Guild Wars 2

Linken.6345:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

]
I was talking about general content drought. You can’t complain about the content drought until you have a single unfinished Achievement.

That’s a matter of opinion. Again, it’s unreasonable for Anet to simply deliver ANY kind of content, no matter how costly it is just because of ‘content drought’.

As a matter of fact, I suspect those devs they took off Legendary development are being put onto content that will deal with whatever lack of it you think exists to get it to us faster.

So the content drought argument for keeping Legendary development … is nonsense. The legendary development cancellation is to address content drought, it doesn’t cause it. You haven’t seen a new legendary since release until now, and it’s just one …. THAT’S content drought. Legendary development CAUSES content drought; having handfuls of devs making content you see a small fraction of every 6 months. That’s just ridiculous and Anet made the right decision to stop it.

Well lets go one step further lets cancel legendary armor aswell since that is even harder to make then 12 weapons, as others have stated its 18 pieces totaly then then have to be made to fit 10 dif race/genders.

I completely agree actually … I think legendary anything makes no sense in this game for the very same reasons they seem to be canning weapons.

Obtena.7952:

Linken.6345:

Well lets go one step further lets cancel legendary armor aswell since that is even harder to make then 12 weapons, as others have stated its 18 pieces totaly then then have to be made to fit 10 dif race/genders.

I completely agree actually … I think legendary anything makes no sense in this game for the very same reasons they seem to be canning weapons.

I kind of expect this to happen since they already did it to the weapons. It’s the next “logical” step down that road. It’s still not something I want to see happen, but it makes sense if this is really the path they want to take.

I do agree that it’s probable the main reason they are still in is because they are the primary reward for raids. Though, I do see raids as another idea that could just get dropped like so many others, especially if participation ends up falling below their expectations. I’d certainly not be surprised if this first raid ended up as the only raid.

I’m not really sure what the reward/collection structure for raids/legendary armor is supposed to be, but am I correct in having the impression that completing the set is going require more than just this first raid? I know there is only one (still incomplete) collection ingame at the moment, and I’m assuming that future raids will add more. If that’s right, the armor actually getting fully implemented would be dependent on more raids being added.

Spira.4578:

If your payment to ANET gets canceled, ANET won’t hesitate to ban your account. They won’t consider the “kitten happens” factor. They will simply act as a company and demand the user to act accordingly as well.
I see no reason why a customer should acknowledge their errors and bad company choices and just let them be, while there’s money involved.

And if you feel that ANet isn’t delivering on what you paid for, cancel your account and don’t consider the “kitten happens” factor. You can get your refund, and it won’t matter that they close your account ‘cause you’re leaving already. The sunk cost fallacy still applies here. You can walk away from them just as much as they can walk away from you.

Spira.4578:

Yea, you stated it. And you have no proof of that.

Nor do you have proof that this is an ill-considered whim. I’m going what I think is more likely, but you’re right in that both our positions are positions of belief.

Spira.4578:

You don’t let the villains be, you try to fight them and make a change.

Yup, and if the villain is a company the effective way to fight them is to not give them your business, and make it public as to why. You’ve done the latter, congrats.

Spira.4578:

Why don’t you leave since you made your position clear time and again?

ROFL, because I’m enjoying the conversations going on. I’m interested in peoples perspectives, and reasoned arguments for their positions. Also, I enjoy promoting contemplation of possible factors that aren’t being considered. In short, because I try to be as informed as I can.

Spira.4578:

Yes, an unreasonable budgeting and resource allocation. If working on a new expansion is not only slowing down but actually freezing the development of the expansion players already bought, then they should relocate their resources.
They are building the second floor while the first floor is getting on fire.

To my mind a more apt metaphor would be they’re still planning the construction of a second annex while simultaneously realizing that one of the rooms in the first annex wasn’t structurally sound. Two different annexes… two distinct considerations.

Spira.4578:

Take away 6 devs from the 70 devs in the expac team, you’ll end up with 64 devs. Still doing what they were doing, just 8.62% slower (meaning, instead of releasing the next expac in 20 months, they would release it 1 month later. This means their profit would be DELAYED by 1-2 month.
Take away 6 devs from the 6 devs in the legy team, you’ll end up with 0 devs. 0 devs = No progress at any rate.

Given that the expansion team likely consists of people in different roles, it’s just as possible that 6 devs removed from the expac team means 40% slower or any other percentage you wish to throw out there including 100%. I don’t think it’s safe to assume that every dev in that team can do the work of every other dev in that team. Likewise I don’t think it’s safe to assume that all or even most of the devs in the expac team are capable of doing the work required of the legendaries development team. Different roles mean different skill sets. Likewise we don’t know what roles in the LW team the legendaries team got moved to.

Spira.4578:

In a trade where I’m involved things will go my way. If I held my end of the deal, I expect the other side to do the same. I can accept the fact that sometimes bad things happen; and that’s why I’m open to other options – However, ANET didn’t actually present any.

Other than a greater focus on LW content, you mean?

Spira.4578:

Yea, bad things happen, however, you’re supposed to deal with those bad things by yourself or you could ASK for help.
ANET didn’t do that. They simply acted on their own without consulting with the customers who already paid to get the product in the state that it was promoted.

