Guild Wars 2

Jski.6180:

Well why be in a big guild or in a guild at all then? The idea was to reward ppl for being in active guilds not guild that are so small that they have problems making one pt (there is a line that needs to be made the difference between a guild and a pt) or guild that only show up at the end of the month for a week and then everyone goes away waiting for the next update.

First of all, for a lot of people who are in small guilds, it’s a group of friends, often across multiple games. There are many multiplayer games that are not guild focused; a guild is just a convenience for what these people already do as a group. Many people do prefer to be in a small personable group of friends than in a vast guild run by people they don’t even know.

Secondly, a lot of people in small guilds would much rather play the game with friends than spend time running a guild.

If you like challenges, start up a new guild based only on people you meet in the game and tell us how far you get in a month. Tell us how soon you’ll accumulate the influence you need to start a guild mission.

Really it is not whining it is hoping they see the flaw here. Seriously even if you decide “Ok my guild cannot do guild missions I will just help other guilds out.”

You still cannot purchase the new rewards! The new vendor requires commendations from guild missions and gold. You only get commendations from being in the guild that starts the event. I was under the impression if you helped the guild complete the mission you got commendations.

How is a guild that is not large enough to complete guild missions suppose to pull from the world and get others if they do not get rewards for the event to make it worth their time? You as of right now cannot get commendations for the new items unless you are in a large guild.

Even if you are in a large guild if you are not on when the event goes there is no way for you to get the commendations even if another guild launches the event and you participate. So even the people in large guilds should be concerned because if your guild leader has a different schedule for you— you will not get commendations either.

@Laughing Crow:
I think you just identified a new potential problem related to this content update:

What incentive do players have to start a new guild? And what incentive do players have to join a newly-founded guild?
Playing with real-life friends is the only consideration to even start a new guild now, but unfortunately doing so precludes you from joining a larger guild with guild mission content unlocked.
(Why? Because larger guilds do not like it if their members do not represent, and because representing guild A closes your access to guild B’s guild chat.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sowin.5187:

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Well, if there are 17+ pages of “whiners” about the same exact thing . . . maybe there IS a problem.

If all it takes to declare a problem is a 17+ page thread, we could be in real trouble. “I don’t like X” “go make a post on the forum, we’ll all chime in and once it hits page 18 they’ll have to change it”.

I agree, this thread has what 800 posts? maybe 600 unique posters (prob much less). sorry, but this is a tiny fraction of the player base and even of the forum users.

His solution (and the obvious solution that everyone jumps to) is that you should scale the influence requirements (or gains) to the size of the guild. This of course jumps up with a host of problems because, as he says, people will try to get maximum gain for minimal effort.
But let’s pretend that we found a good scaling system so that guilds are more or less equal. All guild sizes will take roughly the same amount of time to unlock the first stage of content. Why even have a scaling system at all then? How is this different than a timer that counts down 72 hours until you can get access to the content? What’s more, why is there even a timer to begin with? In what way does this improve the experience? I certainly don’t feel satisfied or proud of any accomplishment that is so trivial as waiting for something to unlock on it’s own. Are you trying to trick people into thinking they had something to do with it?

Every time I see a large problem in MMOs it tends to look the same when you step back and look at it from this distance.

1) What people are asking for: Equal time to unlock content
2) This is no different than: Setting a timer when the guild is created and unlocking things at set times
3) This is supposed to make people feel invested? Proud? Satisfied?

hey, arenanet — specifically colin:

remember the legendary issue? let me encapsulate the perts of that for you:

you guys created weapons you thought would be long-lasting projects for folk to work toward, after they’d done “everything else.” you then found out that many folk wanted the legendaries, and wanted them NAOW, and so sank buku gems into the system to purchase everything required to create these legendary weapons.

shock! chagrin! what was it, within just a couple of weeks, folk were running around with legendary weapons? i believe it was on one of your live interviews that you stated something along the lines of being amazed at how quickly these weapons were obtained, and how that was counter to your original intent.

