New trait system Good or bad?
I somehow feel this will benefit the newer players that start out with the new system rather than the vets that may have quite a few toons. I have 13 different characters, and its taken me a long time to tweak to them to the point Im happy with the builds for PvP (lev 80), or WvW (Lev 1640). 13 toons all lev 80 taken me a long time to play and tweak. One patch has killed that, simple, don’t need to elaborate.
Calm down everyone. Jon Peters explained the process and decisions behind it in this forum, and it makes sense. The good news is that when you’re 80 you do indeed have plenty of points to unlock everything, so if the process didn’t accurately interpret your prior build you will be able to fix it… in time. Yeah, for some people it’s not ideal, but it’s not permanent or irreparable.
Why am I more inclined to believe Meglobob.8620’s explanation?
There will always be someone getting the short stick-hard to find the proper balance in which every player will be satisfied.
Wouldn’t call anyone who dislikes the changes an idiot, but there’s is a point to opening one’s mind to the “new” GW2 build system.
I can’t say I despise it, but in general I think that reducing choice for the sake of balance is not a good design mantra. At all. No game will ever be perfectly balanced anyway, so you end up just reducing the immersion and enjoyment of people experimenting with different builds.
Calm down everyone. Jon Peters explained the process and decisions behind it in this forum, and it makes sense. The good news is that when you’re 80 you do indeed have plenty of points to unlock everything, so if the process didn’t accurately interpret your prior build you will be able to fix it… in time. Yeah, for some people it’s not ideal, but it’s not permanent or irreparable.
Why am I more inclined to believe Meglobob.8620’s explanation?
The inability to release a preconceived bias perhaps?
My opinion so far is – it could be better, it could be worse. I typically don’t like being put on rails in MMOs, but there’s still a reasonable amount of flexibility and I like not having stats tied to traits.
My only problem with new system is that there is no longer descriotion for trait lines if you choose them.
You know while line of text under trait line would be much helpfull than waiting for tooltip to show.
Lack of choice = Bad.
I feel the same, it made some classes stonger one or two very similiar builds that were already strong and player that played other builds very very lacky/week.
Does anyone know of a reset? for some reason all my skill points on my lvl 25 warrior have been channeled into shouts and defence without my knowledge and I don’t want to have to play sub optimally till I hit lvl 80
Hero points could be earned quite fast…
I started only few days ago and yesterday at lvl 70 with only 65% map completed I could already train everything.
Now I have 67 unused points and never even visited map higher than for lvl 50-60 as I am doing it all from bottom up. (now on 17th map – Iron Marches)
The change didn’t nerf the Meta, It nerfed the “creative” builds. Many hours of work went into equipment and characters that is now wasted for many of us. Boon duration, Conditon Duration are gone. Ascended pistols and shortbows are useless, along with their Legendaries. Ascended armor sets now need retooled and the runes will be lost. In GW1 the cost of changing a build was negligible. GW2 was allready more gear dependant and after this patch even more so. Complaints with merit aren’t whining and our money in AND out of game should not be taken for granted.
Spvp and gvg are both improved. Burn builds are effective, but have to switch off/on according to certain things like number of high-health dudes on the other team. Example a team with two thieves and no necros a condi/burn build using a shoutbow is effective. Against a team with no thieves/mesmers and has necros, should switch off to a cele/strength shoutbow.
With gvgs the increased power has made surviving much more difficult and has both improved the skill gap and quickness to rounds. Ele’s can now do almost as much damage as the before “necro carry” in gvg. With warriors’ and guardians’ buffs can now do things like stealth engages during regroups to mow down people with high bursts of damage. Additionally, all classes (save for maybe thief?) are in map chat gloating how OP their class is now. Good stuff
I’m a veteran. This new trait system is even for me too confusing. It needs to be simplified!
[RUC] Riverside United Corps! For Riverside!
The trait system was simplified, then simplified again. That’s all there is to it.
Of course things got cut or became inaccessible. Wicked shawkah.