Consulting the customers? Customers pay for products but they don’t own the company. Even most employees don’t have the authority to consult with the leadership, and they work for the company. Further down you recognize that it isn’t feasible in this case for the company to effectively consult, so I’ll drop this for now.

Spira.4578:

How about you first stop being so holier than tho’? .

No, but thank you for asking.

Spira.4578:

And to answer to this insult. No, that’s not how things always work.
It is also an expectation for adults that they would have some sense for money value. Which you clearly don’t since you’re okay with the fact that ANET took your money but didn’t deliver the product as promoted. I’m sure you’ll “see this situation in a different way” tho,
“where ANET is the victim who simply wanted all the best for the community”.

I’ve never thought of ANet as anything more than a business. They’re not my friend, they’re a company. I think their product is awesome, and I like what I know of their employees. But, I don’t base any purchasing decisions on a digital product that hasn’t been completed. I look at digitial products as they are when money changes hands, not what their future is promised to be. I get entertainment for my money now, and when I cease getting entertainment worth my money I will move on to other sources of entertainment.

Marketing is lies. How far those lies can stretch is determined by local laws, but it is always lies none-the-less. When is the last time you ordered fast food and what you got looked like the picture?

That is one of the ways I approach money value… I base it on what’s in front of me and the information I can research about it; not on marketing. So, how is my approach to money value more flawed than yours? I make sure my digital purchases aren’t based on promises of the future. I’m sorry you didn’t do the same.

Spira.4578:

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.

LWS3 will be gated behind HoT, and that content coming faster means more of it… that is certainly a form of compensation to those in HoT. For me, it wouldn’t matter if it is Core instead of HoT; ymmv.

Spira.4578:

ROFL. Yea, you have a GREAT sense for trading.

Thank you… you intend that as an insult, but I’m taking it as a compliment. I’m happy to be open to the idea that compensation can be something other than a partial refund or a one-for-one product exchange.

Spira.4578:

Not to mention that the company is supposed to ask the customer if they are okay with the change. Clearly, something on this level can’t be done in such manner, so a partial refund should be in order (it’s being practiced with e-goods since 2015)

We agree that some type of remuneration is in order, at least. As to be expected we don’t agree on what that is.

Spira.4578:

You must be new here. That’s exactly to what ANET reacts. “Raging” on a forum and other social media.

I try to be cautious not to confuse correlation with causation. I think that ANet heavily considers player consensus, but that’s not always the same as giving in to people being vocal in social media.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643

Spira.4578:

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.

LWS3 will be gated behind HoT, and that content coming faster means more of it… that is certainly a form of compensation to those in HoT. For me, it wouldn’t matter if it is Core instead of HoT; ymmv.
~EW

Nope, to me that still counts as marketing and vague info. They’re telling you their intent… but nothing concrete… “set of 16” isn’t enough for me; those are just words for their intended finished product. Show me some concept art, and some lore, and some video of characters wielding them and showing off effects, and then there starts to be something substantive to base a purchasing decision on. I’ll believe the product exists when the code is done.

~EW

With these two quotes side to side how can you say that LWS3 will be more since they pump it out faster.

They havent even said how many episodes we will get witch we all know are marketing lies anyway.

They havent shown you any art or lore or video of a character running through it.

Linken.6345:

EphemeralWallaby.7643

Spira.4578:

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.

LWS3 will be gated behind HoT, and that content coming faster means more of it… that is certainly a form of compensation to those in HoT. For me, it wouldn’t matter if it is Core instead of HoT; ymmv.
~EW

Nope, to me that still counts as marketing and vague info. They’re telling you their intent… but nothing concrete… “set of 16” isn’t enough for me; those are just words for their intended finished product. Show me some concept art, and some lore, and some video of characters wielding them and showing off effects, and then there starts to be something substantive to base a purchasing decision on. I’ll believe the product exists when the code is done.

~EW

With these two quotes side to side how can you say that LWS3 will be more since they pump it out faster.

They havent even said how many episodes we will get witch we all know are marketing lies anyway.

They havent shown you any art or lore or video of a character running through it.

And likewise since the compensation hasn’t been delivered, I don’t accept it’s happened yet. I do think this is what’s been offered, but since it hasn’t been delivered, it’s all still hypothetical at this point.

Time will tell if that does wind up being the remuneration that we’re given… or something else… or nothing at all.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Linken.6345:

EphemeralWallaby.7643

Spira.4578:

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.

LWS3 will be gated behind HoT, and that content coming faster means more of it… that is certainly a form of compensation to those in HoT. For me, it wouldn’t matter if it is Core instead of HoT; ymmv.
~EW

Nope, to me that still counts as marketing and vague info. They’re telling you their intent… but nothing concrete… “set of 16” isn’t enough for me; those are just words for their intended finished product. Show me some concept art, and some lore, and some video of characters wielding them and showing off effects, and then there starts to be something substantive to base a purchasing decision on. I’ll believe the product exists when the code is done.

~EW

With these two quotes side to side how can you say that LWS3 will be more since they pump it out faster.

They havent even said how many episodes we will get witch we all know are marketing lies anyway.

They havent shown you any art or lore or video of a character running through it.

