Guild Wars 2

Havana.8625:

It sounds ridiculously cruel to impose something that keeps smaller guilds away from the content

“ridiculously cruel” is eating a large meal in front of someone as they die of hunger.

Having a system in a game that is accomplished quicker with more people is at worst “a bummer”. lets get some perspective.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

<snip>

But wait! gw2 has another option, you guys can join multiple guilds so if really want to be part of a high tier guild mission then you could all join a larger guild and play the missions together anyway. Ok so it wont buff your own guild reputation (which is something that i cant really see small and casual guilds caring about) but at least you got to have fun and do some content that wasn’t designed (unlike anything else in the current game) for 5 man guilds.

Overall, id say this entire argument is ridiculous.

Overall… you haven’t noticed the number of mega guilds that require 100% representation.

The number of them that don’t are in quickly diminishing minority. Especially since the announcement of these guild missions and the reward system attached to them.

What this means is that the “rep more than one guild” option is mostly null and void. A small guild being told to “rep another large guild” is mostly being told to “disband and give up your small guild.”

I’d say that makes your entire argument ridiculous… but since I’m not into insulting people before I’ve educated myself about the topic they are discussing I won’t.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Ok im a casualish player. I have a hectic work and social schedule that means im not sure when ill be player and when i wont.

Theres a few things I understand about my position within guild wars 2.

- I wont be getting a legendary any time soon
- I wont be the richest player or will be able to afford every piece of gear, shiny or treat i see in the game
- I will have to spend real money in order to buy bank/chars and anything else i see in the cash store i like the look of (quaggan backpack)

What im saying is i know my style of gameplay means i am limited in scope to what i can achieve within a MMO. I have accepted this. Its not a big deal as it means I can still have fun at my own pace and the game never feels like a chore or a job. I actually love that guild wars 2 allows me to play all content, because high tier raids, arenas and tournaments would also be on my list if i were still playing other MMOs.

Now, in my opinion small guilds will have to take a page out of my book. Your a small casual guild, you took the sacrifice in quantity to keep player, friendship or role player quality. You dont have to put up with morons or people you dont like in the game just because they are active more than others you like. Unfortunately a sad fact of life and anything in it is you just cant have it all.

But wait! gw2 has another option, you guys can join multiple guilds so if really want to be part of a high tier guild mission then you could all join a larger guild and play the missions together anyway. Ok so it wont buff your own guild reputation (which is something that i cant really see small and casual guilds caring about) but at least you got to have fun and do some content that wasn’t designed (unlike anything else in the current game) for 5 man guilds.

Overall, id say this entire argument is ridiculous.

So what about a group of friends that have just started playing and want to create their own guild, but don’t want to wait months to do the new content? Should they join a new guild and never get their guilds reputation up so that they can complete the guild missions within their own guild? What about those guilds that demand you rep them 100% of the time or they’ll kick you, it would be completely pointless then to keep your smaller guild as you won’t be able to use it

Your answer is join a new guild, so are none of us allowed to play the game the way we want to anymore? We have to join these big guilds if we want to see the content soon. What about in the future will GW2 never see any new PVE guilds as if they want to see the new content they will have to join big guilds? What happens when each server consists of 3-4 massive PVE guilds, then the whole idea of guilds are basically nothing. The idea of a guild is so you can play with the people you want to play with, not be forced into joining another guild if you want to partake in any of the new guild content.

Anet created these new missions to be open world missions so that any other people playing in that area can join therefore making it more accessible to smaller guilds. What would be the point in that to then turn around and say you basically have to join a new guild if you want to see the content any time soon.

I got to say people’s concerns here are very legitimate. This is a nail in the coffin for guilds with fewer than 10-15 people. Over the weekend I have had 4 guilds of this size adsorbed into my guild for the sole reason of me having AoW lvl 5. Most of them had planned to rep mine when I host missions, but it seems like some of their members have not returned to their small guilds to rep like their leaders would like them too. Mostly because of activity and bonus’.

Having a AoW level 5 requirement and dropping that fact days before release was the worst thing Anet could have done for small guilds…. I feel for leaders that have lost membership in these ways, they had no time to prepare whats so ever, and instilling doubt early before release is whats screwing them. Anet should have given more advanced warning about the requirement or not have given any advanced warning at all. All the warning did, was make people scramble to get into better position to earn new rewards, where as if they didn’t know before hand, they may have been more inclined to stay in their smaller guilds and grind it out.

The whole being able to join multiple guilds is pretty pointless if you ask me, when you can only represent, earn influence, receive bonus, and communicate with one at time. Its probably the worst thing Anet could have done for the guild structure, because of course, people are going to rep the guild that can earn them the most reward and it just fragments membership

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Well, from a technical standpoint, Just looking at the names of each tree Art of War is actually a fairly logical place to put something like a bounty hunt, at least it makes far more sense than Architecture, Politics, or Economy.

Again though, gating pure PvE content behind a PvP track that yields ONLY PvP rewards isn’t just questionable, it’s asinine. There are a lot of PvE only guilds out there that simply have no use whatsoever for that track. If anything, it should be gated behind a track that every guild would have a need to invest in, like Architecture. Sure, there’s no other rationale to link guild events to this track, but the same goes for Art of War because there’s nothing in it that you can use to accomplish these activities. The rewards are for a separate mode of gameplay altogether.

As far as I’m concerned, ANet chose Art of War (a track that’s already more fleshed out than all the others) specifically to get guilds to invest in it. Then once they’ve invested, they’ll be more inclined to use the rewards they’ve been forced to work for, by becoming more involved in PvP. Instead of making PvP more attractive, so that players would be more inclined to try it based on it’s own merits, they are trying to coerce players into it by ensuring that they must put in time and resources to unlock a series of PvP rewards, just to access the PvE content beyond.

World completion (that’s an explorer’s goal if ever there was one), the quest for legendaries (legendary skins, at least), and monthlies (no PvP this month, but every month prior). These examples of short and long-term game goals have three things in common: 1) none of them provide PvP-specific benefits, 2) they all require PvP involvement, and 3) they all failed to make PvP more attractive. Add one more to the list with guild missions.

The old philosophy was let people play they way they want. That goal has more than fallen flat now. The actual philosophy seems to be: Play the game you want to play it — so long as that involves PvP. I hope the minority that this sentiment caters to is a significant minority. Is it enough to offset so many others you’re just kitten off now?

