Guild Wars 2

Forum bug is awesome…

As a returning player I am confused how this will effect my old characters who well into their personal story before level 30, are they just reset or something else?

NPE? Okay, I go away for 8 months and this happens.. My first impulse was to shudder, as that reminded me of SOE’s NGE in SWG. Which was unfun..

But I’ll remain somewhat positive.

Doggie.3184:

Cuz too much of the gaming community simply isn’t as intelligent or patient enough to understand GW2. They tried to give the game lots of freedom but too many people were easily lost in it because they either never played an MMO or were too spoiled by handholding in other ones. Many people are apparently too shy to join a guild and ask questions instead of figuring out things on their own as well and I guess Anet wants to tie a leash (of love) around them somehow.

So basically, the entire human race as a whole have failed you, not Anet. =/ Giving people nearly everything at the get-go and sending them into a free world is too much for an innocent sheep to handle.

I find it baffling that you think you can speak for the entire GW2 community – no – for the entire human race. I’m not sure if you’re serious or not but what you said is completely unfounded and quite frankly ridiculous…

Gamers are among the most intelligent bunch I’ve ever met, more so when we’re talking about (MMO)RPG players. Real gamers (e.g. someone who has gaming as a major hobby and identifies himself as a gamer) don’t need hand-holding and in fact hate it, as is clearly demonstrated with all the hate and vitriol that is spewed on the forums and in-game about the NPE.

I don’t think anyone who played at least some videogames before GW2 was actually confused with GW2 (other than that some gamers who came from other MMOs to GW2 might have been a little confused about certain things because GW2 does things differently from other MMOs, but the NPE didn’t change that).

While real new players (who aren’t just new to GW2 but also rather new to gaming in general) might be fine with the NPE, older players and more experienced gamers are not. I’m pretty sure the latter group is in the vast majority and so I have no clue why Anet thought the NPE would be a good idea…

Geneaux.9547:

HandOfKane.5409:

Geneaux.9547:

Shouldn’t this be stickied?

Looks to be a pretty important thread.

Of course not! How could Anet continue pretending that this thread doesn’t exist if it was stickied?

Sarcasm aside, and blatant necros, what’s the likelihood they’ll revisit a thread with no community input in the last 2 months?

It’s not happenin’ if we say nothing. People are inherently lazy and pursue any and all forms of convenience; stickies mitigate this.

No community input in the last 2 months? Well, maybe because community got tired of talking with no response back… Also, that’s not true. If you mean this thread it has gotten input frequently and hardly has been more than 1 month without input.

The company should have explained the UI and event monitor better and how it works in respect to the maps are on, as no one seems to figure out how events work together to open up key areas and thing don’t get done on a map in a timely manner and places that we need opened such as, Balthazar Temple, Incendio Templum, COE, COF to name a few, are closed all day long as everyone ignores events as they don’t know they are all related in some way.

The map is pretty simple but I wish the world map would flash events in the region you were in, not just the mini map. That way players can go “Oh hey an event way over there, I should go and see if people are doing it!” Also the little note in top right corner doesn’t always tell you if something is happening if you’re on the other side of the map.

I really don’t understand why NPE was needed to begin with. The game was EASY to understand when it first launched. I had no problems learning. The UI explained everything. As much as ANET likes to deny it, the NPE was made cause the game launched in China last year. Their version of GW 2 was made almost identical to the NPE we got now.

It was hard to get my friend into this game cause they felt frustrated with the lack of abilities they had access to, not to mention content. Thankfully they were able to get to level 20 no problem but they have told me the whole NPE was extremely silly. Especially when they watched old GW 2 gameplay vids.

Jinroh.4251:

The map is pretty simple but I wish the world map would flash events in the region you were in, not just the mini map. ….

Like this?

Except that it doesn’t show events that occur anywhere in the zone. You happen to be close enough for it to show…that is clear in the map, is the escort up near the north entry into LA? Would you know without waypointing there? No, you wouldn’t unless someone called it out.

Yeah NPE was possibly the worst thing about the game now. Literally everything about it apart from getting rewards to level is counter productive.

The new trait system is absolutely terrible beyond a doubt. It makes classes harder to level and leveling more boring and sucky because you have to wait a ridiculously long time to get traits that are core to a class to even function.

As a still new-ish player, I have nothing to compare against my time leveling now.

~shrugs~

Necrotic.7820:

Except that it doesn’t show events that occur anywhere in the zone. You happen to be close enough for it to show…that is clear in the map, is the escort up near the north entry into LA? Would you know without waypointing there? No, you wouldn’t unless someone called it out.