And likewise since the compensation hasn’t been delivered, I don’t accept it’s happened yet. It’s been offered, but it hasn’t been delivered…. so yeah, it’s all still hypothetical at this point.

Time will tell if that does wind up being the remuneration that we’re given… or something else… or nothing at all.

~EW

Yea and if its only 2 episodes we cant techincaly say they werent suposed to release only 1 so you can say see more

Linken.6345:

Yea and if its only 2 episodes we cant techincaly say they werent suposed to release only 1 so you can say see more

You can always ask in the next AMA how the scope of the LW has changed with the absorption of the legendries team… or maybe even send MO an email, since he made that offer in the OP.

If you don’t get an answer, or don’t believe the answer you’re told, then it’s definitely reasonable to not accept that as a remuneration.

~EW

Why are you all even still posting in this thread, none of the new legendaries even look that good, aside from the axe. Besides, they made their decision, deal with it, there’s plenty of other legendaries for you to make.

If you are confused why people are posting on this thread perhaps you should read all the posts. If you don’t like what people are posting, that’s your problem deal with it.

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it

There’s a difference tho.
Those people got what their paid for. The additional maps were not something that were included in the original game and were also not promoted. They were add ons added later on.

In this case, we paid for this product and didn’t get it in the state that it was advertized.

In other words, in your example you’re talking about adding bonus content for bonus money.
While what happened here was adding bonus content for bonus money and then taking some of this parts away.

But we did get it in the state it was advertised. Legendary weapons where always coming later. Same as raids, sure they where a selling point of HoT, and wrongly so, but we got HoT in the state it was advertised.

“Later” is literally a short description of what they said about when and how we would get it.
They actually said we would get them in small groups (first mistake here, as 1 legendary short bow is in no way a group) and in regular intervals – which, 1 month, 4 months, indifinitelly suspended is not.
At the same time we also didn’t get fractal leaderboards, some guild functions and some masteries.
We also didn’t get “4 of the biggest maps of Guild Wars 2”.
All of it was promoted and I’m sure I missed a few things as well.
You are trying to defend ANET based on an alternative interpretation of the things they wrote, while what they wrote is so clear that it doesn’t even need any kind of interpretation.

Not defending just stating fact. This is the same argument that’s been going around in circles on every page of this thread. We know, they know. But when people way we didn’t get HoT as it should have been, that’s just not true. Yes we should be upset with ANet for not delivering on what they said, and what they advertised.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Linken.6345:

EphemeralWallaby.7643

Spira.4578:

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.

LWS3 will be gated behind HoT, and that content coming faster means more of it… that is certainly a form of compensation to those in HoT. For me, it wouldn’t matter if it is Core instead of HoT; ymmv.
~EW

Nope, to me that still counts as marketing and vague info. They’re telling you their intent… but nothing concrete… “set of 16” isn’t enough for me; those are just words for their intended finished product. Show me some concept art, and some lore, and some video of characters wielding them and showing off effects, and then there starts to be something substantive to base a purchasing decision on. I’ll believe the product exists when the code is done.

~EW

With these two quotes side to side how can you say that LWS3 will be more since they pump it out faster.

They havent even said how many episodes we will get witch we all know are marketing lies anyway.

They havent shown you any art or lore or video of a character running through it.

And likewise since the compensation hasn’t been delivered, I don’t accept it’s happened yet. I do think this is what’s been offered, but since it hasn’t been delivered, it’s all still hypothetical at this point.

Time will tell if that does wind up being the remuneration that we’re given… or something else… or nothing at all.

~EW

They don’t just get to decide what to offer as compensation and expect it to be accepted. That is absolutely not how consumer protections regarding advertising work. Precisely what is stated in your advertisement, marketing, or promotional material is precisely what they are obligated to deliver. If they want to offer some substitute that they feel is equal, it is entirely up to the customer’s discretion as to whether or not they choose to accept it.

If the details advertised are vague, then there is certainly room to argue that what was advertised was still, at least on technicality, provided. For example, the claim that HoT’s maps are “some of the biggest” in the game might not be true in terms of the actual content and how much of the map is actually used in playable content. But the verticality and open spaces do mean that the maps encompass a large area in terms of their measurable dimensions. Advertising that your game will deliver a “set of 16 legendary weapons” isn’t ambiguous or vague. Whether or not you choose to believe that marketing does not change the fact that it specifically states what is being sold.

I am very much allright with the decicion from OP.
I like this game and keep coming back to it, but Legendary crafting/grinding was never on my list of things I want to do next.

I can see however, that it will make people sad, as the team really got to another legendary level with the last 3 designs they did. (Hope, ect..)

Meanwhile they have a whole dev dedicated to posting about and fixing a single bug in a single temporary event… and they wonder why they can’t get stuff done.

I’m also fine with the decision. I have some sympathy for the legendary collectors but I don’t really believe anyone bought the game just for the legendaries.

In a perfect world anet would have infinite resources and be able to do everything but if they have to choose then I think that concentrating on content that benefits the majority of players is the best decision. Roll on the 19th.

mrstealth.6701:

They don’t just get to decide what to offer as compensation and expect it to be accepted. That is absolutely not how consumer protections regarding advertising work. Precisely what is stated in your advertisement, marketing, or promotional material is precisely what they are obligated to deliver. If they want to offer some substitute that they feel is equal, it is entirely up to the customer’s discretion as to whether or not they choose to accept it.

