Guild Wars 2

Conski Deshan.2057:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Suggestions would be wonderful: Practical, reasonably expressed, and clear. Here’s the challenge, and we’ll see if it’s possible and reasonable: Share your opinion about how to improve the end game in (roughly) 100 words or less.

I want to define my version of endgame before suggesting: It is a series of increasingly hard content that provides unique, untradeable/unsellable , Visible rewards. With an aim of distinguishing skilled players allowing them to stand out visually from the masses.
[/spoiler]

I’ll disagree with you there. If they do introduce hard/reasonably long content, it will have a lot more adventage to have the rewards sellable, but hard earned. By making it sellable that content will have a lot more replayability, and if you don’t like those thing that content has to offer, you can sell that item to those, who don’t actually like hard content. Also even after you earned that content’s skin, you can replay it to make reasonable amount of money.

Also, and it’s very important, I don’t consider winning the lottery hard-earned money, in other words, don’t rely only on RNG. You can make RNG a player’s friend but the way it’s in the game right now it’s the player enemy. Look at TA aether path,fractals or the black lion chests. What I suggest is a system like DoA had with rewards. You can earn your gemstones by completing content 100%, but they also drop from random enemies. You can put RNG on chest to contain additional unique rewards too, or on bosses.

In Season 1 we had several teams which rotated creating different content: some story missions (very stale compared to season 2 story missions), some jumping puzzles, dungeons, a world boss. Some people complained about the lack of repeatable permanent story content.

Season 2: Anet focussed entirely on story missions (repeatable, more challenging than before, permanent, heavy story emphasis,) AND a whole new exciting zone (including jumping puzzles). That’s exactly what some players wanted, but leaves others out completely.

Personally I would like to see a mix of S1 and S2: a bit less story missions (but in the same quality) and instead of story episode 6-8 a dungeon alongside the story. I also would love to see a world-boss (redone like Tequatl or a new one) which are challenging like Tequatl. Something for everyone in regular intervals.

(+ I also agree that rewards feel underwhelming in GW2. Season 2 had some awesome steps in the right direction though (rewards for geodes, crafting new weapons, Mawdrey,…) but loot from mobs feels really bland imho. Add more interesting stuff (rare bag drops, mini drops, quest-starting items,…)

fireflyry.7023:

In my honest opinion it dates back to GW1 and GvG. The game slowly but surely slid towards PvE. I don’t blame Anet or hold that against them…it makes good business sense. PvErs grinding equates to a better business model overall….and your right…they make great PvE and have created a great world here but it’s full of braindead mobs.

Look at the world boss loop…a bunch of players spamming 1-3 range skills till chest then mapping to the next boss. That’s GW2?

I guess I’m jaded, I bought the collectors edition of Nightfall. After the goodness of Factions I was stoked to hear that they were going to release NF as a mainly PvE content expansion as they also announced, in the DVD included with the CE, the next release would be focused on PvP.

Then EotN dropped. The biggest grindfest I’d had the displeasure of playing .PvP was totally neglected and died. So I waited for GW2…and then that released which PvP wise is basically one format AB, one of the least favored formats of PvP in GW1.

How people take it seriously or tourny it baffles me. It’s fun for sure but compare it to GvG in GW1.

This game is screaming for GvG or at least some form of variation in PvP.

Like I said in another thread, there was not much else to add to PvP after factions. There were no casual forms of PvP and anet solved that with AB/FA/JQ. They made PvP more rewarding than any other part of the game by adding tournament reward points and zaishen keys, and the meta changed quite often. HA/GvG is still my best PvP experience and if the game industry goes this way it will stay like that.
Also I’m not sure GW2 has the potential to be as good in PvP as the first was.

• Allow us to convert bloodstone dust, dragonite ore, and empharyl fragments to permanently boost account gold gain, exp gain, and karma gain (just like how luck from blues/greens can permanently increase magic find)
• Bring back weapon-set-specific claim tickets (e.g. fused weapon claim ticket, winters weapon claim ticket, jade weapon claim ticket) for every single black lion set, permanently purchasable for the same price (in BL weapon tickets) that the set is currently selling for
• Remove RNG from precursors and make them obtainable only from vendor purchase at 3000g a piece

Open World

Continue to modify and polish small things around the world. This is actually one of the things Anet does extremely well. I was just in Snowden Drifts the other day, and I noticed that a bridge that had been under construction, seemingly forever, was finally finished. The only suggestion I can make here is perhaps some things should happen faster?

More interactivity. Things like turning torches on and off (something you have to do for certain renown heart quests). Opening and closing doors. Immersive stuff. There is some good stuff in the game – the goal should be to make everything in the game interactive and immersive.

For example, there are many buildings in Divinity’s Reach that are simply deco. Give them doors, and let us enter them (even if they’re empty). Do this for every building in the world (btw, I was very pleasantly surprised to find dead end alley had an instance last time I walked over that direction).

Give every NPC a ‘job’. By ‘job’ I merely mean that everyone should be doing something, not just standing around. Each NPC has a purpose, a reason for being wherever it is they are – even if it’s just watering some plants. Give them simple tasks that they perform repetitively – mopping floors (in taverns), watering plants (near gardens), etc. There are too many listless lollygaggers.

More meaningful day/night cycle and real darkness – and not just in the open air, but inside walls and caves. I’d love to see something similar to Diablo 2’s light radius stat, with real darkness in doors. Rain should reduce lighting as well when you’re outside. Make more lighting sources, and make them a dynamic part of the game (monsters can snuff out lights to make things more dangerous).

Get rid of renown heart quests entirely. Replace them with smaller scale, shorter DE’s (in most places, those DE’s are already there anyway….)

Get rid of the majority of monsters “standing around in a field twiddling their thumbs” – like other NPC’s, all monsters should be doing something for a reason. Like the DE’s, they should actually be doing something, instead of just standing around. Get rid of everything else – increase the XP reward (since there will be fewer).

