Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t skip anything. I have 15,000 hours in Guild Wars 1, actively went after the lucky title and still don’t have it.

How many hours you got in GW is irrelevant. If all you tried was farm rings during events, while ignoring double week pts and other ways of obtaining the pts then you just made things last longer that necessary. And obv it’s grind, but it’s no where near the level and impact of, let’s say, ascended.

Vayne.8563:

Everyone that I ever played Guild Wars 1 with spoke about how grindy certain titles were including that. I think you’re deliberately trying to mislead people.

Giving my own experience equals deliberately misleading ppl? The entire forum is one big misleading device in that case, and you’re no exception to that.
I simply don’t think you exhausted all options but just went for the simplest and the most boring of them.

Vayne.8563:

Even people who don’t generally agree with me will tell you the lucky title was grindy as hell. Nor have I met anyone who didn’t think the Luxon/Kurzick titles were grindy as hell.

Idk about you, but I got r12 kurzick simply by playing AB. Not to mention they substantially buffed the faction gain in said format, albeit that ought being done much sooner.

Vayne.8563:

You can insist, you can quote, you can try anything you want, but those that actually played Guild Wars 1 know the truth.

Yea, which is why I wonder what were YOU playing, or smoking while playing.

Vayne.8563:

I won’t answer you any more on this issue, because I’ve already proven it with links to the wiki.

Good for you. I stand with what I said about wiki, and it’s up to the reader to decide for themselves, as you like saying. Unlike you, I still play the game, and apparently more of it too compared to your zone of activity.

serenke.4806:

The point being that you don’t have to grind for anything, just do whichever part of the game you like and you will get to your goal without pressure or feeling bored.

Now if you absolutely have to have something really quickly (not sure for what you would need ascended/legendary immediately), then of course there is an optimal method and you have to do it that way. But that’s your choice and you cannot cry “grindy” if you chose the grind.

Its everyone’s choice to play the game too. Developers sometimes …lets say misplace their understanding of these things.

If they kitten off too many people and make it too unreasonable for too many to get what they want, fewer people will elect to give them money.

I imagine they have a scary time trying to figure out where the moving goalposts are between making things too easy to get and losing people to boredom and making things too obnoxious/difficult/tedious to get and losing revenue courtesy of alienation.

I don’t envy them that two-headed serpent of a matter at all.

This thread is like a giant pokemon battle, every battle ending in a rematch with the same people.

Go get em, Lazaarizard!

Lazaarizard uses Encore!

Lazaar.9123:

This thread is like a giant pokemon battle, every battle ending in a rematch with the same people.

You’ve got to grind them all.

This thread should clearly be closed/locked as Colin has already stated (numerous times) that GW2 is not a grindy game. We all know he is a god in the GW-verse, so his word is above reproach, speculation or contradiction. Go back to your sad, grindy lives players!

Back to work, scum!

naiasonod.9265:

Uh huh. Is ‘every area of the game’ fractals by chance? Because if you do anything outside of fractals? Yeah, you’re both wrong and hilarious. In factals, sure.

Running around out in the world? Doing world bosses? Killing mobs? Doing dungeons?

NNNNNNNNOPE, swing and a miss. You’re either mistaken in what you mean by ‘every area of the game’ or you’re lying through your digital teeth.

Uuuh…
Not the person you’re trying to make fun of, but I got 3 Ascended armor pieces so far, and 2 Ascended weapons. 2 of the armor chests were random drops IIRC, 1 was from Triple-Worm, weapons were from Tequatl and… I think the other one was a random drop from another world boss ,but not entirely sure any more.

Carighan.6758:

naiasonod.9265:

Uh huh. Is ‘every area of the game’ fractals by chance? Because if you do anything outside of fractals? Yeah, you’re both wrong and hilarious. In factals, sure.

Running around out in the world? Doing world bosses? Killing mobs? Doing dungeons?

NNNNNNNNOPE, swing and a miss. You’re either mistaken in what you mean by ‘every area of the game’ or you’re lying through your digital teeth.

Uuuh…
Not the person you’re trying to make fun of, but I got 3 Ascended armor pieces so far, and 2 Ascended weapons. 2 of the armor chests were random drops IIRC, 1 was from Triple-Worm, weapons were from Tequatl and… I think the other one was a random drop from another world boss ,but not entirely sure any more.

Well heck, tell us the secret. I and many I know would dearly love to see even one such drop, and I run with some folks that run some serious content. Think ‘Guild of 315 very active people with 2.2m influence and I’ve never seen us with less than 250/250 guild merits’ active. Pretty active.

