Guild Wars 2

On Tuesday, it will be TWO CALENDAR MONTHS between the patch and one single confirmation from Anet that they even acknowledge our concerns.

If they don’t care about their customers anymore, I don’t care so much about the providers.

Personally I like the new trait system. Hunting/questing for traits is enjoyable, especially when I get a trait by accident (those are the best).

However the one glaring flaw in this system is requiring a lvl 30 trait be found in a much higher level zone. If they just took the time to rework the difficulty and locations of these traits, it would be a good system.

Azhure.1857:

…
However the one glaring flaw in this system is requiring a lvl 30 trait be found in a much higher level zone. If they just took the time to rework the difficulty and locations of these traits, it would be a good system.

No that would not be a good system. It would be a major step in the right direction, but a good system would also include having the trait tiers revert back to level 11 (or 15 if using the new trait points) for adept, level 40 for master and level 60 for grand master. A great system would have the unlock quests in a pool of quests, any one would unlock any trait for that tier.

There is more wrong with this new system than just the difficulty of the quests for the level of trait. Granted that is a big problem but not the only one. I like the idea of quests to unlock traits but not the way they implemented it.

I have bring my friends to this game. new traits make them very tired to play several hours for unlock those ridiculous traits. Now they don’t want to play this anymore and blame me suggest such a bad game.

In a sense the new system is “ok” but what about us with alts that have already beat the game multiple times and have already explored everything and just want to make alts to take to wvw and or dungeons? I think if someone is starting out it’s fine, but forcing us to go through the whole game again and backtrack wasting hours just trying to get a handful of traits is not fun at all it feels like a chore, the system was fine before where you just paid a small amount of gold and that’s it you could play your character, but now you have to spend hours upon hours just to be able to actually use your character in end game content. I feel like the old system should be reimplemented, the prices for the traits are around 40g and a lot of skill points now which only used to cost around 6g which is nuts! Please change this Anet i have two alts just sitting there.

Three suggestions to help:

1. Float XIII traits so that they will still require a Grandemaster slot but they won’t be attached to a particular trait line. They are supposed to improve diversity this will allow them to.
2. Put more scrolls into the game that allow people with 80s who have alts level. Change that level to 35 not 20. That would get them past the beginning, give them more options for more xp to level, and it will bypass those who have been through the content multiple times the ability to make alts easily.
3. Make sure all classes have the same capabilities for basic combat, like the ability to remove conditions. If one class has a timed condition removal trait all should have access to a similar trait. If one class has a 25% run speed skill all classes should have that option either in traits or skills. For example, give Engineers the same choice to have an autoremoval of 1 condition at an interval when under the affects of regeneration (which is the healing skill used most often by Engineer support builds) just like what’s available for Guardians/Rangers. If Mesmers have an ability that almost instakills an enemy to better fascilitate a Rally than Engineers’ Booby Trap should do the same kind of thing to allow a Rally.

This would balance the game properly, you’d be fulfilling the statement that no class is left behind in combat design and then you could focus your efforts on better ui updates without people complaining as much about things that should have been taken care of a year ago on class design.

When I heard I’d be able to change traits at will, I was ecstatic. It’s a wonderful idea that would allow people to try new builds and refine their character in the fly. I absolutely love it… on my pre-patch level 80.

My new alts, however, do not get this luxury. Unless I have spent time doing very specific things that Anet has chosen, I can’t swap traits on the fly, because I don’t have any. On a new character these changes have overridden each other, making it even harder than before to swap traits. Pre-patch, it was only a few silver to have all your traits available to you again. Now? Hours and hours of work. I love this game, but I don’t even want to level a new character anymore because of how overwhelmed I am with all this

Many players enjoy GW2 because they choose how they want to level up, not the game company. This change does not abide by this philosophy at all. I hope that Anet will take my and others’ reactions into account and consider changing this new system to better align with their overall philosophies.

I do not like the change. It’s fine if your toon was grandfathered in, but for all new toons, you almost have to do map completion just to unlock your traits. Running all over every map waiting for very specific events to go up is the polar opposite of fun. I will just buy all the traits, but if you don’t have extra skill points and gold (if you’re new for example) then you’re stuck with a few garbage traits.

