Guild Wars 2

You can just look at the quote in my signature to see ArenaNet contradicting itself. Saying:

Mike OBrien

I think players are kind of maturing past the point of wanting to be on that treadmill – wanting to be in that obvious pattern of every time I catchup you’re wanting to put that carrot in front of me

…One week before Ascended gear is insulting the players’ inteligence. We know they are adding Ascended gear slowly because they want to keep using it as carrots – weapons were introduced some time after people got accessories, and armor will be introduced some time after people got weapons, to keep the “must have progression!” players eternally chasing a carrot. We also know ArenaNet promised they would not release a new tier of gear this year… And it’s interesting to see how the last kind of Ascended gear will be released by the end of this year.

This is exactly what Mike O’Brien described above. A new carrot being introduced as soon as the previous one is reached.

That interview has many similar things. How could ArenaNet say:

Mike OBrien

We even have the inverse motivation of not wanting that continual gear grind because if we have too much of that, it means players are separated and it means they can’t do those things together. When there’s a dragon attacking, is the dragon too easy for some and too difficult for others?

…Considering how the main answer from those who tell people to stop complaining about Ascended gear is, “you don’t need it to play the game”, what we have is exactly the scenario described above: will a piece of content be designed for those with exotic gear, and so may be too easy for people with Ascended gear? Or will it be balanced for people with Ascended gear, and maybe too hard for those with exotic gear?

What really amazes me is how there is no reason for those comments. We understand the direction the game has moved to. There is no justification for ArenaNet to say GW2 is a “game that’s not about continued vertical progression” when they have been telling us for quite some time that yes, they will continue to add vertical progression to the game. This kind of speech may have been fitting to the game by the time the Manifesto was released, or maybe with the release hype (does someone else remember the “Prepare for the revolution” marketing?). Saying it now… Is simply a lie. A pointless, transparent lie.

Yep Anet made changes to it’s originally plans. 100% true. They went in with one intention, it didn’t work out and they changed mid-stride. kitten ed a whole lot of people off in the process.

I really believe the Anet devs thought they could get away with only cosmetic upgrades…and then the game met the real world. Sucks, but what did you expect them to do. Say goodbye to most of the game’s population?

Do you guys really think Anet devs woke up one day and I said, I have a great idea. Let’s screw over our strongest fans. That will be fun!

Because I don’t think that’s how it happened.

Thorn.7963:

I wish I could understand what happened at ANet. It feels like a different team today

As far as I’m aware…it is.
People need to stop relying on old quotes just to try to prove a relevant point.
Company ideas and ideals evolve over the course of time and A-net is no different – the game, as we see it today, could be an entirely different beast tomorrow and rehashing something said in the past isn’t going to change that.
Players either adapt or move on.

Accept it – they lied, again. There was a dramatic change in Anet’s structure right around release (2 of the 3 founders left, almost the entire dev team quit/were fired, and now we have about 6 people of the original team left.)

The people in charge now are about making money from everything – and we’re getting what you’d expect from it. Content that requires 24/7 game play, or cracking open your wallet.

It’s disappointing, and vaguely upsetting, but frankly, what I’ve come to expect from the “new” Anet.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

cesmode.4257:

I really think arenanet wanted to be the game to change the genre. Nope.

I look to Everquest Next to do that.

Remembering who is in charge of the EverQuest IP, I’m really not thinking that will happen. But then, they did make the grindfest which was the original game. (“There are no such thing as Heck Levels. It’s just a misperception.”) So if you want to hang your hopes on that?

I really hope it doesn’t disappoint.

Yes, but SOE and EQN is not going around saying “we dont make grindy games” , “play how you want”.

With each game/mmo I play or am interested in I have different expectations based on what the devs tout during their ‘hype’ period.

Vayne.8563:

Yep Anet made changes to it’s originally plans. 100% true. They went in with one intention, it didn’t work out and they changed mid-stride. kitten ed a whole lot of people off in the process.

I really believe the Anet devs thought they could get away with only cosmetic upgrades…and then the game met the real world. Sucks, but what did you expect them to do. Say goodbye to most of the game’s population?

