Guild Wars 2

As part of the group that has an unhealthy amount of alt characters, and most of them leveled through exploration, I’ve found out that contrary to my initial thoughts and hype about how much fun it would be to be encouraged to do exploration rather than suggested to do so for profit… it really provides nothing. No fun or excitement, in fact the new trait system appears to simply make the game much more sluggish and encourages me to do the basic opposite; level my character to 80 through the cheapest ways I can find, and only hunt for the traits I really need for my prefered build just so I don’t have to go through that horribly awful first thirty levels where I am not only hindered in stats, but also have no customization choices whatsoever.

Like most say; the appeal of Guild Wars 2, so as to look past all the repetitive content, was to rely on its gameplay and customization. Now I am locked out of customization until I reach max level because, you know, I may just have too much fun and do the content too quickly then start to notice how little there is to do, which I am pretty sure is the point behind forcibly prolonguing gameplay through toilet’ing money for traits.

If it is annoying for me, as a player from launch and therefore economically apt, I can only imagine the burden it must be for new players or casual players.

For those attending Gamescom (August 14-17) or knows someone who is, please ask Anet on camera (or if there’s a Q&A) what they intend to do about this

A simple “Nothing” answer is better than what they’ve been doing – ignoring the community and not acknowledging ANY of our feedback on this for the past months

Anmida.4058:

so I don’t have to go through that horribly awful first thirty levels where I am not only hindered in stats, but also have no customization choices whatsoever.

Like most say; the appeal of Guild Wars 2, so as to look past all the repetitive content, was to rely on its gameplay and customization. Now I am locked out of customization until I reach max level because, you know, I may just have too much fun and do the content too quickly then start to notice how little there is to do, which I am pretty sure is the point behind forcibly prolonguing gameplay through toilet’ing money for traits.

If it is annoying for me, as a player from launch and therefore economically apt, I can only imagine the burden it must be for new players or casual players.

Seriously. The first 30 levels are slow as hell. And even after hitting level 30 you still only get 1 trait point every SIX levels, so it’s still slow.

The main reason they changed the system is to give a much more progressive feel to 80 (correct me if I am wrong). Another reason, was because of the change of the amount of points (5 down to 1 per tier) which is fine just spread them evenly. But I would agree with most people the former was weird at best and ineffective at worst. They did not need to change the system, simply add onto it. They could have easily hit two birds with one stone by adding new traits and skills that would fill the void they had between level 60-to-80. Then they would have opened up new skills that everyone has been wanting and such.

There is a serious flaw with the currency in this game. Simply, it is all worthless. Since they have changed this feature and added ways to gain skill points I pretty much have it flowing out-of my ears and nothing to spend it on. Now I think of it: I have Karma, Skill Points, Gold, This-That, Ob.Shards, Bloodstones (a whole bank-full), etc… and nothing to spend it on… yay! The point in all this: now they are adding traits through events (which I do like the ’idea) but now my skill points are all the more useless seemingly.

There’s not much I could add that hasn’t been covered in the last 34 pages (honestly though, only read a few to get the general idea), all that’s left to do is wait for an official response …

Defeat the Risen High Wizard and secure the Promenade of the Gods

Cant wait till I finally have the chance. Its events like these that leave a bad taste for the new system. Its hard to achieve something that rarely occurs.

Excursion.9752:

Defeat the Risen High Wizard and secure the Promenade of the Gods

Cant wait till I finally have the chance. Its events like these that leave a bad taste for the new system. Its hard to achieve something that rarely occurs.

“Secure the Ogres and make them join your battle in WvWvW”

Sure. On it. Right away!
Oh wait I can’t.

34 PAGES!!!! Screw the players.. WE ARE ANET!!!

Been asking it for more than a year now. The trait system was alright before and the only change needed to be great was the separation of traits and trait points.

The way it is now is very tedious and boring when leveling as there is no progression. You barely even get points to customize your character and by the time you get the traits, you are pretty much done developing your character trough skills which means you are left with little to do.

Worse than that, the trait was not very fun before, but Anet managed to take something positive and make it negative. The system went from 6/10 to -4/10 which is a huge change. Finding and unlocking the traits is now a task so dull and unpleasant it makes me doubt I made a good decision when coming back. I’m now leveling with some RL friends and I was enjoying the game until I released the trait system was butchered.

