Guild Wars 2

Titan Cronus.9216:

Nage.1520:

Snip

The problem arose because of the ORIGINAL implementation of town clothes, which was an unnecessary layer of creation….a 4th class of clothing. Three armor types and town clothes was a forth. That wasn’t sustainable in any sense of the word.

Snip

Im just going to quote something I said in an earlier post on this thread to save me a little time by not writing it out again. : )

Titan Cronus.9216:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Clothing was meant to offer visual options that break the class roles, however we were never completely happy with the way it was isolated from the rest of the game and still felt largely the same.

But thats exactly what was perfect about it. Thats EXACTLY how it should be.

Look, if im a welder (which I am), I wear overalls and a mask to work. A fitness trainer might wear a tracksuit and trainers and a stock broker might wear a suit and tie.
But, when we all get home, we all wear the same casual clothes. Ok, I know thats not a perfect example because we all wear different casuals but you get my point, We all have work clothes specific to our profession (same as the armour class in game) but we all wear the same non-profession-specific clothes after work. You get what Im getting at.

The Town Clothes function was (or is as it stands at the moment) amazing. It does exactly what it says on the tin. A forth armour class that all characters can wear while not at work (in combat). The only problem is that there are not enough activities, games and events to do in them.

In contrast, I would make the oppersite argument that: the ORIGINAL implementation of town clothes was a completely necessary layer of creation….a 4th class of armour. Three combat armor types and town clothes, the forth. That was perfectly sustainable in every sense of the word.

We are a good example of complete oppersite opinions in this topic, Nage. ; )

I’m not talking about what you’re talking about. Think of it from a creation point of view.

The way that it was laid out, you couldn’t fight in town clothes. So what percentage of the playerbase would consider investing in it? I don’t have an answer, but I’ve seen quite a few threads complaining about town clothes on these forums saying people wouldn’t buy them because of the limited use they’d get out of them.

Now, Anet has to take an artist, and make those town clothes for five races. During that time, they’re making stuff only for the small percentage of people who might by it to stand around in DR or LA. That’s the real problem.

If they make a piece of armor, you can buy it AND I can buy it. If it’s a fourth type of armor, they lose sales and they won’t invest artist time in something that isn’t going to work out financially for them.

I mean, why did the discontinue all those town clothes permanently? Because people were buying them? I don’t think that’s the case.

The problem is that it’s not worth it for Anet to make that extra class and you’ll never get another piece of town clothes again?

Are you really of the opposite opinion? Do you really think that you’d be happy keeping your own townclothes the old way and never getting anything new for it?

Because I’m pretty sure that’s the choice.

Nage.1520:

I’m not talking about what you’re talking about. Think of it from a creation point of view.

The way that it was laid out, you couldn’t fight in town clothes. So what percentage of the playerbase would consider investing in it? I don’t have an answer, but I’ve seen quite a few threads complaining about town clothes on these forums saying people wouldn’t buy them because of the limited use they’d get out of them.

Now, Anet has to take an artist, and make those town clothes for five races. During that time, they’re making stuff only for the small percentage of people who might by it to stand around in DR or LA. That’s the real problem.

If they make a piece of armor, you can buy it AND I can buy it. If it’s a fourth type of armor, they lose sales and they won’t invest artist time in something that isn’t going to work out financially for them.

I mean, why did the discontinue all those town clothes permanently? Because people were buying them? I don’t think that’s the case.

The problem is that it’s not worth it for Anet to make that extra class and you’ll never get another piece of town clothes again?

Are you really of the opposite opinion? Do you really think that you’d be happy keeping your own townclothes the old way and never getting anything new for it?

Because I’m pretty sure that’s the choice.

I understand them trying to implement a new system that will allow greater flexibility and a wider audience in the future. The issue is that I paid money to get town clothes that are now being reduced in functionality below what I would have been willing to pay for. The tonics I can, and will, get a refund on. The other outfits I might get stuck with, despite them no longer being useful to me.

And I am glad that those who wish to wear town clothes in combat will get that – despite that not ever being something I was interested in. I am even happy that Anet will be able to generate more revenue with this system. I am hopeful this new system will allow them to bring back a variety of clothes that will be able to be mixed. I just want the gems back that I paid for outfits that are now broken – probably so I can spend them on the new, flexible clothing when it becomes available.

