Guild Wars 2

A grind is doing something that you may not enjoy repeatedly for an end goal. But id argue that this depends on the timescale involved between each action and in that respect you dont need to grind for anything in the game because there’s ample enough time to get each item and there are multiple ways to get that item.

Having the fractals as the sole way of acquiring ascended rings was a mistake that was rectified with the introduction of laurels. Yet people are still complaining that it takes too long to get anything without doing the daily everyday for months despite the fact it takes no longer than 30 minutes to do in addition to the fact its not the end of the world if you fail to complete a daily! It just means an extra day to wait for the item.

Entitled is the word to use in this circumstance. These players want everything asap and complain when they dont get their way. Im sorry if this offends some but how else am I meant to describe those that think they deserve it all without having to put in any effort for it. If these players got what they wanted there would be nothing to work towards in GW2 and the game would die. As soon as these entitled players realise that there is no timescale to any item/content in the game the better in my opinion.

frans.8092:

Wrong, ascended items are only obtainable through grind.

Nope.
You can get ascended by just doing laurel dailies or one daily fractal.
Neither of these system require you to “grind” anything.

Unless you’re one of those people who thinks doing an action every 24 hours is a grind, in which case I suggest you think about your daily actions… every 24 hours you repeat some exactly same actions, so your life is a grind too?

Grind is continuous repetition, not doing ONE thing ONCE every 24 hours.

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

. . . in the interest of pointing this out, if it takes them a year to fully roll out the Ascended gear over little updates every month or couple months . . .

Exactly how would it be wrong for people to expect that they have at least the rings they would have introduced a year ago?

Red Falcon.8257:

frans.8092:

Wrong, ascended items are only obtainable through grind.

Nope.
You can get ascended by just doing laurel dailies or one daily fractal.
Neither of these system require you to “grind” anything.

That is grind. It’s the definition of grind, repeatedly doing the same thing to get some carrot.

Unless you’re one of those people who thinks doing an action every 24 hours is a grind,

My RL daytime job is less grind then the GW2 dailies.

Grind is continuous repetition, not doing ONE thing ONCE every 24 hours.

It’s repeating the same action over and over again. It doesn’t matter if it’s 30 minutes per day. And 30 minutes requires you to follow a few specific event chains and routes again and again.

I played Perfect World, the game had become a chore, then a grind, with dailies, just like GW2 has. I got to level 50, when, one evening I tried to login but felt sick at the thought of doing doing so. Never touched it since.
I don’t want that to happen with Guildwars.

Gestankfaust.4216:

I do not “need” ascended gear to play this game…at all. Neither do you.

It’s only a couple of trinkets now, maybe +5% on the total. It will be 15-20% when every piece of gear has an ascended version. And that is too large a difference for Wvw. I hate loosing, I hate loosing because of inadequate gear even more, I can not play Wvw when I am under-geared and Wvw (and PvP) will be all this game has to offer in a couple of months.

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

Most likely, by the time ascended gear is necessary, it will be easier to obtain. For example, giving laurels for in game achievements could greatly increase the number of laurels available.

frans.8092:

My RL daytime job is less grind then the GW2 dailies.

. . . the GW2 dailies take less time than it takes me to do my daily upkeep of a house with four adult residents. It takes less time and effort than it took me to close the restaurant when I had an evening server position. It takes less effort than it took me to do daily schedule arrangement when I was a store manager. It’s less boring than doing the data entry job I had for a year.

There is no way that my RL has less grind than GW2. Primarily because I can always STOP doing GW2 grind if I want to and still play the game. I can’t stop RL grind and still survive.

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

The content isn’t even balanced around exotics yet. This isn’t some “spreadsheet your max dps to wipe at 3%” kind of game. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

Mackdose.6504:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

The content isn’t even balanced around exotics yet. This isn’t some “spreadsheet your max dps to wipe a 3%” kind of game. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

Because some people play it that way. I’m being serious, because some people play it that way, it needs to be taken into account. It’s been brought up every time when “you don’t need Ascended for most content” starts being said, that some people might as well need it due to a “need” to have the best in slot gear they can get.

Some people play the game that way, and I honestly don’t want to tell them they’re playing the game wrong. I just think other games could give them that better than this.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mackdose.6504:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

The content isn’t even balanced around exotics yet. This isn’t some “spreadsheet your max dps to wipe a 3%” kind of game. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

Because some people play it that way. I’m being serious, because some people play it that way, it needs to be taken into account. It’s been brought up every time when “you don’t need Ascended for most content” starts being said, that some people might as well need it due to a “need” to have the best in slot gear they can get.

Some people play the game that way, and I honestly don’t want to tell them they’re playing the game wrong. I just think other games could give them that better than this.

Your kind of asking for humans to be changed at that point. There no way Anet can do that some ppl will always play by the max/min and there is nothing that can be done to fix that.
There is no geartrademill in this game its just the view of some players that there is. This is more so true for the max/min players. As i said before if you look hard enofe for something you will find it even if its not there in the first places.

