(edited by MauricioCezar.2673)
No, I am not okay with this.
I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.
I would not take personal story as an indicator of challenge. Casual audience is where the money comes from. Wannabe hardcores of this game are just an unintentional effect.
I wouldn’t have even considered this game if it was a hardcore game. I like being able to take breaks and not feel like I’m missing out. The causalness of the game is what keeps me logging in and is what hooked my wife and many of my friends on the game.
It is fun to go to a world where you can play with friends and do events and not feel like you’re losing out because you like doing world events and not raiding for specific gear.
I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.
They will have to someday. Casuals come and go very fast and their supply is not infinite.
Honestly, I don’t care about the personal story. That said: it’s quite common that the main story of most games is easy. Only the ‘end game’ – which admittedly does not exist here – should provide this. Final Fantasies usually were quite easy to finish, only the hard stuff was locked behind side quests. So I don’t get WPs rant. Maybe make it a tad harder, but that’s it. Besides the season 2 story stuff is significantly harder than the personal story.
The second article talks about something we don’t know yet. The “Challenging Group Content” will be hopefully get a detailed article soon.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
My point got lost, I think I am bad at expressing myself.
I am not asking to it become “Hardcore” (I readed my topic and didn’t find that word anywhere). The problem is how low on quality the game became after the NPE patch. More details are expressed on WP video.
Auto attack to kill mobs, 5 secs to kill a PS boss, poor designed AI, and treating players as kittens locking out content until “They are ready to face it”, and then when you get into the content you are extremely overpowered against the enemys, thats where the problem starts.
The hardcore content is also very desireable, but as own instances (Like dungeons).
I would like to know where the attitude keeps coming from in all these forum threads I read when I have spare time and forget that this place is bad for my health.
‘The attitude’, of course, is that this game should be teeth-grinding, cheek-clenching, blood-curdling, utterly-impossible-without-cybernetic-enhancements, make-Souls-games-look-like-candy ultra mad hard. That missing one dodge, or failing to pull off a perfectly optimized DPS rotation, or bringing non-Berserker gear/traits, should cause you to not only die, but cause your character to delete itself, your game to uninstall itself, your computer to brick itself, and your house to burn down.
Nobody wants to play that game. That’s not what Guild Wars is. Could the game as a whole use some more interesting enemies? Sure. Do those enemies need to be three times stronger than any PC whilst also attacking in groups of 10+? No, stop that. Sure, one or two Challenge Zones or what-have-you, a’la the original game, which push organized player parties a lot harder than the base open-world content would be appreciated. Everybody deserves a slice of the pie, and realistically things like dungeons should be a whole lot more difficult than they are.
The entire game, however, does not need to be an exercise in frustration. This is not Dwarf Fortress. Knock it off.
“DevilLordLaser” – hmmm, okay.
But if you don’t take a minute to understand what the point is, and rant trough thinking I am begging for a hardcore asian content (As your post states), then I will not take any time to explain you the point I tried to make.
I am kinda okay with it.
But GW2 is a pretty standard game, it is not too casual but it is not far to elitist iether.
I kinda compained alittle becouse they made the last Personal Story part solo-able but I do also understand it. I read some people complain about Teq being to hard now but I think it is pretty okay now. I read some people compain about that it is to hard and some people complain that it is too easy. Well I think it is so, GW2 has a standard difficulty where difficulty is driven by the playerbase and Anet is trying their best to satisfy both parties.
I don’t get all the facts but from what I have heard WoW is loosing alot becouse they have made the game way too easy and Wildstar did a crashstart becouse they aimed for Harcore only content. And again in GW2 it feels like both sides have atleast alittle of it all though the elite part is a little umm… dry.
Personally I realy hope that their challangeing content reveal is really really good.
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
What it comes down to, is the game is not engaging especially after the first time.
Engaging is not all about challenge though that is one of the main methods.
Basically the game doesnt have the depth it needs to keep players around.
“DevilLordLaser” – hmmm, okay.
But if you don’t take a minute to understand what the point is, and rant trough thinking I am begging for a hardcore asian content (As your post states), then I will not take any time to explain you the point I tried to make.
For one, people kept responding while I was writing. Not my fault :P
For two: if you mean the fact that ArenaNet keeps having to try and explain things/teach the game in simpler and simpler terms, you can lay that one squarely on the new player base. Apparently this game is overwhelmingly complicated if you’re a new guy with no prior game experience; I’ve encountered plenty of new folks who, through conversations therewith, were basically glassy-eyed and slack-jawed from information overload, even despite the insultingly stripped-down NPE. It boggles my mind, but then I’ve been playing games for as long as I can remember. Apparently a lot of these folks haven’t been, and they need the video-gaming ground rules as much as they need Intro to Guild Wars. Some of them are even in my guild, and got there basically because they were begging for someone, anyone to help them figure out what the hell all this was about and GTFC has an open-door recruitment policy.
