Guild Wars 2

Shonie.5297:

If everything is scaled to accommodate the size of your guild, and content is done as easily in groups of 2 or 3 as it is with 30 or 40… then what is the point of guilds in the first place? I’m sorry this content doesn’t conform to the way you want it to work without the smallest bit of effort.

You still cannot access the content without a guild. It simply takes away the necessity of being in a large guild to complete it. There is no reason to force people to choose between content and friends—especially when said content has been advertised to be “content with friends.” Some people really love being part of the horde and some people actually have that many friends. Some of us really don’t love being part of the horde or managing the horde and would much rather laugh and strategize with a few friends. Both are perfectly normal and acceptable.

We don’t want content that is “easy” or requires no effort. We want content that is challenging but doable for whatever size guild we have. There are currently 6 people in my guild and I would like to be able to do this content with them. I’d like the challenge of coordinating and working together…with them.

Shonie.5297:

stobie.2134:

So -if Guild Missions were expanded to allow something for small guilds to do – how exactly is that ‘trivializing’ the large-scale bounties?

What if they offered a single guild bounty hunt worth 5 guild merits that is achievable by a small group and only offers 1 personal commendation?
You’re still looking at12 weeks for enough commendations for an earring and many more weeks to use the guild merits on upgrades. That wouldn’t trivialize larger group effort and is a compromise for smaller groups. It’s just a suggestion on my part.
There really does need to be incentives for group content in MMO’s, it’s always been that way. These games are always more fun when you get out and meet some new people in the gameworld. Honestly, we all share a common passion for the genre so we at least have that much in common. It’s not like everyone you run into is the anti-you out to ruin your experience.

Ok, this is a never ending circle. I’ll try another angle. The Myers-Briggs Personality Sorter. Probably most people know about this? This simple distinction is clearly making itself known here. You seem to be speaking from an extrovert’s point of view. Never mind the other classifications, but focusing on those 2 – there’s the problem. What to someone like you must be a joyous community is to an introvert just a dark day in the underworld. An introvert isn’t ‘anti-social,’ and they quite happily help others, form close friendships, & slowly integrate new people into their lives, & gaming worlds. But they do not enjoy the atmosphere of large groups. (I know women are traditionally viewed as more extroverted, but I’m not. I can give a speech or lead a workshop, or socialize at a convention because I have to, but it will be draining & I won’t remember it fondly.)

MMOs serve both types of people – or should. When games like Warcraft went more & more heavily into raid-sized content, people like me left. Guild Wars has no groups over 5 – none. That appealed to me, & clearly, to others. I have no problem with large guilds having content meant for large groups – but since Anet directly involved small guilds, with this topic, on facebook, then I think they must have some interest in appealing to us, too.

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

stobie.2134:

So -if Guild Missions were expanded to allow something for small guilds to do – how exactly is that ‘trivializing’ the large-scale bounties?

What if they offered a single guild bounty hunt worth 5 guild merits that is achievable by a small group and only offers 1 personal commendation?
You’re still looking at12 weeks for enough commendations for an earring and many more weeks to use the guild merits on upgrades. That wouldn’t trivialize larger group effort and is a compromise for smaller groups. It’s just a suggestion on my part.
There really does need to be incentives for group content in MMO’s, it’s always been that way. These games are always more fun when you get out and meet some new people in the gameworld. Honestly, we all share a common passion for the genre so we at least have that much in common. It’s not like everyone you run into is the anti-you out to ruin your experience.

The question still has not been answered. What does it take away from or “hurt” a large guild if small guilds can do SOMETHING too?

It takes away the MMO. It takes away the accomplishment of many people working together to accomplish a goal or task. If that isn’t something that appeals to you I’m not sure why you play the genre. One thing (guild missions) out of everything you can do in this game doesn’t conform to your small guild and you act as if your sky is falling.

That still does not answer the question. HOW does it take anything away? The large guild still exists. The large content can still exist. The only thing that is added, is a smaller group can do it too.

Again, how does that take anything away?

Is there even any reasoning with you?
I look back to my 6 years playing FFXI and remember nothing of value could be accomplished without large group effort. Threads like this and posters like you would be laughed out of the forums. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people think it’s legitimate to complain about everything they don’t like in a game as if it’s somehow possible to please millions of people in the same game. As if all content is amazing for every gamer out there.
It’s pretty simple really, either do the content or don’t. If there’s content you want to do and there’s prerequisites for the content (having enough people), then get enough people. The devs clearly wanted to add larger group content to the game. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. Go on playing like the content isn’t there and if you feel you need the earrings, save up your laurels and ectos.

Shonie.5297:

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

stobie.2134:

So -if Guild Missions were expanded to allow something for small guilds to do – how exactly is that ‘trivializing’ the large-scale bounties?

What if they offered a single guild bounty hunt worth 5 guild merits that is achievable by a small group and only offers 1 personal commendation?
You’re still looking at12 weeks for enough commendations for an earring and many more weeks to use the guild merits on upgrades. That wouldn’t trivialize larger group effort and is a compromise for smaller groups. It’s just a suggestion on my part.
There really does need to be incentives for group content in MMO’s, it’s always been that way. These games are always more fun when you get out and meet some new people in the gameworld. Honestly, we all share a common passion for the genre so we at least have that much in common. It’s not like everyone you run into is the anti-you out to ruin your experience.

The question still has not been answered. What does it take away from or “hurt” a large guild if small guilds can do SOMETHING too?

It takes away the MMO. It takes away the accomplishment of many people working together to accomplish a goal or task. If that isn’t something that appeals to you I’m not sure why you play the genre. One thing (guild missions) out of everything you can do in this game doesn’t conform to your small guild and you act as if your sky is falling.

That still does not answer the question. HOW does it take anything away? The large guild still exists. The large content can still exist. The only thing that is added, is a smaller group can do it too.

Again, how does that take anything away?

Is there even any reasoning with you?
I look back to my 6 years playing FFXI and remember nothing of value could be accomplished without large group effort. Threads like this and posters like you would be laughed out of the forums. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people think it’s legitimate to complain about everything they don’t like in a game as if it’s somehow possible to please millions of people in the same game. As if all content is amazing for every gamer out there.
It’s pretty simple really, either do the content or don’t. If there’s content you want to do and there’s prerequisites for the content (having enough people), then get enough people. The devs clearly wanted to add larger group content to the game. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. Go on playing like the content isn’t there and if you feel you need the earrings, save up your laurels and ectos.