They don’t have to expect it to be accepted, no, but they can (and should) make the offer. And, yeah, it’s always the choice of the consumer to refuse that offer. We’re not disagreeing on that point. The big problem is that all the people who believe a partial compensation is in order won’t ever agree on what that should be, so whatever is offered will be rejected by some.

mrstealth.6701:

If the details advertised are vague, then there is certainly room to argue that what was advertised was still, at least on technicality, provided. For example, the claim that HoT’s maps are “some of the biggest” in the game might not be true in terms of the actual content and how much of the map is actually used in playable content. But the verticality and open spaces do mean that the maps encompass a large area in terms of their measurable dimensions. Advertising that your game will deliver a “set of 16 legendary weapons” isn’t ambiguous or vague. Whether or not you choose to believe that marketing does not change the fact that it specifically states what is being sold.

And there’s always the fine print, and there’s the eula, and there’s other factors in the local laws like what the allowable wriggle room is between marketing and the delivered product, and on, and on… all which mean that if you feel a company has broken the law, then you consult a lawyer who is versed in that law. ‘I feel wronged therefore the law must have been broken’ is not an acceptable conclusion to jump to… it is a valid and worthwhile possibility to explore if you’re invested enough to do so.

If you do, I’m very interested in what you find out, no matter what way it goes.

~EW

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

I can tell that some of you have never tried to get Trading Standards to do anything for you and any lawyer consultation would end with “so they did not give any timescale for delivering these items and they have suspended them rather than cancelled them?”

cesmode.4257:

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

Nothing, I only log in to help my guild run our internal guild lottery. I get my daily chest, advertise and maintain the guild lottery sheet. Then I log off. Anet is so out of touch with their own game it is disgusting. We’re supposed to accept having the main selling point of HoT cancelled so that we can get 30 minutes of story content a couple of weeks earlier.

Legendary weapons are not the main selling point to Heart of Thorns. If they were, they would have been released WITH Heart of Thorns.

Besides, the main selling point for many people will vary – story, elite specializations, the new areas, guild halls, stronghold, wvw changes. All of these can be a main selling point depending on who you talk to.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And there’s always the fine print, and there’s the eula, and there’s other factors in the local laws like what the allowable wriggle room is between marketing and the delivered product, and on, and on… all which mean that if you feel a company has broken the law, then you consult a lawyer who is versed in that law. ‘I feel wronged therefore the law must have been broken’ is not an acceptable conclusion to jump to… it is a valid and worthwhile possibility to explore if you’re invested enough to do so.

If you do, I’m very interested in what you find out, no matter what way it goes.

~EW

They most likely realize what they have done is wrong on an ethical level. It still could wrong on a legal one as well, but Anet does have a sense of security behind fine print, technicalities, and legal shielding provided their own EULA (it does contain anti-litigation/binding arbitration clauses). It’s not a matter of “I feel wronged so a law must have been broken”, it’s a matter of there being laws specifically made to stop companies from doing this very thing. It’s just prohibitively difficult and costly to pursue, with cost of seeking compensation is exponentially higher than the compensation itself could ever be.

It’s sort of like when someone with diplomatic immunity commits a crime. They know it’s wrong. Everyone else knows it’s wrong. There’s just kitten all anyone can actually do about it because of the fine print.

Some of you are harping on the “ethical” stuff here and whether or not they realize what they are doing is wrong…and what you think you are entitled to and what you think Arenanet will do to make you happy here…

Let me just say a few words on this…

Realizing and caring/doing something about it are different things. They will most likely do nothing due to this little outcry of legendaries. They know that the masses don’t read the forums and dont really care.

If you have any doubts of my assumptions, let me direct you to the forums 2-3 years ago when they revealed “ascended weapons”. My gosh…anyone that was around during that time predicted doom for the game (including myself, albeit it its one of the reasons I stopped playing..in the end I decided to make my voice heard with the absence of my wallet after a few dev decisions that didn’t sit with me). Thread after thread for what seemed like 1-2 years, threads hundreds of pages long. Every day, its all you saw on the forums. An entire AMA was ad-hoc and “spur of the moment” created to address the insane rage that the community felt about this betrayel. Yet, nothing…nothing was done to address this. They had their own plan, their own decision making, their own views, their own statistics, and they went ahead full steam FULL KNOWING what wrath we would bring to their door step. I know this for a fact because during the AMA, Chris Whiteside answered one of my questions DIRECTLY when I asked him if Arenanet knew what our reaction would be like, why go ahead with this decision? They know what they are doing and what the consequences will be. They also know that you hold little sway over their decision making. This is their game, as much as you like to think its OURS, its theirs. They decide what goes into it, they decide what suggestions from us to consider.

So, while there are many of you that think the world is crumbling today because of this announcement, or that Arenanet(or any developer) has a modicum of compassion for your slight(imagined or otherwise), or if you think this is some sort of “false advertising”…think again. A bigger, louder, much more rage-filled argument than this was brought to Arenanets dinner table 2-3 years ago and they did nothing.

