Guild Wars 2

Here’s what I have observed.

I created a new character – Ranger, since I never rolled one before. I also have non-80 level Thief, Mesmer, and Eng. At no point will I go out of my way to get a Trait that I don’t think I need. So, it means I will work towards a single Trait spec and nothing else. If, in my adventures through Tyria, I happen to inadvertently unlock some random Trait, I might experiment – otherwise I won’t bother. I need the SP for things other than Traits.

Is this what was intended when Anet designed this new system? I doubt it. But there you have it.

Illysharia.7286:

The “Communicating With You” thread was supposed to put an end to these problems. What happened to all the effort Chris Whiteside put in hashing it out with the community? I thought he was apologetic and sincere enough that there would be a genuine effort to, you know, communicate.

And very likely he is. But as awesome as Chris is, he’s not able to field every concern, and talk with authority about every part of the game. Neither can Gaile, whose job it is to try to talk with the community . . . whether or not the community wants to hear what she has to say.

So far, there’s also Jon Peters who shows up and discusses design bits here and there, but outside those three you don’t see much general communication. And Chris has the CDI project under his helming so he probably has that taking up a lot of his attention cycles.

Yet, every person who likes them trying even a little is accompanied by two more complaining about it. Some of them just seem to be trying to complain the players aren’t getting told what they want to hear, and aren’t grasping some of the reality here.

As it was stated twice, by red names, this system isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. What they’re looking for is another way of doing Traits & Masteries which is closer to working as we want it to.

At this point, though, I’m really wanting to advocate to them to just cave in on everything in the forums and wash their hands of decision-making. Let the players run the game and when the complaints start, remind them “gee, since you all thought we were doing a crappy job, we figured you should get the chance”.

Labjax.2465:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

The problem is the bad change in all of those situations you mentioned. Yes the longer it goes on the worse it gets but I have never seen a company revert a change and fix something later. With out anyone ever actually doing that there is no way of knowing how people will really react. Yes of course people will talk crap about that bad change for years but they would do that anyways. Because it was a bad change. In my opinion its better to suck it up and later is better than never. I think the real reason we do not see changes like roll backs is because some people are stubborn. Especially in the corporate sector. Many people would rather go down with the ship rather than admit they were wrong. It doesn’t make sense but that is what I have seen in my life experiences. It is also backed up by watching all the crap in the news where CEOs run companies in to the ground and walk away with millions. To them they never made any mistakes. They made millions. It doesn’t matter that the company failed.

I don’t think it needs demonstration to see what the horrible consequences would be. It’s easy to say, “They should just try it and see what happens” when you’re not the one whose job it is to keep a company afloat.

If it was better before, then there is only one consequence that can happen. The game goes to a better state. How is that horrible. It may be horrible for the few peoples egos that were involved in making the bad change but that is all. I’ve been around long enough to realize that the only reason horrible changes do not get rolled back is because of egos. Worrying that doing the right thing will hurt the rep of a product when the change already did that and is still doing that is just being stubborn. If a company like Coca Cola can realize that their customers do not like the change and then roll back later then a video game company can do the same. Again I will say the reason it does not is because of egos.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Illysharia.7286:

The “Communicating With You” thread was supposed to put an end to these problems. What happened to all the effort Chris Whiteside put in hashing it out with the community? I thought he was apologetic and sincere enough that there would be a genuine effort to, you know, communicate.

And very likely he is. But as awesome as Chris is, he’s not able to field every concern, and talk with authority about every part of the game. Neither can Gaile, whose job it is to try to talk with the community . . . whether or not the community wants to hear what she has to say.

So far, there’s also Jon Peters who shows up and discusses design bits here and there, but outside those three you don’t see much general communication. And Chris has the CDI project under his helming so he probably has that taking up a lot of his attention cycles.

Yet, every person who likes them trying even a little is accompanied by two more complaining about it. Some of them just seem to be trying to complain the players aren’t getting told what they want to hear, and aren’t grasping some of the reality here.

As it was stated twice, by red names, this system isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. What they’re looking for is another way of doing Traits & Masteries which is closer to working as we want it to.

At this point, though, I’m really wanting to advocate to them to just cave in on everything in the forums and wash their hands of decision-making. Let the players run the game and when the complaints start, remind them “gee, since you all thought we were doing a crappy job, we figured you should get the chance”.

There is many trait unlocks that are still broken and there seems to be very little if any work on the devs part to fix them. Fixing 1 or 2 of the unlocks to be slightly better every 1-2 months is not enough and shows the lack of even trying on the devs part. All of the trait unlocks should have been corrected by now if they were really trying. We have all heard the devs since launch say over and over its coming with tons of things and they have not delivered. People are done waiting and tired of excuses.

The new trait system is broken in many ways. If its going to stay then they need to fix it now, not in 2 years. There has been tons of ways mentioned on how to fix it in this thread. Now its on the devs to actually spend the time and fix it or roll back. When they actually start doing something besides ruining the game with horrible thoughtless changes then people will maybe stop being so harsh on the handful of replies the red names give.

GuzziHero.2467:

This game feels more and more like an unrequited love.

I love GW2 and it keeps going its own way, expecting me to give up.