“Threads like this one” meaning this thread…which was actually started by Anet….

Again, question not answered. What does a small guild being able to participate in these events take away from a large guild?

Ok… so we won’t play FFXI. And we’re not playing FFXI. So that’s settled.

We’re not complaining about ‘everything in the game.’ I’ve posted in one topic before this (I wanted to see what others thought of Trahearne, & learned that my own reaction was mild in comparison) This subject worries me, not just because of guild missions, but because of the game’s direction. Given that GW2 didn’t present itself as the heir to WoW or FFXI, I’d rather have a say before they make a shift.

As for playing like the content isn’t there, no. I’m already taking great joy in helping guilds find their targets. If the fight is there, I’ll happily help. But I will also continue to ask for Guild Mission content that my small guild can do.

Shonie.5297:

Is there even any reasoning with you?
I look back to my 6 years playing FFXI and remember nothing of value could be accomplished without large group effort. Threads like this and posters like you would be laughed out of the forums. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people think it’s legitimate to complain about everything they don’t like in a game as if it’s somehow possible to please millions of people in the same game. As if all content is amazing for every gamer out there.
It’s pretty simple really, either do the content or don’t. If there’s content you want to do and there’s prerequisites for the content (having enough people), then get enough people. The devs clearly wanted to add larger group content to the game. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. Go on playing like the content isn’t there and if you feel you need the earrings, save up your laurels and ectos.

1) This is GW2—not any other game.
2) This thread was created by Anet themselves for the sole purpose of voicing concerns and opinions on Guild Missions. Just because someone’s concerns and opinions are not yours or agree with yours does not make them less valid or valuable. Perhaps you don’t mean to come across as condescending, but you are and it really is uncalled for.

That said, I would counsel all of us to stop answering this poster at the risk of this becoming a flame-fest and the mods put an end to it.

Kasaeva.4691:

Shonie.5297:

Is there even any reasoning with you?
I look back to my 6 years playing FFXI and remember nothing of value could be accomplished without large group effort. Threads like this and posters like you would be laughed out of the forums. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people think it’s legitimate to complain about everything they don’t like in a game as if it’s somehow possible to please millions of people in the same game. As if all content is amazing for every gamer out there.
It’s pretty simple really, either do the content or don’t. If there’s content you want to do and there’s prerequisites for the content (having enough people), then get enough people. The devs clearly wanted to add larger group content to the game. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. Go on playing like the content isn’t there and if you feel you need the earrings, save up your laurels and ectos.

1) This is GW2—not any other game.
2) This thread was created by Anet themselves for the sole purpose of voicing concerns and opinions on Guild Missions. Just because someone’s concerns and opinions are not yours or agree with yours does not make them less valid or valuable. Perhaps you don’t mean to come across as condescending, but you are and it really is uncalled for.

That said, I would counsel all of us to stop answering this poster at the risk of this becoming a flame-fest and the mods put an end to it.

Point taken!

The point is, people who are in small guilds are there because they prefer it to large ones. This is no more right or wrong than preferring yellow mustard to brown.

stobie.2134:

Ok… so we won’t play FFXI. And we’re not playing FFXI. So that’s settled.

We’re not complaining about ‘everything in the game.’ I’ve posted in one topic before this (I wanted to see what others thought of Trahearne, & learned that my own reaction was mild in comparison) This subject worries me, not just because of guild missions, but because of the game’s direction. Given that GW2 didn’t present itself as the heir to WoW or FFXI, I’d rather have a say before they make a shift.

As for playing like the content isn’t there, no. I’m already taking great joy in helping guilds find their targets. If the fight is there, I’ll happily help. But I will also continue to ask for Guild Mission content that my small guild can do.

They aren’t “making a shift”… they’re simply adding some larger group content for guilds to optionally do. They also added a new sPvP map. Should I be disgusted that the focus of this game is on structured PvP? Or would that be ‘blowing it out of proportion’?

Chuo.4238:

The point is, people who are in small guilds are there because they prefer it to large ones. This is no more right or wrong than preferring yellow mustard to brown.

Lots of food items being mentioned tonight….I must be very suggestible. Now I am hungry..

Cora.9745:

Chuo.4238:

The point is, people who are in small guilds are there because they prefer it to large ones. This is no more right or wrong than preferring yellow mustard to brown.

Lots of food items being mentioned tonight….I must be very suggestible. Now I am hungry..

And I am still baking. The things you do to heat the house when the furnace is out . . .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Cora.9745:

Chuo.4238:

The point is, people who are in small guilds are there because they prefer it to large ones. This is no more right or wrong than preferring yellow mustard to brown.

Lots of food items being mentioned tonight….I must be very suggestible. Now I am hungry..

And I am still baking. The things you do to heat the house when the furnace is out . . .

Sounds good!
I’ll just be gnawing on this piece of stale bread….

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

Cora.9745:

Shonie.5297:

stobie.2134:

So -if Guild Missions were expanded to allow something for small guilds to do – how exactly is that ‘trivializing’ the large-scale bounties?

What if they offered a single guild bounty hunt worth 5 guild merits that is achievable by a small group and only offers 1 personal commendation?
You’re still looking at12 weeks for enough commendations for an earring and many more weeks to use the guild merits on upgrades. That wouldn’t trivialize larger group effort and is a compromise for smaller groups. It’s just a suggestion on my part.
There really does need to be incentives for group content in MMO’s, it’s always been that way. These games are always more fun when you get out and meet some new people in the gameworld. Honestly, we all share a common passion for the genre so we at least have that much in common. It’s not like everyone you run into is the anti-you out to ruin your experience.

The question still has not been answered. What does it take away from or “hurt” a large guild if small guilds can do SOMETHING too?

It takes away the MMO. It takes away the accomplishment of many people working together to accomplish a goal or task. If that isn’t something that appeals to you I’m not sure why you play the genre. One thing (guild missions) out of everything you can do in this game doesn’t conform to your small guild and you act as if your sky is falling.

