Guild Wars 2

This discussion is a bit tldr for me, so I’ll just say this: pleeeeeeaaaaaseeeeeeeee, kittens and unicorns will cry if u don’t bring Cantha back. Factions was my first GW1, and it had the best atmosphere, the best fluff, the best villain – come on, Shiro was A W E S O M E – and, also it rocked.

As we’ve seen many, many times in the past it’s rarely beneficial for a game to take dictations from those removed from the creation of the medium (PR, merketing and their “demographics,” etc) with it’s artistic direction.

I sincerely hope someone of status within NCSoft or ANet is reading this thread and reconsidering the decision.

achensherd.2735:

Believe me, I have no problems with the Asian themes, and I liked the overall culture and atmosphere of Cantha as they were presented in Factions. However, it seemed like the people that have a say in this matter do have a problem with apparently anything Canthan, and so my idea was largely meant to be a way to circumvent the issue, albeit in a drastic/extreme way (that doesn’t necessarily have to be so). I mean, if even some architectural designs would cause them to outright remove an entire district from Divinity’s Reach and replace it with an abyss, a Cantha as we last knew it would seem to be impossible.

Additionally, as far as the lore goes, if Cantha is still as xenophobic as we last heard, Factions 2 would be virtually unplayable by 4 of the 5 currently playable races. There would be no as of yet conceivable way for any new non-Human characters to be created there, and any non-Human Tyrian characters wouldn’t be allowed in.

As for the whole Tengu Domination thing, I don’t mean I would want Cantha to be infested with them, just that they’d be a significant part of a new multi-racial Canthan nation, since they seemed to be the most organized of the non-Human races in Factions. It would make more sense to me than the Naga doing the same.

And no, I don’t mean wipe out all of the Asian themes from Cantha, I mean allowing it to reboot in such a way that the Asian censors would allow it to exist.

Like I said, I like some of those ideas and I am definitely all for a strong Tengu presence in Cantha. I would really love to play a role in making that happen as a player though. And all I am saying instead of it already being there I can see a great opportunity to involve the players in a major historical moment in the Tyrian timeline, I would like to be part of bringing both Cantha & the Tengu back together and bringing them both into the bigger picture with the rest of the cultures. You are right, if Cantha is as Xenophobic as it was before, it would pose a problem for many of the current races we do have but I don’t think that renders it unplayable for them, the non-human races may be greeted with more prejudice than humans are but I don’t think it eliminates it as a possibility. It was really the Emperor who was truly Xenophobic at the time, and not most the people. The Tengu and others were there before, along with the human Canthan’s and the last known Emperor was the one who ordered non-humans out, and when he did that a lot of Canthan human’s left as well and sought refuge in Kryta. It’s been 250 years and it may not have much Xenophobia left, if any and whoever took the throne after the last known Emperor (if anyone) could have made reforms and there would probably have been several new leaders since him. For all we know they allowed non-humans back in at some point, but since they’ve isolated themselves from the other half of the world we probably wouldn’t even be aware of that happening since the Tengu we do get opportunities to speak to haven’t heard much of anything from a lot of their families. So there is just a world of opportunity’s to bring Cantha back without it being negative, and keeping most of it’s original structure that would be received positively by who or what ever made an issue out of it in the 1st place..Like Josh said, for all we know it wasn’t even as big a deal as it sounded, or if whoever it was even works there anymore since it was a long time ago.

Factions was my favorite expansion. I loved Cantha. I hope they bring it back.

From what I’ve seen in GW2 new expansions (and don’t quote me on this, it’s totally my assumption xD) expansions are most likely to be dragon-based. We have dealt with one dragon, there are more still at large. And from what I’ve seen in game, Jormag, after Zhaitan is the most detailed and i can only see him being the next in line. As for Cantha and Elona, well Kralkatorrik resides in the Crystal Desert, pretty close to the border with Elona, so some of the lore from there will surely be put in during that conflict (I would love nothing more than to visit Vabbi once again xD ), and for Cantha the Deep Sea Dragon to me doesn’t have any other obvious location to be put in (Primordrus has a fiery theme so i can assume it to be on the Ring of Fire).

But then again, this may all be just my hopes of seeing the Jade Sea, or the Petrified Forest again…

Oh and I totally don’t know how this is doable but MARGONITES. PRETTY PLEASE

Dessan.9420:

I’ll just say this: pleeeeeeaaaaaseeeeeeeee, kittens and unicorns will cry if u don’t bring Cantha back.

I have to quote this. Totally true.

Charons.6037:

From what I’ve seen in GW2 new expansions (and don’t quote me on this, it’s totally my assumption xD) expansions are most likely to be dragon-based. We have dealt with one dragon, there are more still at large. And from what I’ve seen in game, Jormag, after Zhaitan is the most detailed and i can only see him being the next in line. As for Cantha and Elona, well Kralkatorrik resides in the Crystal Desert, pretty close to the border with Elona, so some of the lore from there will surely be put in during that conflict (I would love nothing more than to visit Vabbi once again xD ), and for Cantha the Deep Sea Dragon to me doesn’t have any other obvious location to be put in (Primordrus has a fiery theme so i can assume it to be on the Ring of Fire).

But then again, this may all be just my hopes of seeing the Jade Sea, or the Petrified Forest again…

Oh and I totally don’t know how this is doable but MARGONITES. PRETTY PLEASE

Primordius was under the Central Transfer Chamber in GW1 which is in the Shiverpeaks… He has tunnels going all through the depths of Tyria but I’m unsure if he is small/mobile enough to travel through them.
While it’s possible he might be on the Ring of Fire Island chain I definitely wouldn’t say it’s certain or anything. Especially with all the Destroyer stuff going on in Kryta.