Now I’m going to say ANOTHER TIME what it seems nobody seems to understand.

a) I have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AGAINST TOWN CLOTHES BECOMING WEARABLE IN COMBAT. Any one of us uses armor as they wish and I do use a lot of armor as town clothes for roleplaying because I like them. Actually as I’ve said before, I even made an ele alt who looks exactly like my main toon, a thief, so she can wear light armor because they are the thing most similar to court dresses they’ve released in game. Just because of that the wardrobe system won’t help me much to get free slots in the inventory (except for bunches of shoulders and gloves I usually don’t show) since I don’t plan to pay for transmutation charges to use them and I will keep them transmuted into low level pieces of armor because I don’t plan to use them in combat. BUT THAT’S MY PROBLEM and I will manage it my way.

b) I’m MORE THAN HAPPY that those of you who have claimed you want town clothes usable in combat are getting what you want, even if that means I will have to combine the silly fuzzy hats with “serious” armor unless of town clothes I wear for fun. But I still can use them so I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM.

c) I’M PARTIALLY OKAY, even if not completely happy, with the “Outfits” system. You people are going to fight on your awesome Mad King’s outfit even if you can’t use a different headwear with it. You’re okay with it, I’m okay with it (I didn’t purchase it anyway, because it already looked like an armor and I wasn’t able to combine the shirt and pants with other pieces, but that won’t change much). I’m sure some of the people who wanted town clothes to be wearable in combat are not so happy either that they can’t combine their wintersday or cook outfits… but I don’t lose my hope that they will change it in the future, so I DON’T COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT.

d) But what all of you, HAPPY PEOPLE, seem not to understand is that there’s a big bunch of clothes that will be turned into tonics. THAT MEANS YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO USE THEM IN COMBAT EITHER. Not me, not you. WE ALL LOSE HERE. Oh, maybe you don’t have them, and since they’re not available anymore, why should you worry?. But there’s people in this thread who do. And that’s what we’re complaining about, and asking, begging and demanding ANET to re-consider, giving them options and posible solutions, which may be or may be not possible, but we can’t know if they continue ignoring us.

Now, I hope you bother to read this and realize WE ARENT’ AGAINST YOU, that people who got partially your request (which is being to use as armor a small part of the town clothes, and use as outfits another small part). We just want ANET to aknowledge the way they’re implementing it is NOT A GOOD ONE, and they should consider changing their mind and find a way not to make us lose, or at least be brave and explain why they can’t, for instance, make tonics into outfits (I am perfectly aware of the technical difficulties to make outfits splitable, so I am not asking about it, no matter how much I dislike the idea).

And no, before you say it, I will say it again. I don’t want a refund. I want ALL my town clothes work in the same way. Just that.

Ware what you want
I would like to see armor be come unlocked ware you can were all types of armor and it no based on spesified armor sets allowing the player to chose is play still and look freely with out warring if the armor heave ,medium, or light. All people have the own thoughts on play still with the armor bean unlock your armor will also fit you play still even if it a skin. it allows the player to be more creative

Thanks Guhracie =)
I looked, but failed to find the post where that was mentioned so stuck with what I knew for sure from an earlier post before the clarification.

If anyone can tell me for sure, because I can’t find this anywhere either, do we know if the toys attached to some of these town clothes are being changed in any way?
The toys are going to make the consideration of what to refund and what to not more complicated.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

AirimirOfGondor.9081:

…
I love to use my Wintersday town clothes on my human male, but I really hate how the hat looks on him. I much prefer the coolio aviator sunglasses that he is currently wearing.
I would be very disappointed if he always had to wear that hat. x_x

I do like the Mad King’s outfit on my Norn, but I would also like to show his face while wearing it. I would also be very disappointed if he had to wear the pumpkin head all the time. :/

A little added note here, Outfits will still respect the ‘hide helm’ toggle so you can absolutely wear Wintersday or Mad King outfit without the hat or pumpkin.

Here it is!