why do i bring this up? colin, anet, you guys are brilliant and wonderful dreamers. you’ve created a game that you wish to be played a certain way — thinking, “if people play this way, they’ll see that our idea is a good one! they’ll be happy!”

you’re not looking at the real-world facts, though. as stated in that wonderful post about four pages back, you are not taking into consideration how determined folk are to have things, and have them NAOW. you’ve come to realize there’s a large market out there that wants “raids” and wants “progression” and, even though it violates your manifesto, which drew so many of us in, you’re attempting to provide it, but within your dream.

please take a step back. please reckon with human reality, and the instant-gratitude crowd that will treat these guild missions as the legendaries were treated — will work to ensure they do it NAOW and reap all benefits from it NAOW while those of us who do not wish to pug guilds will be standing back, waving, and building resentment toward you for treating us as though we’re second-rate because we don’t choose to be in a three-digit-membership guild.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/17#post1526549 is an excellent solution.

Medazolam.3058:

I agree, this thread has what 800 posts? maybe 600 unique posters (prob much less). sorry, but this is a tiny fraction of the player base and even of the forum users.

It’s not even that . . . it’s that it would be really easy to mold the game into something just by starting a post and getting enough people posting in it. For example? “Class X is useless and should just be removed”. 18 pages in two days with people declaring Class X is fine and people just haven’t figured out how to use the skills, people who are in the middle saying they don’t play it but never had an issue, and the diehard true believers who want to inflict the change.

And if all a post needs to do is reach 17+ pages to be declared an issue which needs to be changed, then there would be all sorts of things fighting to get posted up here, and maybe even dueling topics. “Temple Karma exotics are too expensive” vs “Temple Karma exotics are not expensive enough”. Not to mention topics which would be obviously out to unbalance the game just for the giggles.

Then why have forums at all?
If community feedback means nothing because the contributors account for a minority, why even bother?

Medazolam.3058:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sowin.5187:

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Well, if there are 17+ pages of “whiners” about the same exact thing . . . maybe there IS a problem.

If all it takes to declare a problem is a 17+ page thread, we could be in real trouble. “I don’t like X” “go make a post on the forum, we’ll all chime in and once it hits page 18 they’ll have to change it”.

I agree, this thread has what 800 posts? maybe 600 unique posters (prob much less). sorry, but this is a tiny fraction of the player base and even of the forum users.

If I were in the market for a new widget and researched it online. After reading the feedback from existing customers, 17+ pages and 600+ negative comments would not entice me to purchase that product.

Mungrul.9358:

Then why have forums at all?
If community feedback means nothing because the contributors account for a minority, why even bother?

Dear neighbor, I ask myself that question every time I poke my head into an official or unofficial fan forum. The trouble isn’t that it means “nothing” the trouble is separating the people who have complaints with some backbone to them against the people who just want things easier and more immediately. Or are just trolling out of boredom and stopped playing the game a long time ago.

Mungrul.9358:

Then why have forums at all?
If community feedback means nothing because the contributors account for a minority, why even bother?

of course they listen to feedback and make changes (see the WvW consumable thread, direct feedback and implemention of player suggestions).

so heres how i see it. Anet have pretty much just said small social friendship guilds will be punished by not having access or very little access to the new guild mission stuff. not only that but they make it very hard to even start up and getting going. This content should have been accessable from the get go and then it should have been ranked. Me and my fellow guildies were really looking forward to these guild missions but now its just been a big let down.

Also with the skills why not just scrap the whole semi customizable builds and go the way of gw1 with fully customizable builds, i know you want to be differant anet but come on theres a limit. i liked having my own unique build not something i have to use. all i really want to know and fully understand is why have you gone this way with skills, what was wrong with the gw1 method?

Sowin.5187:

Medazolam.3058:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sowin.5187:

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Well, if there are 17+ pages of “whiners” about the same exact thing . . . maybe there IS a problem.

If all it takes to declare a problem is a 17+ page thread, we could be in real trouble. “I don’t like X” “go make a post on the forum, we’ll all chime in and once it hits page 18 they’ll have to change it”.