Charons.6037:

Dessan.9420:

I’ll just say this: pleeeeeeaaaaaseeeeeeeee, kittens and unicorns will cry if u don’t bring Cantha back.

I have to quote this. Totally true.

me tooooo….hopefully we don’t have to bring that to the next level!

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Especially with all the Destroyer stuff going on in Kryta.

What do you mean? I don’t see any difference between the destroyers attacking Kryta or Maguuma or even the Shiverpeaks, there is about 1 renown heart area they are involved in in each of those, save for an event or two (most of what I’ve seen is in a dredge cave, pretty sure it’s Shiverpeaks) so it’s safe to say that they are equally spread on those 3 areas.

As for the Central Transfer Chamber/Depths of Tyria thing happening again… maybe you are right, this just makes more sense to me atmosphere-wise, even though it may be incorrect lore-wise. Dragons have been seen to move large distances, so it’s not totally ruled out, but then again, some appear to be very inert… don’t take anything i say for granted though xD

Charons.6037:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Especially with all the Destroyer stuff going on in Kryta.

What do you mean? I don’t see any difference between the destroyers attacking Kryta or Maguuma or even the Shiverpeaks, there is about 1 renown heart area they are involved in in each of those, save for an event or two (most of what I’ve seen is in a dredge cave, pretty sure it’s Shiverpeaks) so it’s safe to say that they are equally spread on those 3 areas.

As for the Central Transfer Chamber/Depths of Tyria thing happening again… maybe you are right, this just makes more sense to me atmosphere-wise, even though it may be incorrect lore-wise. Dragons have been seen to move large distances, so it’s not totally ruled out, but then again, some appear to be very inert… don’t take anything i say for granted though xD

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying that I think it would be odd. That is a large distance to move underground without causing any really really bad earthquakes xD.
Also, there is a portal to the Foundry of Failed creations on the Ring of Fire Island chain (The Door of Komalie) which exists inside the mists in the Realm of Torment, which is not the Redeemed Realm where Kormir resides. We know that the dragons can’t enter the mists and it would seem really weird to me if Primordius decided to hang out on the doorstep of one of the gods. Of course all of this is subject to interpretation and opinion and this is just mine xD.

Josh Foreman.8250:

kineticdamage.6279:

Pure target audience strategy. They saw how westerners rejected Asian elements during Mists of Pandaria development, so they took it as a business rule and wanted to surf on the rejection. That is speculation of course, but it is so obvious …

That’s not what happened. This went down long before anyone even know MOP was coming. It was simply a cultural consideration.

Then what that means is that the ones who made this call clearly did not pay attention to or understand the scope of GW1.

The idea of removing what is a VERY integral part of the GW story is pure foolishness.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Cantha was my favorite GW1 region to work on. And I worked on every GW release. I know a lot of the dev team loved it and would love to revisit it. I kinda agree with critickitten about the negative aspect of tight corridors. Most of that came from hitting technological limits while trying to keep the epic quality of the concept art. I think we could do some really amazing things with those themes in our new engine. Certainly nothing is ruled out. I certainly encourage anyone to express your desire for a Cantha region in GW2 in a positive and friendly way. It could be years away, but it’s worth asking for.

well without scrolling through all the posts (sry in advance if someone has said this ;-D ) When GW2 first came out and i saw we were how we were in prophecies (with a mix of EOTN) , and reading how the last emperor conquered the luxons and Kurzicks and pulled them back into the Empire and banished any non human , i started thinking of ways to introduce Cantha into GW2 , say after the elder dragons are defeated , news finally reaches Tyria (LA or Divinity , whichever ;-D ) about cantha needing some kind of help (from who or what will remain a mystery for now ;-) ) , the Tengu and the rest of the races of Tyria (any that might get introduced before then? =D ) will amass a fleet of ships , and as your first entry into there its sort of a world dynamic event , players on boats , mounting any cannons to fight some enemy fleet / capture some kind of docks. And further push in , helping friendly canthans (maybe an emperor has become corrupt by some evil force like how the plague worked in GW1?) , where this main enemy force is or where forces of tyria land at will remain a mystery for now. Just some thoughts of ways to introduce it , i would LOVE to see cantha in GW2 settings…..love to visit the jade sea again ;-)

Darque Intent.1674:

I remember reading a little while back how a lawyer was trying to sue the makers of Kain and Lynch on the basis of defamation of the Chinese people. This might have something to do with it, though I’ve never thought to go and see what came of it.

Or maybe it has something to do with the amount of spirits and monsters all cultures have and trying to blend them together without offending people who are looking to take offence, could be difficult. Perhaps also why the “Gods” have gone a bit quiet lately.

I’m not really into spirits and gods outside of virtual worlds, but I do enjoy them when they’re there, generally. And it would be a shame if creators felt inhibited writting things like that in on the basis that it reminded someone of something like that and didn’t think it was appropriate, instead of seeing it as fantasy borrowing from fable. Though none of this may have anything to do with the whys of the matter.

that might make sense if every in-game holdiay wasn’t based around the christian holidays (christmas, halloween and soon valentine’s day)

Darque Intent.1674:

I remember reading a little while back how a lawyer was trying to sue the makers of Kain and Lynch on the basis of defamation of the Chinese people. This might have something to do with it, though I’ve never thought to go and see what came of it.

Or maybe it has something to do with the amount of spirits and monsters all cultures have and trying to blend them together without offending people who are looking to take offence, could be difficult. Perhaps also why the “Gods” have gone a bit quiet lately.