Add new ‘explorer’ skills or mechanics (these don’t have to be actual “skills” – just the means to do it). Like climbing (ladders, ropes, vines, etc.), mountain goating (perhaps a skill that allows you to climb progressively steeper inclines, decreasing the angle at which your character will slip??), rappelling, rock climbing, etc. Let us climb trees.

Expansion

Release expansion level content – whether this is through an actual expansion, DLC, or through the LS, matters not to me.

Expansion level content:

15-20 new maps.
1 new class.
1 new race.
1 new weapon for each existing class.
A handful of new utility skills for every class.
Armors with new stat combos (Precision/Condition Damage/Healing Power?) – even if you simply reuse old armor models (which doesn’t really matter, since most of us paint over it with skins anyway). Ideally we should have every possible combination of stats available. On a side note, what about Legendary Armor?!!!!

Next up: Dungeons.

Wonderly.1324:

• Remove RNG from precursors and make them obtainable only from vendor purchase at 3000g a piece

I’m not sure what’s worse: this suggestion or the possibility you aren’t joking.

timmyf.1490:

Wonderly.1324:

• Remove RNG from precursors and make them obtainable only from vendor purchase at 3000g a piece

I’m not sure what’s worse: this suggestion or the possibility you aren’t joking.

Yeah, i was thinking the same thing. OUCH!

munkiman.3068:

timmyf.1490:

Wonderly.1324:

• Remove RNG from precursors and make them obtainable only from vendor purchase at 3000g a piece

I’m not sure what’s worse: this suggestion or the possibility you aren’t joking.

Yeah, i was thinking the same thing. OUCH!

I’m thinking maybe it was a typo and he meant 300g.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Kaz.5430:

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

There seems to be group who are vocal on the forums who suffer from selective amnesia and denial.

For example, since the game has released there have been quite a few additional dungeons added, at least they would be considered dungeon in most games. However many players selectively chose to deny the existence of them, they consider a new dungeon path to not be a new dungeon (even though it would be if it had it’s own entrance), and of course Fractals of the Mist (and each individual fractal) is also “not a dungeon”.

If you look at the dungeons page on the Wiki, there are 9 dungeons in the game (including Fractals of the Mists). Those dungeons containing 42 different paths. Of those 42 paths, 10 of them (23.8%) didn’t exist at launch, but you’ll still hear people shouting that no new dungeons have been added.

This is true for “End Game” content in general, there has actually been a fair bit of End-Game content added, but you’ll never get some of the people on here to admit it. When you point it out to them you get a bizarre response, generally along the lines of “That doesn’t count because it should have been there since launch”. It might not have even been imagined at launch, but it should have been there anyway, so is not new.

You need to understand that the Living Story is not ‘New Storyline’, any new areas added are not ‘New Maps’ and any new words bosses are not ‘New World Bosses’. I’m pretty sure that anything added at all – unless it comes in the form of a boxed expansion – wont be considered new content by some people here, regardless of what it is, and even if it does come in a boxed expansion, there will probably be a group that denies it’s existence because “it should have been there from the start”.

My advice, would be to just enjoy the game, and not try to “understand” these forums.

I am quoting you “for great wisdom.”

Thank you for expressing what was running through my head as I was reading. And with tasty stats, too? Does it get any better than that!!??

I always had a feeling that the ANet employees were too filtered to really be able to respond to these threads how they would like, and so had to take some vicarious joy when the rare sane post rises to the top of the rabble.

Seriously though, Kaz hits it on the head.

And even if the devs did deliver on the very things people wanted, two months later they’re back in the same bind when the shine wears off :/

Dungeons

Every dungeon ought to be the size of a full map/zone. I liken Divinity’s Reach to the minimum size for the smallest dungeon.

Right now, dungeons are designed the same way as personal story/LS. A cut scene, a linear path, a couple of fights, and then a boss and chest.

What dungeons lack is exploration. Try building some vast underground complexes (think Underworld from GW1). Truly epic sized structures that could take days to fully explore.

Now, these could be made open world (built underneath existing zones/maps) – or they could be instanced – I enjoy both, and don’t really care how this particular aspect works out.

All I care about is the fact that the “exploration” style players have really got the short end of the stick in this game.

So, make dungeons bigger. 10x bigger.

Also, whether you remake old dungeons, or simply add new ones from this point forward isn’t that important to me – as long as there is truly massive dungeons that satisfies the explorer in me, I don’t care how they’r implemented.

Dungeons should be partially soloable – that is, the enemies in them should not have so much health, or 1-shot tactics, that it is nearly impossible for the average player to solo, with persistence and tactics (this doesn’t mean everything should be easy either – simply that the current system of ridiculously large health pools and Defiance/Unshakeable is terrible – design enemies with interesting abilities, not static stats that make them really tough).

Which brings me to the next issue – redesign monsters and encounters. Make them more difficult by giving the access to a larger range of abilities and improve the AI. Stop piling on more health and Defiance/Unshakeable. This is poor craftmanship.

Instead, make them dodge more – or give them timed blocks. Or whatever. Use an interesting array of abilities to make them challenging rather than just making them tougher and/or immune.

Doing so should make dungeons more challenging, more interesting, and more accessible.

Add DE’s to dungeons – same as the open world. Exploring a dungeon shouldn’t be about simply completing one linear objective handed to you from a “quest giver” – it should be about discovering what’s inside the dungeon, and then deciding for yourself whether to take the risk of defeating it.

When dungeons are this large, it becomes possible to partially explore a dungeon, and still get something rewarding from it. That is to say, perhaps I only reached level 15 in Dungeon X (which has 20 levels), and I only defeated the Ogre Warlord in level 15 (which drops his own chest), but if I had made it to level 20 I would have faced the Lich Lord (and been rewarded something even better). Ok, generic examples, but you get my point, right? I can set my own pace, the dungeon has multiple “bosses” and places within it that have their own rewards, and I don’t have to “complete” the whole thing to get something – in fact, the idea of “completion” doesn’t even make sense – the dungeon is explorable, and you get something for each part of it you explore (and defeat it’s defenders).