Fix it now.

Sebyos.4089:

Been asking it for more than a year now. The trait system was alright before and the only change needed to be great was the separation of traits and trait points.

The way it is now is very tedious and boring when leveling as there is no progression. You barely even get points to customize your character and by the time you get the traits, you are pretty much done developing your character trough skills which means you are left with little to do.

Worse than that, the trait was not very fun before, but Anet managed to take something positive and make it negative. The system went from 6/10 to -4/10 which is a huge change. Finding and unlocking the traits is now a task so dull and unpleasant it makes me doubt I made a good decision when coming back. I’m now leveling with some RL friends and I was enjoying the game until I released the trait system was butchered.

Fix it now.

I’m pretty much considering the game ends at 30 now. Been levelling a couple of alts, but once a character hits 30, I stop. When I run out of professions, which is soon, I dont see any point in continuing.

50 levels of grind, and work to unlock abilities to play my character as it should be played? F that.

Cameirus.8407:

Sebyos.4089:

Been asking it for more than a year now. The trait system was alright before and the only change needed to be great was the separation of traits and trait points.

The way it is now is very tedious and boring when leveling as there is no progression. You barely even get points to customize your character and by the time you get the traits, you are pretty much done developing your character trough skills which means you are left with little to do.

Worse than that, the trait was not very fun before, but Anet managed to take something positive and make it negative. The system went from 6/10 to -4/10 which is a huge change. Finding and unlocking the traits is now a task so dull and unpleasant it makes me doubt I made a good decision when coming back. I’m now leveling with some RL friends and I was enjoying the game until I released the trait system was butchered.

Fix it now.

I’m pretty much considering the game ends at 30 now. Been levelling a couple of alts, but once a character hits 30, I stop. When I run out of professions, which is soon, I dont see any point in continuing.

50 levels of grind, and work to unlock abilities to play my character as it should be played? F that.

Heh, I leveled a test toon all the way to 58 before I threw in the towel due to extreme boredom.

On the plus side, they nerfed PvE so much that I can pretty much solo all the lower tier content using just the junk that drops.

So, no need to spend gold or jewels. What a great business model.

Basically new trait system is really bad not fun I think this is enough for you to make some changes.I hope…

Bellizare.5816:

On the plus side, they nerfed PvE so much that I can pretty much solo all the lower tier content using just the junk that drops.

Added benefit, level 80s can steamroll lower content like never before! [/sarcasm]
That’s not a good thing, when you want to help out a character that’s lower than you without completely dominating the content.

Bring the old trait scaling back, so the encounters are actually ..kind of.. a little more difficult. Not that they were before, but we like to pretend sometimes.

Rauderi.8706:

Bellizare.5816:

On the plus side, they nerfed PvE so much that I can pretty much solo all the lower tier content using just the junk that drops.

Added benefit, level 80s can steamroll lower content like never before! [/sarcasm]
That’s not a good thing, when you want to help out a character that’s lower than you without completely dominating the content.

Bring the old trait scaling back, so the encounters are actually ..kind of.. a little more difficult. Not that they were before, but we like to pretend sometimes.

Well, if we went back to the BETA standards of difficulty, it was in fact very challenging and very scaling-ey!
But we all know Anet is not going to so much as think about going back to actual challenge.

I’ve just came back around the middle of this month, and honestly, I was a bit shocked and had to pour over the wiki to find out how the new trait system works. Previously it was simple and intuitive, I could find out everything by just looking over the traits

Now I can’t even look over the traits until I get to level 30, can’t even plan out the progress of my character, which events should I do if I want to get the traits I want when I get to use them.

Since a traited and a vanilla characters are leagues apart in terms of power, and scaling doesn’t quite account for trait line stats or for the minor/major traits, lower level characters are even more likely to be locked out of Fractals and other upscaled content that we were supposed to have a shot at, one of the unique points of GW2 over other MMOs.