You all have three options:

1. Continue playing, begrudgingly or otherwise and support the game financially.

2. Continue playing, begrudgingly or otherwise and do not support the game financially.

3. Stop playing.

Because at the end of the day, despite their PR claims of “being a gamer like you”, they are company first with profits on their minds first and the masses <> you or me on the forums. They know this and they know that you won’t or will fail at any sort of laughable kitten attempt at some class action “lawsuit” that countless of you threaten. They make BUSINESS decisions to manage their company and resources the best they can to make shareholders happy(is Anet even traded? I dont even know… but the principal is the same).

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns heralds the beginning of the first new set of legendary weapons to be added to the game since its original set of twenty included in the launch of Guild Wars 2. The first three we’ll release are a celestially themed axe called Astralaria, an experimental energy themed pistol called H.O.P.E., and a raven spirit themed staff called Nevermore. It takes a lot of work to craft these legendary journeys for release, so rather than take the time to develop the full set before releasing any of them, we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game. Collections for the existing legendary weapons will be available on launch day, while the first three new legendaries will become available shortly after launch, alongside raids.

As far as i see this Anet kinda shot themselves in the foot. But at the same time halting production of one thing to bring another is no problem to me as i am still making all the old legendaries.

mrstealth.6701:

They most likely realize what they have done is wrong on an ethical level. It still could wrong on a legal one as well, but Anet does have a sense of security behind fine print, technicalities, and legal shielding provided their own EULA (it does contain anti-litigation/binding arbitration clauses). It’s not a matter of “I feel wronged so a law must have been broken”, it’s a matter of there being laws specifically made to stop companies from doing this very thing. It’s just prohibitively difficult and costly to pursue, with cost of seeking compensation is exponentially higher than the compensation itself could ever be.

It’s sort of like when someone with diplomatic immunity commits a crime. They know it’s wrong. Everyone else knows it’s wrong. There’s just kitten all anyone can actually do about it because of the fine print.

If they’ve done something wrong ethically, then that’s a subjective call on the part of the consumer (flame bait, I know… but I have studied ethics in the past… feel free to disagree on this specific point… but I’m not going to argue it any further than that). Yes, I think there are enough mitigating factors to not automatically jump to the decision that this as an unethical decision. ‘I feel wronged’ isn’t the same thing as ’I’ve been wronged,’ and the laws are there to make that distinction.

To be clear for my part: I think a refocus on ‘sustainability’ and a bolster to the LW team is compensation enough for the ‘indefinite postponement’ of legendaries. I think focusing on such sustainability should be the direction the company takes instead of hopping from one idea to the next… which is the stated intention of MO now that he’s taken over for Collin… I like that change in the ship’s heading… if they do in fact deliver. For those that find that unacceptable, there are other avenues to pursue.

~EW

cesmode.4257:

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

Cesmode how much AP do you have? Waht level Fractal are you on? What is your PVP rank and your WVW rank? also how many Legendaries do you already own? If all of those things are high then i can understand your complaint for not grinding or playing for more than 20 min at a time. But if u only have 4k AP no fractals and so forth then please dont say them cancelling new legendaries is holting your character progression. When in fact it is just yourself that is the issue.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

mrstealth.6701:

They most likely realize what they have done is wrong on an ethical level. It still could wrong on a legal one as well, but Anet does have a sense of security behind fine print, technicalities, and legal shielding provided their own EULA (it does contain anti-litigation/binding arbitration clauses). It’s not a matter of “I feel wronged so a law must have been broken”, it’s a matter of there being laws specifically made to stop companies from doing this very thing. It’s just prohibitively difficult and costly to pursue, with cost of seeking compensation is exponentially higher than the compensation itself could ever be.

It’s sort of like when someone with diplomatic immunity commits a crime. They know it’s wrong. Everyone else knows it’s wrong. There’s just kitten all anyone can actually do about it because of the fine print.

If they’ve done something wrong ethically, then that’s a subjective call on the part of the consumer (flame bait, I know… but I have studied ethics in the past… feel free to disagree on this specific point… but I’m not going to argue it any further than that). Yes, I think there are enough mitigating factors to not automatically jump to the decision that this as an unethical decision. ‘I feel wronged’ isn’t the same thing as ’I’ve been wronged,’ and the laws are there to make that distinction.

To be clear for my part: I think a refocus on ‘sustainability’ and a bolster to the LW team is compensation enough for the ‘indefinite postponement’ of legendaries. I think focusing on such sustainability should be the direction the company takes instead of hopping from one idea to the next… which is the stated intention of MO now that he’s taken over for Collin… I like that change in the ship’s heading… if they do in fact deliver. For those that find that unacceptable, there are other avenues to pursue.

~EW

I do agree. Some things like Fractals and other areas of the Game need more content and new LS would be great. Less grinding which they working on apparently ( dont know how) also is a great thing. I couldnt care if i had to wait longer for new legendaries if it meant more stable content in what the game already offers.

cesmode.4257:

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

My interests currently lie in two main areas. The first is that I like to explore build diversity. I like to see what the options actually are in the class I’m currently obsessing over. This is also where all my gold goes to… my bank is mostly filled with various gear for my toons, lol. The second is most recent, and that is exploring dungeons solo. I find it a fun and interesting challenge.