I’d like to see dungeons that have 10 or more “bosses”…….

Procedural generation

This is experimental, but perhaps you should create a team to start looking into making something like a procedurally generated Fractals of the Mist or something – a Diabl style-esque dungeon (doesn’t have to be incredibly fancy or complex – we’re talking basic D&D style dungeon crawling now, killing skele’s and looting chests). The advantage you get with this is that you have something similar to SAB that can keep quite a few players satisfied with quasi “new” content using randomly generated environments.

Yes, it will be a very basic “dungeon crawling” experience, but the randmoness (and thus unpredictability) of it keeps it feeling somewhat fresh. What this does is it buys your development team time, as players play this arcade style infinite dungeon while you guys are busy creating other content (like massive dungeons and new DE’s and new maps and expansions). It means people will complain less about new content, because they can grind away in the infinite dungeon. Use a dozen or so different environments, and find ways to remix them with each other – look at what Diablo 3 does with Rifts – these are simple ways to make old content feel “new-ish” by remixing and using small amounts of randomization.

Next up: Combat.

Kaz makes some good points and there will definitely be some people who are never satisfied, but that said…

Fractals are great! But they serve a very different purpose from dungeon paths. The reward structure (and rewards) are totally different. They require a longer time commitment than most dungeon paths. The level of difficulty is different. The integration of story is different.

And look, if Dungeons are somehow no longer a thing and Fractals are the future, that’s something I can learn to live with. (I still don’t like the time commitment that comes with Fractals, that’s why I rarely do them. I know how long it takes to do a AC 1 and 3 or COE 3, for example. Fractals are always a toss-up… sometimes random is nice, but sometimes you want to be able to plan your gaming time. I can’t, for example, commit to Fractals if I know I only have an hour. Some runs just go bad and take longer.)

I sort of want to make a longer post or maybe a video about Aetherpath and why I think it’s played so much less than other dungeon paths. I’m sure Anet views their only post-launch actual-dungeon path as a failure, but I’m not sure they fully understand why. Rewards is a big part, but it’s only a part. I’ve been trying to come up with a few easy rules for making dungeon content that’s fun, not frustrating.

For example, the boulder puzzle in COF1 and the laser jump puzzle in COE are both fun. The ooze puzzle is a nightmare and makes me want to throw stuff. What’s the difference?

Good dungeon puzzles have some flexibility. You can complete them with 2 or 3 members knowing what to do. Having one person who doesn’t communicate and who doesn’t know what they’re doing shouldn’t mean failure.

Good dungeon puzzles also don’t rely on NPC pathing or glitchy aggro mechanics. (Aetherpath at least used the ooze attractant stuff, that’s a plus.)

Good dungeon puzzles also shouldn’t rely too heavily on randomness or unclear factors. For oozes, I’m thinking spawn times. If a few lava elementals spawn and aggro your ooze, well, sorry bro. Start again.

I ran Aetherpath the other night with some folks who aren’t experts on the path but have all done it a handful of times. It took well over an hour and was maddeningly frustrating. And for the 2g path reward (and no good drops along the way, not even a rare, despite my nearly 200% MF) it just wasn’t worth it.

Also, it’s not that Aetherpath is bad, it’s just that it feels like they crammed way too many fights and mechanics into that one path. Imagine, instead, it was a new dungeon and oozes were on one path, Sparki and Slick on another, and the electric room + holo generators were on another. Each path could have its own end boss and maybe a few more medium-sized fights within… Guess what, without significantly more work than that one path took, you have three explorable paths of more reasonable length.

Anyway, just a few thoughts from somebody who would like more dungeons… but not dungeons as long and complicated as Aetherpath.

Torsailr.8456:

ipan.4356:

What dungeons lack is exploration. Try building some vast underground complexes (think Underworld from GW1). Truly epic sized structures that could take days to fully explore.

While I agree with the idea I wonder if this is practically possible. I mean there will still be event markers showing you where to go and most people want to complete it as fast as possible. Given a few weeks the most effective path through will be discovered and the rest ignored, much like dungeons now. The difference being, it might take longer to run from point A to point B in a map that size.

Is there a way to force exploration or detours through the dungeon? Randomized layout similar to Diablo 3? I’m not sure that was a successful experiment.

I’m not trying to criticize, I’m curious how that issue could be solved.

I’m somewhat critical of the idea – artists work a lot slower and cost a lot more than people think. You can’t just whip something like this up. Buuuuut as a fun thought experiment, how would you do this?

You couldn’t just have one path through the large area. In fact, you probably couldn’t even just have three. Like Underworld, you’d have to have multiple goals and objectives that you can do. Ideally in whatever order you choose.

I’d be curious to see an instanced zone-sized map with a large group of NPCs at the beginning. By talking to them, you kick off a challenging Dynamic Event chain which takes you through the map. By having multiple paths and multiple NPCs, you can see the same areas but with different pathing and different things happening.

For example, in one DE-chain, you might be escorting an NPC with an object that draws a particular type of enemy. In another, you might be taking a similar path through mostly the same areas, but instead of drawing that enemy type, you’re riding on the back of a dolyak and attacking something else. Who knows?

I think my rule of thumb would be: reuse your maps, but change the enemies/objectives/mechanics. Dynamic Events, as I understand it, are relatively easy to create so long as they don’t interfere with each other. Perhaps by allowing only one DE-chain at a time, the non-art asset content could be created quickly.

Combat

GW2 started off with a great idea – make MMO combat more action oriented and impactful.

I believe they have made great strides towards this, but I also think there is room for improvement.