We bow before your unimaginable luck. Teach us your ways.

serenke.4806:

naiasonod.9265:

serenke.4806:

naiasonod.9265:

serenke.4806:

The whole problem is non-existent, since you get ascended chests drop in every area of the game, you are not required to craft it.

You’ll probably win the Powerball jackpot before you get one of those. Good luck.

Thanks, i’ve equipped two characters with those and have additional 2 dozen sitting in my bank.

Uh huh. Is ‘every area of the game’ fractals by chance? Because if you do anything outside of fractals? Yeah, you’re both wrong and hilarious. In factals, sure.

Running around out in the world? Doing world bosses? Killing mobs? Doing dungeons?

NNNNNNNNOPE, swing and a miss. You’re either mistaken in what you mean by ‘every area of the game’ or you’re lying through your digital teeth.

By every area of the game i mean the weapon chests i got from pvp, the armor chests i got in wvw and sure also in pve.

you are an outlier. most people havent got 3 ascended boxes who played the game for 3000k+ hours.

sorry but you will have to ignore your experience in talks of normal experiences of players, much like the person with the 240 IQ cant talk use his experience as a basis for how easy a math question is.

Carighan.6758:

naiasonod.9265:

Uh huh. Is ‘every area of the game’ fractals by chance? Because if you do anything outside of fractals? Yeah, you’re both wrong and hilarious. In factals, sure.

Running around out in the world? Doing world bosses? Killing mobs? Doing dungeons?

NNNNNNNNOPE, swing and a miss. You’re either mistaken in what you mean by ‘every area of the game’ or you’re lying through your digital teeth.

Uuuh…
Not the person you’re trying to make fun of, but I got 3 Ascended armor pieces so far, and 2 Ascended weapons. 2 of the armor chests were random drops IIRC, 1 was from Triple-Worm, weapons were from Tequatl and… I think the other one was a random drop from another world boss ,but not entirely sure any more.

you are lucky but not insanely so, however even your luckyness pales in comparison to the guy with 2 fully equipped charachters and 24 ascended boxes sitting in his bank. some one recently opened 10,000+ bags, and got 1 ascended box, just to give you an idea how unlikely it can be.

naiasonod.9265:

Well heck, tell us the secret. I and many I know would dearly love to see even one such drop, and I run with some folks that run some serious content. Think ‘Guild of 315 very active people with 2.2m influence and I’ve never seen us with less than 250/250 guild merits’ active. Pretty active.

We bow before your unimaginable luck. Teach us your ways.

I believe you’ll find its not so much luck but one of these; VISA / Master Card / American Express, I’ll admit using my credit card quite a few times not for nice things in the cash shop but Gems -> Gold = basic materials just to rank up my crafting to get exotic, and that is after leveling all 7 classes to 80, salvaging everything from white -> gold, and using crafting boosters. (and no I wasn’t stupid enough to craft things that gave no xp, except when I needed to make a new discovery)

p.s my life is cursed in real life anyway, so this wasn’t unexpected.

Devata.6589:

That same vocal minority that did say people where leveling but they were wrong, they were just a vocal minority (until Anet came with the statement they where losing to many people even before they where max level).

‘The vocal minority’ statement is just as empty as the ‘you don’t know the real numbers so you can’t say anything about this’ or the ‘this is nor your game, go play another game’ arguments.

The majority of players who even came to GW2 seemed to have already left. How about that? Maybe that ‘vocal minority’ is all that is left of them and there suggestions might be the solution to bring that majority back.

The company gave us a statement that said something : WE LET SOME PPL PLAY OUR GAME AT BETA (5-10k ppl sample-played mmo for the first time ) . PPL DIDNT UNDERSTAND HOW THE DYNAMIC WORDS WORKED OR WHERE TO GO .THEY KEPT THOSE DATA IT IN THEIR BACKLOG . WHEN THEY HAD TO RELEASE IN CHINA , IN ORDER TO PREVENT THE SAME MISTAKES AND BECAUSE GENERAL THE CHINESE MARKET WANTS SOME GUIDNESS THEY HAD TO MAKE SOME AJUSTMENTS TO THEM

And they have already told us that have plans to evovle/upgrade/fix it in the future .