Jski.6180:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mackdose.6504:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

The content isn’t even balanced around exotics yet. This isn’t some “spreadsheet your max dps to wipe a 3%” kind of game. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

Because some people play it that way. I’m being serious, because some people play it that way, it needs to be taken into account. It’s been brought up every time when “you don’t need Ascended for most content” starts being said, that some people might as well need it due to a “need” to have the best in slot gear they can get.

Some people play the game that way, and I honestly don’t want to tell them they’re playing the game wrong. I just think other games could give them that better than this.

Your kind of asking for humans to be changed at that point. There no way Anet can do that some ppl will always play by the max/min and there is nothing that can be done to fix that.
There is no geartrademill in this game its just the view of some players that there is. This is more so true for the max/min players. As i said before if you look hard enofe for something you will find it even if its not there in the first places.

I’m not asking for anything to be changed. Frankly, what I want isn’t going to matter enough for anyone to take it seriously – it never has before, it never will. There’s a much broader audience for a game to reach than “just me”, so expecting my vision of something to come out on top is very selfish.

I agree, people want to min/max and some people do it naturally. For them, its fun to figure out efficiency and use the math skills they possess to run numbers and figure this stuff out. There is nothing wrong with that, it keeps your math skills in practice and keeps you entertained.

My only comment is that maybe GW2 isn’t the best place for people like that to play, because the edge you can garner right now by Ascended gear (even extrapolating to a full set) isn’t a factor in PvE (yet) and in WvW it becomes less important the more you move away from small groups facing each other in semiorganized things.

Sure, one group of 5 people in Ascended has a statistical advantage over the 5 people in Exotic, but unless you’re suddenly in a pocket world where nothing else can interfere and the terrain is flat and featureless then whether the Ascended group has the advantage in gear is moot. But . . .

- More people can ambush the Ascended group and nullify the stat advantage with superior numbers of ANOTHER sort.
- If the engagement is done in a spot where terrain can be used to advantage, it can be used to alter the outcome.
- Consumables in use might alter the outcome.
- If the engagement is done in a spot people can hit with siege because the Exotic-wearers chose that place to engage, then it’s again not a flat choice.
- Skill. Overall skill at playing the class and knowing how to deal with your opposing classes can . . . does even now . . . trump stat advantage.

@ Tobias Trueflight (its getting too long to quote)

I was trying to point out that though who think that way tend to see this as a geartrademill in some ways i am saying you may think this way some what.
What you must realize that though with full Ascended gear as you call them the “Ascended group” tends to play the game more so then though with out so these group will tend to have more over all skill due to Experience with the game. At the same time fractal makes you a better player this is because you must work as a group to make it though events you must be able to roll at well time times and over all you have a better idea what your class can and cant do.
This is a near action mmorpg (not a full action and most like would never work as one lag of any type destroys these types of games) gear is only a small part of your ability of play. Its your skill chose your treates set up and your ability to times things out that the true test of how “good” you are.

Jski.6180:

@ Tobias Trueflight (its getting too long to quote)

I was trying to point out that though who think that way tend to see this as a geartrademill in some ways i am saying you may think this way some what.
What you must realize that though with full Ascended gear as you call them the “Ascended group” tends to play the game more so then though with out so these group will tend to have more over all skill due to Experience with the game. At the same time fractal makes you a better player this is because you must work as a group to make it though events you must be able to roll at well time times and over all you have a better idea what your class can and cant do.
This is a near action mmorpg (not a full action and most like would never work as one lag of any type destroys these types of games) gear is only a small part of your ability of play. Its your skill chose your treates set up and your ability to times things out that the true test of how “good” you are.

The Ascended group wouldn’t need to play the game longer, or more. They might just have gotten REALLY LUCKY at the RNG. Or the “Exotic Group” are all alts of someone who has been playing much much more so the skill level isn’t readily apparent until they start action.

We’re pretty much agreeing here, it’s just that there’s too many details which go into how effective a character actually is than gear.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Jski.6180:

@ Tobias Trueflight (its getting too long to quote)

I was trying to point out that though who think that way tend to see this as a geartrademill in some ways i am saying you may think this way some what.
What you must realize that though with full Ascended gear as you call them the “Ascended group” tends to play the game more so then though with out so these group will tend to have more over all skill due to Experience with the game. At the same time fractal makes you a better player this is because you must work as a group to make it though events you must be able to roll at well time times and over all you have a better idea what your class can and cant do.
This is a near action mmorpg (not a full action and most like would never work as one lag of any type destroys these types of games) gear is only a small part of your ability of play. Its your skill chose your treates set up and your ability to times things out that the true test of how “good” you are.

The Ascended group wouldn’t need to play the game longer, or more. They might just have gotten REALLY LUCKY at the RNG. Or the “Exotic Group” are all alts of someone who has been playing much much more so the skill level isn’t readily apparent until they start action.

We’re pretty much agreeing here, it’s just that there’s too many details which go into how effective a character actually is than gear.

That the thing “luck” has for the most part been taking out of the equation its more a thing of time when it comes to getting Ascended rings / back and only time for Ascended neck items. This is because of the ways to buy rings and back items with fractal items and now you can buy rings and neck items with laurels. When ascended items first came out the RNG was the major factor what you got but its no longer this way.

TooBz.3065:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

Most likely, by the time ascended gear is necessary, it will be easier to obtain. For example, giving laurels for in game achievements could greatly increase the number of laurels available.