Also the 80s roaming and dominating low level content and stealing kills…

To alleviate this issue, I’d do some of the following:

1. Access to trait panel from level 1
2. when downscaled, players get to use as many trait points as they’d get at the level they’re scaled to: e.g. downscaled to level 43, they get three trait points that they can only spend on adept traits.
3. lessen the trait point compression at level 66, 72 78 and 80: Players get 8 out of 14 points in the last quarter of their leveling, and 6 of that in the last 1/10th, all after not getting anything between level 10 and 30. So give a trait point at level 24 and 18 instead of 66 and 72. Two trait points at level 78 and 80 are still iffy though. Perhaps spread them out to level 50 and 80.
4. Access to master trait levels should be level 50 and grandmaster at level 70 if 40/60 was too early for you. The trait points are barely trickling until the compression zone (level 66+), so there’s no problem with giving these toys a bit earlier to the players, especially since they can make or break a dungeon run.

the “new and improved” Trait system is an utter failure.

34 Pages of constructive criticism and outrage, 3 months into it’s installation and NOTHING is done.

Please bring back the old trait system for your game’s sake. this is ridiculous.

43 gold and 360 skill points to unlock traits is ridiculous. in the current state of the game’s economy casual players cant afford huge coin amounts like these on top of things like the price of materials and Superior runes…

What a boring and mindless grindfest this game has become… I thought that it was something exclusive to people who want to craft a legendary , now you HAVE to explore 100% of HUGE areas like Lornar’s Pass for EACH Character you want a trait unlocked for.

Who came up with this stupid concept ? Did you consult the players ? those who play and paid for your game …

Mister zeeRo.8561:

the “new and improved” Trait system is an utter failure.

34 Pages of constructive criticism and outrage, 3 months into it’s installation and NOTHING is done.

Please bring back the old trait system for your game’s sake. this is ridiculous.

43 gold and 360 skill points to unlock traits is ridiculous. in the current state of the game’s economy casual players cant afford huge coin amounts like these on top of things like the price of materials and Superior runes…

What a boring and mindless grindfest this game has become… I thought that it was something exclusive to people who want to craft a legendary , now you HAVE to explore 100% of HUGE areas like Lornar’s Pass for EACH Character you want a trait unlocked for.

Who came up with this stupid concept ? Did you consult the players ? those who play and paid for your game …

Casual players put money into the game to get what they want. They are the ones that buy the gems with cash, so unlocking stuff via gold is not that much of an issue for them.

If they already have an 80, they can just run a few dungeons, look up a build that works for their other class, use the gold to unlock the build.

This concept isn’t stupid. It’s reminiscent of how GW1 works. You would go out to an area and capture elite skills after buying a capture signet. Be thankful they made it so you only had to go to the area or do the event. It could be worse. You could’ve required a capture signet to capture the traits. Not only that, but they could of added the traits to the mobs required to kill.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Mister zeeRo.8561:

the “new and improved” Trait system is an utter failure.

34 Pages of constructive criticism and outrage, 3 months into it’s installation and NOTHING is done.

Please bring back the old trait system for your game’s sake. this is ridiculous.

43 gold and 360 skill points to unlock traits is ridiculous. in the current state of the game’s economy casual players cant afford huge coin amounts like these on top of things like the price of materials and Superior runes…

What a boring and mindless grindfest this game has become… I thought that it was something exclusive to people who want to craft a legendary , now you HAVE to explore 100% of HUGE areas like Lornar’s Pass for EACH Character you want a trait unlocked for.

Who came up with this stupid concept ? Did you consult the players ? those who play and paid for your game …

Casual players put money into the game to get what they want. They are the ones that buy the gems with cash, so unlocking stuff via gold is not that much of an issue for them.

If they already have an 80, they can just run a few dungeons, look up a build that works for their other class, use the gold to unlock the build.

This concept isn’t stupid. It’s reminiscent of how GW1 works. You would go out to an area and capture elite skills after buying a capture signet. Be thankful they made it so you only had to go to the area or do the event. It could be worse. You could’ve required a capture signet to capture the traits. Not only that, but they could of added the traits to the mobs required to kill.

be thankful they changed the game so you have to grind countless hours to unlock your traits ?

reminiscent of gw 1 ? casual players ? I didnt mention ANY of that

Did you even read my post and the 34 pages before that ? of course not , your self entitled reply came out of your rear end.