@videoboy

Please let me try get this straight. Your whole position seems to be that NPCs wear Town Clothing into battle, so that means we should be able to wear Town Clothing into battle too.

Let us assume (although there is nothing to prove it) that the NPCs you mention are in garb that would be called “Town Clothing” if it were available to players.

SO WHAT?

What is the argument? If you want to say that those NPCs fight in Town Clothes, fine; those NPCs fight in Town Clothes. You will be able to fight in Town Clothes too after the 15th. We can fight in Town Clothes NOW (Costume Brawl). Peasants will run out of the fields and fight with pitchforks wearing their town clothes. It is very believable that you don’t have to be in armor in order to fight. You are correct! And we have repeatedly stated we are not against wearing Town Clothes into combat.

So what’s your problem? What’s your argument? I really don’t see why you keep yakking about NPCs wearing Town Clothes into combat. What is the point of it all? You are shooting with no target.

We are against the way this is being implemented. It is directly affecting the wallets of many people, which is always a hot-button issue. With time, we may see more cusomizability (mix ‘n’ match) again, but we have already put a lot of time and effort into achieving our goal. All of that is being thrust aside as if it meant nothing. THAT is the big issue in this thread. The way this change is being instituted is hurting people that have invested lots of time and money in the game. NOBODY cares if your precious NPCs are fighting in Town Clothing or not. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Hamfast.8719:

@videoboy

Please let me try get this straight. Your whole position seems to be that NPCs wear Town Clothing into battle, so that means we should be able to wear Town Clothing into battle too.

Let us assume (although there is nothing to prove it) that the NPCs you mention are in garb that would be called “Town Clothing” if it were available to players.

SO WHAT?

What is the argument? If you want to say that those NPCs fight in Town Clothes, fine; those NPCs fight in Town Clothes. You will be able to fight in Town Clothes too after the 15th. We can fight in Town Clothes NOW (Costume Brawl). Peasants will run out of the fields and fight with pitchforks wearing their town clothes. It is very believable that you don’t have to be in armor in order to fight. You are correct! And we have repeatedly stated we are not against wearing Town Clothes into combat.

So what’s your problem? What’s your argument? I really don’t see why you keep yakking about NPCs wearing Town Clothes into combat. What is the point of it all? You are shooting with no target.

We are against the way this is being implemented. It is directly affecting the wallets of many people, which is always a hot-button issue. With time, we may see more cusomizability (mix ‘n’ match) again, but we have already put a lot of time and effort into achieving our goal. All of that is being thrust aside as if it meant nothing. THAT is the big issue in this thread. The way this change is being instituted is hurting people that have invested lots of time and money in the game. NOBODY cares if your precious NPCs are fighting in Town Clothing or not. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

If you had bothered to read the post of mine that Sonia initially replied to, which you obviously didn’t before jumping in, you’d know the answer to your question. However, you didn’t bother. Neither did she.

Another poster entirely, took the position that Town Clothes shouldn’t be allowed in combat, and used the claim that the game made a distinction between what Tyrians fouht in and what they only wore in town. I responded to that person and pointed out why there was a precedent set in this same game, that goes against that position and named numerous NPCs that were designed to fight and did so in Town Clothes. (I later mentioned the fact that fighting in Costumes/Outfits has existed since Guild Wars.)

And, without reading Sonia replied to me with a straw man argument about NPCs never changing clothes. That’s nice (and true) but had nothing to do with people fighting in normal clothing in Tyria.

I’m totally bored with this whole conversation, so if you still can’t comprehend what I’m saying, then I guess you just won’t be able to and I shouldn’t bother any longer.

TL;DR: One poster said it went against the game to fight in Town Clothes. I pointed out to him why it didn’t.

And FYI: A few of those Town Clothes that you so cutely try to claim are Armor, were actually Town Clothes in Beta.

videoboy.4162:

If you had bothered to read the post of mine that Sonia initially replied to, which you obviously didn’t before jumping in, you’d know the answer to your question. However, you didn’t bother. Neither did she.

Yes. Right. We never read it. Uh-huh. Sure. It’s obvious.

videoboy.4162:

And FYI: A few of those Town Clothes that you so cutely try to claim are Armor, were actually Town Clothes in Beta.

