And why shouldn’t elitists have their rights respected?
Let us group with the vile scum who also want to actually play with non-terrible players, and then let casuals/bads group with each other and wipe and be bad with each other, that way everybody wins. Casuals get to “have fun” wiping, and “elitists” get to clear content efficiently.
Because, on the internet, unless strictly moderated, such tools become as good as the worst part of the community. WoW went downhill due to gearscore and other elitist nonsense. Many casuals fled to this game because the community here is intended to be friendly. I hope the worst and the scrub of the internet is handled on the LFG tool. I’m talking about elitists, obviously, those who have no place in this game unless they respect the rights of the casuals.
I consider myself a very tolerant player towards others, so tell me, where do you draw the line between casual friendly and downright intolerable?
Do you think that having 3-4 people wasting hours of their time in a dungeon because the last said player(s), despite being requested in a friendly manner to change some aspect of their playing, still insist on screwing the entire team over by doing it ‘their way’ is ok?
Separating “casuals” and “elitists” (notice the quotation marks) is healthier for the community in general than forcing them to play together.
Just notice how fierce is this discussion about “casuals” and “elitists” clashing via the new LFG tool.
And why shouldn’t elitists have their rights respected?
They should be respected. I don’t join scrub groups (speedruns, zerk only and other such nonsense). I’d be very happy if scrubs let me play the way I want. I don’t discriminate except against people who discriminate.
Let us group with the vile scum who also want to actually play with non-terrible players, and then let casuals/bads group with each other and wipe and be bad with each other, that way everybody wins. Casuals get to “have fun” wiping, and “elitists” get to clear content efficiently.
Casuals aren’t necessarily bad. They do have more fun, at their own pace. I don’t get worked up over a wipe, who cares as long as we enjoy the run. So let the casuals have fun and enjoy their dungeons, while the scrubs can torture themselves in elitist groups, getting all worked up about one who doesn’t meet their silly standards.
I have no lust in the evenings to bother about being perfect. I’ve got a demanding job which requires almost all my energy and intelligence. In the evening I simply don’t care. Not one bit. And that’s the reason I don’t want to play with efficiency scrubs.
I’ve had some good and bad experiences over the past week using LFG, in general I found the following to be good rules of thumb (I go on my engineer main with a grenade spec to apply multiple stacks of vulnerability and some group support healing.):
1. If the group has any underlevels ask them if they have an 80 they can bring, if they do not, drop.
2. If thee is not at least one heavy armor class (warrior or guardian), preferably both, drop.
3. More than 1 Necro or ranger, or engineer, drop (and I am saying this as an engineer). I know this sucks but his is entirely ANet’s fault for making condition damage unstackable, you will have a much harder time with several condition appliers. Rangers suffer because pets are dumb, siphoning off a lot of their dps.
4. If folks can’t speak English or are non-responsive when you ask questions or give directions drop.
In general I do not drop if someone is new, everyone needs to learn sometime, but I will leave if folks seem unwilling to learn. A good group of new folks can clear content relatively quickly if they have a modicum of competence.
I don’t think scrub means what you think it means.
Separating “casuals” and “elitists” (notice the quotation marks) is healthier for the community in general than forcing them to play together.
Just notice how fierce is this discussion about “casuals” and “elitists” clashing via the new LFG tool.
Exactly. Let people play how they want to play and give everyone the tools to facilitate that. Otherwise you’ll just get more resentment on both sides.
I was re-reading the whole thread and decided to make compilation.Some of the ideas were really good and well thought.
Adding icons indicating what kind of group is being formed.
(edited by moiraine.2753)
a queue system was too much? is it still like lfg.com but in game?
This is what I am wondering.
I am extremely baffled by two things:
1. It took arenanet OVER a year to release any sort of LFG tool.
2. Im not in the ‘beta’, but it just seems like a fancier gw2lfg.com…with its own UI in game, etc. I dont see this as being ground breaking or any different than gw2lfg.com.
It took this long to make this?
- Differentiate Story & Explorable Mode – right now there is only 1 tab for both modes which is not the best solution.There must be 2 tabs for each mode
It also needs a tab for each path you want to do. SO many times I’ve had people join a CoF P2 looking for P1… or worse been merged with a party that wanted to do another path (big ol cluster kitten).
Separating “casuals” and “elitists” (notice the quotation marks) is healthier for the community in general than forcing them to play together.
Just notice how fierce is this discussion about “casuals” and “elitists” clashing via the new LFG tool.
