Guild Wars 2

Behellagh.1468:

In every case I’ve tried it was including teams I tried to form and then been kicked by those who joined even though I listed no meta required. I find selling of paths to be an offshoot of this. Otherwise if the forming of PUGs weren’t so hostile why would there be a viable business in selling assistance?

And it’s not off topic if players who sell paths are hitting the cap. My point is the devs may see this cap for RMT affecting path sellers and TP tax avoiders as a happy coincidence sad unfortunate side effect.

Well…ive had the exact opposite, i create pug groups all the time, running non lvl 80s, and have only been kicked once..out of enough dungeon runs to finish collecting all the AC armor and weapons, mot of the COF armor and weapons, and quite a bit of the TA armor and weapons.

Dungeon Selling isnt done to offer assistance though, its done to get people the harder paths in the game. Any of the Arah paths ive seen being sold for gold. Ive never seen people selling AC, COF, TA(Maybe the Aether path), HOTW, CM, SE or CE.

pdavis.8031:

Malediktus.3740:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t want to be impacted by all the Gold-seller mail/map chat/whispers/etc. Should my needs be brushed aside because a small amount of people will hit the cap? It would impact by quality of experience playing this game if measures were not taken to help curb RMTs.

Is my experience in-game as a paying customer worth less than those will large amounts of in-game Gold?

Food for thought…

Those gold sellers only impact you for a few seconds at a time. You block, report and move on. Certainly much less incovenience than having artifical limits on transfering gold.

The problem isn’t that gold sellers are an inconvenience, the problem is people are actually buying gold from gold sellers. Which encourages them to hack more accounts to do more business. Stopping the gold sellers by the limitation, which severely hampers their ability to conduct business, you limit the amount of gold sellers wanting to do business in game. If the buyer can only recieve a limited amount of gold per week, why would they want to do business with them if it takes 2+weeks to receive their goods? At that point is not worth it to buy gold from third party sites. Plus it greatly increases the chances of buyers getting caught if they have to wait longer.

Another point is that a very important part of gold sellers’ advertising is word of mouth recommendations. On the occasions when I’ve seen posts from someone who has actually bought gold from a third party site, they’ve always said that their friends/guild/etc had already bought gold from the same site and had it delivered quickly with no trouble.

If the buyer has to deal with complicated calculations, and multiple TP transactions that probably won’t get them quite what they paid for… or if they’re totally surprised and annoyed to be getting items instead of gold at all… they’re going to be a lot slower to recommend the site to their friends.

lordkrall.7241:

Why should they change and/or cater changes to unsupported activities?

Unsupported activities?

Dungeon selling is a pretty integral part of the game now, even if a player-made idea.
It isn’t just for people wanting the harder paths fast, as I sell any and EVERY dungeon path, AC, CM, TA, Aether, Se, Arah, Fractals… Prices obviously vary to what is fair, and it is to gain tokens, dungeon master, drops from specific ones. If I were to sell an Arah path for 3g, you would be making 60 tokens for absolute free, just for a couple minutes of your time joining.

(AC, 1g daily gold award at the end, I sell the paths for around 2g, so you pay 1g for 60 tokens) Some people like this, and it has it uses. THAT is why dungeon selling has been around for ages now, and it will continue to be… Only updates seemingly target us, when we actually enjoy solo’ing and selling a dungeon… Plus it is the best money you can achieve if you do it well

That doesn’t make it less unsupported however. It is very much used of course. But it is in no way or form supported by ArenaNet, which they have made rather clear.

I am all for limiting gold sellers. I love reporting and blocking them. I can’t stand that they affect the economy. The only people I loathe in MMOs more than gold sellers are bots, cheaters, and the people that buy said gold. I also loathe that restrictions are being put upon honest players. In the future I would hope that ArenaNet would see the folly of allowing the game’s currency to be tied to real currency. I was all for it until changes like this started seeming necessary to them. I am tired of honest players being punished for what ArenaNet admits is a tiny part of the population. I am tired of reporting accounts and it’s quite obvious with these changes that it’s not getting better it’s getting worse.

I think ArenaNet should set up a reward system for accurately reporting gold sellers. If you report a confirmed gold seller you get something: IDK a title, achievement points, a Legendary weapon called “The Banhammer”

Why not search for proactive, positive means of tackling this issue instead of punishing everyone(believe me, in the long run this will affect more people than it doesn’t due to prices of items that will become currency for gold sellers)?

Animism.9803:

lordkrall.7241:

Why should they change and/or cater changes to unsupported activities?

Unsupported activities?