Sorry I was so cute. I never said they were armor. I DID say they looked like they could easily belong to the various armor weights though. YOU stated unequivocally that they were Town Clothes. I participated in the betas too and never saw anyone wearing different Town Clothes. I would still love to see some proof of your claim. No – scratch that. It still makes no difference whatsover to the main concerns of this thread.

videoboy.4162:

I’m totally bored with this whole conversation

You have finally come around to my side!

Well, that seems to have been one giant clusterflux of miscommunication. I suggest we get back to the topic at hand.

Would it be possible to keep the Town Clothes system in place until a better solution has been reached, and simply let people choose whether they want to use previously-purchased Town Clothes as the new Outfits, as armor skins (for the “surprising number” that have already been made into armor skins), or keep them as Town Clothes? (I don’t think anyone would take the “I would like this thing I bought to be turned into a tonic” option, of course. :P) It would be a stopgap solution, simply to tide us over until something less dumb can be implemented. (I have a few suggestions regarding that myself but am putting things together in a video that’s been taking a while, and any ideas therein would take a good bit of time to implement— but would be far more profitable and satisfying to all parties in the end.)

I know this update is supposed to streamline a lot of things. But there’s such a thing as too much streamlining. Really ANet, I don’t think it would be that damaging to y’all’s artistic vision or whatever to just let people keep Town Clothes and have a slightly less streamlined system of apparel going on until y’all can fix this.

I think the real crux of the matter is this: Town Clothes and Outfits are two entirely different things, but y’all are trying very hard to act as though Outfits are simply a new and “improved” version of Town Clothes, not something that is designed for an entirely different market with an entirely different purpose. (And Tonics don’t even remotely resemble Town Clothes, so attempting to replace Town Clothes with Tonics is simply insulting and cannot, by any metric at all, be considered an improvement.) The only thing they have in common is that they are “not armor.” And, well, LOTS of things are also “not armor.” Like tonics. And chickens. And pie. So while Outfits might be a great thing, they are a different thing, and it’s very short-sighted to act as though people who paid for one thing would actually be satisfied with it being replaced by that entirely different thing.

tl;dr Town Clothes and Outfits are not equivalent, so just let us keep Town Clothes until you can figure out something that would be a legitimate improvement on them and not merely removing them from the game while adding a different thing to the game.

Town clothes and outfits are actually now equivalent, it’s just people don’t want them to be.

If you were Anet, would you really keep the old one AND introduce a new one? I’m not sure that makes sense. Think long term.

Two, three, four years from now,. what’s the real benefit to keeping the old system, when a new one is replacing it?

Twyll Blackleaf.9641:

Snipped

Speaking from a technological standpoint, Twyll, I don’t think it’s possible for them to roll out the Wardrobe and keep Town Clothes going under the old system. The new TC system is already built into the Wardrobe and taking it out/trying to turn that particular piece off, would most likely break the entire Wardrobe.

I think our best bet, is to hope that they’re listening(reading) to everyone and that they take the time to convert the Town Clothes that became Tonics into Armor Skins. I’m not sure if they would do that with Outfits (though I would hope so) since Outfits existed before the Wardrobe anyway.

Nage.1520:

Town clothes and outfits are actually now equivalent, it’s just people don’t want them to be.

If you were Anet, would you really keep the old one AND introduce a new one? I’m not sure that makes sense. Think long term.

Two, three, four years from now,. what’s the real benefit to keeping the old system, when a new one is replacing it?

They’re not the same thing, but ANet is trying to make them look equivalent by making Outfits that resemble things that were once Town Clothes. Their function, however, is entirely different. Town Clothes allow a highly customizable non-combat look. Outfits allow minimally customizable combat look. Just because there will be Outfit skins that look like some full sets of Town Clothes does not make them a new version of Town Clothes, because they function in entirely different ways and have different characteristics. So whatever ANet intends them to be, the result is that they are not similar enough. One does not build upon the other. Intent does not equal results.