Here’s the thing. If a smaller guild was able to kick off these events they couldn’t finish them without outside help. The guild missions are designed to be difficult and require a decent amount of players.

Small guilds are crying now that they cant access this stuff, they will also cry later if Anet drops the prereq for entry and those small guilds cant finish it.

IMO this is a form of raiding. With that in mind you wouldn’t try to play content that is designed for 10 or 25 players with only 5 right?

Big guilds need stuff to do too. As mentioned earlier in this thread the only thing big guilds get to do is WVW. Everything else in this game is geared towards 5 people in a group.

I am in a big guild. We have about 490 people in the guild and there is ruffly 60-100 players on 24/7. Its also a international guild.

To me this is a welcome change. Its about time the bigger guilds have a chance to do something other then WvW.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

But wait! gw2 has another option, you guys can join multiple guilds so if really want to be part of a high tier guild mission then you could all join a larger guild and play the missions together anyway. Ok so it wont buff your own guild reputation (which is something that i cant really see small and casual guilds caring about) but at least you got to have fun and do some content that wasn’t designed (unlike anything else in the current game) for 5 man guilds.

Overall, id say this entire argument is ridiculous.

Spoken like someone who has never belonged to a small guild, where every tier unlock is a cause for celebration and where buying guild bonuses is a strategic decision because you have a finite supply of influence. Unlike large guilds who can unlock several tiers of something within a few hours of letting their throngs loose to do whatever the hell they want, small guilds need to focus and work to achieve these goals. Large guilds can do it without even a second thought and without any concerted effort whatsoever.

Sacrificing your influence to the gaping maw of a large guild’s pool instead of into your own guild’s tiny reservoir is significant and ensures that you’re little guild will stagnate and die. Yeah, nothing to care about there.

Overall, I’d have to say your argument is ridiculous.

Mireles Lore.5942:

I love how the forum replaces swear words with kitten… lmao, brilliant.

It’s bad. Half the time I don’t even bother with the word I want to use and just type “kitten” on autopilot. The other half of the time, I’m actually thinking “kitten”.

Kitten sad.

I really hope they do something about this….they’re basically screwing over the small guilds in favor of the massive ones.

Hopefully the hype of these missions will dissolve, and that guild specific rewards that are rewarded separate from non-guild participants are guild based and not personal based. Otherwise we could see the end of small guilds.

Currently small guilds were able to exist because the mathematical bonus’ offered were not that significant, but i fear extra gold find, reduced way-point costs, on top of personal rewards specific for participating guild members will change this.

pencapchew.5432:

Here’s the thing. If a smaller guild was able to kick off these events they couldn’t finish them without outside help. The guild missions are designed to be difficult and require a decent amount of players.

Small guilds are crying now that they cant access this stuff, they will also cry later if Anet drops the prereq for entry and those small guilds cant finish it.

IMO this is a form of raiding. With that in mind you wouldn’t try to play content that is designed for 10 or 25 players with only 5 right?

Big guilds need stuff to do too. As mentioned earlier in this thread the only thing big guilds get to do is WVW. Everything else in this game is geared towards 5 people in a group.

I am in a big guild. We have about 490 people in the guild and there is ruffly 60-100 players on 24/7. Its also a international guild.

To me this is a welcome change. Its about time the bigger guilds have a chance to do something other then WvW.

Not to be rude but you are missing the point. Small guilds, at least mine and several I have seen post in here, are not upset that there will be content designed for larger groups to take on. We are upset that there appears to be ONLY larger group content and nothing for a small guild to start and run.

I do not bemoan the fact that my little guild cannot capture a temple in Orr when we have the Karma to spend, we need to hook up with a larger group to accomplish this. I hope there is a good amount of content for larger guilds to take on and feel a great sense of accomplishment. I just want to have lower tier missions that smaller guilds can do that while trivial to a large guild will be a challenge to us and still yield rewards and progress towards unlocks even if all the rewards are smaller if the scaling is different for the missions making my guild take a little longer to get the unlocks.

It sounds to me that it offends you that a small guild would want content also. This game was designed and marketed as an inclusive game, but this content is looking decidedly exclusive and you are happy with that? Your large guild looks to have roughly 20.4% of its members on 24/7. My little guild has 50% of its members on for 4 to 7 hours each day, it is a six man guild, so what? The only thing you do different in game than me is have a larger friend list or guild roster, fundamentally we put in the same effort, do the same grind and complete the same events/ dungeons. Why does a larger group of people deserve anything that cannot be also experienced in a small guild?

If done properly it would mimic the current events already in the game ie…Zone champions have spawned that my little guild takes on and then the Dragons spawn that we join up with a larger force to take out, or jump in WvW and we go around and cap supplies and flags and defend as we can, meet up with a massive defending force and we join a larger group to battle it out. Just a few examples of how there is already the ability for small and large guilds to work in the game to accomplish goals both small and large and still be rewarded equally both in a sense of accomplishment and with in game drops, currency, whatever.

Short answer?

It takes alot more work to maintain the membership and interests of oh lets say 100+ people more than it does 10.

While i understand that this puts small guilds at a disadvantage, in terms of attractiveness… This is welcome content for those of us that have guilds that do 5 man activities that people have to sit out for because there is only 5 people to a party. This is much needed bonding content for people with large guilds.

That being said, they should have considered the reward structure a little better, if there are guild wide bonus that are only obtainable threw these missions and not influence that is going to be a big burn on small guilds ability to retain representing members.

I think it will come down to the rewards from participating. If they can find a way to let guilds that participate get guild merits as well to spend in their guild then I think it will help ease things over. Maybe if a guild starts it they get 10 merits and the guilds that participate get like 2.. or something like that.

That way small guilds can still build up their influence to run the event started by larger guilds and still get guild currency to spend on the new guild perks.

Also if the rewards are not good enough for these events then the population will not be tempted to help the small guilds or larger guilds.. but if the rewards are there then guilds of all sizes should be able to gather enough people to help them complete the mission.

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

The point is that Anet has continually talked about guild missions being something that all guilds will be able to do. Size not being a major issue point that was talked about. With the system looking as it does now(Having to have tier 5 benefits being a big one), smaller guilds are getting screwed out of this. And your argument is what? “You want to do the good content? Join a big guild”?

I have a guild of about 30 people with about 1/3 of them being active most of the time. And 1/2 of the remaining 1/3 being semi-active. But even before the huge content update announcement it’s been hard to pick up recruits if you have any standards at all. Now with this new content update and adding rewards such as “MOAR MONEY” and “LESS COSTS FOR TRAVEL YO” it’s going to seriously gimp recruiting ability….which is already pretty horrible as it is.