I agree, this thread has what 800 posts? maybe 600 unique posters (prob much less). sorry, but this is a tiny fraction of the player base and even of the forum users.

If I were in the market for a new widget and researched it online. After reading the feedback from existing customers, 17+ pages and 600+ negative comments would not entice me to purchase that product.

after reading one thread, on a forum with thousands of threads, well i guess you are the discerning customer.

I have further thought out my above post on what this update will mean for future guilds, and provided some more arguments.

Because current large guilds will have early access to guild mission contents,
(1) players no longer have an incentive to start and upgrade new guilds, unless the guild does not have the ambition to ever unlock guild missions, and
(2) players looking for a guild (not consisting of their close personal friends) no longer have an incentive to become a member of a newly started guild.

As a result, once the current set of large guilds have unlocked all guild missions, no new large guilds are likely to emerge, ever. Only small guilds that manage to stick together and manage to slowly unlock ALL guild missions (after maybe a year), AND that are willing to then open their doors to new players, may experience a sudden, explosive growth after a grinding for influence for close to a year. This is an unlikely scenario, and speaks to the determination of such individuals, seeing that they could just have joined a large guild instead.

Therefore, very few new guild will be founded in the future, and those that do will likely never grow beyond their founding members.

Sowin.5187:

Medazolam.3058:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sowin.5187:

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Well, if there are 17+ pages of “whiners” about the same exact thing . . . maybe there IS a problem.

If all it takes to declare a problem is a 17+ page thread, we could be in real trouble. “I don’t like X” “go make a post on the forum, we’ll all chime in and once it hits page 18 they’ll have to change it”.

I agree, this thread has what 800 posts? maybe 600 unique posters (prob much less). sorry, but this is a tiny fraction of the player base and even of the forum users.

If I were in the market for a new widget and researched it online. After reading the feedback from existing customers, 17+ pages and 600+ negative comments would not entice me to purchase that product.

This could be why nobody would purchase an iPad, or a Windows machine, or a Mac, an XB360 . . . a Wii, well, just about anything really. There’s a real difficulty to shopping, seeing that there’s an overwhelmingly bad reaction on a forum, and determining not to buy it.

Seriously. Nobody would ever buy anything.

What I do not understand, is why is there an large influence/upgrade cost on getting the missions in the first place? To me it makes sense that lower tiers guild missions should be in the lower tiers of the guild trees, so you need less to get started, then as you go up in mission ranks you have to buy up in guild ranks.

Instead its an all or nothing approach, which favors large guilds of which the game has no supporting content other than this and zerging wvw.

I’ve just extrapolated further along the “Big Guild Consolidation” line of thinking.
What’s to stop these big guilds from throwing their weight around once they’ve absorbed all of the smaller guilds?
Things could get positively abusive, especially as the power in guilds is not decided democratically but is rather in the hands of the guild founders.
These super-guilds could enforce nasty rules, insisting on guild taxes and the like, and no-one wanting access to guild content could fight back against it. If they leave to form their own guilds, they’re going to be up against guilds that can offer instant access to guild content, while they have to start from scratch again, yet again making it harder to recruit new members.
Seriously, has no-one at ArenaNet read Catch 22?

I agree to some missions requiring larger guilds. But some missions shouldn’t. In my honest opinion, it should favor larger guilds than smaller but not in everything. Because I don’t think a guild of 4-5 people would be hired to protect from an invasion. Bounty—sure.

@Tobias Trueflight:
I invite you to read the following post (earlier in this thread), because it sums up people’s concerns very well.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

The author also argues that the situation is FINE and EXCELLENT for the larger guilds. If you are a member of such a guild (or care nothing for guild content at all), then you indeed have nothing to complain about.
However, people who are NOT a member of a large guild and DO care about guild content, are put in a difficult place, as pressure is put on them (and ONLY on them) to choose between new guild content, and playing with their friends. How large this group is, I dare not say, but I also dare not regard this group as insignificantly small.

