Guild Wars 2

By now it seems pretty clear GW2 has a gear treadmill – which I still insist is against all their pre-release marketing. But well, as time has passed, I came to ponder. Probably MMORPG simply need to have mechanics like that for longevity´s sake. But what anet does with it is borderline schizophrenic. While introducing gear grinding into the game and breaking their “manifesto” they stick with it in the “no grind” department. I have never seen a game that requires grind yet so heavily punishes grinding. Heavy DR like in GW2 is BS in a grind heavy game like GW2.

Heijincks.9267:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

I don’t have ascended gear save for a few random pieces I picked up in Fractals that don’t even match my build. Yet I do just fine in WvW. I mean the difference is so negligible that one single lucky crit in exotic gear makes up for the damage I would have gained with ascended.

No, it doesn’t. The person in ascended gear is going to get lucky crits as well. In fact, his crit chance (and crit damage) will likely be higher.

Perhaps. 1v1 just standing there and whacking each other with 50% chance crit, the ascended guy probably will have a slightly higher than 50% chance winning.

That being said, that’s hardly anything, let alone game breaking. It’s also not practical in a real fight. Hits miss. Reaction times count. Builds are different. Is such a slight difference really going to make a huge difference in the fight?

Currently? No. With full ascended set? It’s going to be significant.

Not to mention most fights aren’t 1v1. Okay sure, maybe the other guy was on par with you, but how often does that happen? Ascended isn’t a crutch to lean on.

I’m definitely not going to enjoy seeing full ascended burst thieves in WvW in any mode of play. They are a problem as it is. With 20% extra damage…

By the time ascended is fully released, it’ll be easier to obtain, and definitely not just through the current methods. Or at least we hope.

Doubtful. It would fail then at it’s original stated purpose – being a bridge between exotics and legendaries.
Since there is no other point to that eq, it would be just easier to remove it completely.

Also, so far the first attempt to make them accessible through other means resulted in even slower acquisition rate than in the first place, so i wouldn’t count on it ever getting better.

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

More people crying about a non-existent gear treadmill and how there is a grind, what grind? Moving on.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

Will this issue be something that is brought up every week until the day GW2 dies????

I dont think i can take the repetition of QQ and logical answers anymore if so….

Its a simple concept to understand. Yes, fractals are gear gated. They are a type of content that caters to players with a traditional mindset (ie; NEED gear to be progression and NEED infinite content to work through). But wait! No other type of content in the game needs either; Ascended gear OR agony resistance. Shock horror! The rest of the game isnt gear gated and allows people who hate that sort of thing to enjoy a MMO at their own pace.

Every fractal complainer doesnt seem to remember the endless NO ENDGAME and NO PROGRESSION type threads before fractals. Heck, they even pop up a little even now….

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

But wait! No other type of content in the game needs either; Ascended gear OR agony resistance.

If only that were true, I’d have no problems with whatever WoW-grind bullkitten ANet feeds PvEers.

Unfortunately, Ascended gear treadmill affects WvW. Hence, the game will die.

Pretty soon ANet will raise the level cap to 90 or 100, with addition gear. Next expansion will probably have Ascended+1, then Ascended+2 gear with 20% more stats each time. What a waste of a good game.

Mackdose.6504:

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

Hm, I guess people are usually more attentive of changing attributes than of the details of a given situation. Also, I doubt most people went from useful sets of rares to exotics. For me and people I played with leveling was so fast we did not bother looking for specific items till we reached max level, wearing more or less what we found with the occasional karma vendor item thrown in. Exotics were pretty much the standard to craft or aquire at level 80 and it seemed a rather easy grind back then. No idea how the market/drop rates have shifted since regarding exotics´ materials.

Mackdose.6504:

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics?

Perhaps because that group was almost non-existent. It takes only slightly more effort to gear fully in exotics compared to rares. Compared to this, the jump in effort to ascended is astronomical.
Mind you, personally i think that one of these (rares, exotics) tiers was completely unnecessary and could have been dropped without anyone noticing.

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics?

Perhaps because that group was almost non-existent. It takes only slightly more effort to gear fully in exotics compared to rares. Compared to this, the jump in effort to ascended is astronomical.
Mind you, personally i think that one of these (rares, exotics) tiers was completely unnecessary and could have been dropped without anyone noticing.