I am thinking long-term in that I say they should keep Town Clothes only until they can manage something better. (I mentioned in my post that it would be a stopgap measure, yes? Not permanent, not present a year down the road.) Ideally, “something better” is an Outfits system that provides a proper paper doll and not just one slot. That would integrate Town Clothes with the Outfits system by retaining their original functionality (mix and match and dyeing individually), but also allow Outfits to be used in combat— making them a true successor to Town Clothes with their own benefits, not a separate thing. Obviously this will take time to implement the improved system, and more time to turn each piece of Town Clothing into a separate piece of Outfit, hence the benefit of keeping Town Clothes around until we can have that second paper doll back.

In future, if they never want to release another set of clothing that’s all in separate pieces, that’s fine; they can just do things like the Bloody Prince Thorn set that eclipses the rest of the paper doll. But they would still keep the potential to make a mix-and-matchable look, if some of their designers ever do decide to do something in separate pieces; and then they could charge more money for sets of Outfit pieces (which take longer to make than indivisible ones), reflecting the extra effort they had to put in to make each different piece. When mining picks became account-bound and thus gained more value than the soulbound ones, they increased the price to match; I don’t see why multiple-piece Outfits should be any different, because they increase in value due to being more customizable while still useable in combat. This gives us more flexibility in what we can use, and themselves more flexibility in what they can design. They just have to invest the time and money to build the infrastructure for it so they can benefit from it in the end, and put in a stopgap to keep people happy while they work on it.

Sorry for the double post; I suck at not wall-o-texting.

videoboy.4162:

Speaking from a technological standpoint, Twyll, I don’t think it’s possible for them to roll out the Wardrobe and keep Town Clothes going under the old system. The new TC system is already built into the Wardrobe and taking it out/trying to turn that particular piece off, would most likely break the entire Wardrobe.

I think our best bet, is to hope that they’re listening(reading) to everyone and that they take the time to convert the Town Clothes that became Tonics into Armor Skins. I’m not sure if they would do that with Outfits (though I would hope so) since Outfits existed before the Wardrobe anyway.

It might be difficult to implement, but since all the assets for the Town Clothing system already exist, it would probably be simpler to re-implement it for a short time while they work on a better fix than to turn every single piece of Town Clothing into a piece of Armor one by one. They wouldn’t even have to exist as skins within the Wardrobe— they could just be items like they already are. Those that have been put into the Wardrobe would be icing on the cake, of course, since they’re already there— and they’d be able to sell more of them, too, because of their increased usefulness as both a Wardrobe skin and as a piece of Town Clothing. But the tonic’d ones would just stay as items that live in the inventory (just as tonics are items that live in the inventory), no need to add them to the Wardrobe until a better system has been designed down the road.

I don’t think it would necessarily be feasible to turn every piece of Town Clothing into a piece of Armor, but it should be feasible to turn every piece of Town Clothing into a piece of Outfit and create an Outfit paper doll akin to the old Town Clothing one, rather than just a single slot. That way they don’t have to worry about making them compatible with other Armor. They just have to be compatible with themselves, which they already are, although the meshes would have to be redone to work in combat. So, reworking, but no redesign or incongruous combinations of armor and froofy skirts. They would get to stay internally consistent. And that would mean they could re-release all the individual Town Clothing items they took out of the Gem Store that are being turned into Tonics, because they’d become useable again. That would not only appease people who bought them and who would want to see the fix (many of whom have become leery of giving ANet any more money), but allow new customers to buy more of them, so the time and money put into combining the original function of Town Clothes with the new function of Outfits would pay off in the form of more money.

And like I said, I have ideas regarding a better system they can be working on, but I’m still getting it organized into a coherent proposal that will hopefully be less wall-o-textish than my usual posts. It takes more time to write something concise but precise than it does to write something wordy, when you’re trying to be as detailed and explicit as possible to prevent miscommunication.

I’m really grateful you are putting so much effort into the proposal Twyll. Your thoughts, observations, and suggestions thus far have been incredibly helpful from my perspective. Will we get to see your final iteration of the proposal? Is there anything we can do to help?

I was wondering if you can use the outfits on wvw also, or only pve?

Nage.1520:

Town clothes should have never been in the game in the first place. It should have all been armor pieces and you should have been able to buy them piecemeal.