It really is not. Every MMO I’ve played since EverQuest says that you are dead, dead, dead wrong.
Every one of them, the moment the elitists (who usually included me) were able to exclude the casual successful, whether by tools, gear, or whatever, the game started to get less popular, and went downhill.
There are always self-proclaimed “elitists” going on about how awesome they are and how terrible “casuals” were (which is BS, because 80% of players are in-between the extremes anyway), and they make the debate toxic by saying stuff like, oh I dunno, every post certain self-proclaimed elitists people have made in this thread, or calling people “tards” like another self-proclaimed elitist did earlier in this thread.
Then two years later when the game has zero players, the self-proclaimed elitists just blame the game company for failing to cater to them enough. If only it had been even harder, even more exclusionary, if only you could have made content for an even smaller group of people, then you definitely would not have lost the playerbase seems to be the argument, as perverse as that is.
(edited by Eurhetemec.9052)
I don’t think scrub means what you think it means.
I also don’t think he knows what elitist means. But it’s a popular world so let’s use it!
To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.
And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.
In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.
The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.
It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.
Is me leaving near the end griefing? No – it’s me being fed up.
And another thing – i’ve stated before but people don’t seem to get it – looking at you Lonesamurai.
AP means TIME SPENT IN GAME. it does not equal skill BUT it means you obviously care enough about the game to have farmed that AP.
That means there are higher chances that you’ll care enough about your time to bring a better build, to have learned when to dodge and to know the encounters.
It’s not perfect but it works.
(edited by Harper.4173)
To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.
And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.
In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.
The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.
It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.
No, that’s definitely griefing. If any of them records that on video, you’re toast.
LFG tool is simply amazing. I’d prefer ANet not to add any more filter option. People who wants to filter casual players can go somewhere else to find their kind of players but for average players it is perfect.
To give an example, I could never find lvl1 fractal group. Without LFG tool I’d be waiting hours even days to find a group. With LFG, I was able to find a group in less than a minute during morning server time and not only that we did level 1 to 3 at stretch without any problem. People were so helpful and understanding. I was also able to find story mode dungeon group who did not curse for not skipping cutscene.
LFG tool is designed for such players and should be kept as it is. One of the reasons I quit GW2 was because of difficulty in finding casual players to do contents with. Now I can stick around because of LFG tool
How does pooling casuals with casuals contradict your utopian vision?
Because, on the internet, unless strictly moderated, such tools become as good as the worst part of the community. WoW went downhill due to gearscore and other elitist nonsense. Many casuals fled to this game because the community here is intended to be friendly. I hope the worst and the scrub of the internet is handled on the LFG tool. I’m talking about elitists, obviously, those who have no place in this game unless they respect the rights of the casuals.
Good one – I’m casual and have rights that should be respected.
You’re a hardcore elitist – you have no rights.
How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?
How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?
You have that right. It is being respected. You can always leave a group you don’t want to be in.
What you are demanding is the opposite of that the right to exclude, not the right to leave.
How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?
You have that right. It is being respected. You can always leave a group you don’t want to be in.
What you are demanding is the opposite of that the right to exclude, not the right to leave.
So if i make a group – and 3 people who don’t fit my criteria join, I’m supposed to leave now?
Why do we even have to have this situation in the first place?
To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.
And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.
In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.
The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.
It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.No, that’s definitely griefing. If any of them records that on video, you’re toast.
So ragequitting is now griefing.
By this logic ragequitting any event or activity is now griefing.
You have that right. It is being respected. You can always leave a group you don’t want to be in.
What you are demanding is the opposite of that the right to exclude, not the right to leave.
People, let’s call them here vile scums, wants scrubs to not to join their properly described parties because it’s detrimental for both sides.
How hard is to grasp that simple concept?
How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?
You have that right. It is being respected. You can always leave a group you don’t want to be in.
What you are demanding is the opposite of that the right to exclude, not the right to leave.
So if i make a group – and 3 people who don’t fit my criteria join, I’m supposed to leave now?
Why do we even have to have this situation in the first place?
Leave or kick them.
The devs clearly explained their reasoning for designing the “forced join” mechanic that way.
To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.
And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.
In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.
The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.
It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.No, that’s definitely griefing. If any of them records that on video, you’re toast.
So ragequitting is now griefing.
By this logic ragequitting any event or activity is now griefing.