I’m not really into spirits and gods outside of virtual worlds, but I do enjoy them when they’re there, generally. And it would be a shame if creators felt inhibited writting things like that in on the basis that it reminded someone of something like that and didn’t think it was appropriate, instead of seeing it as fantasy borrowing from fable. Though none of this may have anything to do with the whys of the matter.

and thats the thing , people are WAY too sensitive about games…..i mean kitten its a game , its not real , its not SUPPOSED to be correct in almost any form , political , spiritual , or otherwise. Its there for entertainment purposes , if it bothers you THAT badly dont play it? as much as i love GW i would never take it that seriously , and to rule out the cantha theme out for some silly reason cause someone gets offended ruins the diversity……people come in all shapes sizes and colors , why should one be ruled out?

vespers.1759:

Darque Intent.1674:

I remember reading a little while back how a lawyer was trying to sue the makers of Kain and Lynch on the basis of defamation of the Chinese people. This might have something to do with it, though I’ve never thought to go and see what came of it.

Or maybe it has something to do with the amount of spirits and monsters all cultures have and trying to blend them together without offending people who are looking to take offence, could be difficult. Perhaps also why the “Gods” have gone a bit quiet lately.

I’m not really into spirits and gods outside of virtual worlds, but I do enjoy them when they’re there, generally. And it would be a shame if creators felt inhibited writting things like that in on the basis that it reminded someone of something like that and didn’t think it was appropriate, instead of seeing it as fantasy borrowing from fable. Though none of this may have anything to do with the whys of the matter.

that might make sense if every in-game holdiay wasn’t based around the christian holidays (christmas, halloween and soon valentine’s day)

Pretty much all presently known mythologies can all be traced to one origin. Most of the stories from all cultures are basically the same theme told with slight variations that could have been attributed to creative freedom of the tellers or translation errors.

So called “Christian” holidays ALL have non-Christian origins. In fact, as far as mythological studies are concerned, Christianity is simply too young to have any significant contributions at all. Look up the Sumerians and you may be closer to the source.

Heinel.6548:

vespers.1759:

Darque Intent.1674:

I remember reading a little while back how a lawyer was trying to sue the makers of Kain and Lynch on the basis of defamation of the Chinese people. This might have something to do with it, though I’ve never thought to go and see what came of it.

Or maybe it has something to do with the amount of spirits and monsters all cultures have and trying to blend them together without offending people who are looking to take offence, could be difficult. Perhaps also why the “Gods” have gone a bit quiet lately.

I’m not really into spirits and gods outside of virtual worlds, but I do enjoy them when they’re there, generally. And it would be a shame if creators felt inhibited writting things like that in on the basis that it reminded someone of something like that and didn’t think it was appropriate, instead of seeing it as fantasy borrowing from fable. Though none of this may have anything to do with the whys of the matter.

that might make sense if every in-game holdiay wasn’t based around the christian holidays (christmas, halloween and soon valentine’s day)

Pretty much all presently known mythologies can all be traced to one origin. Most of the stories from all cultures are basically the same theme told with slight variations that could have been attributed to creative freedom of the tellers or translation errors.

So called “Christian” holidays ALL have non-Christian origins. In fact, as far as mythological studies are concerned, Christianity is simply too young to have any significant contributions at all. Look up the Sumerians and you may be closer to the source.

Which is why Anet needs to make Cantha for GW2

Since there will be no Cantha, does that mean there will never be a Canthan New Year

I really wanted to experience the Canthan New Year.

And if …
And if Cantha was a problem with the last dragon …
Kryta, strong heroes become an ally had to learn the fabulous combatre. Force open the doors to racial saving!
Accept other races, for they can help, but still griping!

it would be perfect to return to Cantha!

Heinel.6548:

vespers.1759:

Darque Intent.1674:

I remember reading a little while back how a lawyer was trying to sue the makers of Kain and Lynch on the basis of defamation of the Chinese people. This might have something to do with it, though I’ve never thought to go and see what came of it.

Or maybe it has something to do with the amount of spirits and monsters all cultures have and trying to blend them together without offending people who are looking to take offence, could be difficult. Perhaps also why the “Gods” have gone a bit quiet lately.

I’m not really into spirits and gods outside of virtual worlds, but I do enjoy them when they’re there, generally. And it would be a shame if creators felt inhibited writting things like that in on the basis that it reminded someone of something like that and didn’t think it was appropriate, instead of seeing it as fantasy borrowing from fable. Though none of this may have anything to do with the whys of the matter.

that might make sense if every in-game holdiay wasn’t based around the christian holidays (christmas, halloween and soon valentine’s day)

Pretty much all presently known mythologies can all be traced to one origin. Most of the stories from all cultures are basically the same theme told with slight variations that could have been attributed to creative freedom of the tellers or translation errors.

So called “Christian” holidays ALL have non-Christian origins. In fact, as far as mythological studies are concerned, Christianity is simply too young to have any significant contributions at all. Look up the Sumerians and you may be closer to the source.

this is just wrong.

vespers.1759:

Heinel.6548:

vespers.1759:

Darque Intent.1674:

I remember reading a little while back how a lawyer was trying to sue the makers of Kain and Lynch on the basis of defamation of the Chinese people. This might have something to do with it, though I’ve never thought to go and see what came of it.

Or maybe it has something to do with the amount of spirits and monsters all cultures have and trying to blend them together without offending people who are looking to take offence, could be difficult. Perhaps also why the “Gods” have gone a bit quiet lately.