XApocalypse.8739:

In a sense the new system is “ok” but what about us with alts that have already beat the game multiple times and have already explored everything and just want to make alts to take to wvw and or dungeons? I think if someone is starting out it’s fine, but forcing us to go through the whole game again and backtrack wasting hours just trying to get a handful of traits is not fun at all it feels like a chore, the system was fine before where you just paid a small amount of gold and that’s it you could play your character, but now you have to spend hours upon hours just to be able to actually use your character in end game content. I feel like the old system should be reimplemented, the prices for the traits are around 40g and a lot of skill points now which only used to cost around 6g which is nuts! Please change this Anet i have two alts just sitting there.

As frustrating as it may be, the gold sink does make sense – As we’re in desperate need of more gold sinks. :/

Azhure.1857:

As frustrating as it may be, the gold sink does make sense – As we’re in desperate need of more gold sinks. :/

You forget about those who stopped making alts because of this really bad new system.
How much is a character slot?
How much does it cost to outfit an alt?
Will new players want to go thru the pain again to make an alt?

Personally I think most making alts will spend less on them because there is no longer experimentation. Level as fast as you can and get only what you need. Possibly anti-gold sink here.

Easy fix…. REVERT!

Daggos Skelito.2910:

You forget about those who stopped making alts because of this really bad new system.
How much is a character slot?
How much does it cost to outfit an alt?
Will new players want to go thru the pain again to make an alt?

Personally I think most making alts will spend less on them because there is no longer experimentation. Level as fast as you can and get only what you need. Possibly anti-gold sink here.

Easy fix…. REVERT!

I absolutely agree. I am an alt-o-holic. My favourite activity in the game is levelling. Am at 10 lvl 80s by now, since I like to take my time.
The new levelling system discourages me greatly from making a new char. My second ele was 73 when the change happened and bringing her to 80 was considerably less fun than pre-patch. Worst for me is the Grandmaster trait moved to 80. While levelling I tend to try different builds as I go up, how much they suit me in playing. Can’t do that anymore. Plus, levelling up is not an achievement anymore. Nothing happens except your gear getting worse.
My last charslot is a keyfarm, because I could not be bothered to make a new one.

So yes, you are right, therew is at least one person who stopped making new chars.

And I did too.

And deleted the two post-patch low-level alts I had made (And one pre-patch, because he was WAY too low-level)

I’m back on this thread, leveling a new character at the moment and I want to express that I’m still very disappointed by the new traits system. As many before me have stated, the new trait system does not only make your character weaker, but also makes it very frustrating to unlock traits, to experiment around with your build or to change it accordingly to the situation. At times, those few points that you could get in one trait line or another could be game changing during leveling. Now, it’s just grind all the way to 80 without even thinking for your traits, it kills the pleasure of actually thinking where it’d be good to allocate a few points and where not.

I had plans for a new alt (and I would’ve purchased the character slot). Had a cash shop outfit picked out, too. However, between this horrible trait system and the fact that the new Living Story season will be 80s-only, Anet has sucked too much fun out of making and leveling alts for me.

The new trait system is indeed horrible. It made levelling alts less fun and a lot more expensive.

The only good thing was the ability to refund traits anywhere. But I would gladly give that up if that means getting the old system back.

I love it. It’s how it should have been all along.

Beginners are guided around the world (and the wiki and dulfy) and can unlock all the traits one by one.
People that have been around for a while will prolly be bored of all the same tasks (jk everyone’s doing farming runs all day anyway) and just dish out some coin for the traits they know they will need/like.

I don’t agree with when the different tiers are unlocked, but that’s really minor.

tl/dr A huge leap in the right direction. Smooth out the timing of unlocking trait-tiers and it’s A+

Bawi.9541:

I love it. It’s how it should have been all along.

Beginners are guided around the world (and the wiki and dulfy) and can unlock all the traits one by one.
People that have been around for a while will prolly be bored of all the same tasks (jk everyone’s doing farming runs all day anyway) and just dish out some coin for the traits they know they will need/like.

