Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The statement was simply that, a statement. There have been several studies into the matter. Does it mean that there aren’t still smart people? Not at all. However, Einstein and his ilk were rarities, not the rule. Today, really smart people are still rarities, and seem to becoming more so due to the general nature of society (general loss or lack of common sense, loss of basic virtues, etc). It was not intended as an insult to those that are smart, nor was it ‘glorifying’ anything. It was simply a statement regarding the general population.

Well you are always free to post links to those said studies, because that’s not what I’m seeing people are reaching incredible heights. We are talking about warp technology, about colonizing planets, about artificial body parts that you can control as if it’s part of your body. The world is speeding up.
I would also question the loss of basic virtues. It depends what virtues every single person considers relevant does it not? For example in my great-grandmother’s single pregnant women would suicide. Simply because they would be ridiculed and thrown out of their village anyway. I don’t consider single mothers to be a bad thing. I grew up in a separated family and in my opinion single parents can give enough to a child to grow them up to be a normal adult. The same way that I don’t consider living as a couple without marriage to be bad. For some people though marriage is holy. They would doom other said people.
If I was to list all the things that I like and dislike we would probably disagree somewhere. I believe that age doesn’t mean that you have more credibility than a young person, in my opinion both should be judged on their words and actions and not age, I have never seen nationalism or being proud of your country, sex, skin colour as a good thing, even though some people would insist that a mixed society is going to doom us all… There are as many views as there are people. But these views say nothing of our intelligence. We can be such opposites that we would hate each other. However we both can be one of the smartest people in the world.

Thaddeus.4891:

This kind of boss already exist in the game. Its Kholer. He is clearly there to push people to learn how to dodge. But since it’s optional and have a really bad reward, nobody do it and nobody can learn from it.

You. You there. /brofist
I should start a Kholer fanclub thread… I’m seriously considering it.
Other than that…

Lishtenbird.2814:

they are elitists and require pink gear

That totally sounds like me.

Other than that too, don’t forget haviz hurt their little feelings by making them “frustrated” with his “uneducated” view of fracs. How can you possibly hope they aim to make their players better after such a claim (oho almost a rhyme)? Just saying. Maybe it’s just me.

Players are babied and hand held enough.
The problem is bad players are not punished. If someone lays dead at a boss or event for more than 15 secs, they should lose all credit for it.
If they are afk or hiding and not actually damaging the boss, their contribution should go down and get far less rewards.
They don’t need to be handheld anymore, they need to be accountable for lack of caring or effort.

Vol.7601:

For example, most players think aoes are not harmful unless you stand in them forever.
Shadow Strike can instantly kill you if you drop from a height with low HP
Ice Storm can instantly down you if you do not avoid them, especially when the aoes are stacked (often the case with a zerg)
So you won’t know these mechanics on your first run.

I think another problem with this is simply the inconsistently. Throughout PVE players are unintentionally taught that red rings do not always equal death. Open world PVE is filled with none-lethal aoe attacks. So when they are fighting that boss, they may falsely assume that those red rings won’t hit quite as hard as they do.

MrRuin.9740:

Players are babied and hand held enough.
The problem is bad players are not punished.

I wonder if there are any game designers out there who believe their players are not being punished enough, and if they are generally considered to be good game designers.

I personally don’t subscribe to the notion that players need to be taught how to play by repeatedly hitting them over the head with a rock till they bleed. I think players should be encouraged naturally to learn the mechanics, so the process doesn’t feel like you’re in school. Hand holding is fine, if it teaches core mechanics.

Fungalfoot.7213:

The issue here isn’t bad players – it’s bad design. If they started designing content which was more than zerg fests and DPS races this issue would resolve itself. I’d love a return to Guild Wars with companions, hardmode zones and all that good kitten but that isn’t very likely to happen anymore now is it?

And why would you support blatant gold sinks like foods and vendor buffs? If anything you should be calling for them to removed so ANet won’t balance the game around them anymore. Maybe then we’d see a bit more balance in WvWvW. The casuals aren’t going to pay up anyway so why even bother? There is no skill involved in passive buffs.

no, it is not. If people cannot even grasp concepts of zerg fest and DPS race, how do you expect them to perform with more complex game mechanics and roles?

I’ve been advocating for better combat logs for a long time, and this is just the sort of situation where parsing combat data really shines.

Take the battle for lions arch for example. I’ve learned the fights thoroughly and can dodge all the telegraphed attacks without much issue now, despite a few hiccups now and then. So the only thing left for me to get better at for this encounter is my damage.

But what feedback do i get on my damage? I see the numbers, yes, but relative to what? I have no idea how i measure up to other characters on the same event. And i don’t mean to say this as “hur bro ur dmg sucks” i mean this as “am i doing at least above average damage for this fight?” “Is my damage severely lacking, should i consider rebuilding for this event?”

We receive no feedback that our damage is lacking until you realize you’ve been blasting the knight for 20 minutes and he’s still at 50% health. And even then, your damage might be fine and the damage from other might be what’s lacking…there really is no way to know.

Once you have your dodges down, all that is left is to get better at doing damage, but there is nothing that indicates your damage is sub optimal or you have room to improve.

This is why so many people result to cookie cutter builds online, because there is no way to easy test your own builds so you are probably better off using what the forums agree is the optimal build.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Vol.7601:

For example, most players think aoes are not harmful unless you stand in them forever.
Shadow Strike can instantly kill you if you drop from a height with low HP
Ice Storm can instantly down you if you do not avoid them, especially when the aoes are stacked (often the case with a zerg)
So you won’t know these mechanics on your first run.

I think another problem with this is simply the inconsistently. Throughout PVE players are unintentionally taught that red rings do not always equal death. Open world PVE is filled with none-lethal aoe attacks. So when they are fighting that boss, they may falsely assume that those red rings won’t hit quite as hard as they do.

Yeah, I must wonder if it would have been better to have different mechanics for veterans/elites.

Right now they only hit a bit harder and have way more HP.

But what if Anet had a system where Vets have highly telegraphed skills that could down you. It would certainly teach players to dodge.

What if Elites utilized more dangerous skills?

Morrigan.2809:

mmm I really see your point.

I am a casual player but the average player skill in this game boggles my mind.
People do not swap weapons, use consumables, use utilities properly- heck people don’t even use their weapon skills properly.

I have lost count on how many times I have seen Mesmers facehugging a boss twanging away on GS 1- or casting feedback on the one melee mob in a battle.

