Guild Wars 2

JonPeters.5630:

Unlocking traits. We talked about this a bunch in the horizontal progression CDI and it came to our attention that many players were not learning about traits, how they worked, or understanding the options. When we talked through unlocking traits via activities it led us in the direction we have currently. Unfortunately, unlocking traits in the open world generally causes one of the #1 things we never wanted in the game which is players in conflict. You want might the Balthazar trait but someone is about to complete the chain and leave you waiting. This is bad for the game, but I think right now only occurs this dramatically for a few of the traits.

Honestly I do like the concept of unlocking traits by doing stuff around the world of tyria, however i think it is poorly implemented. Some of the worst Trait unlocking is at the adept tier, i will list just a few here:

Trait line 1, Trait 1: complete story quest “A Light in the Darkness” – a trait that should be available for a level 36 character is locked behind a level 55 story step… i think you can see whats wrong with that…

Trait line 3, Trait 2: complete story quest “The Battle of Claw Island” – again, a trait that should be available to a level 36 character, this time locked behind a slightly lower level 50 story step… i think you can see where i’m going with these…

Trait line 4, Trait 1: complete the obsidian sanctum jumping puzzle – i’m sorry WHAT?! Are you out of your kitten minds over there?! the obsidian sanctum is one of the LONGEST, most tedious jumping puzzles i’ve EVER had to do, and that’s without all the other servers griefing you… Whoever decided this would be appropriate for an ADEPT trait should be fired no questions asked!

and finally

Trait line 5, Trait 3: complete story quest “Retribution” – again, another adept trait locked behind a quest way higher level than it needs to be, this time a whopping level 59!

Granted these are just ones i could think of when i decided to create an alt and finally got to level 30 and realized how much of a chore it would be to unlock traits i USED to use to help smooth the leveling process… This is completely OUTRAGEOUS! You should not be forcing new players to suffer difficult or high level content just to unlock traits they should be experimenting with by level 40…

Lucky for you though i have a solution for this too, its a solution i’m sure a lot of people have been thinking about for a long time, make generic trait unlocking guides. These generic trait unlocking guides can then drop from level appropriate content (ie adept trait guides will drop from level 30-59 world bosses, map completions, jumping puzzles, ECT. while master trait guides will drop from level 60-79 content, and grandmaster will drop from level 80 content) heck you could even just go through and replace ALL the usual occurrences of unlocking traits with dropping guides for your first time through the content (obviously you have a way of keeping track of whether its the first time through or not otherwise i’d get trait unlock messages every time i did TA story)

Now i know these ideas are by no means simple to implement but i honestly think it would be a simpler system than what you gave us with the LAST feature pack…

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

The problems with the current unlocks, by line, in my opinion. Colour coded for your convenience. Please see attachment.

Red: I consider the Unlock requirement unreasonable – the level is too high, the nature of it is inaccessible to a newly levelling player (WvW, Dungeon) or it is just plain dull (Map Completion). In my opinion you should be able to unlock any Adept trait at 36, any Master trait at 60 and all Grandmaster traits by 80.

Orange: Not something I personally like. Personal Story past level 30 is a dull trudge and Group Events outwith World bosses can be laborious to get numbers for.

Green: More of these, please – though obviously with a change to whatever is causing the unlock to be a problem (mini-dungeons are great, level inappropriate mini-dungeons are not).

Alternate suggestion for fix:
Make a second set of points, called “Major Trait Points” or something and award them for completing tasks on this list; 1 point for Adept tasks, 2 points of Master tasks, and 3 points for Grandmaster tasks. Each Major Trait ability can then be purchased with these points; 1 point for Adepts, 2 for Masters, and 3 for Grandmasters. This makes completing your personal story directly rewarding in a way that you need it to be, rather than praying that you need something off that list. Also, make completion of the personal story worth 4 points.

WvW players can be included in this by earning 1 point for camp/reactor caps, 2 for towers, 3 for keeps, and 4 for Stonesmist (I haven’t checked the math to see if this works out or not, but you get the idea). You would get the points the first time each character caps a location.

ALLOW THESE POINTS TO BE REFUNDABLE. If you decide you don’t like the traits you’ve currently purchased, you can refund all or some FOR NO COST and avoid buyer’s remorse and then try something else. THIS is what tinkering with builds requires.

Second alternate:
Make trait unlocks account-bound. Still consider changing the tasks.

4 new pages in 7 hours.

I can’t wait to see how this all works after the new and improved leveling system starts in a few days.

I would really like to make a new character, but I get so bored around 30ish.

It’s saved me lots of money though, and now I don’t have to log in very often.

Problem: trait system is not satisfying because it is a checklist and not a true progression.

Solution (long-term): Move to a completely point-based system. In my eyes, the trait system can be fixed by making all the tasks less trait-specific and tied to activities that people actually do on a regular basis: discovering new or hidden locales, completing personal story, completing maps, killing bosses, running explorable dungeons, killing each other in the Mists; all of these things should reward trait unlock points. If there’s an achievement for it, it should also have some kind of trait reward for it.

The other thing that would be highly rewarding for players is to have different unlocks for each trait or trait line based on profession. Let Elementalists unlock all of the Arcane Adept traits by communing with 30 locations; Arcane Master traits could be from 60 locations. Something like that.

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

WOW !! Well thought out and so much more doable while still encouraging people to go out in the world and find stuff without the impossible tasks that are there now.

Thank you

JonPeters.5630:

Cross.6437:

JonPeters.5630:

Lazuli.2098:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

JonPeters.5630:

Thanks. I’ll pass this on.

So, this is how it works? Cherry pick ONE PERSON’s “list of things I don’t like”, while ignoring 40 pages of really good feedback and ideas? OK. I’m done with this thread.

From this response from JonPeters and his initial post it is obvious that Anet is not going to fix their new leveling process or trait system except the individual tasks themselves.

I’m discouraged since I used to like leveling new alts but can live with just playing my level 80s instead.