Well, then couldn’t GW2 just stop at Normal white gear? Same with GW1, right? Anet knows that the average population likes a bit of gear progression when they play (and you level up too, which is considered a form of vertical progression), so that’s why they have gear tiers. Even in GW1, but no one complained, and that’s probably because it was relatively easy to get max. Now, in gw2, it was similar too because it was relatively easy to get exotics. When ascended was introduced, people complained non-stop because it seemed grindy and limited to FoTM. So Anet listened (or maybe they already planned it out), to introduce several new ways to get ascended items. They already said that they’re introducing more ways to get ascended in later patches, so what’s the issue? The jump from exotics to ascended is smaller than the other jumps like from Rares to Exotics; around 20% change in stats while exotics to ascended is around 10%.

Kallout.5289:

More people crying about a non-existent gear treadmill and how there is a grind, what grind? Moving on.

Like I say to every hardcore person like you who says this.

And how long do you play? 5-6? Then yes, according to someone who has 3-5X the amount of time (on a good day) then most wouldn’t consider this a grind at all.

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

I play 2 hours a day, 3 or 4 days out of the week. Ascended does not feel impossible, nor does it feel like climbing like 25 mountains.

Stop trying to speak for me.

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

kenshinakh.3672:

So Anet listened (or maybe they already planned it out), to introduce several new ways to get ascended items. They already said that they’re introducing more ways to get ascended in later patches, so what’s the issue? The jump from exotics to ascended is smaller than the other jumps like from Rares to Exotics; around 20% change in stats while exotics to ascended is around 10%.

1. Ascended is a 15-33% jump depending on stat and exact item comparison.

2. ANet could listen better and simply remove ascended items from the game, OR make them statistically identical to exotics except for the Agony PvE gating stat.

silvermember.8941:

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

Grats on getting 1 item slot of ascended after grinding kittenty PvE timesink for hours. Here’s another game you might want to try out: http://www.progressquest.com/

In beta and pre-release, ANet promised not to have a kittenty gear creep tier grind a la WoW or other Pvbad games. Everyone knew it was bullkitten, but it’s funny/depressing to see ANet turn around on their promises so soon after release.

Bad enough to have the PvE ruleset in WvW, but now gear creep? So asinine.

frans.8092:

That is grind. It’s the definition of grind, repeatedly doing the same thing to get some carrot.

Nope.

Grind is continuously repeating something. Doing someone once a day isn’t a grind by definition.
Your life is a grind because you wake up once every day? Use common sense.

EasymodeX.4062:

kenshinakh.3672:

So Anet listened (or maybe they already planned it out), to introduce several new ways to get ascended items. They already said that they’re introducing more ways to get ascended in later patches, so what’s the issue? The jump from exotics to ascended is smaller than the other jumps like from Rares to Exotics; around 20% change in stats while exotics to ascended is around 10%.

1. Ascended is a 15-33% jump depending on stat and exact item comparison.

2. ANet could listen better and simply remove ascended items from the game, OR make them statistically identical to exotics except for the Agony PvE gating stat.

1. Here are the items. If you calculated the difference, it’s hardly between 7%-12%, and the biggest difference is the critical damage, coming in at a 12% difference. Power is around 9.5%, and precision is 7.5%.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/23183
Berserker’s Amulet
90 Power
64 Precision
5% Critical Damage
+
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/24498
Exquisite Ruby Jewel
25 power
3% critical damage
15 precision

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_the_Tethyos_Houses
Mark of the Tethyos Houses
94 Power
67 Precision
5% Critical damage
-
32 Power
4% Critical damage
18 Precision

2. Removing ascended just because the vocal complaints would be bad. They’ll just anger the silent group that are actually okay with ascended. They gave a good compromise, which is making ascended easier to obtain, and through many different ways once complete (I’m pretty sure they said something along that lines when they first introduced ascended, but people still complained anyways.)

I think we’re off topic though. This topic is “in my view, gw2 is a geartrademill”. It’s just his view, not proven facts.

All this debate just comes out as opinions in the end. I say… just enjoy the game and play. I should take that advice too… but I do find debating interesting on forums. There are times I realize I can be much happier not trying to convince people or prove people wrong and just be happy with how gw2 is and will be.

silvermember.8941:

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

He has no point.. that’s the point

He/she feels victimised because his/her limited play time feels like it is detrimental to getting the best gear… so is whinning that ANET are evil and Ascended gear is game breaking when really it will likely take the same amount of ingame time to get as anyone else but longer in terms of RL… That is not a fault of ANET but still he/she wants ANET to answer and basically allow the gear to drop without at least the same amount of effort

Like other posters have said.. All MMO’s require some kind of progression within its content… at some point actual content needs to increase in difficulty therefoee levels will increase.. which in turn requires players to be better equiped to attempt to overcome it otherwise we will all be sat around maps repeating the same content, in the same gear, until we can run things blinfold… and by then most of the playerbase, Hardcore and Casual, would of likely left due to boredom.