I do enjoy the SW events and the world boss train… but not for the possible RNG loot (I try not to fall into the trap of the Skinner Box)… I just like being swept by the flow of the people and events.

~EW

Broken Memory.1436:

cesmode.4257:

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

Cesmode how much AP do you have? Waht level Fractal are you on? What is your PVP rank and your WVW rank? also how many Legendaries do you already own? If all of those things are high then i can understand your complaint for not grinding or playing for more than 20 min at a time. But if u only have 4k AP no fractals and so forth then please dont say them cancelling new legendaries is holting your character progression. When in fact it is just yourself that is the issue.

I am not Cesmode but to answer your question I have 22,599, am rank 76 PvP, idk probably like 400 WvW but WvW has been broken since launch and all of the blatant imbalance and game mode issues with it went ignored for that long so w/e, I have 7 legendaries one of which is HOPE and that is a choice because the other ones of the old set I don’t like and was looking forward to the new ones, I’m at level 80 personal level for Fractals (despite having the AR to do up to 100) since I basically realized all of the new instabilities are just boring ways of making the fight tedious and not actually more fun and that there is no motivation to do anything but swamp. If LS3 is even remotely similar to LS2 then it will amount to like 10 hours of content, and if that is true then I spent more hours working on just HOPE than I will ever spend on LS3.

Warcry.1596:

Legendary weapons are not the main selling point to Heart of Thorns. If they were, they would have been released WITH Heart of Thorns.

Whether they are a major selling point of the expansion is of course subjective, but regardless of that, they still are a major expansion feature. Because they were named as such. By Anet.

Broken Memory.1436:

cesmode.4257:

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

Cesmode how much AP do you have? Waht level Fractal are you on? What is your PVP rank and your WVW rank? also how many Legendaries do you already own? If all of those things are high then i can understand your complaint for not grinding or playing for more than 20 min at a time. But if u only have 4k AP no fractals and so forth then please dont say them cancelling new legendaries is holting your character progression. When in fact it is just yourself that is the issue.

Re-read. I currently do not play the game but when I left the game(about 2 years ago now), I was well over 1k hours. At that time, I think that would be considered high…probably more than you at that time

If your grocer charges you for a dozen eggs but only gives you eleven, then says he’s indefinitely suspending the selling of eggs because it’s better than he should use his chickens for chicken noodle soup, then refuses to even talk to you about it, much less offer any sort of compensation for the egg you didn’t get, would you continue to shop at his store? Would you recommend his store to your friends? Would you warn your friends about this grocer’s business practices?

You can spin it, whitewash it, excuse it however you like, place your bet and your faith and your cash squarely on a couple of wiggle words, but that won’t change the fact that if you bought HoT, you didn’t get what you paid for.

Anet took your money, and didn’t deliver what they advertised.

Tachenon.5270:

If your grocer charges you for a dozen eggs but only gives you eleven, then says he’s indefinitely suspending the selling of eggs because it’s better than he should use his chickens for chicken noodle soup, then refuses to even talk to you about it, much less offer any sort of compensation for the egg you didn’t get, would you continue to shop at his store? Would you recommend his store to your friends? Would you warn your friends about this grocer’s business practices?

If your grocer advertises a special of bogo cans of green beans, then tells you they can’t deliver them because they don’t have them, they’ll try and find ways to make up for it: rain check for when it comes back, even if they don’t have an eta (‘indefinitely postpone’), corn as a substitute (increased LW production), or refund. If you no longer trust the store, and hate their business practices, then you’re gunna wind up leaving in any case and not shop there again no matter what they do… so a refund is certainly viable: you walk away with your money back, and they don’t get it.

~EW

cesmode.4257:

If you have any doubts of my assumptions, let me direct you to the forums 2-3 years ago when they revealed “ascended weapons”. My gosh…anyone that was around during that time predicted doom for the game (including myself, albeit it its one of the reasons I stopped playing..in the end I decided to make my voice heard with the absence of my wallet after a few dev decisions that didn’t sit with me). Thread after thread for what seemed like 1-2 years, threads hundreds of pages long. Every day, its all you saw on the forums. An entire AMA was ad-hoc and “spur of the moment” created to address the insane rage that the community felt about this betrayel. Yet, nothing…nothing was done to address this. They had their own plan, their own decision making, their own views, their own statistics, and they went ahead full steam FULL KNOWING what wrath we would bring to their door step.

It’s kinda funny that you mention that. Just last year they finally did something that was essentially an answer to one of the biggest concerns back then. Mystic Forge recipes were added to, rather cheaply, change the stats of ascended gear (excluding jewelry). Had ascended gear initially came with that option, or if it were added during that round of forum rage, I think the outcry would have been far less severe.

Of course, we don’t know and likely never will, if the community response from back then had any impact on the change being implemented. There’s just as much of a chance it was a new idea thought up for convenience, as there is chance it was something picked up off the table from 3 years ago.

cesmode.4257:

I have a question…

Since legendaries are no longer a priority for arenanet….

What is there to do in GW2 these days that keep you progressing your character? What drives you to continue to log in, farm events, etc etc. Is it masteries or something?