I don’t agree with when the different tiers are unlocked, but that’s really minor.

tl/dr A huge leap in the right direction. Smooth out the timing of unlocking trait-tiers and it’s A+

Implying that there’s one particular way to be “guided” through the world. Or that there weren’t already systems in place to do that (ie Personal Storyline).

Anyway, having to unlock traits isn’t necessarily a problem, it’s just implemented really poorly here. Unlocks are really unbalanced and don’t take the value of the trait to an individual class into consideration, it’s just a flat X event is X trait in X line across all classes. A tier-locked point that can be spent on whatever traits you like would be a potential fix here.

Also it’s not as easy as just “dishing out coin.” Especially for alts, as you would be required to grind up an exorbitant amount of skill points to unlock all traits. The character that I did WORLD COMPLETION with didn’t have nearly enough for this by the time I was done, and there are other things that require them.

No matter how you slice it, this system—in its present state of execution—is a tremendous inconvenience to new and old players that limits build diversity and needlessly backloads the leveling process.

I… Like the new system, but all my alts were grandfathered in so no worries of trait gate.

I am not sure if you guys with the grandfathered alts tried playing the game, but I seriously thought the game is very enjoyable exploring and leveling without even caring one bit about building my character traits. I spent more time doing the quest and hearts then staring at hexagonal shapes. Now, I also cannot speak for you guys. Maybe I just don’t care enough to really worry about these updates.

The game is easier now, all the mobs die fast. I can’t understand the weaker character aspect… But I also don’t PvP or go heavy into WvW when it comes to my alts. Can’t comment on that.

I have 3 lv 80, 1 lv 40, 1 lv 28, 1 lv 18, and a lv 5.

Before the patch I just rush for the lvl 80 through wvw trains anyway so it’s not like I sat there and got excited over each trait point…

My 2c, probably worthless in a thread like this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not saying anyone is wrong, just my views on the new update. I come in peace.

Gomssi.7246:

I… Like the new system, but all my alts were grandfathered in so no worries of trait gate.

I am not sure if you guys with the grandfathered alts tried playing the game, but I seriously thought the game is very enjoyable exploring and leveling without even caring one bit about building my character traits. I spent more time doing the quest and hearts then staring at hexagonal shapes. Now, I also cannot speak for you guys. Maybe I just don’t care enough to really worry about these updates.

The game is easier now, all the mobs die fast. I can’t understand the weaker character aspect… But I also don’t PvP or go heavy into WvW when it comes to my alts. Can’t comment on that.

I have 3 lv 80, 1 lv 40, 1 lv 28, 1 lv 18, and a lv 5.

Before the patch I just rush for the lvl 80 through wvw trains anyway so it’s not like I sat there and got excited over each trait point…

My 2c, probably worthless in a thread like this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not saying anyone is wrong, just my views on the new update. I come in peace.

It’s fine, in my opinion, for the alts who’ve been grandfathered in. That’s not my major issue with the system. (I know there are plenty who have said that the change to how many and when we get trait points is negatively impacting their game experience, though) I like the new interface and the ability to change my traits on the fly, and I, personally, don’t have a problem leveling without traits.

But they really need to rework how traits are obtained. I know there are those claiming that this is providing a gold sink, but come on. From 2g70s to 40g and 340 skill points or a checklist of 65 seemingly arbitrary tasks. How is that reasonable? That’s roughly a 550% increase… just for the coin currency.

The changes in the recent patch where a baby step in the right direction but to be honest the system is still a long way away from ever being as good as the old one.

I said it before the new system stinks of them trying to prevent people from levelling solely by crafting. But by trying to fix one problem they have caused alot of others as when you start reducing the levelling diversity it is no different than being directed by quests and told what you need to do like in other games.

I still dislike the whole unlocking traits individually and I also dislike moving when you obtain traits to lvl 30 and then every 6 levels after that. The reason being is that the game already restricts how many skills you can have on your bar so traits was that other diverse way to keep players interested by experimenting and feeling progression etc. When you start restricting traits and increasing when you get points there is no small sense of reward for progressing your character.