To be clear we are looking at the system as a whole but recognize that changing that will take longer than is satisfying and are looking for ways to improve the current system until a time at which we can make a better overall system from the ground up. Specific suggestions on what traits are poorly placed are helpful for #1, specific suggestions on #2 are also welcome but are going to be read but not responded too right now.

So, if I’m reading this right, are you saying, you’re looking for quick changes to make the system more bearable while not confirming or denying the possibility of a holistic revamp at some point in the indeterminate future?

Because knowing that would really settle some of my anxiety about the existence of this request for feedback.

Yup. and I would replace the word possibility with the word probability…

This is where I remind everyone that they’ve not said they’ll do anything. No “We will”, only “probability”, “consider”, and “discuss”.

We’ve all heard this kind of talk from ANet before, so don’t get your hopes up. Advise and suggest as you will, but remember their track record.

Palador.2170:

JonPeters.5630:

Cross.6437:

JonPeters.5630:

Lazuli.2098:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

JonPeters.5630:

Thanks. I’ll pass this on.

So, this is how it works? Cherry pick ONE PERSON’s “list of things I don’t like”, while ignoring 40 pages of really good feedback and ideas? OK. I’m done with this thread.

From this response from JonPeters and his initial post it is obvious that Anet is not going to fix their new leveling process or trait system except the individual tasks themselves.

I’m discouraged since I used to like leveling new alts but can live with just playing my level 80s instead.

To be clear we are looking at the system as a whole but recognize that changing that will take longer than is satisfying and are looking for ways to improve the current system until a time at which we can make a better overall system from the ground up. Specific suggestions on what traits are poorly placed are helpful for #1, specific suggestions on #2 are also welcome but are going to be read but not responded too right now.

So, if I’m reading this right, are you saying, you’re looking for quick changes to make the system more bearable while not confirming or denying the possibility of a holistic revamp at some point in the indeterminate future?

Because knowing that would really settle some of my anxiety about the existence of this request for feedback.

Yup. and I would replace the word possibility with the word probability…

This is where I remind everyone that they’ve not said they’ll do anything. No “We will”, only “probability”, “consider”, and “discuss”.

We’ve all heard this kind of talk from ANet before, so don’t get your hopes up. Advise and suggest as you will, but remember their track record.

Possibility and probability are two distinct words with different meanings.

And given how much we love to harp on semantics around here when discussing back and forth about topics . . . I think it’s important to note when semantics are being trotted out on their part.

When he said “probability” he basically said without saying outright they are indeed considering it more seriously than shooting theoreticals around on the forums.

Though he’s still not confirming or denying the existence of any actual work. Which is to say there’s . . . probably . . . some guy in a converted broom closet office looking over the old and current trait systems and trying to figure out another potential replacement which won’t end in blood and tears.

If at all possible, get rid of the specific task = specific trait system. It’s very tedious.

A general task = any one trait of your choice (or more preferably, tier of a trait line) would be so much less tedious and more streamlined.

The trait requiring you to kill the Giant in Harathi Hinterlands as part of the shining blade meta event.

I know the event gets completed, because I’ve participated in the next step of the event… but I have never actually seen anyone kill the giant.

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

Something like this would be so much better. I don’t like the zone themes though. It’s still requiring new players to go out of their way.

Lytalm.5673:

Sigh

If you’re not happy how unlocking traits works, BUY THEM.

Not a viable option at all. Buying traits is a big strain coin and SP wise. Even just the adept tier will set you back couple of gold. Mutiply that by number of alts you may have and it becomes impossible.

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Maybe we should give new players more credit when it comes to learning a new game. After all, we “veterans” managed to learn just fine in two years.

^this. Players are not stupid, and manage to understand who games work. People who play mmorpg expect the game to have a learning curve that is a bit harder than…. Tetris.

You (the Dev that posted) should just make an alt and try playing with it how “you wants”. You’ll be singing a completely different tune after that.

Let’s call a spade a spade: the trait unlocking system sucks. It sucks big time. It is something that should not have been changed to begin with. Games like this revolve around builds, skills and trait. You wanting players “to learn” their class, and “not be overwhelmed” is totally ruined by this system: there is nothing for players to learn, because they don’t even have access to most of their traits. And about being overwhelmed? Try doing some PvP or some challenging PvE content, when all you have is a handful of adept-tier traits. It’s a real fun, I tell ya’.

Being plowed through by people who can actually make build and play like they want is a whole lot more overwhelming than having access to all the traits and learning how to use them on your own.

P.S: player need access to all traits, not just the ones that are relevant to a certain build. I don’t want to play according to what some guy think is best, I wanna make my own build. I’m crazy like that.

Hey there Jon, glad to see you on the boards. A couple of suggestions I have for improving the trait system are as follows.

• Change the level unlocks to 15/40/65 for Adept/Master/Grandmaster.

I know you said that you moved these to aid new players in having more time to understand the system, but as others have stated, as they currently are levels 21-29, and 31-35 just feel like dead levels. You don’t really gain much as a character, you’ve gotten all your utility slots by 20, and the game can likely feel like more of the “run around and do stuff to gain levels” with no real experimentation or fun. Traits unlocking that early gives players the incentive to spend their 20s running around, seeing how the trait system works, and getting used to it. It also means that you can start having challenges in these ranges as well. You could have the Shadow Behemoth or a Kessex Hills boss be one of the trait challenges, for example.

• Make trait unlocks account-bound.

Not really much to say here. You know what’s worse than having to do map completion (which is getting changed, thankfully) or doing a non-timed boss like the Priest of Balthazar or the Dredge Commissar? Doing it again for every single one of your alts.

• Let players choose from multiple objectives for a trait unlock.

Pretty simple here too. Just have multiple possible objectives for a trait, and if a player completes any one of them, they get the trait unlocked. This means the WvWers don’t have to mess around in PvE if they don’t want to, and vice versa. Along with not requiring someone to go to a map they hate just for a trait.

• Map markers for trait challenges.

Either mark the map when using the “show me” option, or just enable the player to turn markers on for any traits available in the current map. It will immensely help players with knowing how and where to go to get a trait.