(serious legit question…havent played for more than 20 minutes in 1.5 yrs)

Not much. It’s not only the legendary thing but also the abysmal RNG that made me pretty much loose interest. I only log in to get the daily candy, open it and log off. I spend most of my gaming time playing more rewarding games.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tachenon.5270:

If your grocer charges you for a dozen eggs but only gives you eleven, then says he’s indefinitely suspending the selling of eggs because it’s better than he should use his chickens for chicken noodle soup, then refuses to even talk to you about it, much less offer any sort of compensation for the egg you didn’t get, would you continue to shop at his store? Would you recommend his store to your friends? Would you warn your friends about this grocer’s business practices?

If your grocer advertises a special of bogo cans of green beans, then tells you they can’t deliver them, they often do a couple things to try and make up for it: rain check for when it comes back (‘indefinitely postpone’), corn as a substitute (increased LW production), or refund. If you no longer trust the store, and hate their business practices, then you’re gunna wind up leaving in any case and not shop there again no matter what they do… so a refund is certainly acceptable: you walk away with your money back, and they don’t get it.

~EW

Why do you care more about anet than the customers who paid for something anet isn’t going to give them?

Tachenon.5270:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tachenon.5270:

If your grocer charges you for a dozen eggs but only gives you eleven, then says he’s indefinitely suspending the selling of eggs because it’s better than he should use his chickens for chicken noodle soup, then refuses to even talk to you about it, much less offer any sort of compensation for the egg you didn’t get, would you continue to shop at his store? Would you recommend his store to your friends? Would you warn your friends about this grocer’s business practices?

If your grocer advertises a special of bogo cans of green beans, then tells you they can’t deliver them, they often do a couple things to try and make up for it: rain check for when it comes back (‘indefinitely postpone’), corn as a substitute (increased LW production), or refund. If you no longer trust the store, and hate their business practices, then you’re gunna wind up leaving in any case and not shop there again no matter what they do… so a refund is certainly acceptable: you walk away with your money back, and they don’t get it.

~EW

Why do you care more about anet than the customers who paid for something anet isn’t going to give them?

Nothing you can read there should give you the impression there is more care for customer than Anet. You’re just looking for an argument.

Obtena.7952:

Tachenon.5270:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tachenon.5270:

If your grocer charges you for a dozen eggs but only gives you eleven, then says he’s indefinitely suspending the selling of eggs because it’s better than he should use his chickens for chicken noodle soup, then refuses to even talk to you about it, much less offer any sort of compensation for the egg you didn’t get, would you continue to shop at his store? Would you recommend his store to your friends? Would you warn your friends about this grocer’s business practices?

If your grocer advertises a special of bogo cans of green beans, then tells you they can’t deliver them, they often do a couple things to try and make up for it: rain check for when it comes back (‘indefinitely postpone’), corn as a substitute (increased LW production), or refund. If you no longer trust the store, and hate their business practices, then you’re gunna wind up leaving in any case and not shop there again no matter what they do… so a refund is certainly acceptable: you walk away with your money back, and they don’t get it.

~EW

Why do you care more about anet than the customers who paid for something anet isn’t going to give them?

Nothing you can read there should give you the impression there is more care for customer than Anet. You’re just looking for an argument.

I think you read that backwards…

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Tachenon.5270:

If your grocer charges you for a dozen eggs but only gives you eleven, then says he’s indefinitely suspending the selling of eggs because it’s better than he should use his chickens for chicken noodle soup, then refuses to even talk to you about it, much less offer any sort of compensation for the egg you didn’t get, would you continue to shop at his store? Would you recommend his store to your friends? Would you warn your friends about this grocer’s business practices?

If your grocer advertises a special of bogo cans of green beans, then tells you they can’t deliver them because they don’t have them, they’ll try and find ways to make up for it: rain check for when it comes back, even if they don’t have an eta (‘indefinitely postpone’), corn as a substitute (increased LW production), or refund. If you no longer trust the store, and hate their business practices, then you’re gunna wind up leaving in any case and not shop there again no matter what they do… so a refund is certainly viable: you walk away with your money back, and they don’t get it.

~EW

Anet has made no offer to make up for it. They have not even apologized. If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation for your loss. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

Not knowing precisely when an advertised item, for which a store has issued a raincheck, will be back in stock is not the same as no longer actively working on producing an advertised item. in general that grocer will be actively seeking to resupply the raincheck item.

Ashen.2907:

Anet has made no offer to make up for it. They have not even apologized. If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

When you signed up for the game you agreed that anet can do anything they like.

bananaman.1685:

Ashen.2907:

Anet has made no offer to make up for it. They have not even apologized. If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

When you signed up for the game you agreed that anet can do anything they like.

The only thing present to be signed at the time of my purchase was a credit card receipt.

bananaman.1685:

Ashen.2907:

Anet has made no offer to make up for it. They have not even apologized. If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

When you signed up for the game you agreed that anet can do anything they like.

I didn’t sign up for anything I purchased a subscription free product with advertised claims that have been reneged.

If you’re arguing against those who hold that anet was wrong to choose to not deliver what they advertised, then you’re arguing in favor of anet not delivering what they advertise. You are, in essence, arguing in favor of anet not delivering what YOU pay for someday.