They said that the in game achievements will likely use a different system than laurels.
Also, if the current trend continues, ascended we have now will become easier to get only after a new tier/level cap raise will be introduced.
They are in no hurry to make them any easier, and seem to think that one month per eq piece is the right amount of time wasted. And that is supposedly their method of correcting the situation after fractal fiasco. That doesn’t exactly fill me with optimism.

Astralporing.1957:

They are in no hurry to make them any easier, and seem to think that one month per eq piece is the right amount of time wasted. And that is supposedly their method of correcting the situation after fractal fiasco. That doesn’t exactly fill me with optimism.

Well, it would kind of defeat the purpose of making a de facto end game gear tier easier to obtain before the next tier or superior set of gear is released. Casual play shouldn’t be able to net you ascended, it’s a goal you have to dedicate yourself to, and take away time you would have spent doing other things in game to work towards it.

The “but they said I can play how I want to” argument wouldn’t work here, because if you could make progress towards any item or title in game, and I mean any, with anything you do under the flag of eliminating grind, the game would loose its ability to guide the players and create a sense of purpose, the feeling of really going on a journey with intermediate goals that act as progress milestones once the players finished farming for a number of materials in a certain part of the world.
Gold already acts as this universal currency, but only for the common items, really. As soon as you want something a bit rarer, the prices become too unreasonable compared to just going out and farming the item yourself.
Ascended gear is a set of prestigious, exclusive items players can work for but don’t need to, and since the acquisition isn’t expected not required, the prices or time investment required to get them can be disproportionately high. Giving anyone the ability to easily get them equates to putting named exotic skins on a karma vendor.

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

What are you basing this on? Because I don’t believe this is going to happen. I understand why Anet did what they did. By the time anything is updated so you need it, Anet will provide you a path to get it easily. That’s how it’s going to work.

You don’t think Anet realized that there are a ton of casuals playing the game? They didn’t make a decision that would hurt casuals long term. They made a decision to keep grinders in the game longer. And that doesn’t actually hurt casuals.

Those people will still be around, still spend money on things, and that provides income for expansions, upgrades, content, bug fixes, etc.

You may think that Anet, when they made this choice didn’t have casual players in mind…but I disagree.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Jski.6180:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mackdose.6504:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

well Ascended should be there but only as a cosmetic feature. People love their skins. Love to show off. Anet just let them love and all will be good again.

And then fix the stats and let us casuals get stats easier.

Thank you

I’m a casual, and I think options for all player types is good for the game. Stop acting like casuals are losing out on something because of ascended gear, we’re not.

Not yet. Eventually, when all content will be updated with ascended stats in mind (and the devs said it will), everyone else will be left behind.

The content isn’t even balanced around exotics yet. This isn’t some “spreadsheet your max dps to wipe a 3%” kind of game. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

Because some people play it that way. I’m being serious, because some people play it that way, it needs to be taken into account. It’s been brought up every time when “you don’t need Ascended for most content” starts being said, that some people might as well need it due to a “need” to have the best in slot gear they can get.

Some people play the game that way, and I honestly don’t want to tell them they’re playing the game wrong. I just think other games could give them that better than this.

Your kind of asking for humans to be changed at that point. There no way Anet can do that some ppl will always play by the max/min and there is nothing that can be done to fix that.
There is no geartrademill in this game its just the view of some players that there is. This is more so true for the max/min players. As i said before if you look hard enofe for something you will find it even if its not there in the first places.

I’m not asking for anything to be changed. Frankly, what I want isn’t going to matter enough for anyone to take it seriously – it never has before, it never will. There’s a much broader audience for a game to reach than “just me”, so expecting my vision of something to come out on top is very selfish.

I agree, people want to min/max and some people do it naturally. For them, its fun to figure out efficiency and use the math skills they possess to run numbers and figure this stuff out. There is nothing wrong with that, it keeps your math skills in practice and keeps you entertained.

My only comment is that maybe GW2 isn’t the best place for people like that to play, because the edge you can garner right now by Ascended gear (even extrapolating to a full set) isn’t a factor in PvE (yet) and in WvW it becomes less important the more you move away from small groups facing each other in semiorganized things.

Sure, one group of 5 people in Ascended has a statistical advantage over the 5 people in Exotic, but unless you’re suddenly in a pocket world where nothing else can interfere and the terrain is flat and featureless then whether the Ascended group has the advantage in gear is moot. But . . .

- More people can ambush the Ascended group and nullify the stat advantage with superior numbers of ANOTHER sort.
- If the engagement is done in a spot where terrain can be used to advantage, it can be used to alter the outcome.
- Consumables in use might alter the outcome.
- If the engagement is done in a spot people can hit with siege because the Exotic-wearers chose that place to engage, then it’s again not a flat choice.
- Skill. Overall skill at playing the class and knowing how to deal with your opposing classes can . . . does even now . . . trump stat advantage.

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

Why not just removed the advantage from ascended gear? Grinding should only be for aesthetic upgrades.

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

The same logic can be used to defend any pay-to-win scheme (as long as you can’t literally pay to win outright).