That still does not answer the question. HOW does it take anything away? The large guild still exists. The large content can still exist. The only thing that is added, is a smaller group can do it too.

Again, how does that take anything away?

Is there even any reasoning with you?
I look back to my 6 years playing FFXI and remember nothing of value could be accomplished without large group effort. Threads like this and posters like you would be laughed out of the forums. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people think it’s legitimate to complain about everything they don’t like in a game as if it’s somehow possible to please millions of people in the same game. As if all content is amazing for every gamer out there.
It’s pretty simple really, either do the content or don’t. If there’s content you want to do and there’s prerequisites for the content (having enough people), then get enough people. The devs clearly wanted to add larger group content to the game. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. Go on playing like the content isn’t there and if you feel you need the earrings, save up your laurels and ectos.

“Threads like this one” meaning this thread…which was actually started by Anet….

Again, question not answered. What does a small guild being able to participate in these events take away from a large guild?

I might be assuming a bit here, but I would venture to say they want exclusivity. Basically “we want to keep it this way so others can’t access it to make ourselves feel special”. Aside from that I really cannot fathom any reason.

Shonie.5297:

stobie.2134:

Ok… so we won’t play FFXI. And we’re not playing FFXI. So that’s settled.

We’re not complaining about ‘everything in the game.’ I’ve posted in one topic before this (I wanted to see what others thought of Trahearne, & learned that my own reaction was mild in comparison) This subject worries me, not just because of guild missions, but because of the game’s direction. Given that GW2 didn’t present itself as the heir to WoW or FFXI, I’d rather have a say before they make a shift.

As for playing like the content isn’t there, no. I’m already taking great joy in helping guilds find their targets. If the fight is there, I’ll happily help. But I will also continue to ask for Guild Mission content that my small guild can do.

They aren’t “making a shift”… they’re simply adding some larger group content for guilds to optionally do. They also added a new sPvP map. Should I be disgusted that the focus of this game is on structured PvP? Or would that be ‘blowing it out of proportion’?

A better analogy would be if the new sPvP map they added required 30 or 50 people on each team and that the teams have an average glory rank of …I don’t know, lets say 100,000 (pulling a random number out of my kitten just think of a high number that the majority of sPvP players wouldn’t be near at all).

You can’t compare apples to oranges, so comparing adding an sPvP map to adding content that caters, or is solely meant for, large PvE guilds doesn’t make sense.

I would think that if they had added the map, described above, to sPvP you would hear just as much of an outcry since it would be breaking the theme that Anet had been making (small teams for sPvP, just like content that is doable by small PvE teams, and easy access to all content).

The sarcasm here is on overload. Tired and maybe shouldn’t be reading this thread anymore…lol I guess I am just hoping to see a red background on a name at one point..lol.

Yup , you want +5% Gold for Kills for 24 hours?
To bad.
You want 15% Reduced Waypoint Costs for 24 hours?
Don’t make me laugh

Oh, you want to simply be able to play the very first piece content (tier 1 bounties) in the game without having to wait 6 months from now? What do you think this is, Guild Wars? I am sorry you are mistaken. Guild Wars was an idea, this is the new reality, accept what is given to you and deal with the situation.

Join a “real” guild.

Getting really tired of reading this here and in game chat. Again I don’t just have a guild, we may call it a guild in game, but we are a community, we are friends, all 50 of us. Know what our guild quit rate is? 1 person every 2-3 months. We are not just a group of players looking for the next shiny. All we want is a chance is to do the content without having to farm one dungeon for 2 weeks, or months or throw all our hard earned gold away to make a little green arrow number rise higher.
Sorry , but speed clearing Citadel of Flames everyday 5 times a day, is not my idea of how I want to play the game. I don’t care if I made 100g a run and could buy a purple weapon in auctions within the day, still would not play the game that way.

Telling a good 90% of the posters here that they are not in a “real” guild, or just to join a large guild. To “Be quiet” and drink the kool aid with a smile on your face. Well not everyone is on a sugar high about the current situation Anet as made. We as a collective want the system to just be better and more thought out then it was first implemented.

I wasn’t aware that we never improved anything after is was first invented, guess I was wrong about those new light bulbs I bought, knew I shouldn’t of bought something with LED written on it, sounds fishy if you ask me.

I mean Fractals of the Mists was perfect when it came out, Anet never made improvements since November to Fracs, right? ;-) Nope didn’t think so they never updated and improved upon the original implementation of that area once.
Ohkay, now that we understand that Anet can not change anything once put into the game, we can all join the super guilds now, because that is the only way, we will ever be able to play the game. ;-)

nods heads

Edit:
I would also like to add, about the sPvP maps and PvP in general. Yeah sure they added that in. Know what the difference is? I can walk into PvP with 2 clicks of the mouse and play on that map or pvp match, within minutes of creating a new account by myself without the need of 300-500 people to earn enough influence to hopefully one day be able to unlock, a PvP game type, a week, months or years from now.

I can walk in World vs World as a level 1 and start playing the game.

I can go to high level areas of the game as a low level with my friends and they’ll help me get through content I have no business taking part in yet.

The game was open and no door was locked to us. Now apparently I have to buy keys to open up the chest for my guild. Anyone got a Black Lion Key? I have 500,000 Black Lion Chests and only 50 Keys.

(Metaphors, google it)

So, we just tried our hand at our very first Guild bounty, armed with the little knowledge we had from the wiki page.
As a small to medium sized guild, needless to say we came up short because of a number of reasons.

There is far too little information on the wiki page.
The time period is far too short, especially when you’re not sure of what you need to do, specifically not knowing where to look and who or what to look for and even more so when you don’t have enough people to look with.

Everything indicates this has been designed with the same idea as world events but afaik relatively few guilds have the man power to successfully complete these Guild bounty hunts.

EeZeE.8261:

So, we just tried our hand at our very first Guild bounty, armed with the little knowledge we had from the wiki page.
As a small to medium sized guild, needless to say we came up short because of a number of reasons.

There is far too little information on the wiki page.
The time period is far too short, especially when you’re not sure of what you need to do, specifically not knowing where to look and who or what to look for and even more so when you don’t have enough people to look with.