I remember a long time ago before they put the event indicators in the map that a red post said they didn’t want to show all the events on a map because the far away ones might be over before you could get to them.

With waypointing, that’s not really a consideration but that seems to be their reason for not showing all events.

Source

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

I definitely agree that in-game world boss availability messaging is something that should be implemented and it’s something we would like to do.

One thing I’ve always enjoyed about map completion is the abundance of things to do in any order I wish. Events could sort of have this nature if we showed them map-wide. But even telling players about events that are across a single map can be tricky business depending on the nature of that event. A number of events can be completed well within the time that it would take to travel to it from even the nearest waypoint. Yet a good argument for showing them anyway would be a map such as Dry Top or the Crown Pavilion, wherein you might care about the state of the events even if you don’t plan on participating in them.

Do you think that showing all of these events makes the map feel cluttered? Would it make finding the information you care about more difficult?

Perhaps something like the LFG list window which I could open or not. Click shows me where it is on the world map (M). How I get there is my problem. Lists events only for my current map/zone:

[“Kill the annoying skritt”][since 2min][click to show on map]
…

I think a progress indicator for all types of events is to difficult and not needed.

Endless Soul.5178:

As a still new-ish player, I have nothing to compare against my time leveling now.

~shrugs~

And this shows exactly what Anet were trying to do and accomplish. Ive played since beta and fully support NPE as it actually seems like you gain something from levels. I was level 20 with all my skills i will ever get unlockable, this put me off leveling and just made new classes to see what they could do.

It became a grind for the sake of getting to level 80.
This is completely different now where you actually progress through the levels and new players actually see what is happening when they level up and what they will achieve.
Alot of my friends left the game due to the fact that they felt there was no progression and nothing was happening through leveling. They didn’t feel any reason to level up, meaning they didn’t feel the want to play as MMOs are mainly focused around leveling and getting to the max level.

Sure the so called “veterans” are getting upset over change, but its for the better. You understand the game now and know where everything is so unlocking traits shouldn’t be hard, using tomes of knowledge shouldn’t be hard and you will even have a spare few level 20 scrolls, let alone a stack of skill points.

You had two years to make characters the old way, now you complain because its different and actually has progression. If it stays how it is for two more years, it will just become part of the game and you will have to get used to it.

NPE is here to stay.

Yeah locking up everything behind level-gate requires less grind than the old-fashioned way.

All hail NPE and its super progression ideas!

Phoenixlin.8624:

Yeah locking up everything behind level-gate requires less grind than the old-fashioned way.

All hail NPE and its super progression ideas!

Yea try to level an engi now with the npe. 1 pistol and no kits… was worried the fun might start.

Basaltface.2786:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Yeah locking up everything behind level-gate requires less grind than the old-fashioned way.

All hail NPE and its super progression ideas!

Yea try to level an engi now with the npe. 1 pistol and no kits… was worried the fun might start.

Engineers are by far the hardest hit by the nightmare that is the NPE. The pistol or rifle deal potato damage and you spend a lot of time killing every mob… it’s a nightmare.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Basaltface.2786:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Yeah locking up everything behind level-gate requires less grind than the old-fashioned way.

All hail NPE and its super progression ideas!

Yea try to level an engi now with the npe. 1 pistol and no kits… was worried the fun might start.

Engineers are by far the hardest hit by the nightmare that is the NPE. The pistol or rifle deal potato damage and you spend a lot of time killing every mob… it’s a nightmare.

Yeap… Making an alt engi atm. Its agony and boredom

How is this related to NPE?

Phoenixlin.8624:

Yeah locking up everything behind level-gate requires less grind than the old-fashioned way.

All hail NPE and its super progression ideas!

Old fashion way? Where you get every skill and combination at level 20? You are just upset something changed and you cant deal with it. You actually think its hard to level in this game?
Your definition of grind must relate to something taking time. If you dont enjoy a part of the game dont play it. Play for fun right? I have played many MMOs that have actual gear grind and level grind, and i enjoyed them. This game has literally 0 grind, in MMO terms.

And engi has always been a boring and slow leveling class, much like ele. I got to level 10 as an engi before NPE and it was boring as kitten. Not taking long, boring.

At level 10 old player experience I could have a grenade kit already, and have gained 5 skill points from just leveling. However, with NPE the level 13 is reached much much faster, so in this regard, leveling is faster.

What hurts is how the traits are: Grandmaster slots unlock on 80? Masters on 60? Was this really necessary? Or putting trait unlocks on slow to repeat events, that are over by the time I get there (I mean Lord Ignius the Eternal. I ported to the nearest wp but not even permaswiftness was enough). That and compressing 1/3 of the trait points into the last 10 levels. Those are pure stupid.