Czar Peter.7961:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

The same logic can be used to defend any pay-to-win scheme (as long as you can’t literally pay to win outright).

Good thing it isn’t pay to win: Ascended gear exists, and you can’t buy it with gems, gold or karma. Only by playing the game.

Your move.

Czar Peter.7961:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

The same logic can be used to defend any pay-to-win scheme (as long as you can’t literally pay to win outright).

Any logic can be used to justify any point anyone could ever make. You can rationalize anything, but once proof hits the table . . .

. . . but more to the point, when the heck did Ascended vs Exotic turn into “pay to win”?

Mackdose.6504:

Czar Peter.7961:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

The same logic can be used to defend any pay-to-win scheme (as long as you can’t literally pay to win outright).

Good thing it isn’t pay to win: Ascended gear exists, and you can’t buy it with gems, gold or karma. Only by playing the game.

Your move.

Apologies for not making my point more explicit, thus leaving too much room for strawmen. According to Tobias Truelight, a system where some players have ascended items and many don’t is not a problem, because a highly skilled player with low level items can still beat an average player with ascended items. This kind of logic is commonly used to defend games where players can purchase in-game advantages for cash, because a highly skilled player can still win without paying cash. The parallel with GW2 in this case, is that ascended items take too long and are too boring for many players to obtain, leading to a subset of players with them and another subset without, like in P2W.

Czar Peter.7961:

Mackdose.6504:

Czar Peter.7961:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

The same logic can be used to defend any pay-to-win scheme (as long as you can’t literally pay to win outright).

Good thing it isn’t pay to win: Ascended gear exists, and you can’t buy it with gems, gold or karma. Only by playing the game.

Your move.

Apologies for not making my point more explicit, thus leaving too much room for strawmen. According to Tobias Truelight, a system where some players have ascended items and many don’t is not a problem, because a highly skilled player with low level items can still beat an average player with ascended items. This kind of logic is commonly used to defend games where players can purchase in-game advantages for cash, because a highly skilled player can still win without paying cash. The parallel with GW2 in this case, is that ascended items take too long and are too boring for many players to obtain, leading to a subset of players with them and another subset without, like in P2W.

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Very true. This is because there are dedicated PvE players who enjoy fractals, have been doing them since launch, and now have a surplus of ascended items. There are also PvP and WvW players, who find fractals repetitive and boring, and as of yet do not have a single ascended item, despite playing just as actively. I would like to see this discrepancy fixed.

Heijincks.9267:

Czar Peter.7961:

Mackdose.6504:

Czar Peter.7961:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Revolution.6301:

still ascended have an advantage.

Really Anet should make ascended sellable on the tp, and make them as easy to get as exotics. Problem solved.

Have ascended ONLY in dailies and fotm makes anyone who does not have 2 hours at once to blow annoyed.

The “Ascended Group” only have an advantage The advantage goes to whomever can use what they got the best. That may be the “Ascended Group” or it could be the “Exotic Group”. I’d be willing to put money down that a group kitted out in 100% Ascended randomly chosen from one server would NOT be able to beat a group of the top WvW players in MASTERWORK gear.

The same logic can be used to defend any pay-to-win scheme (as long as you can’t literally pay to win outright).

Good thing it isn’t pay to win: Ascended gear exists, and you can’t buy it with gems, gold or karma. Only by playing the game.

Your move.

Apologies for not making my point more explicit, thus leaving too much room for strawmen. According to Tobias Truelight, a system where some players have ascended items and many don’t is not a problem, because a highly skilled player with low level items can still beat an average player with ascended items. This kind of logic is commonly used to defend games where players can purchase in-game advantages for cash, because a highly skilled player can still win without paying cash. The parallel with GW2 in this case, is that ascended items take too long and are too boring for many players to obtain, leading to a subset of players with them and another subset without, like in P2W.

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

LOL your right >:O

There we go, why not let people SELL THEM. That is so easy to implement and then everyone will be happy. But then theres the whole gold grind issue. Now gold grind will be an interesting fix, since to buy a fully ‘stated’ character (this include 1 weapon, jewlery, armor etc.) costs around 65 gold. 65 gold while may be pennies to some is quite alot to others.

Czar Peter.7961:

Apologies for not making my point more explicit, thus leaving too much room for strawmen. According to Tobias Truelight, a system where some players have ascended items and many don’t is not a problem, because a highly skilled player with low level items can still beat an average player with ascended items. This kind of logic is commonly used to defend games where players can purchase in-game advantages for cash, because a highly skilled player can still win without paying cash. The parallel with GW2 in this case, is that ascended items take too long and are too boring for many players to obtain, leading to a subset of players with them and another subset without, like in P2W.

It’s not that it’s not a problem. It is, there is a definite imbalance in stats, which . . . frankly, I’m not going to try to pretend isn’t there. The stats will be higher on one side than the other, that is an actual fact.

The problems come in several forms, and all of them can be found in the community. The community is right now, and has been since November, spinning the problem from something which could have been minor into something which is so game-breakingly bad it needs to be removed. There’s no middle ground allowed. Either it’s so horribly bad that it has to go, or you must be okay with a gear treadmill, or must be one of the rich ones “flipping Precursors”, or secretly Trahearne.