Everything indicates this has been designed with the same idea as world events but afaik relatively few guilds have the man power to successfully complete these Guild bounty hunts.

Yeah, is “funny” pick a mission, we are 10 people ( i remember a post of arena.net saying that 10 people are a good number ) and the time limit is a killer.

I mean you active the mission give you a bounty , we search many enemies knowinght the zone and the route, and if the enemy is in a big route, you spend allmost all the time, or 10 minutes only searching in a imaginary “line”, when you found it ( if you do ) at least you fight some 3-4 minuts and you lost no because you dont do the mission or know where the enemy is, only because you are not enough people or spend the most of time run for a imaginary line searching the boss.

Yeah super “funny” spent 10 minute running for a boss and when you at least could begin….MEEEEEC..TIME LIMIT.

I alredy have time limit in “search mission”, why put a limit timer in a kill mission ? And the funny thing is a developer post that are thinking in make more random the Bosses routes, seriusly ?

A 33 page post of people with negative feedback for the guild mission and how punish the small guilds, and arenanet is thinking in make it more difficult to them ? They play other game and read other forums or something?

Here’s the problem:
ArenaNet advertised that small guilds could do the content just as easily as large guilds.
ArenaNet said they were different from other MMOs.
If they said, right from the start, that this would be large-guild content only or said that they mis-advertised and apologized to small guilds, small guilds would be far more content.

Let me tell you about an experience I had yesterday. Someone practically begged me to recruit for them and stay in their guild so they could do guild missions. A large guild was recruiting and I asked for requirements. Their requirement was that you had to represent. So now, guilds are requiring representation due to the guild missions. Due to that it is killing multi-guilding, so although I thought their guild was cool, I couldn’t join. I won’t stop representing my guild because we just want an updated vault box! I would have Allianced my guild with theirs if possible. And ofc, instead of puzzles being first, they are dead last. But why is there an order in the first place?! This is not "playing it how you want to.

The recruitment process is getting ugly. People are getting rude. There are divisions and bitterness between small and large guilds. The community is splitting.

And hey, no one would say that Destiny’s Edge is not a real guild, would they? They’re only 5 members now!

They can scale events, why can’t they scale Guild Missions and their requirements?

Shonie.5297:

Is there even any reasoning with you?
I look back to my 6 years playing FFXI and remember nothing of value could be accomplished without large group effort. Threads like this and posters like you would be laughed out of the forums. Fast forward a few years and all of a sudden people think it’s legitimate to complain about everything they don’t like in a game as if it’s somehow possible to please millions of people in the same game. As if all content is amazing for every gamer out there.
It’s pretty simple really, either do the content or don’t. If there’s content you want to do and there’s prerequisites for the content (having enough people), then get enough people. The devs clearly wanted to add larger group content to the game. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t. Go on playing like the content isn’t there and if you feel you need the earrings, save up your laurels and ectos.

You have made one powerfully incorrect logical fail here. I highlighted it in bold for you.

“Everything of value had to be accomplished in a large group.”

Hey you know what? That’s fine… I love accomplishing things in large groups. I run to temples all the time… I coordinate with people in WvW… I participate in roleplay events, and large contests in-game… I throw parties… hold contests for new players in starter areas… attend dragon events… hang out and socialize at the maw… and other members of my “small guild” do the very same thing. We love large groups of people… I love wvw because I adore large scale content.

A large group achievement is not the same thing as a large guild. A guild, in my definition, is a group of players who have developed a fondness for each other over time or come together with like-goals.

The very first announcement of guild content said “well what if my guild is super small? You don’t have to worry about that because blah blah blah….”

This is GUILD content… don’t think of it as large group content… I’m fine with large group content… I’m fine with large group guild content… but this is GUILD content… and they told me a super small guild would have nothing to worry about.

Any rationalization you make beyond that is meaningless to me… I am not an unreasonable man. I can be rigid, and my loved ones can tell you that I often DO use words like duty and honor in regular conversation… but I am not unreasonable. I have a guild… I am a one guild man… I am loyal to my guild… I want guild content to enjoy with my guild, not someone else guild… and when Arenanet announced they would be bringing guild content, they told me that wasn’t a worry at all.

We are even fine helping other guilds do their content too… make it as zergy as you want… we will love it. But we are a unit… we were told our guild wouldn’t need to worry… and we shouldn’t have to.

There’s a difference between a large group and a guild… educate yourself.

bluewanders.5297:

There’s a difference between a large group and a guild… educate yourself.

That’s the point – for people that easily say “join a bigger guild” there’s no difference. They cannot understand things like guild cohesion, loyalty and sense of community. They don’t care.
As soon as their guild will get into some trouble, those are the first people that will leave, instead of trying to help.

Oh.. I forgot to mention to those of you who say you can earn Guild Missions in 1 Month if you have 5 people:
1) The people may not all be active
2) Our guild doesn’t want to bounty hunt. We want to do the puzzle. I don’t want to force people to donate to a cause they don’t want.
3) We want to level our characters, spend gold on other things for our characters, get their traits, get good armor for them, etc.
4) We want a vault box upgraded before we do anything else.
5) We have a life.

Also… You don’t have to do much AT ALL if you’re in a large guild, and you have to farm dungeons if you’re in a small guild that, on the absolute best day can get 5 people on at a time? Yeah right. We haven’t done all the dungeons because We don’t have the people to do them. That is extremely unfair. If anything, larger guilds should have to work harder than smaller guilds. Keep in mind, this is content, not just aesthetics. Aesthetics you’re supposed to pay for. Content is supposed to be free excepting expansions. In reality, a small guild would have to sell gems to get the gold to buy the influence. Which is so wrong when large guilds can just earn in-game currency and donate a little to go the cause or not even have to donate at all.

There are zillions of good solutions

But honestly the problem at the heart of everything, IMO is that it’s content. It’s not aesthetics, it’s not say a spiffier guild banquet, or some sort of party function, or a new dance, it’s content.

In my opinon as leader of a small guild of 13 people (mostly family and close friends) it looks like smaller guilds are being locked out of this new content just beacause of there size and where they spent guild influence. There has to be some way smaller guilds can be included in this conetent beyond having to join a larger guild to do these new misisons.