I’m kitten close to doing so.

---

Also, I am sorry I ‘yelled’ earlier. It is due to frustration caused by passion for GW2, being blunted by bad creative design decisions.

I literally visit the forum every day just to see if any progress has been made on the traits and haven’t played in 2 monthsish and don’t plan on doing so until they fix it.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

There is many trait unlocks that are still broken and there seems to be very little if any work on the devs part to fix them. Fixing 1 or 2 of the unlocks to be slightly better every 1-2 months is not enough and shows the lack of even trying on the devs part. All of the trait unlocks should have been corrected by now if they were really trying. We have all heard the devs since launch say over and over its coming with tons of things and they have not delivered. People are done waiting and tired of excuses.

Then “people” should storm the offices and demand a revolution. And film it all for Youtube.

The new trait system is broken in many ways. If its going to stay then they need to fix it now, not in 2 years. There has been tons of ways mentioned on how to fix it in this thread. Now its on the devs to actually spend the time and fix it or roll back. When they actually start doing something besides ruining the game with horrible thoughtless changes then people will maybe stop being so harsh on the handful of replies the red names give.

Given statements like this, I suppose you have a point. I guess rolling it all back to release would be the best move. All of it. Remove champion bags, remove ascended, remove Living Story, remove Tequatl/Wurm, and erase Kasmeer/Jory. Start over and try again. It’ll be fun.

Shall we stop and be honest here? I’ll drop the sarcasm for now. Trait Masteries were a mess and terrible from day one. Several didn’t work right, several more were pointless, and most of what was left was so situational it might as well not exist. Worst of all, they were just . . . kind of there. And the worst part was the privilege to pay a nice sum of gold to find out your Grandmaster traits were mostly junk. Which brings me to the next choice:

Delete the whole Trait system and start over.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

There is many trait unlocks that are still broken and there seems to be very little if any work on the devs part to fix them. Fixing 1 or 2 of the unlocks to be slightly better every 1-2 months is not enough and shows the lack of even trying on the devs part. All of the trait unlocks should have been corrected by now if they were really trying. We have all heard the devs since launch say over and over its coming with tons of things and they have not delivered. People are done waiting and tired of excuses.

Then “people” should storm the offices and demand a revolution. And film it all for Youtube.

The new trait system is broken in many ways. If its going to stay then they need to fix it now, not in 2 years. There has been tons of ways mentioned on how to fix it in this thread. Now its on the devs to actually spend the time and fix it or roll back. When they actually start doing something besides ruining the game with horrible thoughtless changes then people will maybe stop being so harsh on the handful of replies the red names give.

Given statements like this, I suppose you have a point. I guess rolling it all back to release would be the best move. All of it. Remove champion bags, remove ascended, remove Living Story, remove Tequatl/Wurm, and erase Kasmeer/Jory. Start over and try again. It’ll be fun.

Shall we stop and be honest here? I’ll drop the sarcasm for now. Trait Masteries were a mess and terrible from day one. Several didn’t work right, several more were pointless, and most of what was left was so situational it might as well not exist. Worst of all, they were just . . . kind of there. And the worst part was the privilege to pay a nice sum of gold to find out your Grandmaster traits were mostly junk. Which brings me to the next choice:

Delete the whole Trait system and start over.

I’m not sure why you make fun of and then agree with what I wrote. You have me confused.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I’m not sure why you make fun of and then agree with what I wrote. You have me confused.

Just because I agree with an idea does not exclude it from being a really bad idea.

tofumon.5924:

GuzziHero.2467:

This game feels more and more like an unrequited love.

I love GW2 and it keeps going its own way, expecting me to give up.

I’m kitten close to doing so.

---

Also, I am sorry I ‘yelled’ earlier. It is due to frustration caused by passion for GW2, being blunted by bad creative design decisions.

I literally visit the forum every day just to see if any progress has been made on the traits and haven’t played in 2 monthsish and don’t plan on doing so until they fix it.

I’m right there with you but I haven’t logged in since the first feature patch and quit playing a few months before that. I was hoping the first feature patch could bring me back. It didn’t. The second patch has pushed me farther away. For some reason I have hope in me that arenanet will eventually be able to give the game that GW2 had the potential to become at launch.

If they rolled back the trait changes(except for the trait respect button of course) and now the NPE changes I might think about coming back as there has been a lot of changes I really like. I could live with the cons that came with the megaserver even though I think there was way better ways to achieve the same goals there. There is other bad changes I can live with because they aren’t quite game breaking to me even if I don’t like them. If they reverted the traits and the NPE changes it would get me to come back as it would show that they actually do care about the players and not just making up metrics.

I don’t feel arenanet needs to fix every change they have done to fit my personal wants and needs. They just need to fix the stuff that is obviously bad for the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I’m not sure why you make fun of and then agree with what I wrote. You have me confused.

Just because I agree with an idea does not exclude it from being a really bad idea.

what idea is that, rolling back a bad change or fixing the broken parts of it? Because that is literally all that I asked for.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I’m not sure why you make fun of and then agree with what I wrote. You have me confused.

Just because I agree with an idea does not exclude it from being a really bad idea.

what idea is that, rolling back a bad change or fixing the broken parts of it? Because that is literally all that I asked for.