I dunno, once more I’m looking at the forums and going: “what’s the point in playing?” It’s not because of Ascended, overpriced Precursors, or Trahearne. It’s because it seems nobody thinks the game is any fun, and the people who ARE having fun are idiots.

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

For some things, yes the game is about that. Other things does have alternatives, I want to see how far this is going with the ascended items coming to the game in later updates.

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Ascended gears aren’t even that much better than Exotics, worse for some builds. I don’t use any ascended items outside of Fractals because what my characters already have better serve them.

Maybe if the ascended items had like double the exotic stats, then it would be a gear treadmill, but as they are right now…they are not much more than mere AR holders, which is redundant if you don’t do Fractals to begin with.

You show me a game with a gear treadmill and I’ll show you a game that requires Gear Score and Recount.

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Of course it cannot. The goal of hardcore minority is to gain a visible advantage over the majority of the players. For them, best stat equipment must be something that everyone wants (and needs), but only few can get. They will never be content with something that lot of people can just ignore.
Obviously, that goal is actively harmful for the rest of the players.
So, a minor advantage gear that is not really needed is not enough for elitist crowd. A major advantage gear that is needed, but is not achievable, on the other hand, will not make the rest of the players happy.
You can appeal to one group, or to other, but never to both (because if you’ll try, you will end with something that will be not enough for elitists, but too much for the casuals).

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Of course it cannot. The goal of hardcore minority is to gain a visible advantage over the majority of the players. For them, best stat equipment must be something that everyone wants (and needs), but only few can get. They will never be content with something that lot of people can just ignore.
Obviously, that goal is actively harmful for the rest of the players.
So, a minor advantage gear that is not really needed is not enough for elitist crowd. A major advantage gear that is needed, but is not achievable, on the other hand, will not make the rest of the players happy.
You can appeal to one group, or to other, but never to both (because if you’ll try, you will end with something that will be not enough for elitists, but too much for the casuals).

we were the group Anet was advertising for! So the hardcore should just accept play or simply leave.

Ascended is breaking the game, and honestly enough is enough.

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Of course it cannot. The goal of hardcore minority is to gain a visible advantage over the majority of the players. For them, best stat equipment must be something that everyone wants (and needs), but only few can get. They will never be content with something that lot of people can just ignore.
Obviously, that goal is actively harmful for the rest of the players.
So, a minor advantage gear that is not really needed is not enough for elitist crowd. A major advantage gear that is needed, but is not achievable, on the other hand, will not make the rest of the players happy.
You can appeal to one group, or to other, but never to both (because if you’ll try, you will end with something that will be not enough for elitists, but too much for the casuals).

we were the group Anet was advertising for! So the hardcore should just accept play or simply leave.

Ascended is breaking the game, and honestly enough is enough.

If its so game breaking why do you still have ppl playing wvw? Could it be that your overexerting for some reason maybe your not the type to play the game longer then 1hr at a time or even worst are you trying to keep this argument going past the point that it having a point. Or worst yet that its not game breaking as you put it and your unwilling to get off your bandwagon because your so invested into the point of view that its become the only one you can see any more.
Look at your post not just here other places i think you lost your objectively to this and other arguments.

Red Falcon.8257:

My opinion is that as long as treadmills effect PvE only they are not an issue.
PvE-only people need their time sinks, let them.

I just dont want +stats.
+stats affects WvW and forces WvW players like me to go grind PvE.

This.

I honestly don’t give a kitten what PvEers have to grind to do more kittenty PvE.

But forcing players to grind fractals for kittenty gear to maintain parity in WvW sucks balls.

Kaede.1267:

Maybe if the ascended items had like double the exotic stats, then it would be a gear treadmill, but as they are right now…they are not much more than mere AR holders, which is redundant if you don’t do Fractals to begin with.

Ascended gear has 14-25% more stats depending on the stat with 1 infusion. I don’t know if you can get a second infusion for another stat bump because I don’t know much about PvElore.

Red Falcon.8257:

Nope.
You can get ascended by just doing laurel dailies or one daily fractal.
Neither of these system require you to “grind” anything.

Both of those examples are the definition of grind.

They are both “go do stupid kitten PvE chores before you can go play WvW”. I’d rather not waste my time and go play some SNES emulator. At least then I can get to playing the game I want to play.

There’s absolutely no reason why ascended gear needs more raw stats. Just leave it with +agonyPvE_gate_stat that no one cares about and be done with it.

Can someone explain to me what is actually being gated? I mean, Ascended gear just allows you to go to the higher level fractal dungeons, except you have access to all the fractal dungeons at level 1.