And make no mistake it is not new players- because in my experience at least genuinely new people ask questions and are eager to learn.

I hear Anet developed more comprehensive tutorials for the China release- I have good hope we will see those implemented.

I still don’t think that it is really an Anet problem though- the game is easy to pick up- you don’t have to master it to play most content – the skrit hits the fan when those same people show up at a fight that at least requires you to read map chat- never mind actually pay attention

The problem is really the term casual here and specifically the go to defense “but I am a casual player” in the GW2 community. MMORPG do not mainly require special hand coordination skills or insane reaction times. The thing they really require is the ability to perceive a given challenge/situation, apply your mind to it and find a solution. This is basic human nature (or at least one would think).

Casual players, the real ones, not the ones who equate “casual” with “very bad” as an act of self defense, may not have ascended gear, maybe not even full exotics, maybe they don´t have a special food buff in their inventory, but they still have their working mind. And even if one was really not able to put his mind to work on a given challenge, it takes like 2 minutes of google searching to find a page that explains a build, class, skill, strategy, whatever.

SkylightMoon.1980:

lol you didn’t read anything the original OP or comments on the thread said did you? What doesnt make since is why you made a completely new thread and still refer to an OP? I guess this was so important to you that posting a simple comment wasn’t enough. You really wanted your skewed view of elitism and noobism to be heard.

I hope answering you one more time will suffice. I actually went and looked through that thread one more time after your message, but all I saw there was another “People are obliged to help us, all who do not want beginners with low AP and blue gear in their ‘zerk only 80 exp’ groups do not want challenge and are selfish elitists!”. Sorry, but this is very much what skewed view of elitism and noobism is in my opinion.

There are plenty of things to do as a newbie in this game, and I checked it myself. I never jumped into an exp speedrun because I cared to read the description; I asked people if it’s okay for me to stay since I hadn’t played the game for so long if the party had no description. I googled for guides and came up with a viable build eventually. And having experienced that myself, I see no reason why people should be obliged to others once they already invested their 1000(s) of hours and want to have their fun. I enjoy giving hints during Marionette, Escape From LA and Knights/Holo fights because it makes me feel I’m contributing; but when I want to do a speedrun with “80 exp” people, I politely ask a 500 AP lvl 40 ranger to leave the party in the chat, giving the reason that we want a fast run. There are always new players and veterans; stay in your own player slice and enjoy it without envying others, because 99% of PvE is already extremely easy and casual.

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I think you’re wrong. I dont think “lazyness” is the answer to why so many dont play as you wish. It is about choices. I dont remember exactly all anet said when I buyed (bought?) this game, but I remember the “jump in and play” and “if you see someone fighting, go ahead and join, you are helping.”
And then it appears there is alot of mechanics, there is a lot of armor and weapons, even proffesions, that isnt good enough, and there is a lot of people who demand you to research guides, builds and tactics, go on youtube to be “prepared” for dungeons and most of all, understand all these fgj, gs, wp, hambows and whatnot.
Not to mention combo fields, what they do, how they work and wich one to use in different situations and with different players.
Not everybody, but a big lot looks at this and think “heck, this isnt supposed to be a second life or a job or something, this is about me playing a game for fun a couple of hours some afternoons. Dont need that, dont even want to need that”
Because a lot of people dont take this very serious, and why should they? It is a game after all. So they choose not to invest the time and/or effort to be good, and demanding anything else will just make them walk away.

When you play the game, you eventually become better at it; succeeding is what delivers the pleasure, mastering is what makes you feel good (just like the guitar analogy from Thaddeus). If you’re playing the game at mental level 1 continuously and do not evolve, I don’t think it’s okay; you may either go and play a single-player game then, or rather start smoking or drinking alcohol as these hobbies are just as relaxing and challenging. I might be exaggerating here, but I think you get the idea.

Thaddeus.4891:

This kind of boss already exist in the game. Its Kholer. He is clearly there to push people to learn how to dodge. But since it’s optional and have a really bad reward, nobody do it and nobody can learn from it.

I’m doing Kholer 99% of times and haven’t dodged a single time because a) I can’t see anything behind the particle spam and b) it’s stack-boonspam-heal rather then dodging, and instakills from Kholer are not that often in my experience.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I don’t think it’s okay; you may either go and play a single-player game then, or rather start smoking or drinking alcohol as these hobbies are just as relaxing and challenging.

I’m going to state two things here:
1. A lot of the times it’s single player games that are made to appeal to the hardcore audience. See Dark Souls or millions of rogue alikes out there if you need an example. You’ll rarely see a hard MMO out there. And most of the times they won’t exactly stick with the western audience (See Wizardry online. European and American servers are closing, even though the game is doing really well with the Asian audience)
2. If someone wants to relax you should not be suggesting them to harm themselves. You can relax playing a game or watching a movie far better than killing yourself with alcohol and cigarettes.

Maybe not everybody is interested in maximizing damage / kills. I know this seems very strange to some people. The other way around some people don’t understand why other people are interested in cosmetics (and so are just as mad about cosmetics in the cash-shop as P2kill stuff in the cash-shop).

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

About people not going outside of Queensdale train and world boss zergs. I personally don’t do that so much but those people you seem to be referring to are likely more interested in cosmetics then numbers and that has been turned into a gold-grind in this game so people look for an easy and fast way to grind gold. Thats why you see those people there.

Personally I don’t die a lot and I know how to dodge but I am not interested in checking out all the numbers to max out stuff and I almost never use (only when really necessary) food because thats just not my play-style.

I would care more about having a nice mini. (not so much in this game because that part is all monetized and turned into a boring grind.. but in general) I also like hard content but the whole number-crushing I don’t like. If it was up to me there were less options for that.

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

Thaddeus.4891:

This kind of boss already exist in the game. Its Kholer. He is clearly there to push people to learn how to dodge. But since it’s optional and have a really bad reward, nobody do it and nobody can learn from it.

I miss actually fighting Kholer (or as I like to call him, spin to win man). Any time I taught someone AC before stacking became so popular, I would tell them Kholer is their introduction to dodging.

Vol.7601:

Right now they only hit a bit harder and have way more HP.

But what if Anet had a system where Vets have highly telegraphed skills that could down you. It would certainly teach players to dodge.

What if Elites utilized more dangerous skills?