Yes, the new-character leveling curve and tutorial elements are just flat-out disrespectful of established players looking to run alts. That is, I imagine, why most of us are choking on lvl20 start-up scrolls and why every game mode except PvE hands out Tomes of Knowledge like Halloween candy – ArenaNet does not expect established players to put up with their NPE. We’re supposed to tome-and-scroll past it, maybe hit a few crafting guides, get to level 80 in no time flat, and go about our business. If we choose not to do that, that’s on us.
Besides. It did just get a whole lot smoother post 6-23. The new NPE seems to be noticeably less insulting than the one we just replaced.
I don’t know, I rememeber when I did my PS first time, and it was a explosion of fun. I loved to try to push myself into a some higher levels PS (I.E : I Was at lv 14, trying a PS lv 22), and it was challenging, and of cousre optional, since I could just go around and level a bit, get a little stronger armor and really feel like I was progresssing to try the new level of content.
NPE seens to have removed this completely.
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
And will not purchase HoT until there’s a sale or something, that’s how boring I find the game now, and HoT doesn’t seem it’s gonna change anything important.
At OP, we are the last of a dying breed, I am afraid to say. I wouldn’t blame it so much on the direction of the game developer, but on the current gaming culture. It has evolved into this need of more mindless, button-mashing, quick & casual game play. IMO, it’s most likely due to mobile gaming and the many casual games we have installed on our smartphones. It’s like the fast-food of the dietary world. I remember with the intro of PC games (yeah – I know – that sounds alot like “back in my day”) we loved challenging games. We loved the complexity of RPGs and all the subtle clues buried within game that you’d spend hours trying to figure out. Now, when something gets challenging most people whine about how hard it is and move onto one of the many, much easier game. PC games really are the hold out, but it’s seeping in more and more. Any game developer has to realize that because that is where their money is at.
While I agree with you, this will remain the current trend for Anet and most game developers because that is what the largest part of their money comes from.
Personally, I’d like to see TTH do an article on what the majority of gamers really want from a game, and to explore the idea of the evolution of the gaming community at large
I like and enjoy gw2 and will definitely be getting HoT, but I do agree that the game needs more challenging content that is not so easy to breeze through. But part of this problem is the fact you have players setting from World boss to World boss, so their mechanics don’t really matter when you have 50 people stacked together. And then in dungeons you have content that has not been updated since the game came out. Then you have people that complain whenever anything changes or forces them to adopt a new strategy, which you’ll always have in any game. Just here the following seems so late because of how used to it people are, that they just accept it as part of the game.
I think I might’ve gotten off point, yes GW2 needs more challenging content, but it doesn’t need to replace the content currently in the game for casuals.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
The funny thing is, the same has been said about WoW again and again in the years
when i played EQ2.
WoW was the epitome for a total easy stupid dumbed down game, and it was
getting dumbed down even more with every expansion.
@OP
I refuse to watch youtube videos just to understand what a post wants to tell me.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
(edited by Beldin.5498)
My take on this is that most of the updates so far have been aimed at new players.
HoT on the other hand is aimed at max level players with more experience. We’ll have to wait and see if they make true on that promise of course.
I’m ok with the game being “casual.” In fact, I love the ability to walk away and then come back and not be left behind by new gear, new level caps, etc etc.
I am not ok with people equating “Casual” to “Easy mode.”
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
This is a complicated topic that imo Ten-Ton Hammer & Wooden Potatoes have oversimplified.
- Should this game make it accessible for gamers new to the genre?
- How would that even be possible?
- Of those possibilities, which should they implement?
- Assuming the game is made more accessible for diverse player types, how should ANet attract and maintain more traditional gamers?
I don’t think there’s an obvious or easy answer to any of the above questions. I think (or at least, I hope) that everyone agrees that the game needs new players to join, in order to keep the game profitable. I think everyone agrees that some of those new players need to be relatively new to the genre (however that might be described). I hope that everyone also agrees that some provision should be made for frequent flyers — longtime fans, traditional gamers, and others who play a lot.
I’ve been very careful to avoid the use of words like “casual” and “hardcore” — I don’t think those words mean the same thing to everyone and people end up arguing about who is (or isn’t) hardcore (or casual) instead of the primary issue, which is still: how does ANet keep thriving? Their answer is clearly by attracting and keeping new players. The concern is from fans and genre veterans that, in doing so, ANet might have damaged (if not ruined) core aspects of the game that make it fun for traditional gamers.
I happen to like what ANet has done in terms of group events and I wish they would do more of this. Tequatl, Dry Top, and Vinewastes event chains are all examples of event chains that challenge the community to figure out how to accomplish something that many call impossible when first released. The community succeeds and then refines the method so that anyone (and everyone) can participate, without risking a ‘win." (Then, of course, the frequent flyers find it boring, because it is “too easy,” but that’s inevitable.)
I have friends that like the simplicity of the revamped mechanics for leveling up, for unlocking and learning skills, and learning how to deal with all the stuff in the game that is new to them.