In other games when you level a character you look to see what new skills you achieved or place points in strength, dexterity etc to improve your character. In this game there is no skills trainer so the only other form was traits and when you take that progression away it makes levelling your character feel very stagnant. The only other game that I felt this way was STO as when you levelled you felt like nothing was changing until 10 levels later you got a new ship, it made levelling very tedious.

Will there be more changes to the current system? Yes I believe there will be changes I doubt they will ever roll it back as its rare that a developer admits they made a mistake and it’s even rarer that they roll back that mistake. My guess is there will be a good few months of tweaks to the system but it will never be back to the system that I knew and had fun with.

The reason I enjoyed levelling in GW2 was because I could decide how I wanted to level when I logged in each day without feeling any worse off because of it. That has changed because now if I decide I want to level by crafting or I want to run in EOTM to level up I will always be missing traits until I decide to either do the event required or buy them.

Without changing the system back and to continue to do tweaks I hope they aren’t cutting off their noses to spite their face. We will soon see how much of a detrimental effect this new system has on player retention for both old and new.

I just gave it one good try on my new warrior, managed to unlock the 1st 3 traits in the power tree (yes I did the obsidian jumping puzzle for a kittenty blue trait). But then, when I read what the next trait on the list required me to do, I just gave up. Defeat Rhendak the Crazed. Defeat Rhendak the Crazed? Are you kittening serious? Go through one of the most stupid and convoluted “dungeon puzzles” (that requires a group to complete btw) to unlock a kittening blue trait?

What. The. kitten.

No one at anet plays this game. No one. I refuse to believe anyone in this kittening company plays the game they are peddling. They are all too busy designing gemstore outfits to give a kitten anymore.

Rousing Resilience: Gain up to 1000 toughness when you break out of a stun, based on your level.

This warrior trait that was added is highly specific and situational. Seems like only viable to use in PVP. Most other new traits seem to have use also in PVE. I don’t really see a time in PVE where I would ever want to use this trait. Why not make something that is more consistently useful rather than very rarely useful? Even in PVP use this will be rarely used.

@Iki: To be fair, Rhendak can be soloed with ranged abilities (though it takes long) because his AI is ultra bad. But I understand where you’re coming from and agree that a change to the unlocking system has to be made.

So, when is ANet going to admit this was a bad idea and put it back the way it’s supposed to be?

The trait changes made leveling a new character even more tedious that it was before.

Congrats on your accomplishment, ANet.

sablephoenix.1593:

So, when is ANet going to admit this was a bad idea and put it back the way it’s supposed to be?

Given that the only ANET interaction this thread has had is from community moderators, I suspect it’ll be another two months, at least.

The ranger that I started in order to experience the new system is up to level 65! I have not unlocked a single trait in the course of normal play.

This was one of the worst ideas Arena net has recently had. I am a WvW player, after reaching level 80 on a new char I had unlocked a total of 3 traits. To complete even 1 build I would either have to do PvE (which I really don’t like) or spend gold (that I don’t really have, because I don’t do PvE) not to mention the skill points that I just wouldn’t have if it wasn’t for the scrolls. The new char got benched, I will probably never level anything else and I am stuck with only 1 char that I actually play. I can’t try anything new. Because of that I cannot in clear conscience recommend this game to any of my friends, I just can’t promise that they would have any fun, if they have to spend hours after hours after reaching level 80 to even complete one talent build.

This level system it would make sense if we had kitten load of utilities and traits.

Azhure.1857:

As frustrating as it may be, the gold sink does make sense – As we’re in desperate need of more gold sinks. :/

It doesn’t make any sense. Yes we need gold sinks, but levelling chars are not the ones making obscene amounts of dough. Slapping newbs is not the way to go, atm it sinks more newbs than money.