(When they rleased in China , they released 14 servers + 9 others after 3 days and some others later on i think .
They expected to have lets say 10 million players in the first 3 months . They didnt calculate right , and some servers where stack , while some others where low .
And rather than w8ing an other 4 months , for those Low servers to bloom (you know that when they release the game in the EU-NA , they didnt sold the 3,5 m copies at the first day) , they decided to merge some server , because the majority of the poupaltion love the WvWvW (when they where beta testing in china , they said that they are a humogous numbers of guilds , with trementous amount of ppl that love to play WvWvW .)
That why the said something like : OUR EXPECTATIONS DIDNT COME UP AS WE THOUGHT)

And again how many are the majority ?
At the NA servers , ther are 3 servers atm that are full and a third 1 (called Dragon@@@something that goes from very high to full)
So the servers are not a static thing from the launch as the vocal minority ppl think , but atleast represent ppl that have logged in once per 1 week

They should listen each person opinion , even those with intuition or the vocal minority .
But those ppl with the intuition must use that passve skill to help the game by giving ideas .
Those ppl should never insist over and over again , about what is right .
In their head , their ideas sound fabulous but there are always flaws .
So they must expect others to find those flaws and try to find a middle ground , or if they are truly perfect/booletproof ideas , it will be surely be used ingame .

Your flaw about the removal of the gem store and only offering x-pack every 1 year , might trigger a backlash , where the company wont make enought revenue and has Content Updates every 2-3 months , rather than 2 weeks . That will surely will kitten ppl .

You can try to ask Blizzard , when they reopen the ’’Titan’’ project again at the future , to create your perfect ‘’financial package’’ , or you can try too with WoW atm

Devata.6589:

‘The vocal minority’ statement is just as empty as the ‘you don’t know the real numbers so you can’t say anything about this’ or the ‘this is nor your game, go play another game’ arguments.

If you as a collector , you are ok with paying 15 euros per months + you are FORCED TO PAY WITH REAL MONEY for the extra things for the cash shop (rather than creating a RIOT on their forums too) i dont know what to say …

I have expected you for 9 hours , why so late
I wanted to offer you a corraperation to open a ’’Oracle’’ , for us both the Intuition guys :P

aerial.7021:

I believe you’ll find its not so much luck but one of these; VISA / Master Card / American Express, I’ll admit using my credit card quite a few times not for nice things in the cash shop but Gems -> Gold = basic materials just to rank up my crafting to get exotic, and that is after leveling all 7 classes to 80, salvaging everything from white -> gold, and using crafting boosters. (and no I wasn’t stupid enough to craft things that gave no xp, except when I needed to make a new discovery)

No I was talking dropped ascended items, not crafted ones.
I have some crafted ascended weapons on my Mesmer and a rifle on my Engi, but those are all done with ingame materials (and ~100g total, I tend to farm the stuff instead of buying it). Never touched armor, too small of an upgrade to care. :P

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bernie.8674:

A MMO is not a source of accomplishment; it’s a source of entertainment. Accomplishments happen in the real world, not in an online one. After I’ve spent my day accomplishing things I like to come home and escape to an online world for a couple of hours. I don’t want to spend those hours engaging in simulated commutes or artificial drudgery. I’ve gotten plenty of that already in real life. Demanding that entertainment be entertaining isn’t “lazy” or “entitled.”

In an ideal world, that would be true. However, in the real world, what’s so is that some players demand that MMO’s provide that entertainment over the course of many thousands of hours of game time.

Maybe that’s your world, but I speak from experience when I say that most of those players are disabused of that notion when mommy and daddy quit paying for their schooling and/or housing. That’s the real world that I’ve experienced. The most hardcore players I knew in college barely even play anymore, if they play at all. Besides, those players have plenty of other games to play. The Guild Wars franchise has always been targeted at a more casual audience. A couple of hours a day is pretty much all that my guild mates and I generally tolerate. Players who genuinely find joy in performing the same repetitive tasks day in and day out should spend a little time away from the keyboard to regain perspective. I want to spend my time in game doing stuff, not re-enacting my real life experiences.

Bernie.8674:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bernie.8674:

A MMO is not a source of accomplishment; it’s a source of entertainment. Accomplishments happen in the real world, not in an online one. After I’ve spent my day accomplishing things I like to come home and escape to an online world for a couple of hours. I don’t want to spend those hours engaging in simulated commutes or artificial drudgery. I’ve gotten plenty of that already in real life. Demanding that entertainment be entertaining isn’t “lazy” or “entitled.”

In an ideal world, that would be true. However, in the real world, what’s so is that some players demand that MMO’s provide that entertainment over the course of many thousands of hours of game time.