• Allow alternate currencies for purchasing traits.

Requiring gold and skill points to let a leveling character get a trait can be very bad, especially combined with my point above where you need to repeat this for every single character, and the fact that skill points are very valuable for a leveling character. Potentially you can allow a player to purchase the traits with laurels, or karma, or even badges of honour.

Those are my thoughts, you’ve already shown that you’re nixing map completion for traits, and also looking at various events like Priest of Balthazar, so I won’t comment on those, just that I’m glad you’re looking to see how it’s a problem and how to fix it. Hope this list helps in some way, thanks!

JonPeters.5630:

1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.

Speaking as a player who recently unlocked all traits under the new system and didn’t play under the old system, here’s my list.

Line 1 (Power/Condition)
I: Requires completion of a level 55 story step for a level 36 trait
II: Requires completion of a level 80 WvW event for a level 36 trait
III: Requires hours of effort equating to ten levels of content for a level 36 trait
IV: Requires an event to be active. I bought this one.
V: Requires hours of effort ending at level 50 for a level 36 trait
VI: Requires a level 42 event to be active for a level 36 trait
VII: Requires completion of a level 80 WvW event for a level 60 trait
VIII: Requires completion of a level 70 dungeon for a level 60 trait
IX: Requires exploration of a level 71 area for a level 60 trait
X: Requires a level 68 event to be active for a level 60 trait
XII: Requires an event to be active
XIII: Requires an event to be active

Line 2 (Precision/Ferocity)
II: Requires completion of a level 50 dungeon for a level 36 trait
III: Requires a level 43 event to be active for a level 36 trait
IV: Requires hours of effort ending at level 40 in an enormous zone for a level 36 trait
V: Requires an event to be active
VII: Requires completion of a level 80 WvW event for a level 60 trait
XII: Has bizarre hit detection and is almost impossible to understand without the wiki
XIII: Requires an event to be active

Line 3 (Toughness/Boon)
I: Requires defeat of a level 43 veteran for a level 36 trait
II: Requires completion of a level 50 event for a level 36 trait
III: Requires completion of a level 80 WvW event for a level 36 trait
IV: Requires completion of a level 58 event for a level 36 trait
V: Requires hours of effort up to level 40 for a level 36 trait
VI: Requires completion of a level 36 trait
VII: Requires completion of a level 80 WvW event for a level 60 trait
IX: Requires an event to be active
X: Requires completion of a level 70 story step for a level 60 trait
XII: Requires an event to be active
XIII: Requires an event on a 3-hour timer to be active

Line 4 (Vitality/Healing)
I: Are you kidding with this? In order to get a trait used mostly for jumping puzzles you need to complete one of the longest, hardest jumping puzzles with lots of falls. In other words, if you can get this trait, you don’t need it. What is more, this is a WvW area, which means people who know this is a trait unlock can and do hang out here to camp uplevels. Seriously, how did this make sense to anyone?
II: Requires completion of a level 80 WvW event for a level 36 trait
IV: Requires hours of effort up to level 45 for a level 36 trait
VI: Requires completion of a level 60 event for a level 36 trait; I wouldn’t use this as an example of a fixed trait unlock, because it’s ridiculous
X: Requires completion of a level 80 story for a level 60 trait
XII: Requires an event to be active

Line 5 (Condition/Profession)
II: Requires an event to be active. I bought this one.
III: Requires completion of a level 59 story for a level 36 trait
IV: Requires hours of effort up to level 50 for a level 36 trait
VI: Requires an event to be active
VII: Requires completion of a level 71 trait which almost requires the wiki (the telescope does not point to the teleporter needed to enter the lab) for a level 60 trait
VIII: Requires a level 70 event to be active for a level 60 trait
IX: Requires an event on a 3-hour timer to be active
X: Requires an event to be active. I bought this one.
XI: Requires completion of a ridiculous WvW event that your server could well get mad about your even attempting
XIII: Requires an event to be active

That’s my comprehensive list. Not coincidentally, it is almost a comprehensive list of trait unlocks as well. I didn’t even include my personal dislike of the personal story, since I would have borne that if it weren’t for all the other trait nonsense. At least that’s under the player’s control.

To summarize, very few traits can be unlocked at a level appropriate for the trait according to the system itself. Many unlocks are subject to events beyond the unlocker’s control, whether because of a timer or the vicissitudes of WvW. Several unlocks require effort wildly disproportionate to the reward, to wit map completion. Some unlocks are almost impossible to find for someone just trying to complete them, requiring in-depth exploration or external resources.

One might argue I’m being unfair by judging levels the way I am, using the minimum level you can slot a trait. For one thing, I’m not; I left off a few unlocks that are only a couple levels higher than the minimum. For another, I’m speaking based on experience with the system. Matters would be different if there were some trait unlocks that sat at a higher level than the minimum, but almost all do. It was not unusual to have no traits of a given tier in a given line, especially since I always had more traits unlocked in some lines than others without any conscious effort to do so. (Note how many fewer complaints I have about Line 2 than the others.) Staring at an empty trait slot is more than a little disheartening and makes unlocking feel less like progressing and more like catching up.

For a quick fix I recommend moving unlocks to the personal story starting at a much lower level (such as 30 when the trait window pops up) and tying more traits to discovering areas, completing mini dungeons, and doing jumping puzzles in places like Lion’s Arch rather than WvW.

2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

Sure!

- Trait tier level increase: As has been noted, traits unlock at the same time as elite skills. A level between utility unlocks would be better for the stated purpose.