I kinda like the idea of unlocking traits, but the whole thing just went so far overboard. My idea to take it down a notch:

• give points more often. Atm its easy to miss getting new points because the system trains you to expect nothing to happen at level up. Reward every leveling up.
• Blue traits should be open. When trait system is unlocked, you need to be able to explore it. Don’t unlock something that is locked, that feels like trolling.
• Balance the unlock conditions. There are ridiculous tasks in there for minor traits.
• keep PvP and WvW out of this, they are not PvE content. You can tell them to visit the corresponding maps to encourage play, but stop trying to force players to play your way.
• either remove skill points from the paywall, lower the needed skillpoints A LOT or just add a ton of ways to gain them during play. Gold is not the big barrier here. I can donate gold to a friend in need, but he’ll still need to get above 100 skillpoints somehow.
• Grandmaster traits need to unlock at 60 again. Latest 70. The whole point of forcing content was to let players learn, yet you prevent them from learning their final character until max level. I do not understand that decision.

TL;DR: The unlocking traits was a nice idea, but the implementation lacks refinement. It should add a sense of reward and accomplishment, but at the moment it takes away reward and adds arbitrary barriers.

Recently I leveled a new toon from 1 to 30 in Open PvE. When I hit 30 and saw, that for some adept traits I’d either have to go into Level 50 zones or into WvW or completing a dungeon, I immediately lost my interest in this toon and logged to another one.

Every player would recommend to reach Level 80 first and then go into dungeons. Same with WvW except Eotm. I prefer Open PvE over every other gameplay aspects GW2 offers. But now I’d have to do things that I don’t like or wait until max level or find a group who accepts a fifth wheel. gj -.-

ANet, if you want to encourage players to explore more aspects of the game, do not frustrate them with requirements for toon core aspects like traits, but by other incentives.

I think that the trait unlocks is the single worst game update that I’ve seen in my 9 years of following Anet.
I simply don’t see the reason. Why force people to do these things? Is it because all these events and areas were deserted? – if so, there probably was a reason (or several).

In other news I’ve now brought a character to level 70 in the new system, playing the way I find the least tedious – some crafting, some EotM train, a big part of the personal storyline (which, by the way, is bugged to hell in many, many chapters).
I have 7 traits. I play without them because they’re terrible and I’m better off slotting points into empty traitlines for the stats.

There we are. Over 2 Lunar months (not Calendar as I said earlier… ) and not even a response from Anet that acknowledges our concerns.

May as well stop posting now, Anet has shown that they don’t give a kitten.

I will throw in my paltry opinion here as well.

While this account is not “new.” I never made it to 80. I never really settled upon a class/race combo that I liked, so I would make a char, get up to 20 or 30 and after checking some trait and build combos, decided if I liked the class or not. If I didn’t, I just got rid of the character. I would not play for a few months, then come back, and do the process all over again. (This behavior is mostly due to me really liking the game/artstyle/lore, but my group of gaming friends not really getting into GW2, so I would stop playing this game to play with them.)

When this change took place, I had one character that I think qualified to be grandfathered in. A level 40something thief that I just never deleted. He was ok to play, but the playstyle wasn’t suiting me too much.

I decided to start anew, and made a guardian. But after I learned about the nature of unlocking traits individually (I had initially read about the trait changes, but figured it to be more of a slow down and didn’t quite understand the individual unlock part), I instantly went, “Wait… this is stupid.”

This guardian isn’t even 30 yet, I only stumbled on this after looking at the trainer for a moment and noticing individual traits for sale, which caused me to do a bit more research. While individually unlocking traits can be acceptable, the current method is enough to make me not want to even bother logging in at all. Skill point costs? I don’t know about most people, but I don’t imagine myself having extra skill points at 36 if I’m still trying to unlock an elite skill, and if the “quest” has me going to a level 50+ zone, then wtf is the point of it being a low tier trait?

God forbid anything gets nerfed into uselessness. Or if I want to change from a power to condition or bunker or support build. This system forces an individual to pick a build to level with (as he or she won’t have enough skill points to unlock more than one build), and then locks them into that build until they can farm/grind enough or unlock the traits they need for a new build. That is anti-experimentation. It is limiting as a player will make extra sure they are following a guide or the like so they don’t screw up something that is non-refundable (skill points).

And how good is unlocking at 80 anyway? I’ve heard in map chat of people openly admitting that if an inspection of gear or build in some dungeons isn’t up to whatever their standards may be, they’ll kick the poor guy, or just leave or however it works in this game.