Mister zeeRo.8561:

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Mister zeeRo.8561:

the “new and improved” Trait system is an utter failure.

34 Pages of constructive criticism and outrage, 3 months into it’s installation and NOTHING is done.

Please bring back the old trait system for your game’s sake. this is ridiculous.

43 gold and 360 skill points to unlock traits is ridiculous. in the current state of the game’s economy casual players cant afford huge coin amounts like these on top of things like the price of materials and Superior runes…

What a boring and mindless grindfest this game has become… I thought that it was something exclusive to people who want to craft a legendary , now you HAVE to explore 100% of HUGE areas like Lornar’s Pass for EACH Character you want a trait unlocked for.

Who came up with this stupid concept ? Did you consult the players ? those who play and paid for your game …

Casual players put money into the game to get what they want. They are the ones that buy the gems with cash, so unlocking stuff via gold is not that much of an issue for them.

If they already have an 80, they can just run a few dungeons, look up a build that works for their other class, use the gold to unlock the build.

This concept isn’t stupid. It’s reminiscent of how GW1 works. You would go out to an area and capture elite skills after buying a capture signet. Be thankful they made it so you only had to go to the area or do the event. It could be worse. You could’ve required a capture signet to capture the traits. Not only that, but they could of added the traits to the mobs required to kill.

be thankful they changed the game so you have to grind countless hours to unlock your traits ?

reminiscent of gw 1 ? casual players ? I didnt mention ANY of that

Did you even read my post and the 34 pages before that ? of course not , your self entitled reply came out of your rear end.

You didn’t mention the stuff I stated because what you did was simply ask questions. I gave you some answers.

I said be thankful because they could’ve made it worse. It’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be as its not hard to make gold in this game.

“Who came up with this stupid concept ?” They decided to go with something similar to how GW1 is. It’s actually better than how GW1 is as you don’t have to spend a single piece of gold to get the traits.

“in the current state of the game’s economy casual players..” That’s where you stated casual players.

I did read your post. Clearly though, you’ve forgotten what you posted, and rather than directly attack someone and say something along the lines of, “your self entitled reply came out of your rear end.” I responded with reason’s as to why its not as bad as you seem to think it is, and how it could be worse.

But hey, that’s just like, my opinion man.

Simply put: this is not a poorly thought out design choice by Anet or NCsoft.

Simply put: this is a very well thought out design choice for one reason – Goldsink!

ArtemusHunter.9521:

They decided to go with something similar to how GW1 is. It’s actually better than how GW1 is as you don’t have to spend a single piece of gold to get the traits.

Skill hunting was optional in GW1. (notice the word SKILL) It was in no way a show stopper like this mess they have. Which is not optional and tied to the core builds. So how is this better?

Daggos Skelito.2910:

ArtemusHunter.9521:

They decided to go with something similar to how GW1 is. It’s actually better than how GW1 is as you don’t have to spend a single piece of gold to get the traits.

Skill hunting was optional in GW1. (notice the word SKILL) It was in no way a show stopper like this mess they have. Which is not optional and tied to the core builds. So how is this better?

Trait hunting is optional. You can either pay gold(which is not hard to farm) for the traits, or you can go out into the world and do the stuff it asks you to do to unlock them.

The way its better is Skill obtaining in GW1 required you to either pay plat for the skills(elite and non-elite skills) upfront or plat for the capture signet. Either way, you we’re paying. The new trait system makes it so you can choose between paying or not paying.

Less spending my gold is better. You get the choice between a Time sink or a Gold sink rather than a gradually increasing gold sink + time sink or a regular gold sink.

That’s how it is better.

If ANet needs a “metric” about how the trait stuff came out, they can assign the following task to one, maybe two, people:

Take each post and assign “approve” or “disapprove”. Then calculate a percentage.
Bam, instant negative feedback.

There’s a dozen solid replacements for this trash, so get on it, devs. Grr.

Doo Lally.8594:

Simply put: this is not a poorly thought out design choice by Anet or NCsoft.

Simply put: this is a very well thought out design choice for one reason – Goldsink!

I sorta disagree. Seems the new trait system slowed the alt assembly line. Wasn’t that a gold sink? Turned alot of newer players off to the game. (few friends moved on after the change) Wasn’t that potential “Buy Gems”? My gut tells me this had something to do with China and we suffer or move on.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

be thankful because they could’ve made it worse. It’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be as its not hard to make gold in this game.