Now on to the main reason I came to the forums I am seeing a disturbing trend where larger guilds are offering tempory invites to there guild for a set amount of money (the one I have seen the most is 1 gold) just so you can play this new content. I find this trend a bit distrurbing.

Yakumo Fujii.9548:

Now on to the main reason I came to the forums I am seeing a disturbing trend where larger guilds are offering tempory invites to there guild for a set amount of money (the one I have seen the most is 1 gold) just so you can play this new content. I find this trend a bit distrurbing.

This was inevitable. ANet needs to add someone to their planning sessions who can intuit how players will behave in relation to new content. They seem to have a more optimistic view of player behavior than that behavior warrants. Now, maybe in this case, they anticipated the behavior and have no issues with players charging for content. They certainly allowed it in GW1, albeit with a different slant. However, they did not anticipate the backlash from small guilds.

This will get even more interesting when later mission types are unlocked.

I can imagine people complaining that only guild members can use turrets and so on during the guild siege type missions. Which is actually a good idea, but will eventually backfire too.

I’m actually happy now, we got a few new members who were kicked from one of the biggest guilds on our server because they did not represent. In the mean time there are some good guilds who just want more people to do their events so they don’t demand that you represent them 24/7, but those are very rare.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. The whole idea behind guild missions is to give guilds something to do.

Now, the entire game, with the exception of WvW, is based around 5 man content. 5 man guilds have a ton of stuff to do. It’s the bigger guilds, the guilds that have 20 guys…if they don’t WvW, that’s pretty much it. How many times did we want to do something as a guild and we end up with 12 guys. So two groups can two a dungeon and two guys are sitting alone, wishing they were with the rest of us. It’s a bad situation.

These missions probably require bigger groups, and so they’re probably aimed at bigger guilds. Which may not sit well with smaller guilds, but if the content requires 15 people and you have a 5 person guild, you’re excluded anyway.

And while I think Anet should provide content for smaller guilds, I do believe what they’re trying to do here is to provide what was missing. That is stuff for larger groups to do that isn’t WvW.

Excuse me how elitist you come across “Big Guilds” … so you feel that Small Guilds will not run out of content??? When we have done everything, and we have run WvW as well, JUST LIKE YOU … and we have completed the map on 5+ characters … and we end up often having 2-3 people sitting out because the groups are 5 man only … We ALSO want to partake of the NEW content, just like you. Lord that is so upsetting that people go “just live with nothing because you are a small guild”.

Myste.3291:

Excuse me how elitist you come across “Big Guilds” … so you feel that Small Guilds will not run out of content??? When we have done everything, and we have run WvW as well, JUST LIKE YOU … and we have completed the map on 5+ characters … and we end up often having 2-3 people sitting out because the groups are 5 man only … We ALSO want to partake of the NEW content, just like you. Lord that is so upsetting that people go “just live with nothing because you are a small guild”.

You know, you should really read the rest of his posts. And avoid just replying before it sinks in what he said. He was saying that before this update there wasn’t anything earmarked for “larger guilds” which could field more people than one five-person party. “There’s nothing for us to do as a guild!”

And it was a complaint which was valid. The solution works. Now there is something for them to do as a larger unit.

Now the problem comes in with implementation and how smaller guilds are having a rough time to reach the content, or in some cases do it. This is where the problem is showing up and what people are talking about. The idea, and it’s been said a lot, wasn’t a bad one. The implementation is where it became messy.

Please, people, stop trying to push some of the people arguing onto one side or the other. A couple of us just want a discussion instead of a fight.

OK, kitten this I’ve been trying to not burst about this crap, but now that I’ve tried it…

We got the mission we had like 30 ppl on in scouting every map map and we killed the first one. Guess what we discovered there were 2 other guilds camping the 2nd NPC and just killed it as we got there. More so the people who killed the first target got rewards but the other group got nothing. Very funny ANet, very funny. Think about what you are doing next time. This content is pointless as it is !

If another guild kills your bounty you should at least RESET the timer for all other guilds on the same bounty. And why the kitten do you split the guild by giving individual bounties on only 1 target ?

Thank you for the awesome content!

There isn’t even a friendly guild to guild environment anymore. Everyone want a piece of the pie and noone wants anyone else to get it. So much fun!

Yakumo Fujii.9548:

Now on to the main reason I came to the forums I am seeing a disturbing trend where larger guilds are offering tempory invites to there guild for a set amount of money (the one I have seen the most is 1 gold) just so you can play this new content. I find this trend a bit distrurbing.

We did say that was coming… it won’t end… it will only get worse. As long as you give a segment of the population exclusive access to something they will abuse the rest of the population and extort them as “gatekeepers”…

Nothing new to see here… WoW Wars 2…

Wayfinder.8452:

OK, kitten this I’ve been trying to not burst about this crap, but now that I’ve tried it…

We got the mission we had like 30 ppl on in scouting the map, guess what we discovered there were 2 other guild camping the NPC and just killed it as we got there. Very funny ANet, very funny. Think about what you are doing next time. This content is pointless as it is !

If another guild kills your bounty you should at least RESET the timer for all other guilds on the same bounty.

Thank you for the awesome content!

There isn’t even a friendly guild to guild environment anymore. Everyone want a piece of the pie and noone wants anyone else to get it. So much fun!

Well did you at least get the merits?

Wayfinder.8452:

There isn’t even a friendly guild to guild environment anymore. Everyone want a piece of the pie and noone wants anyone else to get it. So much fun!

Which goes against their mechanics of players helping other players. Hope you raised a support ticket.

jazzllanna.1278:

Wayfinder.8452:

OK, kitten this I’ve been trying to not burst about this crap, but now that I’ve tried it…

We got the mission we had like 30 ppl on in scouting the map, guess what we discovered there were 2 other guild camping the NPC and just killed it as we got there. Very funny ANet, very funny. Think about what you are doing next time. This content is pointless as it is !

If another guild kills your bounty you should at least RESET the timer for all other guilds on the same bounty.

Thank you for the awesome content!

There isn’t even a friendly guild to guild environment anymore. Everyone want a piece of the pie and noone wants anyone else to get it. So much fun!