Dungeon selling is a pretty integral part of the game now, even if a player-made idea.
It isn’t just for people wanting the harder paths fast, as I sell any and EVERY dungeon path, AC, CM, TA, Aether, Se, Arah, Fractals… Prices obviously vary to what is fair, and it is to gain tokens, dungeon master, drops from specific ones. If I were to sell an Arah path for 3g, you would be making 60 tokens for absolute free, just for a couple minutes of your time joining.

(AC, 1g daily gold award at the end, I sell the paths for around 2g, so you pay 1g for 60 tokens) Some people like this, and it has it uses. THAT is why dungeon selling has been around for ages now, and it will continue to be… Only updates seemingly target us, when we actually enjoy solo’ing and selling a dungeon… Plus it is the best money you can achieve if you do it well

dungeon selling is weak enough that if the only mail trading you do is dungeon selling you probably wont hit the cap unless youre making around around 50g/day off of paths… do you even sell 10-15 paths a day?

Iason Evan.3806:

In the future I would hope that ArenaNet would see the folly of allowing the game’s currency to be tied to real currency.

I agree with most of your post. However, on this point, the reason they did it was to provide a legitimate, safe way to do the RMT. I’m sure that many people who might have bought gold from third parties did it through the gem store instead. Without this method, the gold sellers would have had far more leverage over impatient people’s wallets.

I’m opposite to you: I was leery when they announced it, due to my general distaste for buying gold, but have found it very well implemented.

Now I’m waiting for the outraged posts from those who bought gold and can’t access the full amount for a week or because their other income is locked down because they bought gold. Should make for interesting threads.

Animism.9803:

lordkrall.7241:

Why should they change and/or cater changes to unsupported activities?

Unsupported activities?

Dungeon selling is a pretty integral part of the game now, even if a player-made idea.
It isn’t just for people wanting the harder paths fast, as I sell any and EVERY dungeon path, AC, CM, TA, Aether, Se, Arah, Fractals…

I was more sympathetic to your cause before the hyperbole:

• It’s clearly unsupported, as ANet has said exactly this many times.
• It’s not ‘integral’ to the game, it’s only integral to how some people choose to earn coin or tokens (or dungeon master achievement).

I agree with everyone wishing there was a way to harm gold sellers and gold buyers that didn’t hurt the rest of us. But the fact is that RMT harms the entire community and ANet needs to put some types of restrictions. It’s also a fact that this will slow down their ability to do business. Whether it’s worth the inconvenience to everyone else is something that ANet will have to decide.

I admire anyone who is skilled enough and has the dedication to make 500g/week selling dungeon paths. But that’s a tiny fraction of the player base; I don’t think ANet needs to adapt their policies for this group; I think this group needs to figure out their own alternatives.

Saying that something is allowed in game is supporting that something. Remember that Anet chose to state that sellimg dungeons was one of the appropriate/permitted uses for the LFG tool. Adding systems to make something easier and stating that it is permitted is supporting that something.

500 gold is to low.

Reasons:
1: My wife and i like to help other friends, so often loan large amount of gold to them, because we know they pay back fast. This is more difficult in the future
2: Dungeon sellers can easy hit 500 gold in a week if skilled. (dungeon runners help other not to skilled at dungeons for a price)
3: 1 and 2 combined, almost pointless to help our dungeon seller friend by loaning them money for what ever they desire, because they cant generate much income in a week if the loan 4-500 on sunday.
4: Large guilds, lottery events and mailing gold to WvW commanders so they can by siege, helping guildies with gold to legendary and much more.
5: Realy doubt that it have that large impact on goldsellers/hackers, they are not garantied a amount of gold per hacked account, so the 15% loss by washing the money on tp is nothing, and there are easy ways of getting the gold to customer via tp.

In short: Raise the amount to 900. Reasons: hit far less people who are not the target group, the goldsellers still advertice with 1000 gold for x amount of $, so they will also be hit (a bit).

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

And fiscal evasion? Seriously?

Of course, TP-trades are taxes by 15%, avoiding this is tax evasion.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Dayra.7405:

lotteries (invented to steal from people with their consent),

How on earth is a person who is WILLINGLY paying gold to get a ticket in the lottery being stolen from “without their consent”?

If you cite me, cite me without adding words, I neither wrote nor mean.

PS: I wrote “with their consent” you cited it as “with out their consent”

PPS: Answering your question as well:
Lotteries are invented to trick people to pay for something they wouldn’t buy if asked directly. (And your guild example fits that perfectly) The money earned by the lottery for purpose XYZ is much more people would be willing to pay for purpose XYZ. They only pay because the chance of winning seduces them. Tricking the stupid to buy something they wouldn’t buy without the trick is judged stealing in many cases. Several states do (or did, e.g. US till WW II) forbid lotteries and other forms of gambling due to that. Others allow it only under strict government regulation and supervision because that way they get money from their people without having to raise taxes the people don’t like. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery)

Dayra.7405:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

And fiscal evasion? Seriously?