Being thankful that they didn’t make it worse than they already did does not really help the argument for this new trait system at all… in fact it just makes it sound like you’re saying this new trait system is worse than the old one (which it definitely is).

Sure making gold to buy a few trait skills here and there isn’t that big of a deal. But when you want to actually experiment with a bunch of different traits suddenly you either have to go do a bunch of level 60 to 80 areas for a few ADEPT level traits or you have to grind a massive amount of gold AND skill points.

They basically slowed the progression of the ENTIRE game with this new trait system. You used to be able to start getting trait points at 11, and enough points to unlock a trait skill slot every 5 levels. Now you have to wait until level 30 to even see the trait interface and then you only get 1 point every 6 levels. And then on top of that you have to go and buy each individual trait or earn it with some bs mission that has nothing to do with the trait. The only good change that came out of this is the on the fly trait point refund, but that doesn’t make the other changes worth it at all.

In regards to the whole “casual” player thing. I’m pretty sure a casual player isn’t going to go out and buy gems to convert them into gold to unlock the traits. They already spent $40 to buy the game and if they don’t like it (because it’s not fun without traits, seriously) they’ll just quit. They’re not going to pump money into the game hoping it’s going to get better.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

Doo Lally.8594:

Simply put: this is not a poorly thought out design choice by Anet or NCsoft.

Simply put: this is a very well thought out design choice for one reason – Goldsink!

I sorta disagree. Seems the new trait system slowed the alt assembly line. Wasn’t that a gold sink? Turned alot of newer players off to the game. (few friends moved on after the change) Wasn’t that potential “Buy Gems”? My gut tells me this had something to do with China and we suffer or move on.

Yep. I only started playing recently and I’m already thinking about putting it down until they change the trait system because it takes FOREVER to get traits now. I bought 1 gem card and I would’ve went on to buy more, but not like this.

Brother who I also introduced to this game is also getting bored of it.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

…
They decided to go with something similar to how GW1 is. It’s actually better than how GW1 is as you don’t have to spend a single piece of gold to get the traits….

Who cares how crappy GW1 was. The new trait system in GW2 is simply worse than the way it was.

I had a friend who was on the fence about buying it, and I couldn’t recommend GW2 to him.

Primarily because of the trait system.
Dungeon QQmunity came in as a close second. (But still isn’t as bad at FF14’s :P)

It’s insulting that they didn’t even fix the traits linked to bugged events. I guess this is the new standard.

Every time there’s a patch that doesn’t address any of the major issues from the “feature” patch, I lose a little more faith that this game is going anywhere I want to follow. I don’t know what else to say. It might be time to give up.

Lazuli.2098:

ArtemusHunter.9521:

…
They decided to go with something similar to how GW1 is. It’s actually better than how GW1 is as you don’t have to spend a single piece of gold to get the traits….

Who cares how crappy GW1 was. The new trait system in GW2 is simply worse than the way it was.

Depending how you play. Possible Level 80 with zero traits!

I’m seriously having a hard time getting my head round this. Maybe because I enjoy single player rpg games where levelling up matters. That and every other rpg type game.

Christ as a youngster I grinded by bum off in Flyff. At least there you got stat points per level.

Sure you can say, hey you get a skill point. Oh, like the 5 I got doing map completion for you ridiculous requirements?

Levelling up has been ruined, no question! Well done!

Hmmm… I must admit I’m disappointed with the new release not fixing this. Sometimes, ANet proves they listen to the players. I guess this is not one of those times.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Hmmm… I must admit I’m disappointed with the new release not fixing this. Sometimes, ANet proves they listen to the players. I guess this is not one of those times.

Nah, it’s pretty clear.

They’d rather tell off and put a pointless sticky in the WvW forums than engage us after pages and pages.

Traits are the new WvW, got it ANet!

Did Anet confirm yet that this has nothing to do with the china model of GW2?

Knighthonor.4061:

Did Anet confirm yet that this has nothing to do with the china model of GW2?