This change appears to be the most anti-new player/alt change I have ever seen in a game. I have been playing online games for almost fifteen years (yep, back to the MUDD days), and this is easily #1 worst design philosophy ever.

Edit: clarifying my playing behavior pattern

Just watched the latest Livestream. They say they are constantly reading feedback and add things depending on that feedback.

Like hell they do.

Seems right now you have 2 options with this BAD trait system.
1) Level very slowly and have a bad build until you are much, much higher in level. You will have a hugh disavantage in the game till much later on.
2) Level as fast as you can then farm gold and skill points. Figure a meta build and just buy what you need.

Compare this to the old system that worked very well. Is this what you dev’s REALLY wanted??? If yes, can you explain why!

After some of the recent patch notes, I can tell they were trying to pay attention to some of the more egregious concerns, but… their execution of this system is still really flawed.

100% zone completion? That’s far too much work for one trait. 100% zone reputation completion isn’t nearly so nitpicky, is still a time investment, but a much less painful one. (It’s still boring, by the way. Heart quests, while useful, aren’t very fun most of the time.)

What trait thresholds should be:
1. Bring our traits points back in line to what they used to be. First point at 15, progress 1 every 5 levels. This gives us something to focus on besides leveling to 30 as we progress. It also avoids the arbitrary stacking of traits at 60+.
2. If you want us to “experiment” with builds, open them up sooner. Adept at 15, then next tier every 25-30 (Master/Grandmaster at 40/65 or 45/75).
3. Every task should be achievable as soon as the character opens that tier. Level 40-50 zone completion for adept traits is uneven (and feels insulting) in comparison to a 25-35 zone for the same tier of reward.
By the current system:
Adept tasks should be in roughly level 35 zones.
Master tasks should be in zones no higher than level 65.
Grandmaster tasks should be in level 70-80 zones.

Concession: I get that the new trait tier unlocks are based on using non-starter zones for tasks, so maybe it’s not necessary to revert entirely. Start with level 28 (yeah, yeah, people don’t like odd numbers, but get over it, starting at 11 old-school was still odd), then give us trait points every 4 levels. This puts the first Adept trait at level 32, still usable in dungeons (though a few levels late), and our last trait point hits at 80.
Open up Master at 50 (or 48 if you’re being precise about it), and open up Grandmaster at 70 (or 72 if you’re still being precise).

tl;dr Proposal:

Open traits at 28+1 per 4 levels, Master at 50, Grandmaster at 70.
Adept tasks from 25-35 only
Master tasks around level 50, no higher than 55.
Grandmaster tasks from 70-80.

just gona bump this so the devs are forced to see it…

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

just gona bump this so the devs are forced to see it…

1188 posts so far. They have seen it, but for some reason aren’t responding. I can only guess that there is some politics in the company that is preventing open communication. Same with SAB (we actually kind of saw that in action), and with several other topics.

So, to whomever it may concern. I am a customer who finds the lack of communication problematic to the extent of making me less inclined to buy gems, or recommend the game to others.

I know they have seen it but I want to keep it in their face every time they look at this forum =p

unfortunately I only just started this game at the beginning of the year and only managed to pump out 3 lvl 80s…. I was aiming to get 1 of each class to 80 but with the cost and time(I still need 350 or so skill points wtf) just to get one to lvl 80 with its traits and utilities… that is not gona happen. if only they removed the skill points then it wouldn’t matter =C

I would not mind if I just had to run around and do some heart quests etc but wvw, dungeons, world bosses kitten off you even need to do entire area completions for one trait, its just bad

the lack of lengthy grinding before you can have fun is what drew me to this game… that is gone and so will many of their customers be, gl getting people to join wildstar after this.

I’ve made suggestions to folks to take their posts to reddit. From the very beginning it seems the devs and the people in charge are only interested in what’s said there. If we open threads in reddit about the economy, the traits system, the lack of trinity, the low diversity, the imbalance they are more apt to see it there and it would reach a wider audience out there so they’d see these issues as well.