They’re starting to with the living story. Not all of them do it, but aetherblades for instance can warbanner and buff themselves. The warbanner itself can be deadly depending on the circumstances. I think one knocked out ~22k HP from my 3k armor, 27k HP shout heal warrior during Escape from Lion’s Arch.

I personally think that the berserker meta and stacking in dungeons has helped aid in this noob bubble. We have such a focus on speed clearing and most efficient tactics, that newer players don’t necessarily learn what it is they’re doing. They simply know do as much damage as possible. Kill the enemy before it kills you.

I was in a CM run the other day, and this exchange occured: http://i.imgur.com/IkJN2BO.jpg This guy calling for stacking was a newer player (judging from AP at least). Stacking, a mechanic of the game? This is what we’re teaching the players. Not LoS (line of sight would be a better “mechanic” description), not how to dodge (this guy downed the most during that battle cause he didn’t bother to evade the attacks hitting him).

Players aren’t learning, players aren’t teaching. Most of the abilities of bosses and enemies don’t get seen at all because they’re mashed up against a wall 90% of the time. The 10% that it doesn’t occur, people flail and down because they don’t know what to do now that the boss isn’t part of the scenery.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. *And food, I almost never used ’foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating*.

*scratches head*

That there is a new one.

.. No, I don’t get it either. Unless there’s a diet involved and you can only have food on cheat day. Let’s face it, GW2 is a dieting nightmare: we have chocolate cake, white chocolate cake, chocolate covered fruit, strawberry shortcake, cookies, ice cream, pies... oh, gods. I love this game if only for the chef crafting recipes alone.

EDIT: Have read Devata’s post with explanation, and... each to their own, I suppose.

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

do you upgrade your gear? Or do you still use the low lvl blues? Not hating just curious.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Heraldusluminare.2946:

Also, spoon-feed players by having NPCs shout out instructions on how to defeat bosses:

[Assault Knights appear]
Rox: “Looks like Scarlet’s getting annoyed. Don’t forget to use your Scarlet’s Army Slaying Potion if you have any.”

[Assault Knight takes a flying leap]
Majory: “The Assault Knight is going to pull you in, dodge, now!”

[Assault Knights throw up their defensive shields]
Heal-o-Tron: Enemy-unit-has-engaged-shields. Suggest-cessation-of-condition-based-skills.

Better if said warnings appear as large flashing text in front of their screens consisting of no more than two words and an exclamation “Drink Potion!”, “Dodge Now!”, “No Conditions!”

Because players are becoming too impatient (and possibly lazy) to read a long string of text on their right.

It has been shown that the human IQ has slowly been lowering since the Victorian age. Not boding well for the longevity of the human race, honestly.

Also, your ‘flashing words’… only if some of us have the option to shut the things off. Some people suffer from migraines and other issues that can be affected by a lot of things flashing on the screen.

Since the early 20th century, raw scores on IQ tests have increased in most parts of the world.³⁵³⁶³⁷ When a new version of an IQ test is normed, the standard scoring is set so performance at the population median results in a score of IQ 100. The phenomenon of rising raw score performance means if test-takers are scored by a constant standard scoring rule, IQ test scores have been rising at an average rate of around three IQ points per decade. This phenomenon was named the Flynn effect in the book The Bell Curve after James R. Flynn, the author who did the most to bring this phenomenon to the attention of psychologists.³⁸³⁹

Algreg.3629:

Morrigan.2809:

mmm I really see your point.

I am a casual player but the average player skill in this game boggles my mind.
People do not swap weapons, use consumables, use utilities properly- heck people don’t even use their weapon skills properly.

I have lost count on how many times I have seen Mesmers facehugging a boss twanging away on GS 1- or casting feedback on the one melee mob in a battle.

And make no mistake it is not new players- because in my experience at least genuinely new people ask questions and are eager to learn.

I hear Anet developed more comprehensive tutorials for the China release- I have good hope we will see those implemented.

I still don’t think that it is really an Anet problem though- the game is easy to pick up- you don’t have to master it to play most content – the skrit hits the fan when those same people show up at a fight that at least requires you to read map chat- never mind actually pay attention

The problem is really the term casual here and specifically the go to defense “but I am a casual player” in the GW2 community. MMORPG do not mainly require special hand coordination skills or insane reaction times. The thing they really require is the ability to perceive a given challenge/situation, apply your mind to it and find a solution. This is basic human nature (or at least one would think).

Casual players, the real ones, not the ones who equate “casual” with “very bad” as an act of self defense, may not have ascended gear, maybe not even full exotics, maybe they don´t have a special food buff in their inventory, but they still have their working mind. And even if one was really not able to put his mind to work on a given challenge, it takes like 2 minutes of google searching to find a page that explains a build, class, skill, strategy, whatever.

But that is the thing- I call myself casual because I do not research builds for hours, have Ascended gear or do Dungeons much at all- to me that is a casual player.

I do however have a mind- and I use it to the best of my ability.
I do my best and I learn from my mistakes.
I am by no means a good player

What I see though is players not even bothering on reading the description on their skill bar- that is lazy.
There is no other word for it.

In big fights you at least have to have some situational awareness, read map chat and pay attention to what is happening around you.

Thing is people don’t and they don’t care and I don’t think Anet can really force them because they will say- play how I want or leave

Mirta.5029:

Well you are always free to post links to those said studies, because that’s not what I’m seeing people are reaching incredible heights. We are talking about warp technology, about colonizing planets, about artificial body parts that you can control as if it’s part of your body. The world is speeding up.

Again, you’re referencing the few, not the many. Only a small percentage of people actual posses the intellect to achieve the necessary technology you’re looking at here. Sure, the world is speeding up. We have powerful computers at our finger tips, yet 25% of American children grow up without learning to read. Seems contradictory doesn’kitten

If I run across any specific one, Ill add the link. It’s been a while since I’ve randomly read stuff online. Although, you could also google it. You’ll find plenty of articles… some valid (health sites, genetics site, university studies), some just blowing smoke. Obviously all should be taken with a grain of salt, but still some interesting reads.

I would also question the loss of basic virtues. It depends what virtues every single person considers relevant does it not? For example in my great-grandmother’s single pregnant women would suicide. Simply because they would be ridiculed and thrown out of their village anyway. I don’t consider single mothers to be a bad thing. I grew up in a separated family and in my opinion single parents can give enough to a child to grow them up to be a normal adult. The same way that I don’t consider living as a couple without marriage to be bad. For some people though marriage is holy. They would doom other said people.
If I was to list all the things that I like and dislike we would probably disagree somewhere. I believe that age doesn’t mean that you have more credibility than a young person, in my opinion both should be judged on their words and actions and not age, I have never seen nationalism or being proud of your country, sex, skin colour as a good thing, even though some people would insist that a mixed society is going to doom us all… There are as many views as there are people. But these views say nothing of our intelligence. We can be such opposites that we would hate each other. However we both can be one of the smartest people in the world.