Anet made a major mistake putting town clothes in the game as they did. It wasn’t compatible with the armor.

I disagree. I love my town clothes. As town clothes. Sounds like others do too. And since we are the ones who spent money on them we should be compensated in a way that is superior to how we are being treated.

Nage.1520:

Moving forward Anet will be able to create MORE town clothes that fit with the armors so you can mix and match your town clothes for real and where them where and whenever you want..

Anet said specifically that they are not doing this. They are making complete ‘outfits’ that cannot be mixed and matched with anything. It doesn’t matter how you slice it, we still lose.

ikke.9315:

I was wondering if you can use the outfits on wvw also, or only pve?

You use the same armor in WvW as you do in PvE now so I dont see why it would change.

Risa Aerulight.3914:

I’m really grateful you are putting so much effort into the proposal Twyll. Your thoughts, observations, and suggestions thus far have been incredibly helpful from my perspective. Will we get to see your final iteration of the proposal? Is there anything we can do to help?

Aww, thank you! Of course what matters is if the right people at ANet will notice, and that all my speculation isn’t too far off base so any suggestions I make are actually germane to the issues at hand and not completely irrelevant to the actual problems, which they’re legally unable to tell us about; not that I’ll know until a few months down the road because they’re also probably legally unable to acknowledge any suggestions I make in case they decide to implement something even vaguely resembling them and I were to decide to sue (which I wouldn’t but of course I don’t exactly have a way of stating that in a legally binding manner)… I’m pretty sure the legal world of game development was designed by Vogons, is what I’m saying.

I’m going to try to get a video done and put up on Youtube shortly after the patch, because then I’ll be able to make some more informed suggestions, as well as using examples derived from my own screenshots and not just from the few screenshots we have in the preview of the Wardrobe system on the blog; and everyone will be able to give better feedback after having seen exactly what the patch will do, so we can focus more on constructive criticism and less on speculation (although for aforementioned legal reasons, speculation will of course be necessary as part of any suggestion that’s made). Any changes they try to make are going to take months to implement anyways. (The exception is if they managed to kludge together some way to keep Town Clothes around until they do fix things, but I sincerely doubt that’s happened.)

I don’t necessarily know that there’s anything anyone can do to help me personally except for a bit of moral support, which you’ve already accomplished quite admirably And, of course, we must all continue to give feedback on the whole situation as it develops, so ANet knows it’s not just a few people who are unhappy with this change, but a lot of their paying customers— and we need to make the “paying customers” part clear. That’s the only way that any dev who actually does want to fix the problem will be able to justify it to The Powers That Be At ANet to get resources with which to fix it: if we make it very clear that they have damaged our faith in their honesty regarding how they handle our money (given the fact that they’re still selling Town Clothes in the Gem Store under the old description and haven’t added anything to note that their function will be drastically altered in just a day), and it would be much better for their profit margins to repair that damaged trust if they want us to buy things from them in future. Maybe enough people expressing our dissatisfaction, our desire to be able to pay them money without having to doubt whether we’ll get to keep what we pay for, and our desire to pay them more money in future if they’ll only put the effort into making products that are actually useful to us, will speed the process along as it trudges through the AoE Cripple field of bureaucracy.

You’re welcome, I’m glad it was helpful in the moral support area, and I agree yet again with your points. I had almost forgotten about the legal issues with making suggestions. I’m not a legal expert but I would think it may be helpful to add a signed and dated statement at the end that authorizes Anet to utilize anything they wish from your proposal.
I have had several browsing sessions through the GW2.dat file and inspected several elements up close. I am a 3D animator, I know some graphic design, and I am a video editor skilled in music video creation. I have a wide skill and software set if you need assistance with the video, and I have a husband who is good at verbal communication if you want an extra proof-reader. I also have a guild-mate/irl friend who is a web programmer should something really crazy be needed =) This is just so you know what extra tools are at your disposal. You’ve demonstrated that you and your boyfriend have well trained skills, think clearly and thoroughly about all sides of an issue, and can communicate well your final conclusions. This inspires confidence and leaves me at the least, very comfortable with adding my group’s skills to yours. It would be a shock if Anet can’t find anything helpful in your final proposal.