The great defense argument of all times: “If you don’t like it, don’t play it. Because I can’t find any other argument to refute your basic arguments!”

Yeah if you don’t like it, don’t level up. You should open a suggestion topic for it.

NPE is just another way to say "Hey new players! We think that you are all dumb and brainless creatures that can’t understand any mechanism in this game, if we don’t create you an illusion of progressing!

For instance we hid red triangles from map! Why? Because the idea of ‘Vista’ is too complicated and you shouldn’t bother your precious brain with it until level X!

Don’t bother veteran players, because they born with the superior knowledge which made them handle all the hardships we put in this game before NPE! And having every (weapon) skill in level 20 is the greatest nemesis for them!"

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

The company should have explained the UI and event monitor better and how it works in respect to the maps are on, as no one seems to figure out how events work together to open up key areas and thing don’t get done on a map in a timely manner and places that we need opened such as, Balthazar Temple, Incendio Templum, COE, COF to name a few, are closed all day long as everyone ignores events as they don’t know they are all related in some way.

If people cant figure out how a meta event works, expecting them to figure out how to use the UI and/or an event menu would be a fruitless endeavor.

All the meta info is on the wiki. Nobody reads.

If you have enough people that care to event launch though, a handful of players can do the whole thing on their own, minus some taxing bosses.

RE The new changes to NPE:

Leveling up is so painful now compared to what it was, that my alts are all leveled with tomes obtained from PVP.

I refuse to suffer.

I cant imagine how bad a brand new player has it, having to unlock vistas and the trading post and stuff incrementally because the focus group chosen to playtest GW2 had literacy and comprehension deficiencies and having too many options to sift through at the get-go somehow made people not want to play the game.

They’re godkitten UIs. Don’t open them if you don’t know what they do, and read the wiki. Jesus.

heartless.6803:

The new trait system is absolutely terrible beyond a doubt. It makes classes harder to level and leveling more boring and sucky because you have to wait a ridiculously long time to get traits that are core to a class to even function.

I’m not going to defend the trait system as I agree it was a step backwards, but there are absolutely no traits that are so core to a class to make it not functional while leveling up.

Why do I say this? Because I’ve leveled up 2 alts now during NPE and have hit 80 no problem. Once you hit 80 you can start worrying about what kind of traits you need for specific dungeon runs, fractals, wvw, whatever. But while leveling up you absolutely do not need any of them. I’ve hit 80 without spending a single trait point (through normal map completion means, and not EoTM). Quite honestly I forget I even have trait points.

Lyp Sao.1375:

Jinroh.4251:

The map is pretty simple but I wish the world map would flash events in the region you were in, not just the mini map. ….

Like this?

I think OP meant all the events occurring in the map instance you are in should appear on the world map instead of flashing the “nearest” event to the player.

DanteZero.9736:

I think OP meant all the events occurring in the map instance you are in should appear on the world map instead of flashing the “nearest” event to the player.

nooo!

Panites.6798:

And this shows exactly what Anet were trying to do and accomplish. Ive played since beta and fully support NPE as it actually seems like you gain something from levels. I was level 20 with all my skills i will ever get unlockable, this put me off leveling and just made new classes to see what they could do.

It became a grind for the sake of getting to level 80.
This is completely different now where you actually progress through the levels and new players actually see what is happening when they level up and what they will achieve.
Alot of my friends left the game due to the fact that they felt there was no progression and nothing was happening through leveling. They didn’t feel any reason to level up, meaning they didn’t feel the want to play as MMOs are mainly focused around leveling and getting to the max level.

Sure the so called “veterans” are getting upset over change, but its for the better. You understand the game now and know where everything is so unlocking traits shouldn’t be hard, using tomes of knowledge shouldn’t be hard and you will even have a spare few level 20 scrolls, let alone a stack of skill points.

You had two years to make characters the old way, now you complain because its different and actually has progression. If it stays how it is for two more years, it will just become part of the game and you will have to get used to it.

NPE is here to stay.

Yeah! Screw everyone who disagrees with me! If they can’t agree with me that the NPE is the best thing since sliced bread, then they’re just to dumb to know the truth! Just kitten and GTFO!

Two weeks later:

Hey, where did everyone go? Everyone who disagreed with me left, that’s like 7/8 of the players! Now I have no one to do events or dungeons with!

Yeah…might wanna rethink your argument.

I also love how you automatically assume that all “veterans” have tons and tons of skill tomes, tomes of knowledge and lvl 20 scrolls, or that they would even want to speed level as fast as possible, instead of playing the game however they want at their own pace. Which is, you know, how the game was prominently and consistently marketed as pre-NPE.