I was thinking virtues along the lines of – patience, tolerance, honesty, kindness, respect, forgiveness, and compassion. Yes, there are still a lot of people that possess these qualities, but in the last 10-15 years not so much.

Common sense… not so common anymore. I mean really, warning labels exist because someone (probably a lot of someones) did exactly what the label says not to do.

I take a look at society, and the way people act and treat each other now vs 10, 15, even 20 years ago (mind you, I’m only 30) and it’s appalling. Its disheartening. It makes me want to walk up to some people, cuff them upside the head, and ask them if their mother raised them in a barn.

Must admit I always forget the potions in dungeons and in LA. And I prefer not to dodge the Knight’s pull, but to let it pull me then evade backwards with Ele Fire Staff #4, burning it and creating fire fields.

I would suggest something like WoW’s proving grounds, where you face against practice enemies to defeat the targets with actual skills (Interrupts, dodge, positioning, ect.)

The double edged sword, though, is that there is no way to prove weather someone has done the actual trial per say. Unless you make it obligatory, but then my question is how would you even go about doing that given the way the game is structured?

Yargesh.4965:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Heraldusluminare.2946:

Also, spoon-feed players by having NPCs shout out instructions on how to defeat bosses:

[Assault Knights appear]
Rox: “Looks like Scarlet’s getting annoyed. Don’t forget to use your Scarlet’s Army Slaying Potion if you have any.”

[Assault Knight takes a flying leap]
Majory: “The Assault Knight is going to pull you in, dodge, now!”

[Assault Knights throw up their defensive shields]
Heal-o-Tron: Enemy-unit-has-engaged-shields. Suggest-cessation-of-condition-based-skills.

Better if said warnings appear as large flashing text in front of their screens consisting of no more than two words and an exclamation “Drink Potion!”, “Dodge Now!”, “No Conditions!”

Because players are becoming too impatient (and possibly lazy) to read a long string of text on their right.

It has been shown that the human IQ has slowly been lowering since the Victorian age. Not boding well for the longevity of the human race, honestly.

Also, your ‘flashing words’… only if some of us have the option to shut the things off. Some people suffer from migraines and other issues that can be affected by a lot of things flashing on the screen.

Since the early 20th century, raw scores on IQ tests have increased in most parts of the world.³⁵³⁶³⁷ When a new version of an IQ test is normed, the standard scoring is set so performance at the population median results in a score of IQ 100. The phenomenon of rising raw score performance means if test-takers are scored by a constant standard scoring rule, IQ test scores have been rising at an average rate of around three IQ points per decade. This phenomenon was named the Flynn effect in the book The Bell Curve after James R. Flynn, the author who did the most to bring this phenomenon to the attention of psychologists.³⁸³⁹

The problem with studies, is that with enough of the ‘right’ candidates, they can be swayed to show pretty much anything. I do admit (see my other post to Mirta) that they should all be taken with a grain of salt. From my personal experience, I am apt to learn towards the average iq dropping. Or perhaps, people just prefer to act like idiots. I honestly don’t know.

Scrambles.2604:

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

do you upgrade your gear? Or do you still use the low lvl blues? Not hating just curious.

I do upgrade and I don’t mind doing that. I should say it does not have my priority, especially when leveling it happens that I use old stuff so long then I really start to notice it. More something I want (or need) to check out when max leven.

But for me then finding a highest tier set with the stats that are good for me is really enough. Then come all the other numbers and all the people debating what is best and what sigil to use and what rune and all the traits. What I usually do is I simply ask somebody or I just read and take that what sounds most fun. I have now 2 armor sets, one more Tougness one for more DPS on my main. Exotics, when I just completed my second set they introduced the ascended stuff.

I just don’t like the number crushing and changing everything after a patch because OMG now something else is a little better and all that stuff. It’s just an element that does not have my interest.

So yes I do get the full set (even two when really necessary) but don’t ask me to bother with all the little numbers after that because I rather don’t and only do if I really need to.

It’s just the level of detail with those numbers many people here seem to love so much that I (and many with me) just don’t care about.

Morrigan.2809:

Algreg.3629:

Morrigan.2809:

mmm I really see your point.

I am a casual player but the average player skill in this game boggles my mind.
People do not swap weapons, use consumables, use utilities properly- heck people don’t even use their weapon skills properly.

I have lost count on how many times I have seen Mesmers facehugging a boss twanging away on GS 1- or casting feedback on the one melee mob in a battle.

And make no mistake it is not new players- because in my experience at least genuinely new people ask questions and are eager to learn.

I hear Anet developed more comprehensive tutorials for the China release- I have good hope we will see those implemented.

I still don’t think that it is really an Anet problem though- the game is easy to pick up- you don’t have to master it to play most content – the skrit hits the fan when those same people show up at a fight that at least requires you to read map chat- never mind actually pay attention

The problem is really the term casual here and specifically the go to defense “but I am a casual player” in the GW2 community. MMORPG do not mainly require special hand coordination skills or insane reaction times. The thing they really require is the ability to perceive a given challenge/situation, apply your mind to it and find a solution. This is basic human nature (or at least one would think).

Casual players, the real ones, not the ones who equate “casual” with “very bad” as an act of self defense, may not have ascended gear, maybe not even full exotics, maybe they don´t have a special food buff in their inventory, but they still have their working mind. And even if one was really not able to put his mind to work on a given challenge, it takes like 2 minutes of google searching to find a page that explains a build, class, skill, strategy, whatever.

But that is the thing- I call myself casual because I do not research builds for hours, have Ascended gear or do Dungeons much at all- to me that is a casual player.

I do however have a mind- and I use it to the best of my ability.
I do my best and I learn from my mistakes.
I am by no means a good player

What I see though is players not even bothering on reading the description on their skill bar- that is lazy.
There is no other word for it.

In big fights you at least have to have some situational awareness, read map chat and pay attention to what is happening around you.