Now I’ve enjoyed most of the content updates they’ve released since launch.

Ascended gear I liked(even though I’m not using any)
Fractals are fun
Guesting is awesome(even though it’s not currently able to transfer between countries)
Making the dungeons more difficult is awesome.

But this…..this just sounds like a very bad idea that’s going to kill many smaller guilds in favor of a mega guild.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

Don’t want everything…

I just wonder if the playerbase would be as a whole would be more satisfied with this patch if they perhaps put in guild missions on a smaller scale, for smaller guilds. Or at least a smaller gateway, with less reward.

kinda makes sense, allowing guilds to progress and all that. I’d also prefer not to think of how anything was in WoW, thanks.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

I am not asking for everything, and I used to raid extensively in WoW in a fairly large guild to which I was a co founder and helped lead so I know full well the head aches that can be found in larger guilds. Even WoW lowered raid requirements and implemented 10 man raids since only 5% of their playerbase even saw a single raid, and they had over 11 million players. My choice to belong to a small guild in a game that has been marketed as not be exclusionary to ANY player should not be looked down upon when the content starts to drift in that exclusive direction.

There is a massive amount of small group content and there is just as much large group content as well. Orr Temples, Dragons, WvW, Southsun Cove if you want to farm there and soon to be host to guild missions. There are multiple ways for guild leaders to organize events for larger group activities as well if they decide to do so and there is interest in the guild to have a group outing, all of this in the current game as is.

Larger guilds should not get a special reward because several individuals decided to take on a leadership responsibility. They should get what they currently do, the same rewards I get in my small guild, but you get them faster because you have the ability to field more troops. Being a part of a guild gets you advantages that have been built into the game, being in a large guild gets you nothing more than what a small guild gets, and that is intended design. It allows those that want a large community to have that while not penalizing those that want to have a small tight knit group instead.

I agree there are other ways to experience the content, no different than when I join up with 30 other players to kill a Dragon or storm a keep in WvW. The difference is when I join up to kill a dragon or take a keep, I still get full credit as does my guild for participating in the event. Taking away my ability to be fully rewarded for my actions while maintaining my ties to my guild is a serious design flaw no matter how you cut it. I have experienced this entire game to date with my small guild, I have not been bard from a single event, reward, story line, or massively epic WvW battle, why start releasing content now that does keep me away?

Again I’ll state small guilds are not asking to have it OUR WAY, we are asking Anet to stay true to the originally stated design of their game and that is to be and inclusive community building game. To not create an atmosphere of elitism, haves and have nots, that was not their intention at least when they marketed the game, we want it to stay that way. Introduce very challenging content that large guilds can do and smaller guilds can join in on, but let all participating parties be rewarded equally for participating just like the rest of the game currently does.

People people, lets be real here.

Look at how the game rewards you now.

Do you really think these guild missions are gonna reward you with anything much better? My guess is no.

Either way it doesn’t SEEM like these missions are going to have enough content to keep people occupied for more than a week after the patch drops anyway.

Guild missions should be for guilds and for guilds only. Not for some random pugs to come wandering over. Since pugs can participate, they’re not exactly GUILD missions now are they?

The only need of guilds right now is for someone with a tag to flip some sort of ON switch so that everyone can participate in this really great DE that lasts 20 minutes.

oh joy. oh rapture.

I’m sorry but this game needs raids. I’ll let Arenanet decide how to balance that within the systems of GW2 (cuz i’m not stupid enough to think it’s gotta work like WoW to be successful) but there’s an utter lack of challenging content for guilds to take on.

This upcoming stuff I can almost guarantee will be faceroll fluff that’ll serve as the flavor of the month for March and will be completely forgotten afterwards. And also, based on the way we’re currently “rewarded” I doubt these new guild bonuses are going to be worth the time.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

And yet, what i hear is “You will have nothing”

I don’t understand why this content doesn’t scale dynamically like the rest of the open world content.

Here’s my suggestion(s) ArenaNet:

1.) Dynamically scale the Guild Missions. They are in the open world where everything scales. Include those in on it. Win/Win for all.

2.) Create a new Guild Tab for Guild Missions. It should have it’s own tiering system because it is its own thing.

3.) Let players know the direction you are heading in without making us read in between the lines with your actions because they don’t match your words. Unless of course you don’t want honest backlash to things we honestly don’t want or like. Your actions are telling us you want us in big guilds.

4.) Implement a plan of action to lift the number of guilds we can be in like you guys have been saying since WAY before the game came out. This wouldn’t even be a problem except for the fact that you let us have 10 guild alliances in GW1. As a leader of a 10 guild Alliance, I can’t even be in all the guilds of my friends dating way back to 2007!

tic.7425:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

Don’t want everything…

Just don’t understand how much more difficult it would have been to have guild missions on a smaller scale, for smaller guilds. Or at least a smaller gateway, with less reward.

kinda makes sense, allowing guilds to progress and all that. I’d also prefer not to think of how anything was in WoW, thanks.

Why do they need to make content meant for large scale co-ordination available for tiny guilds?
In fact, it is available, it’ll just take the smaller guilds longer to gain the influence necessary to start the events. So what’s the issue?
Not having enough people to do the content? That’s an issue for your guild.
If I wanted to start a 2 person guild, would I complain about not having enough people to run a 5-man dungeon?

Is the issue not being able to do the content on day 1 of it being released? Again, that’s an issue for your guild and not having the influence and the proper upgrades. If people want to be in small party-sized guilds… do they really expect for their guild to access content and rewards as fast as larger guilds?

Play your own way? Nobody says you are required to join guilds of any size. Playing in large guilds will clearly be advantageous for guild missions, but nobody is stopping anyone from being in small guilds and accessing the content at a slower pace.
Stop blaming ANet for things that are entirely in your control.

Breytes.6901:

pencapchew.5432:

Here’s the thing. If a smaller guild was able to kick off these events they couldn’t finish them without outside help. The guild missions are designed to be difficult and require a decent amount of players.

Small guilds are crying now that they cant access this stuff, they will also cry later if Anet drops the prereq for entry and those small guilds cant finish it.

IMO this is a form of raiding. With that in mind you wouldn’t try to play content that is designed for 10 or 25 players with only 5 right?