Well did you at least get the merits?

No.

Let me explain how Bounties work.

X Targets, X Maps.
Anyone who contributes to killing one target gets Commendations and 2 rares (weekly).
If another guild kills any of your targets your guild has to wait for the target to re-spawn and find him (again).
If another guild kills any of your targets you get no credit for the kill and the guild gets no Merits.

It’s not even beneficial at an individual reward level to hunt both targets. These Bounty missions should be renamed to Guild Gambling, ’cause this is what they are !

Wayfinder.8452:

OK, kitten this I’ve been trying to not burst about this crap, but now that I’ve tried it…

We got the mission we had like 30 ppl on in scouting the map, guess what we discovered there were 2 other guild camping the NPC and just killed it as we got there. Very funny ANet, very funny. Think about what you are doing next time. This content is pointless as it is !

If another guild kills your bounty you should at least RESET the timer for all other guilds on the same bounty.

Thank you for the awesome content!

There isn’t even a friendly guild to guild environment anymore. Everyone want a piece of the pie and noone wants anyone else to get it. So much fun!

Wait.

So you activated the bounty and some other guild wiped it out before you got there and you just…got no credit or anything else and lost the mission you had running?

If so that is a brilliant setup for the whole thing. I thought the days of camping NPC spawns was over…

So you lost your influence or you just have to wait for respawn?. And the guild that killed them got nothing.. they did it just to mess with you or did they have it started as well just you all are going after the same target? . sorry just really interested in what happened here and a bit confused.

Pockets.3201:

Wait.

So you activated the bounty and some other guild wiped it out before you got there and you just…got no credit or anything else and lost the mission you had running?

If so that is a brilliant setup for the whole thing. I thought the days of camping NPC spawns was over…

We were looking for the 2nd target for a few minutes and another guild announced that they killed it. We got no credit, influence and time wasted. People were asking for help in map chat, we got none.

jazzllanna.1278:

So you lost your influence or you just have to wait for respawn?. And the guild that killed them got nothing.. they did it just to mess with you or did they have it started as well just you all are going after the same target? . sorry just really interested in what happened here and a bit confused.

I don’t really know how fast the NPC will respawn, but this is of no importance given that our time was wasted looking for it at that point. Further more the individual rewards (the ones you can use for earrings and other kitten) is give only to members who contribute to killing a target its not a guild bonus, so half the guild was kittened because we split up in squads.

About camping… I stayed on the map for a bit afterwards I was nervous and wanted to at least find the target again. 10 minutes later or so I found it, at mostly the same spot as the guild before, and guess what it was camped by another guild (only 1 member, but they were camping different spots just sitting there). I am sure spawn points are random, but what happened is just even more annoying.

Wayfinder.8452:

…

There isn’t even a friendly guild to guild environment anymore. Everyone want a piece of the pie and noone wants anyone else to get it. So much fun!

Which I refuse to give into, I will not let Anet provide an excuse and a tool, to destroy 6 months of GW2 and Janthir (IoJ) community to have the players descend into, us against them.

Example, yesterday a player in Lion’s Arch was looking for a guild The Guardians [TG] and asked, “If anyone was online from The Guardians?”
Instead of trying to recruit the person into my ranks for the sake of gaining more influence, like so many want now. I directed the person to http://isleofjanthir.net/ and told them they had a guild introduction post they could use to get in contact with them.
You know what happened? Not a minute later an officer from [TG] asked what was going on in chat, as they mapped in during the end of the conversation in map chat.
Me and the officer had a conversation in whisper, me telling them of the person who wished to join their guild.

Why I am telling this story? Well only Anet can change the world structured around us, to help support making the world they made a good place to be or worse. It is up us (players, people) to maintain an environment, where we make it a better world then was intended.

Wayfinder.8452:

Pockets.3201:

Wait.

So you activated the bounty and some other guild wiped it out before you got there and you just…got no credit or anything else and lost the mission you had running?

If so that is a brilliant setup for the whole thing. I thought the days of camping NPC spawns was over…

We were looking for the 2nd target for a few minutes and another guild announced that they killed it. We got no credit, influence and time wasted. People were asking for help in map chat, we got none.

jazzllanna.1278:

So you lost your influence or you just have to wait for respawn?. And the guild that killed them got nothing.. they did it just to mess with you or did they have it started as well just you all are going after the same target? . sorry just really interested in what happened here and a bit confused.

I don’t really know how fast the NPC will respawn, but this is of no importance given that our time was wasted looking for it at that point. Further more the individual rewards (the ones you can use for earrings and other kitten) is give only to members who contribute to killing a target its not a guild bonus, so half the guild was kittened because we split up in squads.

About camping… I stayed on the map for a bit afterwards I was nervous and wanted to at least find the target again. 10 minutes later or so I found it, at mostly the same spot as the guild before, and guess what it was camped by another guild (only 1 member, but they were camping different spots just sitting there). I am sure spawn points are random, but what happened is just even more annoying.

Wow…just…what do you say to that? This is awful. Beyond that words fail me. I’m not sure how ANet could have screwed this up worse. What the heck were they thinking?

ArenaNet – you guys are the absolute masters at screwing up brilliant ideas…sigh…

Leohan.1096:

Wayfinder.8452:

…

…

Why I am telling this story? Well only Anet can change the world structured around us, to help support making the world they made a good place to be or worse. It is up us (players, people) to maintain an environment, where we make it a better world then was intended.

I was the same up until now. From now on any thought of being neutral or supportive is hopelessly gone.

I’ve been a GW geek for years, but I think this was the last straw for me. Don’t get me wrong I like the game and will play it more. I’m just annoyed with the state of patches they release and the utter lack of communication with the community and no selective responses to mostly random threads is no real communication.

Anyway enough of that.

Just did our first guild missions with my guild over on gandara, and i must say it can do with improvements.

We had a bit over 30 people participating, so we started off with a Tier 1 bunty, organised people into parties coordinated by officers on mumble. All good right?
We got brisbain and maelstrom as our first bunty zones, great. Lets roll, groups divided into the respective zones and started searching.

