Guild Wars 2

For all we might point out its floors flaws, GW2 is a very good game that does a lot of things right. But the current payment model comes with restrictions on how Anet can operate and what they have to prioritize.

If GW2 went subscription based, do you think it would grow or struggle?

I would leave. The reason i played GW1 for 7 years was because it wasn’t a subscription and for all this games good things, i refuse to pay a sub.

There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.

If it required a subscription to play? I think they would lose a lot of players and therefore a lot of income. The buy-to-play business model is a major selling point for many people. (Me included.)

They could possibly get away with an optional subscription like Elder Scrolls Online has now, but the trouble with that is it either has to be so minor it’s not really worth having (ESO currently IMO) or it’s basically pay-to-win or creating 2nd tier players where those who pay the sub have a big advantage over those who don’t. Which would also be hugely controversial and cause a lot of people to leave.

(Also I think you mean “pointing out it’s flaws”. Pointing out it’s floors would simply be pointing to the surfaces we walk on in-game.)

It’s a one way street. Sub games can go F2P, but it’d be death to try and do the reverse.

I think, over-all, it would be very negative if they introduced a subscription. Maybe if they started the game with a subfee it would work, but as spoilt as we are, I don’t think it would work now.

Personally, I’d leave. For one, I probably couldn’t afford it right now, and secondly, I’d probably leave on principle… subfees are not for me.

Kedarrian.2905:

For all we might point out its floors, GW2 is a very good game that does a lot of things right. But the current payment model comes with restrictions on how Anet can operate and what they have to prioritize.

If GW2 went subscription based, do you think it would grow or struggle?

very unlikely it would improve in the slightest.
They already make as much money as many subscription based games. The earnings have been fairly consistent from quarter to quarter (its not a very spiky graph)
and even with their 250 staff, they apparently struggle with creating content at the pace of Square enix.

thinking of the opposing side, it could be possible that with a different monetary system, they would focus more content on making people want to play the game. But i think that they believe they are already doing that

If GW2 started to require a subscription to play then I would stop playing it… I don’t like feeling like I NEED to play.

And that’s coming from someone that spends $100 a month on gems!

I think it’s better for Guild Wars II to remain like it’s currently.

Tho, I try to support them by purchasing at least 10€ worth of gems each month. Be it exchanged to in-game gold or other purchases.

If it goes sub it would lose players and die if it started as sub it would be a different game probably not (as) theme park and would receive more/better updates. BDO went f2p it became p2w and lost sandbox values, sub has it’s advantages.

They already have the gem store set up as their main source of continual income.

The ONLY way I think people would ever accept a sub fee is if they removed the micro-transactions and allowed the content that was normally acquirable by real money purchases to be available for in-game accomplishments. I imagine this would require quite a bit of restructuring on their part.

If they maintained the micro-transactions in addition to a sub fee, I feel it would really turn people off as they’re essentially “double-dipping” at that point. There’s perhaps a portion of the population that wouldn’t mind, but other would hate having to pay for the privilege to simply play the game, and then more to get certain things via micro-transactions (i.e. skins).

Also, I don’t have any data, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s actually more profitable for them to operate the micro-transactions rather than a sub fee. There’s the concept of “whales”, where a smaller portion of individuals who spend a large amount of money on micro-transactions effectively surpass the amount of money they would end up making by charging everyone a sub fee.

Personally, I’ve always liked the current business model better than a classic sub fee model because I feel like they’re already giving me the privilege to play the game. Then, I can spend money to get more things, even if it’s just skins or little toys or such. The sub fee model restricts the privilege to play the game unless I’m willing to fork over some money, which always makes me feel like I’m only valued because I’ve given them money up front.

Like the earlier poster said, it’s pretty much a one way street. Trying to convert from no sub fee to sub fee in an MMO is tantamount to suicide.

If Anet simply would want to maximise their incomings, they would just have to increase their sale portfolio to become alot broader, than just being that ingame gemstore as the only source of money income mainly from peopel who buy gems, which are a minority compared to the people, which don’t do that.

ANet needs to stat making up a profitable Merchandising Store on their Website also too, where you can buy just things out of their own productions of various cool items and nice decoration stuff that alot of people would love to buy if they just coud do that somewhere.