Of course, TP-trades are taxes by 15%, avoiding this is tax evasion.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Dayra.7405:

lotteries (invented to steal from people with their consent),

How on earth is a person who is WILLINGLY paying gold to get a ticket in the lottery being stolen from “without their consent”?

If you cite me, cite me without adding words, I neither wrote nor mean.

“Second, the all way’s I can imagine to get 500g per week via mail from other people in GW2 are off-TP trades (which I would consider as fiscal evasion), lotteries (invented to steal from people with their consent) . . . "

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gold-Transfer-Changes/page/13#post4953103

Looks like you wrote it.

Edit: Ahh, I see now. I’ll go back and edit that part. My point still remains; it’s not stealing anything from anyone.

Dayra.7405:

Of course, TP-trades are taxes by 15%, avoiding this is tax evasion.

You are effin crazy. The fees exist for using the Trading Post only. That is the price you pay for the ability to use the TP. If I buy my friend’s PS4 from him without him trading it into a store at a significant markdown and then me buying it from the store at a significant markup, neither of us is committing “tax evasion” — since you’re so set on using real world examples. If they didn’t want to allow people to trade through mail, they wouldn’t allow them to send items or gold. If they wanted to tax those trades, they would. Unbelievable.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I agree with everyone wishing there was a way to harm gold sellers and gold buyers that didn’t hurt the rest of us. But the fact is that RMT harms the entire community and ANet needs to put some types of restrictions.

Yes, RMT affects the game and its players somewhat, but don’t kid yourself: this has way more to do with ANet’s bottom line (with regards to their own RMT system) than it does a “healthy” economy.

It’s akin to overzealous, draconian DRM – it’s much easier to inconvenience honest users than actively police it properly or come up with positive, proactive solutions.

If I send 500g on saturday will I be able to send another 500g on sunday and it will all work or is it if I send 500g on sunday and then send 500g on monday it will work?

Takktor.6247:

If I send 500g on saturday will I be able to send another 500g on sunday and it will all work or is it if I send 500g on sunday and then send 500g on monday it will work?

You can SEND as much gold as you want. The limit is how much you can GET.

lordkrall.7241:

Takktor.6247:

If I send 500g on saturday will I be able to send another 500g on sunday and it will all work or is it if I send 500g on sunday and then send 500g on monday it will work?

You can SEND as much gold as you want. The limit is how much you can GET.

Yeah, thats what I ment. Sorry for being unclear.

According to the first post it will reset at 12:01 AM UTC each Sunday (5:01 PM PDT/4:01 PM PST Saturday).

So basically getting 500 gold on Saturday morning will still allow you to get 500 on Sunday morning.
Getting 500 on Sunday morning however will not allow you to get anymore gold until next Saturday afternoon/night (depending on timezone).

lordkrall.7241:

According to the first post it will reset at 12:01 AM UTC each Sunday (5:01 PM PDT/4:01 PM PST Saturday).

So basically getting 500 gold on Saturday morning will still allow you to get 500 on Sunday morning.
Getting 500 on Sunday morning however will not allow you to get anymore gold until next Saturday afternoon/night (depending on timezone).

Ok, thank you very much for making it clear for me!

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Dayra.7405:

Second, the all way’s I can imagine to get 500g per week via mail from other people in GW2 are off-TP trades (which I would consider as fiscal evasion), lotteries (invented to steal from people with their consent), snow-ball-systems or even worser types of fraud.

Wow, you are something else. None of that is fraud, check your definitions. That is a supreme amount of hyperbole. And fiscal evasion? Seriously? What is wrong with you?

“Everything not forbidden is compulsory” – TH White

pdavis.8031:

Nafeasonto.8925:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Did you seriously just come in here and define yourself as a 1% minority, then demand anyone care what happens to you in the new system?

You do not impact the community in a significant enough way to be considered.

So what you are saying is Anet should only care about certain members that play? And only certain people who pay real money?

And not care about the rest?

And AGAIN why include Guild Banks, that makes no sense.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Complain on. Statistically this affects a very minute amount of players. I don’t think Anet is going to change their stance anytime soon.

Then they are going to probably start losing people if they don’t like to listen to their customers. It’s the nature of the beast, since our stance isn’t going to change anytime soon. It’s not a good idea to screw over people who pay money, especially people who like the stuff in the gem store and people actual money. And they probably make loads of money on the gem store.