I’m not really into spirits and gods outside of virtual worlds, but I do enjoy them when they’re there, generally. And it would be a shame if creators felt inhibited writting things like that in on the basis that it reminded someone of something like that and didn’t think it was appropriate, instead of seeing it as fantasy borrowing from fable. Though none of this may have anything to do with the whys of the matter.

that might make sense if every in-game holdiay wasn’t based around the christian holidays (christmas, halloween and soon valentine’s day)

Pretty much all presently known mythologies can all be traced to one origin. Most of the stories from all cultures are basically the same theme told with slight variations that could have been attributed to creative freedom of the tellers or translation errors.

So called “Christian” holidays ALL have non-Christian origins. In fact, as far as mythological studies are concerned, Christianity is simply too young to have any significant contributions at all. Look up the Sumerians and you may be closer to the source.

this is just wrong.

It’s half wrong. Not everything can be traced back to one source. That said, all Christian holidays do have non-Christian roots. Atually, turning those holidays like Easter, Samhain (Hallowe’en) and the Winter Solstice into Christian holidays was one of the ways the young Christian church was able to spread itself culturally. That isn’t to say there’s no value in the meanings attributed to them through Christianity, just that most of the traditions (decorated trees, trick-or-treating, donning scary masks and costumes, wrapped gifts, the ‘honouring’ of fertility symbols such as eggs and rabbits etc.) didn’t stem from Christianity and thus, can be ported into a fictional setting without any Christian meanings attached.

The holidays in GW2 are predominantly secular. Even within the world of GW2. In fact, back during the era of GW1, Wintersday was particularly religious and focused on a seasonal conflict between Grenth and Dwayna. I was surprised that so few humans actually comented on the secularisation (and commercialisation, ta, Tixx) of Wintersday.

i support this topic. New options for armor/weapon skins please!

The whole idea of someone actually being offended/bothered by the architecture and NPC names in Cantha just seems completely absurd to me. I find it hard to believe that no one in X Asian culture/language has a name originating from Y Asian culture/language. I’m not saying it has to be something common, but to see it in a game and think “this is an outrage, it could never happen in the real world” is pushing it, in my opinion. Should I be offended if I see an NPC with a clearly English name talking to one with a cleary French name? What if I change my language options, and now have both of these NPCs speaking Spanish?

If Cantha is added with only a singular cultural influence, these same people will likely be offended because their culture was not the chosen one. Maybe the answer is to make individual towns/zones/districts have their own cultural styles. Cantha already had this with the architectural differences between Shing Jea, Kainging, Echovald, and Jade Sea. Even under a unified Emperial banner, it can be expected for each region’s population to retain some of their own distinct styles.

In the end, my (perhaps harsh) view is that some people are just determined to be offended by just about everything, and will go to great lengths to make sure everyone else knows this. I can understand this for real-world situtations, or in even in fictional ones where the setting is intended to represent the real world. But in a game set in a purely fictional world, with dragons and magic everywhere, it just seems silly to insist on such cultural “accuracy”.

I think anyone taking offense to Cantha needs to step back and look at a few things

1 – Tyria is not Earth, it is a completley fictional world that takes thematic influences from the real world
2 – Cantha is not your, or any other, nation/culture, it is a nation in Guild Wars that resembles various regions of Asia
3 – The names/styles of NPCs/locations are not Japanese/Chinese/etc, they are Canthan
4 – Guild Wars 2 is a video game, it is not intended to acurrately respresent anything from the real world, even if influenced by it. If a Mayan-ish temple looks nice next to a German-ish castle, so be it.

mrstealth.6701:

The whole idea of someone actually being offended/bothered by the architecture and NPC names in Cantha just seems completely absurd to me.

This 100%. People complaining about Canthan people having names from various origins, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, seems a little strange. Names such as Logan and Caudecus are certainly not of the same origin and yet we find them together in Kryta. Is that really so unbelievable? Am I going to get upset about it since I’m European? Only if I’m a complete idiot.

Bring back Cantha! Make the entire continent one huge tight corridor multi-level maze. Like some demented M.C. Eshcher painting!

Invictus.1503:

Gehenna.3625:

I dunno what to believe.

Anet said from the start they didn’t want to expand to Cantha and Elona again because it spread the player base out too much.

They said from the start that they would never go back to Cantha or Elona in GW2, so it might still happen.

I don’t remember this being said at all. Not saying it wasn’t, but can you present a source?

No this is from years ago, when they just announced GW2 was coming. They said a lot of things in the first few years after that announcement that are no longer true.

In the discussions we had back then the developers wanted to progress from GW1. They saw they made a big success and wanted a new platform to expand upon. Again, that’s what they were saying then. The reality is that GW2 is completely different from GW1. Even though you might like both games, nobody can pretend that GW2 is really an expansion on or continuation of GW1. GW2 is simply too different.

One of the issues at the time was that people felt everybody was getting way too spread out over the 3 continents back then. Anet’s response then was that in GW2 they were not going to do expansions with new continents again but focus on Tyria instead and not spread people out again. The fact that there are still a lot of uncovered zones in Tyria could support that.

However, if you compare Anet’s style with that of say 6 years ago, it’s a completely different company. That’s why I expect that also here they may have changed their minds.

Truth is that people are too spread out over Tyria as it is because they made too many leveling zones to begin with and adding more continents will only make things worse. But it may work from a sales point of view. But try finding sources back from 4-5 years ago. It’s too much work just to prove that point.