Why would you do that?

Ashen.2907:

Anet has made no offer to make up for it.

That’s sadly where we disagree… I see the LW production as the offer… I also recognize they just haven’t delivered on it yet.

Ashen.2907:

If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

I don’t disagree that their refund policy is controversial… but it’s a refund policy that’s been in place a long time, and that is your responsibility as the other party of the user license to understand before you sign. If you disagree with their refund policy, or anything else in their eula, you don’t click that you agree to it. That’s software user 101.

And you bought a user’s licence, not a physical product… and you used it…. the ‘take away everything you’ve ever bought from them’ argument against their refund policy is incredibly flawed.

~EW

Ive already read negative feedback about HoT at amazon highliting this as a reason. Colin Has to be grinning.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

If your grocer advertises a special of bogo cans of green beans, then tells you they can’t deliver them because they don’t have them, they’ll try and find ways to make up for it: rain check for when it comes back, even if they don’t have an eta (‘indefinitely postpone’), corn as a substitute (increased LW production), or refund.

I shouldn’t have to point out again that substitutes are likely not an option in such a case, unless the customer agrees to accept it. If the customer refuses substitution, rain checks, or refunds in an applicable scenario, would be the options available for the consumer to resolve the issue. And the rain check can (as they do where I live) carry with it limitations on the time allowed to fulfill. I think the refund option would also still leave the seller open to other penalties, as the advertisement was still false and left unfulfilled, though that would be between the seller and legal system instead of the customer..

Ultimately, it is the consumer that has the power to decide what is or isn’t an acceptable resolution, if it is not fulfillment of the advertised product or appropriate refund.

It is definitely less clear in the situation at hand with this game. It’s a lot more complicated when it’s a product or service that was slated for later delivery, and has’t yet been completed by the seller. Even more so when the issue revolves around only a part of the product. But there is definitely something wrong when a seller can just decide to not fulfill their advertisement, and declare themselves the sole party to determine what is an appropriate response to the customer. Ethical behavior, despite being subjective in many ways, does include some aspects that are generally shared across the board. I’m think I can say with a fair amount of confidence that most would agree being dishonest or misleading is not ethical behavior.

Tachenon.5270:

If you’re arguing against those who hold that anet was wrong to choose to not deliver what they advertised, then you’re arguing in favor of anet not delivering what they advertise. You are, in essence, arguing in favor of anet not delivering what YOU pay for someday.

Why would you do that?

Because the content is worth paying for. I recognize that I didn’t ONLY pay for one singular feature when I got HoT.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Ashen.2907:

Anet has made no offer to make up for it.

That’s sadly where we disagree… I see the LW production as the offer… I also recognize they just haven’t delivered on it yet.

Ashen.2907:

If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

I don’t disagree that their refund policy is controversial… but it’s a refund policy that’s been in place a long time, and that is your responsibility as the other party of the user license to understand before you sign. If you disagree with their refund policy, or anything else in their eula, you don’t click that you agree to it. That’s software user 101.

And you bought a user’s licence, not a physical product… and you used it…. the ‘take away everything you’ve ever bought from them’ argument against their refund policy is incredibly flawed.

~EW

Work on the LW was announced prior to the cessation of production of new legendaries. Something that they were going to do anyway, as a basic part of their business plan, as established over a period of multiple years, is not an effort to compensate players for the company’s failure to deliver an advertised product.

Buy once, play forever. That license was sold (note sold, not leased or rented) as access to the game for as long as it exists. Depriving the purchaser of access to the core game as a punitive action for seeking a refund of a different purchase is where the flaw lies.

Obtena.7952:

Tachenon.5270:

If you’re arguing against those who hold that anet was wrong to choose to not deliver what they advertised, then you’re arguing in favor of anet not delivering what they advertise. You are, in essence, arguing in favor of anet not delivering what YOU pay for someday.

Why would you do that?

Because the content is worth paying for. I recognize that I didn’t ONLY pay for one singular feature when I got HoT.

That doesn’t answer the question I asked, but whatever. No, you didn’t pay for one singular feature, you paid for ALL OF IT. Which is precisely what you didn’t get.

Tachenon.5270:

If you’re arguing against those who hold that anet was wrong to choose to not deliver what they advertised, then you’re arguing in favor of anet not delivering what they advertise. You are, in essence, arguing in favor of anet not delivering what YOU pay for someday.

Why would you do that?

‘If you’re not an apple, then you’re a banana’ type of thinking discounts the existence of pears and oranges which are neither of the first two fruits. Imo such binary thinking always does more harm than good.

~EW

Tachenon.5270:

If you’re arguing against those who hold that anet was wrong to choose to not deliver what they advertised, then you’re arguing in favor of anet not delivering what they advertise. You are, in essence, arguing in favor of anet not delivering what YOU pay for someday.

Why would you do that?

Some people are arguing in favour of anet doing something else instead of legendaries. That does not make those people wrong.

cosmicegg.8502:

Ive already read negative feedback about HoT at amazon highliting this as a reason. Colin Has to be grinning.

There will always be that part of me that wonders if this is the reason he left.