- Unlocking traits: With this system, I was definitely not “learning about traits, how they worked, or understanding the options.” Perhaps it was envisioned that players would gradually and organically unlock traits. However, the requirements make that impossible. Here is how it actually worked:

1) Unlock traits, put one point in the first line because Power increases damage
2) Unlock major traits, find out I don’t have any in the Power line. Look at the ones I do have, shrug, put another point in Power
3) Look at trait unlocks ingame, get pointed by the telescope to places on the map I haven’t uncovered which are surrounded by places I also haven’t uncovered. Check wiki, find out I can’t do any of them.
4) After leveling up a bunch and unlocking Master tier, start unlocking Adept traits.
5) Realize unlocking all skills would take forever, use the internet to find out which are the best for my class so I can prioritize those.
6) Get most of the good ones, decide to ignore the rest until 80.
7) Get to 80 and still only have a handful unlocked. Start unlocking the rest willy-nilly.
8) Buy the last few once I can afford it, which is a long time thanks to the skill point cost

The key part is that I unlocked the vast majority of traits once I was level 80, once they no longer had meaning. I didn’t even look at what they did when I unlocked them. It was just a checklist. Adept, Master, and Grandmaster were all jumbled together, because at 80 they’re all equally easy to unlock. The different lines were all jumbles as well. The only ones to which I paid close attention were the ones the internet told me was good. I still don’t know what line most of my traits are in or what most of them do. It’s just a mass of “Inflict some condition or gain some boon sometimes for some reason.”

At the end of the day this system has helped spread out the teaching of the system and the feeling of accomplishment through acquisition . . .

No. It hasn’t. What I learned came from outside the game and a little PvP experimentation, and I did not feel any sense of accomplishment. The game might as well have told me to collect 65 wolf paws.

I understand my utility skills better, because as I leveled up I could just look at them, guess which was good, spend skill points I got from leveling, and try them. If traits simply unlocked at level 15 and gave me one trait per level it would work much better for the stated purposes than the current system, which makes trait unlocking a level 80 grind.

It’s true this system isn’t overwhelming for new players. It’s underwhelming. It presents itself in a way that makes me not care about the individual traits and resent the system as a whole. It made leveling past 30 an unpleasant experience when I tried to play in the way the system encouraged, such as completing Lornar’s Pass and waiting around for events. I had a much better time when I was ignoring it. It was an obstacle to having fun. The trait system is the worst character progression system I can remember in any video game I’ve ever played, and I played “The Last Remnant.”

nexxe.7081:

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

Something like this would be so much better. I don’t like the zone themes though. It’s still requiring new players to go out of their way.

It was just an idea to stick to the idea of encouraging exploration while staying level-appropriate. I think it also helps with the leveling problem, since discovering new areas/WPs is a major source of exp, but doesn’t require grinding or jumping through the same extremely specific hoops over and over again. It’s sorta meeting the dev team half way!

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

My god this is brilliant and works. Some numbers may need tweeking, but by the Khan-Ur I love the way this is done.

I like the principles behind felesan.9587’s list, and I would strongly support that kind of implementation.

As for specific instances, the only personal negative experience I’ve had has been trying to complete Devouring the Brand in Iron Marches with a friend of mine, which resulted in multiple days trying and several bug reports due to the frequent issues with that meta event that can cause it to hang at various stages. If I remember correctly we actually had to finally get a taxi to another map instance to get it finished (and then we had to recruit a few other people for assistance). It was pretty embarrassing for me since I had recruited him into the game on the promise of accessibility and reliability.

As to the broader issues, there really has to be a happy medium between the current top-heavy system, which is meant to appeal to new players, and the old system, which by design’s own admission was far more appealing to veteran players. I appreciate that you can’t make content fair for one group of players that has access to full trait trees and another that doesn’t, but remember that in addition to converting new players you also have a major source of recurring revenue in your vets, and while you certainly want to reward someone for his box purchase with a smooth first leveling experience, you don’t want to make him feel punished for buying that extra character slot once he’s on his third or fourth alt.

My view is that even in the current system, there are no new systems being introduced past level 30, when traits are introduced. For even brand new players the fundamentals of traits are going to be mastered within five or ten levels at most. The tiers themselves don’t actually require any new or different understanding with respect to traits, especially since by the time the player has hit 60 (as it is now), he or she has had a long time to play with different builds and experience the nuances of his or her trait lines, made longer still by the fact that he or she only has 6 points to work with.

Sure, the new player is still unlocking skills at 60, but as with traits there’s not a new system being introduced with those later skills—only different variations within the current systems. Further, right or wrong, the skills a player is unlocking at the upper levels are frequently being unlocked for completion or variety rather than for experimentation, as the player has already settled on the style of play that he or she prefers. That may suggest that many skills need work, but there’s no faster solution for that problem than there is for traits.

I’d like to see all traits moved forward, so that the second tier opens up at 40 or 45 and the final tier opens at 50 or 60, with corresponding trait point awards to make the tiers accessible. Then at the genuinely higher levels players can spend their time working with builds that are full or near full (and honestly I think it would be better for players both new and old to have their full allocation of trait points by 70).

For that matter, leaving a window of ten to twenty levels of no new content could pave the way for the introduction of new horizontal progression systems or for reworks of current systems that are level-gated (such as systems currently found only in items, where higher rarity is only available at higher levels). At upper levels you could go a long way just focusing players on understanding what different stat combinations mean and what varying runes and sigils contribute, and the way you avoid the mechanics overload problem is by blocking off the competing mechanics into different level blocks (skills ~1-35, traits ~30-70, equipment ~68-80).

And that’s not even addressing the possibility of totally new mechanics we haven’t seen before, such as skill customization (as per World of Warcraft’s glyphs or Diablo III’s skill runes, for instance), which could have a major impact on player enthusiasm and build diversity without an overwhelming development investment and which would naturally belong at higher levels of play.

Whatever you do, though, remember that new players that stick around are only new the first time around. They’re returning players from then on, and if a returning player is going to level 8 characters to 80—as many of us have—he or she doesn’t want to wait until the end of the journey to get the things that could best be used to make the journey more enjoyable.

Jagdfygar.1394:

2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

Sure!

- Trait tier level increase: As has been noted, traits unlock at the same time as elite skills. A level between utility unlocks would be better for the stated purpose.