That leaves a ton of content in between and I agree that ANet doesn’t seem to have given enough thought to that.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
In all honesty I did enjoy doing PS that was several levels above me for the challenge and the removal of this choice isn’t great imo, BUT I can’t say I care enough about it to want any effort put into changing it (again).
I will be perfectly happy if they just put effort into making HoT content as good as possible then in the NEXT expansion (where they add a new race) forcus on the lower level experience (with the new race’s starting zone it would be the best time).
I personally think WP got a little too focused on making his own “don’t die, no maps, no money leveling experience” that he lost sight of how many people would actually benefit and care about the PS being rejuvinated at this time (I may be wrong but I don’t find it a priority).
Leave any overhaul to the low levels for when the new race comes in the next again expansion – HoT should be focused on the level 80 progression.
I don’t mind to have easy personal story. However, I am completely not okay with the casualness in GW2. I am now partially quit, only slight over 2 months of gameplay. This game does not value player’s time.
You don’t have to spend time to get to all contents. I got my exotic gears 5 minutes after I hit level 80. There are no challenging contents. I am not bound to my guild. Guild is only a social platform. You don’t have to login to protect your guild or fight for your guild or whatever. I love WvW. I expect highly engaging large scale warfare and need to commit time to it. However, it is not the case. You zerg everything, running around the WvW map. Fight if the objective is empty, run if it is not. You can play and drop the game anything you like. You can come back after a year, your gear is still the best gear. Nothing matters.
I wouldn’t have even considered this game if it was a hardcore game. I like being able to take breaks and not feel like I’m missing out. The causalness of the game is what keeps me logging in and is what hooked my wife and many of my friends on the game.
It is fun to go to a world where you can play with friends and do events and not feel like you’re losing out because you like doing world events and not raiding for specific gear.
You can still take breaks, people are merely talking about more difficult content/ content with more depth ,it won’t change the game as a whole.
It will still be there in 6 months time if they add it as a permanent piece of content.
I would like to know where the attitude keeps coming from in all these forum threads I read when I have spare time and forget that this place is bad for my health.
‘The attitude’, of course, is that this game should be teeth-grinding, cheek-clenching, blood-curdling, utterly-impossible-without-cybernetic-enhancements, make-Souls-games-look-like-candy ultra mad hard. That missing one dodge, or failing to pull off a perfectly optimized DPS rotation, or bringing non-Berserker gear/traits, should cause you to not only die, but cause your character to delete itself, your game to uninstall itself, your computer to brick itself, and your house to burn down.
Nobody wants to play that game. That’s not what Guild Wars is. Could the game as a whole use some more interesting enemies? Sure. Do those enemies need to be three times stronger than any PC whilst also attacking in groups of 10+? No, stop that. Sure, one or two Challenge Zones or what-have-you, a’la the original game, which push organized player parties a lot harder than the base open-world content would be appreciated. Everybody deserves a slice of the pie, and realistically things like dungeons should be a whole lot more difficult than they are.
The entire game, however, does not need to be an exercise in frustration. This is not Dwarf Fortress. Knock it off.
No one is asking for that, I keep seeing an all or nothing thought process been taken with people opposed to more difficult content.
All the existing zones will still be as easy for goofing off/ relaxing in, people would just like some new zones/content that is at least trying to beat them, they can be inter-spaced with easier pieces of content too. It’s not an either or situation.
It’s a form of progression , I’ve gotten better at the game I am now capable of doing content x, where as before I was only able to get to content y.
@OP
I would love some more difficult content I think part of the issue is that there is no depth in the current systems. Which hopefully (although I’ve seen no evidence so far) will be addressed in HOT.
[RoF] and [BL] guild leader
11x level 80’s 80+ Titles 2600+ skins , still a long way to go.
11x level 80’s 80+ Titles 2600+ skins , still a long way to go.
Hey, remember when they made Teq more “difficult”, and all that was a HP buff. I can only imagine what the community would do if there was truly more difficult content.
I don’t mind to have easy personal story. However, I am completely not okay with the casualness in GW2. I am now partially quit, only slight over 2 months of gameplay. This game does not value player’s time.
You don’t have to spend time to get to all contents. I got my exotic gears 5 minutes after I hit level 80. There are no challenging contents. I am not bound to my guild. Guild is only a social platform. You don’t have to login to protect your guild or fight for your guild or whatever. I love WvW. I expect highly engaging large scale warfare and need to commit time to it. However, it is not the case. You zerg everything, running around the WvW map. Fight if the objective is empty, run if it is not. You can play and drop the game anything you like. You can come back after a year, your gear is still the best gear. Nothing matters.
Well of course your gear will still be the best gear, because one of the founding ideologies of this game was: no gear treadmill. You were supposed to be able to have access to any gear the way you wanted it; dungeons, crafting, pvp etc. You should have seen the uproar that happened when ascended gear was introduced. This game is based on the idea that you should be able to achieve maximum rewards the way you want to. People complain about gear treadmills in other games, but then don’t realize that if you take out the gear treadmill, you get what GW2 has instead. Each path has it’s own pros and cons.