I was lucky in maelstrom and came across half baked, at 30%hp and being hammered by two other guilds… By the end, myself and 4 more people of the 3 group team we had in maelstrom actualy made it there in time to get any kind of contribution. Upon the boss dying, the mission status in the guild panel was marked as cleared.
Same thing with the brisbain boss, we had to compete with other guilds for completion of what we had initialy thought of as OUR mission.

Fast forward and i rush a new T1 bunty so the people who didnt get completion will get a chance. We get sent to Lornars and diessa. Same story with the boss in lornars, already being hammered by another guild, completion for a few of the people who made it there in time. The second boss in diessa we got lucky with, and it was green upon discovery, so we managed to get all of our people there.

The fight lasted 6 seconds.
6 seconds.
We killed him so fast, I only pulled off one hundred blades combo.

We did try a T2 mission, which was more or less the same story, a rush against other guilds in terms of finding the bosses and landing a hit so we would get guild merits from it. This was not how me or any of my guildmates had figured the missions to be like, a stressing fight not against time or boss difficulty but against competing guild ahed of us simply by being a minute ahead of us on the same mission. As an event fort he entire guild, our members actualy being able to get there in time to get contribution proved to cause a lot of frustration.

Okay forgive me if this has already been asked but, What if people in my guild are from different worlds. Do we all need to unlock missions for each world or will they get merits and personal rewards for being in the guild and taking part in missions from my world?

bluewanders.5297:

It has been stated by a dev that the introduction of guild content into the game is gated at Art of War tier 5.

Why is this a problem for small guilds?

Because small guilds have absolutely no business claiming wvw keeps and camps. Because it’s a waste of influence for small guilds to invest in this tree… because many small guilds don’t wvw.

All or at least most guilds will invest in trees like architecture and economy. Because that’s where the guild storage and the most desirable guild bonuses reside.

This isn’t a question of whether small guilds can eventually get the bonuses… of course we can… we can grind out gold and influence to get them… and then wait the 16 days for AoW to build. This is a question of murdering small guilds so that only large guilds remain.

We all know that gamers flock to new content like seagulls to a trashcan. I’ve already received 1 pm in game letting me know that when the patch drops they will be joining and repping a mega guild so they can experience the new content.

This is about small guilds being able to maintain numbers and still have content to do together. Placing the first ever guild content to be introduced into the game in a tree that most small guilds haven’t invested in, and will require time to do so effectively makes them less competitive and attractive for recruitment and repping.

This isn’t about incentive for large guilds to be large… this is about first ever content being gated for large and established guilds only. Your initial rollout should be inclusive for all guilds no matter the size… so that we don’t bleed membership to mega guilds while we struggle to catch up (we already bleed membership to mega guilds because sometimes we cant afford to keep guild bonuses up without spending gold). Tier 2 or 3 in architecture or economy would have been fine. AoW is a useless tree to many small guilds. Later patches could introduce content that only large guilds can afford. This way… smalls guilds have new content they can experience together soon… and so can large guilds…

And yes… small guilds want to experience the new content together and see what the new rewards are… we don’t want to join as spectators to someone elses event, get jack kitten for rewards and have it be old news by the time we get a chance to do it with our own influence.

Thank you for saying what many of us who do not wish to become a number in a huge faceless corporation feel. Small Guilds engender fellowship, friendship, and above all, a community that works together. A community that approached other small guilds which are all going to die now, to do things together. This has destroyed that with the Mega-Guilds all out hunting the same target with the attitude of “Gotta get it before anyone else, even if I don’t need it.” They get their weekly target, then farm it and destroy it so others cannot get it to try to progress too …. Friendly competition … I think not. It will engender the spite and selfishness that led people to flee from elitist games to this, a game where all could be equal.

New guilds won’t stand a chance of starting up, not with the Big Guilds trying to get even bigger to counter what the other big guild did to them last week … and offering places for gold ingame. …

Why ANet? Why? A guild of 1 person is not a guild, … A guild of 6 upwards can be considered one. And Guild membership should be counted by Different Accounts, not 1 player with many characters. And, yes, we are a small guild, only 5-9 of us on most of the time. What chance do we have of getting our merits when the huge guilds are ensuring that all the mobs are dead? Why should we be forced into a huge faceless guild where its made up of small cliques of people who generally hate each other anyway.

I have one more question – When the Mission starts, are you supposed to run blind through 15 different zones, to find where your mob is … or is it supposed to say “Your NPC is somewhere in whichever place” ?

We did our first one today … and threw away the Influence, thank you ANet as it did not give us a destination, or send us anywhere, we had to run about blindly trying desperately to find an NPC. We started with 10 minutes NOT 15 minutes … and we eventually found the NPC at the fourth place with 1 minute to spare. Needless to say, 6 of us could not do it in that time.

Myste.3291:

Thank you for saying what many of us who do not wish to become a number in a huge faceless corporation feel. Small Guilds engender fellowship, friendship, and above all, a community that works together. A community that approached other small guilds which are all going to die now, to do things together.

I’m going to stop you right here for a bit, and point out a small problem. And it’s a small one because it’s something you overlooked.

Small guilds/companies =/= “better” than large guilds/companies.

Yes, they can engender fellowship, friendship, and community. They can also engender exceedingly cutthroat behavior and competitiveness. It really does depend on the people running the guild/company and how the members/employees take their cues from what they say/do.

I’ve been in small companies. Like, basically two families who were working together. I’ve been in large companies, like “across the country, our parent company owns pretty much half the restaurants people stop in within a certain price range”. I can tell you at least once I felt more like a valued member of a team at the large company and much more like a wage-slave at the smaller one.

Myste.3291:

I have one more question – When the Mission starts, are you supposed to run blind through 15 different zones, to find where your mob is … or is it supposed to say “Your NPC is somewhere in whichever place” ?

From looking it up on Dulfy’s site?

You get a riddle about where your quarry was last seen or what they do. Such as a pirate “seen hiding amongst ale casks” which translates to “he’s in a barrel somewhere in a region with pirates”. Another specifically calls out “he’s with the karka” and there’s NO mistaking where you can find him then.