. . . yes.

Seriously, there do exist ideas which sound simple/useful which . . . once they hit practice . . . fail miserably to do anything but mess things up further. The first warning sign is when I start agreeing with it.

So you are saying rolling back will mess things up further and that fixing all the broken trait unlocks will mess things up further. I don’t see how fixing the broken trait unlocks can mess things up more. If its already broken and its near impossible to unlock with out spending gold and skill points, how much worse can they make it? You have less faith in their abilities than I do at this point.

I’m not sure how they can mess up going back to what it was before except that it would ruin parts of their NPE which is trash also and needs to get flushed as well.

For those of you saying that Anet can’t roll back the changes to the trait system because it sets a bad precedent, I have two words:

New Coke.

That debacle likely occurred before a significant number of GW2 players were born, but it stands as an example of a big company caving in to customer demand. For those who don’t know, aren’t sure, or would rather not go to the trouble of looking it up, in April 1985 Coca Cola changed its formula and shoved the change down everyone’s throats. They did this, apparently, after extensive rounds of taste-testing and as an attempt to grab more of the market from Coke’s competitors.

It backfired, spectacularly, and just 79 days later, they reintroduced Classic Coke.

Come on, ArenaNet, just roll back the change already.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

So you are saying rolling back will mess things up further and that fixing all the broken trait unlocks will mess things up further. I don’t see how fixing the broken trait unlocks can mess things up more. If its already broken and its near impossible to unlock with out spending gold and skill points, how much worse can they make it? You have less faith in their abilities than I do at this point.

Well, what can I say, the forum changed my mind away from thinking they ever have good ideas at all.

I’m not sure how they can mess up going back to what it was before except that it would ruin parts of their NPE which is trash also and needs to get flushed as well.

Do not test if they can possibly mess this up even worse. It can, indeed, happen.

Vethaera.6319:

For those of you saying that Anet can’t roll back the changes to the trait system because it sets a bad precedent, I have two words:

New Coke.

I didn’t find it that objectionable when it happened. I also find it weird the more I think about the whole debacle because I understand they went from cane sugar to HFCS . . .

While Pepsi successfully markets the “Throwback” line which uses cane sugar, and one of the most popular drinks around here is “Mexican Coke”, which is . . . yes, Coca-Cola with cane sugar.

Weird.

Come on, ArenaNet, just roll back the change already.

I’d really rather they not, and either fix things broken, unbind some of those Masteries from events which never get done (Gates of Arah, Overgrown Grub…) or hire some interns to draw up a proposal for how to make it possible to keep this system’s basic structure while shaving away the objectionable parts.

Not that I have faith it will go over any better than what exists now, given what I read on the forums daily.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vethaera.6319:

For those of you saying that Anet can’t roll back the changes to the trait system because it sets a bad precedent, I have two words:

New Coke.

I didn’t find it that objectionable when it happened. I also find it weird the more I think about the whole debacle because I understand they went from cane sugar to HFCS . . .

While Pepsi successfully markets the “Throwback” line which uses cane sugar, and one of the most popular drinks around here is “Mexican Coke”, which is . . . yes, Coca-Cola with cane sugar.

Weird.

Come on, ArenaNet, just roll back the change already.

I’d really rather they not, and either fix things broken, unbind some of those Masteries from events which never get done (Gates of Arah, Overgrown Grub…) or hire some interns to draw up a proposal for how to make it possible to keep this system’s basic structure while shaving away the objectionable parts.

Not that I have faith it will go over any better than what exists now, given what I read on the forums daily.

you are ignoring a lot of the problems with your simple answer.
locking every trait is too much for new players, most of them just dont get them or have many missing traits.
Its exactly the same for every charachter, thats boring. I can level up to 80 like 10 different ways, go to different zones, do wvw, do spvp, craft, explore, do it slow with dailies, burn some kill boosters and look for bonus exp Run my favorite chain repeatedly. etc.
the unlock on these traits is either grind gold, or do them again, 65? traits 8 proffessions, thats a lot of monotony.

bandaids can only make it less annoying, it cant actually make it a good system. I dont think a dev should ever aim for a moderately annoying game system

phys.7689:

you are ignoring a lot of the problems with your simple answer.
locking every trait is too much for new players, most of them just dont get them or have many missing traits.
Its exactly the same for every charachter, thats boring. I can level up to 80 like 10 different ways, go to different zones, do wvw, do spvp, craft, explore, do it slow with dailies, burn some kill boosters and look for bonus exp Run my favorite chain repeatedly. etc.
the unlock on these traits is either grind gold, or do them again, 65? traits 8 proffessions, thats a lot of monotony.

bandaids can only make it less annoying, it cant actually make it a good system. I dont think a dev should ever aim for a moderately annoying game system

I’m not ignoring a lot of the problems. I just don’t care enough to do the work when:

- It won’t be implemented. There is no way in Grenth’s Blue Hall anyone would let me get close enough to a game design process to actually have impact on what was made.

- Nobody is going to like it. Let’s face it, any idea I come up with is going to be trash because . . . frankly, I’m an idiot.