I don’t see a lot of whining – I just see a lot of people not getting all excited about the change as Anet seemed to be hoping for.
It is going to take a good amount of gold grind for me to get my toons back to a fairly playable place.
Between runes, gear, and testing new builds that is a lot of time and in game money that has to be spent just to get to a place where I like playing my toons again.
Some of it might be fun, but for the most part it feels like a slog.
I had an awesome banner build on my warrior that I LOVED playing in PvE when helping new people with some larger events and that build is gone. Trying to come up with something similar ha been a pain and makes me not want to play that toon even though I’ve invest a ton into her since launch.
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!
Other than one Ranger nerf I don’t like, I love the new system. I’m having fun coming up with my new trait line configurations.
The ranger nerf took away the way I loved to play my ranger who was my main. I simply cannot play like I could before. That being said, I will get over it and come up with something new.
It’s all good.
The trait system killed a lot of neat balance and design players put in the past to their builds, good thing they came out with the feature to change stats on ascended gear, that sort of account for part of the loss…
It’s a step forward in terms merging useless traits together to make it more meaningful, it should be pretty decent after all the major balance tweaks are ironed out. But overall there is less build diversity now.. that’s for sure. (Whether that diversity was meaningful or not, its definitely not as locked down as now)
I’m fairly happy, ATM.
When I first looked at it, it seemed a little confusing, but once I got my head around it, it seemed like an improvement over what we had previously.
I for one am happy, theory crafting news build is a big part of my end game. This will keep me busy for a while.
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Stop whining, start creating, use that organ inside your skull for once instead of letting others use theirs for you.
Sure, sure. It was because people were whinning that you got your free character slot when prepurchasing HoT. Obviously, the whinners were the winners… And everyone else was just freeloaders.
I like these new changes but there is one thing that is kittening me off! All of my low level characters got the traits chosen for me, and ALL WRONG! Now i have to do tons of hero chalenges and power leveling to make up for the changes ANet made for me, and in the meanwhile not being able to play how i want. Please ANet make it so we recieve the points but can use however we see fit, and not the choices you think are right -_-
I agree with you. Its much better when people create their own builds I’m glad some people feel the same as I do.
The change didn’t nerf the Meta, It nerfed the “creative” builds. Many hours of work went into equipment and characters that is now wasted for many of us. Boon duration, Conditon Duration are gone. Ascended pistols and shortbows are useless, along with their Legendaries. Ascended armor sets now need retooled and the runes will be lost. In GW1 the cost of changing a build was negligible. GW2 was allready more gear dependant and after this patch even more so. Complaints with merit aren’t whining and our money in AND out of game should not be taken for granted.
This exactly. Nothing wrong with taking people to task when they kitten up.
Being a long time player I hadn’t even considered how the gear changes would affect those that aren’t as well established. Marginalizing newer players by making exotic/ascended gear more important then it was is probably the worst thing the devs could have done. The shallow power curve of this game is probably the #1 thing that keeps it from devolving into a an insular pack of elitist pricks like every other MMO.
I agree with you. Its much better when people create their own builds I’m glad some people feel the same as I do.
I totally agree! I never copy other people’s builds. I create my own. In every single MMO. I throw up everytime I see people sharing and/or asking for builds…
And i hate it when people start using “meta” builds are prerequisites for joining a particular group/guild
There is only so much you can take from one company before it becomes too much. I logged into the game took one look at the new trait system and logged back out. I’m not even going to say anything else, just that it is highly unlikely that I will be logging back in anytime soon, if ever.
Which is a real shame cause I liked this game, but the devs seem to live in Tyria, not here with the rest of us and I honestly just don’t think I can deal with it anymore.
I agree – eliminating our ability to have minor traits across multiple trait lines seriously hampers our flexibility, and makes numerous builds un-viable.
While promising more flexibility, I have to say, it appears we have less. I don’t see where the new traiting has provided us with any significant benefit, and in fact has reduced our options.
I’d missed that traits no longer stack stats. That’s a HUGE loss, and explains why my warrior suddenly went from 30K hp down to 23K; and that’s with good exotic armor selected for toughness and vitality.