This is how stupid this all sounds: You refuse to play a lower level fractal because it’s too easy. So you go play a higher level fractal that’s harder. Except now you need Ascended gear to make the higher level fractal easier because it’s too hard…

oh dear lord… another one of these ok
put it this way more gears more gameplay
making it so you can only get amulets from laurels in a way of you making you change up your daily pattern that gets boring so why not do your dalies?(referring to people who have legendarys and got nothing to do with the daily statement)
along with we are going to get acsended armor soon personally i hope you can get that from some other way so basicaly to get the gears

ring = fractals or laurels
back = fractals
amulets laurel
Armor = maybe each peice could be acheivable from something different
we never know

but hey who really cares right? adds more VARIETY of things to do to get your gears other than doing one thing day by day

of course your going to have to grind a dungeon some times but why not switch it up and do something differently just like when you just hit 80 and go i want this gear
then you end up with AC gear then decide nah i want COF and later arrah

the game doesent matter if its a treadmill or not.. it has more variety of things to do to get what you want than any other game in my opinion so really stop whining and just
focus on what ever maybe change up your daily routine

and if you get bored theres NO MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION you can take a break and wait for a few more patches that actually give you alot more content to play with

so really is it worth complaining about? personally i dont think so the game is really some thing special they work there butts off to bring us this game and work on it constantly to keep it stable
i mean seriously if they made you have to do jumping puzzles to get gears youd call it a jumpmill
if they made you do keg brawls youd call it a keg mill

WVW probably does get effected by ascended gears but trust me it doesent matter when your a commander and tons of people follow you who more than likely have acsendeds

that is all..

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Of course it cannot. The goal of hardcore minority is to gain a visible advantage over the majority of the players. For them, best stat equipment must be something that everyone wants (and needs), but only few can get. They will never be content with something that lot of people can just ignore.
Obviously, that goal is actively harmful for the rest of the players.
So, a minor advantage gear that is not really needed is not enough for elitist crowd. A major advantage gear that is needed, but is not achievable, on the other hand, will not make the rest of the players happy.
You can appeal to one group, or to other, but never to both (because if you’ll try, you will end with something that will be not enough for elitists, but too much for the casuals).

we were the group Anet was advertising for! So the hardcore should just accept play or simply leave.

Ascended is breaking the game, and honestly enough is enough.

While encompassing everything else, I’d like to know how you think ascended breaks the game.

First of all, ascended will be obtainable by other methods.

Second of all, you don’t need ascended. Before anyone pulls that “optional” counterargument on me, I’ll present my counterargument to that counterargument: Full exotics lets you play the game 95% as good as having full ascended (as of right now). It’s not the same as saying “It’s optional to play the game naked too” or that “It’s optional to quit the game” (which defeats the entire purpose of the counterargument). Why is it perfectly acceptable to play other MMORPGs in average gear but not GW2?

Thirdly, ascended will be more easily obtained.

Fourthly, maybe new tiers will be introduced, but to say that the ascended fiasco will repeat itself again with its introduction is naive. No one knows how new gear tiers will be introduced.

Lastly, I’m neutral on having ascended on the trading post. It’s nice for sure, but doing so only decreases interest in doing things that could also give ascended.

Heijincks.9267:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Of course it cannot. The goal of hardcore minority is to gain a visible advantage over the majority of the players. For them, best stat equipment must be something that everyone wants (and needs), but only few can get. They will never be content with something that lot of people can just ignore.
Obviously, that goal is actively harmful for the rest of the players.
So, a minor advantage gear that is not really needed is not enough for elitist crowd. A major advantage gear that is needed, but is not achievable, on the other hand, will not make the rest of the players happy.
You can appeal to one group, or to other, but never to both (because if you’ll try, you will end with something that will be not enough for elitists, but too much for the casuals).

we were the group Anet was advertising for! So the hardcore should just accept play or simply leave.

Ascended is breaking the game, and honestly enough is enough.

While encompassing everything else, I’d like to know how you think ascended breaks the game.

First of all, ascended will be obtainable by other methods.

Second of all, you don’t need ascended. Before anyone pulls that “optional” counterargument on me, I’ll present my counterargument to that counterargument: Full exotics lets you play the game 95% as good as having full ascended (as of right now). It’s not the same as saying “It’s optional to play the game naked too” or that “It’s optional to quit the game” (which defeats the entire purpose of the counterargument). Why is it perfectly acceptable to play other MMORPGs in average gear but not GW2?

Thirdly, ascended will be more easily obtained.

Fourthly, maybe new tiers will be introduced, but to say that the ascended fiasco will repeat itself again with its introduction is naive. No one knows how new gear tiers will be introduced.

Lastly, I’m neutral on having ascended on the trading post. It’s nice for sure, but doing so only decreases interest in doing things that could also give ascended.

Your missing the point. There is a different none the less. This game is not dark souls where you can EASILY make the argument -Learn to play. In that game you can theoretically go around the game with a basic sword and shield theortically be able to beat it. GuildWars 2 has a nice dodge option, but that doesn’t mean super deep combat. You can argue that GW1 in some senses had a deeper combat (with all the skills) and this game you are really stuck to one build for PvE, one for PvP and one for dungeons. So damage matters. That 10% really does matter.

We are fine if Anet made the new tier look really amazing. LOOKS are fine. Its stats we don’t want messed around with. Really Anet needs to return back to their manifesto and stop appealing to the WoW crowd.

People are still quite annoyed about fotm, IMAGINE if they add a new tier with an ever greater differece (about 20% I’m guessing), there will be a complete uproar.

Welcome to “gear progression”. The point of a gear treadmill is not to constantly move forward; it’s to run as hard to you can to stay in place. 3 months ago people in full exotics had the best armor in the game. Now, new armor has introduced that is the best armor in the game. Want to hold your position in being the best geared? Then you better start running! But the illusion that is created is of forward progression; the reality is that you only have 2 possible outcomes: remain in the same location, or get left behind.