- Unlocking traits: With this system, I was definitely not “learning about traits, how they worked, or understanding the options.” Perhaps it was envisioned that players would gradually and organically unlock traits. However, the requirements make that impossible. Here is how it actually worked:

1) Unlock traits, put one point in the first line because Power increases damage
2) Unlock major traits, find out I don’t have any in the Power line. Look at the ones I do have, shrug, put another point in Power
3) Look at trait unlocks ingame, get pointed by the telescope to places on the map I haven’t uncovered which are surrounded by places I also haven’t uncovered. Check wiki, find out I can’t do any of them.
4) After leveling up a bunch and unlocking Master tier, start unlocking Adept traits.
5) Realize unlocking all skills would take forever, use the internet to find out which are the best for my class so I can prioritize those.
6) Get most of the good ones, decide to ignore the rest until 80.
7) Get to 80 and still only have a handful unlocked. Start unlocking the rest willy-nilly.
8) Buy the last few once I can afford it, which is a long time thanks to the skill point cost

The key part is that I unlocked the vast majority of traits once I was level 80, once they no longer had meaning. I didn’t even look at what they did when I unlocked them. It was just a checklist. Adept, Master, and Grandmaster were all jumbled together, because at 80 they’re all equally easy to unlock. The different lines were all jumbles as well. The only ones to which I paid close attention were the ones the internet told me was good. I still don’t know what line most of my traits are in or what most of them do. It’s just a mass of “Inflict some condition or gain some boon sometimes for some reason.”

At the end of the day this system has helped spread out the teaching of the system and the feeling of accomplishment through acquisition . . .

No. It hasn’t. What I learned came from outside the game and a little PvP experimentation, and I did not feel any sense of accomplishment. The game might as well have told me to collect 65 wolf paws.

I understand my utility skills better, because as I leveled up I could just look at them, guess which was good, spend skill points I got from leveling, and try them. If traits simply unlocked at level 15 and gave me one trait per level it would work much better for the stated purposes than the current system, which makes trait unlocking a level 80 grind.

It’s true this system isn’t overwhelming for new players. It’s underwhelming. It presents itself in a way that makes me not care about the individual traits and resent the system as a whole. It made leveling past 30 an unpleasant experience when I tried to play in the way the system encouraged, such as completing Lornar’s Pass and waiting around for events. I had a much better time when I was ignoring it. It was an obstacle to having fun. The trait system is the worst character progression system I can remember in any video game I’ve ever played, and I played “The Last Remnant.”

This. All of this. This system doesn’t help players learn to build, it helps them learn to Google “good GW2 [profession name] build” and follow it exactly. It’s not fun; it’s the opposite of fun. A “fun-gate” if you will.

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

Give that guy a cookie. This will be a great fix for this fiasco.

RyuDragnier.9476:

My god this is brilliant and works. Some numbers may need tweeking, but by the Khan-Ur I love the way this is done.

The numbers are just rough estimates. I like multiples of threes and fives.

Eric.6109:

Give that guy a cookie. This will be a great fix for this fiasco.

I like cookies too Plx to haz cooky plx?

RyuDragnier.9476:

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

My god this is brilliant and works. Some numbers may need tweeking, but by the Khan-Ur I love the way this is done.

Yes, sadly this makes so much more sense than what the paid help came up with that I may cry. They should just copy-paste and pretend that it was their idea.

JonPeters.5630:

-insert long ArenaNet staff member post here-

With all due respect, I would like to put forward my opinion as one of the new players in the game (started playing last week).

What needs to be improved isn’t the systems themselves, but the tutorials introducing you to them. For a vast, vast amount of the game’s content, I’d not have a bloody clue what was happening were it not for my guild showing me what’s going on. The game offers no guidance in the form of tutorials for 90% of it’s features, and it’s very frustrating.

With regard to traits, in all honesty, looking at the traits list and seeing the massively complex tasks required to unlock certain traits unless you happen to be wealthy and swimming in skill points (ie, not a new player) is hugely demoralising. Here was a new system I could use to improve my character, but to actually make use of it, I need to gain another 30 levels and murder some megaboss/complete a map/complete a story step I won’t get access to for another 40 levels/etc.

Honestly, to me, right now, the trait system is a massive turn-off, and everyone in my guild have stated that the tasks required to unlock traits are not easy, which further discourages me from pursuing traits, rather than motivates me to unlock them.

I am curious as to how you guys get your info on what you believe actual, genuine new players need/want in the game, as from what I have observed, there’s bugger all about guild wars 2 that is encouraging or friendly to newbies.

You all have fun writing up your ideas. You guys (players, obvs, since Anet can’t be bothered) might try scanning the thread, because a bunch of good stuff is apparently going entirely unnoticed, and I certainly won’t bother with a copy/paste. If they didn’t read it the first time, why should I expect they’ll read it a second time? Fool me once.

Oh, while we’re on the subject of traits: you should look into editing the description of traits to make them more understandable and consistent. There is a trait for Guradians that puts up a shield bubble while rez’ing another player. When you hover with the mouse over it (not when slotted) it says something very ambiguous about projectiles, and doesn’t make sense at all. Only after you equip it you understand what it does.

Guhracie.3419:

You all have fun writing up your ideas. You guys (players, obvs, since Anet can’t be bothered) might try scanning the thread, because a bunch of good stuff is apparently going entirely unnoticed, and I certainly won’t bother with a copy/paste. If they didn’t read it the first time, why should I expect they’ll read it a second time? Fool me once.

Look at it as a vote of confidence. We have a Dev in the thread; he is commenting (if scarcely, and ambiguously). We want these changes, so the effort in helping scan through the ideas shown just may be worth it.

JonPeters.5630:

felessan.9587:

JonPeters.5630:

Lazuli.2098:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

JonPeters.5630:

Thanks. I’ll pass this on.

So, this is how it works? Cherry pick ONE PERSON’s “list of things I don’t like”, while ignoring 40 pages of really good feedback and ideas? OK. I’m done with this thread.

From this response from JonPeters and his initial post it is obvious that Anet is not going to fix their new leveling process or trait system except the individual tasks themselves.

I’m discouraged since I used to like leveling new alts but can live with just playing my level 80s instead.