- Everyone is going to find faults with it. See above. Because I am an idiot, I likely am going to have at least a dozen problems with how things would have to be implemented.

- Even if the above three weren’t a problem, it’d probably break as soon as people got their hands on it.

Come on guys tell me: Will you change this system sooner? Otherwise I will start to buy my traits don’t make me feel like a dumb with a change after I bought them.

I’ve did some thinking about this, And i think the following is what makes them most annoying: Time loss. You loose a hell of a lot of time to get traits. You go to zone, you wait for event, sometimes event doenst even spawn, might fail cause group event (you are alone), or just because a bug. You go to another map and same might happen. After this you lost tons of time just for, nothing. With 65 traits, that can become a big grind, (on top of leveling to 80 and other stuff). I just found out that getting a chest in fireheart rise gives a trait. If all traits where like this, (to unlock them), it would be amazing. You explore to get stronger. And no time gates (events are time gates with their respawn timers) at all. You go there when you want to. End of story, trait unlocked. Some basic jumping puzzles, Well hidden veteran bosses, quickly respawning events should unlock traits imo (rather then current system). All basic and master traits should be relative easy, only grandmaster can be made as a time gate (still has to be small though) grind. Only if these suggestions are somehow implemented, I think making alts (not mains) will be healthy again. You made almost everything account bound, (great change), to then nerf ‘making alts’. Kinda contradicting not? I mean how much of Arenanet got 3x 80 ranger (two wich had to grind traits)? Any of you there? I don’t think so to be honest. I have more playtime then any dev I think (I work parttime), and so far all devs i met, or saw, had very low ap count/hours played, so unless someone breaks that trend, I don’t believe anyone at Anet plays the game hardcore (60+ hours a week). Wich in turn means, that if you got less time then me, it should be EVEN more obvious to you then to me, how much grind (time loss) traits actually means, and how few fun it is. Especially to repeat twice. And to wait for events that don’t spawn, or take ages (6 min escort, just giving an example = time loss).

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I’ve did some thinking about this, And i think the following is what makes them most annoying: Time loss.

The most annoying thing to me is that earning unlocks by deed instead of buying them directs your play.

We used to be able to plot our own course through the game. We can still do that, but only if we pay for our traits or play without them. If we want to earn traits as we level up, we’re set off on a weird arbitrary course through the game instead of one that we would’ve liked.

I check back every so often in hopes that this will be reverted. I seriously doubt it will, but I used to love the game and the freedom it gave me.

Saw an Anet post, asking about what are the most offensive trait unlocks etc.

I dislike being so negative but…the entire system is offensive to me. Small changes would most likely do nothing for me. The only “small” change I can imagine happening would be removing skill point costs and lowering gold cost to buy traits, so at least one would not have to jump through hoops doing prescribed/required chores to get traits. I doubt even this will be done.

The old system was fun for me, the new system is horrendously tedious for me, completely anti-fun.

I rarely play now, and would never consider making a new character as it is. I am lucky to have 7 level 80’s made previous to the trait change, but as I have been turned off to the direction the game has taken, I play very little now.

Up to the time of the patch I played daily. Now….very infrequently and for a short period of time.

I’d actually like to thank Anet here, for I have been taught a valuable lesson.

In any game I play in the future, I shall never make a second (or more) character. Not after we have been **** over a barrel with Ascended gear grind, these unnecessary trait changes, Megaservers and removal of content.

Okay, how does Megaservers and the unnecessary gear grind spoil additional characters?

Megaservers, not so. Gear grind definitely.

What I was referring to, in the main, was the undeniable change in the core character and design of the game. What I am referring to is investing my time and interest in a game to the extent that I have with GW2, only to have the game change completely.

. . . you remind me of about four friends who quit playing Minecraft when Prerelease 1.8 (“The Adventure Update”) happened. And never forgave me for sticking with it (mostly because I had just started).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

phys.7689:

you are ignoring a lot of the problems with your simple answer.
locking every trait is too much for new players, most of them just dont get them or have many missing traits.
Its exactly the same for every charachter, thats boring. I can level up to 80 like 10 different ways, go to different zones, do wvw, do spvp, craft, explore, do it slow with dailies, burn some kill boosters and look for bonus exp Run my favorite chain repeatedly. etc.
the unlock on these traits is either grind gold, or do them again, 65? traits 8 proffessions, thats a lot of monotony.

bandaids can only make it less annoying, it cant actually make it a good system. I dont think a dev should ever aim for a moderately annoying game system

I’m not ignoring a lot of the problems. I just don’t care enough to do the work when:

- It won’t be implemented. There is no way in Grenth’s Blue Hall anyone would let me get close enough to a game design process to actually have impact on what was made.

- Nobody is going to like it. Let’s face it, any idea I come up with is going to be trash because . . . frankly, I’m an idiot.

- Everyone is going to find faults with it. See above. Because I am an idiot, I likely am going to have at least a dozen problems with how things would have to be implemented.

- Even if the above three weren’t a problem, it’d probably break as soon as people got their hands on it.

Because sometimes +1 just isn’t big enough.