Guild vs. Guild is coming in the next expansion, so you might like that. But yeah, this game isn’t for everyone, no game is or can be.
Tarnished Coast
The fact that 99% of the games content c-an be beaten by auto attacking really sucks. It is a huge waste of potential. GW2 has a good story, good combat, great art…etc, but is being held back by the casual content.
At the same time, I think GW2 has to cater to the casual gamers in order to stay successful. I just wish they would give a little more to the other players.
Sadly, the average gamer is becoming more casual (In terms of demographic) so games are incentivised to create content with a casual approach in mind.
It sucks, but unless the average gamer suddenly becomes more in to hardcore content, it won’t change. GW2 caters to casuals and I doubt even the “challenging group content” will actually be all that challenging.
I love GW2 to death, but it really does need to broaden it’s horizons in terms of making the game engage you more
Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.
Hey, remember when they made Teq more “difficult”, and all that was a HP buff. I can only imagine what the community would do if there was truly more difficult content.
Hey remember when Teq first came out and everyone was up in arms about how impossible the encounter was and that no one could ever complete it unless they were the best of the best? Then it was made easier, and everyone was up in arms about how stupid easy it was and that it wasn’t challenging. Then they made it harder and everyone is up in arms about how impossible it is to complete unless you are the best of the best?
Good times….good times….
(Whether you want to admit it or not, adding HP makes the time limit that much more crucial, thus harder — it’s like giving someone a test with no time limit versus giving someone a test with a time limit — the one with a time limit is much harder-- it adds significant pressure and forces you to properly manage your time, versus being able to take your sweet time on each problem)
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
My take is this.
What do I need other players or a guild for? Sure the usual zerg stuff, but I mean really. What makes one player different from another for me? What reason do I have to befriend one over another?
There are experiences I’ve had in games past where these social interactions actually mattered, where it mattered if you had a friend you could trust. You’d go off adventuring together and you had each other’s backs. Most players you encountered were probably fine and maybe you could increase that friend circle, but there’s also the chance the opposite would be the case.
I know this is the opposite of what Anet is going for here, and I can appreciate that. They want it to ALWAYS be a good thing to see another player. The casual carebear in me likes that ..up to a point. But then there’s the rest of me who has played other games and, quite honestly, has had more interesting and memorable experiences in them than I see ever happening here.
What Anet has done is turn this into a “soft” pudding of a game, where it’s pretty much impossible to have any kind of negative experience. Nothing bad can ever happen, so YAY right? Well here’s the thing though. Without the possibility of bad things happening, the good things have very little gravitas and the whole thing just gets pretty bland.
I speak from experience here. I’ve thrown myself pretty heavily in both directions over many years of gaming. I don’t want something super hardcore where it deletes your character if you die. But I also don’t feel satisfied by a bland experience where nothing memorable can ever happen, where all other players are the same and I have no reason to befriend player-A over player-B. I miss that.
I miss having reasons for social bonds to be relevant, where it’s possible for you to be “known” ..for good reasons or bad, but none the less, somebody worth remembering. Used to be a time in Gaming where social interactions and reputation mattered, and that does more to make a world feel “living” than all the scripted things Anet could ever dream up.
This game needs more freedom in the things we can do, more things we can invest ourselves in and care about. Not merely more events / dungeons to grind 100x, but an ability to actually influence the world and make things more interesting for ourselves and other players.
I don’t want to be a spectator of this so-called world, I want to be a participant. I want to be able to do things that actually make any kind of difference and for other players to matter to me. Not generic-hero #37465827326342, but somebody who’s name I would have reason to remember. Let us be villains or heroes on our own terms and form relationships we’ll care about.
My “best gaming friend” I’ve known since 2001. If we had met in GW2 I would never have had any reason to get to know him. That first game was Diablo II btw. In terms of features and content, that game offered so much less than GW2. But in other ways it also offered so much more. Even Archeage had that going for it. There were too many things about it I didn’t like so I left, but the social aspect was great and made me remember how much I missed it from those old D2 days.
By contrast, GW2 just feels “hollow”. Beautiful but without much substance. Even in the short time I played AA I had some experiences that are more exciting and memorable than anything that’s happened here. And that’s what I play online games for ..for that social experience. If I didn’t want to form lasting memories and relationships, ..if I wanted an experience that felt so solo, I might as well play a single-player game and get better story telling while at it.
Truth is I’m not super social on my own. I’ll admit I can use some prodding. But in a game like this where everybody is generic and there is no cost/benefit to interacting with other players, I just don’t feel that need. But I’ve found that I do appreciate and value when a game does prod you a bit, when it makes it so players (including me) matter.
Guild: Everlasting Sacred Path [ESP]
Server: Tarnished Coast
Server: Tarnished Coast
I don’t mind to have easy personal story. However, I am completely not okay with the casualness in GW2. I am now partially quit, only slight over 2 months of gameplay. This game does not value player’s time.