Big guilds need stuff to do too. As mentioned earlier in this thread the only thing big guilds get to do is WVW. Everything else in this game is geared towards 5 people in a group.

I am in a big guild. We have about 490 people in the guild and there is ruffly 60-100 players on 24/7. Its also a international guild.

To me this is a welcome change. Its about time the bigger guilds have a chance to do something other then WvW.

Not to be rude but you are missing the point. Small guilds, at least mine and several I have seen post in here, are not upset that there will be content designed for larger groups to take on. We are upset that there appears to be ONLY larger group content and nothing for a small guild to start and run.

I do not bemoan the fact that my little guild cannot capture a temple in Orr when we have the Karma to spend, we need to hook up with a larger group to accomplish this. I hope there is a good amount of content for larger guilds to take on and feel a great sense of accomplishment. I just want to have lower tier missions that smaller guilds can do that while trivial to a large guild will be a challenge to us and still yield rewards and progress towards unlocks even if all the rewards are smaller if the scaling is different for the missions making my guild take a little longer to get the unlocks.

It sounds to me that it offends you that a small guild would want content also. This game was designed and marketed as an inclusive game, but this content is looking decidedly exclusive and you are happy with that? Your large guild looks to have roughly 20.4% of its members on 24/7. My little guild has 50% of its members on for 4 to 7 hours each day, it is a six man guild, so what? The only thing you do different in game than me is have a larger friend list or guild roster, fundamentally we put in the same effort, do the same grind and complete the same events/ dungeons. Why does a larger group of people deserve anything that cannot be also experienced in a small guild?

If done properly it would mimic the current events already in the game ie…Zone champions have spawned that my little guild takes on and then the Dragons spawn that we join up with a larger force to take out, or jump in WvW and we go around and cap supplies and flags and defend as we can, meet up with a massive defending force and we join a larger group to battle it out. Just a few examples of how there is already the ability for small and large guilds to work in the game to accomplish goals both small and large and still be rewarded equally both in a sense of accomplishment and with in game drops, currency, whatever.

Well if you put that way i can see your side. I guess I have missed the point. I do apologize for that. Let’s hope that Anet includes missions that are directed towards smaller guilds. I really do think Anet needs to add alliances to the game. Just like in Gw1. So when a guild in the alliance kicks off an event all guilds that get involved in the alliance will get credit for their individual guilds.

I still think the person who had the idea of letting people be in multiple guilds on 1 character was a moron personally. It totally kills guild loyalty.

Shonie.5297:

tic.7425:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

Don’t want everything…

Just don’t understand how much more difficult it would have been to have guild missions on a smaller scale, for smaller guilds. Or at least a smaller gateway, with less reward.

kinda makes sense, allowing guilds to progress and all that. I’d also prefer not to think of how anything was in WoW, thanks.

Why do they need to make content meant for large scale co-ordination available for tiny guilds?
In fact, it is available, it’ll just take the smaller guilds longer to gain the influence necessary to start the events. So what’s the issue?
Not having enough people to do the content? That’s an issue for your guild.
If I wanted to start a 2 person guild, would I complain about not having enough people to run a 5-man dungeon?

Is the issue not being able to do the content on day 1 of it being released? Again, that’s an issue for your guild and not having the influence and the proper upgrades. If people want to be in small party-sized guilds… do they really expect for their guild to access content and rewards as fast as larger guilds?

Play your own way? Nobody says you are required to join guilds of any size. Playing in large guilds will clearly be advantageous for guild missions, but nobody is stopping anyone from being in small guilds and accessing the content at a slower pace.
Stop blaming ANet for things that are entirely in your control.

And what exactly is the detriment to making lesser guild missions for smaller guilds?

Especially if we are trying to recruit other folks. Wouldn’t inviting some to our guild events help our recruiting effort some? Or should i just spam Lions Arch all day?

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

And it’s hard to ignore the fact that raids were specifically left out of this game because of their exclusionary mechanics. The tough content is restricted to small groups, which are easily maintained — OK, try to keep up here — by SMALL GUILDS. See the magic?

Pretty bad example to use to support your point.

Not sure how many ways this needs to be said (smoke signals and hieroglypics are next) — small guilds don’t want EVERYTHING, they just don’t want to be shut out of EVERYTHING.

That’s the way the system appears to be designed now. And not only that, this system actively compromises their ability to grow by making membership unattractive to many a possible recruit. This system throws everything into the laps of the larger guilds and not only excludes many small guilds from even STARTING the new content for weeks or months, but inhibits their prospects of further growth. And it’s not just a matter of getting new people on board, but even keeping the ones you have.

This isn’t difficult to grasp. Consolidating the community into a handful of mega-guilds is NOT a good idea. Not sure why so many can’t wrap their grey matter around it.

tic.7425:

Shonie.5297:

tic.7425:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

Don’t want everything…

Just don’t understand how much more difficult it would have been to have guild missions on a smaller scale, for smaller guilds. Or at least a smaller gateway, with less reward.

kinda makes sense, allowing guilds to progress and all that. I’d also prefer not to think of how anything was in WoW, thanks.

Why do they need to make content meant for large scale co-ordination available for tiny guilds?
In fact, it is available, it’ll just take the smaller guilds longer to gain the influence necessary to start the events. So what’s the issue?
Not having enough people to do the content? That’s an issue for your guild.
If I wanted to start a 2 person guild, would I complain about not having enough people to run a 5-man dungeon?

Is the issue not being able to do the content on day 1 of it being released? Again, that’s an issue for your guild and not having the influence and the proper upgrades. If people want to be in small party-sized guilds… do they really expect for their guild to access content and rewards as fast as larger guilds?

Play your own way? Nobody says you are required to join guilds of any size. Playing in large guilds will clearly be advantageous for guild missions, but nobody is stopping anyone from being in small guilds and accessing the content at a slower pace.
Stop blaming ANet for things that are entirely in your control.

And what exactly is the detriment to making lesser guild missions for smaller guilds?

Especially if we are trying to recruit other folks. Wouldn’t inviting some to our guild events help our recruiting effort some? Or should i just spam Lions Arch all day?

I guess I don’t get why everything needs to be designed to cater to people who don’t want to play with others in MMO’s.
This is a perfect example…
“make content small scale so I barely have to play with other people in this MMO”
“I just want to do things with my 2 friends in my 3-person guild, make all content doable for our tiny group!”
I do see the point of view from people in smaller guilds, I was just under the impression that GW2 is an MMO and not a single-player or co-op rpg.