Paul.4081:

Here’s another lesson, the forum has carrots too. They delete/infract the onions but keep the carrots. You’re welcome :P

That’s fine. Only reason I’m still here is because I am still finishing a new chara I made to try out NPE, and because of the promise of improvement. If the latter hasn’t come by the time the former is complete, I’m gone anyway.

OK, I caved and decided rather than buying traits for my new necro i’d really try to go out in the field and unlock them. I wanted a basic adept skill and it sent me to Hirathi Hinterlands.
Ok.
Even this wouldn’t have been so bad but using the telescope to show me where I need to go, it told me about an event and pointed me to a waypoint. I got up there and… could not for the life of me find who I was supposed to help. I first completed an unrelated (and very slow event) assuming it was the one the trait pointed me to find. Not so. I more carefully read the npc’s name. I looked more.
After about 20min of trying to meet this goal just by playing the game, I got frustrated and wiki’d the npc and event.

I still could not find the blasted thing. I’ve even gotten 100% map completion and definitely recalled the enemy, I just couldn’t remember how I got there because I had wandered there naturally.
One hour later and I’m very disinclined to try and unlock this or any other trait. I used to be able to do what I wanted freely and get rewarded for it. Now I have to go out of my way, even look outside the game for directions and I still don’t have my trait. How would this feel for someone new to the game?

Attached is where the trait pointed me to go. Help Shining Blade Kimber defeat Kol Skullsmasher. Wiki location for the event: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Ourobon

ps- the fact I can’t even touch a grandmaster trait until level 60 sucks. I’ve heard a lot of complaining here but now that it’s really affecting me it just sucks. I wanted to slowly enjoy my level up, not be rushed ahead just so I can access what my necro can do. This cap needs to be lowered, if not for everyone at least for people who already have a level 80 and want their traits.

pps- before anyone says i’m an idiot for not going further north, i’m an idiot for not going further north. I found the event. But I wasted an hour and an hour’s worth of patience because I thought the telescope would point me to the event, not the waypoint in the general area.

eyestrain.3056:

ps- the fact I can’t even touch a grandmaster trait until level 60 sucks. I’ve heard a lot of complaining here but now that it’s really affecting me it just sucks. I wanted to slowly enjoy my level up, not be rushed ahead just so I can access what my necro can do. This cap needs to be lowered, if not for everyone at least for people who already have a level 80 and want their traits.

This is false. You can’t touch a grandmaster trait until level 80. The master tier unlocks at level 60. Source.

Guhracie.3419:

eyestrain.3056:

ps- the fact I can’t even touch a grandmaster trait until level 60 sucks. I’ve heard a lot of complaining here but now that it’s really affecting me it just sucks. I wanted to slowly enjoy my level up, not be rushed ahead just so I can access what my necro can do. This cap needs to be lowered, if not for everyone at least for people who already have a level 80 and want their traits.

This is false. You can’t touch a grandmaster trait until level 80. The master tier unlocks at level 60. Source.

i’m on a winning streak tonight!
(i meant the second level ones but since i always discuss builds in terms of 6 6 2 0 0 etc i don’t know the names)

Well, my NPE elementalist hit 80 this morning. She has 23 skill points and 11 traits unlocked. Whee.

eyestrain.3056:

OK, I caved and decided rather than buying traits for my new necro i’d really try to go out in the field and unlock them. I wanted a basic adept skill and it sent me to Hirathi Hinterlands.
Ok.
Even this wouldn’t have been so bad but using the telescope to show me where I need to go, it told me about an event and pointed me to a waypoint. I got up there and… could not for the life of me find who I was supposed to help. I first completed an unrelated (and very slow event) assuming it was the one the trait pointed me to find. Not so. I more carefully read the npc’s name. I looked more.
After about 20min of trying to meet this goal just by playing the game, I got frustrated and wiki’d the npc and event.

I still could not find the blasted thing. I’ve even gotten 100% map completion and definitely recalled the enemy, I just couldn’t remember how I got there because I had wandered there naturally.
One hour later and I’m very disinclined to try and unlock this or any other trait. I used to be able to do what I wanted freely and get rewarded for it. Now I have to go out of my way, even look outside the game for directions and I still don’t have my trait. How would this feel for someone new to the game?

Attached is where the trait pointed me to go. Help Shining Blade Kimber defeat Kol Skullsmasher. Wiki location for the event: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Ourobon

ps- the fact I can’t even touch a grandmaster trait until level 60 sucks. I’ve heard a lot of complaining here but now that it’s really affecting me it just sucks. I wanted to slowly enjoy my level up, not be rushed ahead just so I can access what my necro can do. This cap needs to be lowered, if not for everyone at least for people who already have a level 80 and want their traits.

pps- before anyone says i’m an idiot for not going further north, i’m an idiot for not going further north. I found the event. But I wasted an hour and an hour’s worth of patience because I thought the telescope would point me to the event, not the waypoint in the general area.

Fighting him alone is also almost an impossible fight unless you are a complete boss. Eventually he will down you by yourself. There is one vaguely in an area in Dredgehaunt that I have yet to get because the directions in the game are too vague.