Kind of off topic, but since this thread seems to disappear and reappear off and on, can we PLEASE edit the title?

gearTREADmill, not gearTRADEmill.

silvermember.8941:

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

Not everyone has time for dailies and monthly. So if they only have 1 hour (and I know you’ll counter and say thats so much time for a daily! but those of us who don’t know the quickest way (most) to do it it isn’t) 1 hour is not enough.

Go through it logically before you post.

Bloodstealer.5978:

silvermember.8941:

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

He has no point.. that’s the point

He/she feels victimised because his/her limited play time feels like it is detrimental to getting the best gear… so is whinning that ANET are evil and Ascended gear is game breaking when really it will likely take the same amount of ingame time to get as anyone else but longer in terms of RL… That is not a fault of ANET but still he/she wants ANET to answer and basically allow the gear to drop without at least the same amount of effort

Like other posters have said.. All MMO’s require some kind of progression within its content… at some point actual content needs to increase in difficulty therefoee levels will increase.. which in turn requires players to be better equiped to attempt to overcome it otherwise we will all be sat around maps repeating the same content, in the same gear, until we can run things blinfold… and by then most of the playerbase, Hardcore and Casual, would of likely left due to boredom.

The difficulty increase doesn’t require a stat inflation though. They could just create more varied tasks. Fractals showed us that there is a lot of ways to implement 5 man content without just inflating the stats of the mobs.

As the game matures, we’ll see better and better events, dungeon encounters, jumping puzzles and more. WoW took a long time to move out of “tank and spank” raid fights, I’m willing to give Anet some time to get used to the strength and weaknesses of the open world content generation.

Revolution.6301:

silvermember.8941:

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

Not everyone has time for dailies and monthly. So if they only have 1 hour (and I know you’ll counter and say thats so much time for a daily! but those of us who don’t know the quickest way (most) to do it it isn’t) 1 hour is not enough.

Go through it logically before you post.

How about you stop putting people down for being reasonable toward your completely unreasonable requests and incessant whining.

I’m the type of person you keep using as an example, and I’m telling you you’re wrong. Complaining about being inefficient is going to get you advice, not sympathy.

Do higher level fotm reward people with a better chance to get precursors? If so, then I completely agree with the OP.

Revolution.6301:

silvermember.8941:

Revolution.6301:

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

You clearly see the issue at hand thanks!

Exotics are an armor piece that people even if you only have an hour a day to play can eventually seeing getting. It will take a bit but they can see that mountain getting closer and closer.

Ascended feels like an impossibility. Instead of only having to reach 1 mountain you are ask to go to 25 different ones with Not help at all, hence you have to climb up 1, down it and rinse and repeat.

Just from doing my dailies and monthly I am aboot to get my ascended amulet w/o going out of my way. So what is your point?

Not everyone has time for dailies and monthly. So if they only have 1 hour (and I know you’ll counter and say thats so much time for a daily! but those of us who don’t know the quickest way (most) to do it it isn’t) 1 hour is not enough.

Go through it logically before you post.

Logic? In an MMO forum? Really now, you’re asking far too much.

The dailies even before revision could be done in less than an hour if you were crunched for time by going to a starting zone. After the revision . . . they can be done in less than an hour in a starting zone. There’s people who gladly offer advice on these forums, or on Reddit, or in game if you ask nicely. (Granted, there’s people who don’t answer nicely or who laugh, but hey, we’ve got the rude folk like every other game ever.) “I don’t know how to get it done fast” is less of a reason and more of an excuse.

Monthlies are different, and require actual effort; I still haven’t hit my Monthly Dungeon quota. Mostly because I’m not actively working on it yet, but I still have a week and a half to go. I can probably find something over the next two weekends.

Ascended used to be “out there” because you had to do Fractals and get lucky with the RNG. Now it’s not, because you can just do some time-budgeting or have patience to earn the Rings and/or Amulet. This is a step forward towards people having Ascended more easily, not a step away.

kenshinakh.3672:

1. Here are the items. If you calculated the difference, it’s hardly between 7%-12%, and the biggest difference is the critical damage, coming in at a 12% difference. Power is around 9.5%, and precision is 7.5%.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/71384-adelberns-royal-signet-ring-infused

104 primary stat
69 secondary stat
8% crit damage

http://www.gw2db.com/items/58008-ruby-orichalcum-ring
http://www.gw2db.com/items/20923-exquisite-ruby-jewel-s

88, 63, 6

18%, 9.5%, 33%

Sit down.