Me and my guild did 3 bounty missions today and we failed 2. We had 40 people active and working. Following problems:
- Not finding an NPC for 10 minutes…. (Gendarran Fields pirate didn’t show)
- Boss taking over 10 minutes to kill (Frostgorge)
- Boss being killed in seconds (Diessa Plateau): no reward for all players

Suggestions:
→ I think every guild member active in the area where you are killing the boss should get a reward, cause sometimes by the time you arrive they’ve died.
→ Make the waypoint cost while doing Bounty zero.
→ Make hints that indicate in what direction the bounty is moving. People on map aren’t helping at all.
→ Make duration longer.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yakumo Fujii.9548:

Now on to the main reason I came to the forums I am seeing a disturbing trend where larger guilds are offering tempory invites to there guild for a set amount of money (the one I have seen the most is 1 gold) just so you can play this new content. I find this trend a bit distrurbing.

This was inevitable. ANet needs to add someone to their planning sessions who can intuit how players will behave in relation to new content. They seem to have a more optimistic view of player behavior than that behavior warrants. Now, maybe in this case, they anticipated the behavior and have no issues with players charging for content. They certainly allowed it in GW1, albeit with a different slant. However, they did not anticipate the backlash from small guilds.

I agree.

This was mentioned back on page 3, and in other threads. Focus Team, Red Team and smart marketing.

1) Focus team testing should occur in the design process (investigation phase – concept phase) before the decision is made to go ahead and invest in the technical design. This is the “cheap” part of the design process – before the developers and artists do the hard work.

Focus teams provide feedback on how players will feel about the content – reactions, etcetera. Very much like the feedback / reactions found in this thread. Note: A social scientist or a pattern-thinking marketing employee who studies social trends/community impact could have also anticipated this thread, the wedge in the community and a lot of the new behaviors seen in game (especially those fostered by other games.)

2) Red Team: experienced,“smart” people put themselves into the role of griefer and exploiter and try to “break” the system/ new content being proposed. The questions they ask are: what could a griefer do to other players using this content, how could this play out in a negative way, how would an exploiter use this new content to the detriment of other players, the community as a whole, guild/group structures, etcetera.

This concept-QA (try to break ideas) should also occur in the early “cheap” stage of design before commiting manpower to the actual design implementation.

These are two powerful pre-investment tools used in High Tech Industry (includes software design) to avoid costly marketing / production errors.

I am sure that ANet has internalized a lot of the feedback in this thread, and specifically a lot of constructive ideas here (including: Matipzieu KyA’s 4-page post on page 14.)

I am not sure of the outcome. I am hoping the damage to the community is recoverable. And I will be watching further trends with content (already researching other games.. no appealing ones on the market atm for my guild…and I would MUCH rather remain with GW2). New content usually comes in cycles and ANet said they had a lot that did not make it in at release, and they will react to perceived changes in the playerbase as needed (basic business).

This content was needed. Just poorly implemented and marketed.

And yes, IndigoSundown, a lot of that could have been avoided.

Wayfinder.8452:

Leohan.1096:

Wayfinder.8452:

…

…

Why I am telling this story? Well only Anet can change the world structured around us, to help support making the world they made a good place to be or worse. It is up us (players, people) to maintain an environment, where we make it a better world then was intended.

I was the same up until now. From now on any thought of being neutral or supportive is hopelessly gone.

I’ve been a GW geek for years, but I think this was the last straw for me. Don’t get me wrong I like the game and will play it more. I’m just annoyed with the state of patches they release and the utter lack of communication with the community and no selective responses to mostly random threads is no real communication.

Anyway enough of that.

THIS! A thousand times THIS! They are able to respond to threads with what…10 posts? But never seem to care about threads with almost 1700 posts, which miiiiight indicate that the community cares about this particular topic. But they don’t seem to care about the community.
Last time Chris Whiteside mentioned in an interview that it’s so lovely to work with the community and I couldn’t resist but laugh.

Does this mean more than one guild can go after the same bounty? I thought the guild that activated it was the only one that could start the fight?

That can’t be. I’ve seen the little starred guys around, & you can’t interact with them (other than to say ‘hi’) How could one guild take another’s target?

Oh, what could possibly go wrong?

I have been trying to speculate why there hasn’t been very much response to this thread.

I am sure a lot of time was invested in this content as well as the future direction of the whole guild event project. It probably isn’t easy to modify that much content without doing what has been suggested many times here, thoroughly testing it.

We have given them a lot of great suggestions to consider.

I myself have been guilty on this very thread of throwing the dev’s words back in their face when it didn’t match up to what I had envisioned.

If I were a developer, I would be very sure of the next comments that were delivered in regards to this thread.

I don’t think they can/will ignore the issue. But they will have to be very careful how they make changes.

I guess they could say something innocuous like “We do hear you and we are working on a suitable modification.”

I am tired of waving my pitchfork, gonna go find a frosty mug. Life is too short.

Sowin.5187:

I have been trying to speculate why there hasn’t been very much response to this thread.

The patch hit more than halfway through the workday on Tuesday. With the build-up time for missions, it took days for a lot of guilds to get to where they could do the content. Once enough people are doing the content, metrics need to be collected and examined to see what is actually happening. Once analysis is underway … oh, look, the weekend — which hasn’t ended.

They also had other issues to troubleshoot with the patch. People unable to log in at all is going to get a higher priority than unhappiness, not matter how widespread. Also, with such widespread unhappiness, the response is going to have to be discussed, and then spun through PR. I don’t expect any kind of a response until middle of the coming week at the earliest.

stobie.2134:

Does this mean more than one guild can go after the same bounty? I thought the guild that activated it was the only one that could start the fight?

That can’t be. I’ve seen the little starred guys around, & you can’t interact with them (other than to say ‘hi’) How could one guild take another’s target?

Oh, what could possibly go wrong?

Guild targets are random, MANY guilds can have the same target. The game cannot be modified to suite the needs of countless guilds so there are no guild exclusive targets.

If you are unlucky enough to have other guilds on your target it becomes rock paper scissors.

IndigoSundown.5419:

They also had other issues to troubleshoot with the patch. People unable to log in at all is going to get a higher priority than unhappiness, not matter how widespread. Also, with such widespread unhappiness, the response is going to have to be discussed, and then spun through PR. I don’t expect any kind of a response until middle of the coming week at the earliest.

So very true.