isn’t your mother, you shouldn’t be relying on them to control your game time.

^^^^This^^^^

I’m somewhere around the top 40 NA and I have mixed feelings about this. It will be nice to cap out the dailies and be able to just pop in for a quick 5/5 for the daily which takes like 15 minutes some days.

However, I really wanted to collect all the zenith/hellfire/radiant skins and limiting the dailies is really going to slow this down. The cap should not be static, set it to like 10k but have it go up by 5 AP per day. This way when someone hits the max they can just complete the daily for 5 AP and chest. People can still catch up to the leaders because they can do up to 20 dailies a day to catch up. Even if the AP hunters miss a few days they can still reach the cap by doing extra dailies every once and a while.

I personally really like the change. Good thing I stopped doing all of the dailies.

However, I do understand why some people who spend many hours on regular dailies completing all of these might have a problem.

Anyway, thank you Anet.

Olvendred.3027:

McJAC.4739:

I am tired of the argument that nobody is making you to do the achievements so why limit those who like doing them

How about you think what makes games fun? Why we play games?

And I’m tired of the argument that “I [the poster] don’t find something fun, therefore nobody can.” People play games for different reasons. People have fun for different reasons and from doing different things. Why limit that, when it’s won’t affect you or your playstyle in the slightest?

Well, I wish I knew people who like achievements because they just love gathering , killing monsters under the water, discovering jumping 3 jumping puzzles they already know or doing story dungeons just because there is an achievement while, at the same time, they don’t care about the reward (1 AP). They just like the concept of dailies.

We are people and we are different in some ways, but we are similar in others and I strongly believe that daily achievements are being done just because of the rewards, not because of the great fun of loging in every day having something to do.

Again let’s think about what really brings us joy …sure we like rewards, but there are better ways of getting them….we don’t have to be suffering along the way before we get the sweet reward.

Meanwhile, we have to argue who’s point of view is right because we don’t really know what the actuall data in this case are. Nevertheless, I’m pretty sure that this change will bring much more benefits to players in aggregate than negatives (if any, because I still don’t know any people who just like the concept of dailies). I wish we could be all grown-ups, have our priorities straight and not succumb to these things that just take our precious time doing relatively meaningless tasks. Unfortunatelly, a lot of us are not that perfect and we would rather not be tempted.

This change is not solving everything, but it is an improvement and in the future we might see even better improvements in this way. Expecting the perfect solution right away is unrealistic, but we are moving the right way.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
I don’t know about NA top players, but a BIG thank you from all the EU achieve hunters (I’ve asked about 15 others on top of board and we are all celebrating).
No more need to have your wife do your dailies when stuck late at work… No more need to make hotel reservations in hotels that have no limited internet access to online games. THANK YOU

After actually reading this it seems like some people have a bigger problems then just hunting AP. I thought I was bad killing every ambient creature I saw with shield attacks when they are off cool down but maybe this is a good change as some of you seem to be at a point where daily APs are like an unhealthy obsession.

i am also against the change.
prioritized dailies over some ls because they were worth more ap and i had limited playtime.
now i will never get the ls points

There’s a lot of different things to do in this game and many way to enjoy it.
I’m kind of surprised by a lot of the comments here that imply that if I’m not playing and enjoying the exact same parts of the game that you are, I shouldn’t even be allowed to play here, even though we both paid the same for it.

The AP change seems wrong but we just don’t know enough yet to be sure. There are plenty of other ways to resolve the issue, some as simple as giving players a one time option to be removed from the leaderboard. There’s something else going on here.

Changes to the games reward structure could require this AP change. Efforts designed to make gameplay more friendly, or to restructure grouping or in game communication, or any number of things combined could require it.

Nothing I’ve read in this thread changes my perspective, that the game play that I enjoy, will become rewardless to me. But, let’s wait and see what this week brings. Maybe the issue will be lost in the new changes.