Thing is people don’t and they don’t care and I don’t think Anet can really force them because they will say- play how I want or leave

yes, that´s what I implied – you are playing casually – and not badly :P

Morrigan.2809:

But that is the thing- I call myself casual because I do not research builds for hours, have Ascended gear or do Dungeons much at all- to me that is a casual player.

I do however have a mind- and I use it to the best of my ability.
I do my best and I learn from my mistakes.
I am by no means a good player

What I see though is players not even bothering on reading the description on their skill bar- that is lazy.
There is no other word for it.

In big fights you at least have to have some situational awareness, read map chat and pay attention to what is happening around you.

Thing is people don’t and they don’t care and I don’t think Anet can really force them because they will say- play how I want or leave

Agreed on all points except that I have awful situational awareness if particles are involved. It’s been super hard for me to get through some of the fights, but I’m happy to do it, and I know I’m improving, and learning. Which is good, because I can’t do more than a few of them in a session and then I really should be done for a while. Hubby says I’d probably enjoy raid content if I got the nerve to ever do it, and I concur. Except for the particles, natch.

That “play how you want” keep coming back to haunt us! Technically, however, we all can still play how we want. It’s just we have to realise that in doing so, not all available content is for us (this is a meme now, isn’t it!).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

MrRuin.9740:

Players are babied and hand held enough.
The problem is bad players are not punished.

I wonder if there are any game designers out there who believe their players are not being punished enough, and if they are generally considered to be good game designers.

I personally don’t subscribe to the notion that players need to be taught how to play by repeatedly hitting them over the head with a rock till they bleed. I think players should be encouraged naturally to learn the mechanics, so the process doesn’t feel like you’re in school. Hand holding is fine, if it teaches core mechanics.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be some learning process where they teach you the core mechanics. That’s what levelling is for. There’s no incentive to though. Take 2 people. One learns all the mechanics, makes it through a major boss fight with even downing and provides maximum damage contribution. The other is a level70 in level25 whites at a level80 event. He dies repeatedly, people keep rezzing him from downed state until eventually he is completely dead and just lays there.
But he doesnt care. Why? Because he gets the same reward as someone who did bother to learn and even worse he can potentially get a better reward through the magic of RNG.
Why should person B get the same reward or potentially better than person A?
This is the single biggest reason for people not caring, not bothering and being lazy.

Anet can handhold and baby all they want, but when people get max or even better rewards for doing little or nothing, they have no incentive to pay attention to the babying. I’m not suggesting beating people with rocks. I am suggesting taking away rewarding people for being lazy and not bothering. They should get as much reward as they put into it – nothing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yargesh.4965:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Heraldusluminare.2946:

Also, spoon-feed players by having NPCs shout out instructions on how to defeat bosses:

[Assault Knights appear]
Rox: “Looks like Scarlet’s getting annoyed. Don’t forget to use your Scarlet’s Army Slaying Potion if you have any.”

[Assault Knight takes a flying leap]
Majory: “The Assault Knight is going to pull you in, dodge, now!”

[Assault Knights throw up their defensive shields]
Heal-o-Tron: Enemy-unit-has-engaged-shields. Suggest-cessation-of-condition-based-skills.

Better if said warnings appear as large flashing text in front of their screens consisting of no more than two words and an exclamation “Drink Potion!”, “Dodge Now!”, “No Conditions!”

Because players are becoming too impatient (and possibly lazy) to read a long string of text on their right.

It has been shown that the human IQ has slowly been lowering since the Victorian age. Not boding well for the longevity of the human race, honestly.

Also, your ‘flashing words’… only if some of us have the option to shut the things off. Some people suffer from migraines and other issues that can be affected by a lot of things flashing on the screen.

Since the early 20th century, raw scores on IQ tests have increased in most parts of the world.³⁵³⁶³⁷ When a new version of an IQ test is normed, the standard scoring is set so performance at the population median results in a score of IQ 100. The phenomenon of rising raw score performance means if test-takers are scored by a constant standard scoring rule, IQ test scores have been rising at an average rate of around three IQ points per decade. This phenomenon was named the Flynn effect in the book The Bell Curve after James R. Flynn, the author who did the most to bring this phenomenon to the attention of psychologists.³⁸³⁹

The problem with studies, is that with enough of the ‘right’ candidates, they can be swayed to show pretty much anything. I do admit (see my other post to Mirta) that they should all be taken with a grain of salt. From my personal experience, I am apt to learn towards the average iq dropping. Or perhaps, people just prefer to act like idiots. I honestly don’t know.

Those data are from eveyone that takes an official iq test which for a while was every student in a large part of the developed world.

Thaddeus.4891:

This kind of boss already exist in the game. Its Kholer. He is clearly there to push people to learn how to dodge. But since it’s optional and have a really bad reward, nobody do it and nobody can learn from it.

When the champion troll spawns I kite him into Kohler and the group makes bets on how much damage the troll can do to him before getting killed. It’s a reliable 50-60% HP loss for Kohler.

Clever, eh? Eh?

…

I’ll just show myself out.

On topic: The game aims to please casuals because they are the ones who turn the most profit. Casuals log in for short periods and so consume content slower but are more willing to spend cash on gems because they will not [grind champion trains / speed run dungeons / farm material nodes / play the TP / perform other profitable but boring activity] and instead just want to jump right into the “fun” stuff.

These people more often than not have no intention to spend time on watching video guides, reseraching optimal builds, reading up on their class or looking into the uses of food and potions. Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a game for them and so if Arenanet decided to tailor content to people who are knowledgable or at least eager to spend time learning, these extreme casuals would leave and take their wallets with them.

From a business point of view, it makes no sense to cater to people who know what they are doing because they are also the type who can make a decent living within the game (knowing what and where to farm, avoiding repair costs due rarely dying, being accepted into dungeon speed runs, maybe even selling dungeon runs, etc.) and so they’re more likely to be able to afford cash shop items by converting gold to gems – meaning no revenue for Anet.

I think arenanet likes the zone wide zergs(the mindless content). If im not mistaken, colin said that their game revolves around people completing content in open world. This can only lead to zerg. And I believe that Chris Whiteside even said that he likes zerg content(although I could be mistaken on this one).

For me, all signs point to arenanet supporting zerg content. They can change it all they want with reward tiers via some form of cooperation. In the end, most servers will blobl up to zerg and overflows definately will 9/10 time.s

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Lishtenbird.2814:

My suggestions are:

• Introduce a required boss(es) that insta-kills you when you fail to dodge when NPC told you to.
• Introduce a required boss(es) that insta-kills you if you do not get a potion and nourishment from NPC which told you to, or a zone which kills you fast if you do not get a potion/nourishment “antidote”.