I guess if one expects large group content do be doable by only a few people, I hope you are all very good at your professions.

I like that Guild Missions are in Art of War level 5. Many reasons why, just wanted to input that not everyone is crying about this, and would prefer it not be changed because of excess complaining.

Should of just added a new tree so everyone goes into these missions on a level field.
Each batch of new missions requiring a higher level in that tree.

Blacklight.2871:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

And it’s hard to ignore the fact that raids were specifically left out of this game because of their exclusionary mechanics. The tough content is restricted to small groups, which are easily maintained — OK, try to keep up here — by SMALL GUILDS. See the magic?

Pretty bad example to use to support your point.

Not sure how many ways this needs to be said (smoke signals and hieroglypics are next) — small guilds don’t want EVERYTHING, they just don’t want to be shut out of EVERYTHING.

That’s the way the system appears to be designed now. And not only that, this system actively compromises their ability to grow by making membership unattractive to many a possible recruit. This system throws everything into the laps of the larger guilds and not only excludes many small guilds from even STARTING the new content for weeks or months, but inhibits their prospects of further growth. And it’s not just a matter of getting new people on board, but even keeping the ones you have.

This isn’t difficult to grasp. Consolidating the community into a handful of mega-guilds is NOT a good idea. Not sure why so many can’t wrap their grey matter around it.

Are the guild rewards from guild missions so utterly mind-boggling that everyone in small guilds will be required to join larger guilds?
Does not getting the ‘guild rewards’ from the ‘guild missions’ cut you off from the rest of the game?
I’m not sure exactly what people are complaining about. You can join in other guilds’ missions in the open world for personal rewards.

Maybe in a year your 3 person guild won’t be able to make a guild castle?
Good, I think.

Anyways, carry on.

Shonie.5297:

tic.7425:

Shonie.5297:

tic.7425:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

Don’t want everything…

Just don’t understand how much more difficult it would have been to have guild missions on a smaller scale, for smaller guilds. Or at least a smaller gateway, with less reward.

kinda makes sense, allowing guilds to progress and all that. I’d also prefer not to think of how anything was in WoW, thanks.

Why do they need to make content meant for large scale co-ordination available for tiny guilds?
In fact, it is available, it’ll just take the smaller guilds longer to gain the influence necessary to start the events. So what’s the issue?
Not having enough people to do the content? That’s an issue for your guild.
If I wanted to start a 2 person guild, would I complain about not having enough people to run a 5-man dungeon?

Is the issue not being able to do the content on day 1 of it being released? Again, that’s an issue for your guild and not having the influence and the proper upgrades. If people want to be in small party-sized guilds… do they really expect for their guild to access content and rewards as fast as larger guilds?

Play your own way? Nobody says you are required to join guilds of any size. Playing in large guilds will clearly be advantageous for guild missions, but nobody is stopping anyone from being in small guilds and accessing the content at a slower pace.
Stop blaming ANet for things that are entirely in your control.

And what exactly is the detriment to making lesser guild missions for smaller guilds?

Especially if we are trying to recruit other folks. Wouldn’t inviting some to our guild events help our recruiting effort some? Or should i just spam Lions Arch all day?

I guess I don’t get why everything needs to be designed to cater to people who don’t want to play with others in MMO’s.
This is a perfect example…
“make content small scale so I barely have to play with other people in this MMO”
“I just want to do things with my 2 friends in my 3-person guild, make all content doable for our tiny group!”
I do see the point of view from people in smaller guilds, I was just under the impression that GW2 is an MMO and not a single-player or co-op rpg.

I guess if one expects large group content do be doable by only a few people, I hope you are all very good at your professions.

I said i don’t want want to play with others when exactly?

Did i ever say i want to solo the things?

I’ve been playing MMOs a really really long time, I did a whole lot of stuff in NWN , UO, and SWG, that didnt take a guild of 100, 50, or 25 to accomplish, so please don’t make it sound like this is SOP for MMOs.

I’d like these things to scale lower, so, as i said, I’m not the knucklehead endlessly standing in LA spamming guild recruitment, while mega-guild #7 just needs to ask who wants to do a guild mission.

Who do you think is going to get the faster response?

Or should i just join the mega-guild?

My two major concerns are that this is all casual player content anyone in the world can walk up and assist with regardless of guild. That by sheer numbers, the missions are trivial.

Secondly, I wonder why these missions are of any use. There is no player progression through this system.

If the buff gained from the missions are not permanent then why am I going to run around as a deer for 30 minutes or do the same ‘more-projectiles’ DE chains with a guild?

For a guild banner logo?
For a 30 min buff so I can grind more gold to buy more cash shop gamble items?

The missions seem utterly pointless &/or trivial.

seems to me, that as usual (for an MMO) two camps but heads.
camp one, who loves to be in a large mob of players, who feel at home with 50+ players all vying for their spot in the sun, and camp 2, who prefers something a little more sedate.

now, most reasonable people here would agree yes, that while its not fair for large groups to be locked out of content for any reason, its IS fair for small groups to be forced out of content totaly, or forced out of it for a period of time?

see, it is NOT fair for ANYONE to be forced out of content. be they huge groups of 100+ members or tiny parties of 5 or so players. guild wars 2 was BUILT on the premis of NO ONE LEFT BEHIND! wasnt it?

im not here arguing where the content should have been gated. it realy should not have been gated at all. its much simple and easier to please a community as a WHOLE if you seperate sections up for consuming at various rates.

for example. your guild has 5-10 players consistanly on. you dont get the huge events in the wild, instead you could trigger a single man hunt over a starting area map. new players to the game can now SEE the small time events that being in a smaller group give you the ability to access. they can try helping you, be they your group or not. and like as not they will enjoy the small content.
on the flip side, your part of a 100 strong party. you get to take down multiple targets across more than 3 maps. you need to co-ordinate with voice talk and other group orientated tactics. many players in the area can see this happening, might help drive the targets one way or the other towards your hunters.

ether way, EVERYONE gets some fun. and i think that is one thing everyone is after. that ALL get the fun. too often we the players, have been sat there, relegated to watching kitten on you tube or seeing packs of zerging groups roll past us. and it leaves a sour taste in a persons mouth to know that, because it was designed to be this way, it should be this way ? afaik it was supposed to be different playing guildwars2.
i also do not think anyone from the smaller guilds WANTS everything handed to them. they are upset about being relegated again to the back of the pack. here, have a scrap of content? no we’re too lowly to deserve that right, we got less that 20 people on at one time right fellers? i thought that kind of community was left behind with the big guns that remain nameless…
the game is designed to be PvE centric, so therefor most of it is designed to be done by small partied of 5 or so and that is how it is. and while it IS fair that there be stuff for the big groups to do, why is it so hard to see where the little guys feelings get burned here? how can it harm the huge group if there is a nice, little event that the kiddies in the 5 mans can do, which gives them the warm fuzzies and all? infact, it keeps them from being underfoot, right? keep the simple small missions in the neowbie areas right, and the BIG stuff in the high level areas so whats so wrong with that?