If you must disagree with some of the concerns brought forward in this thread, please address the arguments people bring to bear. If any of those arguments do not relate to you or how you play the game yourself (or the people you play with), then please just admit that you are not in a position to comment on it, and leave it at that.

A good fix for this would be some kind of alliance implementation. If you have an alliance chat, you won’t need to represent a certain guild to chat with your friends.

Also, perhaps that influence can be earned together, but the guild with the unlock or most members doing any mission will earn his guild the most influence points.

SMH

Also I think everyone is overreacting. Influence can be bought with gold. Yes it’s more expensive on the individual members of the guild but let’s face it, you can’t expect to have a lot of money if you have a small guild unless they are exceptional in making money. Same with influence. Small guilds won’t die off, you will just have access to it later. It’s not going to kill you to just have access to it after the larger guilds do. And you can always recruit, invite friends, and make money ya kno.

Edit: And to add, I’m in a guild of 10 active members, and we are stoked to do it when we can.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

@Tobias Trueflight:
I invite you to read the following post (earlier in this thread), because it sums up people’s concerns very well.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

The author also argues that the situation is FINE and EXCELLENT for the larger guilds. If you are a member of such a guild (or care nothing for guild content at all), then you indeed have nothing to complain about.
However, people who are NOT a member of a large guild and DO care about guild content, are put in a difficult place, as pressure is put on them (and ONLY on them) to choose between new guild content, and playing with their friends. How large this group is, I dare not say, but I also dare not regard this group as insignificantly small.

If you must disagree with some of the concerns brought forward in this thread, please address the arguments people bring to bear. If any of those arguments do not relate to you or how you play the game yourself (or the people you play with), then please just admit that you are not in a position to comment on it, and leave it at that.

Oh no, no, I’m not qualified to discuss the heart of the matter in any logical fashion. A half-week of discussing this matter taught me that. Why?

1. The small guild I’m part of is actively figuring out what they need to do to participate rather than saying it’s impossible. We’re not disbanding to go to a larger guild or trying to absorb other guilds into ourselves. We’re willing to work to make an attempt before we actually say it’s impossible to do.

2. I’ve gone back on statements made in the past and tried to change my opinion. This cannot be allowed.

@Mungrul:
Regarding “Large Guild Power Abuse”, I believe this would be limited, unless players really want to punish themselves to EXPERIENCE the guild content.

Because the ascended accessory rewards are also sold by the laurel vendors. They cost 50 ectoplasm apiece in addition to the laurel cost, but they ARE available to those who do not play guild missions.

Any power abuse by large guilds could not exceed a total (lifetime) value of 100 ectoplasm per character towards a member they want to exploit, or they would not be able to get away with it. And that is not counting the influence of non-abusive large guilds recruiting those players.

But indeed, it is a concern that large guilds may start charging a membership fee of, say, 1 ectoplasm per week, in exchange for starting a bounty every hour.

It seems that, as with the ascended gear thread, our concerns are being shoved into one place so they can be easily ignored. Expect this thread to get locked soon without response, like that one was.

You do not need a guild of 100 players to do this! A guild of 10-20 can do this without a hitch.

Mwerevu.4013:

It seems that, as with the ascended gear thread, our concerns are being shoved into one place so they can be easily ignored. Expect this thread to get locked soon without response, like that one was.

This mentality contributes to the potential of it getting locked and the discussion shut down. People going “it doesn’t matter what we say, they won’t listen” . . . will, unfortunately, make a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think this one time where it isnt whining. A lot of constructive feedback is in this thread and some really great ideas (love the licences idea). Compare this to the legendary/ascended threads which were mostly just offensive and by a lot of non players.

I think the nub of the matter is they have misunderstood the term small guild in their community. This is going a long way to correct that i hope

Aisina.4963:

You do not need a guild of 100 players to do this! A guild of 10-20 can do this without a hitch.

I’m curious, not trying to bash you . . . but have you done it yet yourself? If so then I can at least reassure my guild a bit.