Those are terrible suggestions! Requiring players to use a consumable to beat content is bad and annoying. Insta kills are also bad and annoying.

What the game needs, is a tutorial, and slowly increasing difficulty. The game needs to teach players the required skills naturally as they play through PVE. Players aren’t lazy, but the game designers made a design mistake by not coming up with a decent way to teach players essential combat strategy.

Currently almost all of open world PVE makes zero requirement regarding skill, but doesn’t teach anything either. Then there’s dungeons, which are a very steep increase in difficulty and mechanics, without teaching those mechanics first. Fractals is a bit more gradual, but I think a lot of players falsely assume that since Fractals aren’t accessibly until halfway into the game, that they are there for at a higher difficulty tier than dungeons.

Ah, Malafide, I agree. Instakill only leads to frustration and doesn’t give you an opportunity to course-correct. I feel like that’s the academic equivalent of “we don’t need to teach these kids writing skills and techniques, we need to throw ‘em in to a 20 page essay that is pass/fail depending on criteria we won’t clearly communicate to them.” A good teacher knows that’s a terrible way for people to learn. This game absolutely needs a more in-depth tutorial system and a deeper explanation of its mechanics. Allow people to go into training instances with a boss that helps them hone one mechanic – dodge, condition removal, shields, effect fields, combo finishers – and let them practice. Heck, I’d do this on the classes/weapons I play less often just to get reacquainted with the skills in a stakes-free environment.

There’s a heart in Queensdale that lets you train timing shots through blocking, skills that utilize a “hold down the key” mechanic, etc. I thought there would be more places like this about because that sort of thing is incredibly useful for understanding mechanics while also being totally immersive within the game. Alas.

Someone upthread mentioned more audio cues from NPCs. I love this idea, too. NPCs were so well-utilized in the marionette battle, as far as offering relevant information. I wouldn’t have to constantly look at the UI and could focus on the combat in front of me. It made the event more fun, too, getting to hear their encouragement or bringing your attention to the boon they gave you. A gentle reminder about the potion would be good. Because, yes, I forget to drink! It lasts like 20 minutes and usually in that time frame I’m in the middle of trying to keep three separate objectives in my mind ankitten ot focused on consumables when I get jumped by a patrol. I especially forget to drink because I used to actively avoid potions due to the year-old bug that only recently got fixed.

I’d also add that there is a big inconsistency in enemy aoe fields. A red ring can mean “standing here is okay, but don’t hit the walls!” or “insta death” or “damage over time if you don’t scurry out of here”. The timing for the dodge is inconsistent; I mentioned this in a reply post about the LA Knights. You’re expected to dodge just after the red ring goes away. In what other part of the game is this the case? How would you know that without trial and error? You wouldn’t, and in this case it’s not the players’ skill levels or familiarity with mechanics that matters, it’s familiarity with a singular boss.

We’re at a point in the game’s lifespan where there’s a big gap between new players and experienced ones. Those of us here from the beginning who kept up with mechanics in each update have a huge advantage because we’ve been able to learn gradually and gather experience. These new players are thrown into an environment where there isn’t a lot of up-to-date in-game guidance. I had to find out myself how combo fields worked and how my builds could utilize them better by reading on the wiki for about an hour. Information like that should be more pronounced in-game.

Not so long ago I’ve seen a warrior with a legendary greatsword repeatedly putting Banner of Discipline on Golem mk II. A perfect example of how good is your average player.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

lol. Food viewed as cheating. Now I have seen it all

I assume when you play other games where there are potions, you don’t use any of them either because its cheating?

Forget doing things effeciently, lets take our merry time in this world eh?

Time = money. You are wasting other ppls time when you join a party and not provide 100%. Without buffs, you are helping out the party to maybe 90% of your capacity. You can do better. Use oils/food, theres a reason its in the game. To buff you. If thats cheating, then hell, everything is cheating.

I guess you dont try to stack might either because thats also cheating in your dictonary?

kimeekat.2548:

I feel like that’s the academic equivalent of “we don’t need to teach these kids writing skills and techniques, we need to throw ‘em in to a 20 page essay that is pass/fail depending on criteria we won’t clearly communicate to them.” A good teacher knows that’s a terrible way for people to learn.

That’s a very fitting analogy.

kimeekat.2548:

There’s a heart in Queensdale that lets you train timing shots through blocking, skills that utilize a “hold down the key” mechanic, etc. I thought there would be more places like this about because that sort of thing is incredibly useful for understanding mechanics while also being totally immersive within the game. Alas.

I was just thinking about that heart-quest too. It would be great if the game featured more of such quests. It’s a perfect way to instruct players in various mechanics while they are playing.

kimeekat.2548:

I’d also add that there is a big inconsistency in enemy aoe fields. A red ring can mean “standing here is okay, but don’t hit the walls!” or “insta death” or “damage over time if you don’t scurry out of here”. The timing for the dodge is inconsistent; I mentioned this in a reply post about the LA Knights. You’re expected to dodge just after the red ring goes away. In what other part of the game is this the case? How would you know that without trial and error? You wouldn’t, and in this case it’s not the players’ skill levels or familiarity with mechanics that matters, it’s familiarity with a singular boss.

I agree entirely. Normally an aoe ring means dodge now. It’s inconsistent to introduce an enemy where it suddenly means something totally different.

kimeekat.2548:

We’re at a point in the game’s lifespan where there’s a big gap between new players and experienced ones. Those of us here from the beginning who kept up with mechanics in each update have a huge advantage because we’ve been able to learn gradually and gather experience. These new players are thrown into an environment where there isn’t a lot of up-to-date in-game guidance. I had to find out myself how combo fields worked and how my builds could utilize them better by reading on the wiki for about an hour. Information like that should be more pronounced in-game.

I’m quite worried how new players are ever expected to catch up with more seasoned players.

@Mad Queen

I’m quite worried how new players are ever expected to catch up with more seasoned players.

Dungeon. mentors.

Why is no one here tapping into this resource?

The baptism by fire and ‘stand on your own two feet and walk’ approach is known to backfire more often than not.

First you need a resilient player to adapt to the conditions. What would you rather as motivation to get you through an obstacle… a helping hand or a clip across the ear? And what do you, as an experienced player, want to do… ultimately to help or to hinder? It’s all got to do with the approach.