Eventually level increases will come out, new tiers will come out, etc. This is the path of a modern MMO. If you don’t like it… well, not a lot you can do about, huh?

Tolmos.8395:

Welcome to “gear progression”. The point of a gear treadmill is not to constantly move forward; it’s to run as hard to you can to stay in place. 3 months ago people in full exotics had the best armor in the game. Now, new armor has introduced that is the best armor in the game. Want to hold your position in being the best geared? Then you better start running! But the illusion that is created is of forward progression; the reality is that you only have 2 possible outcomes: remain in the same location, or get left behind.

Eventually level increases will come out, new tiers will come out, etc. This is the path of a modern MMO. If you don’t like it… well, not a lot you can do about, huh?

But this was not what we the community were promised when we bought Gw2.

Btw your signature is perfect. For that you deserve a +1

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Mackdose.6504:

Revolution.6301:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Ironically, if you go to the Crafting subforum, people are actually complaining that they have too much ascended and can’t do anything with them.

Yes, there is a small subset of players that vendor their ascended eq for few silver pieces because they ran out of bank slots, and there is a much larger subset that cannot realistically hope to obtain that tier eq. With each new piece, new eq level or new tier that split is going to widen, until even the least-observant casuals will start noticing that they are being left behind, and that game is no longer aimed at them.

Exactly.

Well Anet has changed things but adding Ascended so no the game slowly is being diverted from appealing to them to appealing to the hardcore. Fotm was a HUGE step.

So it can’t appeal to both? Only one or the other? That seems rather closed-minded.

Of course it cannot. The goal of hardcore minority is to gain a visible advantage over the majority of the players. For them, best stat equipment must be something that everyone wants (and needs), but only few can get. They will never be content with something that lot of people can just ignore.
Obviously, that goal is actively harmful for the rest of the players.
So, a minor advantage gear that is not really needed is not enough for elitist crowd. A major advantage gear that is needed, but is not achievable, on the other hand, will not make the rest of the players happy.
You can appeal to one group, or to other, but never to both (because if you’ll try, you will end with something that will be not enough for elitists, but too much for the casuals).

we were the group Anet was advertising for! So the hardcore should just accept play or simply leave.

Ascended is breaking the game, and honestly enough is enough.

I really do not see your problem, you are provided access to a game with no additional outlay after the box price, you get unlimited playtime in which to achieve the same as everyone else… if ANET didnt add new gear, new content, new mechanics.. then pretty soon we would all be running round in the same gear, running the same content to get the same things, growing bored of the same content, bosses, tactics and yes mechaincs… do you not see that if they dont adapt and try to develop the game to cater for different demographics then the game will simply cease to exist in no time at all.

Every thread I see on this forum surrounding gear treadmills is bloated with your posts whinning about the same things over and over.
You say you have a limited play time and that ANET developed this game for you… when reality suggests they developed a game for a Mass Market which had some unique ways of gameplay that could appeal to the more casual player like yourself.. that still remains because you are not forced to play the gear gate game (if you really truly wanna call it that) its just optional content for players to try out when they reach endgame, as an alternative to playing Openworld and dungeons over and over to build up enough resources to get your legendaries.
Ascended gear is really nothing special outside of FotM, so please, dont make out its breaking the game because you can complete everythng in game with just your Rare/Exotics gear as well as be just as successful in WvW…. its merely cosmetics and a few points of extra stat that make no real difference. Heck you dont even need Ascended gear really until you hit a certain level in FotM.
But all you keep saying is Ascended gear is a treadmill, its gamebreaking and you have been lied to, let down and victimised cos you only have limited time whereas others who play more can get it all quicker etc etc etc.
The silly thing is, if you could force yourself to stop posting the same “ANET broke their mystical promise”, or “Loot is borked, blah blah blah” then you would likely have a heck of alot more time to go do things in game instead of bleating you have such a limited time to acheive things and want it all handed to you so you can keep up with the Smiths.

Some people just cant enjoy a game without whining victimisation.
Im guessing had they left it all as it was back 3-4 months ago.. you would likely be on here complaining of nothing to do and the game is boring and stale.
ANET or any game developer will never win either way. – - Devil if they do, Devil if they dont!!

Bloodstealer.5978:

ANET or any game developer will never win either way. – -Devil if they do, Devil if they dont!!

I’ll leave this relevant XKCD strip here:

http://xkcd.com/1172/

This pretty much sums up everything about doing games, software, or anything. There’s just no pleasing 100% of the people 100% of the time.

Revolution.6301:

Heijincks.9267:

Revolution.6301:

we were the group Anet was advertising for! So the hardcore should just accept play or simply leave.

Ascended is breaking the game, and honestly enough is enough.

While encompassing everything else, I’d like to know how you think ascended breaks the game.

First of all, ascended will be obtainable by other methods.