Why do you make me and my kitty cry, arena.net? I want to keep my lovely ear muffs … how else am I supposed to keep my ears warm in the winter?

Here is their last word:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Customer-Support-and-the-Feature-Pack

They’re refunding tonics, outfits and duplicates. Just that.

Not a single chance to see the clothes which were made into tonics work as outfits, or a word saying “We will consider it”.

Just an “If you don’t like it, get your gems back and stop complaining”.

This is so disheartening I can’t even

Guess I have until June to decide if I want to keep the tonics out of sentimental value or send everything to hell and get gems… to buy useless things from their Gem store again (or trade them so other people buys them). Sigh….

At least we can get rid of the outfits and tonics if we don’t like how they work, I guess somehow they listened to us. I HATE the idea, but they deserve we all asked refunds for them. Even if I don’t plan to do it by now…

Allaraina.8614:

Nage.1520:

Town clothes should have never been in the game in the first place. It should have all been armor pieces and you should have been able to buy them piecemeal.

Anet made a major mistake putting town clothes in the game as they did. It wasn’t compatible with the armor.

I disagree. I love my town clothes. As town clothes. Sounds like others do too. And since we are the ones who spent money on them we should be compensated in a way that is superior to how we are being treated.

Nage.1520:

Moving forward Anet will be able to create MORE town clothes that fit with the armors so you can mix and match your town clothes for real and where them where and whenever you want..

Anet said specifically that they are not doing this. They are making complete ‘outfits’ that cannot be mixed and matched with anything. It doesn’t matter how you slice it, we still lose.

Anet said specifically they’re not makeing more “town clohtes”. That’s because town clothes per se, don’t exist now, except as an outfit.

You are hung up on the word town clohtes, so you’re not seeing what I"m saying. There is nothing to stop Anet from introducing stuff that looks like town clothes now, that goes into armor slots. Nothing at all.

Sonia.7910:

Guess I have until June to decide if I want to keep the tonics out of sentimental value or send everything to hell and get gems… to buy useless things from their Gem store again (or trade them so other people buys them). Sigh….

At least we can get rid of the outfits and tonics if we don’t like how they work, I guess somehow they listened to us. I HATE the idea, but they deserve we all asked refunds for them. Even if I don’t plan to do it by now…

Just ask for it now. Waiting just lessens the impact for them compared to everyone asking now. If they change the system down the line (again) to make it more in line with what we wanted, do you really think they’ll give up the chance to make those sales again? The stuff you want will be available for sale again if that happens. But they probably won’t fix it, so don’t hold your breath.

You can always convert the refunded gems to gold and fill out the rest of your wardrobe.

I’ll repeat what I just said in another thread because it directly concerns the town clothes issue:

I’m not gaining a single thing from this town clothes change. I’ve never felt the desire to use town clothes in battle and won’t do so in the future. I’m not looking forward to see people wearing christmas hats in battle with dragons, it’s not exactly helpful for immersion. My idea of immersion is to wear practical / cool / mighty looking armor to battle, and then comfortable / stylish / flavour clothes in the town or while RP-ing. Sadly, I seem to be in the minority, and arena.net decided that they can’t make a profit off of people like me, so they’ll target those who want to fight Tequatl while wearing a bikini and sunglasses. Fine, but at least let me state my strong disagreement with this.

Also, this change could be handled a lot better than it is. Why not let players at least modify the tonic they’ll get? Why can’t I choose between a “Wintersday dress + hat” tonic, and a “Wintersday dress + Earmuffs” tonic?

There is not a single reason for why this is not being done, except that it’s apparently too much work for a target audience they don’t care for. Which is why I’m feeling very bitter about this.
Especially considering that I was a paying customer, I and many others did spend our money on the town clothes they were selling and used them in ways we liked. Now arena.net essentially tells us that they don’t care about us, our money isn’t good enough for them, and instead they try to target players who up until now did NOT spend money on town clothes, in the hopes that they might buy them once they’re useable in combat. And that’s why I / we feel disrespected.