But I do distinctly remember the discussion at the time about this point and clearly they said they wouldn’t do that again. What can I say? If you want to know what Anet’s going to do in the next two years, basically take what they said they weren’t gonna do in the last year or so and that’s exactly what they will do. It might not even be intentional but that’s my belief on that.

Still, I would think it smarter not to release those continents and perhaps Anet will get one right. As much as I liked Cantha and Elona, it wouldn’t bring me back to GW2 because the world is already way too big as it is.

For people just jumping into this thread, here’s a breakdown of accurate info we actually know from devs:

1. Red posts in this thread. Scan through and check out Josh Foreman’s posts here.

2. This interview with Josh. Possibly the original source for Edit:some of what OP is talking about?
Start listening around 1:41 and play to the end. Josh explains why the devs were forced to remove the Canthan District of Divinity’s Reach.

Still trying to track down the “keep it universal” quote. OP and others, we would love to know where you read this, please share. Anyone else with sources, please cite them for us here in the thread!

Please ArenaNet, please add Cantha back to the world of Guild Wars 2. I loved that game, I loved the Assassin class, the massive city, the lore, everything. I’ve even started to have dreams about what Cantha would be like (As well as Elona, but another time.) with 250+ years gone by! Here is one of my Insane ideas for a Xpac plot even! :P

(There is a Too Long; Didn’t Read summery at the bottom.)

Months after Zhitan’s fall, his army crumbles, and the Corsair ships under his command sink. The blockaid to the south is broken. Lions Arch sends out a few brave souls funded by Kryta and the Captians Council to re-discover Tyria. Months pass, and pass, and pass. No ships return, no messages in bottles, nothing. Then, suddenly it’s a foggy morning in Lions Arch, fishermen set out on there boats to catch Thundershrimp and other Sealife for the markets. Then a sight breaks the fog. A large ship, massive in scope, adorned in colors of Crimzion and Gold. It’s sailes raised high with the image of a serpentine dragon flying through the clouds. Soon, the fog breaks, more and more ships appear. The same color patterns, some small, some large, but none equal to the scale of the first ship. The fishermen look upon the fleet in awe, Lions Arch gets wind of this, guards move to awaken Magnus and the other Captians. Humanity is not wiped out, The Dragon Empire survives on. However, the joy is soon halted as the ships stop and make hard port. Cannons pop out of the wooden frames, and suddenly Lions Arch is battered with cannon fire. Confusion rakes the streets, buildings collapse, people eunning in a panic. Whats going on? Why would the Dragon Empire move to attack? Soon, small ships move upon land, droping off warriors, assassins, and archers. They all run in and start slaughtering the non-human citizens of the city, and anyone who protects them. The fighting is long and brutal, the three orders are called in, as well as the Seraph. Eventuly The Lion Guard mobalizes there ships and takes the fight to sea. Soon, Lions Arch gets thew upper hand, they push back the invaders and destrpoy many ships in the Fleet, victory seems imminent, and Prisoners have been taken, maby they can explane why Cantha would be so hasty to attack? Suddenly, the unthinkable happens. As the Dragon Fleet moves back, a wide gap in the fighting forms. Somthing bursts up from under the water, a terrifying roar breaks the commotion, silencing everything. Before the Dragon Empires fleets, a real dragon floats ontop of the water. The beast roars again and the water around him molds into blobus creatures, they swim over and onto the water, attacking the Defenders, while the dragon spreads it’s massive wings and flies into the air, forming a tidle wave and sinking half the Lions Arch ships. It only takes moments for people to realize what the Dragon is, the Deep Sea Dragon. However, it just seems to be focusing on Lions Arch and it’s defenders, not the Dragon Empire? The fighting continues, the Dragon Empires fleet lands more soldiers on the city, and they start fighting alongside the Dragons minions! The battle continues into the night and then even next day, eventuly, the Deep Sea Dragon flees, and the Fleet c ontinues on with it, the Minions die out, and Survivors are captured. PoW’s are interrigated within Lions Arch, and chilling information is revealed: The current Emperor of Cantha has decreed his Empire the saviors of Tyira, he is sickend by how far Humanity has fallen. The Dragon Empire will stop at nothing to reclaim all of Tyria for Humanity, and set the Empire as the global powerhouse. Only then shall the gods return, and bless the world.As the information comes to light, more questions are asked. Most notibly why a Elder Dragon would side with the Empire. The PoW’s only state that it is the will of the Emperor and the gods that controlls the beast. So is this true? Is it true the Dragon Empire found a way to enslave a Elder Dragon to there will, or is it the other way around. And is the Elder Dragon using the Empire to further it’s own primal goals….

TL;DR: Cantha is still alive, and they want to exterminate all the non-humans on Tyria. Even have The Deep Sea Dragon to aid them in this, but is it the Dragon that serves them, or the other way around?

These topics and conversations, about Anet ignoring the core and lore of Guild Wars for the sake of making NcSoft happy makes me not want to spend money on the game. I have given Anet plenty of dollars, Collectors Edition and thousands of gems bought with cash already.

Was looking forward to seeing the new Cantha and maybe Tengu becoming a playable race. The world we already have was fun finding all the locations and seeing what had become of them. This had me feel the sense of this was more then just a game to suck money out of me.

Can’t have anything Asian in the game? Tyria is a planet, it is not earth, this is a fantasy world. We can’t have cool and nice things because the ignorance and the intolerance of people on our planet can dictate to and force their will on others. While the people who are open to others opinions let ignorance and the intolerance mind set seep in because most people listen to the opinions no matter how out there they are.
We can listen to people who can not stand anything different or easily offended by things. But the moment you start letting these people control your life and decision making of what is right, that is when everyone looses.