You don’t have to spend time to get to all contents. I got my exotic gears 5 minutes after I hit level 80. There are no challenging contents. I am not bound to my guild. Guild is only a social platform. You don’t have to login to protect your guild or fight for your guild or whatever. I love WvW. I expect highly engaging large scale warfare and need to commit time to it. However, it is not the case. You zerg everything, running around the WvW map. Fight if the objective is empty, run if it is not. You can play and drop the game anything you like. You can come back after a year, your gear is still the best gear. Nothing matters.
Well of course your gear will still be the best gear, because one of the founding ideologies of this game was: no gear treadmill. You were supposed to be able to have access to any gear the way you wanted it; dungeons, crafting, pvp etc. You should have seen the uproar that happened when ascended gear was introduced. This game is based on the idea that you should be able to achieve maximum rewards the way you want to. People complain about gear treadmills in other games, but then don’t realize that if you take out the gear treadmill, you get what GW2 has instead. Each path has it’s own pros and cons.
Guild vs. Guild is coming in the next expansion, so you might like that. But yeah, this game isn’t for everyone, no game is or can be.
I agree to have no gear treadmill, but I think gears should have more varieties. At least make every gear’s prefix viable and important in the game. Then, I can collect them (I am collecting dungeon sets now simply for cosmetic purpose, Fashion Wars 2?) and play with a different play style with each prefix. Without this, any contents are simply not rewarding. I run dungeons, world bosses, guild missions, and etc., but I don’t even care about the loots I get. I am not excited when I loot boss chests, which are supposed to be “whoa, boss chests, I wonder what I will get.”. I loot, I open TP to see the price of them, I savage things that are not expensive, I sell things that are expensive, deposit all materials, consume all lucky items. Done. I don’t care what I looted, what I got from savaged, how much I got from selling items. Nothing matters.
GvG. I was pretty exciting when I heard about it. Now it is announced, I am not impressed. Fights in arena???? Sounds like kids fight. It will be much better if guilds can invade opponent guild’s hall.
I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.
They will have to someday. Casuals come and go very fast and their supply is not infinite.
It’s a helluva lot higher than non-casuals, who come and go just as fast, despite their protestations to the contrary.
I’m ok with the game being “casual.” In fact, I love the ability to walk away and then come back and not be left behind by new gear, new level caps, etc etc.
I am not ok with people equating “Casual” to “Easy mode.”
Same for me. I like that the game is casual friendly. I play maybe 1hour per day average, which is a rather casual mindset but that time is usually spent in fractals 50.
Not having powercreep with new and better gear every patch is nice. So is being able to just run around and enjoy the world, however casual does not mean dumbed down.
Games can be casual and still have challenging content. GW2 is casual yes, but it seems it’s made to appeal to idi*** who can’t read and are overwhelmed by even the simplest of mechanics.
I’m not saying there is no place in GW2 for noob-friendly content but that seems to be all we ever get and I too, am not okay with that.
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
The funny thing is, the same has been said about WoW again and again in the years
when i played EQ2.WoW was the epitome for a total easy stupid dumbed down game, and it was
getting dumbed down even more with every expansion.@OP
I refuse to watch youtube videos just to understand what a post wants to tell me.
Then I refuse to see in your text any more than just your opinion alone.
Challenging content doesn’t have to equal gear treadmill or missing out on stuff when RL takes you away from the game.
Challenging content simply means content that you can’t autoattack your way through to completion, where you have to look for tells and time your dodges. Where you need to have skill rotations spot on to keep sustain and DPS up. Where you have to juggle aggro in order to keep the party alive if someone stuffs up. Where highly involved theorycrafting for builds is required to push the meta in different ways.
GW2 lacks all of that right now except in its PvP.
Let’s be brutally honest here, GW2’s PvE is a joke.
Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
The personal story is an introduction into the game world and lore. It’s ok that is ir easy.
If I want challenges, I do fractals, LS achievements, gauntlet, wurm fight etc. do we need more of this? Yes, sure. Ever more, because the community hivemind will continue to trivialize content at the pace that it is released.
Does it have to be the personal story? No.
I support Portable Doors: Player Housing anywhere!
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
~ Whips ~ City Minigames ~ City Jumping Puzzles ~
The personal story is an introduction into the game world and lore. It’s ok that is ir easy.
If I want challenges, I do fractals, LS achievements, gauntlet, wurm fight etc. do we need more of this? Yes, sure. Ever more, because the community hivemind will continue to trivialize content at the pace that it is released.
Does it have to be the personal story? No.
Well if it was just the first 20-30 levels I’d be inclined to agree but all the way up to level 80? Characters in Orr should have a firm grasp of the game mechanics and flow of combat at that point.
On another note, bad news: Fractals 50 feel like 20 after the 23/6.