2. Removing ascended just because the vocal complaints would be bad. They’ll just anger the silent group that are actually okay with ascended.

kitten them in the kitten.

They gave a good compromise, which is making ascended easier to obtain, and through many different ways once complete (I’m pretty sure they said something along that lines when they first introduced ascended, but people still complained anyways.)

The best option is to make ascended have the exact same stats as exotics with aesthetic flashing lights and bonus agony resistance.

The “compromise” they gave is complete bullkitten. Instead of grinding kittenty PvE dungeons ad nauseam, they give you the option to grind kittenty solo PvE ad nauseam. One bad option for another. Would you like to be reamed with a spoon or fork?

Ascended items should be completely removed until ANet can actually implement a good solution — e.g. one that doesn’t impact WvW.

Red Falcon.8257:

Nope.

Grind is continuously repeating something. Doing someone once a day isn’t a grind by definition.
Your life is a grind because you wake up once every day? Use common sense.

No.

Grinding is doing something that has no inherent value repeatedly as a prerequisite to doing something else worthwhile.

E.g. doing kittenty PvE dailies in order to WvW.
E.g. “grinding” gold in order to buy exotics to WvW.

No player in general should be forced to endure non-gameplay in order to play the game.

Leo Paul.1659:

Do higher level fotm reward people with a better chance to get precursors? If so, then I completely agree with the OP.

Of course not, nor are precursors or legendaries a single statistical point better than their exotic counterparts.

The really amusing thing about this is that the changes arenanet has made to the typical formula has led to the vocal minority losing all perspective as to what an actual gear treadmill looks like.

Heijincks.9267:

By the time ascended is fully released, it’ll be easier to obtain, and definitely not just through the current methods. Or at least we hope.

You are being WAY too optimistic there. >_> They have given no reason to believe that the rate of grind to receive items will change just because more are released. Atm, it takes between 20-60 days to get 3 items. Expect similar rates for the remaining ones.

That’s the point of a grind. It wouldn’t be a very good one if they made the items easy to get.

EasymodeX.4062:

kenshinakh.3672:

1. Here are the items. If you calculated the difference, it’s hardly between 7%-12%, and the biggest difference is the critical damage, coming in at a 12% difference. Power is around 9.5%, and precision is 7.5%.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/71384-adelberns-royal-signet-ring-infused

104 primary stat
69 secondary stat
8% crit damage

http://www.gw2db.com/items/58008-ruby-orichalcum-ring
http://www.gw2db.com/items/20923-exquisite-ruby-jewel-s

88, 63, 6

18%, 9.5%, 33%

Sit down.

Thanks for the seat, but I’m not done yet.

Now, I’m not sure why you’re even comparing rings of different types. The ascended one you linked is a Power, toughness, crit damage ring while the berserker’s ring is a power, precision, crit damage ring.

I showed you two comparable items that are both of the same class and type: Power, precision, critical damage.

If you want ring comparison:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Red_Ring_of_Death
+71 Power
+50 Precision
+4% Critical Damage
+32 Power
+4% Critical Damage
+18 Precision

http://www.gw2db.com/items/58008-ruby-orichalcum-ring
http://www.gw2db.com/items/20923-exquisite-ruby-jewel-s

+67 Power
+48 Precision
+3% Critical Damage
+25 Power
+3% Critical Damage
+15 Precision

Now, let’s do some math! Red of Ring of Death’s power is 103. Ruby Orichalcum’s power is 92. Difference is 11, which is 11% more than Ruby Orichalcum’s power.
Precision: 68 vs 63 => 7.9% more
Critical Damage: 8 vs 6 => 33.33% more.

If you want to add the infusion for the +5 power, then the difference will be 17.39%. Hm, +5 power. I’m sure I could have gotten them from something else like food and those spirit of the wild 10 min buffs I see people increasingly use in WvW. Not a big deal.

Clearly you’re off somewhere, and if you’re going to pick out the 33% from the critical damage… I’m going to laugh and say “Well, now if I had 1% critical damage, and it increased to 3%, is that a 300% increase? Of course! But it’s not going to matter for things on such a low scale in the first place!”

kenshinakh.3672:

Clearly you’re off somewhere, and if you’re going to pick out the 33% from the critical damage… I’m going to laugh and say “Well, now if I had 1% critical damage, and it increased to 3%, is that a 300% increase? Of course! But it’s not going to matter for things on such a low scale in the first place!”