Scaling to smaller guilds is out of the question. If they did that, those guilds would not be required to disband and join mega guilds for new content. Which would clearly be a perk for mega guilds. Hence so much disdain for smaller guilds requesting equality. Mega guilds do not want equality as then their existence is not mandatory to continue the game.
I can see why there is so much bitterness on both sides. I mean most guilds would love to be the “to be in guild of gw2” After reading every post, there is selfishness coming from both sides. Not from everyone. As there are valid points from both side.
I feel some of us are beating a dead horse thinking we can still ride. Anet will do whatever it wants and we will have a new horse to ride next month. Lets hope its a thoroughbred.

Shonie.5297:

Blacklight.2871:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

And it’s hard to ignore the fact that raids were specifically left out of this game because of their exclusionary mechanics. The tough content is restricted to small groups, which are easily maintained — OK, try to keep up here — by SMALL GUILDS. See the magic?

Pretty bad example to use to support your point.

Not sure how many ways this needs to be said (smoke signals and hieroglypics are next) — small guilds don’t want EVERYTHING, they just don’t want to be shut out of EVERYTHING.

That’s the way the system appears to be designed now. And not only that, this system actively compromises their ability to grow by making membership unattractive to many a possible recruit. This system throws everything into the laps of the larger guilds and not only excludes many small guilds from even STARTING the new content for weeks or months, but inhibits their prospects of further growth. And it’s not just a matter of getting new people on board, but even keeping the ones you have.

This isn’t difficult to grasp. Consolidating the community into a handful of mega-guilds is NOT a good idea. Not sure why so many can’t wrap their grey matter around it.

Are the guild rewards from guild missions so utterly mind-boggling that everyone in small guilds will be required to join larger guilds?
Does not getting the ‘guild rewards’ from the ‘guild missions’ cut you off from the rest of the game?
I’m not sure exactly what people are complaining about. You can join in other guilds’ missions in the open world for personal rewards.

Maybe in a year your 3 person guild won’t be able to make a guild castle?
Good, I think.

Anyways, carry on.

If guild content is put in the game, why in the world would guilds ever want to experience it? I mean, how kitten logic defying is it, that guilds might want to come together as a group (small or large) to take on content designed for guilds to take on.

Where is it written that the only reason to ever do anything in this game is when there’s a hope of significant payoff? You realize that some guilds (and yeah, they actually do this!), make up their own events for their members, just for the laughs? No tokens will be earned, no laurels received, no gold lining pockets, nothing like that. And sometimes, gold will leave pockets because they do incomprehensible stuff like buying boxes’o’fun and leaving them out for anyone to play with. I swear to GAWD I’ve seen it happen!!

I’m sorry you’re so myopic that you can’t see why small guilds might want to experience content designed specifically for guilds, without a major payoff to be had. You must live in a very listless world, under a very grey sky. /sympathy

I think it is perfectly OK for there to be content small guilds can not access. My guild is just 3 people. Are you going to make it so that our guild can reach this content too? If so it could practically be done solo and what is the point of calling it a guild activity. Bigger guilds with access to more resources will have access to more stuff. It’s crazy to expect otherwise. Anet has already gone out of their way to accommodate small guilds.

Nobody is asking for the ability to be able to do all the guild missions with only 3 people. However making it so only the huge guilds with tons of influence(by doing nothing but having tons of people) are the only viable options is just stupid.

I have a guild of about 15 active people currently. I don’t want anything handed to me, but with the implementation they’re talking about using for this; it’s going to make it incredibly difficult for small guilds to recruit(which is already pretty difficult) because the bigger guilds will be able to offer them perks from doing the missions(such as lower costs for travel, increased gold, etc.) all the time that the smaller guilds won’t be able to do.

yes, but why SHOULD being in a mega guild be better?
by that logic, why have more than one guild per server? mean if bigger is better, why bother at all? why allow players to create guilds? after the first one or two i mean.

dont get me wrong. being in a large guild should have benefits. but so should being in a close knit group of players who know eachother. the benefits of being in a big guild should be different to being in a small guild. not mutualy exclusive.

large guilds are needed for the WvW setup right? someone earlier mentioned that smaller groups of less mega huge guilds were needed to work together to capture the forts and stuff.
while as the much smaller PvE focusted and non PvP centric guilds are mostly unable to keep and hold these places (and, if they are sensible, if they cant hold it, should leave it for the guys that can i certainly wouldnt consider trying to keep a fort if i knew my party was pants at it. i personaly sux bigtime at PvP so i dont take the spot from someone who might be good at it lol)

so by the logic that by not allowing the little guy a chance at a much smaller version of content, forcing them to join a mega guild…why have the ability to form guilds in the first place? just get a single Anet employee per server, to make a official guild and boom, they you go right? much nicer right, everyone marching in line with the bosses? sheesh.

also. why the frell would new content be only allowed for mega guilds? new stuff is supposed to be for everyone right? or did they suddently change their stance and decide that only the ‘worthy’ are allowed to see it? when did we fall back into world of raidcraft?

Mireles Lore.5942:

I got to say people’s concerns here are very legitimate. This is a nail in the coffin for guilds with fewer than 10-15 people. Over the weekend I have had 4 guilds of this size adsorbed into my guild for the sole reason of me having AoW lvl 5. Most of them had planned to rep mine when I host missions, but it seems like some of their members have not returned to their small guilds to rep like their leaders would like them too. Mostly because of activity and bonus’.

Having a AoW level 5 requirement and dropping that fact days before release was the worst thing Anet could have done for small guilds…. I feel for leaders that have lost membership in these ways, they had no time to prepare whats so ever, and instilling doubt early before release is whats screwing them. Anet should have given more advanced warning about the requirement or not have given any advanced warning at all. All the warning did, was make people scramble to get into better position to earn new rewards, where as if they didn’t know before hand, they may have been more inclined to stay in their smaller guilds and grind it out.