Maybe that’s your world, but I speak from experience when I say that most of those players are disabused of that notion when mommy and daddy quit paying for their schooling and/or housing. That’s the real world that I’ve experienced. The most hardcore players I knew in college barely even play anymore, if they play at all. Besides, those players have plenty of other games to play. The Guild Wars franchise has always been targeted at a more casual audience. A couple of hours a day is pretty much all that my guild mates and I generally tolerate. Players who genuinely find joy in performing the same repetitive tasks day in and day out should spend a little time away from the keyboard to regain perspective. I want to spend my time in game doing stuff, not re-enacting my real life experiences.

Life is always so black and white when you’re young. Then there’s the other side of it. People who work so hard in life, or worked hard for so long, they don’t really want to do stuff at all. Not in the sense of challenging content.

Some of us are older and tired, and sore and we just want some down time exploring a beautiful world. Maybe our memories aren’t so sharp that we remember every thing we did and so it’s not as repetitive. Maybe we’re looking at something other than mechanics and it really is different for us often enough.

There are plenty of people who play for hours a day and don’t get bored because they mix stuff up. Sure I could play (and have played) other games. But the bottom line is, your post is needlessly judgemental, because some people experience things differently than you do.

I have this experience with all my friends from college. Well my kids are past college by some years now and stuff they used to say like that has changed over years. They used to talk just like you.

Kids just out of college isn’t the whole world and different people do enjoy different things. Are they more casual. Depends on how you find casual. They certainly like doing different things than you do.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Grind?

Go play Pac Man, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong, or pretty much any of the video games that introduced the world to computer gaming. That is what grind is.

If you feel you are being forced to grind in this game.. You are either looking for grind, or just outright doing it wrong. With so much to do, I see this argument as insane.

I grind when I want. I “non-grind” when I want.

Like life, the right mantra may be:

“Play smarter, not harder.”

6300 hours
7 world completions
13 legendaries
3 ascended armor sers
one 30g random drop precursor (rage)

And I keep having fun every day by mixing it up.

6300 hours. That’s 262.5 days. And the game has only been out for about 890 days. You have literally spent over a quarter of your life playing this game since it came out. I don’t think your perspective is typical. I’m glad you enjoy the game, but you can’t seriously expect everyone else to be as devoted to it as you are.

Bernie.8674:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Grind?

Go play Pac Man, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong, or pretty much any of the video games that introduced the world to computer gaming. That is what grind is.

If you feel you are being forced to grind in this game.. You are either looking for grind, or just outright doing it wrong. With so much to do, I see this argument as insane.

I grind when I want. I “non-grind” when I want.

Like life, the right mantra may be:

“Play smarter, not harder.”

6300 hours
7 world completions
13 legendaries
3 ascended armor sers
one 30g random drop precursor (rage)

And I keep having fun every day by mixing it up.

6300 hours. That’s 262.5 days. And the game has only been out for about 890 days. You have literally spent over a quarter of your life playing this game since it came out. I don’t think your perspective is typical. I’m glad you enjoy the game, but you can’t seriously expect everyone else to be as devoted to it as you are.

The same might be said for people who post on forums. I’m pretty sure people who post regularly on forums have hundreds of hours on forums. It makes them a pretty small percentage of the population in general. Their perspectives are probably not typical, because they think more about their gaming experience than a lot of people who just log in and run around.

Not everyone is devoted to this game as anyone. Not everyone who posts on the forums that has problems with grind will represent the average person. Does the average player care about ascended gear at all? Who knows.

That’s the problem really. We don’t know what percentage of the players bothered to make ascended gear at all, or what percentage of those players feel they need it. If you don’t need ascended gear then the grind is for cosmetics.

One women in my guild farms tons of black lion keys. That’s 50% of her game time. That’s what she likes. She finds it relaxing. She doesn’t see it as grinding. To me, that would be the most boring thing imaginable.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Is gold a grind? I find it hard to say yes when two hours a day will net me roughly 5g without sticking my head into dungeons. If I did dungeons or spent longer, probably could up that to 20g. And I’ll lay out exactly how I do the 5g to anyone who asks – it’s not a secret, it’s not hard, it’s just working with what you have to do.

How are you getting 5g in two hours? I might get that on guild mission nights, by doing dungeons, or by engaging in concerted farming, but I’ve never gotten anywhere near that by playing casually the way you claim. I must be playing wrong. I’m stagnant somewhere between 20 and 25 gold right now.

naiasonod.9265:

II’m pretty sure my first 80 got there with roughly 6 gold to his name, and I promptly spent all of it crafting my exotic heavy armor.

That must have been nice. The way mat costs are these days that much would buy you about 2.5 inscriptions.