Randulf.7614:

I think this one time where it isnt whining. A lot of constructive feedback is in this thread and some really great ideas (love the licences idea). Compare this to the legendary/ascended threads which were mostly just offensive and by a lot of non players.

I think the nub of the matter is they have misunderstood the term small guild in their community. This is going a long way to correct that i hope

Yes, there’s plenty of constructive feedback and different opinions being shared. Unfortunately, now the task of some unlucky person at ArenaNet is to mine this thread and get the stuff distilled down to something they can cover in a meeting discussing this.

Then let me be the next to provide a link to this excellent post outlining what we perceive to be the problem, as well as possible solutions:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

Honestly, every page in this thread should have this link (except the page that has the posts in question).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Aisina.4963:

You do not need a guild of 100 players to do this! A guild of 10-20 can do this without a hitch.

I’m curious, not trying to bash you . . . but have you done it yet yourself? If so then I can at least reassure my guild a bit.

Small guilds can grind cash and buy influence. Bargain basement prices, 50k Unlock is YOURS for only 100 G’s!

Or alternatively you can ignore the “new content”. If ArenaNet realises people just aren’t prepared to jump through those kind of hoops maybe they will adjust future updates. Maybe not though.

Sarie.1630:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Aisina.4963:

You do not need a guild of 100 players to do this! A guild of 10-20 can do this without a hitch.

I’m curious, not trying to bash you . . . but have you done it yet yourself? If so then I can at least reassure my guild a bit.

Small guilds can grind cash and buy influence. Bargain basement prices, 50k Unlock is YOURS for only 100 G’s!

Or alternatively you can ignore the “new content”. If ArenaNet realises people just aren’t prepared to jump through those kind of hoops maybe they will adjust future updates. Maybe not though.

I know this, Sarie, I made this point before up-thread. I’m more curious if anyone has actually gotten their small 10-15 person guild to go do this stuff and can report back on the difficulties.

I’m sorry, I’m past asking about theoretical now since the patch is live and we can get hard data.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Then let me be the next to provide a link to this excellent post outlining what we perceive to be the problem, as well as possible solutions:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

Honestly, every page in this thread should have this link (except the page that has the posts in question).

It’s worth reading. I don’t agree with it 100% but . . . still worth reading since it encapsulates the issue well enough.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Aisina.4963:

You do not need a guild of 100 players to do this! A guild of 10-20 can do this without a hitch.

I’m curious, not trying to bash you . . . but have you done it yet yourself? If so then I can at least reassure my guild a bit.

I think the issue is that people in big guilds will have access to it a lot faster than the smaller guild….if you have politics 5 and Art of War 5 already unlocked I think the total amount of influence need for all the missions so far is at about 370,000.

I don’t think we will see the effects this will have on the smaller guilds until people start getting the the new gear and rewards for being in a big guild. For the argument that people in smaller guilds will be fine and it’s a rewarding challenge….we will see how many people will want to wait 6-8 months for gear when the people from larger guilds will access to it in about a month.

FilthyRat.4652:

I think the issue is that people in big guilds will have access to it a lot faster than the smaller guild….if you have politics 5 and Art of War 5 already unlocked I think the total amount of influence need for all the missions so far is at about 370,000.

I don’t think we will see the effects this will have on the smaller guilds until people start getting the the new gear and rewards for being in a big guild. For the argument that people in smaller guilds will be fine and it’s a rewarding challenge….we will see how many people will want to wait 6-8 months for gear when the people from larger guilds will access to it in about a month.

I think it’s been adequately stated that it’s an cost-to-access issue.

I also think “gear” is less of an issue here than just being able to do it.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Then let me be the next to provide a link to this excellent post outlining what we perceive to be the problem, as well as possible solutions:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

Honestly, every page in this thread should have this link (except the page that has the posts in question).

This post is incredible. I can’t click thumbs-up enough.

