My concerns about GW2

My concerns about GW2

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Posted by: Psichologas.1063

Psichologas.1063

Anet is doing a great job but:
1. Warriors and guardians are most OP classes now, they are best in PVE, PVP, WvW and dungeons, other classes fall against them in every aspect, from damage to sustain.

2. There will be no expansions in near future, which results no new classes, new weapon types or races, they will just keep patching contents like personal story, new map contents and events as well as gem store items – how long will it take for players to quit cuz they are bored without major new contents mentioned above?
(Yes I am a guy, thirsty for new weapon types, classes and contents and I am willing to pay for them, so I would really like Anet to make some of it).

3. At the moment you can buy gold in unofficial websites and trade it to gems which result in 2-3x more gems then buy from Anet for same price, so Anet lose money.
(Anet should do something about it, as it should be illegal as it is in most other games, but it’s not for me to decide though).

4. Game is trying to be unique, that is nice, but making all classes to fit all roles, without one being tank other healer and dps just result in one class being best at everything as warrior and guardian are now.
(Basically guy with best gear lives, guardians and warriors can tank, but most AOE dps classes die in that melee range from AOE or focus from veteran and stronger monsters, damage of warrior is as well higher than elementalis or engineer, still keeping warrior much tankier than those, I may be wrong though, still balance please?)

5. Crafting in GW2 is just for leveling, crafted items are by far less valuable than crafting materials, while resources are unlimited and each player can gather from same stone at least once and while you can get from level 1 to 40-57 with crafting only, crafting will stay just a way to level up without any meaning in economy and no reason to level besides exp. (Yes I do understand it was made to be like that by Anet, so it is fine I guess).

To sum it up: Yes this game is b2p=almost like f2p, so I would normally have no right to demant for any of this stuff, but I am sure Anet wouldn’t mind to make some if players would pay for expansions and other of these contents (and I asure you that a lot of them wouldn’t mind paying as long as game is worth it), main concern is that Anet earn from gemstore enough, as for example my gear at lvl 30 look same as lvl 1, which forces me to ignore my looks in game (which I don’t like) or making me pay for skins from gemstore or buy transmutation charges. Game is nice and Anet is good company, still would really like to support them while getting even better game to play. It’s all just my opinion and I am not forcing it on you guys, I would love to hear your opinions though.

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

Regarding point 3 (gold sellers). If you read the EULA it already is against the rules and Anet can and do ban people for selling gold (as well as associated activities like botting and stealing accounts to get that gold).

If you know of a game that has a 100% success rate at preventing gold sellers please do say what it is. I’m sure Anet (and most other MMO companies) would love to find out how they do it.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Psichologas.1063

Psichologas.1063

Well I do know that some companies sue some websites for sharing their products for free on torrents, basically I don’t know if by law Anet could sue gold selling sites to get rid of them, it’s really easy to find those sites, other way would be adding gold sending limit, as most gold sellers send gold by mail. Indeed there is no way to 100% stop gold selling but are a lot of effective tools to reduce it.

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Posted by: VergilDeZaniah.3295

VergilDeZaniah.3295

Anet is doing a great job but:
1. Warriors and guardians are most OP classes now, they are best in PVE, PVP, WvW and dungeons, other classes fall against them in every aspect, from damage to sustain.

Wrong. They can be taken out if you master your mesmer, your thief, your elementalist. It’s not a matter of broken profession, it’s a matter of skills.

2. There will be no expansions in near future, which results no new classes, new weapon types or races, they will just keep patching contents like personal story, new map contents and events as well as gem store items – how long will it take for players to quit cuz they are bored without major new contents mentioned above?
(Yes I am a guy, thirsty for new weapon types, classes and contents and I am willing to pay for them, so I would really like Anet to make some of it).

They never said they would not add such content, since they didn’t know at first if expansions would mean a new block of content or sporadic additions. Plus, from what was said, something is planned for the first semester of 2015, it’s only 6-9 months aways…

3. At the moment you can buy gold in unofficial websites and trade it to gems which result in 2-3x more gems then buy from Anet for same price, so Anet lose money.
(Anet should do something about it, as it should be illegal as it is in most other games, but it’s not for me to decide though).

I agree with that point, I remember the time gems were sold at a “1 gem for 1 silver” rate…

4. Game is trying to be unique, that is nice, but making all classes to fit all roles, without one being tank other healer and dps just result in one class being best at everything as warrior and guardian are now.
(Basically guy with best gear lives, guardians and warriors can tank, but most AOE dps classes die in that melee range from AOE or focus from veteran and stronger monsters, damage of warrior is as well higher than elementalis or engineer, still keeping warrior much tankier than those, I may be wrong though, still balance please?)

Even though I liked their idea to remove the holy trinity, I agree that their “each profession has every role” policy isn’t quite satisfying: you have to sacrifice some aspects to allow survival. After all, the game is supposed to be social, while many players are selfish and run the maps alone.

5. Crafting in GW2 is just for leveling, crafted items are by far less valuable than crafting materials, while resources are unlimited and each player can gather from same stone at least once and while you can get from level 1 to 40-57 with crafting only, crafting will stay just a way to level up without any meaning in economy and no reason to level besides exp. (Yes I do understand it was made to be like that by Anet, so it is fine I guess).

Crafting is also useful for alts, as you can easily craft armor from what you have gathered. Also, once your characters are full geared, you can craft armors/insignas and get some gold by selling them.

To sum it up: Yes this game is b2p=almost like f2p, so I would normally have no right to demant for any of this stuff, but I am sure Anet wouldn’t mind to make some if players would pay for expansions and other of these contents (and I asure you that a lot of them wouldn’t mind paying as long as game is worth it), main concern is that Anet earn from gemstore enough, as for example my gear at lvl 30 look same as lvl 1, which forces me to ignore my looks in game (which I don’t like) or making me pay for skins from gemstore or buy transmutation charges. Game is nice and Anet is good company, still would really like to support them while getting even better game to play. It’s all just my opinion and I am not forcing it on you guys, I would love to hear your opinions though.

I agree that some things need to be changed in order to get full support. Ok we get plenty of armors in the gem store, but most of them clip with other armors. Also, characters are not that unique since most of them have the same armor (nothing indicate a light armor is worn by an ele, a necro, or a mesmer). In GW1 I liked and hated the fact armor were profession tied, yet the lack of diversity in GW2 makes me somehow regret we don’t have more specific armor.

Anyway, as you said, GW2 is mostly free: you only buy the game and voilà, you have access to everything, including gem store content, without spending a penny. The game is not bad per se, but some improvement would make the gaming experience much better, and I assume that LS2 will put ANet back on the right track.

Guild leader of The Nephilim of Elysium.

Son of Elonia.

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Posted by: Morbridae.8607

Morbridae.8607

Anet is doing a great job but:
1. Warriors and guardians are most OP classes now, they are best in PVE, PVP, WvW and dungeons, other classes fall against them in every aspect, from damage to sustain.

Wrong. They can be taken out if you master your mesmer, your thief, your elementalist. It’s not a matter of broken profession, it’s a matter of skills.

The OP isn’t saying that those classes are invincible: he just said that they are overpowered. That probably means that they need a lot less player-skills to achieve what other classes can achieve with more effort. That if you play those classes, you will be consistently doing more damage to mobs, soaking more damage done to you, etc.

And I agree with that, btw.

Morbridae (Norn Necromancer)
@ Sorrow’s Furnace (VE)

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Posted by: Dusty Moon.4382

Dusty Moon.4382

Anet is doing a great job but:
1. Warriors and guardians are most OP classes now, they are best in PVE, PVP, WvW and dungeons, other classes fall against them in every aspect, from damage to sustain.

Wrong. They can be taken out if you master your mesmer, your thief, your elementalist. It’s not a matter of broken profession, it’s a matter of skills.

The OP isn’t saying that those classes are invincible: he just said that they are overpowered. That probably means that they need a lot less player-skills to achieve what other classes can achieve with more effort. That if you play those classes, you will be consistently doing more damage to mobs, soaking more damage done to you, etc.

And I agree with that, btw.

I will be blunt in my response because I have seen this in many other MMO’s. Players want the developer to nerf a profession because they are ‘assumed’ OP. Most times they are not. Rift had this issue with the Saboteur profession at the beginning and Trion listened to the whiney players and nerfed that profession into oblivion. It was unplayable and it was originally a glass cannon but people wanted a nerf rather than learn how to play against it.

Same thing in this game. You can drop both like a hot potato, but YOU have to know your own profession well. This is something that people are not talking about. You can have an OP profession but if you know how to play against it, you can take it down. Neither are OP but they need to be in melee range for spike damage – CC them and condi them into oblivion.