But which customers do they listen to? those that don’t like it, or those that do? If those that are OK with and support the change, and are buying gems, then who do they risk alienating? The majority, or minorty? At that point, it’s better to appease the majority and lose the minorty who probably aren’t very happy with the game anyway. More happy players brings in even more happy players, which is a win for anet.

But why do you like it? It has zero positive affect on you. But it negatively affects others. So basically you like it because it hurts other people? This isn’t going to change gold sellers. They’ll just transfer their gold in the form of something like ectos. And it isn’t going to increase account security because being mailed gold does not increase your accounts chance of being stolen.

Dinks.2478:

pdavis.8031:

Nafeasonto.8925:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Did you seriously just come in here and define yourself as a 1% minority, then demand anyone care what happens to you in the new system?

You do not impact the community in a significant enough way to be considered.

So what you are saying is Anet should only care about certain members that play? And only certain people who pay real money?

And not care about the rest?

And AGAIN why include Guild Banks, that makes no sense.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Complain on. Statistically this affects a very minute amount of players. I don’t think Anet is going to change their stance anytime soon.

Then they are going to probably start losing people if they don’t like to listen to their customers. It’s the nature of the beast, since our stance isn’t going to change anytime soon. It’s not a good idea to screw over people who pay money, especially people who like the stuff in the gem store and people actual money. And they probably make loads of money on the gem store.

But which customers do they listen to? those that don’t like it, or those that do? If those that are OK with and support the change, and are buying gems, then who do they risk alienating? The majority, or minorty? At that point, it’s better to appease the majority and lose the minorty who probably aren’t very happy with the game anyway. More happy players brings in even more happy players, which is a win for anet.

But why do you like it? It has zero positive affect on you. But it negatively affects others. So basically you like it because it hurts other people? This isn’t going to change gold sellers. They’ll just transfer their gold in the form of something like ectos. And it isn’t going to increase account security because being mailed gold does not increase your accounts chance of being stolen.

I like it because it curtails the efforts of Gold Sellers. Sure they can and will find other methods, but it involves more than just sending items to be sold on the TP.
The account security lies in, if its harder for Gold Sellers to do their business, by the player either having to wait to get their ill gotten gains, or to have to sell a bunch of items on the TP, than they are less likely to use their services. Also if your account gets hacked (Which is generally done by Gold Sellers who steal your stuff and send it to a different account) having the limitation stops them from recieving all your goods at once. Which in turn leads to a greater chance of them being caught. Plus with the limitation of being able to recieve 500g a week, that also limits their buying power on the TP.

Prices on the TP aren’t static. If ectos become the new curency, what will happen to the prices? Will they go up, or drop? Either way, unless you are using non-TP able items, the prices are not going to remain stable enough to reliably use them as a currency.

pdavis.8031:

Dinks.2478:

pdavis.8031:

Nafeasonto.8925:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Did you seriously just come in here and define yourself as a 1% minority, then demand anyone care what happens to you in the new system?

You do not impact the community in a significant enough way to be considered.

So what you are saying is Anet should only care about certain members that play? And only certain people who pay real money?

And not care about the rest?

And AGAIN why include Guild Banks, that makes no sense.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Complain on. Statistically this affects a very minute amount of players. I don’t think Anet is going to change their stance anytime soon.

Then they are going to probably start losing people if they don’t like to listen to their customers. It’s the nature of the beast, since our stance isn’t going to change anytime soon. It’s not a good idea to screw over people who pay money, especially people who like the stuff in the gem store and people actual money. And they probably make loads of money on the gem store.

But which customers do they listen to? those that don’t like it, or those that do? If those that are OK with and support the change, and are buying gems, then who do they risk alienating? The majority, or minorty? At that point, it’s better to appease the majority and lose the minorty who probably aren’t very happy with the game anyway. More happy players brings in even more happy players, which is a win for anet.

But why do you like it? It has zero positive affect on you. But it negatively affects others. So basically you like it because it hurts other people? This isn’t going to change gold sellers. They’ll just transfer their gold in the form of something like ectos. And it isn’t going to increase account security because being mailed gold does not increase your accounts chance of being stolen.

I like it because it curtails the efforts of Gold Sellers. Sure they can and will find other methods, but it involves more than just sending items to be sold on the TP.
The account security lies in, if its harder for Gold Sellers to do their business, by the player either having to wait to get their ill gotten gains, or to have to sell a bunch of items on the TP, than they are less likely to use their services. Also if your account gets hacked (Which is generally done by Gold Sellers who steal your stuff and send it to a different account) having the limitation stops them from recieving all your goods at once. Which in turn leads to a greater chance of them being caught. Plus with the limitation of being able to recieve 500g a week, that also limits their buying power on the TP.