We might just loose Cantha because of it.

South Asia has beautiful lands and beautiful people to deny the culture is robbing the game of so much potential.

I would also love to see cantha back. Not just Kaineng and Shin Jea.
The jade sea and the petrified forest really were my favorite places in the game.

Leohan.1096:

These topics and conversations, about Anet ignoring the core and lore of Guild Wars for the sake of making NcSoft happy makes me not want to spend money on the game. I have given Anet plenty of dollars, Collectors Edition and thousands of gems bought with cash already.

I really encourage everyone posting to read the dev responses we’ve gotten in this very thread from Josh Foreman. The thought of not having Cantha back makes me want to cry, I am totally with you. But I think we all have a tendency to react to the shocking news without having a chance to look at the facts we have learned about the situation.

What we know:
- From Josh’s interview – Devs had to remove the Canthan sector of Divinity’s Reach at the last minute. They received negative feedback from Asia due to the mixture of Chinese and Korean architecture styles.
- From Josh’s posts here: Cantha could be years away (us: Nooo! ), but there are designers at Anet who would love to work on it again. NCSoft does give them a remarkable amount of creative freedom and when they approach Canthan design again, who knows? Maybe it won’t be a problem, or maybe there will be design tweaks that can be made so that they are allowed to include Cantha.
- From a YouTube comment by someone claiming to have had a conversation with a dev in-game, for which we have no source: "NCsoft was firm in its decision to stay away from “Asian” themes and keep it “universal.” I’m not getting on OP’s case here for quoting this—I’m glad we’re having this discussion, and major props to OP for starting this thread! I’m just saying, we should take what is said in red posts and interviews over unsubstantiated comments on YouTube, referring to conversations with devs that we can’t document!

If we are going to pursue a successful campaign to get Cantha back, we need to arm ourselves with the facts!

Iris.5918:

I would also love to see cantha back. Not just Kaineng and Shin Jea.
The jade sea and the petrified forest really were my favorite places in the game.

Yeah we’re sort of campaigning for the whole thing, all of Cantha!

I’d wager the reason why any company would try to avoid an Oriental theme campaigned simply to avoid the stigma of becoming an over-generalization and yet another example of Western Orientalism in a market that is oversaturated with just that. It becomes too quick and easy to create the Orient as an exotic Other to provide for consumers seeking something a bit different than homogenized Western Culture.

Hell, there’s even a TV Tropes entry for it. So considering how Anet has been making strives to differentiate themselves via intelligent cultural discourse (unobtrussive homosexual relationships, race politics, theological exploartion), I can see how NCsoft would be hesitant to throw that away by having a potentially marring the hard work of everyone involved by making a potentially overgeneralized Asian themed content. The worse part is, I often see these same values presented whenever discussing the Tengu as a playable race, which ironically would be even more problematic because now the Tengu is not just an example of Orientalism but by being another species than human they become the perfect Other.

Though I’d love to go back to the sprawling city streets of Cantha City and to walk along the stone surface of the Jade Sea, or even to punt a tree hugging Kurzik, I think that at the moment there’s risk management that has to be taken into account. If Anet does return to Cantha, I want them to do it right.

The issue is? This part of Tyria has already been established as existing in Lore , anyone making complaints against it at this point is FAR too late and just seeking attention. I know someone tried saying they might have avoided it cause of MoP and ppl hating that? That is innaccurate , people hated the panda thing cause of a certain other panda (you know who im talking about) , BUT they were already part of warcraft lore. The issue is , people are just taking things that are part of a game way too seriously like its real life serious , when this is not the case. Lore has already been established and unless there was some kind of event that sunk the whole of cantha like orr , its still there , whether people like to complain about it or not , its there.

Enundr.9305:

The issue is? This part of Tyria has already been established as existing in Lore , anyone making complaints against it at this point is FAR too late and just seeking attention. I know someone tried saying they might have avoided it cause of MoP and ppl hating that? That is innaccurate , people hated the panda thing cause of a certain other panda (you know who im talking about) , BUT they were already part of warcraft lore. The issue is , people are just taking things that are part of a game way too seriously like its real life serious , when this is not the case. Lore has already been established and unless there was some kind of event that sunk the whole of cantha like orr , its still there , whether people like to complain about it or not , its there.

They can be very sensitive about mixing certain things between cultures over there. For a long time, and even today China, Korea and Japan are rivals and China takes that very seriously…Japan has sort of lightened up over the years with it and I have no idea where Korea stands on it..I don’t think it’s a matter of it already being established as it is China (and possibly Korea) prefer more uniform design and it might be something they don’t comprehend or relate to very well if you mix things like names together, and architecture.

Shanna.4762:

Enundr.9305:

The issue is? This part of Tyria has already been established as existing in Lore , anyone making complaints against it at this point is FAR too late and just seeking attention. I know someone tried saying they might have avoided it cause of MoP and ppl hating that? That is innaccurate , people hated the panda thing cause of a certain other panda (you know who im talking about) , BUT they were already part of warcraft lore. The issue is , people are just taking things that are part of a game way too seriously like its real life serious , when this is not the case. Lore has already been established and unless there was some kind of event that sunk the whole of cantha like orr , its still there , whether people like to complain about it or not , its there.

They can be very sensitive about mixing certain things between cultures over there. For a long time, and even today China, Korea and Japan are rivals and China takes that very seriously…Japan has sort of lightened up over the years with it and I have no idea where Korea stands on it..I don’t think it’s a matter of it already being established as it is China (and possibly Korea) prefer more uniform design and it might be something they don’t comprehend or relate to very well if you mix things like names together, and architecture.

maybe , but its still just a game. its not targeting any culture in any offensive way. its there to paint a fictional story not based on this world or any real events.