The problem no doubt is much worse for the silk and leather classes, and pretty much takes Warrior off the table for PvP or WvW (except in zergs, where they can be supported).
Lack of choice is bad. But the trend is for Anet to remove choice from the game (remember mix and match runes?). I don’t think they have the skills to balance the game until the amount of choice is reduced even more.
Also, the UI is AWFUL.
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on the very small stats increase seen in the armor).
Tyr Sylvison – Warrior
Illyiah – Revenant
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
It previously wasn’t free because you couldn’t change the stats at all. Five gold (x6 armor pieces + weapons) is very likely an extremely negligible sum to those who have ascended armor/weapons. I would have been incredibly angry if there was no way to convert the armor, but since it is so easy to do I don’t see a problem. Newer people who were in exotics and have less gold will have a far more difficult time however.
Tyr Sylvison – Warrior
Illyiah – Revenant
I think it’s great. All of my builds still work and some even got nice boosts. All in all, each trait line seems to have a clearer purpose and is easier to understand.
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
It previously wasn’t free because you couldn’t change the stats at all. Five gold (x6 armor pieces + weapons) is very likely an extremely negligible sum to those who have ascended armor/weapons. I would have been incredibly angry if there was no way to convert the armor, but since it is so easy to do I don’t see a problem. Newer people who were in exotics and have less gold will have a far more difficult time however.
I disagree regarding stats – the cost was nominal, and after a point, became free. It was actually a really REALLY nice feature. It’s been that way for quite some time.
I have very little Ascended, 6 characters at level 80, all of whom I have in Exotic, some with multiple sets to suit particular builds. These changes are not friendly to that, and at first exposure, considerably reduce the quality and enjoyment of my play.
Not what I’d hoped for reading the initial press. Not what I expected, either.
(edited by jdallen.5179)
I think it’s great. All of my builds still work and some even got nice boosts. All in all, each trait line seems to have a clearer purpose and is easier to understand.
Glad it worked for you.
I have to say, I’m not advocating throwing out the changes; for example, eliminating skill points is actually a pretty good thing.
I think some of the things cut should not have been, and how the changes fall is very uneven across classes. Anet could easily put a few things back (e.g. – stat stacking of some sort, the ability to have more than three traits), and still preserve the basic integrity of their build. Doing so might also solve some of the balance issues we are seeing.
At the moment it has not impact my Ele that much because of my ele’s build is a hybrid build. But I am waiting for the nerf hammer to come down first before changing equipment.
The new trait system is decent. I won’t say it is great. But it is easier to set the traits you want without moving points from here to there.
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
It previously wasn’t free because you couldn’t change the stats at all. Five gold (x6 armor pieces + weapons) is very likely an extremely negligible sum to those who have ascended armor/weapons. I would have been incredibly angry if there was no way to convert the armor, but since it is so easy to do I don’t see a problem. Newer people who were in exotics and have less gold will have a far more difficult time however.
I disagree regarding stats – the cost was nominal, and after a point, became free. It was actually a really REALLY nice feature. It’s been that way for quite some time.
I have very little Ascended, 6 characters at level 80, all of whom I have in Exotic, some with multiple sets to suit particular builds. These changes are not friendly to that, and at first exposure, considerably reduce the quality and enjoyment of my play.
Not what I’d hoped for reading the initial press. Not what I expected, either.
Well assuming we are talking about PvE you should be somewhat relieved to hear that the meta for the majority of the professions has not changed, zerk still reigns supreme regardless of how much people are talking about condition damage.
My opinion on the trait change is that it is better overall in that it is more streamlined, as well as allows for easier balance and specialization additions. However, a lot of the problems and complaints from this system stem from questionable balance changes made from Anet that seem to have little logic behind them. These changes are a combination of their sole focus on sPvP balance (completely ignoring WvW and PvE balance) and lack of knowledge of certain professions.