Prices on the TP aren’t static. If ectos become the new curency, what will happen to the prices? Will they go up, or drop? Either way, unless you are using non-TP able items, the prices are not going to remain stable enough to reliably use them as a currency.

That is not true, it won’t curtail anything. It will as I said just turn the transfer into items instead of gold.

And once again, how is this stopping people from getting their account stolen?

I am also confused how you think that limiting the amount of gold a person can receive is going to stop somebody from SENDING everything on my account to another one.

This is nothing but a poorly planned and poorly implemented barrier that won’t change much of anything for the better but will hurt a minority of the players for the worst. I suppose you can be a selfish person and say it MIGHT help you and since it doesn’t hurt you it doesn’t matter. But I cannot be that selfish person who ignores the issues of others just because it isn’t an issue of mine.

Animism.9803:

lordkrall.7241:

Why should they change and/or cater changes to unsupported activities?

Unsupported activities?

Dungeon selling is a pretty integral part of the game now, even if a player-made idea.

There’s a difference between accepted activities and supported activities.

Kinda like texmod in GW1. It was used by a lot of people, and allowed by ArenaNet, but with a very clear warning that ArenaNet didn’t support it, and if you screwed yourself over it was your problem.

Dinks.2478:

That is not true, it won’t curtail anything. It will as I said just turn the transfer into items instead of gold.

And once again, how is this stopping people from getting their account stolen?

I am also confused how you think that limiting the amount of gold a person can receive is going to stop somebody from SENDING everything on my account to another one.

This is nothing but a poorly planned and poorly implemented barrier that won’t change much of anything for the better but will hurt a minority of the players for the worst. I suppose you can be a selfish person and say it MIGHT help you and since it doesn’t hurt you it doesn’t matter. But I cannot be that selfish person who ignores the issues of others just because it isn’t an issue of mine.

Why won’t it curtail anything? Because gold/items can still be sent?

If a gold seller can only recieve a certain amount of gold a week, that means they can only do so much business in a week.

And again, with the TP, prices are not guaranteed. If I am trying to buy 3000g from a seller, but they send me the ectos instead, I can sell them at 33s 17c per ecto. However it would take ~9045 globs of ecto. Plus have a fee of 450g. So that means I need to sell them much slower, which takes much much longer to get what I paid for. And thats at current prices, and selling to the highest bidder. I can list them for a higher price, but that takes even longer, and has an increased cost.
So it seems to me that selling items is not very worth while, as it takes much more, and more of a potential loss in assets when buying items to sell. orders under 500g would still suffer the same effects, just scaled appropriately.

The people arguing that this system wont do anything because gd sellers could use workarounds need to keep in mind that no system is expected to completely eliminate the practice. This isnt supposed to, or expected to, remove account hacking a d gold selling 100% in one fell swoop. Its supposed to reduce the illicit activity by making it a bit more cumbersome for seller and buyer alike. If even a small percentage of illicit gold buyers decide that having to jump through hoops to get their gold is not worth the trouble the system will have an impact.

I am not commenting on whether or not the number of people being affected by the change (and this will be greater than the stated percentage because more than just the initial sender and receiver of the gold e-mail are affected) is worth the reduction in gold selling/account hacking, but the reduction will occur for the sime reason that some people wont want to deal with the hassle. They will want their gold, all of it, right now, no extra steps.

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Not gonna happen, gold sellers are not stupid, they just mail materials/high level goods from stolen account and sell it on tp when recived.
15% is not that bad for washing you illegal goods

I’m talking about anybody, not just Gold Sellers.

The problem is if you get a lot of gold being mailed to you, the mail cap plus this 500g limit is going to back fill your mail because you can’t selectively skip a big transfer to empty a lot of little ones.

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

pdavis.8031:

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

No need to wait 6 weeks, they can just send you some goods so you can list them on tp for a certain price that will get you your purchased amount of gold.
All this change has done is to make is slightly slower for gold sellers to transfer funds to customer, but at the same time made it realy annoying for lots of players since 500 gold is a rather low amount of gold.

Calcanius.5048:

pdavis.8031:

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

No need to wait 6 weeks, they can just send you some goods so you can list them on tp for a certain price that will get you your purchased amount of gold.
All this change has done is to make is slightly slower for gold sellers to transfer funds to customer, but at the same time made it realy annoying for lots of players since 500 gold is a rather low amount of gold.