And then when the rest of the ascended gear is released and someone crits you for 16k instead of 14k …

It’s too late.

Sidenote:

Whoops, I added the power on the ruby orichalcum incorrectly. Still, doesn’t make much of a difference. If you want to get really picky (which you apparently do):

http://www.gw2db.com/items/71376-crystalline-band-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71391-bagh-nakh-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71379-red-ring-of-death-infused

That’s still +13% on the power, 9.5% on the secondary, and 33% on the crit damage.

EasymodeX.4062:

kenshinakh.3672:

Clearly you’re off somewhere, and if you’re going to pick out the 33% from the critical damage… I’m going to laugh and say “Well, now if I had 1% critical damage, and it increased to 3%, is that a 300% increase? Of course! But it’s not going to matter for things on such a low scale in the first place!”

And then when the rest of the ascended gear is released and someone crits you for 16k instead of 14k …

It’s too late.

Sidenote:

Whoops, I added the power on the ruby orichalcum incorrectly. Still, doesn’t make much of a difference. If you want to get really picky (which you apparently do):

http://www.gw2db.com/items/71376-crystalline-band-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71391-bagh-nakh-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71379-red-ring-of-death-infused

That’s still +13% on the power, 9.5% on the secondary, and 33% on the crit damage.

150% is base crit damage. So while it may be 33% number increase from one ring to the next one up, when you include base stats (which everyone likes to forget) the increase is much lower.

33% higher stat != 33% more effectiveness.

Mackdose.6504:

EasymodeX.4062:

kenshinakh.3672:

Clearly you’re off somewhere, and if you’re going to pick out the 33% from the critical damage… I’m going to laugh and say “Well, now if I had 1% critical damage, and it increased to 3%, is that a 300% increase? Of course! But it’s not going to matter for things on such a low scale in the first place!”

And then when the rest of the ascended gear is released and someone crits you for 16k instead of 14k …

It’s too late.

Sidenote:

Whoops, I added the power on the ruby orichalcum incorrectly. Still, doesn’t make much of a difference. If you want to get really picky (which you apparently do):

http://www.gw2db.com/items/71376-crystalline-band-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71391-bagh-nakh-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71379-red-ring-of-death-infused

That’s still +13% on the power, 9.5% on the secondary, and 33% on the crit damage.

150% is base crit damage. So while it may be 33% number increase from one ring to the next one up, when you include base stats (which everyone likes to forget) the increase is much lower.

33% higher stat != 33% more effectiveness.

I thought this was well-known that after a point the statistics achieved a point of diminishing returns too, to where you’d need more in a stat to get a higher bonus.

There are no direct diminishing returns. All stats have general decay and marginal diminishing returns.

This is not relevant to the discussion.

Mackdose.6504:

150% is base crit damage. So while it may be 33% number increase from one ring to the next one up, when you include base stats (which everyone likes to forget) the increase is much lower.

33% higher stat != 33% more effectiveness.

This is also not relevant to the discussion as I have already accounted for that, unless you want to add all the obvious things like the sky is blue and so on.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I thought this was well-known that after a point the statistics achieved a point of diminishing returns too, to where you’d need more in a stat to get a higher bonus.

Correct. As long as the additions to the stat pool are low, (+3 here, +2 there) the higher the gear gets, the less those increasing numbers affect the actual power-level of any given toon.

20 + 2 = 10% increase.
200 + 2 = 1% increase.
2000 + 2 =.1% increase.

Diminishing returns.

EasymodeX.4062:

There are no direct diminishing returns. All stats have general decay and marginal diminishing returns.

This is not relevant to the discussion.

Mackdose.6504:

150% is base crit damage. So while it may be 33% number increase from one ring to the next one up, when you include base stats (which everyone likes to forget) the increase is much lower.

33% higher stat != 33% more effectiveness.

This is also not relevant to the discussion as I have already accounted for that, unless you want to add all the obvious things like the sky is blue and so on.

You didn’t account for squat if you think 2 points of crit damage is a 33% increase to total crit damage.

You must be dense to think that base stats are irrelevant to a gear statistics discussion.

20 + 2 = 10% increase.
200 + 2 = 1% increase.
2000 + 2 =.1% increase.
Diminishing returns.