(edited by Dusty Moon.4382)

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

1) Completely wrong. 100%. Warrior = OP is a year old thinking that is been proven so wrong. Warrior and Guardian only have average damage compare to thief, elementalist, etc. Like every other profession except elementalist, there is no reason to bring more than 1 of each profession in a dungeon. Each provide something specific.
- Ele is the best DPS, stack might and fury or vulnerability
- Thief bring stealth, vulnerability, blind
- Ranger bring spotter, frost spirit and fury
- Warrior bring might, banner and EA
- Guardian bring blind, aegis, reflect and protection
- Mesmer bring utilities and reflect
- Engineer can bring utilities and vulnerability
- Necro bring nothing that someone else can bring better. Sorry necro

PUGS like warrior and guardian simply because they are easier to survive with it. And also a lot of false idea. Like kick someone only because they are ranger. Its make no sense since a ranger can be better than most other profession if build right. But what do you want pugs and pugs.

2) Your right. No arguing that. I like the 2 weeks update, but having a expansion would be nice.

3) Anet don’t accept that. But there is a difference between not accepting that or spending a lot of money in law suit and other legal mean to stop everything. You do what you can with what you have. Banning ppl that use these services (when they can figure it out) is a better tools. At least that seem to be Anet view.

4) You are wrong. Warrior have about the same dmg than an engineer, but not as an elementalist or a thief. There is balance if you know how to build a profession and play it. Sure the average pug will have more dps on a warrior than anything else. But that’s because its easy to do that on a warrior and that’s why Warrior was view as the GOD PROFESSION when the game started and nobody knew what the kitten there were doing. Could the game have more balance? Ya of course. Support Gear, condition, Necro in PvE, more than 1 good build on ranger, etc But there is still a lot of diversity and balance between each profession.

5) True. Leveling, legendary gift, Ascended gear, some food and some dungeon recipe. That’s pretty much all crafting does and its a shame. For me crafting should bring something more. Thing like useful item that don’t necessary make you stronger, but QoL or fun stuff. Thing like a parachute, transformation potion, balloons, firework, etc. Things that are not necessary to have, but thing that are nice and that ppl would want and that come from nowhere else. Also, crafting should be more balanced compare to other way to get equipment like armor and weapons. You want 1 or 2 set of armor? Better use dungeon token or buy it from the TP. Want to gear all you toons? Then crafting should be the way to go. High initial investment, but crafting stuff itself should be less costly than buying it. So there is a reason to craft or to not craft depending on what you want.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: Mishee.5719

Mishee.5719

I wouldn’t be all that concerned about the game outcome. Because we are talking about a game which devs are daring enough to actually break free from the mainstream MMO’s and do something els (els, not better/worse..just something els). Sure, we can question the decisions they make because sometimes it get wrong. But pointing out the mistakes with no actually good feedback wont make the game go into the right direction (Etc, that “warriors” and “guardiands” are the most op-classes, that the game wont release weapons and such because of the no expansion philosofy and the goldseller problem.).

So instead of complaing about that the non-existing holy trinity and the rest which you are actually doing in this thread. What about see things as they are and think around the problems and solve them instead of just standing infront of the complaing like the majority do.

So…here are some quick solutions…

1: Yes, they have some balancing issues to deal with. But guardians and warrior are not the most powerful classes in the game. They have major issues just like the rest when it comes to certain areas. Warriors can’t handle all that much cc and the guardian can’t remove conditions faster than the theif and necro lays on them…etc.

2. Don’t go around and asume abunch of stuff…thats problem is on your end not anets. This problem can be fixed with getting Anet to talk more often with us and letting us know that is coming in the upcoming six months and so on. So we can interact with the people creating our game.

3. Yes, this is a major problem for all of the mmogenre. No one had solved it yet because its a kittene to krack. But in Anet we should trust…I hope XD.

4. Have you seen the newest superman movie? The problem there is that they were born to do one thing and one thing only. They had one purpose in life…which for me seems to suck. I want my stereotypical murica freedom (swedish btw). Thats why I like this system .Yes it got some flaws, but the holy trinity also go flaws. There is some major tweaking with this one, but I think it will end up good after awhile.

5. Yeah, your right on this one. But what about if we do like wow. If you get to lvl 500 in weaponsmith there should be a weapon which you can only weild if you have lvl500 in weaponsmith. And special armors for lvl 500 armorsmithing and so on.

There is always a solution to problems.

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Posted by: Draknar.5748

Draknar.5748

OP I’m sorry but you have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to DPS. You have clearly not played with good eles, thieves, or mesmers; they can out DPS Guards and Warriors in damage and sustain handily.

You only think warrior and guards are the best because those are the easiest classes to get decent DPS with and that’s typically what bandwagon players are playing. There’s little you have to do in order to have decent DPS on those classes (warrior specifically). But for the other classes, if spec’d, geared, and played properly, completely blow them out of the water in terms of DPS.

I won’t stop because I can’t stop.

It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….

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Posted by: Dusty Moon.4382

Dusty Moon.4382

OP I’m sorry but you have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to DPS. You have clearly not played with good eles, thieves, or mesmers; they can out DPS Guards and Warriors in damage and sustain handily.

You only think warrior and guards are the best because those are the easiest classes to get decent DPS with and that’s typically what bandwagon players are playing. There’s little you have to do in order to have decent DPS on those classes (warrior specifically). But for the other classes, if spec’d, geared, and played properly, completely blow them out of the water in terms of DPS.

It is hard to play a Warrior and Guardian well but they are easy to play – button mashing. That is the issue – there are tons of them as well as ele’s and necro’s (again both professions are hard to play well but people do play them, just not well).

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Posted by: ExTribble.7108

ExTribble.7108

1&4) “Q.Q WARRIORS OP! WAAAAH!” Others have already said why this is flat out wrong. Learn about classes (and maybe play them gasp) before complaining.

2) Making connections that don’t exist. No expansions (soon, never stated that there’d never be expansions) doesn’t equate to no new classes/weapons.

3) They get banned when caught. Litigation costs way too much money to be feasible to take down the sites.

5) Crafting is an easy way to skip the early levels when leveling an alt. I like being able to skip the trait-less first 30 levels by spending some coin on crafting. Your suggestion would anger more people than it’d appease.

I do agree that some more early level skin variety is needed, but that’s likely not a high priority. People spend much more time playing at max level than they do leveling.

“Any lump can hack bad guys to death, but it takes skill
and style to turn them into craters and dust.” -Tonn
Number-crunching for ecto salvages – periodically updated

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Posted by: Noxicon.4956

Noxicon.4956

I stopped reading after you said Warriors had the highest damage in the game. Making that statement, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Ele’s vs War in an ideal environment and an ele out damages the war by about 7k per second. That’s significant.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

b2p=almost like f2p

The game was supposed to be B2P not F2P while at this moment it’s more like a F2P game. So you may very well ask for expansion (B2P) over cash-shop items (F2P stuff).

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Posted by: Galen Grey.4709

Galen Grey.4709

1. It is always tricky to say what is OP and what is not but one thing I think happens is there is this prevailant believe that GW2 is all about DPS and nothing else. If you try to out DPS a warrior with a necro you’re most certainly going to fail and the warrior will feel OP. Thing is all classes can do a lot but they all have their own strength and weaknesses. If i am facing a warrior with my necro I will try to disrupt him as much as possible while putting in conditions on him for example.

2. no expansion doesnt mean no new classes or no new weapons. They can do that as well and they said it already that expansion or not there will be new weapons and new classes with an emphasis that new weapons would probably come first.

3. gold trading outside of what anet provides is already against the terms and if caught you’ll get banned.

4. mirrors what i said about 1. its not just about DPS, though people seem to ignore there is also the control and support aspect of a class as well. An elementalist and a mesmer can boost the whole party damage by 80% while also disrupting the enemy and removing conditions from allies as well as DPS a bit. that means you get more overall damage then having 5 straight up warriors while also mitigating a good amount of damage recieved by the party. It has its advantages.

5. I wouldnt say crafting is useless. Its a good way to gear up cheaply. A good way to trying to acquire a precursor or one of the rare named weapons. Its a good way to get consumables.

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Posted by: storiessave.3807

storiessave.3807

3. About the gold selling bit, they can’t feasibly sue every single gold selling site >.>. They’re often hosted in different countries, making it excessively expensive in legal fees just to shut down one site.