You can call it whatever you like. What you are doing is rules lawyering that’s not going to save you when a rational person reviews any accusations against you.
Given the amount of hypocrisy and lack of understanding of basic concepts in this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s nothing more I can do. Those who will see reason will do so – others will not.
I give up. I will play the game the way I will – and others will do it the way they will.
I will not be using this tool – since for me and many like me it’s more trouble than it’s worth.
Rage quiting is not griefing and never was.
-snip-
No one asks for exclusion tools to be implemented into the LFG. What people want is some help in finding like-minded dungeon runners and avoiding those with different approaches. It hurts no one, benefits everyone.
LFG tool is simply amazing. I’d prefer ANet not to add any more filter option. People who wants to filter casual players can go somewhere else to find their kind of players but for average players it is perfect.
To give an example, I could never find lvl1 fractal group. Without LFG tool I’d be waiting hours even days to find a group. With LFG, I was able to find a group in less than a minute during morning server time and not only that we did level 1 to 3 at stretch without any problem. People were so helpful and understanding. I was also able to find story mode dungeon group who did not curse for not skipping cutscene.
LFG tool is designed for such players and should be kept as it is. One of the reasons I quit GW2 was because of difficulty in finding casual players to do contents with. Now I can stick around because of LFG tool
How does pooling casuals with casuals contradict your utopian vision?
Because, on the internet, unless strictly moderated, such tools become as good as the worst part of the community. WoW went downhill due to gearscore and other elitist nonsense. Many casuals fled to this game because the community here is intended to be friendly. I hope the worst and the scrub of the internet is handled on the LFG tool. I’m talking about elitists, obviously, those who have no place in this game unless they respect the rights of the casuals.
Good one – I’m casual and have rights that should be respected.
You’re a hardcore elitist – you have no rights.
How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?
As you said, if you see a group you don’t like, you can drop out and try again.
To me, the the issue is all in how you present your case.
If you had said “hey, can we get a check box for speed runs?” I don’t think you’d see a huge backlash. It could even be required that groups match (your only presented with people who select speed runs).
But instead, some genius had to say “I don’t want no scrubs, rawr” which, of course, immediately earned the ire of the rest of the community. Pro-tip: presentation is 90% of everything.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
If you had said “hey, can we get a check box for speed runs?” I don’t think you’d see a huge backlash. It could even be required that groups match (your only presented with people who select speed runs).
Backlash aside, you also need to think about the design consequences of such a checkbox.
Does it reduce the list of groups people are immediately exposed to?
- Yes → remove checkboxes unless absolutely necessary (and most elitist features are not absolutely necessary)
Does it increase the number of steps one needs to make when looking for group? Can this be avoided or with a simpler interface, or the same goal be reached with a simpler interface?
- Yes → you can use the description box to find the perfect group (which will result in about the same effort and amount of steps)
Does it cost more money?
- Yes, the list is dynamically updated, the longer you keep it open the more money you are draining → your group needs to be removed asap.
If you had said “hey, can we get a check box for speed runs?” I don’t think you’d see a huge backlash. It could even be required that groups match (your only presented with people who select speed runs).
Backlash aside, you also need to think about the design consequences of such a checkbox.
Does it reduce the list of groups people are immediately exposed to?
- Yes -> remove checkboxes unless absolutely necessary (and most elitist features are not absolutely necessary)Does it increase the number of steps one needs to make when looking for group? Can this be avoided or with a simpler interface, or the same goal be reached with a simpler interface?
- Yes -> you can use the description box to find the perfect group (which will result in about the same effort and amount of steps)Does it cost more money?
- Yes, the list is dynamically updated, the longer you keep it open the more money you are draining -> your group needs to be removed asap.
Ok. I stand corrected.
Sorry mate, people who discriminate have no particular rights over the people they try to discriminate against. Catering to discrimination is heavily frowned upon. It’s simply not good for the game.
Klansman think they have particular rights too, but I’m not inclined to cater to them one way or another.
Are you some kind of jester?
-snip-
No one asks for exclusion tools to be implemented into the LFG. What people want is some help in finding like-minded dungeon runners and avoiding those with different approaches. It hurts no one, benefits everyone.
Several people, including Colesy and Harper specifically asked for exclusion tools, so you are incorrect.
What help is it that you want if you don’t want exclusion tools?
So if i make a group – and 3 people who don’t fit my criteria join, I’m supposed to leave now?
Why do we even have to have this situation in the first place?