Do you guys really think Anet devs woke up one day and I said, I have a great idea. Let’s screw over our strongest fans. That will be fun!

Because I don’t think that’s how it happened.

Vayne, you know as well as I do that the founders left, the dev team changed dramatically, and the company is now co-headed by someone who firmly believes in making money from everything. I know you’re the Anet white knight, but this time around, you’re flat out wrong dude.

I’ve had your back before – but in this instance, they lied. They didn’t even pretend otherwise – they looked at the entire fanbase who enjoyed GW1 and said “kitten YOU!” To pretend otherwise is just silly.

Raine.1394:

Mike might have a future in politics as they all flip-flop depending on the direction of the wind. By November of last year he had reversed himself on VP and dismissed GW1 as “stagnant” without VP. Unfortunately, most gamers want to be able to depend on statements of direction from game developers. It’s really the only way we know whether we want to stick with a franchise.

“How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.” Mike O’Brien in the AMA

Nearly every GW1 player thinks GW1 was great.

I guess Mr O Brien never played GW1.

Vayne.8563:

Got a date on that quote? lol

Interview with Eric Flannum on Kill Ten Rats is here

http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/11/29/gw2-interview-with-arenanets-eric-flannum/

I suggest you all read it.

The company is built around the idea of iteration. They change stuff up when they see things aren’t working. They kill entire ideas. Devs are told not to be too attached to their ideas because they might well change. Anet has been up front about iteration long before launch. They try things they see if they work, they change them. Even major stuff like having energy in the game.

So how does this interview and everything they said about iteration stack up against a single or even a couple of old quotes.

MMOs have changed. They’ve moved the goal post. It was always a possibility because they iterate. They saw something wasn’t working and they changed it.

If they hadn’t changed it when they saw it wasn’t working, they’d have been lying about iteration.

So.. by this logic.

If a developer, pre-launch, says “We will launch without a subscription. We believe games should not have a sub, and you should pay for what you want…”

And then a year or two later, they announce “We will begin a subscription plan. 15 dollars a month to login. This is to ensure the future of our game”

So by your logic, the above scenario is ok?

Erick Alastor.3917:

cesmode.4257:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Here is to hoping that I actually get some rng luck on my side since my highest crafting level is like 10. I rarely craft in any mmo and to now make a BiS piece of gear more or less exclusive to crafting is just ugh for me. My disappointment is compounded by Anet’s decision to go this way with their game, I realize they want to be a popular mmo….but pandering to the crowd that has been trained to only see progression as increasing stats just really makes me sad for the future of the genre as a whole. Unimaginative players that are comfortable with unimaginative design, are going to keep mmorpg game development status quo for a very long time.

I really think arenanet wanted to be the game to change the genre. Nope.

I look to Everquest Next to do that.

And you will be disappointed by that one too, look at this link, locusts have already started whining, they want VP and they will get it.
http://www.eqnextfans.com/forums/everquest-next/general-discussion/40051-absence-of-levels-how-to-progress

Gw2 had a great potential, but the problem lies on both sides, devs lied but I suppose they did it (also) because the whole game has been invaded by a crowd of brainwashed human-shaped bots.

I might be OK with VP in EQN. Im expecting it. I was not expecting it in GW2…as per their pre launch hype.

That scenario IS ok. They take the risks, and we can vote with our feet and our wallets on every given day.

SW:TOR talked ENORMOUS smack against the free to play model, then turned around and implemented a really stupid version of it a year later – their privilege, but I don’t pay a subscription OR play for free there any more.

“If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone” Can someone please tell me where is this item at? Was it deleted with all hardcore dungeons? I really hope he wasn’t referring to legendary weapons because there’s only thousands of them in LA alone lmao. Where is dat “soooooo kitten rare” item?

You don’t need to play a thousand hours to get an Ascended weapon. That quote said if players want to play 1000 hours, ascended weapons will be no where near that.

Nike.2631:

That scenario IS ok. They take the risks, and we can vote with our feet and our wallets on every given day.

SW:TOR talked ENORMOUS smack against the free to play model, then turned around and implemented a really stupid version of it a year later – their privilege, but I don’t pay a subscription OR play for free there any more.