Enundr.9305:

Shanna.4762:

Enundr.9305:

The issue is? This part of Tyria has already been established as existing in Lore , anyone making complaints against it at this point is FAR too late and just seeking attention. I know someone tried saying they might have avoided it cause of MoP and ppl hating that? That is innaccurate , people hated the panda thing cause of a certain other panda (you know who im talking about) , BUT they were already part of warcraft lore. The issue is , people are just taking things that are part of a game way too seriously like its real life serious , when this is not the case. Lore has already been established and unless there was some kind of event that sunk the whole of cantha like orr , its still there , whether people like to complain about it or not , its there.

They can be very sensitive about mixing certain things between cultures over there. For a long time, and even today China, Korea and Japan are rivals and China takes that very seriously…Japan has sort of lightened up over the years with it and I have no idea where Korea stands on it..I don’t think it’s a matter of it already being established as it is China (and possibly Korea) prefer more uniform design and it might be something they don’t comprehend or relate to very well if you mix things like names together, and architecture.

maybe , but its still just a game. its not targeting any culture in any offensive way. its there to paint a fictional story not based on this world or any real events.

I agree, that’s my view on it as well. Some of the issue may come from GW1’s political representation with Cantha (poverty, imperialism etc), which they may have taken personally even if it had nothing to do with any issues they have dealt with or are currently dealing with. We have to keep in mind that in western culture fantasy tends to be a sort of mash up between several cultural themes rather than just one and we tend to not really care that much about how we depict our own cultures if it makes for a good story, that might not be how it works over there…The person(s) they spoke to on the issue may just have been really sensitive about that stuff, like Josh said it could be any number of things and might not even really be an issue at all and things could actually be dandy and next time they bring it up the ball could get rolling quickly.

Well, how about the asians who live on the west side of the planet?

I am sure that they would be pleased to have their culture represented in this massive and beautiful game, while the non asians clearly welcome diversity into Tyria.

I am personally offended on behalf of the Asians to have their culture thrown out from the game in scare of offending the few who do not support cultural diversity all across the land.

Lot’s of Asian’s in the west really want Cantha..Many of my friends who are Japanese and Chinese want it really badly.

Shanna.4762:

Enundr.9305:

Shanna.4762:

Enundr.9305:

The issue is? This part of Tyria has already been established as existing in Lore , anyone making complaints against it at this point is FAR too late and just seeking attention. I know someone tried saying they might have avoided it cause of MoP and ppl hating that? That is innaccurate , people hated the panda thing cause of a certain other panda (you know who im talking about) , BUT they were already part of warcraft lore. The issue is , people are just taking things that are part of a game way too seriously like its real life serious , when this is not the case. Lore has already been established and unless there was some kind of event that sunk the whole of cantha like orr , its still there , whether people like to complain about it or not , its there.

They can be very sensitive about mixing certain things between cultures over there. For a long time, and even today China, Korea and Japan are rivals and China takes that very seriously…Japan has sort of lightened up over the years with it and I have no idea where Korea stands on it..I don’t think it’s a matter of it already being established as it is China (and possibly Korea) prefer more uniform design and it might be something they don’t comprehend or relate to very well if you mix things like names together, and architecture.

maybe , but its still just a game. its not targeting any culture in any offensive way. its there to paint a fictional story not based on this world or any real events.

I agree, that’s my view on it as well. Some of the issue may come from GW1’s political representation with Cantha (poverty, imperialism etc), which they may have taken personally even if it had nothing to do with any issues they have dealt with or are currently dealing with. We have to keep in mind that in western culture fantasy tends to be a sort of mash up between several cultural themes rather than just one and we tend to not really care that much about how we depict our own cultures if it makes for a good story, that might not be how it works over there…The person(s) they spoke to on the issue may just have been really sensitive about that stuff, like Josh said it could be any number of things and might not even really be an issue at all and things could actually be dandy and next time they bring it up the ball could get rolling quickly.

hopefully we do get to see it….would be a real shame if we didnt cause someone was being way too sensitive about a VIDEO GAME , prob the only thing that shouldnt be taken seriously , its not like its a bloody / gory game that gets targeted for kids which could draw some concern (like ages 4+ rather then the appopriate M rating those games will have). its just painting a story for the Guild Wars world , thats it. =\

Shenmue – A single player game produced by a Japanese company. The entire story was based in Hong Kong, but every character in the game speaks Japanese. No complains.
Hero Online – An age-old MMO. The story was based in ancient China, but the theme song with vocals are sung in Korean, no complains either.
Blade and Soul – A Korean MMO with a mix of mostly Korean and Chinese cultural elements including architecture, fashion and class abilties. Not a single complaint was made. In fact, both the Koreans and Chinese love it to death.

So who is stopping Cantha from making an appearance in GW2? I certainly do not think it is the playerbase.

I loved Factions, one of the few expansions of MMO’s I actually fully remember. The entire journey alongside the amazing area’s was just awesome.

So I do hope we will see those area’s return.

Josh Foreman.8250:

kineticdamage.6279:

Pure target audience strategy. They saw how westerners rejected Asian elements during Mists of Pandaria development, so they took it as a business rule and wanted to surf on the rejection. That is speculation of course, but it is so obvious …

That’s not what happened. This went down long before anyone even know MOP was coming. It was simply a cultural consideration.