A sponsored Merchandising Website Store, where people can buy also such special things like gaming Mourses, Gamign Pads, Head Phones ect. in a special GW2 Design.

other typical wanted merchandising articles coudl be sold there then too under their own catagory. Stuff like:

GW2 T-Shirts
GW2 Sweatshirts/Hoodies
GW2 Caps

people will always buy such stuff.
Then there could be the Soundtrack of GW2 on sale, the Artbooks, the various kinds of Plushies from Rytlock over Zojja ect. pp.
They could sell various kinds of awesome Figurines that normally would be found only in collectors editions, but people love to buy these kind of figurines also just simply so.
Im pretty sure there are alot of die hard GW2 fans out there, that would buy from such a website merchandisign store some kind of Tequatl/Shatterer/Claw of Jormag Figurine in a heartbeat, if Anet would sell somethign like that.

if they could find companies, that could profitabliy mass produce such stuff for Anet and therefore maybe also sponsor the website and the game therefore that anet makes also a bit advertising for those producers automatically by selling those products of those producers just under special GW2 design could help Anet alot to make more incomings from more sources, than just only from people buying gems and the main game/ HoT later.

Then again, expansions are another greeat way for income boosts, especialyl if Anet would brign them frequently, like every 2 years an expansion, perhaps even yearly.
Heck, just look at Ubisoft, they bring out yearly one Assassins Creed out after another which basically are always nothign else than expansions to the original games main story, but gameplay wise its nearly everytime nearly the same and people keep on buying these games frequently more than good enough, that US makes always as it looks enough profit from that to keep on making on that tour consistantly new AC games..once the dice rolls, it rolls, if you keep on bringign out quickly enough additions to the original game, especially if they are qualitative very good and try also to improve itself over the time from game to game also too each time.

Another incoming model could be, that they make a Subscription fee, but make it an OPTIONAL ONE, something that you don’t need to have, but works liek some kind of “Premium account Upgrade” , that if you decide to give ANet on a more monthly basis cositantly money, that you get rewarded for that decision with some kind of positive effects for your Account, exactly so how it works for the chinese players.
They can either play the game exactly like we can, or they can choose to make their accounts premium accoutns with an optional subscription fee and get due to that decision some little benefits on their accoutn,s like a permanent gem discount for items in the gem store, free To Friend Waypointing and so on, so all such kind of stuff, that gives a player no advantage over others so that no one can say, with premium account it becomes Pay2Win, you just get visual fluff and thigns, that affect the player in a non competitive way.

But its a matter of mentality, alot of people dislike these kinds of optional subscriotion fees out of fear of P2W finding its ways into the game.
I personally think the option shoudl be there.
It should be everyons free own choice to decide over it, if you want to play GW2 wihout or with an optional subscription fee.

This topic has been dead for 2 years. It’s not really all that fascinating to discuss considering that it’s moot and has been since the dawn of ArenaNet. The first Guild Wars was Buy to play, and I would expect any game in the future that ArenaNet develops to remain buy to play. That’s their market and they have proven to be good at it.

There’s absolutely no reason to change now.

If they suddenly decided you need a subscription to play gw2 I would quit and never look back. That day.

If they started with a subscription that is one thing, but 2+ years in randomly starting one would probably make a large amount of people leave. Just my opinion.

They’d need to give out millions of refunds, as we never purchased a subscription MMO.

If we wanted to pay a fixed monthly rate for a game that we can only play for a few hours a day(assuming we’re not too busy or tired from working) then we would’ve subscribed to WoW.

If profit is an issue, then they should add more meaningful things to the gem store like animations, as opposed to trash like miniatures and wings that don’t work.

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.

WoW, FF14 and SWTOR are all successful. Runescape is also very successful, although some would say it’s a sandbox, I don’t know which it is.

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

Fernling.1729:

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

SWTOR is F2P…

If GW2 went sub, I’d be gone.

GuzziHero.2467:

Fernling.1729:

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

SWTOR is F2P…

If GW2 went sub, I’d be gone.

Read what I quoted.
“There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.”

SWTOR has a sub. It does also have a limited F2P option, but it does have a sub.

Tskales.2804:

They’d need to give out millions of refunds, as we never purchased a subscription MMO.

They wouldn’t have to give any refunds, you gave them permission to start charging in the future when you agreed to the User Agreement.

Unlike GW1, the GW2 box did not guarantee that there would not be a subscription fee in the future. They actually reserved the rights to start charging one in the User Agreement, which everyone agreed to (even though most didn’t bother to read it).