And SWTOR is still as horrible as it was.

Bad example.

GW2 is/was good.

The direction the devs are taking is right to the toilet.

And not the mystic toilet…

The funny part is that someone could be suckered into believing that salesman hustle.

This is an MMO

Your arguments are invalid

What this really comes down to is the undeniable fact that the game we were told we would be getting is not the game we have been given. Plain and simple. ANet had and still has some really amazing developers working for them who I believe design really great content. I’ve been playing the GW series since Pre-Searing and absolutely love so many things about GW2 but I got sucker punched in the face from a trusted source and it has left a terrible flavor in my mouth.

My girlfriend and I are currently looking for another game to play because we both need a break to recover from getting stabbed in the back. Had the game held true to it’s marketed design philosophy taking a break wouldn’t have been a big deal, I wouldn’t be punished for not playing. So much for that, huh. Almost every new design is another way to force you to play and get X,Y and Z done each day. Just yet another thing they went back on their word about. As such I doubt we’ll be coming back after missing so much. Oh well.

stale.9785:

Accept it – they lied, again. There was a dramatic change in Anet’s structure right around release (2 of the 3 founders left, almost the entire dev team quit/were fired, and now we have about 6 people of the original team left.)

The people in charge now are about making money from everything – and we’re getting what you’d expect from it. Content that requires 24/7 game play, or cracking open your wallet.

It’s disappointing, and vaguely upsetting, but frankly, what I’ve come to expect from the “new” Anet.

Lie implies intent. What evidence do you have that when Anet devs made these quotes they didn’t think them true.

cesmode.4257:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

cesmode.4257:

I really think arenanet wanted to be the game to change the genre. Nope.

I look to Everquest Next to do that.

Remembering who is in charge of the EverQuest IP, I’m really not thinking that will happen. But then, they did make the grindfest which was the original game. (“There are no such thing as Heck Levels. It’s just a misperception.”) So if you want to hang your hopes on that?

I really hope it doesn’t disappoint.

Yes, but SOE and EQN is not going around saying “we dont make grindy games” , “play how you want”.

With each game/mmo I play or am interested in I have different expectations based on what the devs tout during their ‘hype’ period.

No, they don’t, but they did have a game where lots of things were broken and they would pretend they were working fine, and would outright lie about things being working or broken in official posts. Repeatedly.

There’s a world of difference between that and the carefully constructed wordings we get from ANet.

cesmode.4257:

Raine.1394:

Mike might have a future in politics as they all flip-flop depending on the direction of the wind. By November of last year he had reversed himself on VP and dismissed GW1 as “stagnant” without VP. Unfortunately, most gamers want to be able to depend on statements of direction from game developers. It’s really the only way we know whether we want to stick with a franchise.

“How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.” Mike O’Brien in the AMA

Nearly every GW1 player thinks GW1 was great.

I guess Mr O Brien never played GW1.

Nearly every Guild Wars 1 player who stayed with the game, which I would guess is a vast minority of those who tried it.

Sure people who played hte game for a long time like the game. No mystery there. But how many tried it and really didn’t like it? I suspect you’re greatly underestimating that number.

This game is actually doing well, out of all the games Ive played this requires the least amount of grinding.
Quit moaning, you are playing the game wrong, you make it grindy for yourself. You do stupid braindead kitten over and over again and then come on the forums blaming Anet.

…

Aphix.9846:

This game is actually doing well, out of all the games Ive played this requires the least amount of grinding.
Quit moaning, you are playing the game wrong, you make it grindy for yourself. You do stupid braindead kitten over and over again and then come on the forums blaming Anet.

…

This might be true in the PvE world of MOAR ZERKER!, but in WvW, we want 2 things: to stay competitive, and not have to PvE to do so. My favorite things about GW2 before the november update, was knowing that I was geared, I had gotten mileage out of PvE, and now I could spend my days battling in WvW worry-free. Now ANet releases a new batch of grind with not just higher base stats, but higher base damage, and they do it just a month before the whole WvW season kicks off. While most of my compatriots in the borderlands were quite content to play from week to week, and point tick to point tick, now we feel even more obligated to gear up for the beginning of the season. What is this going to require? Grind.