You know what annoys me the most about all this…

Im sure Anet has data on how many Guilds there are, and how much influence they have, and would have set the entry cost at what they thought achievable for the majority, based on their data.

Or, another way of looking at it, they purposely chose to isolate a fraction of their community from enjoying this content.

rstripn.8697:

The sheer amount of upset over the new guild mission system should be enough to tell the people in charge at ANet that they have made a mistake.

Sadly, I doubt it. Remember this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/first

People can piggy back on the larger guilds to see the content…but 90% of the people grind for gear in the game.

Not sure about how the reward system works but I have read that you don’t get commendations unless your guild has mission activated

I was thinking about that Xericor, and I think it’s a perception problem on ArenaNet’s behalf.

They’ve always been a bit weird with economies of scale anyway, what with titles in the first game “requiring” ridiculous amounts of grind to max out. Legendary Defender of Ascalon, the Kurzick and Luxon titles, the Gladiator track, etc. all required an inhuman investment of time.

But here I think they genuinely got riled by how quick a minority of players got a hold of Legendary weapons, the thing that was supposed to be end game content.
They ignored the fact that those who got Legendaries in a month had done so by exploiting various economic loopholes and have instead reacted long-term by designing goal acquisition times around those people instead of the larger gaming populous.
This is further compounded by various obnoxious elements reinforcing these decisions by agreeing that things should be this difficult to get.

It’s going to drive the greater population away, as they’ll see that nothing is attainable in a sensible amount of time.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Then let me be the next to provide a link to this excellent post outlining what we perceive to be the problem, as well as possible solutions:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

Honestly, every page in this thread should have this link (except the page that has the posts in question).

That was a great post, no two ways about that. He properly identified most of the issues with Guild Missions and provided several ways to address those issues. My only problem is that he missed the simplest and easiest fix. Allow small guilds to form alliances in which all of the guilds would gain influence generated as by the activities of individual members of any component guild. But that opens up a whole new can of worms.

Xericor.9103:

You know what annoys me the most about all this…

Im sure Anet has data on how many Guilds there are, and how much influence they have, and would have set the entry cost at what they thought achievable for the majority, based on their data.

Or, another way of looking at it, they purposely chose to isolate a fraction of their community from enjoying this content.

I’m sure they have data on it too, and I’m sure if asked they can come back in five minutes with any specific data present in their game. Such as a specific guild’s upgrade history.

I also “have data” on what the popular vote results were four elections ago, for . . . say . . . Rhode Island, in the sense that I can go searching and in ten minutes (maximum) I can have any specific data figure which has been measured concerning that election.

Now, just because I have access to that data doesn’t mean I have it all the time or it’s in front of me for reference.

Also, I think there was a very standard misconception at work in setting the price: “We’ll set it so that people won’t just step into it and finish it in a week.” Buuuuut we run into a problem of them possibly being aware 10% of the guilds might be able to just . . . buy their way into it on Day 1. (Note, quite a few did, within six hours of it going live.) The question became whether they should go ahead with “setting it so it’s a slow-consumed content” versus “do we alter it so more guilds can get access immediately since 10% of them are going to anyway?”

I don’t think there’s a good decision possible there.

This update makes me wonder if they had a new management or new people in charge the guild system…

The guild bonuses and unlocks at the start of the game were not daunting, I took 1 glance at it and knew that a small guild (read: 6~10 active players) was viable and can get all these essential quality of life unlocks within 1 or 2 months and the big ones like Deep Cave within 4 months. Very well designed, where the only difference between huge guilds and small guilds at that point is that they can maintain a constant blanket guild buff/banners whereas small guilds have to use the bonuses sparingly and wisely.

Then yesterday the whole concept changed. Enormous influence requirements for just playable content…small guilds disbanding flocking to big guild just for content…that isn’t right.

Mungrul.9358:

… I think it’s a perception problem on ArenaNet’s behalf.

They’ve always been a bit weird with economies of scale anyway…

…I think they genuinely got riled by how quick a minority of players got a hold of Legendary weapons, the thing that was supposed to be end game content…

This is further compounded by various obnoxious elements reinforcing these decisions by agreeing that things should be this difficult to get.