So, if someone buys 1000 gold from a gold seller for $X, then that’s what they are going to want to get. Not a bunch of mats to sell that maybe will or maybe will not get the gold you were promised. If someone pays $X and gets mats that sell less than the amount of gold promised, you think they are going to be happy and the gold seller get repeat/referral business? Most people aren’t going to be happy to get mats that do sell for the gold promised because it’s not what they paid for and they were promised to get.

If you buy gold with real money, the last thing you want is whatever crap the goldseller has decided will make up that gold and send it to you to sell. There is no reason to believe they will send quality items to sell when junk will do the same thing.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Calcanius.5048:

pdavis.8031:

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

No need to wait 6 weeks, they can just send you some goods so you can list them on tp for a certain price that will get you your purchased amount of gold.
All this change has done is to make is slightly slower for gold sellers to transfer funds to customer, but at the same time made it realy annoying for lots of players since 500 gold is a rather low amount of gold.

So, if someone buys 1000 gold from a gold seller for $X, then that’s what they are going to want to get. Not a bunch of mats to sell that maybe will or maybe will not get the gold you were promised. If someone pays $X and gets mats that sell less than the amount of gold promised, you think they are going to be happy and the gold seller get repeat/referral business? Most people aren’t going to be happy to get mats that do sell for the gold promised because it’s not what they paid for and they were promised to get.

If you buy gold with real money, the last thing you want is whatever crap the goldseller has decided will make up that gold and send it to you to sell. There is no reason to believe they will send quality items to sell when junk will do the same thing.

You still get the amount ordered (1000 gold used in exampel).
Exampel: Mjölnir is currently ordered for 1007 and listed for 1400, so large gav in between.
Gold seller sends Mjölnir to buyer +110 gold and tell buyer to list it for 1100 and then sellers buys it off tp so he gets it back.
Reason for the amounts:
110 gold so seller can pay the listing fee of 55 gold, along with that you loose 10% when item is sold in tax (110), so you end up with getting 935 from tp and still have 55 of the 110 seller mailed to you and you end up with 1000 gold.

(sorry if my math is a bit off i have been drinking

Calcanius.5048:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Calcanius.5048:

pdavis.8031:

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

No need to wait 6 weeks, they can just send you some goods so you can list them on tp for a certain price that will get you your purchased amount of gold.
All this change has done is to make is slightly slower for gold sellers to transfer funds to customer, but at the same time made it realy annoying for lots of players since 500 gold is a rather low amount of gold.

So, if someone buys 1000 gold from a gold seller for $X, then that’s what they are going to want to get. Not a bunch of mats to sell that maybe will or maybe will not get the gold you were promised. If someone pays $X and gets mats that sell less than the amount of gold promised, you think they are going to be happy and the gold seller get repeat/referral business? Most people aren’t going to be happy to get mats that do sell for the gold promised because it’s not what they paid for and they were promised to get.

If you buy gold with real money, the last thing you want is whatever crap the goldseller has decided will make up that gold and send it to you to sell. There is no reason to believe they will send quality items to sell when junk will do the same thing.

You still get the amount ordered (1000 gold used in exampel).
Exampel: Mjölnir is currently ordered for 1007 and listed for 1400, so large gav in between.
Gold seller sends Mjölnir to buyer +110 gold and tell buyer to list it for 1100 and then sellers buys it off tp so he gets it back.
Reason for the amounts:
110 gold so seller can pay the listing fee of 55 gold, along with that you loose 10% when item is sold in tax (110), so you end up with getting 935 from tp and still have 55 of the 110 seller mailed to you and you end up with 1000 gold.

(sorry if my math is a bit off i have been drinking

You underestimate the power of laziness.

(some) People will be put off by the, “hassle,” and that is all it will take for the system to have some impact.

Calcanius.5048:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Calcanius.5048:

pdavis.8031:

Behellagh.1468:

They can still send you 3000 gold. It’s just you can only withdraw 500g a week in total from mail or a guild bank. Any leftover in the mail stays there until it’s all depleted.

Of course. But recieving 3000g from a seller means it will take 6 weeks to get your funds. Or you could make multiple transactions for smaller amounts. Either way it makes it extremely inconvenient for those buying, which leads to not wanting to deal with the hassle, which means less business for Gold Sellers.

No need to wait 6 weeks, they can just send you some goods so you can list them on tp for a certain price that will get you your purchased amount of gold.
All this change has done is to make is slightly slower for gold sellers to transfer funds to customer, but at the same time made it realy annoying for lots of players since 500 gold is a rather low amount of gold.