Cons:

Tab targeting. GW2 simply doesn’t go far enough in ridding ourselves of conventional MMO combat. They need to drive the final nail in the coffin, and completely remove tab targeting – this would require reworking some skills that currently require a target (Mesmers illusions come to mind, and many projectiles won’t fire correctly without a target), but I think it’s necessary. Yes, it will require some serious rebalancing (particularly with projectile based attacks, as projectiles will no longer follow their target – they will be completely based upon player aiming, and so will have to have CD’s adjusted, for example, just for starters – since far more projectiles are likely to miss).

Lock mouse-look. This kinda goes along with the removal of tab targeting, but locked mouse look needs to be default (pressing a hot key to disengage mouse-look, to interact with the environment). Making locked mouse-look default primes the UI for a tab targeting less combat environment.

Left and right mouse attacks. So, along with the removal of tab targets, and the addition of locked mouse-looking, I think that auto-attacks need to be added to right and left mouse clicks. This makes combat a little more like an FPS. One suggestion I have for this idea is to implement something between an FPS with it’s primary/secondary attack function (right and left mouse) for Skill 1/autoattack and Diablo 3’s Primary/Secondary attack on mouse buttons. This would mean that every main hand weapon set actually has two Skill 1/auto attacks (that are now mapped to right/left click) – each one a little different. Basically, for example, let’s say I have a main hand sword – left click would perform the auto-attack chain we’re used to. Right click might perform a ‘parry’ or something similar instead. Alternatively, right click could be based on off hand weapon, and do something similar (so right click, if I’m wielding a shield, for example, might be a quick block). Two handed weapons, obviously, will have to take into account actions for both buttons.

Generally speaking, fewer and shorter CD’s on Skills. Using a skill should be more about opportunity (every skill more or less useful in situations than others) and less about firing off as many as possible in as little time as possible – this could also mean the removal of CD reduction traits (which are very boring).

More toggle based/activation based skills. Think, for example, about shield blocking. Make it work more like defensive stance on footmen from Warcraft 3 worked – toggling this skill makes you move slower, but increases defense. Get rid of the CD, and simply make it a trade off. In Shield Stance, you give up some movement speed, but you are tougher. Begin making adjustments to lots of skills thinking along these lines. Instead of CD’s, put more alt modes into the skills. Toggle skills.

Out of combat gear swapping. I know that weapon swapping is limited now due to balance – it’s entirely based upon available CD’s. However, could we at least get the ability to swap to new weapon sets (and armor sets) while we’re out of combat? Basically, as I’m adventuring, sometimes I get bored of a particular skill set, and I just want to go forward using something else. I know I can just put the other set in my inventory and swap it out manually, but this entire process could also be automated as well. We need the convenience of being able to switch our entire gear set with a button press, even if it confers no advantage during combat.

PvE – Monsters

Although there are a few examples in the world this does not apply to, generally most monsters in this game run to their target (getting an unrealistic speedboost purely for balance, anti-exploitation reasons) and swing away. Monsters in general need more tactical abilities and smarter AI. I’m largely tired of the idea that bigger health pools and immunity to CC = more challenging. Give monsters more abilities. Along with the other ideas I suggested above, monsters could do some very challenging, interesting things (how about walking on walls/ceilings (spiders), retreating when taking too much damage, taking cover (with the new projectile system I mention above, hiding behind obstacles could reduce damage from projectiles), synergistic skills that work with other nearby monsters. There are too many ideas to list them all, so I’m just trying to spur some imagination here. Get more creative with what monsters can do, and stop MOAR HEALTH MOAR IMMUNITY style design.

I think some of you are going to get smote for going over the 100 word challenge :P

Due to the limits in msg. length (could we possibly get a character counter???), I had to edit a lot out of that last reply – including what I believe to be the pros of the combat system:

The pros:

Fluid motion and animation. Basic movement and control over our characters is superb. They go when I tell them to, stop when I tell them to. It’s very responsive and the movement over all feels like it’s based on physics (momentum is handled pretty well, for example when you are moving sideways, or backwards, etc.)

Moving while casting. It’s great that we rarely interrupt ourselves by accidentally pressing a movement key (there are a few skills that still require standing still, and I’d like to see this worked on).

Dodging. This mechanic is awesome – but I think the implementation needs work, and I’ll get to that in a bit. Overall, the addition of dodging is awesome.

Streamlined UI and skillbar. Limited skill availability during combat is awesome – both because my screen is less cluttered, and because I don’t like having 30+ skills to choose from in combat – 10 is perfect. Like dodging, however, I think implementation needs some improvement, which I will get to in a second.

ipan, I mean this in a friendly way, but perhaps the problem here isn’t the lack of a character counter.

Crouch button.

Better collision mechanics.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I should say something here: I am not posting this in the same official sense that Chris posts his CDIs. This started as a casual question of general interest to me — in part because I saw so many different thoughts on the matter! So I just want to ask that you don’t build expectations about any sort of special outcome as a result of this thread. Having said that, accumulated information can be valuable to the devs, so do feel free to post if you care to do so!

I for one never thought for a second you were doing anything other than passing our information along and making sure that it wasn’t falling on deaf ears, and that by itself is fantastic. I have no expectations of anything other than that the devs have some idea of what sort of thing we want and what we might have an opinion on if they asked.

- Some form of elite dungeon. I.e., increase fractal cap, hard mode or gambits for existing dungeons, or add an “elite” path (like TA Aether) to every existing dungeon. Best case IMO would be whole new dungeon(s) with unique rewards like UW, DoA, Deep, Urgoz from GW1.
- A few more teq/wurm level raid bosses (they are raids despite whatever anet says), and give us a better way to organize groups for them, other than spamming “join in…”
- New spvp types
- New continent exploration, hopefully driven by new meaningful story (2 new maps in 2 years is snail speed compared to GW1)

ok my suggestions in short:

1.) dungeons scale down to 1 player (like the story missions)

• makes dungeons viable for small groups also
• makes hardmode possible (1 player can switch hard mode on)

2.) content release pacing a mix between season 1 (something for everyone) and season 2 (focus on story and single player instances)

• a dungeon as a season-finale instead of 2-3 final missions
• a worldboss in between

Endgame to me means stuff to keep learning.