To be clear we are looking at the system as a whole but recognize that changing that will take longer than is satisfying and are looking for ways to improve the current system until a time at which we can make a better overall system from the ground up. Specific suggestions on what traits are poorly placed are helpful for #1, specific suggestions on #2 are also welcome but are going to be read but not responded too right now.

Thank you, that is nice to hear.

Please be more honest and straight-forward like this in the future.

To be fair, we love being this honest and straight forward normally though it just ends up sounding like a bunch of talk and not a lot of walk and that is because it takes time to be this active on the boards. After today I’ll be a bit less “forum active” again but that means I am working on making the game better.

Or to put it another way, fixing what you needlessly broke.

Inventory overhaul incoming because players are too stupid to press I (or redefine to a mouse button).

I think the biggest thing that needs to be stressed here is that the new system needs to be thrown out almost entirely and its replacement should be based on the old system. Almost every change with this new trait system has made the game worse and I’m sure it is scaring off countless new players.

I personally think that the only thing that’s worth keeping is the trait hunts, but ONLY for Grandmaster traits. Requiring that for any more traits is excessive and makes traits a chore. Traits should unlock at level 10 or 15, with trait points being earned every 5 levels, basically equivalent to the old system.

We need a real fix and we need it soon, because I honestly think this change is probably the worst thing that has happened to the game, especially regarding new players.

Boredman.9803:

I think the biggest thing that needs to be stressed here is that the new system needs to be thrown out almost entirely and its replacement should be based on the old system. Almost every change with this new trait system has made the game worse and I’m sure it is scaring off countless new players.

I personally think that the only thing that’s worth keeping is the trait hunts, but ONLY for Grandmaster traits. Requiring that for any more traits is excessive and makes traits a chore. Traits should unlock at level 10 or 15, with trait points being earned every 5 levels, basically equivalent to the old system.

We need a real fix and we need it soon, because I honestly think this change is probably the worst thing that has happened to the game, especially regarding new players.

That’s how i originally envisioned it. I thought only the Grandmaster Traits were to be unlocked, but instead they were all locked. It was a shock when i made a new character to 30 realizing this.

I wouldn’t say it’s the worst thing. That title belongs to living story.

Traveller.7496:

Here’s again my bullet points to take the best things from both systems:

- Start giving trait points at level 10. 1 point every five levels. Shouldn’t overwhelm anyone!
- Make ONLY grandmaster traits acquired with the new system. Give Adept and Master the same way as the old system, automatically. Additionally, you can make GM traits harder to acquire since they are meant to be powerful.

Again, with the new system you more or less removed fun experimentation from traits. People get what they want to use and leave others.

This is the best, specific feedback that can be given in regard to making the system bearable again. It won’t be bearable simply by removing the most ridiculous of the tasks. That does no good when you have to wait too long to get the trait slot in the first place.

BTW, that feeling the current system creates is resentment, not accomplishment. As in I resent every second I’m stuck playing with kitten, less-interesting alts when the system was functioning perfectly well beforehand.

JonPeters.5630:

1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.
2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

if you are going to insist on using this really discordant system then at least allow players to CHOOSE then trait they want when they complete and objective for the tier of content they are in. i.e. if i do a Master Trait level activity, then allow me to choose ANY Master Trait of my choosing and not the specific one that you assigned to the activity.

Ascalonian Catacombs on story-mode unlocks at level 30. Players only can use one trait at that level, as it is now. This does not really help out with the ingame learning curve.

Players should be able to tinker with some traits in different tiers, while they have fun in their first available dungeon (not counting mini dungeons).

I like the idea of having multiple ways to unlock a trait, I think all of them should be unlockable in the gameworld.

I think a nice QoL feature would be displaying the available traits next to the zone progression on our map. It would be much easier to find them other than looking through the trait-list.

JonPeters.5630:

Hey all,

I see a lot of people talking but with a thread this long the details are often muddied by a large number of similar but differing opinions. I want to address some of the more straightforward stuff.

Trait Tier level increase. We made this change because despite what the more hardcore players like myself want, most players need to be introduced to systems more slowly so that they don’t get lost. Every time we overwhelm new players that is an opportunity for them to stop playing the game. Every time that happens it becomes harder and harder for new players to develop into longtime players. Without more longtime players it becomes hard for you and your current guilds to meet and find people to replace those who inevitably will be pulled away by real life from time to time.

That is a fine goal but why was it necessary to throw everyone else under the bus? If the new system was added along side instead of attempting to replace the previous system we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If it was just because of the reasons you mentioned then why was it necessary for the gold sink and SP sink to be added? Feels like a very heavy handed way to push people towards the new system.

The current system actually feels very jittery and nonsensical.
I think gaps in levels where nothing happens makes for a terrible experience. The upcoming changes to leveling seems like it is going to be making that worse. It doesn’t make levels where stuff happen more exciting, it just makes levels where nothing happens feel like … “eat your veggies before you can have dessert”.

• Vitality Adept Trait 6: This trait has been moved from Mount Maelstrom Map Completion, to the defeat of the Krait Witch in Timberline Falls.

Unless the Krait witch has gotten a stealth I think you went from kicking in teeth to stomping on faces with this one.

For me trying to level a new character now and play around / learn the mechanics of the game is a stressful task.

I find myself forced to think on how to allocate my skill points / gold around between the skills and trait unlocks rather than focusing on the actual interactions between skills and traits.

The added chore of adding in fetch quests to unlock certain traits really doesn’t serve as a good enough carrot for me to want to go out and seek these quests to gain those unlocks, let alone explore the game world.

Much of my early game experience was fun because I explored the pve world and the traits/skills system separately!

Overall I think combining economy, skills+traits system, exploration together in this way detracted from the whole and adds nothing to the game.

One thing I don’t understand is, why A.net try to make it look like a real hard task to back-roll the trait system. At its current stage, what you need is ctrl+z, not a fix. Revert back to the old system and then take the time to change it per fellesan’s idea.

Suggestion 1.