I’ve been suspicious that this is the case, as well. Although I’m convinced that some of the people who got Legendaries so quickly did it by purchasing gold from ArenaNet. And I think they’re quite fine with that.

So the only conclusion I can reasonably come to is they’ve equated grind with making money (I applied Occam’s Razor). So what I see here is a graduation from individuals grinding to guilds grinding. A way to subtly coerce more money out of folks.

The only plus side I see to this is that misery now has company.

NB: If you want an explanation why I think that ArenaNet sees grind as money, I can do that, but not here. Don’t want to make yet another TL:DR post that didn’t get read.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I know this, Sarie, I made this point before up-thread. I’m more curious if anyone has actually gotten their small 10-15 person guild to go do this stuff and can report back on the difficulties.

I’m sorry, I’m past asking about theoretical now since the patch is live and we can get hard data.

My post was a bit tongue in cheek really.

The guild I’m in has probably 100 members, but only 10-15 active at any one time. We’re earning a few thousand influence a day usually. Maybe up to 5k. I’m trying to encourage them to be a bit more efficient though – doing stuff like events together, full guild groups in dungeons, but it’s not easy. When someone wants to do something else it’s not entirely fair to try to force them to make that 4/5 guild group up to a 5/5 guild group just for the bonus influence…is it?

I dunno. A sticky situation we got here.

Was looking forward to coming back and checking out the update but this situation has changed my mind. My guild will never have enough inf to do this.

We are a group of friends who play in a number of games and we jump around quite a bit. So we rarely have more than a few online in GW2. We will not rep with another guild and we do not recruit strangers.

GW2 promised to be for players like us. But it was just another lie.

Why not just allow smaller guilds to “guest” with a larger one so they can earn Commedations? Seems like a simple solution.

What kills me are all the "I want it NOW’ posts here. I’m in a large guild and we picked what we wanted to unlock first knowing full well that these new things are going to take time. The instant-gratification generation is really showing their stuff if this thread.

Circling Skies.1872:

Why not just allow smaller guilds to “guest” with a larger one so they can earn Commedations? Seems like a simple solution.

What kills me are all the "I want it NOW’ posts here. I’m in a large guild and we picked what we wanted to unlock first knowing full well that these new things are going to take time. The instant-gratification generation is really showing their stuff if this thread.

It’s not quite the instant-gratification which is the problem here. It’s not that (some) of them want it “now”, it’s that they think they won’t ever get it. Or that it’s unfair someone else got there first by virtue of having disposable currency piled up.

This update is here for one reason: Gems->Gold->Influence.

I cannot grasp that people are trying to defend this. It is simply wrong. There is no excuse for these actions, it a pure case of trying to let players spend a fortune to even participate.

This company said they wanted to make an example for the future, i sure as hope noone is watching, instead of lifting the mmo out of the darkness it’s been plunged way way deeper into it then we could ever imagine. No more sub fees is a good price to get away with everything you want. What a shame and what a kitten waste of a game that is actually so much better then other mmo’s if it weren’t for this.

My only concern is that small guilds were completely left out. I play the game in a relaxed way, doing what I feel like when I feel like. I have a 2 person guild with my girlfriend. We already have a treasure trove and some other upgrades, so we know that we have to put some effort on it. But we’re fine with it, we don’t want the hassle of dealing with too much people and potential guild drama.

We were excited about guild missions and we knew it was going to require time and effort. But after seeing the requirements of the missions we felt completely and utterly discouraged and left out. There’s no possible way we could do any mission with only the two of us. And we’re not going to leave our guild after so much effort put on it. So yeah, we just said “ok, this sucks….”

I hope you guys do something to include guilds like mine. I bet there’s a lot of them. But to be honest, I won’t hold my hopes too high.

Btw, this post pretty much covers all the issues the current state of guild missions have https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

I would go as far as rolling back the guild missions until they’re better designed.