New maps and continents!

New professions!

New races!

New rewards! (Collections are an awesome, if expensive, step in that direction)

Gaile Gray.6029:

I like this idea. We all have guilds, so it’s great to weigh in on behalf of a guild. Naturally, guild members often gravitate to one another because of shared interests, so if a guild called Ranger Raiders said “we need more powerful Ranger skills” I might look at them a bit skeptically.

On the other hand, guilds also have people with a wide variety of opinions, so feel free to ask your guildies about this question if you wish.

I’ll try but they tend to stay out of the forums.

munkiman.3068:

I think some of you are going to get smote for going over the 100 word challenge :P

I was reading this in reverse order and as I scrolled up I couldn’t help but notice that there’d be quite a few smited bodies littering the forums if we held to the 100-word limit.

So I could have made my post longer?

I have played since beta and I like GW2, I have supported the gem store when I have extra cash.

I noticed a few things. There has been constant content added, yes maybe it’s not what everyone wants.
The LS to me gets blown through pretty quickly.
Not everyone wants to run dungeons.
Not everyone wants to PvP.
Same with Legendary Weapons, not everyone wants to grind for them.

New elements should constantly be added within patches.

New weapon skills would be great, along with some new weapon types. When a new map is revealed there could be a trader/trainer that opens through a quest. My Ele wants Chakrams! My Warrior wants a two-handed axe!

Besides GEM purchased armors, how many new COMPLETE sets have been added since release? I myself am constantly mixing my armor up, but it’s basically the same pieces since release. Don’t get me wrong, I get excited when a new weapon/armor set skin is put in the store, but even better when something new can drop off a mob! Outfits are ok……but not as special as mixing and matching.

I think rewards and weapon/armors skins needs an overhaul, from lvl 1-80 could use a lot more set drops. Yes, to new players it’s shiny and new…to vets we have seen and probably collected most skins.

A new map opens, but once the event is done there isn’t much reason to stay. Give us reasons to revisit places.

Collections are great for bolstering the endgame BUT they aren’t something I can show off, which is a shame.

Now if we had a collections armory in our home instance, that would be grand. It would be…well like the HoM now that I think of it. I’d have more reason to fill collections, as I could poke my buddy and say “Hey man, you HAVE to see my complete spoon collection!” It would be an actual THING that fills up as you progress. Something that you directly change in the game world, if only an instance.

Chrury.4627:

Collections are great for bolstering the endgame BUT they aren’t something I can show off, which is a shame.

Now if we had a collections armory in our home instance, that would be grand. It would be…well like the HoM now that I think of it. I’d have more reason to fill collections, as I could poke my buddy and say “Hey man, you HAVE to see my complete spoon collection!” It would be an actual THING that fills up as you progress. Something that you directly change in the game world, if only an instance.

I’ll say this is a good idea, having something to show off.

Every weapon skill slot should have 3 options – this should make customizing a particular weapon or weapon set to a specific build much easier.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrury.4627:

Collections are great for bolstering the endgame BUT they aren’t something I can show off, which is a shame.

Now if we had a collections armory in our home instance, that would be grand. It would be…well like the HoM now that I think of it. I’d have more reason to fill collections, as I could poke my buddy and say “Hey man, you HAVE to see my complete spoon collection!” It would be an actual THING that fills up as you progress. Something that you directly change in the game world, if only an instance.

I’ll say this is a good idea, having something to show off.

Some collections have unique skin rewards, don’t they?

Rauderi.8706:

Better dungeon support overall would be grand. Right now, I don’t feel comfortable running because pick-up groups are a minefield of speedrunners and even more toxic kittenkittens who do wretched things like join groups then party-kick its participants.

This is what I find to be wrong with Guild Wars 2’s dungeons. You are so open to abuse with how people will join your group and just kick you. And overall, the community is rather toxic with their experienced only runs. If you’re not a certain profession, you’re not (as) welcome. Sure, you can make your own groups, but I’ve had LFG for just casual runs sit there for over 20 minutes without a single person joining. That’s not fun. That’s waiting for fun, which I thought GW2’s goal was to avoid. If there is a group started, you’re always risking that there’s a couple jerks who will steal the dungeon by kicking the rest of the players near the end. This is mainly why I avoid dungeons except to solo.

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrury.4627:

Collections are great for bolstering the endgame BUT they aren’t something I can show off, which is a shame.

Now if we had a collections armory in our home instance, that would be grand. It would be…well like the HoM now that I think of it. I’d have more reason to fill collections, as I could poke my buddy and say “Hey man, you HAVE to see my complete spoon collection!” It would be an actual THING that fills up as you progress. Something that you directly change in the game world, if only an instance.

I’ll say this is a good idea, having something to show off.

Some collections have unique skin rewards, don’t they?

I don’t know yet, haven’t had a chance to poke extensively at it. Don’t think they have unique skins at all . . . I recall one gives a Champion bag skin but . . .

Gaile Gray.6029:

timmyf.1490:

Gaile-

I’ve polled my guild to ask them what they want to do. ~snip~

I like this idea. We all have guilds, so it’s great to weigh in on behalf of a guild. Naturally, guild members often gravitate to one another because of shared interests, so if a guild called Ranger Raiders said “we need more powerful Ranger skills” I might look at them a bit skeptically.

On the other hand, guilds also have people with a wide variety of opinions, so feel free to ask your guildies about this question if you wish.

I should say something here: I am not posting this in the same official sense that Chris posts his CDIs. This started as a casual question of general interest to me — in part because I saw so many different thoughts on the matter! So I just want to ask that you don’t build expectations about any sort of special outcome as a result of this thread. Having said that, accumulated information can be valuable to the devs, so do feel free to post if you care to do so!

munkiman.3068:

I think some of you are going to get smote for going over the 100 word challenge :P

I was reading this in reverse order and as I scrolled up I couldn’t help but notice that there’d be quite a few smited bodies littering the forums if we held to the 100-word limit.