The whole being able to join multiple guilds is pretty pointless if you ask me, when you can only represent, earn influence, receive bonus, and communicate with one at time. Its probably the worst thing Anet could have done for the guild structure, because of course, people are going to rep the guild that can earn them the most reward and it just fragments membership

This, so much this – I agree with pretty much everything on here, I honostly never understood the concept of being able to join several guilds at the same time, since it seems to split the playerbase a lot more, atleast in my experience – You never know if the guy who joined your guild will be representing for good or will stop, and then come back, or what.

At the same time, having the AoW 5 for these missions with so many guilds not even investing in it even if you got AoW 4 you still need 20K influence and 7 days of time before you can start doing it, and not only that if you want to start doing them before that, you’ll have to invest even more influence into the probably above what, 50K influence for the 25% of the progress bar ?

At the same time you also need influence for starting these missions, and we don’t even know how much they are going to cost – are they 2K or 5K or 500 only like some of the other upgrades ?

I’m not even sure if the first one you can get no matter what is the Bounty Missions or if you got Politics level 5 that you’ll get something else instead ?

Or is it only Art of War that will allow you to do these guild missions ? All the info on this seems extremely vauge.

I was a bit dissapointed by the requirements first but now im fine with it. I think we should wait and see after the patch. Maybe the upgrades we can earn though missions will also be new stuff we can get with influence without doing them and missions are just an alternate way to get those things.

These missions are reported to be not easy…More for the guild that has done that, been there, and got the t shirt too. Coordination will be required, i get the feeling that you will have to do something at the same time, but on different maps (like pull levers/ activate/commune) something that will take a few seconds to do so you have “same time” overlap and that one toon cannot wp to the next step.

It would have been nice if arenanet had communicated better. But their reasoning for making it art of war is perfectly reasonable and legit. they want art of war more viable for pve guilds. For those smaller guilds,members can enjoy missions kicked off by other guilds in the meantime,even if they arent a member. Also theres always the option of pooling money for influence for impatient people. At least they gave us enough of a notice that smaller guilds could have at least started towards AOW5 before the patch hits tommorows.

yes, but riddle, their left hand said ‘its cool, any guild can do it, given some time or a bit of gold’ and then their right hand admits in a dark back room (so to speak) ‘well gees, actualy once you get into it, you have to have 30+ people to actualy get anywhere, so realy its just for the biggest people to zerg tactic it’

generaly speaking.
this is what a lot of players are angry about. on the one hand they told everyone that even the small guilds could do it all, and then the other hand admits that even if a small guild can start it, they can never finish it unless they ether recrute like a mother (which will not be possable. after all what can these little guilds possably offer to them to make them join? real world cash? their daughters virtue? lol) to stand a chance of finishing

yes, as a little guild you can join in yeah so you get to do (some of the ) work and get a bone at the end of it. and watch as the big guild people get the shineys. thats realy realy fun now isnt it?
all the little guilds want, is to FEEL they are progressing, even if they never would reach the end. and not with Uber McMassive the borg collective guild of 400 players. but with UncleJoe’s little legue 10 man guild. because part of the premis of GW2 was that even the little guy had a place to play and have fun.

the bounty one – that’s the one with a world-wide boss hunt? if they are champions, you are never gonna finish in what – 15 minutes? smaller guild will probably have trouble, of course, but larger guild with many non-reps or active members present at the same time might have trouble too.

i wish i could kick all my guild’s non-reppers, and make room for players that want to rep and play.

i still think it should be a guild’s separate instance instead of one where players can happily leech or join up randomly. it should not work like Dynamic Events, where players congregate for 5 minutes at a time then collect rewards and then leave. i am still hoping it is a solid GUILD experience, with only guild members.

there are enough DE’s in the world to satisfy that niche – guild bounties and map races and other guild content should be guild-only events. i didn’t join a guild to just repeat new dynamic events that can include EVERYONE on the map – i joined to have fun with the people i joined up with.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

I love it how the main point of my argument has been forgotten because of something i said at the end. Ok admittedley joining a bigger guild isnt the best alternative for someone who is part of a very small guild. BUT IT IS A OPTION. And considering anyone can join in with the content as soon as it kicks off, there are other options for experiencing the content.

MY MAIN POINT THOUGH, is that small guilds cannot have everything their own way, just like large guilds cannot either. You make sacrifices because of play style and as Anet have stated again and again, there is a whole games worth of 5 man content out there, but nothing at all (apart from rubbish open world bosses) for larger groups to play.
The funny thing is i hear you all spouting about large guilds like they are null from problems. There are disadvantages and advantages to each type of guild (im actually a member of a few guilds, including a larger wvw one and small casual friends one).

Think about it like it was WOW. You know for a fact that to do any form of raid your 5 man guild will either have to
- recruit more
- play with another guild or group
- miss out on the content

Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

No i will not think of it like WoW. I play this game because its not Panda Sell Out to the extreme make me money more piles of money to wipe my rear end with.

If you want to think of this game which was advertised as being a stand out and something different than WoW, might i suggest you go play that game instead.

Those of us who still want the game to deliver on the promises made pre-beta and going into live still have every right to participate in the aspects of this game even if its with only 5 other people.

if they make them guild only, and YOUR guild only…. how are you going to use that as a way to syphon off players from the little guilds, into your maga-corp guild?

(the reason they are open is that GW2 seems to want players to help eachother. after all, there is none of the wow mentality of ‘my kill’ or ‘my node’ or even ‘my loot’ here. just a bunch of players supposedly helping eachother out. while at the same time, the gating they are using is definately NOT friendly, chummy or helpfull. again with the confusing signals lol)

while i do agree, there should be some things that are for a guild and ONLY for that guild. those things should be much further down the unlock tree. more thing, smaller things, larger things. what most of us are asking for is different sizes, for differing sized guilds. so that there is something for everyone to do.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

…
Again ill say; YOU CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING.

And why is this?; simply because a team of developers decided that a percentage of the player base could have this new content easily and the rest could suck it up and maybe take part later.