Because you are unable to politely ask them to leave, and don’t have enough friends, apparently!
I mean, if it’s the other way around, what am I supposed to do – say I start a group for Path X of Dungeon Y, and say in the description that it is not a speedrun and I want to view the cinematics and so on, and I get three full Zerker speedrun types who yell GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO the whole time and cry rivers about me not skipping the cinematics (and or manage to cause problems because of that), what am I supposed to do?
All you can do, if you don’t have the majority, is ask politely. That’s life. Usually it works, if you are actually polite.
Well, this is why I don’t run dungeons here. Which is a pity, because I was really looking forward to using this tool and finally learning them.
Separating “casuals” and “elitists” (notice the quotation marks) is healthier for the community in general than forcing them to play together.
Just notice how fierce is this discussion about “casuals” and “elitists” clashing via the new LFG tool.
It really is not. Every MMO I’ve played since EverQuest says that you are dead, dead, dead wrong.
Every one of them, the moment the elitists (who usually included me) were able to exclude the casual successful, whether by tools, gear, or whatever, the game started to get less popular, and went downhill.
There are always self-proclaimed “elitists” going on about how awesome they are and how terrible “casuals” were (which is BS, because 80% of players are in-between the extremes anyway), and they make the debate toxic by saying stuff like, oh I dunno, every post certain self-proclaimed elitists people have made in this thread, or calling people “tards” like another self-proclaimed elitist did earlier in this thread.
Then two years later when the game has zero players, the self-proclaimed elitists just blame the game company for failing to cater to them enough. If only it had been even harder, even more exclusionary, if only you could have made content for an even smaller group of people, then you definitely would not have lost the playerbase seems to be the argument, as perverse as that is.
I doubt zerker speedrunners will join an “lfm p2” kind of dungeon run and QQ about people not hurrying up. I do it sometimes myself and I don’t tell everyone to get moving, the only time I say anything is if they’re just playing terrible and/or wiping.
On the other hand, making a group saying “lf experienced zerkers” and getting bads who sometimes aren’t even in zerker gear happens far more often.
Agree. I’m the first one to prefer playing “the middle way”.
Manly, cuz i found speedrunning min/maxed DPS team dungeoneering boring.
But doesn’t mean i want to play with condition guardians, bearbow rangers, GS camping mesmers or PTV/Cleric shout healers warriors.
That’s just wasting time.
-snip-
No one asks for exclusion tools to be implemented into the LFG. What people want is some help in finding like-minded dungeon runners and avoiding those with different approaches. It hurts no one, benefits everyone.
Several people, including Colesy and Harper specifically asked for exclusion tools, so you are incorrect.
What help is it that you want if you don’t want exclusion tools?
So if i make a group – and 3 people who don’t fit my criteria join, I’m supposed to leave now?
Why do we even have to have this situation in the first place?
Because you are unable to politely ask them to leave, and don’t have enough friends, apparently!
I mean, if it’s the other way around, what am I supposed to do – say I start a group for Path X of Dungeon Y, and say in the description that it is not a speedrun and I want to view the cinematics and so on, and I get three full Zerker speedrun types who yell GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO the whole time and cry rivers about me not skipping the cinematics (and or manage to cause problems because of that), what am I supposed to do?
All you can do, if you don’t have the majority, is ask politely. That’s life. Usually it works, if you are actually polite.
He doesn’t have to ask them to leave at all.That is why the vote to kick system is in place
I was so excited when this tool arrived. I thought I no longer have to alt tab to check gw2lfg.
But to my disappointment, every group I make or get into fills with very low levels and inappropriate classes, even if my descriptions clearly says 80’s only with experience.
I am 100% for exclusion tools. These individuals who either troll or unknowingly try to get in over their heads are wasting both their time and mine.
Since there are no methods of exclusion, I am left with the only choice to leave the party or vote kick. For adequate party formation, I now have to spend an extra 20-60 minutes of my time dropping over and over again as these low levels (who ignore the requirement messages) continue to flood in. For some reason, this was not as serious of a problem using the old gw2lfg site.
I want to be able to see the level/class of the request and then be able to deny it.
I want to be able to kick people from a group I started.
If this is a problem for anyone then the only thing I have to say to that is grow up. Higher tier games and serious players exclude the less serious because it interferes with good game play. If you want the right to troll, and are granted that right by Anet, I will no longer support this game because I seek a better experience.
To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.
And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.
In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.
The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.
It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.