I am a bit confused here what this topic is about.
The title is misleading and the OP was already deleted, so it might be a good idea to change the title and maybe explain in a new OP what you are trying to achieve here.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrury.4627:

Collections are great for bolstering the endgame BUT they aren’t something I can show off, which is a shame.

Now if we had a collections armory in our home instance, that would be grand. It would be…well like the HoM now that I think of it. I’d have more reason to fill collections, as I could poke my buddy and say “Hey man, you HAVE to see my complete spoon collection!” It would be an actual THING that fills up as you progress. Something that you directly change in the game world, if only an instance.

I’ll say this is a good idea, having something to show off.

Some collections have unique skin rewards, don’t they?

I don’t know yet, haven’t had a chance to poke extensively at it. Don’t think they have unique skins at all . . . I recall one gives a Champion bag skin but . . .

Spirit Crafter at least has a unique back item called Spirit Smith. Not much so far, but I haven’t discovered some of the other collections. So there’s one new skin for sure, and more kittentainly be added. Of course titles can be shown off too and there are some of those.

Wanze.8410:

I am a bit confused here what this topic is about.
The title is misleading and the OP was already deleted, so it might be a good idea to change the title and maybe explain in a new OP what you are trying to achieve here.

As I understand it, Gaile was just chatting with us and asking us our opinions about what endgame for GW2 should be.

ipan.4356:

Tab targeting. GW2 simply doesn’t go far enough in ridding ourselves of conventional MMO combat. They need to drive the final nail in the coffin, and completely remove tab targeting .

No .. please not .. that would drive me even fast away from the game than Open PvP.

My biggest fear before i could actually play the game was that it could have a combat
like Tera, Vindictus, DCUO or Neverwinter .. and all these game i deinstalled after
mostly 20-30 minutes .. only Tera did i managed to play for 3 days .. but the combat
there really felt like physical work to me.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

1.) dungeons scale down to 1 player (like the story missions)

• makes dungeons viable for small groups also
• makes hardmode possible (1 player can switch hard mode on)

Is it bad that I would shell out gems for this? >.>

Sometimes, you want to do a dungeon with one friend and not drag unknowns, pugs, or jerks along with you. Sometimes your guild can only muster 3 or 4 people. Dungeons scaling to size would be ideal for getting them run more often.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

It originated on release date. It’s not like this train of thought is new. :p

People are always going to complain about “no endgame”, because (for starters) GW2 isn’t a traditional MMO in a lot of ways. Also, the discussion on what constitutes “endgame” itself is HIGHLY debatable. There are tons of “standard” MMO’s where the player base still complains about lack of endgame.

You’re always going to have people complaining like this, because you’re always going to have people that want something better or expect something else. Sadly, people just don’t know how to find a game that suits their tastes. They’d rather have a game they’re familiar with changed and shoehorned into a model they think is “correct” for what they want.

I don’t want end-game anymore, I want more stuff. Two years and now we have dry, tasteless Living Story about two lesbians worrying more about each other than about Tyria.

Allelya.6830:

I don’t want end-game anymore, I want more stuff. Two years and now we have dry, tasteless Living Story about two lesbians worrying more about each other than about Tyria.

…not only does that sound INCREDIBLY bigoted, but I don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. Are you even PLAYING the living story?

Also, I’m not the OP. My post was in reply to the ORIGINAL poster, who has since deleted his comment. So… yeah. Go ahead and step right in here, late to the discussion, and make assumptions about everything you missed over the last week.

The discussion has moved on FAR past these first comments. Either catch up to what is being discussed now, or just leave the old stuff drop. This comment is no longer relevant.

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Some collections have unique skin rewards, don’t they?

I don’t know yet, haven’t had a chance to poke extensively at it. Don’t think they have unique skins at all . . . I recall one gives a Champion bag skin but . . .

Spirit Crafter at least has a unique back item called Spirit Smith. Not much so far, but I haven’t discovered some of the other collections. So there’s one new skin for sure, and more kittentainly be added. Of course titles can be shown off too and there are some of those.

This is true. There are a few unique skins tied to collections at the moment. But you’re forced to choose whether showing your accomplishment with the item is worth possibly messing up your look.

As for titles, since I can’t select myself, I never know how awesome I look with one on. (petty, I know).
And for some reason, once you have a title, there’s no quick way to tell where it came from. I found yesterday that I have titles that I don’t remember getting on what I did to get them! How am I supposed to feel awesome about some accomplishment when I can’t recall what I did?

Would it be possible to get a new category in the achievements panel maybe? It wouldn’t add new achievement but instead work like the watch list and just keep all of the title awarding achievements in one easy to analyse spot. Maybe not for PvP and WvW though. “Achievement with a title” describes almost every achieve there.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I agree with you. Suggestions would be wonderful: Practical, reasonably expressed, and clear. Here’s the challenge, and we’ll see if it’s possible and reasonable: Share your opinion about how to improve the end game in (roughly) 100 words or less.

As I’ve already said in another post, before it got deleted because of insulting language (o.O?), I would split the endgame updates into 3 parts: Updating open PvE, updating dungeons and new content.

Open PvE:

• Local currencies for all maps
  • Currency should span multiple maps (one for Ascalon, 1 for Kryta, …)
  • No time-gated reward (These ranks in Drytop are terrible)
  • Meaningful reward, stuff that you would want to buy more than just one time

Dungeons:

• Casual Mode focusing on the story
• Hardmode for challenge/reward
  • New AI’s for all bosses, who can also react to player actions

New Stuff:
While I think that the suggestions listed above are a huge step in the right direction, new content is probably the most important part. However the suggestions can be kept in mind when creating new content. In that order:

1. New dungeons (!!!)
2. Proper raids (not that triple trouble thing*)
3. New weapons for the old classes
4. New classes
5. New zones
6. New story
7. New world-bosses

* I don’t mean to imply that I dislike Triple Trouble as challenging content, I just really dislike that it spawns on a normal map, not to mention a lvl 45 – 55 map.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I agree with you. Suggestions would be wonderful: Practical, reasonably expressed, and clear. Here’s the challenge, and we’ll see if it’s possible and reasonable: Share your opinion about how to improve the end game in (roughly) 100 words or less.