So, if someone buys 1000 gold from a gold seller for $X, then that’s what they are going to want to get. Not a bunch of mats to sell that maybe will or maybe will not get the gold you were promised. If someone pays $X and gets mats that sell less than the amount of gold promised, you think they are going to be happy and the gold seller get repeat/referral business? Most people aren’t going to be happy to get mats that do sell for the gold promised because it’s not what they paid for and they were promised to get.

If you buy gold with real money, the last thing you want is whatever crap the goldseller has decided will make up that gold and send it to you to sell. There is no reason to believe they will send quality items to sell when junk will do the same thing.

You still get the amount ordered (1000 gold used in exampel).
Exampel: Mjölnir is currently ordered for 1007 and listed for 1400, so large gav in between.
Gold seller sends Mjölnir to buyer +110 gold and tell buyer to list it for 1100 and then sellers buys it off tp so he gets it back.
Reason for the amounts:
110 gold so seller can pay the listing fee of 55 gold, along with that you loose 10% when item is sold in tax (110), so you end up with getting 935 from tp and still have 55 of the 110 seller mailed to you and you end up with 1000 gold.

(sorry if my math is a bit off i have been drinking

You’re assuming they will send quality goods, not 1000 gold worth of junk. There no reason for them to send good stuff if junk will do. For one thing, we aren’t talking about people who care about their personal reputation or the reputation of their business. Since they also hack accounts that shows they write off some accounts. If they write off accounts then that means they can send junk and still claim the person got their gold.

It was meant as a exampel on how to transfer more than 500 gold to customer in a week and how you can manipulate the marked and maintain happy customer who gets the gold he paid for fast not meaning that they would choose that item or simulary.
But even if they do choose to send a high quality item they can just marked it a as customer service, that the customer get more than he paid for.
Dont forget it is that their job is to tranfer gold to customer account for real money and goal is also to have happy customer who comes again.
But seem like we are getting off the topic. I just want to get this low 500 limit raised to exampel 900 so it hurt far less real player adn can still be a small problem for the sellers

Within PACT we have a legendary support group to help members get their legendary weapons. This works on donations and deposits from our members and supporters. Last night we had a member donate a large sum of gold. When we tried to organize the gold in the guild bank we got smacked with the 500g cap. This is a bad idea because several community members will run into trying to save gold in their personal guild bank and not be able to pull it out to by the precursor that are well over 500g….. I understand needing to break down on gold sellers and people who scam but punishing us who use the system properly isn’t the way to do it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/RMT-Purchases-Expect-them-to-be-Removed/first

The next step in stopping RMT.
Gold buyers are now being actioned with a renewed vigor. While it has always been against the rules, they are now taking more action.
So the 500g transfer limit cap, coupled with a ban, should at the very least cause players to rethink buying gold from gold sellers. The cap makes it more difficult for RMT to do business, and increases wait times for buyers, and now buyers will be actioned as well. Even if RMT moves to items, the transfer of an obscene amounts of items, or frequent transfers high priced items, those using their services still risk losing their accounts.

My crystal ball sais , there wont be an restrictions to the items you can send in the future :P

If my account is hacked
>and the Scammer send mine 250 Glob of Ectoplasm to his account
> he will get those items and trade them in the AH for gold .

When my account will be restored , i will get back the items
>and the gold seller account with the Gold (that sold the Ectos) will be suspended
> the gold be unavaliable for any1 and it will be something like a’’ gold sink’’

Here is a question I’ve not seen addressed. Let’s say you are receiving the gold you lent a friend back via the mail and he sends you 2 mails each containing 500g. Now according to the limits as posted, you can take one right away and wait a week for the next mail to complete the transaction. What happens if you take gold out of your guild bank or another friend that you lent money to sends you his repayment (say 200g in this example). You haven’t reached your 500g limit for the week but the only mail you have to take money from is 500g. Do you receive the portion of that gold that takes you to the 500g per week limit or is the entire amount locked until you can withdraw it all?

Bunter.3795:

Here is a question I’ve not seen addressed. Let’s say you are receiving the gold you lent a friend back via the mail and he sends you 2 mails each containing 500g. Now according to the limits as posted, you can take one right away and wait a week for the next mail to complete the transaction. What happens if you take gold out of your guild bank or another friend that you lent money to sends you his repayment (say 200g in this example). You haven’t reached your 500g limit for the week but the only mail you have to take money from is 500g. Do you receive the portion of that gold that takes you to the 500g per week limit or is the entire amount locked until you can withdraw it all?