Is me leaving near the end griefing? No – it’s me being fed up.And another thing – i’ve stated before but people don’t seem to get it – looking at you Lonesamurai.
AP means TIME SPENT IN GAME. it does not equal skill BUT it means you obviously care enough about the game to have farmed that AP.
That means there are higher chances that you’ll care enough about your time to bring a better build, to have learned when to dodge and to know the encounters.
It’s not perfect but it works.
I know that you know that leaving when you’re the one that started the dungeon boots everyone. You make sure that you’re the instance owner specifically so you can do this. That’s why waited to to it at the last boss it brought you that satisfaction (if you were rage quitting you wouldn’t be satisfied). You’re griefing. If some one recorded you it would probably get you banned… especially now that you’ve posted this in the forums.
I was so excited when this tool arrived. I thought I no longer have to alt tab to check gw2lfg.
But to my disappointment, every group I make or get into fills with very low levels and inappropriate classes, even if my descriptions clearly says 80’s only with experience.
I am 100% for exclusion tools. These individuals who either troll or unknowingly try to get in over their heads are wasting both their time and mine.
Since there are no methods of exclusion, I am left with the only choice to leave the party or vote kick. For adequate party formation, I now have to spend an extra 20-60 minutes of my time dropping over and over again as these low levels (who ignore the requirement messages) continue to flood in. For some reason, this was not as serious of a problem using the old gw2lfg site.
I want to be able to see the level/class of the request and then be able to deny it.
I want to be able to kick people from a group I started.
If this is a problem for anyone then the only thing I have to say to that is grow up. Higher tier games and serious players exclude the less serious because it interferes with good game play. If you want the right to troll, and are granted that right by Anet, I will no longer support this game because I seek a better experience.
You can report those players if they continue to join your group after you boot them (it’s harassment according to the dev preview of the LFG tools)… but how this is now is just going to make both sides resent the other even more.
@ the anti-filter people… what if we were only able to filter things a little bit would the casuals be ok with that? Say for example requiring at least rare gear (since dungeons are scaled for rare armor)?
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
The most important thing that so many people are still unable to understand, is that the lfg tool is not supposed to help you filter groups or people. At all.
It simply flags you as available for a specific dungeon run, and you still have to do the work of filtering yourself (through the description message and whispering). Then, when you are sure the group is what you need, you can instantly join it.
That means that regular players can instantly find a group, which is a good thing. It also means that elitists can use their elite filtering skills to get organized with each other.
Why is it so hard to understand?
The most important thing that so many people are still unable to understand, is that the lfg tool is not supposed to help you filter groups or people. At all.
It simply flags you as available for a specific dungeon run, and you still have to do the work of filtering yourself (through the description message and whispering). Then, when you are sure the group is what you need, you can instantly join it.
That means that regular players can instantly find a group, which is a good thing. It also means that elitists can use their elite filtering skills to get organized with each other.
Why is it so hard to understand?
Even if it’s currently not supposed to filter people there is a need for it. Heck right now you can’t even filter by what PATH of a dungeon you want to go and do… and people don’t read. I’ve never seen a dev post or heard one saying that filters would be a bad thing btw… or that it would be a good thing… that’s why it’s up for debate.
Keep in mind that it’s a beta. That means it’s not a finished product. This is a feature that many would like to see. I’m all for finding things that would make both sides happy, but just a flat “no, none what so ever” isn’t going to help either side with the problems that have arisen.
There is no in-game need for a filter. Literally all of the things elitists ask for would work in a highly imperfect fashion and would have undesirable effects on the community.
It’s not a filter. It’s a tool that heps you find other people. It doesn’t replace the need for communication, and it really shouldn’t.
If you treat it as a filter, you certainly will be disappointed. Just as you would be if you wanted the game to have a trinity, subscription model and other things it’s not designed to have.
There is no in-game need for a filter. Literally all of the things elitists ask for would work in a highly imperfect fashion and would have undesirable effects on the community.
It’s not a filter. It’s a tool that heps you find other people. It doesn’t replace the need for communication, and it really shouldn’t.
If you treat it as a filter, you certainly will be disappointed. Just as you would be if you wanted the game to have a trinity, subscription model and other things it’s not designed to have.
I’ve already given reasons why it’s needed and would be a good thing for both of the communities… and haven’t read anyone give reasons why I was wrong (I could have missed some posts though).