As I’ve already said in another post, before it got deleted because of insulting language (o.O?), I would split the endgame updates into 3 parts: Updating open PvE, updating dungeons and new content.

Open PvE:

• Local currencies for all maps
  • Currency should span multiple maps (one for Ascalon, 1 for Kryta, …)
  • No time-gated reward (These ranks in Drytop are terrible)
  • Meaningful reward, stuff that you would want to buy more than just one time

Dungeons:

• Casual Mode focusing on the story
• Hardmode for challenge/reward
  • New AI’s for all bosses, who can also react to player actions

New Stuff:
While I think that the suggestions listed above are a huge step in the right direction, new content is probably the most important part. However the suggestions can be kept in mind when creating new content. In that order:

1. New dungeons (!!!)
2. Proper raids (not that triple trouble thing*)
3. New weapons for the old classes
4. New classes
5. New zones
6. New story
7. New world-bosses

* I don’t mean to imply that I dislike Triple Trouble as challenging content, I just really dislike that it spawns on a normal map, not to mention a lvl kitten map.

Yes yes yes! You hit the nail on the head. New stuff for everyone, challenging included. Frankly I’d be happy if most new instanced content offered solo, 5 and 10 man variants.

And thanks for saying proper raid. Wurm is lovely, but I wouldn’t call it a raid, at least in comparison to…other raids. But let’s never do that again (at least nothing of that size player wise, but challenge is great.) Also, new dungeons don’t need to be some extravagant TA affair. You can add new paths to existing dungeons, or just carve out some hole in the world and do something like molten furnace or aetherblade retreat. You can turn the tower of nightmares into a raid (although I’d make the fight actually at the top, not in a separate instance). And definitely add existing weapons to other classes. I think bolt is the only legendary I want (even though I’ll never afford zap), but I just can’t bring myself to pursue it until ele gets sword. The key thing is new. I think the LS instances have been better, but I gotta tell you, I think I’m getting even less replayability than the events of season 1 (once the cheevos dry up).

timmyf.1490:

Gaile-

I’ve polled my guild to ask them what they want to do. The answer, overwhelmingly, was dungeons. Now, nearly everybody ALSO said they liked Living Story stuff, but dungeons came up time and time again as “we want to do more of this.”

If ArenaNet could commit to adding a new full dungeon (story + 3x explorable tied in with Living World with corresponding weapon and armor sets) every 6-9 months, you’d be providing endgame content for your most active players.

Imagine the Scarlet fight was Story and we got explorables investigating her creations! Marionette path, Toxic hybrid path, Holopath…

I would love this.

In the two years playing this game I have yet to do one dungeon that I actually felt like it told a story. And I wish ANET would just copy and paste what WoW did orginally with their dungeons. Have quests that lead up to the dungeon and make the dungeon feel like part of the zone itself.

Example in WoW look at old version new player zone Westfall. You walk into the zone and immediately notice a group of people who are being harassed by bandits and give you a quest to help them. You walk further and notice that bandits have literally taken over the whole map and the citizens are on the defensive. You find the leader of the milita and they ask for your help with the bandits and also send you on quests to figure out where the human army is. They realize they are on their own and once you get to the max level of the zone they send you after the leader of the bandits who is in a dungeon called the dead mines. The leader was actually an angry mason who was done wrong by the human nobility and it becomes a test of who is really wrong here. And once you complete it you get some of the best gear you can get in that level range.

Look at the comparable zone in guild wars. Queensdale when you enter the zone you notice it’s an all out war between humans and centaurs. And most of the quests involve the two but it’s just mindless killing and skirmishes. There is no, resolution for the player to the zone. The dungeon in the area has a story of it’s own but it has more to do with political battles than the centaurs. And the end of the dungeon is “Oh, ill keep my eye on the guy who obviously set all this up!”

Maybe it’s just me but the dungeons in GW2 have always just had this pointless and empty feeling aside from getting tokens and gold. And where I’m getting with all this is that WoW would take all those experiences from the zones and dungeons and lead them up to the end game content.

This game sort of does this with Destiny’s Edge but it was just poorly executed and intrusive on the player experience in my opinion.

BlackGhostz.2483:

Look at the comparable zone in guild wars. Queensdale when you enter the zone you notice it’s an all out war between humans and centaurs. And most of the quests involve the two but it’s just mindless killing and skirmishes. There is no, resolution for the player to the zone. The dungeon in the area has a story of it’s own but it has more to do with political battles than the centaurs. And the end of the dungeon is “Oh, ill keep my eye on the guy who obviously set all this up!”

Maybe it’s just me but the dungeons in GW2 have always just had this pointless and empty feeling aside from getting tokens and gold. And where I’m getting with all this is that WoW would take all those experiences from the zones and dungeons and lead them up to the end game content.

This game sort of does this with Destiny’s Edge but it was just poorly executed and intrusive on the player experience in my opinion.

The Story dungeons integrate well into the Personal Story, I think, but the explorables all follow a slightly weird theme. “We’re doing these things in the same area as the story dungeon that are of dubious connection to the story.”

Anyway, the new Living Story stuff gets a few things right. It’s instanced, repeatable content that combines combat and story. While I’m sure ArenaNet wants to show off that fancy new Story Journal, I think putting more LS content into dungeon form has some advantages, especially for those of us who enjoy playing with 4 guildmates a lot more than dynamic event grinding with a mass of auto-attacking Ranger Strangers.