Yay for another sudden merge :P

Phoenixlin.8624:

Yeah locking up everything behind level-gate requires less grind than the old-fashioned way.

All hail NPE and its super progression ideas!

At first I thought it were some sarcasm.. O.o

Endless Soul.5178:

As a still new-ish player, I have nothing to compare against my time leveling now.

~shrugs~

Again, that’s what I’m still curious and nobody has came back to answer… I still wonder what a brand new player would think of it if they knew how it was before. I mean if they heard or saw through videos so not experiencing it and only experiencing this NPE. Would their opinion change? What would they prefer? That’s what I still want to know… Again, from what I see it’s possible that a brand new player wouldn’t see issues on it because they have nothing to compare to, or what they have is worse than the bad parts of this NPE. Still wonders…

Draknar.5748:

heartless.6803:

The new trait system is absolutely terrible beyond a doubt. It makes classes harder to level and leveling more boring and sucky because you have to wait a ridiculously long time to get traits that are core to a class to even function.

I’m not going to defend the trait system as I agree it was a step backwards, but there are absolutely no traits that are so core to a class to make it not functional while leveling up.

Why do I say this? Because I’ve leveled up 2 alts now during NPE and have hit 80 no problem. Once you hit 80 you can start worrying about what kind of traits you need for specific dungeon runs, fractals, wvw, whatever. But while leveling up you absolutely do not need any of them. I’ve hit 80 without spending a single trait point (through normal map completion means, and not EoTM). Quite honestly I forget I even have trait points.

Oh, you’ve leveled up all two of the professions so you can unequivocally say that there are no traits so core to a class to make it not functional while leveling up? Huh. Well, it’s a good thing there aren’t eight professions with their own strengths and weaknesses.

And if you’re arguing that traits are meaningless (“…honestly, I forget I even have trait points.”), I’m kind of wondering if that’s an even bigger indictment of the entire system. I cannot possibly imagine finding the difference in having traits negligible, and while I was known to forget to assign points right away at times, I also can tell the difference in a well-traited character, versus untraited.

Having played both pre and post-NGE, as well as 10 years of MMO experience and 25 years of gaming:

- I am VERY grateful I had 5 characters created prior to NGE last year. Since then I’ve leveled a new warrior, and an engineer. Both were beneficiaries of Experience scrolls (so basically started at level 20). Both of them are post NPE, though.

- The slow unlocking of weapon skills just makes early level combat very stale. As someone who has parroted this game over other MMOs, this can tend to be a turn off to any new players who happen to be veterans of other MMOs (or games, even).

- Trait unlock system, while on the surface looks like a great idea, is a hassle. On my post NGE characters, I’ve had to either go around my hindquarters to get to my elbow…er trait unlocks, or simply save up skill points/cash and buy them. With the engineer in particular, I have had to buy all of his, since I literally had none unlocked upon unlocking traits in general. If Anet insists on keeping this in place to promote exploration of the game…maybe make the unlocks account wide? Otherwise, I would simply ask to have the old system back.

- Leveling rewards: I like getting items/loot upon leveling. That is really nice. I’m not so fond of how skill points and attributes come in chunks, though. I would rather see them be more gradual and consistent. Nothing like being a skill point or two short for buying that first elite skill, going out of the way to get the points, then BOOM, there’s 7-8 points at level 33 or 34 (I forget which; wasn’t long after unlocking elite at 31 though, iirc).

- Personal Story: Like skill points and attributes, I don’t like how this comes in chunks, either. I liked it prior to NPE, where you could do a story quest, then go out in the world and gain a level or two, then if you wanted to jump right back on your quest, now you can. As it stands now, I’m simply leveling alts all the way to 80, then doing world completion, and if time permits prior to HoT release, I’ll do the story quests on them, so that I can do them in one fell swoop.

These are my experiences, so I speak only for me. I see the intent of the NPE, but I believe overall it misses the mark. It has some positives, as I’ve pointed out, but overall, I believe it’s an shining example of the adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. The game wasn’t totally broken prior to NPE.

Lyp Sao.1375:

DanteZero.9736:

I think OP meant all the events occurring in the map instance you are in should appear on the world map instead of flashing the “nearest” event to the player.

nooo!

Speaking of events, this might explain a few things…

GrandHaven.1052:

How is this related to NPE?