It was mind boggling to see people failing Marionette, even after 2 weeks.
The average skill level is pretty low indeed.

And it’s wrong to label someone an elitist if they give you an advice of running the zerk gear because it’s the best one in this game.

Devata.6589:

Scrambles.2604:

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

do you upgrade your gear? Or do you still use the low lvl blues? Not hating just curious.

I do upgrade and I don’t mind doing that. I should say it does not have my priority, especially when leveling it happens that I use old stuff so long then I really start to notice it. More something I want (or need) to check out when max leven.

But for me then finding a highest tier set with the stats that are good for me is really enough. Then come all the other numbers and all the people debating what is best and what sigil to use and what rune and all the traits. What I usually do is I simply ask somebody or I just read and take that what sounds most fun. I have now 2 armor sets, one more Tougness one for more DPS on my main. Exotics, when I just completed my second set they introduced the ascended stuff.

I just don’t like the number crushing and changing everything after a patch because OMG now something else is a little better and all that stuff. It’s just an element that does not have my interest.

So yes I do get the full set (even two when really necessary) but don’t ask me to bother with all the little numbers after that because I rather don’t and only do if I really need to.

It’s just the level of detail with those numbers many people here seem to love so much that I (and many with me) just don’t care about.

I have to agree with Devata on this matter. I don’t like the number crunching either, even though I’m a mathematician. In fact, it’s probably because I’m a mathematician that I find the number crunching so distasteful.

As said, most of the content doesn’t need min/maxed. It’s unnecessary. I run pretty much solo all of the time, so as long as I can take down whatever it is I’m fighting, I’m okay with that. My main is level 80, and he doesn’t have one piece of rare equipment on him. It’s only blues and greens. And it works. I can take down veterans and some champs.

On the off chance I do run with others (the current Living Story content for example), I do try harder, but the gear is the same. And what’s funny is I get knocked on my butt less than most of the players around me. I might do crappy damage, but my crappy damage is better than the downed person next to me.

I will say that I don’t think of food as cheating exactly. I just think it’s not a needed commodity in at least 95% of the game, which makes me forget about it when it could be useful. It’s not being a noob as much as it is being casual about the game I’m playing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Again, you’re referencing the few, not the many. Only a small percentage of people actual posses the intellect to achieve the necessary technology you’re looking at here. Sure, the world is speeding up. We have powerful computers at our finger tips, yet 25% of American children grow up without learning to read. Seems contradictory doesn’kitten

1. Same was in Victorian Era. More people are educated right now then they were back then. Education is becoming more and more important as time goes by. Only very small percentage of people were anywhere near intelligent.
2. Countries by their literacy rate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
I have no idea where you took that 25% from.
3. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090201021247AAistKW
you’re calling people smart, event though most of them did not even have more than the basic understanding of science.

I was thinking virtues along the lines of – patience, tolerance, honesty, kindness, respect, forgiveness, and compassion. Yes, there are still a lot of people that possess these qualities, but in the last 10-15 years not so much.

Common sense… not so common anymore. I mean really, warning labels exist because someone (probably a lot of someones) did exactly what the label says not to do.

I take a look at society, and the way people act and treat each other now vs 10, 15, even 20 years ago (mind you, I’m only 30) and it’s appalling. Its disheartening. It makes me want to walk up to some people, cuff them upside the head, and ask them if their mother raised them in a barn.

You you think that in a world where it was okay to discriminate against black people and women there was more kindness, forgiveness, respect and tolerance?

SkiTz.4590:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

lol. Food viewed as cheating. Now I have seen it all

I assume when you play other games where there are potions, you don’t use any of them either because its cheating?

Forget doing things effeciently, lets take our merry time in this world eh?

Time = money. You are wasting other ppls time when you join a party and not provide 100%. Without buffs, you are helping out the party to maybe 90% of your capacity. You can do better. Use oils/food, theres a reason its in the game. To buff you. If thats cheating, then hell, everything is cheating.

I guess you dont try to stack might either because thats also cheating in your dictonary?

My build is based on building stack. That is a fighting mechanic, not some food you eat to get a boost. I think the whole food mechanic is silly.

Time = money need to do things efficiently.. Well that is indeed what this game is pointing you towards. That is then also my biggest dislike about this game, the endless grind for gold and getting that as fast as possible.

I prefer hard content that is fun in stead of boring gold-grind.

Btw I don’t think I slow a group down a lot. I almost never die and if I do it’s 9 of the 10 times when ressing somebody else. Now dying is a way to slow the group down.

No in many games I do not use potions indeed. Only heal potions / health packs and in cases of need maby something like mana.

But never any of that other stuff, makes it all way to easy and games have already become extremely easy during the last 10 years.

Edit: Oow and about food being cheating.. thats how I feel about it personally. It’s like cheating myself. I don’t consider somebody who uses food to boost a cheater. But also don’t think I am very impressed by somebody who gets a PvP kill when I see he is buffed with food. It increases your stats for really doing nothing. Thats why I see it as a way of “cheating”.

It’s the same as a sporter who uses doping.

You can’t expect everyone to be at a capable skills level, the game consists of all standards of play. Open world events should therefore not require too much skill (and they often don’t). What they need to add is HARD and CHALLENGING content that does require a lot of skill but also gives some top end and exclusive rewards. That way people will want to improve to access these rewards. Sort of like high-level fractals. Without skill you don’t last long there

I am going to play Devil’s Advocate here for a moment and address some of the issues I read in this thread.

Many times, people simply don’t know how to play, that is a given. It doesn’t matter if they’re a long time player or brand new off the shelf.

Posting ideas and suggestions is great, and I do appreciate all the knowledge that is passed along.

BUT>>>>

The tone that so many here and elsewhere have used is trollish, boorish, and elitist. While the intent is good, the words are more likely to make people automatically feel as if those who are trying to help are actually talking down to them.

If someone needs to use food, why not say something like “If you use (insert food here) then you’ll add DPS blahblahblah…” instead of “You should be using food, nub!” Maybe send them one so they can try it for themselves?

How about explaining to a new person how the rally system works? or when to dodge in a given situation?

As far as eles and mesmers disappearing in mid-rez, how many times have we been so intent on what we’re doing that we didn’t realize someone was helping? I’ve done it.

I am not saying that we don’t need to use food, WP when necessary, or learn to dodge at the right moments. I am saying that talking to someone and helping them out will get you a lot better new player than simply yelling at them about things they may not know.