Easy answer: have to wait to get full amount.
I and wife often loan large of money to friends and was slapped with this silly 500 gold rule, so at sunday when i could finaly recive more money i was already well on my way to limit for next week.
I think of myself as casual player and only see disadvantages with this silly system, since you can easy hit 500 gold in a week. 500 gold is to be honest no longer a fortune and can easy be accumilated within a week.
Raise it to 900 or more to hit far less players but still tease the goldseller who sells 1000 each time
(edit) and if you recived 350 in a week, adn get a mail off 200 gold, then the system says you are now at 550 so you can not even get the 200, hance making the limit even lower.

trading will now just move over to personal guilds.

hackers can just invite the hacked account, dump all the gold into this guild then take their time to collect all the items and stuff. no need for the mailing system. Then kick the player from the guild again.

legitimate trading can and probably will, just use personal guild this way. Invite player. give them rights to deposit/retrieve. Then transfer stuff that way.

Prysin.8542:

trading will now just move over to personal guilds.

hackers can just invite the hacked account, dump all the gold into this guild then take their time to collect all the items and stuff. no need for the mailing system. Then kick the player from the guild again.

legitimate trading can and probably will, just use personal guild this way. Invite player. give them rights to deposit/retrieve. Then transfer stuff that way.

No NO and NO

Since they do not restore gold/items in guild vault if a account is hacked and empty the guild this is a terrible idea. Never have more in guild vault than you are prepared to loose if unlucky and hacked.
And hackers will most likely just wash their stolen goods on TP, purchase items for all the money in hacked account and mail stuff to hacker and the sell it to get the gold

Prysin.8542:

trading will now just move over to personal guilds.

hackers can just invite the hacked account, dump all the gold into this guild then take their time to collect all the items and stuff. no need for the mailing system. Then kick the player from the guild again.

legitimate trading can and probably will, just use personal guild this way. Invite player. give them rights to deposit/retrieve. Then transfer stuff that way.

There still is the 3 day period in which an account new to a guild, can not access the guild bank, either to deposit anything or to remove anything.

Calcanius.5048:

Prysin.8542:

trading will now just move over to personal guilds.

hackers can just invite the hacked account, dump all the gold into this guild then take their time to collect all the items and stuff. no need for the mailing system. Then kick the player from the guild again.

legitimate trading can and probably will, just use personal guild this way. Invite player. give them rights to deposit/retrieve. Then transfer stuff that way.

No NO and NO

Since they do not restore gold/items in guild vault if a account is hacked and empty the guild this is a terrible idea. Never have more in guild vault than you are prepared to loose if unlucky and hacked.
And hackers will most likely just wash their stolen goods on TP, purchase items for all the money in hacked account and mail stuff to hacker and the sell it to get the gold

So what im trying to say is: If i had an account that was not mine, acquired through shady means, instead of being hit by the mail spam limit or gold transfer limit. I’d simply make a personal guild on one a account that was mine, used that guild to invite the account i acquired maliciously. Then dump all their items there.

The more time you spend on a hacked account the more likely you are to be caught or the account is likely to be recovered and CS to start chasing you down. The best you can do is create a network of hacker accounts all in the same invited guild. Pool their stuff and siphon the guild vault slowly, kicking the hacked accounts when they no longer have any items.

In short, doing it this way, you can circumvent most of the “flags” that any auto banning or detection system uses.

Common detection systems looks at your IP, then look at what you do on that account (IE: if you try to send a lot of mails or stuff like that).

disclaimer: I do not condone hacking, nor do i participate or support those who participate in hacking and or scamming. I do however see if there is obvious ways to abuse things that circumvent game mechanics when they are right in front of me, i ain’t blind.

My regular team of Superhero forum bug smashers was out on another job so I was forced to call upon my newest recruit. Unfortunately his Super Skill at this time is “spit up”. It fixed the forum but left a sour milk smell. Sorry about that.

@ Prysin.8542

To be honest your guild idea seems far to slow and time demanding.
Reason: 3 day limit when in new guild, and a hacker is like a burgeler, he dont want to run around in your house for 3 days eating all you peanutbutter and jam while waiting for his fellow thiefes to bring the van for the stolen goods. And guild vault have a nice list of who deposit and withdrag items
Solutions:
1: He can either purchase high level stuff on tp and mail that, and the sell it on tp again for instant gold, this is fast but does leave small trail of breadcrums.
2: He can manipulate the the tradepost a bit more tricky, but find a item where he may be able to buy out the goods for sale and the post them for same amount of gold that the hacked account have.
3: other more cleaver ways i havent thought off

Was a bit surprised to see these prices today, but as “manipulated TP for gold transfer” they would make sense.

Dayra.7405:

Was a bit surprised to see these prices today, but as “manipulated TP for gold transfer” they would make sense.

How would that work though and how do they stop other people from jumping in and listing their items at that price or a copper lower?