• Tie trait unlocks to skill points.
  • When I first started playing, I found the concept of skillpoints underwhelming and, uhm, silly. Making them unlock traits makes perfect sense.
  • Skill points have mobs with special mechanics, too, and are often located in protected places.
  • You already have skillpoints in place – minimal rework.
  • This is a moderate compromise between a complex and overwhelming, frustrating current system and the previous “cheap” system with no goldsink.
• Make skillpoints linkable and pan to them from trait info.
  • This is a transparent, bug-free, user-friendly system. You know where to go and what to do without printing out lists of trait unlocks and without all the frustration it brings.
  • It also fits naturally into the normal world exploration concept.

Suggestion 2.

• Award traits for each level-up and scrap the current system.
  • Awarding traits per level-up looks natural. It is part of the core system of character progression, not an “option”, and should be presented as such!
  • This completely solves the problem of underwhelming “dead” levels.
• Rework the current unlock events to grant something else which is nice but not required to play effectively next to other people.
  • You can use the current trait acquisition system since it’s already in place and turn it into “Skill challenges” tab in the Achievements tab.
  • These can grant AP, various skins, skillpoints, themed map loot, etc.
  • These can also grant something new… like materials required for precursor crafting hint hint.

Suggestion 3.

• Create Asuran Training Grounds instance which can teach players.
  • Put mobs with basic mechanics and advanced mechanics like Gauntlet bosses and lock traits behind them. GM traits may have bosses like Liadri idea-wise, but scaled to appropriate non-80 levels of course.
  • It makes sense.
  • It should be easy for veteran players, alt-friendly and not frustrating.
  • Put the same trait merchant for those who still don’t want to do it or can’t master it.
  • It’s new content.
  • …but it requires extra work.
  • Did I mention that it makes sense?

Note to Devs 1. I do not feel like creating, playing or leveling my non-80 alts after the April feature patch.

Note to Devs 2. Every next alt I create has a higher chance to need more Gem Store armour and weapons for a unique look.

Mr. Peters please consider making trait unlocks available for a currency other than gold and skill points so veteran players don’t have to complete the current list of chores. In gw1 elites felt powerful and meaningful, so it was worth collecting them, but most of the traits are just underwhelming compared to the tasks you have to complete.

Maybe you can make them available for Mystic coins and skill points? Or some ascended crafting material and skill points if you don’t want to push the economy, new players will not be needing these for a long time anyway.

Wayfinder.8452:

Mr. Peters please consider making trait unlocks available for a currency other than cold and skill points so veteran players don’t have to complete the current list of chores. In gw1 elites felt powerful and meaningful, so it was worth collecting them, but most of the traits are just underwhelming compared to the tasks you have to complete.

Maybe you can make them available for Mystic coins and skill points? Or some ascended crafting material and skill points if you don’t want to push the economy, new players will not be needing these for a long time anyway.

Just use karma. You get it doing everything to the point that no one outside of TP flippers could complain about having to earn it.

A couple thousand karma per trait is tolerable and gives the currency a use for veterans other than obsidian generation.

Even if the amount to unlock all the traits ends up amounting in the millions of karma, how many people really use that many of the traits anyway? Vets will have enough to unlock commonly used ones and will earn enough leveling to buy the rest organically.

It still forces people to play the game (the point of the system I’m assuming?) but now one can do anything to unlock them. Like exploring and playing the hero? Gotcha covered. Like mindlessly grinding? Sounds dull but go nuts. Ya super impatient and have to have them unlocked yesterday? Pop a karma booster, grab a flag and join the EotM train.

Sorry for the typo.

Again another patch that wants to force you to do PvE.

Didn’t they say you are supposed to play the game the way you want to?
I don’t CARE for Pve. I don’t WANT to do PvE. Let me just play WvW in peace for kitten’s sake.

Now i’m leveling an alt and unlocking all the traits is 43g.

It’s a lot for one that does only roaming, ofc if you do dungeons and all that it’s not a problem, try to do only roaming for a week and see how much gold you have in your pockets.

Just hoping they’ll revert something in the next feature patch because it’s really not fair

JonPeters.5630:

TLDR;
We added this system as a direct result from the horizontal progression CDI. We are always reading your feedback, however, we don’t always have time to respond right away or action it quickly. We updated some trait unlocks in the past but we can do more. How can you help?
1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.
2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

Instead of picking obscure Champions in areas, why not use the World Bosses instead?

There are far more people doing those.

If the intention is for newbies to learn about the game, then learning about the different World Bosses while leveling up is a good thing, rather than wait till lvl 80 and start grinding for bonus chests.

I play casually and there are times I cannot find/want a party, mostly I play solo and like it that way, I really hate drama. I also do not like PVP or WVW, I like PVE and I am not opposed to running around the Maps to unlock them, however I am just not going to make any new toons. I got 2 one made before the change and one I re-rolled after…Sorry but I am going to level the one made before and forget the other. I do not have the Gold or Skill points to buy the traits and to unlock even low level traits…Forget it. Truthfully the new system has allowed me to catch up on my reading and I really do not play much if any at all now..the one thing that has kept me from quitting the game all together is no subscription fee… if you change that I will quit, and probably others as well…

MrIllusion.5304:

JonPeters.5630:

TLDR;
We added this system as a direct result from the horizontal progression CDI. We are always reading your feedback, however, we don’t always have time to respond right away or action it quickly. We updated some trait unlocks in the past but we can do more. How can you help?
1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.
2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

Instead of picking obscure Champions in areas, why not use the World Bosses instead?

There are far more people doing those.

In a half-hearted attempt to get people to travel to obscure areas, obviously.

Solution:
Step 1: Revert to the old system until you figure out a better one.
Step 2: Overhaul the old system. If you don’t know how to do it this thread provides you with great ideas.

I was thinking in creating an alt to try out the new leveling and reward structure system as soon as the new feature pack will be introduced, but I am reconsidering, because I didn’t know what exactly happened to the trait system with the april feature pack until I read it here. I just thought the new Grandmaster traits have been affected with a change which was okay for me, because they were new… an addition to the existing ones that could be easily obtained.