Gaile, if you are watching this, here is a copy and past of posts breaking down skill point requirements and level requirements for trait unlocks. The crumbs of trait unlock changes Jon tossed to us have not been added. I posted it earlier in the thread but I doubt you, or Jon, saw it. I have no clue if it is going to be seen now:
~~~~~~~

How many trait points are needed: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/page/31#post4214959

Drop rates for farmed scrolls of knowledge https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/page/31#post4214929,

My wife’s Google document showing the level inequality between player and traits (http://tinyurl.com/q6vgf93)

… were posted to show how difficult it would be for a new player and, hoping against hope, that Anet pays attention to it.

The Google document does not tell it all. For instance, it did not address the variances in difficulty between traits at the same level, from “hey, cool, I stumbled over this as I played” to “holy hell, I’ll have to beg my guildies for help with this”, to “%#$@!! I’ll never be able to do that”, to “the effing thing is BUGGED”.

Last night I decided to have a go at getting some traits for my NPE elementalist, who, as previously mentioned, only has 11 unlocked at level 80.

TL;DR – she now has 1 new trait out of 3 attempted unlocks for a total of 12 traits at level 80.

First attempt: I decided to go for the adept Arcane trait Renewing Stamina. ‘Defeat Foulbear chieftain and her elite guards’ over in Fields of Ruin. Seemed simple enough. So I went there and looked for the Foulbear chieftain but couldn’t find her. So I looked for her on the GW2 wiki/Google and eventually discovered she’s part of a series of events. Okay… so… how does one trigger these events? Talk to some NPCs. Okay. Talked to one, but he advised ‘patience’ and told me to go help the humans against some poisoners. Never could find the other NPC. Then someone in map chat said, and I quote, ‘why is foulbear always bugged’ and someone else replied ‘because anet’. At this point I’d been wandering to and fro for the better part of an hour, had done the poison event and fought both big wasps, so I decided to give up on this one and try another.

0/1.

Second attempt: Let’s try another adept Arcane trait – Windborne Dagger! ‘Find and defeat Lord Ignius the Eternal at Venison Pass within Lornar’s Pass.’ Okee doke. As I’m searching I run into an event, and when it’s over someone said, ’I’m gonna go kill him!’ so I followed this person, thinking maybe he was going for Ignius, but we wound up at a chest which evidently was supposed to be guarded, but the guardian was dead. After we looted the chest, I said, “Is this where Ignius is supposed to be?” and he said, "Nope, that’s a dwarven artifact chain down by the lake.’ And I said, ‘argh.’ Just then, woop, a vet spawned – wham bam! Double woop, a champ! /e sing ‘Ya picked a bad time to respawn ol’ champ.’

So then I wandered down by the lake, and paused to consult the Sacred Oracle of the Wiki/Googles. Two NPCs start the chain of events leading to the spawning of my target. Okay. Shortly thereafter, I found them – but neither of them seemed inclined to do anything. So I hung out whilst chatting with some guildies, and then, lo and behold, the two NPCs began to confer, and the first event started. I informed my guildies, and they decided to join me even though they are on pre-April characters. All went well and soon my NPE ele had a new trait.

1/2.

Third attempt: My guildies (a level 80 engi and a level 64 ele) and I decided to go for one of the Grandmaster traits. For eles, it would be Fresh Air. ‘Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx.’ Sounded simple enough. So we ran the level 64 ele from Lornar’s Pass down to the Straits of Devastation and headed out toward where Scholar Fryxx was supposed to be. First we fought a champion risen something or other. It respawned while we’re still looking for Fryxx. Eventually I found the cave where Fryxx was purported to be, and we all went in. I’d been there before, long, long ago, but didn’t remember what to do. The 80 ele had to go, and the (now) level 65 ele also had to go. So I poked around and eventually consulted the Oracle, and eventually noticed the NPC at the mouth of the cave who would wash off the corruption, and so on and so forth, and after many, many, many attempts at disabling 6 asuran data pads within the span of 10 minutes I gave up and went to bed. Right before that, though, another person showed up. Gasp! And I had the hopeful thought that between us we could do this thing. Alas. This person went straight to the force field, poked around a bit, then poof, was gone. So.

1/3.

I can understand the Grandmaster traits being all trolled up, but the Adept stuff? Fight a champ four links deep in a chain of events? Boo, anet. Boo.

Meanwhile, my early 30s sylvari necro, patiently waiting his turn at bat, already has all the blue and green traits unlocked because he was born before the April Trolls Feature Pack Trait System Redesign. As was my mid-40s asuran warrior.

Conclusion: Do I feel inclined to buy more gems for more character slots so I can create more trait-locked alts? Ha ha ha ha ha no.

Tachenon.5270:

Well, my NPE elementalist hit 80 this morning. She has 23 skill points and 11 traits unlocked. Whee.

Edit on 12/22/2014: I think the amount of traits I earned via unlocks was 37 or so, not 41. I had lost my unlock list.

My experience leveling a new character to 80 with full traits:

I decided to give the new trait system a fair shake on a post April character, buying as few traits as possible. I dedicated all play time on my new Guard to unlocking traits. I managed to unlock 41 of them by:

• Being a huge PITA to other players: badgering people in map, guild, LFG. I did dungeon unlocks w/ 2-3 pugs per dungeon, starting when I was approx. lvl 60. You can imagine how that went.
• Taking some time (sometimes days) to get enough people to kill lesser done Champs like Kol Skullsmasher.