That is diminishing marginal returns. E.g. the diminishing comparative value of increasing a big stat by a small amount. This is an economics concept.

The phrase “diminishing returns” refers to hard formulas that directly grant less numeric result from increasing stats. E.g. some logarithmic type function for precision -> crit%. In this game, the conversion is linear. No direct diminishing return. QED.

Mackdose.6504:

You didn’t account for squat if you think 2 points of crit damage is a 33% increase to total crit damage.

When did I say 2 points of crit damage is a 33% increase to total crit damage, kitten?

L2r before quoting my post. kitten I should make that my sig.

EasymodeX.4062:

That is diminishing marginal returns. E.g. the diminishing comparative value of increasing a big stat by a small amount. This is an economics concept.

The phrase “diminishing returns” refers to hard formulas that directly grant less numeric result from increasing stats. E.g. some logarithmic type function for precision -> crit%. In this game, the conversion is linear. No direct diminishing return. QED.

Semantics. They’re still “returns” that “diminish.” Whether it’s marginal or not is irrelevant.

EasymodeX.4062:

20 + 2 = 10% increase.
200 + 2 = 1% increase.
2000 + 2 =.1% increase.
Diminishing returns.

That is diminishing marginal returns. E.g. the diminishing comparative value of increasing a big stat by a small amount. This is an economics concept.

The phrase “diminishing returns” refers to hard formulas that directly grant less numeric result from increasing stats. E.g. some logarithmic type function for precision -> crit%. In this game, the conversion is linear. No direct diminishing return. QED.

Except I recall it being said that the conversion is not linear to effect. The example was: you can pump all your points into Precision but after a point it takes much more points to achieve an increase in chances to critical on a hit.

Flat % adjustments notwithstanding, raw stats (Power, Vitality, Condition Damage . . .) have a factor of diminishing returns in place, as far as I am aware this hasn’t been proven wrong. While putting a focus of points on Power does make your damage rise, shaving some out of that to devote to Vitality will get you a bigger boost overall.

Again, if we’re not talking the base stats, I can perhaps concede that it’s linear. For base stats, it’s been stated there’s diminishing returns.

Mackdose.6504:

Algreg.3629:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Not really, as soon as I hit lvl80 on a new alt, I can use all the jugs and drops of karma to spend it on exotics or just buy it with the tokens I got from dungeons. Since I have my legendary, I don’t play THAT much. Maybe 2 hours a day. Maybe 6-7 dungeon runs in a week. It is EASILY I really mean EASILY achievable to get exotic gear. I never, ever, EVER understand people complaining about gear treadmill. The few ascended items are easy to get. If you have problems, shut up and go play your casual mobile game.

Edit: You need a bit effort to achieve something, if not, games like MMOs (and honestl,y most PC and console games I played) are nothihng for you. I really can’t stand the whining anymore, it is just ridiculous.

one might say applying the attribute “only” to devoting almost 2 full work days a week to GW2 while implying that it must have been a lot more before aquiring casually mentioned 2 legendaries doesn´t make you really the go-to-guy regarding the judgement of in game timeframes. Do not misunderstand me, your playing habits are your thing and totally fine by me, I devote a lot of time to games myself, but that is hardly a reasonable perspective you have.

Speaking of perspective, why were people in rares never complaining about the vertical progression of exotics? It’s the same percentage of stat increase, same relative amount of time to acquire (remember that dungeons didn’t always give 180 tokens a day,) as ascended is now.

There were complaints about how long it took to get exotics at first, but nothing about the inherent statistical advantage exotics gave over rare-equipped or downscaled players.

Where was the outcry from WvW players? Where was the outcry from so-called casuals?

Exotics are not new last I checked

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Except I recall it being said that the conversion is not linear to effect. The example was: you can pump all your points into Precision but after a point it takes much more points to achieve an increase in chances to critical on a hit.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

At Level 80, the base precision is 916, with a crit chance of 4%. At Level 80, Critical Chance and Precision is approximated by the following formula:

Critical Chance = Round((precision – 831.36) / 21.16)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

Base direct damage is given by the following equation:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

Certain effects can temporarily increase your maximum health. Each additional point of the Vitality attribute raises health by 10.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

For base stats, it’s been stated there’s diminishing returns.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you are an example of why it’s important to distinguish “diminishing returns” from diminishing marginal returns when discussing mechanics details. Random audiences can get the wrong impression if they’re thrown around haphazardly.