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/
-Section 4.b

Not that I think they would switch to a pure subscription model, they’d lose too many players for it to make any sense. I suspect that they’d be more likely to do a system like ESO, which is basically just the china VIP system that horrified so many NA/EU people when it came out, thinking we’d get it too.

I’d be more than willing to sub to GW2, however I’ve never had a good experience with optional-sub games, the gap between subscribers and non-subscribers is always massive

Kronos.2560:

If they suddenly decided you need a subscription to play gw2 I would quit and never look back. That day.

Yep, and I’d be right behind you.

I’d probably go back to Guild Wars 1, unless that went subscription based as well, then I’d drop the entire franchise.

The European version of the User Agreement has different wording in section 4.b

Gotta love those consumer rights laws in the EU

“If an Account and/or the Service was provided without the requirement of the payment of a recurring fee upon Your acceptance of this agreement and NCSOFT in its discretion decides that access to such Account and/or Service will be subject to a required recurring fee, you may claim a refund under Section 3(d) for the Software.”

Malisane.9461:

The European version of the User Agreement has different wording in section 4.b

Gotta love those consumer rights laws in the EU

“If an Account and/or the Service was provided without the requirement of the payment of a recurring fee upon Your acceptance of this agreement and NCSOFT in its discretion decides that access to such Account and/or Service will be subject to a required recurring fee, you may claim a refund under Section 3(d) for the Software.”

That’s pretty cool. I’m assuming this is different because the US version does not have a similar clause?

I should check if the Aussie one has this clause.

Uninstall and never look back. I wouldn’t ask for a refund, though. I’ve gotten my money’s worth.

It would die. Buy-to-play is the cornerstone of Guild Wars. As much as I love this game, the content produced is not worth a subscription.

Orpheal.8263:

people will always buy such stuff.

It’s a shame that international shipping costs three times more than the already inflated prices of such merchandise, as it really turns away a lot of non-American business. Saying that, we had that kind of store around launch… the stuff’s still about, just no more of it was made and the prints and such were excessively overpriced. I guess it didn’t attract too much business. (Would love to have a Caithe wall scroll and some sylvari themed stuff… would literally have a sylvari room. Don’t judge me!)

If GW2 went sub, I’d leave.

And I wouldn’t log in until they went back to no sub fee.

I don’t like feeling forced to play and I would feel forced to play if there was a subscription fee.

Simple, I would stop playing. It’s the lack of a monthly fee combined with the lack of pay walls that are why I play here than some F2P annoyance.

Kedarrian.2905:

For all we might point out its floors, GW2 is a very good game that does a lot of things right. But the current payment model comes with restrictions on how Anet can operate and what they have to prioritize.

If GW2 went subscription based, do you think it would grow or struggle?

What restrictions? What operation? Where is the prioritize? What do current pay model have to do with any of these? What do current pay model have to do with making the game fun? what do current pay model have to do with making the game challenge?

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”

If Arena net can not solve our problems with the same current payment model they used when created them, how will subscription payment model make any difference? Nothing!

But this is hypothetical because it won’t happen

Same as everyone here. I got burned by bad P2P experiences and honestly I wouldn’t want to pick one up again. Too much money invested in it for no good reason.

Fernling.1729:

GuzziHero.2467:

Fernling.1729:

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

SWTOR is F2P…

If GW2 went sub, I’d be gone.

Read what I quoted.
“There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.”

SWTOR has a sub. It does also have a limited F2P option, but it does have a sub.

Nearly all western MMO that went F2P still have an optional subscription model,
however there is only one left that has no F2P option at all.
And no .. playing from 1-20 for free is not F2P.

Kedarrian.2905:

For all we might point out its floors, GW2 is a very good game that does a lot of things right. But the current payment model comes with restrictions on how Anet can operate and what they have to prioritize.

If GW2 went subscription based, do you think it would grow or struggle?

It would fail quickly. No-subscription is an important attraction for GW2, especially for players who are already subscribed to other MMOs.

Further, it would be horribly expensive. Tons of things would need to change in the game beforehand. So instead of removing restrictions, it would add a whole lot of new ones, at least in the beginning. This would have to happen without any type of assurance that the game would be more profitable in the long run.

Ultimately, it might actually be cheaper for ANet to launch a new game using the same engine.

Beldin.5498:

Fernling.1729:

GuzziHero.2467:

Fernling.1729:

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

SWTOR is F2P…

If GW2 went sub, I’d be gone.

Read what I quoted.
“There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.”