Second of all, you don’t need ascended. Before anyone pulls that “optional” counterargument on me, I’ll present my counterargument to that counterargument: Full exotics lets you play the game 95% as good as having full ascended (as of right now). It’s not the same as saying “It’s optional to play the game naked too” or that “It’s optional to quit the game” (which defeats the entire purpose of the counterargument). Why is it perfectly acceptable to play other MMORPGs in average gear but not GW2?

Thirdly, ascended will be more easily obtained.

Fourthly, maybe new tiers will be introduced, but to say that the ascended fiasco will repeat itself again with its introduction is naive. No one knows how new gear tiers will be introduced.

Lastly, I’m neutral on having ascended on the trading post. It’s nice for sure, but doing so only decreases interest in doing things that could also give ascended.

Your missing the point. There is a different none the less. This game is not dark souls where you can EASILY make the argument -Learn to play. In that game you can theoretically go around the game with a basic sword and shield theortically be able to beat it. GuildWars 2 has a nice dodge option, but that doesn’t mean super deep combat. You can argue that GW1 in some senses had a deeper combat (with all the skills) and this game you are really stuck to one build for PvE, one for PvP and one for dungeons. So damage matters. That 10% really does matter.

We are fine if Anet made the new tier look really amazing. LOOKS are fine. Its stats we don’t want messed around with. Really Anet needs to return back to their manifesto and stop appealing to the WoW crowd.

People are still quite annoyed about fotm, IMAGINE if they add a new tier with an ever greater differece (about 20% I’m guessing), there will be a complete uproar.

If you’re going to argue that the 5-10% difference is really that significant, then that’s your opinion.

I don’t have ascended gear save for a few random pieces I picked up in Fractals that don’t even match my build. Yet I do just fine in WvW. I mean the difference is so negligible that one single lucky crit in exotic gear makes up for the damage I would have gained with ascended.

Heijincks.9267:

I don’t have ascended gear save for a few random pieces I picked up in Fractals that don’t even match my build. Yet I do just fine in WvW. I mean the difference is so negligible that one single lucky crit in exotic gear makes up for the damage I would have gained with ascended.

No, it doesn’t. The person in ascended gear is going to get lucky crits as well. In fact, his crit chance (and crit damage) will likely be higher.

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

I don’t have ascended gear save for a few random pieces I picked up in Fractals that don’t even match my build. Yet I do just fine in WvW. I mean the difference is so negligible that one single lucky crit in exotic gear makes up for the damage I would have gained with ascended.

No, it doesn’t. The person in ascended gear is going to get lucky crits as well. In fact, his crit chance (and crit damage) will likely be higher.

Perhaps. 1v1 just standing there and whacking each other with 50% chance crit, the ascended guy probably will have a slightly higher than 50% chance winning.

That being said, that’s hardly anything, let alone game breaking. It’s also not practical in a real fight. Hits miss. Reaction times count. Builds are different. Is such a slight difference really going to make a huge difference in the fight?

Not to mention most fights aren’t 1v1. Okay sure, maybe the other guy was on par with you, but how often does that happen? Ascended isn’t a crutch to lean on.

Heijincks.9267:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

I don’t have ascended gear save for a few random pieces I picked up in Fractals that don’t even match my build. Yet I do just fine in WvW. I mean the difference is so negligible that one single lucky crit in exotic gear makes up for the damage I would have gained with ascended.

No, it doesn’t. The person in ascended gear is going to get lucky crits as well. In fact, his crit chance (and crit damage) will likely be higher.

Perhaps. 1v1 just standing there and whacking each other with 50% chance crit, the ascended guy probably will have a slightly higher than 50% chance winning.

That being said, that’s hardly anything, let alone game breaking. It’s also not practical in a real fight. Hits miss. Reaction times count. Builds are different. Is such a slight difference really going to make a huge difference in the fight?

Currently? No. With full ascended set? It’s going to be significant.

Not to mention most fights aren’t 1v1. Okay sure, maybe the other guy was on par with you, but how often does that happen? Ascended isn’t a crutch to lean on.

I’m definitely not going to enjoy seeing full ascended burst thieves in WvW in any mode of play. They are a problem as it is. With 20% extra damage…

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

Astralporing.1957:

Heijincks.9267:

I don’t have ascended gear save for a few random pieces I picked up in Fractals that don’t even match my build. Yet I do just fine in WvW. I mean the difference is so negligible that one single lucky crit in exotic gear makes up for the damage I would have gained with ascended.

No, it doesn’t. The person in ascended gear is going to get lucky crits as well. In fact, his crit chance (and crit damage) will likely be higher.

Perhaps. 1v1 just standing there and whacking each other with 50% chance crit, the ascended guy probably will have a slightly higher than 50% chance winning.

That being said, that’s hardly anything, let alone game breaking. It’s also not practical in a real fight. Hits miss. Reaction times count. Builds are different. Is such a slight difference really going to make a huge difference in the fight?

Currently? No. With full ascended set? It’s going to be significant.

Not to mention most fights aren’t 1v1. Okay sure, maybe the other guy was on par with you, but how often does that happen? Ascended isn’t a crutch to lean on.

I’m definitely not going to enjoy seeing full ascended burst thieves in WvW in any mode of play. They are a problem as it is. With 20% extra damage…

By the time ascended is fully released, it’ll be easier to obtain, and definitely not just through the current methods. Or at least we hope.