My guess is that Anet is a victim of their own success.

The way I see it, they launched with the game they claimed they were making (no grind, etc.) with the idea that their customers would be the niche audience who wants such a game (“casuals” especially). However, the launch exceeded expectations and GW2 attracted not just these people, but a huge number of those who wanted a grindy MMO with an infinite gear treadmill.

Dollar signs flashed in front of Anet’s eyes — suddenly it looked like they were going to make much more money than they had intended! So when those who were not Anet’s original target customers started to complain that this was not the game they wanted to play — when they threatened to quit — Anet panicked. They started catering to these customers because: More Money. And that’s what gave us the game we have now.

The tragic thing is that this makes GW2 just like any other MMO out there. Their original target audience, the casuals, will begin feel left behind gearwise with no hope of catching up. They will eventually quit. When the next grindy MMO comes out, the new target audience will leave as well because if you have two grindy MMO’s to choose from, you play the newer one.

Sic transit gloria mundi, I guess.

Erasculio.2914:

You can just look at the quote in my signature to see ArenaNet contradicting itself. Saying:

Mike OBrien

I think players are kind of maturing past the point of wanting to be on that treadmill – wanting to be in that obvious pattern of every time I catchup you’re wanting to put that carrot in front of me

[…]
What really amazes me is how there is no reason for those comments. We understand the direction the game has moved to. There is no justification for ArenaNet to say GW2 is a “game that’s not about continued vertical progression” when they have been telling us for quite some time that yes, they will continue to add vertical progression to the game. This kind of speech may have been fitting to the game by the time the Manifesto was released, or maybe with the release hype (does someone else remember the “Prepare for the revolution” marketing?). Saying it now… Is simply a lie. A pointless, transparent lie.

Yep this is quite frankly unbelievable and not remotely defendable.

Vayne.8563:

Lie implies intent. What evidence do you have that when Anet devs made these quotes they didn’t think them true.

They may not have lied then but the above shows that things are different now.

Vayne.8563:

stale.9785:

Accept it – they lied, again. There was a dramatic change in Anet’s structure right around release (2 of the 3 founders left, almost the entire dev team quit/were fired, and now we have about 6 people of the original team left.)

The people in charge now are about making money from everything – and we’re getting what you’d expect from it. Content that requires 24/7 game play, or cracking open your wallet.

It’s disappointing, and vaguely upsetting, but frankly, what I’ve come to expect from the “new” Anet.

Lie implies intent. What evidence do you have that when Anet devs made these quotes they didn’t think them true.

Fair enough – and like I said, I know that there’s virtually nobody left at Anet from the days when the game was in development. Nonetheless, literally thousands of their paying customers bought the game under those terms.

I fully agree with anyone who says that they’ve been lied to or betrayed by Anet. For all practical purposes, we weren’t given the product we PAID for upon release.

Imagine if any company other than a gaming company did this – at best, they’d be out of business. Far more likely, there would be large and costly lawsuits to cover.

“When I bought the car, it was implied that the motor would be an integral part of it. One day, I took it in for service, and the dealer told me “We no longer support the internal combustion format.” and removed the motor."

“I paid for the contract on the understanding that I would get a month’s worth of cable. After 3 days, they stopped my service, and advised me they were in the business of phone service instead.”

“You’ll get a game where all grind is for cosmetic items. Our tradition of best-in-slot gear not requiring an effort, and skill over gear, shall continue. Until a week from now.”

They done kittened up dude.

cesmode.4257:

Read the below quote from Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet.

Two things to understand before reading:
-Ascended gear is mower powerful than exotic. To debate otherwise is silly.
-You do not need ascended gear for most content — This is not the point!

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.

Logging in for 5 minutes a day to craft your one time daily materials for 2 weeks is not what i consider
“If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. "

Thats a total of like 70 minutes worth of your time spread over 2 weeks. How does that fall into the category of playing thousands of hours and not realistic to get…..