Bernie.8674:

naiasonod.9265:

II’m pretty sure my first 80 got there with roughly 6 gold to his name, and I promptly spent all of it crafting my exotic heavy armor.

That must have been nice. The way mat costs are these days that much would buy you about 2.5 inscriptions.

It was about the same effective cost as it is now, really. There was just less currency in circulation, and frankly, not as many ways to generate more of it. Throwing 30g at something now feels about like throwing 6g at something near launch did, for a hipshot comparison of how the inflation feels to me.

/shrug

Just my mileage, that.

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for hours a day and don’t get bored because they mix stuff up. Sure I could play (and have played) other games. But the bottom line is, your post is needlessly judgemental, because some people experience things differently than you do.

The whole point that I apparently failed to make is that everyone experiences things differently. Perhaps my post was colored by a previous post that I had recently visited where someone was calling for waypoints to be abolished. Maybe I should have posted these thoughts in that thread instead. I could see how, if I was bored and retired, I would want more grind in my game. However, most of us are not retired, and many of us are past college. I’m actually about 20 years past college, and I recently reached that phase of my life where my kids no longer demand so much attention. Heck, I practically have to force it on them these days. But I digress. I’m not opposed to grinds for new skins, minis, and hats. What I don’t like having to grind for is end game gear. Some argue that you don’t have to grind for end game gear because you can redefine your end game to be champion trains or silverwastes farming. Based on statements they made in the past, I don’t think ArenaNet ever intended for players to have to redefine their end game to avoid a grind. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what we’re having to do right now.

Bernie.8674:

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for hours a day and don’t get bored because they mix stuff up. Sure I could play (and have played) other games. But the bottom line is, your post is needlessly judgemental, because some people experience things differently than you do.

The whole point that I apparently failed to make is that everyone experiences things differently. Perhaps my post was colored by a previous post that I had recently visited where someone was calling for waypoints to be abolished. Maybe I should have posted these thoughts in that thread instead. I could see how, if I was bored and retired, I would want more grind in my game. However, most of us are not retired, and many of us are past college. I’m actually about 20 years past college, and I recently reached that phase of my life where my kids no longer demand so much attention. Heck, I practically have to force it on them these days. But I digress. I’m not opposed to grinds for new skins, minis, and hats. What I don’t like having to grind for is end game gear. Some argue that you don’t have to grind for end game gear because you can redefine your end game to be champion trains or silverwastes farming. Based on statements they made in the past, I don’t think ArenaNet ever intended for players to have to redefine their end game to avoid a grind. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what we’re having to do right now.

The argument here is grind for end game gear. Do you mean BIS gear? They’re not necessarily the same thing.

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Serophous.9085:

Bernie.8674:

Serophous.9085:

GW1 had plenty of grind with its faction grind and grinding for ectos. Then grinding the same mob over and over again for its rare drop.

But there were also many title tracks that were not so grindy. Legendary Vanquisher, for example. Also, I got full sets of BiS end game gear by simply playing through story lines. We didn’t hit level 20 only to discover that we were going to be collecting silk for the next year or so before being able to craft our BiS gear. Plus, there were tricks to reducing your grind in GW1. Soloing high end mobs was feasible with certain builds, and three-manning eight-man content was often effective as well.

Because some elements of not so grindy doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. Its still grind. There are tricks to reducing the grind in gw2 as well. But its still grind.

there is a difference between optional grind and progression grind, GW1 has pretty much no progression grind but plenty of optional grind, GW2 is the exact opposite.

Well that’s not true. Guild Wars 2’s progressive grind is gear progressive grind. Guild Wars 1’s progressive grind was rep grind for skills as well as grind for better chances to salvage and retain lockpicks on chests. All of that is progressive, even if it’s a different kind of progression.

I feel like I have to have ascended armor less than I felt I had to level save yourselves to max level on my imbagon paragon. What you’re stating is an opinion, not a fact.

i don’t think you know what optional grind is, to make it simple for you, it’s when you don’t need it to play the game.
anything lockpick is optional, anything rep is optional.
you don’t need PvE skills to win in the game, better yet, in PvP you can’t even use them in the first place.

in GW2 you NEED a certain armor tier or you’re useless in high/max level areas, you NEED a higher weapon tier or you’re practically useless, you NEED to get your traits or your character is useless.
that’s progression grind, something you can’t avoid.

oh and FYI, that’s a fact, not an opinion.
what you see as needed is beside the point, what is needed by game design, that’s what matters.