And then the next day, those gold sellers will have another site up. It would be a waste of ArenaNet’s money. This is the same stance every game that I’ve seen takes – why would you pay so much just to not make a difference?

5. Ascended gear says hi. Crafting is plenty useful for things other than just character levels. Some crafted stuff at 400+ sells for more than the mat cost, so it can be profitable. You just have to figure out what sells best. If you think it’s a waste of time, more power to you, but other than needing a few tweaks to Bolts of Damask, I think crafting’s fine.

Tarnished Coast

Catorii | Lustre Delacroix | Catorii Desmarais | Synalie

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Crafting is one of the backbones of the economy. Ascended crafting is responsible for the price inflation of some of the basic crafting materials. Silk scraps are as of today selling for over 2s. Before Ascended crafting, I used to vendor them because they were going for vendor price (7 copper) on the TP. Crafting in virtually every game becomes mostly about max level items, so this should not be a surprise. In those other games, the best items are not available through crafting — except for things like enchants and consumables which cannot be gotten any other way. What GW2 does differently is that some of the best items crafted cannot be sold.

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

1.- Won’t really comment mainly because while I do agree that in PvE balance needs to work, I don’t really see guardians and warriors THAT OP there (a well played elementalist blow them out of the water when it comes to DPS, for example), but I’ve never been really a minmax type of guy and don’t have enough experience in PvP and WvW to really have an informed opinion there.

2.- I’ll take a wait and see on that. I’m willing to stay for much longer as long as the updates are on the quality of the latest ones of season 1 (marionette, tequatl, LA attack and so on), and I’m hopeful because of the promise of them being permanent this time around. That said, I really hope something happen (either LS or expansion) that adds more races (tengu pls), maps and weapons.

3.- And what do you sugest them to do that they aren’t doing already?. Botting and selling gold isn’t exactly illegal… it’s against the game’s terms of service, which they can use to ban players (both that farm and that purchase gold), but it isn’t actually against the law in any country that I’m aware of. Mostly what they can do is to ban bots that farm gold to diminish the supply, ban players guilty of purchasing gold, to diminish the demand.

Now, what is against the law is to hack computers and use stolen credit card info to purchase game clients to bot, but other than giving the information to law enforcement (which I bet Anet already does) there’s not much they can do, specially considering that most of the people that do that are in countries where it’s difficult (and expensive) to prosecute in the first place.

4.- Partially agree. I’d like to see more specialized roles for different classes, specially a bigger role for support and healing builds in PvE.

5.- Sometime ago, I’d have agreed. Now, however, I don’t entirely agree there. Crafting 1-400 is, as you said it, mainly an alternate way to level. These days, however, there’s a whole tier of armor and weapons (ascended) that can mostly only be achieved by crafting. If you see someone wielding an ascended greatsword, for example, the only way to get it (other than extremely rare drops) is for that person to have leveled weaponsmith to 500, same with any ascended weapon or armor. There are also the packpieces (light of dwayna, chaos of lyssa and so on) that can only be crafted.

BTW, your gear looking the same at level 1 than level 30 isn’t that rare in MMOs. Most I’ve played you start getting the really good looking gear at high level in the first place, and heck, I remember in Age of Conan the gear you got at open world and trough crafting looking almost the same all the way to level cap (you could get some different ones in dungeons, but that was it).

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

1. It is always tricky to say what is OP and what is not but one thing I think happens is there is this prevailant believe that GW2 is all about DPS and nothing else. If you try to out DPS a warrior with a necro you’re most certainly going to fail and the warrior will feel OP. Thing is all classes can do a lot but they all have their own strength and weaknesses. If i am facing a warrior with my necro I will try to disrupt him as much as possible while putting in conditions on him for example.

2. no expansion doesnt mean no new classes or no new weapons. They can do that as well and they said it already that expansion or not there will be new weapons and new classes with an emphasis that new weapons would probably come first.

3. gold trading outside of what anet provides is already against the terms and if caught you’ll get banned.

4. mirrors what i said about 1. its not just about DPS, though people seem to ignore there is also the control and support aspect of a class as well. An elementalist and a mesmer can boost the whole party damage by 80% while also disrupting the enemy and removing conditions from allies as well as DPS a bit. that means you get more overall damage then having 5 straight up warriors while also mitigating a good amount of damage recieved by the party. It has its advantages.

5. I wouldnt say crafting is useless. Its a good way to gear up cheaply. A good way to trying to acquire a precursor or one of the rare named weapons. Its a good way to get consumables.

About the new classes and skills. There is an adage in Movie making that if nothing has happened In the first reel of a Movie… chances are nothing is gonna happen in the rest. if it was gonna happen, chances are either it would have happened by then, or the groundwork will have been laid for it by then.

people keep acting as if Gw2 were a new release. We cannot expect more from the devs, than what they have offered… game is going through growing pains…etc….

I think 2 years post-release is time to stop cutting the devs slack, and start asking.." why do you seem to lack a consistent direction?"

People are growing restless, new games are being released, some people are leaving for those new games, others are going back to old games… and… some of them don’t come back. The Longer the game seems to be stagnant….. as this game seems… the less likely people will hang around patiently for the game to outgrow it’s prolonged extended pay-to-Beta test phase.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: aldwid.7548

aldwid.7548

Warriors are really good all around. Can you explain why most dungeon soloing(exp Arah) runners are Warriors? And whereas Necros…. sigh…

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Posted by: cheshirefox.7026

cheshirefox.7026

I stopped reading after you said Warriors had the highest damage in the game. Making that statement, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Ele’s vs War in an ideal environment and an ele out damages the war by about 7k per second. That’s significant.

annndd the elementalist dies

i can outswim a centaur!
when i’m done on an issue
i start talking in nerglish

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Posted by: Galen Grey.4709

Galen Grey.4709

About the new classes and skills. There is an adage in Movie making that if nothing has happened In the first reel of a Movie… chances are nothing is gonna happen in the rest. if it was gonna happen, chances are either it would have happened by then, or the groundwork will have been laid for it by then.

people keep acting as if Gw2 were a new release. We cannot expect more from the devs, than what they have offered… game is going through growing pains…etc….

I think 2 years post-release is time to stop cutting the devs slack, and start asking.." why do you seem to lack a consistent direction?"

People are growing restless, new games are being released, some people are leaving for those new games, others are going back to old games… and… some of them don’t come back. The Longer the game seems to be stagnant….. as this game seems… the less likely people will hang around patiently for the game to outgrow it’s prolonged extended pay-to-Beta test phase.

That may be true in movie making but when has that been true in MMOs? I dont usually like to compare with other games but well no choice here. Take WoW for example. When did they add a new class to the game ? if you consider the death knight fitting the bill (they called it a hero class ) then over 4 years from release. If we go with the classic meaning of a class then not before 8 years from release. Did the fact WoW never introduced a class in its first 2 years end up meaning it never would? No! MMOs are continuously updated and new stuff is released all the time, its not just improvements of what was released in the first 2 years of that MMO.

as for the 2 years being more then enough time I respectfully disagree. Plenty of MMO take over 2 years to release major content updates (expansions) and thats without release new content every 2 weeks!

I am sorry but I dont subscribe to your definition of stagnant. Stagnant to me means never changes, always the same. Gw2 was far from that. It was one of the few MMOs that managed to keep me engaged when I got to max level. There was always something new to play around the corner how can that be considered stagnant! is it new classes that make a game fun or its content?

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

About the new classes and skills. There is an adage in Movie making that if nothing has happened In the first reel of a Movie… chances are nothing is gonna happen in the rest. if it was gonna happen, chances are either it would have happened by then, or the groundwork will have been laid for it by then.

people keep acting as if Gw2 were a new release. We cannot expect more from the devs, than what they have offered… game is going through growing pains…etc….

I think 2 years post-release is time to stop cutting the devs slack, and start asking.." why do you seem to lack a consistent direction?"

People are growing restless, new games are being released, some people are leaving for those new games, others are going back to old games… and… some of them don’t come back. The Longer the game seems to be stagnant….. as this game seems… the less likely people will hang around patiently for the game to outgrow it’s prolonged extended pay-to-Beta test phase.

That may be true in movie making but when has that been true in MMOs? I dont usually like to compare with other games but well no choice here. Take WoW for example. When did they add a new class to the game ? if you consider the death knight fitting the bill (they called it a hero class ) then over 4 years from release. If we go with the classic meaning of a class then not before 8 years from release. Did the fact WoW never introduced a class in its first 2 years end up meaning it never would? No! MMOs are continuously updated and new stuff is released all the time, its not just improvements of what was released in the first 2 years of that MMO.

as for the 2 years being more then enough time I respectfully disagree. Plenty of MMO take over 2 years to release major content updates (expansions) and thats without release new content every 2 weeks!