In real life you cannot have everything. Guildwars 2 is not real life.

maybe, make the content into the different guild upgrade tiers. with each tier, the amount of content increases, as the difficulty. maybe it will work like this anyways, but starting at level 5 of a upgrade tier kind of bugs some the wrong way.

at level 1, make the most basic modes (easier?) available at this tier.
at level 2, this would have maybe 2-3 additional event types. difficulty scale starts, here (maybe like fractals?)
at level 3, + number of events, or the existing ones get tougher.
at level 4, etc, all the way to w/e level of guild tier max.

so basically they should make it like fractals. with more people, and out in the world instead of shoehorning it into ONE AREA.

also give laurels for completion of guild events should quell all of the complaining about laurels, since there will be another way of obtaining them, but only once a day, so you can only get one for daily, and one for guild event, per day.

Medazolam.3058:

rizzo.1079:

I’m concerned that our guild has been hard gated out of building this new content ourselves. At our current rate of influence gain, without mass recruiting people which we will not do, we’re looking at 60+ days of influence gathering plus build time to get AoW to lv 5. Please reconsider introducing missions that smaller tier guilds can initiate, possibly starting around 1k influence to build. With that floor, even single person guilds can amass enough influence in a week or two of casual playing to at least initiate one mission.

Why dont you just buy influence with gold?

^ This.. is the answer. This is EXACTLY why Art of war 5 is required. Its called buisness sense. Most guilds DON’T have AoW 5. the Majority is PVE based and do some wvw on the side. The first thing we all think of is USE GOLD to buy influence. what happens when we dont have enough in game gold? well, we buy gems and exchange them for gold of coarse. Don’t expect them to change it from AOW 5. That doesnt make MONEY. I dont blaimb them for doing it this way as a buisness man.. But as a player, Im extremely irritated. Id rather pay monthly for the game than have them dump this crap on us 3-4 days before the new content drops.

Darth.4329:

Medazolam.3058:

rizzo.1079:

I’m concerned that our guild has been hard gated out of building this new content ourselves. At our current rate of influence gain, without mass recruiting people which we will not do, we’re looking at 60+ days of influence gathering plus build time to get AoW to lv 5. Please reconsider introducing missions that smaller tier guilds can initiate, possibly starting around 1k influence to build. With that floor, even single person guilds can amass enough influence in a week or two of casual playing to at least initiate one mission.

Why dont you just buy influence with gold?

^ This.. is the answer. This is EXACTLY why Art of war 5 is required. Its called buisness sense. Most guilds DON’T have AoW 5. the Majority is PVE based and do some wvw on the side. The first thing we all think of is USE GOLD to buy influence. what happens when we dont have enough in game gold? well, we buy gems and exchange them for gold of coarse. Don’t expect them to change it from AOW 5. That doesnt make MONEY. I dont blaimb them for doing it this way as a buisness man.. But as a player, Im extremely irritated. Id rather pay monthly for the game than have them dump this crap on us 3-4 days before the new content drops.

….CONSPIRACY!!!!

I really want them to add tinfoil hats to the Trade Post.

Vorch.2985:

Darth.4329:

Medazolam.3058:

rizzo.1079:

I’m concerned that our guild has been hard gated out of building this new content ourselves. At our current rate of influence gain, without mass recruiting people which we will not do, we’re looking at 60+ days of influence gathering plus build time to get AoW to lv 5. Please reconsider introducing missions that smaller tier guilds can initiate, possibly starting around 1k influence to build. With that floor, even single person guilds can amass enough influence in a week or two of casual playing to at least initiate one mission.

Why dont you just buy influence with gold?

^ This.. is the answer. This is EXACTLY why Art of war 5 is required. Its called buisness sense. Most guilds DON’T have AoW 5. the Majority is PVE based and do some wvw on the side. The first thing we all think of is USE GOLD to buy influence. what happens when we dont have enough in game gold? well, we buy gems and exchange them for gold of coarse. Don’t expect them to change it from AOW 5. That doesnt make MONEY. I dont blaimb them for doing it this way as a buisness man.. But as a player, Im extremely irritated. Id rather pay monthly for the game than have them dump this crap on us 3-4 days before the new content drops.

….CONSPIRACY!!!!

I really want them to add tinfoil hats to the Trade Post.

Me too…this forum needs more tinfoil.

10 pages of posts about something we haven’t even seen yet

Silverbane.6905:

yes, but riddle, their left hand said ‘its cool, any guild can do it, given some time or a bit of gold’ and then their right hand admits in a dark back room (so to speak) ‘well gees, actualy once you get into it, you have to have 30+ people to actualy get anywhere, so realy its just for the biggest people to zerg tactic it’

generaly speaking.
this is what a lot of players are angry about. on the one hand they told everyone that even the small guilds could do it all, and then the other hand admits that even if a small guild can start it, they can never finish it unless they ether recrute like a mother (which will not be possable. after all what can these little guilds possably offer to them to make them join? real world cash? their daughters virtue? lol) to stand a chance of finishing

yes, as a little guild you can join in yeah so you get to do (some of the ) work and get a bone at the end of it. and watch as the big guild people get the shineys. thats realy realy fun now isnt it?
all the little guilds want, is to FEEL they are progressing, even if they never would reach the end. and not with Uber McMassive the borg collective guild of 400 players. but with UncleJoe’s little legue 10 man guild. because part of the premis of GW2 was that even the little guy had a place to play and have fun.

i doubt the validity of needing 30+ people to do guild missions….but even if that is true as you say. Your forgetting two MAJOR things:
1.Guild missions arent out yet so we really cant give it an honest judgement
2.Arenanet said we could join and help with other guilds guild missions, so for smaller guild they can probobly get them done with help from people who join in and help outside the guild i imagine if a guild is short on people.

while they said small guilds can do it…that doesnt nescesarily mean all small size guilds. Guild with 10 people or less might be too small while a guild of 25+ people is enough. Also guild activity is a factor.

Let’s just face the prime facts here, they are really more than enough people against this patch to warrant postponing the patch until a later date pending further investigation into how guild missions can be deployed in a better fashion. I personally haven’t logged in since Saturday ever since this was announced because for me, personally this is a total deal breaker – and from what I can gather talking to other people, a lot of other people will mostly quit too, some probably tomorrow, and others probably within the next week judging on how this plays out if they decide to push ahead.

The signs are already apparent that this is irrevocably destroying many small and casual guilds and the patch hasn’t even gone live yet. I think this really is the last chance for anet, do the right thing here – put pride aside.

What people are totally not getting the idea of what a small guild really is. This is purely because of the huge population imbalances on servers. Some servers are highly active, and others are dead – so many people here are only seeing one side of the issue, and lets face it – there are many issues this patch is bringing up.