Star Ace said it right when he said, “This thread has that element of ‘I do not mean to be troll, but I’ll troll you anyway’ on the very second paragraph. Unless the OP has no idea how inflammatory the whole thing is and is genuinely being oblivious to it.”

It all boils down to the fact that you can hand someone a plate of gold, but if it’s covered in excrement, nobody’s going to take it.

Dante.8456:

You can’t expect everyone to be at a capable skills level, the game consists of all standards of play. Open world events should therefore not require too much skill (and they often don’t). What they need to add is HARD and CHALLENGING content that does require a lot of skill but also gives some top end and exclusive rewards. That way people will want to improve to access these rewards. Sort of like high-level fractals. Without skill you don’t last long there

Yeah but personally I don’t see maxing out your build as ‘skills’. Skills imho is tactics, even dodging at the correct time and so on. I would love to see more skill based content where the build is not so important. Like SAB and the Wintersday PvP thing but then really in the game.

Even JP’s require a form of skills.

All those numbers take away from the skill and put it into number-crushing. Ever played Wolfenstein ET? Now that is a game that requires some skills but there is no number crushing going on at all.

So, my question is: what can ANet do to naturally teach players to dodge, to eat appropriate food, to set traits to their characters and so on?

For one thing, Anet needs to change the default keybinds.

The default keybind is not usable. It doesn’t say fluid gameplay but scream clunky gameplay all over. To not change the keybind is a huge handicap.

I seen players using the default keybinds, their enemies kill them so easily.

Mirta.5029:

1. Same was in Victorian Era. More people are educated right now then they were back then. Education is becoming more and more important as time goes by. Only very small percentage of people were anywhere near intelligent.
2. Countries by their literacy rate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
I have no idea where you took that 25% from.
3. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090201021247AAistKW
you’re calling people smart, event though most of them did not even have more than the basic understanding of science.

I was avoiding the wiki, since anyone can edit.
http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/11-facts-about-literacy-america
http://www.proliteracy.org/
http://www.literacypartners.org/literacy-in-america

Just a few I’ve browsed.

Just because someone has formal education doesn’t make them intelligent. Just because they don’t doesn’t make them stupid. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating for less formal education by any means; however, there have been many a successful businessman that dropped out and went their own way. Conversely, there are plenty of high school and college graduates that couldn’t find their way out of a paper bag if you held their hand….

You you think that in a world where it was okay to discriminate against black people and women there was more kindness, forgiveness, respect and tolerance?

The colorism was in and of itself its own issue. It’s still its own issue. However, looking beyond that yes, society was extremely different. Again, discounting the colorism issue, yes people had more respect for each other, were polite to one another, etc. Hell, we had more of this 15 years ago even, but as time progresses we lose more and more of it. Children are no longer taught to respect their adults, hell adults don’t even respect other adults anymore. We can completely forget about any type of responsibility or sportsmanship anymore it seems. Perhaps people are still just turning their cheek, ignoring it and waiting for it to ‘go away,’ but issues rarely solve themselves. It can be seen in our online interactions, in our every day real life interactions. But, sort of got off the topic of intelligence here.

Devata.6589:

Yeah but personally I don’t see maxing out your build as ‘skills’. Skills imho is tactics, even dodging at the correct time and so on. I would love to see more skill based content where the build is not so important. Like SAB and the Wintersday PvP thing but then really in the game.

Even JP’s require a form of skills.

This.

The Wintersday PvP event was a blast. In fact, I put off leveling any of my characters because I played the PvP event almost exclusively in the month of December. It was fun, challenging and I didn’t have to worry about getting insulted for wearing poor gear.

The jumping puzzle was also great for the same reason. It was just me, some floating snowflakes, a couple of candy canes and some gifts. It was challenging enough, and I took great satisfaction in completing it.

Gaming moved away from the hardcore concept even though what you are talking about sounds casual. Games nowadays are directed towards the casual player-base who play for fun rather than learning anything, it is a game afterall, you can’t start blaming anyone for being bad!

Anet wanted their world to be explorable, they wanted the players to explore the world themselves and while it is good in theory and I am pretty sure many enjoyed it, they didn’t keep in mind that the current player-base of MMOs won’t bother doing alot of that leading to inexperienced players reaching 80 with zergs, ending up without understanding what the game is about.

I disagree with your punishing strategy though, this hardcore concept is gone and shouldn’t be implemented back, we don’t have to be punished for playing games. It is just like going back to the old-day schools where students gets punished physically, building the fear to not do future mistakes. This method leans towards a dictatorship, something that the modern society will never accept even if it is a simple game.

Anet should have implemented a hint/tips system during the personal story, building your experience and mechanics rather than only leading you to the right maps. It maybe still avaiable to implement this system otherwise but it is too late for the personal story at least, as they would need to totally change it to fit the concept.

Nick.6972:

And it’s wrong to label someone an elitist if they give you an advice of running the zerk gear because it’s the best one in this game.

No. Berserker is a high risk – high reward gear. Someone who is new, inexperienced, a slow learner, uninterested or doesn’t have a fast reaction time should NOT run around in berserket gear because their most often seen foe will be the ground.

Wear berserker if you know what you are doing. Especially when it comes to dodging, blocking and reflecting. Look into other options if you don’t feel like you can pull that off.

As Aleksandr Orlov would say: Simples!

Or they can make difficult content that is instanced so we don’t have to deal with bad players. There will always be bad players but anet seems to enjoy forcing everyone to play together with all this open world zerg train. The reason why nobody leaves the Queensdale zerg train is because most things in this game can be bought with gold

Slowpoke.2749:

Nick.6972:

And it’s wrong to label someone an elitist if they give you an advice of running the zerk gear because it’s the best one in this game.

No. Berserker is a high risk – high reward gear. Someone who is new, inexperienced, a slow learner, uninterested or doesn’t have a fast reaction time should NOT run around in berserket gear because their most often seen foe will be the ground.

Wear berserker if you know what you are doing. Especially when it comes to dodging, blocking and reflecting. Look into other options if you don’t feel like you can pull that off.

As Aleksandr Orlov would say: Simples!

While you have a point, I’ll say this: when I wore sentinel gear and cleric trinkets, I didn’t have to dodge. So I didn’t. When I switched to berserker gear I learned how to be a better player. Training wheels gear, in my case, hindered my progress as a player. I suspect many others are the same way.

This thread sure did do a good job of validating the previous one. Oh, the irony…