SWTOR has a sub. It does also have a limited F2P option, but it does have a sub.

Nearly all western MMO that went F2P still have an optional subscription model,
however there is only one left that has no F2P option at all.
And no .. playing from 1-20 for free is not F2P.

Not sure what this has to do with what I was saying. I was responding to a single post where someone was claiming that only a single mmorpg with a sub is currently successful, which is false, I listed several.

Why do you pretend that FF14 doesn’t exist? FF14 not only exists, but it just so happens to be arguably the 2nd most successful mmorpg on the market.

Fernling.1729:

Not sure what this has to do with what I was saying. I was responding to a single post where someone was claiming that only a single mmorpg with a sub is currently successful, which is false.

Why do you pretend that FF14 doesn’t exist? FF14 not only exists, but it just so happens to be arguably the 2nd most successful mmorpg on the market.

wondering what kind of player base it would have if it was B2P though. I was very tempted to pick it up, however I would be playing too casually to justify the sub, especially having in mind that mostly I would just want to level up and see what their world is about. My friends said to still go for it, as I would get 30 free days, but then I would feel pressured to play it till full before the days are up. And even if I would love it and play it enough to justify the sub, there would be that thought in the back of my head that maybe I’m not playing it enough.

Fernling.1729:

Beldin.5498:

Fernling.1729:

GuzziHero.2467:

Fernling.1729:

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

SWTOR is F2P…

If GW2 went sub, I’d be gone.

Read what I quoted.
“There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.”

SWTOR has a sub. It does also have a limited F2P option, but it does have a sub.

Nearly all western MMO that went F2P still have an optional subscription model,
however there is only one left that has no F2P option at all.
And no .. playing from 1-20 for free is not F2P.

Not sure what this has to do with what I was saying. I was responding to a single post where someone was claiming that only a single mmorpg with a sub is currently successful, which is false, I listed several.

Why do you pretend that FF14 doesn’t exist? FF14 not only exists, but it just so happens to be arguably the 2nd most successful mmorpg on the market.

You are correct!

(It is obvious why: No Instant Kill, No Have Everything WIth No Risk, No Reward First, No Skill Not Required, No Too Much Everything, No Perma-Stealth, No Reset Anytime, No Ignore Player Problem for 3year+. This game is joke to challenge and fun).

Malisane.9461:

The European version of the User Agreement has different wording in section 4.b

Gotta love those consumer rights laws in the EU

“If an Account and/or the Service was provided without the requirement of the payment of a recurring fee upon Your acceptance of this agreement and NCSOFT in its discretion decides that access to such Account and/or Service will be subject to a required recurring fee, you may claim a refund under Section 3(d) for the Software.”

Quick someone tell Nigel!! He’d love that xD

First of all, you stated a myth that subscriptions equal more money for the developer and thus better content for the players. This is not true. While lack of money may doom a game. Additional revenue is simply passed on to the owners of the game not put into further development. The development budget is already set. For example; World of Warcraft makes Big Zillions of cash for Blizzard and I don’t think that ‘extra’ cash is put back in WoW development. It is profit, to be used as Blizzard sees fit. Maybe put in a failed (Titan) future MMO?

Second, if GW2 went with a subscription ‘option’ I would quit. I view most subscription games as extortion rackets. They are a bad value for customers. Forcing customers to fork over $150.00+ every year for access to a game they already spent $60.00 for is just a scam.

Fernling.1729:

Beldin.5498:

Fernling.1729:

GuzziHero.2467:

Fernling.1729:

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

SWTOR is F2P…

If GW2 went sub, I’d be gone.

Read what I quoted.
“There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.”

SWTOR has a sub. It does also have a limited F2P option, but it does have a sub.

Nearly all western MMO that went F2P still have an optional subscription model,
however there is only one left that has no F2P option at all.
And no .. playing from 1-20 for free is not F2P.

Not sure what this has to do with what I was saying. I was responding to a single post where someone was claiming that only a single mmorpg with a sub is currently successful, which is false, I listed several.

Why do you pretend that FF14 doesn’t exist? FF14 not only exists, but it just so happens to be arguably the 2nd most successful mmorpg on the market.

You said SWTOR .. and SWTOR has just a hybrid model very much like RIFT, EQ2,
LotRO, Tera, Champions Online and most other western MMOs.

For FF14 .. don’t know .. for me that is somehow more an asian MMO and i never
really heared much of it here outside of this forum. We could also talk then maybe
about Lineage and Aion ..