As far as the need for communication… if people were willing to read 2-4 words before joining we wouldn’t have this need. However the majority don’t. Since people aren’t willing to communicate (read) these things are needed.
Again I havn’t seen any dev chime in on what exactly they want to be allowed and not allowed… so your view of what this beta tool should be used for isn’t necessarily what it will be when it’s finished. It’s a beta… it’s for them to figure out problems and ways to improve. That’s what we’re trying to help them do with our feedback.
Just essentially saying “No. This is what I think this tool is for.” again isn’t helping the conversation be constructive.
To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.
And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.
In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.
The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.
It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.
Is me leaving near the end griefing? No – it’s me being fed up.And another thing – i’ve stated before but people don’t seem to get it – looking at you Lonesamurai.
AP means TIME SPENT IN GAME. it does not equal skill BUT it means you obviously care enough about the game to have farmed that AP.
That means there are higher chances that you’ll care enough about your time to bring a better build, to have learned when to dodge and to know the encounters.
It’s not perfect but it works.I know that you know that leaving when you’re the one that started the dungeon boots everyone. You make sure that you’re the instance owner specifically so you can do this. That’s why waited to to it at the last boss it brought you that satisfaction (if you were rage quitting you wouldn’t be satisfied). You’re griefing. If some one recorded you it would probably get you banned… especially now that you’ve posted this in the forums.
I was so excited when this tool arrived. I thought I no longer have to alt tab to check gw2lfg.
But to my disappointment, every group I make or get into fills with very low levels and inappropriate classes, even if my descriptions clearly says 80’s only with experience.
I am 100% for exclusion tools. These individuals who either troll or unknowingly try to get in over their heads are wasting both their time and mine.
Since there are no methods of exclusion, I am left with the only choice to leave the party or vote kick. For adequate party formation, I now have to spend an extra 20-60 minutes of my time dropping over and over again as these low levels (who ignore the requirement messages) continue to flood in. For some reason, this was not as serious of a problem using the old gw2lfg site.
I want to be able to see the level/class of the request and then be able to deny it.
I want to be able to kick people from a group I started.
If this is a problem for anyone then the only thing I have to say to that is grow up. Higher tier games and serious players exclude the less serious because it interferes with good game play. If you want the right to troll, and are granted that right by Anet, I will no longer support this game because I seek a better experience.
You can report those players if they continue to join your group after you boot them (it’s harassment according to the dev preview of the LFG tools)… but how this is now is just going to make both sides resent the other even more.
@ the anti-filter people… what if we were only able to filter things a little bit would the casuals be ok with that? Say for example requiring at least rare gear (since dungeons are scaled for rare armor)?
I lied.
It’s a great tool. Though it is rather annoying that I have had parties with 3 rangers for higher level fractals or that I get people that have a level 36 character that want to join for level 38 daily.
I haven’t had any problems with the LFG tool so far. There were a couple of times where me (and I play a Necro) were placed in groups of only Warriors and Guardians, but again, we never had any problems and all runs went smooth. Great experiences with it so far!
I do wish that you could merge parties if you have a listing on the tool, however. Earlier today, I was in a party of 3 for a HotW p2, and I saw an ad for HotW p2 that needed 3 more players. I needed to delete our ad to merge my party with theirs. Not a big deal, but would have been more convenient to just merge the two since the numbers worked without having to remove my advertisement.
I don’t think a gear check feature needs to be added. Players can just as easily ask everyone to ping their gear (as mentioned before, Anet needs to add an easier way to ping gear rather than doing each piece individually) before starting the run and kick anyone who isn’t qualified.
(edited by Mimir.4690)
There is no in-game need for a filter. Literally all of the things elitists ask for would work in a highly imperfect fashion and would have undesirable effects on the community.
It’s not a filter. It’s a tool that heps you find other people. It doesn’t replace the need for communication, and it really shouldn’t.
If you treat it as a filter, you certainly will be disappointed. Just as you would be if you wanted the game to have a trinity, subscription model and other things it’s not designed to have.
I’ve already given reasons why it’s needed and would be a good thing for both of the communities… and haven’t read anyone give reasons why I was wrong (I could have missed some posts though).
As far as the need for communication… if people were willing to read 2-4 words before joining we wouldn’t have this need. However the majority don’t. Since people aren’t willing to communicate (read) these things are needed.
Again I havn’t seen any dev chime in on what exactly they want to be allowed and not allowed… so your view of what this beta tool should be used for isn’t necessarily what it will be when it’s finished. It’s a beta… it’s for them to figure out problems and ways to improve. That’s what we’re trying to help them do with our feedback.