Additionally LS achievements are a one time thing, gauntlet is currently not in the game and the only thing that makes wurm challenging is the doubled hp, not skill required to master the fights mechanics.
I’d also be willing to bet that not a ton of players enjoy having to show up 30 minutes early for a boss fight only for a chance to get on the same map as their raid, only to have a chance at beating the boss, only to have a chance to actually loot something of value. RNG over RNG over RNG :/
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
And will not purchase HoT until there’s a sale or something, that’s how boring I find the game now, and HoT doesn’t seem it’s gonna change anything important.
Haven’t played WoD yet, I take it.
The game needs more challenging content but it is a casual mmo game so if your not interested in playing the game then maybe you need something more akin to wildstar or WoD if you like grinding.
Honestly, that “hardcore” thing, is the worst part about any mmo community, you call casuals downright unpleasable but the “elite” are the worst.
If content doesnt appeal to them in some way thats so hard that only a minority can achieve it at the expense of the rest of your money making base then apparently that content is bad.
Anyone, with the logic, that content has to be so challenging that its only available exclusivly to guilds/groups of people at a time has obviously not realized at this point that GW1 and GW2 will “never” be about group content, ever.
GW1 was entirley soloable even if it was next to impossible to do, but it was, dooable.
Likewise, GW2, is intended to be played generally by the soloist which is why personal story appeals to people who play solo.
Now I admit, fights like the shadow of the dragon in Season 2 (episode 4 version not episode 8 ) were pretty challenging and fun, but admittingly lacked consequence, it was possible to just mass respawn every time I died till the guy fell and even I admit its almost too easy when something like that happens.
However.
This game was “made” for casuals, it was listed during its announcement as the “casual” MMO, for a reason.
If you dont “like” that then its not “for” you and the design was never “made” with you in mind.
You might say that feels exclusive too, denying hardcores their 1% hard content that only they can acheive.
But there are MMO’s out there “for” your demographic that have small but thriving communities of people of “your” group type.
You literally dont belong here, if your interest is exclusivity over inclusivity.
You literally have no idea why exclusive content is bad for an MMO as a whole if you dont realize what kind of impact it has on the over-all community and the amount of damage it causes between the casual demographic and the hardcores creating a pointless division that causes more trouble than good.
Guild wars 2 is one of the most social mmo’s out there despite the fact that the content is almsot laughably easy, and thats a “good” thing.
You add content thats so challening that only a tiny demographic will ever bother playing it, you already lost the game of community because you obviously dont care for it over self-inflated ego.
And nobody will care for your ego, if nobody plays.
Nobody wins, if hardcore content becomes the norm, Warlords of Draenor, prooved that.
As did 3.5 million people who quit after thinking it’d be the game for them once more.
Im not saying hardcore content cant exist, im saying it needs to be mediated to the point it can be “doable” by people that want to be amoung the hardcore.
(edited by CaptainVanguard.4925)
I’m ok with the game being “casual.” In fact, I love the ability to walk away and then come back and not be left behind by new gear, new level caps, etc etc.
I am not ok with people equating “Casual” to “Easy mode.”
Same for me. I like that the game is casual friendly. I play maybe 1hour per day average, which is a rather casual mindset but that time is usually spent in fractals 50.
Not having powercreep with new and better gear every patch is nice. So is being able to just run around and enjoy the world, however casual does not mean dumbed down.
Games can be casual and still have challenging content. GW2 is casual yes, but it seems it’s made to appeal to idi*** who can’t read and are overwhelmed by even the simplest of mechanics.
I’m not saying there is no place in GW2 for noob-friendly content but that seems to be all we ever get and I too, am not okay with that.
I agree with you.
My biggest concern with “challenging content” is that people seem to be under the impression that this can only be achieved by making it instanced content that requires ‘x’ number of bodies, and that’s entirely not true.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
To each their own. I recently tried WoW again and found it mindnumbingly boring, but I’m relatively entertained by GW2.
Edit: I should mention that I didn’t try WoD.
(edited by tairneanach.8427)
Hey, remember when they made Teq more “difficult”, and all that was a HP buff. I can only imagine what the community would do if there was truly more difficult content.
Hey remember when Teq first came out and everyone was up in arms about how impossible the encounter was and that no one could ever complete it unless they were the best of the best? Then it was made easier, and everyone was up in arms about how stupid easy it was and that it wasn’t challenging. Then they made it harder and everyone is up in arms about how impossible it is to complete unless you are the best of the best?
Good times….good times….
(Whether you want to admit it or not, adding HP makes the time limit that much more crucial, thus harder — it’s like giving someone a test with no time limit versus giving someone a test with a time limit — the one with a time limit is much harder-- it adds significant pressure and forces you to properly manage your time, versus being able to take your sweet time on each problem)
Ah, well, until we have more people that see a spike in difficulty as a challenge to overcome and not something to be fixed, we may have more of such content. The new teq was definitely shocking and our organized run finished it with a mere 2 minutes left but then again I was like “oh dear, we could have failed!” which is something that rarely happens in open world and it was slightly more exciting as I had to screw around less.