• Waiting for Anet to fix bugged events, coming back a few times a day for weeks. That worked with the Dredge Commissar, I gave up on the Foul Bear Chieftain after over 3 weeks.
• Wait for spawns, check repeatedly.

I bought the rest with my stash of scrolls:

• The 50% falling damage from OS JP right off the bat.
• The rest of WvW. I am not very good at level, much less upleveled. And… overgrown grub.
• Bugged events as described above.
• Dungeons I could not get a group for and got tired of asking, like Arah.
• Events that are near impossible to do, like Rhendak the Crazed.

The only part that I enjoyed was when I hit Orr because I love the place. Well, except for 1 Temple nobody was doing (Bath). The rest was a teeth gnashing frustration-fest. I will not be leveling any more alts unless this is fixed or they give us a better way to obtain Scrolls of Knowledge (I am not into grinding for champ bags).

I think about players new to the game and know why they are often deciding to go without traits as has been mentioned repeatedly in this massive thread.

I don’t envy them when they try to get into dungeons or WvW.

Ten days until the six month mark. I’d hoped to be able to buy some gems for Halloween. That forecast is not looking good.

Tachenon.5270:

Second attempt: Let’s try another adept Arcane trait – Windborne Dagger! ‘Find and defeat Lord Ignius the Eternal at Venison Pass within Lornar’s Pass.’
….
All went well and soon my NPE ele had a new trait.

I’m sooo jealous! I waited on that map for hours but nothing happened.

Tachenon.5270:

‘Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx.’ Sounded simple enough.
… and so on and so forth, and after many, many, many attempts at disabling 6 asuran data pads within the span of 10 minutes I gave up and went to bed.

I think it’s 5 minutes, but not sure. My first attempt was like yours, I guess, then I watched a video about it and now I’m a pro =) I even think that soloing it might be easier.

Jana.6831:

Tachenon.5270:

Second attempt: Let’s try another adept Arcane trait – Windborne Dagger! ‘Find and defeat Lord Ignius the Eternal at Venison Pass within Lornar’s Pass.’
….
All went well and soon my NPE ele had a new trait.

I’m sooo jealous! I waited on that map for hours but nothing happened.

Tachenon.5270:

‘Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx.’ Sounded simple enough.
… and so on and so forth, and after many, many, many attempts at disabling 6 asuran data pads within the span of 10 minutes I gave up and went to bed.

I think it’s 5 minutes, but not sure. My first attempt was like yours, I guess, then I watched a video about it and now I’m a pro =) I even think that soloing it might be easier.

I logged on this morning and there were two other people there. Between the three of us we managed to get the shield open, but it still took a while. So anyway, I got that trait. I don’t know if the other people were there for the trait or if they’d just wandered in, as one of them asked, after we’d looted the chest, ‘Is that all that’s in here?’ Well. There was also rich mithril node.

Went to Sparkfly Fen afterward and picked up these two -

Final Shielding – Find the splendid chest within the Shattered Keep in Sparkfly Fen

Stop, Drop, and Roll – Find the chest in Verarium Delves.

- both of which were pretty easy to get, and got in on a successful Big Teq Attack while I was there. Got a spoon. Yay.

Then I went to Frostgorge Sound to try to get Aquamancer’s Alacrity – ‘Find the grand chest in Arundon Vale’ – but if it’s where I think it is (haven’t yet consulted the Oracle) my ele may not be quite ready for it, as she got clobbered twice in the cave there. Going back in now.

/e John Belushi as Bluto in Animal House ‘Aaaaaaahhhh!’

Yeah I just got it myself and the windy cave one while I was at it (same story, actually, two guys already fighting it – maybe they do that all day? hehe), but I still need that trait on two of my other characters, so I hope I will be lucky again.

Jana.6831:

Tachenon.5270:

Second attempt: Let’s try another adept Arcane trait – Windborne Dagger! ‘Find and defeat Lord Ignius the Eternal at Venison Pass within Lornar’s Pass.’
….
All went well and soon my NPE ele had a new trait.

I’m sooo jealous! I waited on that map for hours but nothing happened.

Tachenon.5270:

‘Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx.’ Sounded simple enough.
… and so on and so forth, and after many, many, many attempts at disabling 6 asuran data pads within the span of 10 minutes I gave up and went to bed.

I think it’s 5 minutes, but not sure. My first attempt was like yours, I guess, then I watched a video about it and now I’m a pro =) I even think that soloing it might be easier.

If this is the underwater cave in Straits of Devestation, I believe you can simply swim up to the upper left corner of the force field and there is a path through that doesn’t require you to take down the force field.

Arrow.4619:

If this is the underwater cave in Straits of Devestation, I believe you can simply swim up to the upper left corner of the force field and there is a path through that doesn’t require you to take down the force field.

No, not possible anymore.

And for those wondering about Ignius: It’s an event chain of 4 events starting with the Dwarf artifacts.

Keysha.2815:

Gaile, the easiest (from the player view) way to fix this would be to make it so if you have already got characters with traits unlocked, make them, at the appropriate level, be account unlocks. Then, the new players get introduced properly, and the existing players get the traits the way they are used to. Is this not feasable?

If not, then make either an npc where you can buy scrolls of knowledge (for skill unlocking) for a small amount of karma, or give us enough skill points, early enough, to unlock the utilities and skills as we want them.

This is basically all the feedback you need. Accountwide trait unlocks seem completely viable solution if your only concern was new player experience Anet…