Why have you put adapt and master traits into such a complicated and tedious system to acquire them?

It is such a non intuitive system.

I don’t like to feel forced to do any particular content that you want me to do, just to get an adept or master trait? (Eg. obsidian sanctum.. I don’t get it why you force us to do it for world map completion to begin with, but now also for a trait…wait…what? Or doing stories or dungeons… why?)

In my opinion once you reached lvl 80 (at least at that point) you should have all your traits FOR FREE, even if you did not hunt for them.

I remember leveling my pve mesmer after launch was quite painful, because especially the mesmer depends on its traits.. it wasn’t fun and enjoayble until a certain level was reached (it got better after lvl 20, and then improved a lot with all new trait points I could spend.. after lvl 40 the experience changed to a way better one like at the start).
I can’t and don’t want to imagine how unpleasant it is to level one now.
Just wow.

You know you have to do something, the system right now is not a good one. By reverting to the old system, you can undo the harm you are doing right now with the new system. And then you can improve or renew that system or make a even better one, but you should stop it for now. You really should.

:-(

felessan.9587:

I believe this may be more in line with what players were hoping for. Also note, many of the tasks are BELOW the level where you will unlock a trait tier – this is intentional. I believe you will see better results if people can have immediate access to the content and use that to fuel growth, rather than being gated by their level for content they should have access to already.

Notice that most of these tasks are vague and open-ended, designed to compliment a “play as you want” style. Traits are gained in progression without having to force too much checklist style exploration. If a trait is not listed here, it’s because I personally consider it to be at least feasible. Others should comment as necessary.

Suggestions for new trait unlocks:

1-I: Obsidian Sanctum. Complete three jumping puzzles. Any puzzles.

1-II: Inferno’s Needle. Help the Charr fight the flame legion! Complete 10 Flame Legion-themed hearts

1-III: 100% Gendarran Field. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Kryta

1-V: 100% Blazeridge Steppes. Defeat a Champion creature in Brisban Wildlands

1-VII: Ogre Camp. Locate 10 “camp” POIs

1-VIII: Citadel of Flame Defeat a Champion creature in Fireheart Rise

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 2)
2-II: Twilight Arbor. Help the Sylvari fight the Nightmare Court! Complete 10 Nightmare Court-themed renown hearts.

2-VI: Lornar’s Pass. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

2-VII: Hylek Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Sparkfly Fen

2-X: Personal Story Forging the Pact. Complete one group event in five of the following: Sparkfly, Maelstrom, Timberline, Frostgorge, Iron Marches, Fireheart

2-XI: Crucible of Eternity. Secure Infinity Coil

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 3)
3-II: Battle for Claw Island. Complete level 28 personal story (racial arc)

3-III: Stonegaze Spire. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

3-VI: Victurus the Shattered. Locate 10 “ruins” POIs

3-V: 100% Fields of Ruin. Defeat a Champion creature in the Fields of Ruin

3-VI: Giant Blood Ooze. Help the Norn fight the Sons of Svanir! Complete 10 Sons of Svanir-themed renown hearts.

3-VII: Dredge Camp. Defeat a Champion creature in Bloodtide Coast

3-VIII: Sorrow’s Embrace. Defeat a Champion creature in Timberline Falls

3-X: Battle for Fort Trinity. Locate Vizier’s Tower

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 4)
4-I: Light in the Darkness. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in the Shiverpeak Mountains

4-II: Tytone Perch. Find Beaker

4-IV: 100% Harathi Hinterlands. Help the humans fight centaurs! Complete 10 centaur-themed renown hearts

4-VI: Krait Witch in Timberline Falls. Complete five “commune” challenges in the Maguuma Jungle

4-VIII: Chest in Arundon Vale. Locate Diedre’s Garden

4-X: Source of Orr. Chest in Arundon Vale

4-XI: Honor of the Waves. Defeat one of the Dragon Champion world bosses (Teq, Shatterer, Jormag)

Problem: Trait unlocks are tedious (line 5)
5-I: Caudecus’s Manor. Complete five “commune” skill challenges in Kryta

5-III: Retribution. Complete five “combat” skill challenges in Ascalon

5-VI: 100% Dredgehaunt Cliffs. Help the Asura! Complete 10 Inquest-themed renown hearts

5-V: Champ Ice Wurm. Defeat a Champion creature in Lornar’s Pass

5-VI: Lord Ignius the Eternal. Defeat a Champion creature in Snowden Drifts

5-VIII: Infinity Coil Commander. Defeat a Champion creature in Mount Maelstrom

5-IX: Admiral Taidha Covington. Defeat any of the 50-70 world bosses.

5-XI: Overgrown Grub. Complete 10 “combat” skill challenges in Orr

5-XII: Ruined City of Arah. Complete 10 “commune” skill challenges in Orr

Something like that could work very well.
And in addition to it, if you were not able to do all these things to unlock the traits until you are lvl 80, it shouldn’t matter and you can unlock the remaining traits for free at this point/ they unlock automatically when you hit lvl 80.

Problem: Traits are too complicated for new players

Solution 1: Explain traits better ingame

Solution 2: Make them even more complicated by instead of visiting 1 vendor they must now complete 65 different tasks! Tasks that

1. are 25 levels higher than the tier it belongs to
2. require you to do the Pv? that you otherwise would avoid at all costs
3. risk facing ganking hordes
4. require going into dungeons under-prepared
5. will take hours of map completion for one trait
6. involve waiting hours for events in map (thanks to megaservers)
7. are downright too bugged to complete
8. you get to do over and over again for each alt

either that or

1. spend the amount of gold that only someone with an existing level 80 would have +
2. spend the amount of skillpoints only someone who’s had a level 80 for many many months would have

Mission: Appeal to New Players Complete!

The system used now is very player-unfriendly, for a new player and for the existing player as well. Usability is one of some very important things for all players which seems nearly completely forgotten in this (new) trait system.