I am sorry but I dont subscribe to your definition of stagnant. Stagnant to me means never changes, always the same. Gw2 was far from that. It was one of the few MMOs that managed to keep me engaged when I got to max level. There was always something new to play around the corner how can that be considered stagnant! is it new classes that make a game fun or its content?

new content, and change is not what makes a game NOT stagnant. If the changes are not good…. if the content doesn’t engage….then it ca seem stagnant even if things change.

I have been playing since release. This game appears to be going through a Lot of whirly-gig motion, but that does Not mean it is healthy.

In my opinion, the game is monetizing more and more, nerfing open world Gold and component farming more and more, putting stuff On the gem store more and more.

Those changes in my opinion, are not good ones. Clean water, can change to poluted water, and yes, maybe it’s Not stagnant by defenition, but I still wouldn’t drink it.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: saye.9304

saye.9304

on #1 mesmer/ele/warrior/ guard/necro are fine the problem is with other classes particularly ranger imo, which makes war/guard stand out mostly and design flows which favor heavy armor, stacking in dungeon for example.
on #2 100% agree, gw2 need expansion and people will buy it. just like gw1 did.
on #3 could not agree more, when the game is more profitable we can force devs to work harder. this selling gold people and gold buyers must be eliminated from game, they are toxic to all not just anet.
on # 4 NOT AT ALL. there are large number of games from AAA to 3rd class asian mmos out there offering unholy trinity. 99% of them are unsuccessful and barely surviving. GW2 was successful because of semi-action combat.
on # 5 you got ascended crafting.which makes crafting part of end game. cant say same for many games.

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Posted by: Galen Grey.4709

Galen Grey.4709

new content, and change is not what makes a game NOT stagnant. If the changes are not good…. if the content doesn’t engage….then it ca seem stagnant even if things change.

I have been playing since release. This game appears to be going through a Lot of whirly-gig motion, but that does Not mean it is healthy.

In my opinion, the game is monetizing more and more, nerfing open world Gold and component farming more and more, putting stuff On the gem store more and more.

Those changes in my opinion, are not good ones. Clean water, can change to poluted water, and yes, maybe it’s Not stagnant by defenition, but I still wouldn’t drink it.

are you sure that nerfing open world gold is a monotization tactic? cause I think it was actually a good move to control inflation. Right now you have 2 classes of players so to speak, farmers and non-farmers. Farmers can make up to 15g per hour as claimed by some of them. None farmers are lucky if they make 50s per hour. The more one group makes the higher prices will go because that group can afford a lot more then the other. Not just that but the more time passes with a high rate of income the more tp prices are likely to go up. Lets take 1000g precursors for example. at 15g per hour it would take 66hrs for a farmer to make enough. if say they play 20hrs a week they can make that much in a month. 6 months down the line they’ll be sitting on 6000g+ so wouldnt you agree they’ll be willing to pay even higher prices then 1000g at that point? could precursors also sell at 2k, 3k, maybe even 6k? at the same time the non farmers would be sitting on what? 200g if the spend absolutely nothing and play the same amount of time!

who is likely to have to use their credit card to buy gems? the farmer who can afford a precursor a month? or player who needs years to afford precursor at prices only farmers can match? simply speaking nerfing farming actually makes the situation better not worst. if the nerf is bad enough that farmers will no longer afford to buy precursors, precursors will stop selling and their price will start to fall gradually.

Its important to keep in mind this is a player driven economy, prices are not fixed. making more money doesnt mean it will be easier to buy stuff, it means prices will go up and up and up. That has the added negativity that players who devote their whole game to making money will monopolize everything and those players who play to enjoy the game rather then making money will be cut out from a lot of rewards. (though it may sound like it I am not implying you cannot enjoy the game by focusing on making money, I am just merely making a distinction between those groups of players)

In short It is very important for the economy and the game in general that there is a balance between the most profitable content to the average content and nerfs that keep that balance are a good thing. If all arenanet wanted was to drive gem sales it would help them more boosting farming profits then nerfing them. the bigger the gap between farmers and non farmers the more non farmers have no choice but to use real money to make up for the difference.

as for the content itself, if you didnt enjoy than yes thats a problem. I personally like a lot of what they offered in S1, not everything but overall I Am pretty satisfied.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

new content, and change is not what makes a game NOT stagnant. If the changes are not good…. if the content doesn’t engage….then it ca seem stagnant even if things change.

I have been playing since release. This game appears to be going through a Lot of whirly-gig motion, but that does Not mean it is healthy.

In my opinion, the game is monetizing more and more, nerfing open world Gold and component farming more and more, putting stuff On the gem store more and more.

Those changes in my opinion, are not good ones. Clean water, can change to poluted water, and yes, maybe it’s Not stagnant by defenition, but I still wouldn’t drink it.

are you sure that nerfing open world gold is a monotization tactic? cause I think it was actually a good move to control inflation. Right now you have 2 classes of players so to speak, farmers and non-farmers. Farmers can make up to 15g per hour as claimed by some of them. None farmers are lucky if they make 50s per hour. The more one group makes the higher prices will go because that group can afford a lot more then the other. Not just that but the more time passes with a high rate of income the more tp prices are likely to go up. Lets take 1000g precursors for example. at 15g per hour it would take 66hrs for a farmer to make enough. if say they play 20hrs a week they can make that much in a month. 6 months down the line they’ll be sitting on 6000g+ so wouldnt you agree they’ll be willing to pay even higher prices then 1000g at that point? could precursors also sell at 2k, 3k, maybe even 6k? at the same time the non farmers would be sitting on what? 200g if the spend absolutely nothing and play the same amount of time!

who is likely to have to use their credit card to buy gems? the farmer who can afford a precursor a month? or player who needs years to afford precursor at prices only farmers can match? simply speaking nerfing farming actually makes the situation better not worst. if the nerf is bad enough that farmers will no longer afford to buy precursors, precursors will stop selling and their price will start to fall gradually.

Its important to keep in mind this is a player driven economy, prices are not fixed. making more money doesnt mean it will be easier to buy stuff, it means prices will go up and up and up. That has the added negativity that players who devote their whole game to making money will monopolize everything and those players who play to enjoy the game rather then making money will be cut out from a lot of rewards. (though it may sound like it I am not implying you cannot enjoy the game by focusing on making money, I am just merely making a distinction between those groups of players)

In short It is very important for the economy and the game in general that there is a balance between the most profitable content to the average content and nerfs that keep that balance are a good thing. If all arenanet wanted was to drive gem sales it would help them more boosting farming profits then nerfing them. the bigger the gap between farmers and non farmers the more non farmers have no choice but to use real money to make up for the difference.

as for the content itself, if you didnt enjoy than yes thats a problem. I personally like a lot of what they offered in S1, not everything but overall I Am pretty satisfied.

Personally I do not think the possibility to grind gold has been lowered for to benefit the cash-shop. While you could say they did it so the gold-grinders could not grind any-more so they themselves would be more likely to spend gold. However I do think that much of the inability to work directly for items and to farm mats directly is related to the cash-shop (why buy gold if you can get them buy playing for them). It makes gold more important and so people are more likely to buy gold and it works two ways because items in the cash-shop can only be obtained with gold (if we talk about ingame methods) what drives up the need for gold even more. While at the same time is devalues the item. What is so great about having a skin from a hard to kill boss if other people run around in even better looking gear they got with brainlessly grinding gold or with buying gold or the items? It totally devalues rewards. Same for the temporary nature of the LS. Luckily they seem to have realised finally that hat was a bad idea indeed.

So while I not think reducing the gold-grind options is done for the benefit of the cash-shop there are still many (negative) things done for the cash-shop and the cash-shop has it’s own negative side-effects.

(edited by Devata.6589)

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Warriors are really good all around. Can you explain why most dungeon soloing(exp Arah) runners are Warriors? And whereas Necros…. sigh…

Ya I can. I also saw guardian, mesmer, elementalist, thief and rangers solo arah, but your right that warrior make about 75% of all video on the net. Why?

- Warrior is a good solo profession. Its have good passive survivability, its easy to do good dmg with it and have all around utilities. That mean that warrior have skill for most situation and are easier to play. You don’t need to concentrate as much as other profession to make your dmg or survive, so you can concentrate more about the added difficulty that a solo run put on you.
- Warrior were view for about a year as the OP BEST PROFESSION EVER at the beginning of the game. Of course a lot of ppl will play them, and of course a lot of player will use them for difficult content. We start to see more and more of the other profession, but since most of the solo stuff were done a year ago and the videos are already on youtube, ppl that are doing the same thing now with other profession don’t necessarily put it on youtube, there is already a lot of video about solo run already.