Also I think that this new trait system actually slows down the learning of the trait system, because for new players traits are so hard to obtain, there’s plenty of them running around wtih lvl 70 characters and only like 5 traits unlocked. These poor guys hardly know anything about the trait system. In the old system we got those traits, we could start improvising with our character much earlier, slowly learning the synergies we wanted to get from our traits. Now these guys have those 5 random traits unlocked and they basically can’t do anything useful with that… Not good. And the wholse system is annoying for existing players too.

I’m happy you at least took out the map completions. Or so it seems… I’ll have to check that. Anyhow I still think this trait system is way to annoying to start a new alt. Simple as that. And as I’ve said many times – If I was a new player right now, I would quit this game withing a week – all thanks to this torturous trait system.

I’ve had most of my 10 traits (level 74 now) from map completions. Theyre still there.

samo.1054:

there’s plenty of them running around wtih lvl 70 characters and only like 5 traits unlocked. These poor guys hardly know anything about the trait system.

Sad but true. I actively read guides and stuff, but any time I get a character to level 80, I just look up builds and find the most essentially useful traits that people are recommending for what I want to do. Then I either buy or unlock those few and leave the rest alone.

I’ve really given it a try a couple times. Going on an unlocking spree. But staggeringly quickly, I’m hit with the realization that even some of the lowest level traits can be really time-consuming to go track down. And then I’m supposed to do that for 5 different types and 3 tiers? And on top of that, I have to do it over and over for any alts.

I could probably grind the gold and skillpoints to buy them much faster than completing the tasks, if the system gave me any reasons to actually bother.

Ironically, one of the easiest unlocks is a grandmaster trait – Karka Queen – who is on an observable rotation and gets killed regularly. I mean, you can get that one just from following the world boss train one time at level 80.

Of course, Anet doesn’t always know which events/bosses are going to be farmed the most, which is part of the problem. It really should have been more generalized from the get-go (e.g. complete X type of activity and get a trait book that you exchange at the trainer for a trait of your choice).

The laser-point specificity of the objectives combined with the importance of traits for most builds happens to have been the perfect blend of annoying.

Problem I see with the current trait treasure hunt is the location/event they are tied to. There is adept trait (5/III) that is unlocked in level 58 mini dungeon and several that can be found in 50-60 areas. You get your first adept trait option on level 36.

How is that level 36 character going to be able to get those adept traits when you need to adventure in zones way over your head and kill level 60 champions (what many level 80 chars are unable to solo).

At first I liked the idea of trait hunting, but then I saw what they did with it.
Why not sprinkle NPC’s around who would teach you the traits for a task or just a chat. And make sure that the trait unlocks are in level area suitable to the level of character needed to use it.

List of things I don’t like

• Things that took very long (Map completion, Personal Story, Story Modes)
• Things that are rarely available (Overgrown grub)

And most of all. That I have to do this for each and every Twink. Doing the same annoying Stuff for many different Characters is no fun at all. :-(

I give up this thread and so 3 of my slots will retire and be used as backpack. Will be just playing the pre April characters from now on. So darn hard to get anyone to fix things in this game.
Don’t worry, im going to PAX Aus this month and will give a good review about you guys.

Yeah, at this point I am probably going to be focusing on my 80s and maybe bringing my test necro out to farm some stuff to try to ear some gold and mats for what she has used up. There is just no joy in playing a toon made after April. Sadly that means once I’m bored playing with those level 80s I may find myself walking from the game. i hate that this might be the case. i really do. This trait system has broken the game IMO. No amount of NPE is going to make it right either. Fifty five pages and 5 months and…yeah…nothing.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Yeah, at this point I am probably going to be focusing on my 80s and maybe bringing my test necro out to farm some stuff to try to ear some gold and mats for what she has used up. There is just no joy in playing a toon made after April. Sadly that means once I’m bored playing with those level 80s I may find myself walking from the game. i hate that this might be the case. i really do. This trait system has broken the game IMO. No amount of NPE is going to make it right either. Fifty five pages and 5 months and…yeah…nothing.

I got my Engineer to 80 under the NPE, mostly via EotM, I’m now leveling a Thief…

The wait for level 15 just to get weapon swap is annoying, but then there’s the whole Trait Rationing which I’m not sure I can put up with on my Thief.

I am so mad/sad that ANet took a fairly flawless progression and butchered it in this way. Between April and September, the leveling experience has been mangled.

It’s not a total disaster, there has been some good in what ANet has done…but the game flow has been disrupted via uneven attribute stepping, Trait Unlock aberrations and questionable gating like swap weapon, etc.

One week away from the six month mark. What a mess.

ANET, I’m waiting for word. And while I’m waiting, I’m not spending money on you. I am spending my gaming money on Steam. And, slowly, I’m spending my gaming time on Steam, as well.