EasymodeX.4062:

kenshinakh.3672:

Clearly you’re off somewhere, and if you’re going to pick out the 33% from the critical damage… I’m going to laugh and say “Well, now if I had 1% critical damage, and it increased to 3%, is that a 300% increase? Of course! But it’s not going to matter for things on such a low scale in the first place!”

And then when the rest of the ascended gear is released and someone crits you for 16k instead of 14k …

It’s too late.

Sidenote:

Whoops, I added the power on the ruby orichalcum incorrectly. Still, doesn’t make much of a difference. If you want to get really picky (which you apparently do):

http://www.gw2db.com/items/71376-crystalline-band-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71391-bagh-nakh-infused
http://www.gw2db.com/items/71379-red-ring-of-death-infused

That’s still +13% on the power, 9.5% on the secondary, and 33% on the crit damage.

Okay, so that’s no where near 15%-33% increase right? You say it’s a “jump” when it’s hardly a step up. Anet is already addressing the issue of fractal availability, and that’s their response to the QQing. They’re not going to remove it because that’ll just kitten off 50-75% of the population. And yes, I’m just guessing those numbers because the majority of the players I talk to in map chat don’t really see the problem with fractals. Keep in mind that a huge portion of players came from other MMOs, not just GW1 only. So they don’t see this small increase as a jump, but a tiny step that may be the last stat increase with rarity for at least a year.

That’s way more than enough time for people to get ascended, and in the end, it’s not going to matter much in WVW where exotics vs some pieces of ascended + exotics won’t define a fight’s outcome.

Remember the thing I said about numbers being small and then computing their percentages… If I got something like 5% crit damage, and I get it to 10%, that’s a 100% increase, but it hardly affects much in the large scale battles. Now if you look at power/precision and all the other stats, I don’t think you’re going to get a huge change in damage on your characters on exotics vs the current ascended parts. It might be a couple hundred of damage more, but that’s it.

It does make you stronger, but it’s not breaking gameplay, or at least shouldn’t for the average player.

kenshinakh.3672:

Now if you look at power/precision and all the other stats, I don’t think you’re going to get a huge change in damage on your characters on exotics vs the current ascended parts. It might be a couple hundred of damage more, but that’s it.

Why are you wasting your time re-casting your pipe dream when I already mentioned 14k -> 16k crits?

What happens when one group of 20 players does 10-15% (to be conservative) more damage than the other group?

It’s like WvW Orbs of Power all over again, except persistent!

no way=XD

just buy gems, trade for game gold and buy exotic gear = 0 grind, all done within 5 min.

here you grind ONLY for rare skins (dungeon) as legendary you can get by system above.

sorry to resume, but it typical f2p choice: pay or grind.
in a good point, must admit that karma exotic grind is not that long.

EasymodeX.4062:

kenshinakh.3672:

Now if you look at power/precision and all the other stats, I don’t think you’re going to get a huge change in damage on your characters on exotics vs the current ascended parts. It might be a couple hundred of damage more, but that’s it.

Why are you wasting your time re-casting your pipe dream when I already mentioned 14k -> 16k crits?

Hm, I’m not sure how you calculate those crit, but let’s do some in theory.

Let’s say you have 95% crit damage bonus with 50% base crit damage, and your attack normall hits for 6k, crits up to 14700, which should be close enough.

Now add in 2% more. 97%. Crits up to 14820. If we want to get anywhere close to 16k…

We’re going to need 125% crit damage bonus for about 16500. That’s about 30%+ crit damage you need to get up that high. At the moment, I don’t see crit damage bonuses adding up to that high if you’re already near 95% crit damage bonus.

EasymodeX.4062:

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you are an example of why it’s important to distinguish “diminishing returns” from diminishing marginal returns when discussing mechanics details. Random audiences can get the wrong impression if they’re thrown around haphazardly.

I won’t take it the wrong way . . . I’m not too big on delving into the deep mechanics and number-crunching. I can if I want to, but it just doesn’t interest me in many games.

kenshinakh.3672:

EasymodeX.4062:

That’s still +13% on the power, 9.5% on the secondary, and 33% on the crit damage.

Okay, so that’s no where near 15%-33% increase right?

Yes… 9.5%-33% is nowhere near 15%-33%… they are not even close, as can be clearly seen.

EasymodeX.4062:

The “compromise” they gave is complete bullkitten. Instead of grinding kittenty PvE dungeons ad nauseam, they give you the option to grind kittenty solo PvE ad nauseam. One bad option for another. Would you like to be reamed with a spoon or fork?