The fact that you see a lot of solo run or even group run with a lot of warrior in it, doesn’t mean that Warrior are OP and do everything better than any other profession. Warrior are the best a offensive support and that’s how they are use now. But a year ago, most speed run used 3 or 4 warrior because back then we didn’t know how the game really work and a lot of ppl were sure that the other profession didn’t do as much or more dmg than the warrior. Right now its the Ele that have that position, maybe that its gonna be the Ranger in a year, who know.

For Necro, well. It have as much dmg as a warrior, but it don’t cleave at all and bring no utilities or support that another profession do better. So its at the bottom of the food chain for now.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: Drakent.9605

Drakent.9605

I stop reading when I saw the warrior and guardian being OP.

There is no OP class in GW2, there is only 2 classes and does are either a class that requires skill and a class that require very little skills

Warrior and guardian are the most popular class only b/c they require very little skill to play , they are so balance that there dps and survivability is all in 1 spot while other classes need to balance there dps with there survivability by them self. Pretty much warrior and guardian plays it self.

GW2 is the most balance MMO-RPG I have ever play. This is the first game that all classes can solo anything on this game as long ppl know what they are doing.

If you find your self having a hard time or think the class is weak I guarantee you the problem is not the class but your self

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Posted by: Sundar.1735

Sundar.1735

1. Warriors and Guardians have ALWAYS been the best all-round classes since when the game came out, at least in PvE. Classes like the Necro on the other hand have ALWAYS been underpowered. I don’t think this issue will ever be addressed because it would require a major rework of some professions and/or game mechanics in order to resolve this and that is something I don’t think Anet are going to do after the game has been out for so long. We will just have to live with it. This is similar to how mesmers were in GW1 PvE for about 5 years after the game came out before Anet decided to rework the entire profession so they could do more damage in PvE. That does leave me with a tiny glimmer of hope that they might someday realize how useless Necros are in PvE and buff them.

2. It’s too late now. Anet seem to have made up their minds. I like getting free content every few weeks and some of it has been really good but I would still rather have major expansions every year with more polished content that I would have to pay for. Having said that, they have made some improvements over the last 6 months or so. There were a couple of huge patches that brought significant quality of life improvements to the game. However I feel these patches should have come sooner and a lot of people (including myself) have lost interest in the game.

3. Buying gold from third parties is illegal and is likely to get you banned. Besides, gold is very easy to make in this game so it is not worth the risk at all.

4. I agree. The lack of secondary professions and well defined roles for every profession has made some professions inherently overpowered and others almost completely useless, at least in PvE. For example, Guardians have and will always be extremely useful because they are a very versatile profession with lots of AoE damage and support skills for the team whereas Necromancers will always be underpowered in PvE because they have very few skills that can help their teammates and condition damage will always be inferior to direct damage in PvE.

5. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t crafting the only way to get access to Ascended gear, apart from farming world bosses over and over hoping you get lucky? I would rather farm the gold and craft my own ascended items than rely on chance anyday.

I agree with you overall. I don’t know how much money they make from the gemstore and I don’t mind the free content but I think they should still release a major expansion every year or so for a fee which would introduce a lot more new content and game mechanics and more importantly, content of higher quality.

(edited by Sundar.1735)

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Posted by: Drakent.9605

Drakent.9605

1. Warriors and Guardians have ALWAYS been the best all-round classes since when the game came out, at least in PvE. Classes like the Necro on the other hand have ALWAYS been underpowered. I don’t think this issue will ever be addressed because it would require a major rework of some professions and/or game mechanics in order to resolve this and that is something I don’t think Anet are going to do after the game has been out for so long. We will just have to live with it. This is similar to how mesmers were in GW1 PvE for about 5 years after the game came out before Anet decided to rework the entire profession so they could do more damage in PvE. That does leave me with a tiny glimmer of hope that they might someday realize how useless Necros are in PvE and buff them.

LOL, So b/c you cant and don’t know how to play a necro is automatically useless. well that’s to bad for you but necro under a skill player like my self can run around in circle on a warrior.

Necro has the top AOE damage on this game even better then elemental, I can wipe a group of elite mobs under 6 sec with out losing no more then 10% of my HP. I have a record of killing 10 elites in 1 shoot, I like to see warrior do that.

Necro can easily keep 20 stack of vulnerable by him self on mobs, giving the group a 20% damage increase

Necro has the best condition control on the game and CC , if you do fract this 2 skill are extremely important

How can some 1 call this kind of skill on a class useless ?

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Posted by: SkiTz.4590

SkiTz.4590

1. Warriors and Guardians have ALWAYS been the best all-round classes since when the game came out, at least in PvE. Classes like the Necro on the other hand have ALWAYS been underpowered. I don’t think this issue will ever be addressed because it would require a major rework of some professions and/or game mechanics in order to resolve this and that is something I don’t think Anet are going to do after the game has been out for so long. We will just have to live with it. This is similar to how mesmers were in GW1 PvE for about 5 years after the game came out before Anet decided to rework the entire profession so they could do more damage in PvE. That does leave me with a tiny glimmer of hope that they might someday realize how useless Necros are in PvE and buff them.

LOL, So b/c you cant and don’t know how to play a necro is automatically useless. well that’s to bad for you but necro under a skill player like my self can run around in circle on a warrior.

Necro has the top AOE damage on this game even better then elemental, I can wipe a group of elite mobs under 6 sec with out losing no more then 10% of my HP. I have a record of killing 10 elites in 1 shoot, I like to see warrior do that.

Necro can easily keep 20 stack of vulnerable by him self on mobs, giving the group a 20% damage increase

Necro has the best condition control on the game and CC , if you do fract this 2 skill are extremely important

How can some 1 call this kind of skill on a class useless ?

build/video please

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

I will be blunt in my response because I have seen this in many other MMO’s. Players want the developer to nerf a profession because they are ‘assumed’ OP. Most times they are not. Rift had this issue with the Saboteur profession at the beginning and Trion listened to the whiney players and nerfed that profession into oblivion. It was unplayable and it was originally a glass cannon but people wanted a nerf rather than learn how to play against it.

Same thing in this game. You can drop both like a hot potato, but YOU have to know your own profession well. This is something that people are not talking about. You can have an OP profession but if you know how to play against it, you can take it down. Neither are OP but they need to be in melee range for spike damage – CC them and condi them into oblivion.

Just gonna leave this Extra Credits link here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for Skill

Are Warriors OP? Nope. But they are low skill / high reward as a class. And we need that in a game.
What we also need are high skill /higher reward classes. Classes that perform better but survive less. Those classes reward a skilled player, but not so much in a way that utterly dominates. (Well, usually. I tip my hat to the Engi that trucked me in WvW months ago.)

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

(edited by Rauderi.8706)

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Posted by: stobie.2134

stobie.2134

About gold selling, I don’t think any company has removed them fully, because they’re not based in the U.S. (but I’m sick of them, too, & if people are buying/selling as you say, they’re pond scum.)

About balance, the problem I have with your post is that it’s dps focused. (and I believe elementalists are the highest, & since their particles/noise drives me nuts, that’s not enough reason to stick with mine.)

About more/better gear – I so much hope not! This game is already far more gear-based than I imagined when I started. I’d rather see the continuing story, & more areas. I don’t think they need new classes, & I don’t really care about a new race, either. They have some great, underused classes now, like engineer/ranger/necromancer, which could use some buffing.

I’m not sure buffing dps more & more is the best plan – and nerfing never seems like a great strategy. I think the flaw in removing the trinity is that we’re left with just dps, if the support factors aren’t more significant, if the fights (I don’t do much pvp, so I’m not referring to that) are just – jam them in a corner & go for speed runs. That mentality is seriously dull & not compelling to me. The fact too many builds revolve around auto attack is a problem for me, too. If, say, the warrior’s best GS build involves camping, that’s flawed. And if there’s something duller than the Guardian’s hammer, I don’t want to know about it. Worse for me, the thief’s 2 & 3 dagger abilities, even situationally, aren’t as good as AA – and – WHY? (I use them because my Asura is cute doing them – I don’t think that counts as situational, however.)