Honestly, I think Teq is a great fight. Something like Triple Wurm is just too attention demanding and complicated for casuals like myself but it probably does have a place for more hardcore players.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Hey, remember when they made Teq more “difficult”, and all that was a HP buff. I can only imagine what the community would do if there was truly more difficult content.
This is exactly my thoughts. I suspect that a lot of people who complain about the Teq changes also complain that there’s no “hardcore content”.
Yes, the game is certainly dumbing down, and PvE is far too easy to play through, in particular with regards to the Personal Story. I would tender a couple of additions to the system:
When a new player begins the game they can only play through the game with the NPE turned on. After their first character reaches L80, new alts will have the NPE turned on by default, however, further options will be unlocked. During character creation the player can then choose from a few new options.
[ ] New Player Experience (Default)
[ ] Experienced Mode (Returns the leveling experience and rewards to pre-NPE)
[ ] Veteran Mode (Experienced Mode + the ability to play through story missions at any level)
[ ] Iron Man Mode (Veteran Mode + Permadeath on defeat. Speak to an NPC to claim a bag of your dead character’s gear)
[ ] Non Waypointing (Disables waypoints for your character – they must now walk everywhere, or use Asura Gates)
I remain hopeful that foes in the new L80 zones will provide more of a challenge than foes in the rest of Tyria. We’ve already seen an improvement with the Silverwastes Mordrem monsters which require players to employ different tactics if they want to defeat them easier; Immobilize/Interrupts for Vile Thrashers and Thrashers, Condi or Hybrid builds for Husks, awareness of character orientation when fighting Wolves. I hope to see this go a bit further in Heart of Thorns.
I think it might be inevitable to see HoT monsters become “too easy” over time, as players get more used to them, though. I think this is the case for any content in any area of the game. Does anyone remember the whining about how much crowd control the risen monsters had in Orr shortly after release? Noone bats an eyelid now. You know when to dodge, when to block, how to run through areas.
Am I OK with it? Well I’m not OK with existing content being made easier, and the Personal Story is now exactly that. The bunching up of story sections into 10-level blocks of story is fine, but the difficulty needs to be maintained. I’m trying leveling a new alt from zero, without scrolls or tomes to see how the game has changed. Now I’m Level 45, and have 2 full specialisation trees with grandmasters…this alone makes a massive difference, and as was pointed out in WP’s video, you don’t even need to buy gear as you run through the game…what you drop, or receive as a reward, is generally good enough.
Triple Wurm is the worst impliamented group content in the game because it simply cant be done without a guild or multiple guilds organizing in the same instance at the same time.
Your asking for rocket science with content like this and it just isnt do-able by the majority of people.
People like content that requires a focus, Teq was a focus, so is the Vinewrath.
Granted, the latter is laughably easy almost, too easy, but its still challenging enough that it can have consequences for messing up or getting lazy.
Teq however does at least require tactics, but the good thing is the area required to do them isnt too sparce that only a minority of people can be there for that particular fight.
Thats where the wurm fails, you literally cant do it because you need impossible levels of organization that cant be achieved with phasing, availability and constant tactics understanding of new players.
You need content to be doable but “dumb” enough that people can learn it, as to a challenge, add an optional hardmode like Ulduar then you can have your hardcore experience.
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
To each their own. I recently tried WoW again and found it mindnumbingly boring, but I’m relatively entertained by GW2.
I agree, everyone with his opinion, but I do miss WoW’s content. That feeling of character progression and actually having a goal for your actions, even after max level is reached.
Maybe masteries will add that to GW2, but as it stands now, tbh I’m tired of salvaging a bazillion pieces of green gear every day or doing events to get flooded in useless karma, if you know what i mean.
To sum up my experience and opinion: after about 2 years of GW2 I’m actually going back to WoW.
To each their own. I recently tried WoW again and found it mindnumbingly boring, but I’m relatively entertained by GW2.
I agree, everyone with his opinion, but I do miss WoW’s content. That feeling of character progression and actually having a goal for your actions, even after max level is reached.
Maybe masteries will add that to GW2, but as it stands now, tbh I’m tired of salvaging a bazillion pieces of green gear every day or doing events to get flooded in useless karma, if you know what i mean.
I guess you’re talking about raiding for equipment, aren’t you? As I see it, that’s not really content. It’s the same as doing dungeons and fractals here, just with a shiny carrot at the end. And once you’ve gotten the gear, you’re in the same place as you are in GW2 until the next expansion comes out.
I think that’s a core thing with MMORPGs. They’re supposed to keep players interested, but they can’t deliver enough content to do so in a reasonable amount of time. I’m amazed that my partner’s still playing WoW – she doesn’t even do any of the endgame content. She just relaxes by doing some dailies and looking for mounts and pets.