Just pointing out the obvious.

stale.9785:

Vayne.8563:

stale.9785:

Accept it – they lied, again. There was a dramatic change in Anet’s structure right around release (2 of the 3 founders left, almost the entire dev team quit/were fired, and now we have about 6 people of the original team left.)

The people in charge now are about making money from everything – and we’re getting what you’d expect from it. Content that requires 24/7 game play, or cracking open your wallet.

It’s disappointing, and vaguely upsetting, but frankly, what I’ve come to expect from the “new” Anet.

Lie implies intent. What evidence do you have that when Anet devs made these quotes they didn’t think them true.

Fair enough – and like I said, I know that there’s virtually nobody left at Anet from the days when the game was in development. Nonetheless, literally thousands of their paying customers bought the game under those terms.

I fully agree with anyone who says that they’ve been lied to or betrayed by Anet. For all practical purposes, we weren’t given the product we PAID for upon release.

Imagine if any company other than a gaming company did this – at best, they’d be out of business. Far more likely, there would be large and costly lawsuits to cover.

“When I bought the car, it was implied that the motor would be an integral part of it. One day, I took it in for service, and the dealer told me “We no longer support the internal combustion format.” and removed the motor."

“I paid for the contract on the understanding that I would get a month’s worth of cable. After 3 days, they stopped my service, and advised me they were in the business of phone service instead.”

“You’ll get a game where all grind is for cosmetic items. Our tradition of best-in-slot gear not requiring an effort, and skill over gear, shall continue. Until a week from now.”

They done kittened up dude.

Those are horribly irrelevant.

A better one would be.

I watched interviews and trailers of a movie, paid 20 bucks to see it and it was not anything like the trailer or interviews implied and was a bad movie.

You still saw the movie, thus you paid for it. You paid a one time fee to play this game, you got many many hours/months worth of entertainment from it. It was well worth your 50 bucks. And if not oh well…. its the cost of 2 outings to go to the movies these days -.-.

I garantee what happened was this….
Game launched flooded with people, then they started losing a large amount of players due to the fact that there was literally nothing to work for. Nothing to keep players vested in the game. So they added a power creep to get people back…. had it not worked they probably wouldn’t have continued with ascended items. The fact that they are still introducing ascended gear/items means most likely they made a good call and it increased population and income from the game vs them not doing it.

Playing a game for fun is great, but the average person logging in for an hour to do some wvw then log out does not make anet money. Providing new goals for players however keeps them coming back for more and increases the odds that money will be spent on gems.

GW2 is first and foremost a business that puts food on peoples table. They WILL ALWAYS choose the path that nets them the most population and the most money, regardless of what they said for hype before the game was launched.

morrolan.9608:

Erasculio.2914:

You can just look at the quote in my signature to see ArenaNet contradicting itself. Saying:

Mike OBrien

I think players are kind of maturing past the point of wanting to be on that treadmill – wanting to be in that obvious pattern of every time I catchup you’re wanting to put that carrot in front of me

[…]
What really amazes me is how there is no reason for those comments. We understand the direction the game has moved to. There is no justification for ArenaNet to say GW2 is a “game that’s not about continued vertical progression” when they have been telling us for quite some time that yes, they will continue to add vertical progression to the game. This kind of speech may have been fitting to the game by the time the Manifesto was released, or maybe with the release hype (does someone else remember the “Prepare for the revolution” marketing?). Saying it now… Is simply a lie. A pointless, transparent lie.

Yep this is quite frankly unbelievable and not remotely defendable.

Vayne.8563:

Lie implies intent. What evidence do you have that when Anet devs made these quotes they didn’t think them true.

They may not have lied then but the above shows that things are different now.

I agree with you 100%. Things are different now. That’s 100% true.

Every single MMO I’ve played at launch was vastly different a year later. Every single one.

I’m not sure why people don’t get used to that kind of thing. Maybe I’m jaded because it keeps happening.

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

facepalm You dont get your top weapon faster than in 2 week… Buuuu huuuuu…

Namu.5712:

cesmode.4257:

Read the below quote from Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet.

Two things to understand before reading:
-Ascended gear is mower powerful than exotic. To debate otherwise is silly.
-You do not need ascended gear for most content — This is not the point!