But I’d hate to see them go for more dps, more of the time. That’s already a problem which has led to one set of gear (and it’s not cleric’s) and a limited ideal dungeon group. I also blame the meta builds drummed up by big guilds, and followed to the letter – people should be able to play the class that interests them, not have to go ‘warrior, and basically, warrior.’ (also, mage/warrior aren’t the most imaginative classes in this game, yet they seem to be the 2 strongest)

I would hope expansions involve more areas – very diverse areas. Maybe a new race (I haven’t heard of any I’d be eager to play, but people seem to want them.) But please, no level cap/gear increase. That grind & gear dependence killed other mmos for me, & I’d hate to see it here.

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Posted by: Randall.6850

Randall.6850

Guardians and Warriors have the highest survivability in dungeons simply because of the stupid design of the dungeons that basically forces fragile, ranged players into melee fights against waves of absurdly over-powered enemies.

Outside of this though, Guardians and Warriors aren’t that great. I long ago lost count of how many times my stupid-squishy Mesmer has been the last person standing in a sea of dead tanks or how many times I’ve watched entire groups of melee players die to a champ that I can easily solo on the same Mesmer.

In situations where ranged classes are forced to play at melee ranges there isn’t much you can do about it but when you can play your lightly-armored ranged class properly (and skillfully) you will outfight and outlive any Guardian or Warrior almost 100% of the time.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Guardians and Warriors have the highest survivability in dungeons simply because of the stupid design of the dungeons that basically forces fragile, ranged players into melee fights against waves of absurdly over-powered enemies.

Outside of this though, Guardians and Warriors aren’t that great. I long ago lost count of how many times my stupid-squishy Mesmer has been the last person standing in a sea of dead tanks or how many times I’ve watched entire groups of melee players die to a champ that I can easily solo on the same Mesmer.

In situations where ranged classes are forced to play at melee ranges there isn’t much you can do about it but when you can play your lightly-armored ranged class properly (and skillfully) you will outfight and outlive any Guardian or Warrior almost 100% of the time.

There are no ranged professions in GW2. There are ranged weapons, though.

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Posted by: Drakent.9605

Drakent.9605

Guardians and Warriors have the highest survivability in dungeons simply because of the stupid design of the dungeons that basically forces fragile, ranged players into melee fights against waves of absurdly over-powered enemies.

Outside of this though, Guardians and Warriors aren’t that great. I long ago lost count of how many times my stupid-squishy Mesmer has been the last person standing in a sea of dead tanks or how many times I’ve watched entire groups of melee players die to a champ that I can easily solo on the same Mesmer.

In situations where ranged classes are forced to play at melee ranges there isn’t much you can do about it but when you can play your lightly-armored ranged class properly (and skillfully) you will outfight and outlive any Guardian or Warrior almost 100% of the time.

There are no ranged professions in GW2. There are ranged weapons, though.

that is correct but if put the word range game play to his paragraph then what his saying is correct to the whole range vs melee

PPl actually thing that range on this game suck for damage but the problem isn’t that range suck but more of the game mechanic doesn’t work on favor for range class but it works favor to melee

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

I will be blunt in my response because I have seen this in many other MMO’s. Players want the developer to nerf a profession because they are ‘assumed’ OP. Most times they are not. Rift had this issue with the Saboteur profession at the beginning and Trion listened to the whiney players and nerfed that profession into oblivion. It was unplayable and it was originally a glass cannon but people wanted a nerf rather than learn how to play against it.

Same thing in this game. You can drop both like a hot potato, but YOU have to know your own profession well. This is something that people are not talking about. You can have an OP profession but if you know how to play against it, you can take it down. Neither are OP but they need to be in melee range for spike damage – CC them and condi them into oblivion.

Just gonna leave this Extra Credits link here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for Skill

Are Warriors OP? Nope. But they are low skill / high reward as a class. And we need that in a game.
What we also need are high skill /higher reward classes. Classes that perform better but survive less. Those classes reward a skilled player, but not so much in a way that utterly dominates. (Well, usually. I tip my hat to the Engi that trucked me in WvW months ago.)

I think Extra Credits should be mandatory viewing for gamers. Puts a Lot of info in perspective.

And yes… Balancing for skill may be hard. But it seems that a lot of players seem to be willing to excuse the devs for not doing hard things.

A lot of the time I hear." the devs said they wanted to put that in, and ya, would have been awesome fun for us..but they decided to leave it out… because it would be hard."

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Guardians and Warriors have the highest survivability in dungeons simply because of the stupid design of the dungeons that basically forces fragile, ranged players into melee fights against waves of absurdly over-powered enemies.

Outside of this though, Guardians and Warriors aren’t that great. I long ago lost count of how many times my stupid-squishy Mesmer has been the last person standing in a sea of dead tanks or how many times I’ve watched entire groups of melee players die to a champ that I can easily solo on the same Mesmer.

In situations where ranged classes are forced to play at melee ranges there isn’t much you can do about it but when you can play your lightly-armored ranged class properly (and skillfully) you will outfight and outlive any Guardian or Warrior almost 100% of the time.

There are no ranged professions in GW2. There are ranged weapons, though.

that is correct but if put the word range game play to his paragraph then what his saying is correct to the whole range vs melee

PPl actually thing that range on this game suck for damage but the problem isn’t that range suck but more of the game mechanic doesn’t work on favor for range class but it works favor to melee

Sorry, I cannot agree. Randall.6850 posted about “Fragile, ranged players” being forced into melee range. If a “fragile” player (whatever that is) chooses to enter melee range they can choose to be less fragile, or use active defense to mitigate damage. The game provides the tools to do so.

Yes, teamwork mechanics favor players clustering together. This usually happens in melee because of greater damage from melee weapons and because of melee cleave. However, ranged players could also cluster together to get the benefit of buffs, etc. That they don’t is more an indication of them choosing not to.

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Posted by: Galen Grey.4709

Galen Grey.4709

Personally I do not think the possibility to grind gold has been lowered for to benefit the cash-shop. While you could say they did it so the gold-grinders could not grind any-more so they themselves would be more likely to spend gold. However I do think that much of the inability to work directly for items and to farm mats directly is related to the cash-shop (why buy gold if you can get them buy playing for them). It makes gold more important and so people are more likely to buy gold and it works two ways because items in the cash-shop can only be obtained with gold (if we talk about ingame methods) what drives of the need for gold even more. While at the same time is devalues the item. What is so great about having a skin from a hard to kill boss if other people run around in even better looking gear they got with brainlessly grinding gold or with buying gold or the items? It totally devalues rewards. Same for the temporary nature of the LS. Luckily they seem to have realised finally that hat was a bad idea indeed.

So while I not think reducing the gold-grind options is done for the benefit of the cash-shop there are still many (negative) things done for the cash-shop and the cash-shop has it’s own negative side-effects.

even there though nerfing gold income actually helps. the exchange rate between gold and gems is also tied to people’s income directly. If I am a farmer making 15g per hour will I mind paying 10g for 100 gems? no! so I will end buying all the gems I need which will drive the price up even more. Using gw2spidy and sampling various points in time you can clearly see the exchange rate has varied between the period in time gold per hour flactuating between 30 mins – 1 hr worth of income. So even there reducing gold income will actually help by most likely lowering the conversion price as well in the long run. Because again lets face it for someone who used to make 15g per hour who might now make 10g per hour due to the nerf they’re not going to care much that now 100gems cost 1hr of their time instead of 45mins of their time, I doubt it will cause a single one of them to suddenly take out their credit card to make up for the difference. The same cannot be said for people who do not farm but just play the game the way they enjoy (which happens to not be farming) and make only about 50s per hour. For them buying 100 gems means 20 hours of game time and thats significant. They’re the ones who are more likely to use a credit card to bridge the gap. These nerfs will actually help there by hopefully making the gap smaller.

as for why play the game for the stuff you need when you can just buy it. That problem definitely exists but I am skeptical that most people address that by their wallet. I am sure some just hate farming and would rather use a credit card to get the gold they need but I have a feeling (cant really confirm this in anyway) that there are tons of farmers who simply farm the gold directly. Besides like I already argued the nerfs will also cause their prices to fall too which will severely limit the affect that will have on this argument.

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

Well I do know that some companies sue some websites for sharing their products for free on torrents, basically I don’t know if by law Anet could sue gold selling sites to get rid of them, it’s really easy to find those sites, other way would be adding gold sending limit, as most gold sellers send gold by mail. Indeed there is no way to 100% stop gold selling but are a lot of effective tools to reduce it.

They can try to sue those company but I guarantee you it will fail. Sharing products for free on torrents is a violation of copyright laws, which are penalized from 200$ to 15,000$ per product. However, botting and gold selling is a violation of EULA, which falls under contractual law. Anet will have to establish a harm done by violation of such contract which would be difficult. [See Blizzard vs Mdy case where Blizzard fails to sue a botting company for WoW.] Banning those violators is much more effective than suing them.