In the case of the Personal Story there really is no reason that you could not have both. The personal story is instanced content. So the start of each instance you could be presented with the choice of either a “Normal” PS instance or a “Hard” PS instance. The “Hard” version could have a tweaked up AI and give the mobs more health, etc. – whatever is appropriate.
Nerf Shadow Arts condition cleanse. Gut the
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
i have to agree with wooden potatoes, and he had an excellent example at that….
before guildwars came out, i used to take iq tests for fun, qualified for mensa, studying builds in gw1 was a hoot, i spent almost as much time on the wiki designing builds as I did testing them in pvp, now gw2 makes me feel like i’m playing dodgeball with chess pieces.
Guildwars most certainly feels like it went from a hard core strategic war strategy game to teletubbies online. http://www.arts-wallpapers.com/childrens_art_wallpapers/Teletubbies/01/Teletubbies.jpg <—-the new lions arch.
seriously anet, if you want to cater to a younger demographics, dont ruin what sold you 6 million copies ….start a g rated annex version of the game and stop this 1 click “you won, yay!!” madness!!
and don’t go the extreme insta-kill opposite like you usually do in response, like you just did with tequatl, yall need to take some yoga or something to find a happy balance!
IBM PC XT 4.77mhz w/turbo oc@ 8mhz 640kb windows 3.1 hayes 56k seagate 20 meg HD mda@720x350 pixels
(edited by Ricky.4706)
I guess you’re talking about raiding for equipment, aren’t you? As I see it, that’s not really content. It’s the same as doing dungeons and fractals here, just with a shiny carrot at the end. And once you’ve gotten the gear, you’re in the same place as you are in GW2 until the next expansion comes out.
I think that’s a core thing with MMORPGs. They’re supposed to keep players interested, but they can’t deliver enough content to do so in a reasonable amount of time. I’m amazed that my partner’s still playing WoW – she doesn’t even do any of the endgame content. She just relaxes by doing some dailies and looking for mounts and pets.
Mainly raid gear and content yes, but even while questing. Like WP mentioned in the video, you can level 1-80 in starter gear without being challenged in GW2, which you can’t really do in WoW.
And yes, in all MMOs you will eventually get gear capped, but for WoW that will take a while, so you have months of goals to accomplish. And after those few months WoW comes with a new patch that adds new content including a new raid tier, and so you start all over.
And yes, it’s the infamous gear treadmill, but the thing is that gear treadmill actually gives you some goals to accomplish and makes you feel your character is progressing.
In GW2 you get everything with gold. You can be full ascended and have a legendary in 30 mins if you have enough gold.
I asked a friend the other days,
“Why are you doing dungeons?”
- “For the gold”
“What you need the gold for?”
- “Idk just to have more”
I’m not praising WoW, it’s far from a perfect game, but GW2’s lack of progression and meaningful content makes me want to go back to WoW.
The only content I really enjoyed in GW2 in all these years was Liadri and getting the Light in the Darkness achievement.
Triple Wurm is the worst impliamented group content in the game because it simply cant be done without a guild or multiple guilds organizing in the same instance at the same time.
Your asking for rocket science with content like this and it just isnt do-able by the majority of people.
People like content that requires a focus, Teq was a focus, so is the Vinewrath.
Granted, the latter is laughably easy almost, too easy, but its still challenging enough that it can have consequences for messing up or getting lazy.
Teq however does at least require tactics, but the good thing is the area required to do them isnt too sparce that only a minority of people can be there for that particular fight.
Thats where the wurm fails, you literally cant do it because you need impossible levels of organization that cant be achieved with phasing, availability and constant tactics understanding of new players.
You need content to be doable but “dumb” enough that people can learn it, as to a challenge, add an optional hardmode like Ulduar then you can have your hardcore experience.
What are you on about? Triple trouble is a fairly good piece of content, that is regularly done, requiring organization is not a big deal, it’s why guilds exist. It’s still on the pretty relaxed side of things too. If you are unwilling to put even basic effort into your gameplay why should the game cater exclusively to you?
Challenging to me is something that an elite guild group of able bodied 20-40 year olds on team speak with ideal composition, proper builds/gear/food/buffs and a good knowledge of their own group and the content ahead, still stands a reasonable chance of failing.
Yes that’s going to be impossible to a lot of people but that’s how challenging works, you don’t pick the least able player and stop when he feels challenged, you take the top players and stop when there’s a piece of content even they can no longer do.
[RoF] and [BL] guild leader
11x level 80’s 80+ Titles 2600+ skins , still a long way to go.
11x level 80’s 80+ Titles 2600+ skins , still a long way to go.
[quote]
80s(name-race/class):Jermoe Morrow(main) – H/Ra
Blue Dorito-S/Re|Transitor-S/En |Tina Feyspirit-N/M|
Bmoe-A/T|Peter Whatsherface-H/G|Acolyte Rin-H/N
Blue Dorito-S/Re|Transitor-S/En |Tina Feyspirit-N/M|
Bmoe-A/T|Peter Whatsherface-H/G|Acolyte Rin-H/N