I’d quit and I know several of my friends will as well. They would have to make some insanely major changes if they wanted to attract more people to cover the players they would lose

Kedarrian.2905:

For all we might point out its floors, GW2 is a very good game that does a lot of things right. But the current payment model comes with restrictions on how Anet can operate and what they have to prioritize.

If GW2 went subscription based, do you think it would grow or struggle?

Instantly leaving it!
I don’t support subscription games, why?
Gaming is joy, not a job…
Was playing GW1 since beta, was playing GW2 since beta, the moment GW2 goes sub mode, I’m out.

Would it grow or struggle?
Struggle, wow fans would go back to wow, and GW1 fans would probably leave, GW2 is not having good pvp and pve model to make people connected with game enough to effort subscription.

And as much as i know, anet woudln’t get different share if GW2 would went sub mode. So this topic is irrelevant.

I don’t really like thinking about extremely horrible things that will never happen. I just prefer to continue believing something that tragic won’t. For instance; a 2nd holocaust for example.

I would leave and I believe a huge portion of the population would as well.
A subscription model is not the current standard and not many games can maintain one anymore, as is evidenced by the games that have been trying to, but going to a free-to-play model within a year, or less. If big names like Star Wars and Elder Scrolls can’t do it, and the juggernaut WoW showing dropping numbers , there’s not much hope for Guild Wars to do it either.

F-A-I-L

@@
(
_

If GW2 went sub I would not sub

Not one of these again… Just stop trying to ruin things, please.

Fernling.1729:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.

WoW, FF14 and SWTOR are all successful. Runescape is also very successful, although some would say it’s a sandbox, I don’t know which it is.

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

ToR is freemium, FF14 has not passed the test of time. Runescape, sandpark?

Danikat.8537:

(Also I think you mean “pointing out it’s flaws”. Pointing out it’s floors would simply be pointing to the surfaces we walk on in-game.)

Aieee! You correct one thing and wreck another! “Pointing out its flaws” would be correct. “It’s flaws” isn’t correct, unless you further change it to “pointing out it’s flawed,” as “it’s” = “it is,” not a possessive.

I can’t say I’d leave the game. I have never had an issue paying subs even on games I’ve been away from for months, ah the joys of a good income, so sub/no-sub has never been a deciding factor in my MMO choices. But I’m sure enough people would leave — and demand refunds — that adding a sub would be financial suicide for GW2.

And when all my friends were gone, well. Yeah. Then I’d leave.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Fernling.1729:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.

WoW, FF14 and SWTOR are all successful. Runescape is also very successful, although some would say it’s a sandbox, I don’t know which it is.

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

ToR is freemium, FF14 has not passed the test of time. Runescape, sandpark?

Maybe you should have specified all the conditions in your original post. You started off with themepark mmos with a sub.
FF14 is going on two years at this point with major success the entire time. You literally said “There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub”. Sorry, SWTOR has a sub. If you want to shift the goal posts that’s okay too.

Fernling.1729:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Fernling.1729:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub. I don’t see that changing.

WoW, FF14 and SWTOR are all successful. Runescape is also very successful, although some would say it’s a sandbox, I don’t know which it is.

It just so happens that 3/4 of the top 5 most popular mmorpgs have a subscription.

ToR is freemium, FF14 has not passed the test of time. Runescape, sandpark?

Maybe you should have specified all the conditions in your original post. You started off with themepark mmos with a sub.
FF14 is going on two years at this point with major success the entire time. You literally said “There is only one successful theme park MMO with a sub”. Sorry, SWTOR has a sub. If you want to shift the goal posts that’s okay too.

Honestly, I had forgotten FFXiV. It was easy to do. Apologies for that, though I still think that it is in for a rude awakening once the development content not finished by launch has run out.

As to ToR, it went F2P freemium. So did STO, CO, and AOC, among others. You want to count them, too? There’s one game that is used as the benchmark for theme park success. FF14 has not come close, nor has STO. Still, to clarify, if GW2 were to go sub instead of B2P, they would not come close to even the qualified “success” of the freemium games.

Id be all for it. Once youre more than like, 16 years old, you realize that $15 a month for something you can easily play for 20+ hours a week is nothing compared to other things you can spend your money on.

But since like, half the playerbase is 16 (or acts like they are), it wouldnt work, so i dont think it will ever happen.