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Serophous.9085:

Bernie.8674:

Serophous.9085:

GW1 had plenty of grind with its faction grind and grinding for ectos. Then grinding the same mob over and over again for its rare drop.

But there were also many title tracks that were not so grindy. Legendary Vanquisher, for example. Also, I got full sets of BiS end game gear by simply playing through story lines. We didn’t hit level 20 only to discover that we were going to be collecting silk for the next year or so before being able to craft our BiS gear. Plus, there were tricks to reducing your grind in GW1. Soloing high end mobs was feasible with certain builds, and three-manning eight-man content was often effective as well.

Because some elements of not so grindy doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. Its still grind. There are tricks to reducing the grind in gw2 as well. But its still grind.

there is a difference between optional grind and progression grind, GW1 has pretty much no progression grind but plenty of optional grind, GW2 is the exact opposite.

Well that’s not true. Guild Wars 2’s progressive grind is gear progressive grind. Guild Wars 1’s progressive grind was rep grind for skills as well as grind for better chances to salvage and retain lockpicks on chests. All of that is progressive, even if it’s a different kind of progression.

I feel like I have to have ascended armor less than I felt I had to level save yourselves to max level on my imbagon paragon. What you’re stating is an opinion, not a fact.

i don’t think you know what optional grind is, to make it simple for you, it’s when you don’t need it to play the game.
anything lockpick is optional, anything rep is optional.
you don’t need PvE skills to win in the game, better yet, in PvP you can’t even use them in the first place.

in GW2 you NEED a certain armor tier or you’re useless in high/max level areas, you NEED a higher weapon tier or you’re practically useless, you NEED to get your traits or your character is useless.
that’s progression grind, something you can’t avoid.

oh and FYI, that’s a fact, not an opinion.
what you see as needed is beside the point, what is needed by game design, that’s what matters.

In Guild Wars 2, you can finish 90% of the content in greens. You’re not useless in high level max areas, things just take a little longer. People beat liadri naked.

That’s a fact.

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Serophous.9085:

Bernie.8674:

Serophous.9085:

GW1 had plenty of grind with its faction grind and grinding for ectos. Then grinding the same mob over and over again for its rare drop.

But there were also many title tracks that were not so grindy. Legendary Vanquisher, for example. Also, I got full sets of BiS end game gear by simply playing through story lines. We didn’t hit level 20 only to discover that we were going to be collecting silk for the next year or so before being able to craft our BiS gear. Plus, there were tricks to reducing your grind in GW1. Soloing high end mobs was feasible with certain builds, and three-manning eight-man content was often effective as well.

Because some elements of not so grindy doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. Its still grind. There are tricks to reducing the grind in gw2 as well. But its still grind.

there is a difference between optional grind and progression grind, GW1 has pretty much no progression grind but plenty of optional grind, GW2 is the exact opposite.

Well that’s not true. Guild Wars 2’s progressive grind is gear progressive grind. Guild Wars 1’s progressive grind was rep grind for skills as well as grind for better chances to salvage and retain lockpicks on chests. All of that is progressive, even if it’s a different kind of progression.

I feel like I have to have ascended armor less than I felt I had to level save yourselves to max level on my imbagon paragon. What you’re stating is an opinion, not a fact.

i don’t think you know what optional grind is, to make it simple for you, it’s when you don’t need it to play the game.
anything lockpick is optional, anything rep is optional.
you don’t need PvE skills to win in the game, better yet, in PvP you can’t even use them in the first place.

in GW2 you NEED a certain armor tier or you’re useless in high/max level areas, you NEED a higher weapon tier or you’re practically useless, you NEED to get your traits or your character is useless.
that’s progression grind, something you can’t avoid.

oh and FYI, that’s a fact, not an opinion.
what you see as needed is beside the point, what is needed by game design, that’s what matters.

In Guild Wars 2, you can finish 90% of the content in greens. You’re not useless in high level max areas, things just take a little longer. People beat liadri naked.

That’s a fact.

green is a higher tier……i have a name for this but it’s not a nice one….-_-

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Serophous.9085:

Bernie.8674:

Serophous.9085:

GW1 had plenty of grind with its faction grind and grinding for ectos. Then grinding the same mob over and over again for its rare drop.

But there were also many title tracks that were not so grindy. Legendary Vanquisher, for example. Also, I got full sets of BiS end game gear by simply playing through story lines. We didn’t hit level 20 only to discover that we were going to be collecting silk for the next year or so before being able to craft our BiS gear. Plus, there were tricks to reducing your grind in GW1. Soloing high end mobs was feasible with certain builds, and three-manning eight-man content was often effective as well.