I think this has more to do with their idea of “fixing” the lack of horizontal progression…

Wish they remove map completion and personal story as requirements for trait unlock.doing them for the fourth time is no fun at all

Simmu.9405:

Wish they remove map completion and personal story as requirements for trait unlock.doing them for the fourth time is no fun at all

Try the 8th… or for me, the 13th in some cases.

I can’t stand the trait unlocking. My favorite part about the game was that I could really do whatever I wanted and still progress. Now whenever you want to try a new build, you have to either stop what you’re doing to fulfill requirements that usually take way too long to do, or pay so much money and skill points that it isn’t feasible to do long term.

A lot of the requirements are things I don’t even want to do, like dungeons or WwW. I and the one person I play with can’t do those by the two of us and I don’t enjoy grouping up with strangers.

Even the ones that can be soloed tend to be terribly unreliable to get. For a group event boss, I’d need to get to the area the event takes place in, idle for an unknown amount of time until the event starts, then hope there are enough people around to do it and that they’re skilled enough to beat it.

Is this really the developer’s idea of fun? Sure isn’t mine, I enjoyed being able to explore the world constantly and not stop and wait just so I can get back to playing the game the way I want to.

This is especially bad because I like experimenting with builds. Now, I’d have to do so much work to unlock everything with my two alts that I’d have to dedicate all my free time to playing GW 2 to do it without it taking ages. I’m not going to waste that much time doing things I don’t enjoy, so I’m just going to play them almost entirely traitless up until level 48 so I can experience the other order storylines. I don’t like the story past that point but that’s a different topic. After that, I’ll only play as my main.

The new trait system prevents me from doing what I was planning to do, getting them to 80 then experimenting with different builds on them. I really wish I’d made alts before this happened, but too late for that. Please revert the system back, or at least make it a lot quicker to unlock everything so I can enjoy playing as my alts.

I’d prefer returning to the old system, but if you must keep the unlocking system, here’s some suggestions on how it could be improved:

- Allow buying traits with karma. This would make the currency actually useful. Since you gain it from doing right about anything, it would also allow unlocking traits the way I like to play the game, just by doing whatever I feel like doing.

- Reduce the costs significantly. Make the amount of currencies required for unlocking everything around as much as a lvl 80 character would likely have gained while reaching that point. Around 100-150 skill points and 20-30 gold seems like a good amount.

- Make the unlocking requirements less time consuming. Having to do 100% in an area with multiple characters takes way too much time to be worth it for unlocking a single trait. They could be closer to what the achievement requirements are. Something like exploring 100 Krytan areas, completing 50 hearts or doing 200 events. Those don’t require you to go out of your way to do anything, shouldn’t be something anyone doesn’t want to do in the game and don’t depend on luck at all.

I have four level 80 characters, and two that are within spitting distance.

I’m currently leveling a warrior who was grandfathered into the trait unlocks. I’m still constantly frustrated that I’m over halfway to level cap on him and have only three trait points to use. With only three trait points, I don’t even notice a difference in my play style. After 46 levels! It still feels like I’m running around with a character in his teens.

With the pointlessly delayed trait system, it feels like ANet has said “traits are for endgame. Don’t even bother customizing your character until level 60, at the very earliest.”

It has taken away a major part of the feeling of growth of the character on the way to 80.

I’m just very, very glad that I already had my mesmer and engineer to 80 before the changes, since both professions are much more reliant on traits to make them work than my faceroll warrior. I would have abandoned both of them if I had been required to wait this long to access traits.

I have one empty character slot left for the final profession I haven’t leveled. If I ever find a reason to play a ranger, I don’t know if I will. I’ve got a ridiculous stack of experience scrolls in the bank that I could use to buy the traits, and earning the gold wouldn’t be horrible, so I’m not too concerned about the trait unlocks. The big thing is that I don’t think I can face leveling another character through that progression wasteland up to 60.

ArenaNet talked about how a percentage of the players didn’t even know there was a trait system or didn’t use it. It was implied that somehow the changes were supposed to help with that.

In a curious twist, I think that they should be thankful that there is a significant portion of the player base that blissfully plays, ignorant of this major area of character customization. Otherwise there’d be even more uproar than this long thread about these changes.

Gibson.4036:

The big thing is that I don’t think I can face leveling another character through that progression wasteland up to 60.