I’ve been posting for 2 years about the trait imbalance with engineers most recently about the condition removal imbalance and nothing has been done.

so i have been doing pvp for 2 weeks now and so far have gone from lvl 2 to 80 with with xp tomes but i only have 160 skillpoints (after buying actual skills…) so for this little guy i need to get 260 skillpoints IF i ignore all grandmaster traits(360 with them) just for traits alone….. how long is this going to take!#$ i have another 3 characters to go after this one -.-

ps i already had a stack of skill points when i started from my main

I do know the best suggestion I’ve heard for dealing with this…make it so there’s a lockbox next to each trait, even if you already have them unlocked on your main. The lockbox determines whether or not you’ve completed the task for the skill. Make it so that as long as you’ve completed the task for that skill, the lock ‘unlocks’, signifying you’ve unlocked the trait that has that requirement ACROSS THE ENTIRE ACCOUNT.

What this does is it allows people to explore the world, and after unlocking a trait, all characters will have access to that trait. For example, say I’ve completed the story mode for Honor of the Waves on my Elementalist for Water XI. I already have a Ranger at level 80, who hasn’t obtained all the traits yet, and is missing Nature Magic XI. By completing HotW story on my Elementalist, the Nature Magic XI trait unlocks on my Ranger as well since it’s the exact same requirement.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I do know the best suggestion I’ve heard for dealing with this…make it so there’s a lockbox next to each trait, even if you already have them unlocked on your main. The lockbox determines whether or not you’ve completed the task for the skill. Make it so that as long as you’ve completed the task for that skill, the lock ‘unlocks’, signifying you’ve unlocked the trait that has that requirement ACROSS THE ENTIRE ACCOUNT.

What this does is it allows people to explore the world, and after unlocking a trait, all characters will have access to that trait. For example, say I’ve completed the story mode for Honor of the Waves on my Elementalist for Water XI. I already have a Ranger at level 80, who hasn’t obtained all the traits yet, and is missing Nature Magic XI. By completing HotW story on my Elementalist, the Nature Magic XI trait unlocks on my Ranger as well since it’s the exact same requirement.

This too will most likely be ignored or glossed over, I mean look at world exploration. It’s still required to go pvp in order to complete it after 2 years even by PVEers that don’t want legendaries and we’re still being required to do that.

The traits system columns I think should be unlocked for all characters on accounts that have a level 80 already so that it doesn’t harm players with alts but I don’t think they’ll actually do anything constructive like this at this point. Even the CDIs have stopped which brought some of us back hoping for a better experience.

At this point I think its obvious that ArenaNet cares about one thing: Gemstore sales. They do not care about the players at all, only how much money they can get from them. You’d think happier players would be something they want with the idea that happier people spend more money but they must be making plenty to decide they don’t have to care about it after all.

Our loss.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I do know the best suggestion I’ve heard for dealing with this…make it so there’s a lockbox next to each trait, even if you already have them unlocked on your main. The lockbox determines whether or not you’ve completed the task for the skill. Make it so that as long as you’ve completed the task for that skill, the lock ‘unlocks’, signifying you’ve unlocked the trait that has that requirement ACROSS THE ENTIRE ACCOUNT.

Making the unlocks ’ACCOUNT BOUND" would bring the excitement back to making alts. They then just have to work on the crazy starting at level 30. Yep, sure do miss the 1 point per level. Got you excited every level and made you work harder. Now…..who cares till lvl80 huh!

Finally got to experience the new system first hand today when I bought another character slot for my 8th and final profession.

Simply put, the new system of having to choose between paying exorbitant costs in either time or gold/skill points to get skills is a horrible player experience.

As a new player to a class I hate the feeling that I have to tons of research to make sure I pick the right traits because the cost of choosing wrong or switching later is so high.

I applaud Anet for coming up with something new instead of the standard paying a trainer some nominal fee but if I was a new player to the game this alone would probably make me feel like I should be playing something else.

I have a friend who is a graphics/ art nut like I am. My friend was going to buy the game based on my recommendation, and watching in game videos, at the end of the month.

Then I rolled a new toon and got a look at this new trait thing firsthand. Not only have I not run that toon since I learned, I have had to tell my friends about this, linking them to this thread. I am not going to be “that guy” who sells his friends on a bad, or deeply flawed, game.