But isn’t culture what makes the GuildWars franchise so entertaining? I’ve seen China done alot but GuildWars made me not despise seeing it + the buildings look cool

Seperate the cultures again. We really need to see some differences and not just large lump. Reminds me of the melting pot really.

PLEASE don’t make GW2 into a melting pot.

The absence of a Canthan district was one of my first big dissapointments of GW2. I I was really looking forward to seeing it in GW2, Factions was far and away my favourite campaign of GW1. I loved the architecture of the buildings, the soundtrack, the exotic feel of the entire campaign. It was a really special part of Tyria that I connected with, something that I never got from Prophecies (I played before Factions, so it’s not just nostalgia), Nightfall or EotN (although EotN had a lot of nostalgia value). Nothing in GW2 has hit that spot for me like Factions did. I really wanted a Canthan district and it’s really disappointing to me that we lost it.

Having said that, I think there are some fantastic opportunities for GW2 to return there in an expansion. I would love for it to be the first expansion, I know we have the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Crystal Desert as more obvious and centralised locations to work with, especially given the immediacy of their conflicts (Jormag and Kralkatorik already have a presence felt in GW2, bringing in more conflicts from lands far away without dealing with them first seems unlikely), but I really think Cantha has a unique opportunity to offer Tyria something we don’t already have, and the creative freedom we could see in re-envisioning Cantha today. It would also tie in nicely with that playable tengu race so many of us want to see. So much of Cantha was left open at the end of GW1 (especially with the cleansing of the afflicted) and the forces at play in Cantha often felt more region specific than human specific (the Jade Wind, the Celestials as opposed to the human gods, the Envoys etc) so to see how that has all changed over time, to shape the land in 250 years, I think that region is incredibly rich in potential for us to cover.

Shiren.9532:

The absence of a Canthan district was one of my first big dissapointments of GW2. I I was really looking forward to seeing it in GW2, Factions was far and away my favourite campaign of GW1. I loved the architecture of the buildings, the soundtrack, the exotic feel of the entire campaign. It was a really special part of Tyria that I connected with, something that I never got from Prophecies (I played before Factions, so it’s not just nostalgia), Nightfall or EotN (although EotN had a lot of nostalgia value). Nothing in GW2 has hit that spot for me like Factions did. I really wanted a Canthan district and it’s really disappointing to me that we lost it.

Having said that, I think there are some fantastic opportunities for GW2 to return there in an expansion. I would love for it to be the first expansion, I know we have the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Crystal Desert as more obvious and centralised locations to work with, especially given the immediacy of their conflicts (Jormag and Kralkatorik already have a presence felt in GW2, bringing in more conflicts from lands far away without dealing with them first seems unlikely), but I really think Cantha has a unique opportunity to offer Tyria something we don’t already have, and the creative freedom we could see in re-envisioning Cantha today. It would also tie in nicely with that playable tengu race so many of us want to see. So much of Cantha was left open at the end of GW1 (especially with the cleansing of the afflicted) and the forces at play in Cantha often felt more region specific than human specific (the Jade Wind, the Celestials as opposed to the human gods, the Envoys etc) so to see how that has all changed over time, to shape the land in 250 years, I think that region is incredibly rich in potential for us to cover.

I have a feeling we’ll be seeing the Canthan district in Divinity’s Reach eventually, or at least more Canthan content in the city somewhere. If we can get Cantha into the game I’m sure we can get a district, although it might not be necessary since Canthan’s would be able to go home at that point, but I’m sure some would like to stay…Definitely interested to see what happens with the Canthan district.

Hated Cantha and i hope it won’t be coming back in gw2

I loved the explorable areas of Cantha, minus the city. I don’t think I ever found someone that enjoyed those areas. Echovald Forest had some of my favorite maps in the game, and I always loved the architecture on Shing Jea Island.

To me, and just about everyone I played with, the storyline was the weakest part of Factions. It just felt like a kungkittenB-movie, largely due to the cutscenes. I guess the actual story wasn’t bad, just the way it was acted out in those scenes. The joke among our group was seeing Shiro as “Master Betty” from the move Kung Pow.

Factions/Cantha is the only reason I have a level 20 character with semi-decent gear in Gw1. Literally had my friend carry me throughout the expansion so that I could experience all the different locations and music. A return to Cantha would solidify my love for this game.

Josh Foreman.8250:

I certainly encourage anyone to express your desire for a Cantha region in GW2 in a positive and friendly way. It could be years away, but it’s worth asking for.

What about an nostalgic and musical way ?
This is my attempt : http://youtu.be/gTSBZstMZss

Sarys.6520:

What about an nostalgic and musical way ?
This is my attempt : http://youtu.be/gTSBZstMZss

Beautiful! Wow, Sarys, thank you so much for sharing your creativity with us! This is awesome!

Nostalgia lump in my throat now..must go play Factions.

The complete disappearance of Cantha makes absolutely no sense historically. Especially considering the “story bridge”: Winds of Change ended in Cantha with huge changes to the Guild Wars 1 world, including the possible melting of the Jade Sea.

Not to be disrespectful, but the Asian community needs to have the stick surgically removed from their hinter regions if they dislike a composite of the Asian world, then they should realize we are not on Earth here. The “white-anglo-saxon” world is also not “culturally sensitive” or even minimally “historically correct” if compared to the history of the planet Earth, but it is correct in the world of Tyria and beyond.

Cantha is either completely underwater if the Jade Sea did melt, or there are some islands of people left, and to be honest, the Luxons, who were masters of sailing solid water, would easily have adapted and survived to a Jade sea that had returned to liquid form.

I could easily see a Cantha Expansion as a water world.