Because some elements of not so grindy doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. Its still grind. There are tricks to reducing the grind in gw2 as well. But its still grind.

there is a difference between optional grind and progression grind, GW1 has pretty much no progression grind but plenty of optional grind, GW2 is the exact opposite.

Well that’s not true. Guild Wars 2’s progressive grind is gear progressive grind. Guild Wars 1’s progressive grind was rep grind for skills as well as grind for better chances to salvage and retain lockpicks on chests. All of that is progressive, even if it’s a different kind of progression.

I feel like I have to have ascended armor less than I felt I had to level save yourselves to max level on my imbagon paragon. What you’re stating is an opinion, not a fact.

i don’t think you know what optional grind is, to make it simple for you, it’s when you don’t need it to play the game.
anything lockpick is optional, anything rep is optional.
you don’t need PvE skills to win in the game, better yet, in PvP you can’t even use them in the first place.

in GW2 you NEED a certain armor tier or you’re useless in high/max level areas, you NEED a higher weapon tier or you’re practically useless, you NEED to get your traits or your character is useless.
that’s progression grind, something you can’t avoid.

oh and FYI, that’s a fact, not an opinion.
what you see as needed is beside the point, what is needed by game design, that’s what matters.

In Guild Wars 2, you can finish 90% of the content in greens. You’re not useless in high level max areas, things just take a little longer. People beat liadri naked.

That’s a fact.

green is a higher tier……i have a name for this but it’s not a nice one….-_-

Sure, but it’s also easy as hell to get. It doesn’t matter if a tier is higher if everyone can have it pretty much at 80. Hell, if you’re leveling a new character now and doing your personal story you’ll have some rares and exotics by the time you’re done.

Non-issue is a non issue.

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Serophous.9085:

Bernie.8674:

Serophous.9085:

GW1 had plenty of grind with its faction grind and grinding for ectos. Then grinding the same mob over and over again for its rare drop.

But there were also many title tracks that were not so grindy. Legendary Vanquisher, for example. Also, I got full sets of BiS end game gear by simply playing through story lines. We didn’t hit level 20 only to discover that we were going to be collecting silk for the next year or so before being able to craft our BiS gear. Plus, there were tricks to reducing your grind in GW1. Soloing high end mobs was feasible with certain builds, and three-manning eight-man content was often effective as well.

Because some elements of not so grindy doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. Its still grind. There are tricks to reducing the grind in gw2 as well. But its still grind.

there is a difference between optional grind and progression grind, GW1 has pretty much no progression grind but plenty of optional grind, GW2 is the exact opposite.

Well that’s not true. Guild Wars 2’s progressive grind is gear progressive grind. Guild Wars 1’s progressive grind was rep grind for skills as well as grind for better chances to salvage and retain lockpicks on chests. All of that is progressive, even if it’s a different kind of progression.

I feel like I have to have ascended armor less than I felt I had to level save yourselves to max level on my imbagon paragon. What you’re stating is an opinion, not a fact.

i don’t think you know what optional grind is, to make it simple for you, it’s when you don’t need it to play the game.
anything lockpick is optional, anything rep is optional.
you don’t need PvE skills to win in the game, better yet, in PvP you can’t even use them in the first place.

in GW2 you NEED a certain armor tier or you’re useless in high/max level areas, you NEED a higher weapon tier or you’re practically useless, you NEED to get your traits or your character is useless.
that’s progression grind, something you can’t avoid.

oh and FYI, that’s a fact, not an opinion.
what you see as needed is beside the point, what is needed by game design, that’s what matters.

In Guild Wars 2, you can finish 90% of the content in greens. You’re not useless in high level max areas, things just take a little longer. People beat liadri naked.

That’s a fact.

green is a higher tier……i have a name for this but it’s not a nice one….-_-

Sure, but it’s also easy as hell to get. It doesn’t matter if a tier is higher if everyone can have it pretty much at 80. Hell, if you’re leveling a new character now and doing your personal story you’ll have some rares and exotics by the time you’re done.

Non-issue is a non issue.

to who, you, a person that already has 5 legendaries and still calls him self a casual?
i can’t take you serious with that, i am a true casual without legendaries and just 2 lvl 80’s barely geared up enough to stand a chance.

i know what grind is, i have bin playing MMO’s long enough to know, it’s an issue….and that’s a fact…

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Vayne.8563:

sorudo.9054:

Serophous.9085:

Bernie.8674:

Serophous.9085:

GW1 had plenty of grind with its faction grind and grinding for ectos. Then grinding the same mob over and over again for its rare drop.