Ascended items should be completely removed until ANet can actually implement a good solution — e.g. one that doesn’t impact WvW.

At least EasymodeX sees it.

The compromise they gave (ironically to please another vocal minority) was a rushed out, unimaginative one, which they even admitted. There’s no arguing this, ANet know they screwed up. They made it worse imo by trying to tells us it was always planned, when their pre-release marketing hype and not having it included at launch paint a different story. They sold out on their original idea of HP and chasing cosmetics, which personally is what drew my attention to the game in the first place.

They could fix this mess they’ve created by removing ascended stats, thus not having this extra tier of gear effect WvW.

Astralporing.1957:

kenshinakh.3672:

EasymodeX.4062:

That’s still +13% on the power, 9.5% on the secondary, and 33% on the crit damage.

Okay, so that’s no where near 15%-33% increase right?

Yes… 9.5%-33% is nowhere near 15%-33%… they are not even close, as can be clearly seen.

And that 33% was for something as great as 2 % more… from 6 to 8, making it a 33% increase. Yes, that’s so great. I’m completely dumbfounded and have lost the debate and shall withdraw now.

It’s closer to 10% increases overall. But you need to see that these stats do offer a numerical advantage, a small one. They’re not going to affect the greater part of experience in WvW though.

LOCO.1785:

EasymodeX.4062:

The “compromise” they gave is complete bullkitten. Instead of grinding kittenty PvE dungeons ad nauseam, they give you the option to grind kittenty solo PvE ad nauseam. One bad option for another. Would you like to be reamed with a spoon or fork?

Ascended items should be completely removed until ANet can actually implement a good solution — e.g. one that doesn’t impact WvW.

At least EasymodeX sees it.

The compromise they gave (ironically to please another vocal minority) was a rushed out, unimaginative one, which they even admitted. There’s no arguing this, ANet know they screwed up. They made it worse imo by trying to tells us it was always planned, when their pre-release marketing hype and not having it included at launch paint a different story. They sold out on their original idea of HP and chasing cosmetics, which personally is what drew my attention to the game in the first place.

They could fix this mess they’ve created by removing ascended stats, thus not having this extra tier of gear effect WvW.

There’s a huge difference between “seeing” it vs. having an opinion. His opinion is just as good as mine, and I won’t deny that.

I just don’t think it is bad as some of you make it out to be. Just my opinion though that arrived at through logical reasoning with what I know.

And removing ascended is a terrible solution. If they wanted to do that, they should have done that no more than 1 hour after it released or became official. The only viable solution now is to keep on working on the ascended and giving them more ways to be obtained, which is already what anet promises. Now you just need to wait for when it’s all out.

Plus, right now you can only get small parts like rings, amulets, back pieces. They’re releasing it slowly enough so you can get it piece by piece, slowly… It’s not a huge deal o.O.

If you try to remove the stats from the ascended gear at this point, you’ll only trade one group of angry players for another. If adding ascended gear to the game was a mistake (and I’m not saying it was or it wasn’t, personally I’m on the fence), I think the only fair way to correct it at this point is to add the gear to other vendors. Put it on the karma and the WvW badge vendors at an increased cost compared to exotic gear, and then everyone has access according to his or her playstyle. From that point, you could keep any further vertical progression in the fractals limited to increased agony resistance via new infusions.

All of that being said, I think it’s too early to start staying that GW2 has a gear treadmill. Yes, Anet implemented another tier of gear, but when I think of a gear treadmill, I think of something akin to WoW: level to cap, run basic dungeons until you have a high enough gear score to run the higher basic dungeons, run those until you have a high enough gear score to run low-level heroic dungeons, run those until you have a high enough gear score to run high-level heroic dungeons, then potentially another tier of heroics, and from there it’s the raids, where you often have to defeat the first few bosses many times to gear your raid to even attempt the later bosses of the raid. That doesn’t include the differences between normal modes and heroic modes; and unlike the majority of GW2 (I cannot speak for high-level fractals because I haven’t done them), skill is not going to overcome weaknesses in gear. If you do not have enough gear to put out enough DPS to beat an enrage timer, you will wipe. If your healer doesn’t have enough throughput or regen, you will wipe. If your tank can’t take the hits, etc. All of the max-level content is gated by gear, and the above scenario is only for one particular set of raid tiers. A few months after that and there will be a new raid that requires new gear scores, etc.

GW2 looks nothing like that currently. However, people have the right to be wary. We’ll just have to wait and see what Anet does next.