I haven’t had any energy to take screenshots but I sorted my inventory at one point…

My collection of all the awesome fluff including clothes… soon to be much less so. :/

(My other account is identical save for a different boom box, which ever account this is and which ever boom box… I have no idea /tired)

Kojast.6304:

Sonia.7910:

Guess I have until June to decide if I want to keep the tonics out of sentimental value or send everything to hell and get gems… to buy useless things from their Gem store again (or trade them so other people buys them). Sigh….

At least we can get rid of the outfits and tonics if we don’t like how they work, I guess somehow they listened to us. I HATE the idea, but they deserve we all asked refunds for them. Even if I don’t plan to do it by now…

Just ask for it now. Waiting just lessens the impact for them compared to everyone asking now. If they change the system down the line (again) to make it more in line with what we wanted, do you really think they’ll give up the chance to make those sales again? The stuff you want will be available for sale again if that happens. But they probably won’t fix it, so don’t hold your breath.

You can always convert the refunded gems to gold and fill out the rest of your wardrobe.

We can’t ask for a refund until May the 12th, if I didn’t misread the announcement. But it would be nice if they bothered to give us a clue about whether they /might/ convert the tonics into outfit in the future or they have already decided they don’t give a penny about it and won’t even try. That would help a lot in my decission.

The fact that they’re refunding duplicate skins, though, is very good news. I don’t have any, but I understand how disappointed might have been for those who bought two or more.

Traced.3495:

I haven’t had any energy to take screenshots but I sorted my inventory at one point…

My collection of all the awesome fluff including clothes… soon to be much less so. :/

(My other account is identical save for a different boom box, which ever account this is and which ever boom box… I have no idea /tired)

Looks to be about $60 worth of town clothing (Not including the toys). -Flush-
Goodbye $60! Anet appreciates your kind donation.

I have every single outfit or piece of town clothing that was ever available except the wintersday outfit. A lot of the single pieces (like the shorts, hoodies, and blouses) I have many multiples of. I even have duplicates of some of my preferred variants. I have duplicates of some of the outfits too. I’m not super happy right now. Not. Happy.

I feel like I want to go hulk mode and choke-throw a midget through 10 walls of office at a hypothetical Insurance Claim company that I don’t work for.

Sonia, they said not to ask for refunds on dyes until May 12 because they are automatically giving us gem store dyes that we have duplicates learned on our alts, and that process will take until then.

For clothing, you can submit the ticket even before the patch. If you’re that sure the replacement Outfits/Tonics will be flat out unusable, anyway. Me, I’m waiting to see how they work before I give up all my fancy country shirts and vests, as maaaaybe they’ll restore them in the future and then what do I do? Say "Yeah, you gave me a bunch of gems back for those, but now I want those things back without spending more gems??

Sonia.7910:

Here is their last word:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Customer-Support-and-the-Feature-Pack

They’re refunding tonics, outfits and duplicates. Just that.

Not a single chance to see the clothes which were made into tonics work as outfits, or a word saying “We will consider it”.

Just an “If you don’t like it, get your gems back and stop complaining”.

This is so disheartening I can’t even

Technically, that was word from Support; even if anyone from ANet were allowed to divulge future plans outside very specific, carefully structured releases of information, I don’t think anyone in Support would be able to say anything on the matter simply because they wouldn’t necessarily know— so I don’t think that’s necessarily really a “final word” on anything. So that’s not so disheartening at least!

We can also be a bit undisheartened (reheartened?) by the fact that they did in fact take into account the problems people had with the Outfits themselves and not just the tonics, and stated how they would deal with the issue quite clearly. This is a demonstration, however small, of the fact that at least some folks at ANet are taking our feedback into account— even though they might not necessarily be coordinating terribly well in their efforts to respond. After all, I agree that refunds on Outfitized Town Clothes are all well and good, but not terribly helpful until we get some information on whether it’s possible that they might be fixed eventually. Unfortunately Support can only really give us the former, and it’s from other devs that we must seek the latter.

ok so can I get refund for all of my town clothes now? omg. I am so upset with this change. I was going to be “ok” with it if the town clothes were dyeable but its not!. ugh…