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

Well I do know that some companies sue some websites for sharing their products for free on torrents, basically I don’t know if by law Anet could sue gold selling sites to get rid of them, it’s really easy to find those sites, other way would be adding gold sending limit, as most gold sellers send gold by mail. Indeed there is no way to 100% stop gold selling but are a lot of effective tools to reduce it.

They can try to sue those company but I guarantee you it will fail. Sharing products for free on torrents is a violation of copyright laws, which are penalized from 200$ to 15,000$ per product. However, botting and gold selling is a violation of EULA, which falls under contractual law. Anet will have to establish a harm done by violation of such contract which would be difficult. [See Blizzard vs Mdy case where Blizzard fails to sue a botting company for WoW.] Banning those violators is much more effective than suing them.

I may be wrong but basic review of the specifics of MDY Vs Blizzard shows that Blizzard did in fact sue a Botting company, .. and won.

I don’t understand your point.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

Personally I do not think the possibility to grind gold has been lowered for to benefit the cash-shop. While you could say they did it so the gold-grinders could not grind any-more so they themselves would be more likely to spend gold. However I do think that much of the inability to work directly for items and to farm mats directly is related to the cash-shop (why buy gold if you can get them buy playing for them). It makes gold more important and so people are more likely to buy gold and it works two ways because items in the cash-shop can only be obtained with gold (if we talk about ingame methods) what drives of the need for gold even more. While at the same time is devalues the item. What is so great about having a skin from a hard to kill boss if other people run around in even better looking gear they got with brainlessly grinding gold or with buying gold or the items? It totally devalues rewards. Same for the temporary nature of the LS. Luckily they seem to have realised finally that hat was a bad idea indeed.

So while I not think reducing the gold-grind options is done for the benefit of the cash-shop there are still many (negative) things done for the cash-shop and the cash-shop has it’s own negative side-effects.

even there though nerfing gold income actually helps. the exchange rate between gold and gems is also tied to people’s income directly. If I am a farmer making 15g per hour will I mind paying 10g for 100 gems? no! so I will end buying all the gems I need which will drive the price up even more. Using gw2spidy and sampling various points in time you can clearly see the exchange rate has varied between the period in time gold per hour flactuating between 30 mins – 1 hr worth of income. So even there reducing gold income will actually help by most likely lowering the conversion price as well in the long run. Because again lets face it for someone who used to make 15g per hour who might now make 10g per hour due to the nerf they’re not going to care much that now 100gems cost 1hr of their time instead of 45mins of their time, I doubt it will cause a single one of them to suddenly take out their credit card to make up for the difference. The same cannot be said for people who do not farm but just play the game the way they enjoy (which happens to not be farming) and make only about 50s per hour. For them buying 100 gems means 20 hours of game time and thats significant. They’re the ones who are more likely to use a credit card to bridge the gap. These nerfs will actually help there by hopefully making the gap smaller.

as for why play the game for the stuff you need when you can just buy it. That problem definitely exists but I am skeptical that most people address that by their wallet. I am sure some just hate farming and would rather use a credit card to get the gold they need but I have a feeling (cant really confirm this in anyway) that there are tons of farmers who simply farm the gold directly. Besides like I already argued the nerfs will also cause their prices to fall too which will severely limit the affect that will have on this argument.

I am not sure what was the point of your first paragraph because I started with saying that I did not think them nerving some of the gold-grind (well mainly them removing the queens-dale train) was related to the cash-shop. While you could come up with reasons as to why it would benefit as to why it would not benefit (like your example). I did however say that the cash-shop still is very much related to the gold-grind. So not sure what was the point of your first paragraph.

“why play the game for the stuff you need when you can just buy it ” No I said that just the other way around. Why get gold if you can get in by playing the game. It would likely mean less sales.

And again there are the items you can only get with gold, not in-game.

Obviously people are spending money on it. I also don’t get what is fun about buying the item. The fun part is playing for them. But that part is for a big part removed or turned into a gold-grind. (sucking the fun out of the game). Apparently some people are then enjoying buying the item. Well for me the enjoyment is earning the item in the game and the item also derives it value for a big part based on the way you earn it. However that also means that making it a gold-grind or just a cash-shop buy totally devalues the item. Sure it may look cool and flamy but real ingame value does it not have, it’s no prestige item.

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

Devata I am starting to get the impression that this game was not meant for us. But for players that are perfectly content with buying everything at the Gem Store. Or Buying it at the TP, after grinding out the gold for it, or Bought the gems, to convert to gold for it.

In my opinion, doing the above makes me feel Like I am working a job.

And it IS different than going out into the world… and finding a camp that drops the mats I need…that I then use in My tradeskills.

This game seems to have Anet sticking their hands In almost every aspect of the creation process for a Lot of items.

Example:

Crafted bags.

I cannot make a bag unless I either play the game for a LONG time, salvaging everything for cloth,… ( requires I buy a salvage kit either from an NPC vendor or a BLTP Salvage kit off the gem store.) more often than not, I need to buy the cloth on the TP. Where Anet gets a cut. ( they get a cut either way)

I then need to buy a special sigil, that may comprise 80 to 90 % of the cost of manufacture, and 70 to 85% of the gross after sale. Seems that crafting bags is basically working for Anet as some type of low paid independent contractor.

After the bag is crafted, it goes On the TP, because Anet refuses to put a CoD function in emails. They want me to either sell through the TP, or TRUST the recipient, or have them trust me. ( Not likely with strangers). (In almost EVERY GAME I ever played…. While there may be an Auction House to handle sales of items to other players… direct trade with other players is an Option. Either through a “trade window” or through “Mail with CoD”. This is the first I play where ALL trading is through Anet.)

Once On the TP, they get yet, another cut. All of this because the way the game is set up… they want as many players as possible… working for GOLD…. or buying Gems. then Using the Gold or gems, in the TP.

Each step of the way, taking a cut.

The end result was a bag that sold On the TP for 13g. but that I needed to use a sigil that had a fixed cost of 10 to 11 g. I forget exactly how much. so pure profit? Is there any? This is why i stopped making bags.

When I play other games, I feel i am playing other games. When i play Gw2… I LOVE the mechanics of GAMEPLAY…. but the economy just makes me feel like Anet’s b****.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

(edited by Nerelith.7360)

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Posted by: Brother Grimm.5176

Brother Grimm.5176

FAR too many incorrect assumptions in OPs points to being commenting, so my analysis of this post is that the OP has MANY perception issues that I’m sure others will be happy to point out…..

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

I may be wrong but basic review of the specifics of MDY Vs Blizzard shows that Blizzard did in fact sue a Botting company, .. and won.

I don’t understand your point.

In Blizzard vs Mdy

“MDY Industries appealed the judgment of the district court, and a judgment was delivered by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on 14 December 2010. In the ruling, the summary judgment against MDY for contributory copyright infringement was reversed. The court ruled that "for a licensee’s violation of a contract to constitute copyright infringement, there must be a nexus between the condition and the licensor’s exclusive rights of copyright. Here, WoW players do not commit copyright infringement by using Glider in violation of the [terms of use].

(However) […] The court […] upheld the judgment that MDY violated the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act against trafficking in copyright circumvention technologies, […] (namely because Glider tries to hide itself for Warden)

The summary judgment for tortious contract interference was vacated and remanded to the district court for further consideration because the requirements for summary judgment – that as a matter of law, judgment could only possibly be found in favor of one party even when all disputed facts are considered in a light most favorable to the other party – were not met. "

The court found that MDY violated a portion of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act because Glider tries to hide itself from the detection program – Warden – but not in the sense that it helps the player copy anything. But that of itself does not warrant a monetary penalty because the judgment could not be met. Hence I said “Blizzard fails” in the sense that they couldn’t win.

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Posted by: Draknar.5748

Draknar.5748

Example:

Crafted bags.

I cannot make a bag unless I either play the game for a LONG time, salvaging everything for cloth,… ( requires I buy a salvage kit either from an NPC vendor or a BLTP Salvage kit off the gem store.) more often than not, I need to buy the cloth on the TP. Where Anet gets a cut. ( they get a cut either way)

Ah yes, making a bag. In the real world all bag makers gather their own silk from worms, refine it into cloth, then into bolts, and THEN craft the bag using hand-crafted threading and hand-forged rings/buckles.

When you buy cloth on the TP, just imagine you are running a bag shop out of your garage and you are buying the materials from eBay/craigslist. That’s how pretty much everyone in the world does it.