If you are asking how is engineer damage related to NPE, it’s simple: since the NPE, level 1-2 chars only have one weapon skill they can use, one healing skill and no utility skills. Engineer weapons do potato damage by themelves, you need kits to be able to do something if you don’t have traits. Since kits are utility skills, and since NPE new chars can’t use utility skills until a certain level, and then only 1 by 1 instead of 3 at lvl 1 like it was before… I think you get it.

One more… https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Map-Completion-Bar/ >.<

Here we go again…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ashford-Forum-Heart-Bugged/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Please-fix-Fighting-pit-for-Heart/

i got a gap in my currently lvl 80 ranger. i was a lvl 64 ranger when i my system died. when i finally got one working system for the game, the entire game got updated and a was going for someone who i had no idea i needed with a person i never knew i had.

Tachenon.5270:

Lyp Sao.1375:

DanteZero.9736:

I think OP meant all the events occurring in the map instance you are in should appear on the world map instead of flashing the “nearest” event to the player.

nooo!

Speaking of events, this might explain a few things…

My maps never ever look like that. None of them.

Nothing was broken before but it is now. Leveling is horrible since NPE.
So why not just use to old leveling system but keep the rewards?
This way everyone would be happy.

The NPE treats players like idiots. There’s a difference between pointing out facets of the game and helping to pace abilities and cutting players’ legs out from under them. Easier fights in starter zones is the norm, but this is sad.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

GrandHaven.1052:

How is this related to NPE?

If you are asking how is engineer damage related to NPE, it’s simple: since the NPE, level 1-2 chars only have one weapon skill they can use, one healing skill and no utility skills. Engineer weapons do potato damage by themelves, you need kits to be able to do something if you don’t have traits. Since kits are utility skills, and since NPE new chars can’t use utility skills until a certain level, and then only 1 by 1 instead of 3 at lvl 1 like it was before… I think you get it.

Engineer leveling is not for the faint of heart with the NPE for sure.

Prototypemind.4026:

The NPE treats players like idiots. There’s a difference between pointing out facets of the game and helping to pace abilities and cutting players’ legs out from under them. Easier fights in starter zones is the norm, but this is sad.

It’s pretty clear that the NPE was to save the Chinese player base, as they said that the NPE was based on thousands of feedback comments.

So they changed it, had no Chinese retention,and kittenedoffthe western player base. Woot! Go NPE, you go,girl!

Funny thing is there’s a thread on page one of general posted by a Chinese player saying the dumbing down of the game is one of the core reasons the game is doing so poorly over there.

And one more... https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Map-issue/

Can’t they see that it made things more confused instead helpfull... *sighs*

A Cure Worse Than The Disease

The grand irony of the NPE is that the developers became alarmed that a large percentage of players weren’t using traits and were otherwise lagging behind as they leveled up, so rather than educating them directly about these features, they redesigned the game to make everyone play the way they tried to “fix” in the first place.

Here’s hoping this benighted method of problem solving is no longer in vogue at ArenaNet.

Here we go again… https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/No-water-at-Jeb-s-Wheatfield

It’s so hard and overwhelming to pick up an item at a place and use it at another…. [sarcasm mode off]

Played originally on a family members account beforr NPE. Havijg come back and tried it for awhile I have to say I hate the changes.

Feels very restricting. Level based weapon and secondary unlocks was mostly upsetting. Dumbed down events like Jebs wheatfield kind of ruined the original fun and coordination with others involved. I think some heart quests had “options” removed as well.

Storyline dumps at 10 level intervals are kind of inconsistent with some of the narratives that suggest you come back a little later for the next quest. The pacing was much better as it was originally.

Edit: oh, hiding map completion until 15 was very annoying. As is thd locked skill challenges until 13. I know it’s account based after that, but still.

I also have gripes with the free gear that is better thsn anything that can be crafted or looted.
I don’t know. I feel like it’s an annoying and linear experience now starting a new character

One more… https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/All-skill-challenges/ :P How user friendly the NPE is… (nop)

And btw, one of the dumb NPE features is causing more trouble than it should: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Skill-Bar-Bug

Is it possible to see the return of the removed activities that were in the starter zones? They added a bit of downtime and side activity to do. Doesn’t even have to be linked to quests really just have then there for fun. Can grant a bonus chest if playing for x minutes or after full round.

Edit: How about all the environmental weapons that used to be around too?

Will we still need to “entertain the cows” at that Queensdale heart?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Will we still need to “entertain the cows” at that Queensdale heart?

Sadly, the poor starving cows may soon be extinct (save for those who manage to escape and take up a feral lifestyle in regions where neither human, norn, charr, asura, or sylviar are able to go) before the only truly sentient species native to Tyria reclaims its lost heritage and comes to their rescue.

TL;DR — probably.