Exactly. It’s a snooze fest now because it takes so kitten long to unlock traits. The old system was way more exciting.

What is this grandfather clause anyways with the traits. I have a level 30 necromancer that had like 5-7 points in adept trait prior to the change and he still got changed to the new system.

shadowraid.7365:

What is this grandfather clause anyways with the traits. I have a level 30 necromancer that had like 5-7 points in adept trait prior to the change and he still got changed to the new system.

It refers to trait unlocks. Characters made before the feature pack have all of their traits except the new grandmasters unlocked by default, rather than having to deal with the new method of grinding them out. The tier/level changes and point compression affect all characters, not just new ones.

And why were old characters grandfathered in?

Cuz it would have been Noah’s flood if they hadn’t been. Grandfather of all tsunamis of negative reaction.

Half the benefit of having pre-existing characters have traits unlocked even if they aren’t full level 80s is that it masks the reality from the people who have their alts already. Takes away the unpleasantness to the level of ‘It doesn’t affect ME, so..’

If existing characters had been hoisted by this petard, this wouldn’t be a 34 page thread. This would be a hundred page thread and much more quickly at that, and Anet would have commented on this already and made dang sure to fix it.

I made one character since this system went into place.. a necromancer I got to about level 34, then deleted. I can not stand this system, and frankly, with this kind of anti-player time-wasting mechanic in place I actually can’t make myself play this game at all much any more – even on my grandfathered in 80s.

This is .. gross. This is just god dang gross. It’s abusive time wasting and it’s the worst of the mmo genre all rolled up into one slimy ball. Whatsamatta, Anet, not enough people swallowing the blue pill about the ascended gear grind? Had to make a grind that was absolutely necessary?

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Casual players put money into the game to get what they want. They are the ones that buy the gems with cash, so unlocking stuff via gold is not that much of an issue for them.

No they don’t. Not this one. I will happily buy gems for vanity items and skins that give me no advantage. If I have to pay to progress that is out.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

If they already have an 80, they can just run a few dungeons, look up a build that works for their other class, use the gold to unlock the build.

I had all to 80, and grandfathered when I returned recently. The only one geared is the Ranger … next suggestion?

My issue is that I decided to reroll three of them to change the race. On the bright side, I’ve now seen the last two racial stories. The grandfathered skills are not unlocked on the new chars.

I’m interested in playing with builds not playing “the meta rotation” ala WoW. Yes, we established I’m casual. Playing with builds is fun, and a gold sink on its own. I have had these classes at 80 with all skills unlocked already! Copying meta builds is boring for me. Next suggestion?

ArtemusHunter.9521:

This concept isn’t stupid. It’s reminiscent of how GW1 works.

No, no its not. One they were ELITE skills. For many of them there was still a basic one that worked, just not as well. I never had a slot EMPTY because I had no skill capped. Perhaps I had a less optimal choice in the slot. Traits are EMPTY until you go get it. They are unlocked, and empty for a long time if you level “normally”. Just doing 3-4 of the map completions you need for them can get you to 80!

Paul.4081:

Depending how you play. Possible Level 80 with zero traits!

Yes! Like the first of my rerolls so far! This is exactly what happens. Though it has a handful unlocked since they were there in the area when I leveled.

So far she purchased one. It was unlockable where I leveled but the event was broken. From reading the wiki, it usually is. So rather than forget where it was from and why I didn’t get it, I got that with cash and points in hand from leveling. In the two small patch notes since then, that event has seen no fixes. Hmmm.

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

Hechicera.9816:

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Casual players put money into the game to get what they want. They are the ones that buy the gems with cash, so unlocking stuff via gold is not that much of an issue for them.

No they don’t. Not this one. I will happily buy gems for vanity items and skins that give me no advantage. If I have to pay to progress that is out.

Exactly this. I understand the game creators gotta keep earning their money somehow after the initial purchase because they’re always updating things and fixing things. I don’t mind buying gems once in awhile to buy awesome / cool items. But when you’re literally paying somebody so that you can SKIP parts of the game, you know there’s something kittened up with the game.