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.

Logging in for 5 minutes a day to craft your one time daily materials for 2 weeks is not what i consider
“If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. "

Thats a total of like 70 minutes worth of your time spread over 2 weeks. How does that fall into the category of playing thousands of hours and not realistic to get…..

Just pointing out the obvious.

Because I first need to level up my weapon smith (and w/e other crafting profession I need to level up) to 400, and with current prices, it’s all but cheap. Second, I need to grind to get the mats and craft the exotics at 400 to get to 450. Then I need to grind to get the mats to make t7 mats to go to 500. Then, I need to grind for new mats so I can finally, login once a day for 5 minutes and do what you say.
Yeah, it’s not much time to press craft once or twice per day, but you conveniently forgot all the grind that comes before you are able to press that one button.
Just pointing out the obvious.

Goodness, here we go again…
I wonder, did all you kiddies throw such a tantrum as well when you realised Santa Claus isn't real?

Spoiler just in case ¬¬

Sirendor.1394:

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

That’s pretty funny. Good luck with that.

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

That’s pretty funny. Good luck with that.

GW1?

Ballistic.4531:

Namu.5712:

cesmode.4257:

Read the below quote from Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet.

Two things to understand before reading:
-Ascended gear is mower powerful than exotic. To debate otherwise is silly.
-You do not need ascended gear for most content — This is not the point!

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.

Logging in for 5 minutes a day to craft your one time daily materials for 2 weeks is not what i consider
“If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. "

Thats a total of like 70 minutes worth of your time spread over 2 weeks. How does that fall into the category of playing thousands of hours and not realistic to get…..

Just pointing out the obvious.

Because I first need to level up my weapon smith (and w/e other crafting profession I need to level up) to 400, and with current prices, it’s all but cheap. Second, I need to grind to get the mats and craft the exotics at 400 to get to 450. Then I need to grind to get the mats to make t7 mats to go to 500. Then, I need to grind for new mats so I can finally, login once a day for 5 minutes and do what you say.
Yeah, it’s not much time to press craft once or twice per day, but you conveniently forgot all the grind that comes before you are able to press that one button.
Just pointing out the obvious.

Oh sorry add 8 hours to get your crafting up…. -.-
You dont have to grind new mats just play regularly like you normally do. Should have enough mats just from that.

Stop over exaggerating things lol

Vayne.8563:

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

They exist.

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

That’s pretty funny. Good luck with that.

GW1?

If Guild Wars 1 was an MMO, yeah, I’d agree with you. But since even Anet said Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO, I disagree with you.

And there’s TONS of grind in Guild Wars 1….it’s just not gear grind. Anyone who says Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a grind fest wasn’t paying attention.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

They exist.

Mmhmm. Not any of the ones I’ve tried, maybe. If they do exist, you’ll be paying a whole lot of money not to grind, which is where I draw the line.

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

That’s pretty funny. Good luck with that.

GW1?

If Guild Wars 1 was an MMO, yeah, I’d agree with you. But since even Anet said Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO, I disagree with you.

And there’s TONS of grind in Guild Wars 1….it’s just not gear grind. Anyone who says Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a grind fest wasn’t paying attention.

I think that people these days think that if you have to get new gear its a grind fest but if they added something like titles that have stats attached that you have to grind for 99% of the people kittening about gear would be cool with it lol…..

Namu.5712:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

That’s pretty funny. Good luck with that.

GW1?

If Guild Wars 1 was an MMO, yeah, I’d agree with you. But since even Anet said Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO, I disagree with you.

And there’s TONS of grind in Guild Wars 1….it’s just not gear grind. Anyone who says Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a grind fest wasn’t paying attention.

I think that people these days think that if you have to get new gear its a grind fest but if they added something like titles that have stats attached that you have to grind for 99% of the people kittening about gear would be cool with it lol…..

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Vayne.8563:

If they do exist, you’ll be paying a whole lot of money not to grind, which is where I draw the line.

No, “if,” about it and you are mistaken about the cost. Champions Online. One of the common complaints is that there is so very little reason to subscribe (it is a hybrid business model).