Tyr Sylvison – Warrior
Illyiah – Revenant
(edited by GoldenTruth.2853)
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
It previously wasn’t free because you couldn’t change the stats at all. Five gold (x6 armor pieces + weapons) is very likely an extremely negligible sum to those who have ascended armor/weapons. I would have been incredibly angry if there was no way to convert the armor, but since it is so easy to do I don’t see a problem. Newer people who were in exotics and have less gold will have a far more difficult time however.
I disagree regarding stats – the cost was nominal, and after a point, became free. It was actually a really REALLY nice feature. It’s been that way for quite some time.
I have very little Ascended, 6 characters at level 80, all of whom I have in Exotic, some with multiple sets to suit particular builds. These changes are not friendly to that, and at first exposure, considerably reduce the quality and enjoyment of my play.
Not what I’d hoped for reading the initial press. Not what I expected, either.
But what you said is still false. The cost for changing exotic stats hasn’t changed at all, only changed ascended stats which could never be done before.
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
It previously wasn’t free because you couldn’t change the stats at all. Five gold (x6 armor pieces + weapons) is very likely an extremely negligible sum to those who have ascended armor/weapons. I would have been incredibly angry if there was no way to convert the armor, but since it is so easy to do I don’t see a problem. Newer people who were in exotics and have less gold will have a far more difficult time however.
I disagree regarding stats – the cost was nominal, and after a point, became free. It was actually a really REALLY nice feature. It’s been that way for quite some time.
I have very little Ascended, 6 characters at level 80, all of whom I have in Exotic, some with multiple sets to suit particular builds. These changes are not friendly to that, and at first exposure, considerably reduce the quality and enjoyment of my play.
Not what I’d hoped for reading the initial press. Not what I expected, either.
But what you said is still false. The cost for changing exotic stats hasn’t changed at all, only changed ascended stats which could never be done before.
I wasn’t clear enough. I wasn’t speaking of changing armor.
Previously we could change stats through careful crafting of builds and selection of traits. That could and did have significant impact on stats; at least it did for my builds. That’s no longer the case.
The traits are not the only problem, since the system doesn’t give bonus stats (Power, Precision etcs) we are now relying on armours (Some of us, crafted Ascended) SO IT IS AN EXPENSIVE INVESTMENT. But now, these armours are unfit for battle because, characters are not getting any boost from the trait system making it weaker or less effective. There’s a way to change the stats, you say? Well, we don’t want to grind for it, we grind enough just to get the armours. This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Just want to say it is very easy to change the ascended stats it only costs ~5 gold and 10 spirit shards per piece (which should be easily obtainable if the person was willing to spend hundreds of gold on a very small stats increase).
Ouch!
5 gold and 10 shards to do something which previously was free? And only if you’ve laid out the resources for ascended armor?
That’s not a good deal at all!
It previously wasn’t free because you couldn’t change the stats at all. Five gold (x6 armor pieces + weapons) is very likely an extremely negligible sum to those who have ascended armor/weapons. I would have been incredibly angry if there was no way to convert the armor, but since it is so easy to do I don’t see a problem. Newer people who were in exotics and have less gold will have a far more difficult time however.
I disagree regarding stats – the cost was nominal, and after a point, became free. It was actually a really REALLY nice feature. It’s been that way for quite some time.
I have very little Ascended, 6 characters at level 80, all of whom I have in Exotic, some with multiple sets to suit particular builds. These changes are not friendly to that, and at first exposure, considerably reduce the quality and enjoyment of my play.
Not what I’d hoped for reading the initial press. Not what I expected, either.
Well assuming we are talking about PvE you should be somewhat relieved to hear that the meta for the majority of the professions has not changed, zerk still reigns supreme regardless of how much people are talking about condition damage.
My opinion on the trait change is that it is better overall in that it is more streamlined, as well as allows for easier balance and specialization additions. However, a lot of the problems and complaints from this system stem from questionable balance changes made from Anet that seem to have little logic behind them. These changes are a combination of their sole focus on sPvP balance (completely ignoring WvW and PvE balance) and lack of knowledge of certain professions.