Just essentially saying “No. This is what I think this tool is for.” again isn’t helping the conversation be constructive.
There is no need to penalize the entire playerbase just because some people are unwilling to read your description. The result would be much worse.
My posts are based on my interpretation of the video devs posted. Maybe I’m reading too much between the lines, but that’s the impression I got from listening to them, so that’s where my view is coming from.
I lied.
You shouldn’t do that, it’s dangerous. Some times this happens when you do.
I lied.
You shouldn’t do that, it’s dangerous. Some times this happens when you do.
Got carried away – a lot of people i feel have been trolling me in this thread. Reading back it IS the only way I can explain how some people can type in the things that they’ve chosen to support.
There is no in-game need for a filter. Literally all of the things elitists ask for would work in a highly imperfect fashion and would have undesirable effects on the community.
It’s not a filter. It’s a tool that heps you find other people. It doesn’t replace the need for communication, and it really shouldn’t.
If you treat it as a filter, you certainly will be disappointed. Just as you would be if you wanted the game to have a trinity, subscription model and other things it’s not designed to have.
I’ve already given reasons why it’s needed and would be a good thing for both of the communities… and haven’t read anyone give reasons why I was wrong (I could have missed some posts though).
As far as the need for communication… if people were willing to read 2-4 words before joining we wouldn’t have this need. However the majority don’t. Since people aren’t willing to communicate (read) these things are needed.
Again I havn’t seen any dev chime in on what exactly they want to be allowed and not allowed… so your view of what this beta tool should be used for isn’t necessarily what it will be when it’s finished. It’s a beta… it’s for them to figure out problems and ways to improve. That’s what we’re trying to help them do with our feedback.
Just essentially saying “No. This is what I think this tool is for.” again isn’t helping the conversation be constructive.
There is no need to penalize the entire playerbase just because some people are unwilling to read your description. The result would be much worse.
My posts are based on my interpretation of the video devs posted. Maybe I’m reading too much between the lines, but that’s the impression I got from listening to them, so that’s where my view is coming from.
From personal experience and what I’ve heard from others, it’s not just “some” it’s the vast majority of players that don’t read because they fill up so quickly and/or they can’t be bothered. That is a very small sample size though.
The ones that are currently penalized are the ones that want faster runs. If they added in more filters… it would help like minded players find each other. That’s a good thing. I don’t see how adding in filters as penalizing anyone other than the people who aren’t ready to do speed runs, aren’t wanted in those groups, but want to crash the party anyways.
Generally if it’s not said I don’t try to interpret what the devs intend. I am in no way a mind reader and things can be easily misinterpreted. The only time I do is when it possible that it could be considered an exploit… then I stay away from whatever that is.
I lied.
You shouldn’t do that, it’s dangerous. Some times this happens when you do.
Got carried away – a lot of people i feel have been trolling me in this thread. Reading back it IS the only way I can explain how some people can type in the things that they’ve chosen to support.
Trolling is only successful if they actually get a rise out of you. Goodluck to anyone trying to rustle my jimmies lol
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
Generally if it’s not said I don’t try to interpret what the devs intend. I am in no way a mind reader and things can be easily misinterpreted. The only time I do is when it possible that it could be considered an exploit… then I stay away from whatever that is.
They were pretty obvious regarding where their priorities lie.
Generally if it’s not said I don’t try to interpret what the devs intend. I am in no way a mind reader and things can be easily misinterpreted. The only time I do is when it possible that it could be considered an exploit… then I stay away from whatever that is.
They were pretty obvious regarding where their priorities lie.
Say you’re right and that is their first priority, that doesn’t mean that other things couldn’t be done to improve it for everyone. Since it’s a beta I’m sure they want to know about how we would like to see it changed/improved. It’s not as if the two things are in any way mutually exclusive.
(edited by Aberrant.6749)
I never see any lvl80 joining when I say lvl35 thief LFM.
So I take all the people anti elitist are hypocrite, dont’ even do dungeon or want to get carry.
Fill free to join low level group with half of the people never done a dungeon before, a few of them will leave if you wipe a few times, not to mention they probably don’t even know where the dungeon entrance is so you need to wait 10 minutes just so they can get there.
Because blatanly even the low level people dont’ want to group with low level people. So if you start a low level group, only people never done a dungeon before will join and quit midway through.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
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