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Got a date on that quote? lol

Interview with Eric Flannum on Kill Ten Rats is here

http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/11/29/gw2-interview-with-arenanets-eric-flannum/

I suggest you all read it.

The company is built around the idea of iteration. They change stuff up when they see things aren’t working. They kill entire ideas. Devs are told not to be too attached to their ideas because they might well change. Anet has been up front about iteration long before launch. They try things they see if they work, they change them. Even major stuff like having energy in the game.

So how does this interview and everything they said about iteration stack up against a single or even a couple of old quotes.

MMOs have changed. They’ve moved the goal post. It was always a possibility because they iterate. They saw something wasn’t working and they changed it.

If they hadn’t changed it when they saw it wasn’t working, they’d have been lying about iteration.

Iteration? Doing a 180 regarding vertical progression…completely changing the fundamental basis upon which you’ve built your game is just “iteration”? So they’re just trying things to see if they work, then? If horizontal progression didn’t work, then how did ArenaNet ever move forward with that notion after it not working for seven years in the original Guild Wars?

They tried cosmetic only rewards and saw that wasn’t working. So yes, the threw it out. It’s the difference between intention and what you can do once the game is out.

I’m happy personally with cosmetic only gear, and in fact, this game isn’t immersive enough for me. It’s not the game I thought it would be. But I understand why it’s not the game I thought it would be. If I had responsibility for a huge and expensive project, I’m not sure what choices I would have made to save it.

The population was going down fast. The game didn’t have the stickiness.

My hope now is that the game will have more stickiness with the achievement point hunt and Anet can stop coming out with new tiers of gear. That would be ideal.

Except they didn’t actually try cosmetic or skill based progression – we are only seeing cosmetic rewards and hints at skill/trait progression now.

They went straight ahead with vertical progression.
Which wasn’t needed- sure the game needed stickiness, that is why they implemented FOtM for those types of players.
That could have been done without the addition of another gear tier since they could simply have added an infusion slot to exotics specifically for Fractals.
Everyone would have been happy with that.

As for iteration, sure- everyone does that to an extent but you need to look at what they said was the core of that process:
Is is fun, does it support all their players and not just a certain percentage.
Does it respect the player?

Clearly in the case of Ascended this is not the case.
So again- what the heck where they thinking?

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1.

To clarify, grind only benefited a very small subset of the total number of skills in the game.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If they do exist, you’ll be paying a whole lot of money not to grind, which is where I draw the line.

No, “if,” about it and you are mistaken about the cost. Champions Online. One of the common complaints is that there is so very little reason to subscribe (it is a hybrid business model).

As yes, I have a friend who plays that. How are those content upgrades coming? My friend has done everything there is in that game bunch of times and keeps repeating content because there’s nothing else to do.

Yes, that’s a good choice. I’m not sure how grindy it is, I’ll have to ask. People who have been through the grind tend to forget about it.

Vayne.8563:

As yes, I have a friend who plays that. How are those content upgrades coming? My friend has done everything there is in that game bunch of times and keeps repeating content because there’s nothing else to do.

Yes, that’s a good choice. I’m not sure how grindy it is, I’ll have to ask. People who have been through the grind tend to forget about it.

Its getting temporary and permanent mini content upgrades, just not full zones and the like. Sounds familiar. GW2’s living story is on a more frequent schedule, but CO has been doing this approach since before GW2 launched.

and there is no grind.

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Namu.5712:

Ballistic.4531:

Namu.5712:

cesmode.4257:

Read the below quote from Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet.

Two things to understand before reading:
-Ascended gear is mower powerful than exotic. To debate otherwise is silly.
-You do not need ascended gear for most content — This is not the point!

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.

Logging in for 5 minutes a day to craft your one time daily materials for 2 weeks is not what i consider
“If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. "

Thats a total of like 70 minutes worth of your time spread over 2 weeks. How does that fall into the category of playing thousands of hours and not realistic to get…..

Just pointing out the obvious.