I do not think the game is bad, actually I think the base game is the best I have ever seen (despite its flaws), but I do think this game is now bad for any new players and altaholics. I can see that, if this is not modified, this system could cause a distinctly downward spiral in new sales of the game and new players who bought the game without knowing about this leaving rather than being willing to deal with the system.

This friend, after reading this thread, decided this new system was… not for them. It does not sound fun and the game art does not make up for the lack of fun that this system will cause. I suspect that I will get the same reactions from my other friends.

If Anet changes this, even giving us a reasonable version of the new system, I will return to recommending the game. If Anet states that they are willing to listen to player suggestions on modifications to this system, I will supply them. As it stands, I know threads like this just don’t do much.

The Chinese wanted a grind. Anet gave them one.

Dear ANET,

I have some ideas. These are free for your use. Enjoy.

Allocation of Points

2 trait points at level 20, and 1 trait point every 5 levels thereafter. (Alternately, you could put the 2 at 80, but I think it’s more exciting at 20, personally. Or start with 1 each from level 15 on; go wild. It’s your game; have some fun with it.)
Adept line unlocks at 20, Master at 40, and Grandmaster at 70.
Undo the nerf to all mobs from the April 15th patch.
This gives us nice, clean, round numbers to work with.
I honestly have no idea why this wasn’t the first solution you came up with for traits, rather than the awkward “1:6, and then 2 for a while” method we’ve currently got.

Buying Traits
The total cost should not exceed 20g and 130 skill points.
Personally, I don’t think the adept tier should require skill points.

Earning Traits

This ought to be the fun part. Here’s what I think should happen:

I think trait quests should award trait completion points.

There should be a whole mess of level-appropriate things that cover ALL aspects of the game. I don’t do pvp or wvw, and I rarely do fractals/dungeons these days, so feel free to chime in with ideas, folks.

Anyway, those trait completion points should be spent within a specific tier- maybe even a specific line, but not assigned to specific traits. So I’d need to earn 6 in each line (assuming they’re tied to specific lines, and not just available for all adept traits, willy nilly.) to earn all the adept level traits, and so on.

PvE Adept Tier Quests
100% Map Complete W (W=starter city; Lion’s Arch) (6)
100% Map Complete X (X=1-15 zone) (5)
100% Map Complete Y (Y=15-25 zone) (4)
100% Map Complete Z (Z=zones ranging between 25 and 40) (3)
Earn X guild influence
Earn X guild commendations
Any of the early jumping puzzles (Shaman’s Rookery, Dreamdark Enclave and the one before it, Goemm’s Lab, Sharkmaw, Troll’s End, Urmag’s Secret, Shattered Wall, etc)
Complete N dailies. (like monthly completionist)
Personal story steps level 35 and under (major steps, ideally)
Complete N hearts.
Revive N people.
Complete N skill challenges.
View N vistas.
Complete Ascalonian Catacombs in story mode.

Just off the top of my head. The map complete suggestions account for 18 trait points, just in the adept lines.

With an abundance of things to choose from, in all areas of the game, it will feel less tedious. Keep the group events, by all means. Maybe toss in a world boss or two. Stuff like this is how it should have begun.

Maybe require a zone complete (and equivalent things in PvP and WvW, obviously) in order to unlock the grandmaster tier at all- a choice between Timberline, Iron Marches, Sparkfly, Mount Maelstrom or Fireheart Rise, and then you can access the line itself?

For the Master tier, we’d raise the level accordingly, and maybe get into things like “Obtain and equip a full set of rare equipment” or “Obtain a full set of cultural armor” or “Earn this specific dungeon achievement”. Include stuff from the activities. Costume Bash. Make it FUN for people to do. Please.

Guhracie.3419:

Earn X guild influence
Earn X guild commendations

and for those of us that are in guilds that cannot DO puzzles, like casual guilds or smaller ones ?

Do not force people into Guilds that may not want to be part of super guilds…

and I still think that locking Adept Traits behind lvl 50 content is dumb !!

So is charging such a huge amount to unlock them, totally alienating newer players !

I love what you have come up with for the rest though :-)