Right now zone scaling is nice, but remains mostly unused.
How to improve endgame: Remove reward scaling from the zone scaling.
If i get the same drops in a lvl1-15 area as i do in a lvl80 area, it will finally be worth actually playing and spending time in ALL zones regardless of level and do a different farm or fight a different monster to change things up with minimal effort.

A 2nd idea/comment:
Guildwars 1 started in 2005, by this time (2 years later) we had 4 more classes, tripled the game size, and huge ammounts of regular and endgame content were added.
I’ve been gone from this game for more than 1,5 year and…. didnt actually miss anything ! After 2 years finally the game only just seems to have started going for dragon#2. People were expecting to have him killed 6-12 months after release (with 6 dragons that would give GW2 enough content for 3-6 years already) Yet still no sight of real additional content (where is cantha? elona? crystal desert? the other 5 dragons? class/race additions? new skills/weapons? anything to shake things up a bit….).

So the general 2nd idea: speed up development, to a point like GW1, where you get several weeks on new PvE and PvP content every 6-12 months . Instead of 1-2 days of additional content every 1-1,5 year. Casual game is nice, but this is stretching is to a whole new level that struggles to keep people interested and keeps having topics like this pop up.

Anet – Your Largest Playerbase are Explorers

And this is why you need to focus everything you’ve got on expanding the size of your MMO.

We need new zones to play in – LOTS of them (20+).

We need new, and better dungeons (start making dungeons like you make open world zones – bigger, with tons of DE’s and bosses, instead of a few utterly linear paths).

A new class.

A new playable race.

Some new weapons and skills (and give every weapon slot 3 choices to choose from, so we can customize our builds better).

Although everyone dabbles in a little of everything, the majority of your casual players – the people most likely to impulse buy stuff from the gem store – are explorers.

They like the Open World. If the Open World does not expand, they lose interest and move on to another game simply to find new content.

This is the core of your problem – you are not satisfying your ‘exploration’ based players.

A QoL change that would make almost everyone in the game happy. Actually, I can’t think of a single person that wouldn’t like this change.

Add LS currencies to the wallet and add LS materials to the Mat Bank. Anet has been so thoroughly inconsistent with it that it’s gone beyond aggravating and really looks like bad planning and design. Not doing so doesn’t improve the game and just makes things aggravating for the player.

Torsailr.8456:

A QoL change that would make almost everyone in the game happy. Actually, I can’t think of a single person that wouldn’t like this change.

Add LS currencies to the wallet and add LS materials to the Mat Bank. Anet has been so thoroughly inconsistent with it that it’s gone beyond aggravating and really looks like bad planning and design. Not doing so doesn’t improve the game and just makes things aggravating for the player.

You’re right that this is a Qol change that would make everyone happy. However, it’s not a change that would stop any of the complaints we’re seeing.

So they put time into this, and take time away from other stuff. That’s the issue. Sure, everyone can agree it would be cool to have this stuff in the wallet, but it won’t likely make one person leave the game if they don’t, and it won’t get anyone to come back to the game, and it won’t stop people who are going to leave from leaving.

That said, it would be a nice QoL change. But the people that are complaining the most are complaining about content not being challenging enough, or not having new dungeons or not having specific content (I’m looking at you SAB), or not having mounts.

I still think Anet should do it, though.

Ian.1349:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Allelya.6830:

I don’t want end-game anymore, I want more stuff. Two years and now we have dry, tasteless Living Story about two lesbians worrying more about each other than about Tyria.

…not only does that sound INCREDIBLY bigoted, but I don’t even know what the hell you’re talking about. Are you even PLAYING the living story?

Also, I’m not the OP. My post was in reply to the ORIGINAL poster, who has since deleted his comment. So… yeah. Go ahead and step right in here, late to the discussion, and make assumptions about everything you missed over the last week.

The discussion has moved on FAR past these first comments. Either catch up to what is being discussed now, or just leave the old stuff drop. This comment is no longer relevant.

There wasn’t anything bigoted about that statement. The living story does spend a lot of time focusing on the Marjory and Kasmeer end of things. I guess you don’t know but they are lesbians.

But the fact that they are lesbians, in theory, should have nothing to do with your complaint. Certainly there’s little to complain about about their relationship being more important than Tyria.

At the very least your comment makes it feel like a heterosexual couple wouldn’t have received the same treatment.

Vayne.8563:

Certainly there’s little to complain about about their relationship being more important than Tyria.

Sure, there is. They can talk about their feelings for each other all they want, whenever they want – except for when we’re in the middle of a mission. Hoo boy, if my mesmer had really been the ‘boss’ in that situation, those two would still be waiting for their ears to stop burning. She’d have made Gunnery Sergeant Hartman blush.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Certainly there’s little to complain about about their relationship being more important than Tyria.

Sure, there is. They can talk about their feelings for each other all they want, whenever they want – except for when we’re in the middle of a mission. Hoo boy, if my mesmer had really been the ‘boss’ in that situation, those two would still be waiting for their ears to stop burning. She’d have made Gunnery Sergeant Hartman blush.

You mean people in the middle of missions in real life never talk about anything personal? Hell you’ve never watched a war movie where the guys are in a trench talking about home and their loved ones?

Give me a break.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Certainly there’s little to complain about about their relationship being more important than Tyria.

Sure, there is. They can talk about their feelings for each other all they want, whenever they want – except for when we’re in the middle of a mission. Hoo boy, if my mesmer had really been the ‘boss’ in that situation, those two would still be waiting for their ears to stop burning. She’d have made Gunnery Sergeant Hartman blush.

You mean people in the middle of missions in real life never talk about anything personal? Hell you’ve never watched a war movie where the guys are in a trench talking about home and their loved ones?

Give me a break.

No, sir. No break. They weren’t in a trench. They were smack dab in the middle of unfamiliar territory facing threats known and unknown. Not the appropriate time for relationship chatter.