I won’t stop because I can’t stop.

It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

Example:

Crafted bags.

I cannot make a bag unless I either play the game for a LONG time, salvaging everything for cloth,… ( requires I buy a salvage kit either from an NPC vendor or a BLTP Salvage kit off the gem store.) more often than not, I need to buy the cloth on the TP. Where Anet gets a cut. ( they get a cut either way)

Ah yes, making a bag. In the real world all bag makers gather their own silk from worms, refine it into cloth, then into bolts, and THEN craft the bag using hand-crafted threading and hand-forged rings/buckles.

When you buy cloth on the TP, just imagine you are running a bag shop out of your garage and you are buying the materials from eBay/craigslist. That’s how pretty much everyone in the world does it.

Tyria is Not real life. You completely deflected from My Main issue.

The extent that Anet has their hands In EVERY step of the process. Turning any crafters into effective sweat shop workers.

I understand that there are players that don’t give a rat’s behind about crafting, aside from the xp gained from it.

For me…. Crafting is something I enjoy, I Like creating items that have potential value, aside from game mechanics. ( oooh 20 xp points per bolt of cloth.)

In another game I might mention, I know where to gather the cloth, I can make the items needed to make multi-slot bags, that I then can sell On the Auction House, sometimes for 150g each… usually they sell within 24 Hours of being put up.

So… Nice deflection. The issue is… every step of the creation process Anet is there, grabbing some of the profit.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

Devata I am starting to get the impression that this game was not meant for us. But for players that are perfectly content with buying everything at the Gem Store. Or Buying it at the TP, after grinding out the gold for it, or Bought the gems, to convert to gold for it.

In my opinion, doing the above makes me feel Like I am working a job.

~

The end result was a bag that sold On the TP for 13g. but that I needed to use a sigil that had a fixed cost of 10 to 11 g. I forget exactly how much. so pure profit? Is there any? This is why i stopped making bags.

When I play other games, I feel i am playing other games. When i play Gw2… I LOVE the mechanics of GAMEPLAY…. but the economy just makes me feel like Anet’s b****.

Well one of the main reason I did go for GW2 was because it was supposed to use the B2P model not F2P. That was great because I could then avoid exactly this sort of mechanics and that’s one of the main reasons.. no I guess the main reason for my interest in GW2. Sadly the game is now more of a F2P game… as it focuses on cash-shop for income not on game-sales (as expansions are part of the game, that also counts as game sales). Including the effects of it that I came to this game for to avoid.

Also the hole idea of being focused on cosmetics.. The engineering profession we talked about before.. now that’s the stuff I expect when you focus on cosmetics and ‘casual’ game-play.
(as far as such items are even in GW2 they are mainly cash-shop related so are not game-play elements. As to be expected in a cash-shop game and that’s then also why I was so interested in a B2P game.)

So is the game something for me or not.? It should be my (and your?) game. In the current state however it’s not the game it should have been.

Personally also in other games I never crafted for gold… well I did once find an item that was easy to make and sold good so then I started selling it but overall that was never a drive for me. I always crafted for myself. If I put something on a TP it was mainly because in many mmo’s it says something like “crafted by ..” and it was sort of a nice idea that somebody else is running around with your name. However yeah I did notice that usually there are some craftable items that can make money. I haven’t seen that yet in GW2 but I am not sure they are not in GW2.

The fact that you need to buy something in order to create something (when that item is expensive) is also something I dislike. It really tells that they want to make sure you did not get everything by farming the item.. you need to involve gold with it.

Also the legendary requires like 200 of something that sells (I think for 1 gold) at a vender. So what is fun or skill-full about buying that item of the vendor? It isn’t. It’s just there because they want to make 100% sure you put gold into it. It has nothing to do with increasing the fun / game-play of making the legendary.

(edited by Devata.6589)

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

Devata I am starting to get the impression that this game was not meant for us. But for players that are perfectly content with buying everything at the Gem Store. Or Buying it at the TP, after grinding out the gold for it, or Bought the gems, to convert to gold for it.

In my opinion, doing the above makes me feel Like I am working a job.

~

The end result was a bag that sold On the TP for 13g. but that I needed to use a sigil that had a fixed cost of 10 to 11 g. I forget exactly how much. so pure profit? Is there any? This is why i stopped making bags.

When I play other games, I feel i am playing other games. When i play Gw2… I LOVE the mechanics of GAMEPLAY…. but the economy just makes me feel like Anet’s b****.

Well one of the main reason I did go for GW2 was because it was supposed to use the B2P model not F2P. that was great because I could then avoid exactly this sort of mechanics and thats one of the main reasons.. no I guess the main reason for my interest in GW2. Sadly the game is now more of a F2P game… as it focuses on cash-shop for income not on game-sales (as expansions are part of the game,, that also counts as game sales).

Also the hole idea of being focused on cosmetics.. The engineering profession we talked about before.. now thats the stuff I expect when you focus on cosmetics and casual game-play.

So is the game something for me or not.. It should be my (and your?) game. In the current state however it’s not the game it should have been.

Personally I also in other games never crafted for gold… well I did once find an item that was easy to make and sold good so then I started selling it but I was overall that was never a drive for me. I always crafted for myself. If I put something on a TP it was mainly because in many mmo’s it says “crafted by ..” and it was sort of a nice idea that somebody else is running around with your name. However yeah I did notice that usually there are some craft-able items that can make money. I haven’t seen that yet in GW2 but I am not sure.

Thee fact that you need to buy something in order to create something (when that item is expensive) is also something I dislike. It really tells that they want to make sure you did not get everything by farming the item.. you need to involve money with it.

I saw a Guy running around On a Mech-warrior Mount…. Similar to the asura elite…but VERY Steampunk ish…. Steampunk-esque?

I asked the guy " Oh wow, where did you get it? " was an engineer thing..turns out Not Only from engineer but also Not BoP.

When I used to play that game everything engineers made was BoP. or..only useable by engineers.

So I am making a new character and said " My alts need that."

Turns out they can also make a steampunk type helicopter. the thing runs on coal, tons of smoke polluting the place, I fell in Love at first sight.

THIS is what I think of when I think of cosmetics and casual.

Something totally useless in combat, but fun to ride around in.

but… the fact that gw2 is so TP/Gemstore centered. DOES feel like what people think about when they think.." Free2play/pay2win"

is it pay2win ? well as long as Gold sells in exchange for gems… it’s borderline….

This game needs More utterly useless in combat …but FUN items that can be obtained either from crafting…or from simply playing…

too much has Anet’s hands In our pockets. Starting with the salvage kits…

In other games you kill a mob, they drop cloth…

In THIS game unless you spend Money on a salvage kit, you cannot get cloth off mobs.

all the way through the creation proocess… nibble here, nibble there… Anet is nickle-and-diming us to death…. " Death by a Thousand cuts" kinda thing…

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: Galen Grey.4709

Galen Grey.4709

@Nerelith

you keep acting like Gold sinks exist only in Gw2 . As I already explained thats not the case.
So lets go with your steampunkish helicopter.. I am assume you’re talking about the Turbo-Charged Flying machine right?

You may not need to use a salvage kit to get materials you need but there are some costs you need to pay in order to build that thing. Not just that but you also need to use picks and tools that have an ongoing repair cost not really any different than having to buy a salvage kit. Lets see shall we.

First is the recipe that you can only acquire by paying for it. – 18g
You need a hula girl doll that can only be bought from an NPC. – at least 80g

Those are the direct costs but you also have indirect costs:
You need a pick and you need to repair it when it degrades.
You need tools to craft that degrades and also needs repairing now and then
You need to have high enough mining level that requires paying trainers at every stage.
You need to know how to smelt the ores involved and you have to pay trainers to learn them.

Now dont get me wrong, Not bashing either game here. Gold sinks are essential for the economy and its a good thing they exist. Not just that but certainly not bashing the engineering profession in WoW, I’d love for something like that to exist in Gw2 for sure!

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Not just that but certainly not bashing the engineering profession in WoW, I’d love for something like that to exist in Gw2 for sure!

Engineering~ <3

But yes, gold sinks are everywhere. Even in a game where you can farm/make every single item from scratch, like FF14. Very elaborate crafting system, but you’d still end up blowing tons of gil on teleports to get those places where the materials are. Or buying them from guild vendors or the marketplace. A savvy crafter can turn that around into decent money, but even then, there’s a 5% tax on sales plus the possibility of a tariff on the purchasing player.

Of course, now I’m reminded that GW2 crafting makes me sad. :\

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632