Hechicera.9816:

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

A couple of things (IMO):

1) It might be less fun because it was added so late in the game’s life. Taking something away and then asking people to earn it back is very different that providing something for people to earn in the first place. I know that existing characters are grandfathered in, but people creating new characters have the experience of how it was handled previously to compare. The previous iteration of the trait system created an expectation of what was normal.

2) You could take a non elite skill in place of an elite in GW1. Not having capped a trait in GW2 might mean having an empty spot in your build.

Hasn’t affected me. Probably won’t that much. But I see why others might be unhappy.

Ashen.2907:

Hechicera.9816:

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

A couple of things (IMO):

1) It might be less fun because it was added so late in the game’s life. Taking something away and then asking people to earn it back is very different that providing something for people to earn in the first place. I know that existing characters are grandfathered in, but people creating new characters have the experience of how it was handled previously to compare. The previous iteration of the trait system created an expectation of what was normal.

2) You could take a non elite skill in place of an elite in GW1. Not having capped a trait in GW2 might mean having an empty spot in your build.

Hasn’t affected me. Probably won’t that much. But I see why others might be unhappy.

But in Guild Wars 1, elites were much much more important and you were often seriously gimping yourself without an elite. Sure you could take a normal skill, but it meant nothing.

Think of builds made around discord, barrage, signet of spirits, unyielding aura…hell the builds were named after the elites.

Just because you could throw an inconsequential 8th skill in your bar, didn’t mean you weren’t seriously disadvantaged by doing so.

Vayne.8563:

Just because you could throw an inconsequential 8th skill in your bar, didn’t mean you weren’t seriously disadvantaged by doing so.

Well, if what you were doing was throwing an inconsequential 8th skill on your bar then sure. What a strawman.

Finding a strong build yourself with a new character in GW1 before capping elites was a sense of accomplishment. And if you couldn’t, you asked on the boards because they existed. They were starter, but competent, and updated each expansion. Then the elite caps were another second accomplishment. The non-elite builds often leveraged synergy between existing non-elites. But I can’t do that here with traits since I can’t leverage synergies between traits I don’t have, to make up for another trait I don’t have. The emotional feel is very different. And, thankfully you can’t ping traits in GW2. If so, then there would be a new form of elitism for players of new characters to deal with.

If this is the same: where is the list of good starter “no trait” builds for GW2, like there were non-elite starter builds for GW1? You know, new players will need them now too.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Hechicera.9816:

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

A couple of things (IMO):

1) It might be less fun because it was added so late in the game’s life. Taking something away and then asking people to earn it back is very different that providing something for people to earn in the first place. I know that existing characters are grandfathered in, but people creating new characters have the experience of how it was handled previously to compare. The previous iteration of the trait system created an expectation of what was normal.

2) You could take a non elite skill in place of an elite in GW1. Not having capped a trait in GW2 might mean having an empty spot in your build.

Hasn’t affected me. Probably won’t that much. But I see why others might be unhappy.

But in Guild Wars 1, elites were much much more important and you were often seriously gimping yourself without an elite. Sure you could take a normal skill, but it meant nothing.

Think of builds made around discord, barrage, signet of spirits, unyielding aura…hell the builds were named after the elites.

Just because you could throw an inconsequential 8th skill in your bar, didn’t mean you weren’t seriously disadvantaged by doing so.

Correct Vayne, but also remember that Elite Skills were to be captured off of lvl20 Bosses and you had a quest to go capture an Elite(may not have been the one you wanted/needed but was still there). There are numerous traits in GW2 that are in areas with higher level mobs than when you should be able to get said trait. The Elite Skills caps were also not severely bugged or in some cases just non-obtainable like some traits in GW2.

Ok, I think I’ve pinned down another of the “not fun” issues. Sid Meier (that Civ guy) has said

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/164869/GDC_2012_Sid_Meier_on_how_to_see_games_as_sets_of_interesting_decisions.php

“Games are a series of interesting decisions,” says Firaxis’ Sid Meier.

A series of choices of what subset of a large number of perhaps sub-optimal skills to use is still a more interesting choice than only being allowed to not use the trait I do not have yet. When you don’t have the traits, there are no interesting decisions to be made. In GW1, you had some skills always, just not the elites. So it could be interesting, and perhaps frustrating like a puzzle, to be able to find a way to arrange them in a more functional set.