Because I first need to level up my weapon smith (and w/e other crafting profession I need to level up) to 400, and with current prices, it’s all but cheap. Second, I need to grind to get the mats and craft the exotics at 400 to get to 450. Then I need to grind to get the mats to make t7 mats to go to 500. Then, I need to grind for new mats so I can finally, login once a day for 5 minutes and do what you say.
Yeah, it’s not much time to press craft once or twice per day, but you conveniently forgot all the grind that comes before you are able to press that one button.
Just pointing out the obvious.

Oh sorry add 8 hours to get your crafting up…. -.-
You dont have to grind new mats just play regularly like you normally do. Should have enough mats just from that.

Stop over exaggerating things lol

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Ascended-Crafting-Material-List

I don’t know how you play, but my gameplay doesn’t drop 450 Mithril Ingots in 2 weeks. Actually, I don’t think I would be able to get that many ingots if I collected all of my mithril ore from day one. And that is just one tiny part of it all. Might want to check the full list, before telling me I’m exaggerating.

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

morrolan.9608:

Vorch.2985:

Mike O’Brien:

“We’re left with a balancing act. Some progression is OK, but pushing players onto a gear treadmill isn’t OK and isn’t what the game is about. I don’t think [the ascended gear] invalidates the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.”

Honestly, if WvW didn’t have PvE gear, there would be no issue, imo.

If they had given ascended gear exotic stats with the inclusion of infusions there would be no issue.

To be fair I don’t think Mike O’Brien was lying when he said it just like Colin wasn’t lying about the ‘fun’ element. But the fact is they panicked and have gone back on these statements and their original vision for the game. A vision that was used to market the game. Now they appear to have no overarching vision going forward.

A visions that made GW2 “fastest selling MMO in history” lets not forget that. It sold 3m till january and only 500k afterwards. Introducing gear treadmill did nothing for the game really.

MikaHR.1978:

morrolan.9608:

Vorch.2985:

Mike O’Brien:

“We’re left with a balancing act. Some progression is OK, but pushing players onto a gear treadmill isn’t OK and isn’t what the game is about. I don’t think [the ascended gear] invalidates the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.”

Honestly, if WvW didn’t have PvE gear, there would be no issue, imo.

If they had given ascended gear exotic stats with the inclusion of infusions there would be no issue.

To be fair I don’t think Mike O’Brien was lying when he said it just like Colin wasn’t lying about the ‘fun’ element. But the fact is they panicked and have gone back on these statements and their original vision for the game. A vision that was used to market the game. Now they appear to have no overarching vision going forward.

A visions that made GW2 “fastest selling MMO in history” lets not forget that. It sold 3m till january and only 500k afterwards. Introducing gear treadmill did nothing for the game really.

Don’t most MMOs experience a severe drop off in sales after the first few months ?

cesmode.4257:

However, a lot of people play only an hour or two a night.maybe 3. These people will have a difficult time accumulating the necessary requirements for ascended gear.

I play an average hour a day, maximum, due to having a big house to take care of, one school kid and one toddler (and soon more.)
I was able to get a Legendary weapon with that amount of time.
It didn’t take me 1 month as to some HC players, but I have it.
I don’t see how it impairs anyone with small amount of time, as they have also small amount of time to dungeon run, event run, champ hunt, or whatever.

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Guild Wars 1 had skill grind. Every time a new product game out, there were new skills to acquire. Take the skill Save Yourselves. A perfectly innocuous skill, until you realized that your paragon imbagon build was completely dependent upon it and that you couldn’t get into a DOA group if it wasn’t high enough.

That was a Luxon/Kurzick skill which had 12 ranks. Look up FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki for instructions on how to fast faction farm. People farmed those points forever, to get skills like that up.

The necromancer skill necrosis from NF was also like that. You want that skill more powerful you have to grind Sunspear points. Technobabble, pain inverter, the sin skill which the permasin build depended on, the norn skill ursan, which people wanted you to have rank 8 or higher in their norn title track.

It’s the same thing here. Do you NEED ascended gear to play this game? No. You don’t. And those skills were so kitten powerful they changed the balance of PvE completely. I mean a lot. Far more than ascended gear will affect this game.

But that was okay because that was skill grind, not gear grind.