I’m generally in agreement with you. I have noticed that PvE fights now are actually quite a bit harder for my warrior. I was actually much more successful with support type builds in PvE than Zerker, but the benefits gained by traiting for support have been lost, and with lower DPS and more limited vitality and armor, he’s no longer as survivable. I may try Zerker, but its a far different style than I"m used to, and I haven’t enjoyed it as much.
Playstyle counts, and I’m being forced to make changes which as a player I may not be able to manage, and which reduce my enjoyment.
I’m just annoyed I can’t take GS recharge reduction and shatter damage increase at the same time. Those are both useful for my open world PVE shatter build.
…This mechanic add more work for to the players and rather restrictive.
Anyone having same/similar problems?
It’s more work, maybe. That would be okay if it gave us more flexibility in play styles. Unfortunately, it feels more like they took away flexibility – like they want to start shoehorning different classes in niches ala the holy trinity.
If I felt like I was being given more options to play a class lots of different ways, I’d say great system. But it just feels incredibly restrictive; whether it’s my necro, ele, or thief, I feel like I’ve lost play style options, not gained them.
So new system was poorly designed because it didn’t offer enough variety.
So far the new trait system is bad for me. ANet have reduced build choice to a point where they might as well just remove it altogether imo.
I run necro, ranger, guardian, mesmer and warrior. Across all my chars I only used a few grandmaster traits as I felt other traits were better suited to my play style and I wanted the boosts. Now that choice has been swept away.
Since the patch went live I have only logged into necro and ranger, I saw how my ranger build especially has been destroyed and didn’t have the heart to look at my other chars. Last night I logged in just to get the daily chest then logged out.
It’s going to take a while for me to start caring again. I only hope HoT pulls off something special.
Welcome to the Internet, exposing characters since the early 80’s.
As a guardian, this has been a very good QOL change for me.
GM of Crew of Misfits (CoM)
Piken Square, EU
I can’t say that I appreciated some of the new restrictions they put in place. That said, I’ve been able to make some builds that I like on most of my characters (not that I really felt like I found anything right on the other one before, so w/e for that one). In fact, most of my characters are overall better than before. Also, not tying attributes to the traits has allowed me to use a lot of trait combinations that I couldn’t use before because my attributes were thrown too far off, especially with my Mesmer.
However, if it had been up to me, I wouldn’t have changed the gear stats or base stats. I would have added a new menu for “stat tilt” that let you distribute some points for stats, adding up to the same total that the traits gave before.
The UI is a little awkward but I really appreciate the color coding, both on the build menu and on the list of effects on your character. I think I would have made the colors more different though if I’d done it (Ele is fine, but Mesmer is all purples or pinks, for example).
Overall, I’m more happy with it than not.
I love how you can choose traits without worrying about stats now.
Overall i like the new system better
I’m sure it will be terrible and the end of the game as we know it. And so will the next iteration. And the next one. And so on.
i haven’t played enough yet to say it better or worse than before… right no I still slightly conused, where everything went, especially since i still have several character under 80.
Luckily they put the point on fire magic with my ele. I’d hate playing with earth until I’ve enough points again.
my warrior is sliightly more squishy than before the patch, but it’s not so bad that you can’T compensate.
why is specialization done in the first place ? can’t we just have build diversity ? is anet trying to get trinity back into the game ?
Archeage = Farmville with PK
My chars mainly use a mix of knights and assassin armour and trinkets to have 50% crit chance and the rest put into toughness. I have never gone down the zerker glass cannon route either as it doesn’t matter how hard you hit if you’re lay on the floor asking to be rezzed. A lot of my damage is from ’on crit activation’ of stuff and every 2nd hit being crit meant I did good damage while also being able to soak up some hits.
I liked to look for unique build/trait/armour/trinkets combinations. Some builds worked and a lot didn’t but that was all part of the fun for me. I feel a lot of that fun has now been taken away and we are forced to follow a narrow path.
Welcome to the Internet, exposing characters since the early 80’s.