But there were also many title tracks that were not so grindy. Legendary Vanquisher, for example. Also, I got full sets of BiS end game gear by simply playing through story lines. We didn’t hit level 20 only to discover that we were going to be collecting silk for the next year or so before being able to craft our BiS gear. Plus, there were tricks to reducing your grind in GW1. Soloing high end mobs was feasible with certain builds, and three-manning eight-man content was often effective as well.

Because some elements of not so grindy doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. Its still grind. There are tricks to reducing the grind in gw2 as well. But its still grind.

there is a difference between optional grind and progression grind, GW1 has pretty much no progression grind but plenty of optional grind, GW2 is the exact opposite.

Well that’s not true. Guild Wars 2’s progressive grind is gear progressive grind. Guild Wars 1’s progressive grind was rep grind for skills as well as grind for better chances to salvage and retain lockpicks on chests. All of that is progressive, even if it’s a different kind of progression.

I feel like I have to have ascended armor less than I felt I had to level save yourselves to max level on my imbagon paragon. What you’re stating is an opinion, not a fact.

i don’t think you know what optional grind is, to make it simple for you, it’s when you don’t need it to play the game.
anything lockpick is optional, anything rep is optional.
you don’t need PvE skills to win in the game, better yet, in PvP you can’t even use them in the first place.

in GW2 you NEED a certain armor tier or you’re useless in high/max level areas, you NEED a higher weapon tier or you’re practically useless, you NEED to get your traits or your character is useless.
that’s progression grind, something you can’t avoid.

oh and FYI, that’s a fact, not an opinion.
what you see as needed is beside the point, what is needed by game design, that’s what matters.

In Guild Wars 2, you can finish 90% of the content in greens. You’re not useless in high level max areas, things just take a little longer. People beat liadri naked.

That’s a fact.

That’s a completely facetious argument. The developers do not intend people to stop when they hit green gear. They did not design the game to either encourage or require that kind of behaviour.

But go on, you can say anything is optional. Hell, playing this game is optional. Leveling is optional. You can stay at level one and just pvp, can’t you? It’s a challenge.

I think it’s funny people are trying to now say that there’s only a tiny bit of the population who can’t stand the ascended grind. That may be true NOW with the game going on 3 years coming up, but it wasn’t before. How many millions of players did they lose post the Nov 2012 I wonder, remember all those people who were purchasing the game before this announcement, people they had to actually STOP the digital purchases for because there were so many they couldn’t keep up? Remember those people? Yeah I highly doubt that this title still has the estimated 5 million from sales it had at launch and I suspect it’s directly due to the ascended grind. This is based off of the huge reaction to it 2 years ago. So you can misrepresent the numbers all you want, it was not only unnecessary, it also went against their philosophy, and it caused huge swaths of players to leave, and even if it turned out to be 500k players that’s a big deal, that’s 500k wallets that won’t be spending a dime in the store for either gem-gold conversion or the items they have in the store for cosmetics. That’s a huge amount of revenue!

Let’s look at one of the other titles out there who recently had a grind RNG philosophy. Destiny. Oh wait, they recently had to change that because just like Diablo III they lost tons of players too (which hurt them more I suspect because they are a sub only title).

Historical fact trumps propaganda and pr any day. Demand has spoken, let’s see if wisdom prevails when it comes to supply.

Vayne.8563:

Distaste.4801:

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

This isn’t some big huge thing that huge numbers of people are complaining about. This is a pet peeve of a small percentage of the population who got riled up because Anet used the word grind and said the game wasn’t grindy. If that hadn’t happened, this thread wouldn’t even exist.

Yes, yes it would.

I have utter and complete faith it would still exist in some form. We might not be complaining about the same things as far as grind . . .

This thread is specifically about the no grind philosophy which was brought up at the launch. If the word grind hadn’t been mentioned in the launch people would be talking more about HoT and less about this.

Also there are a lot of things that people post in grind threads that aren’t about the grind itself.

Time gating is not grind, if anything it’s anti grind. It’s an alternate way to slow down progress. If something is time gated, you can’t grind it.

RNG – RNG is not grind. It’s a way of slowing down how fast you get something. You can grind the whole world over and over for a precursor, but what’s being complained about there is the random element…not grind.

Not getting good enough drops – This is not grind either, it’s people complaining they somehow have unlucky accounts and they don’t get the stuff other people do.

There are some grind complaints on these forums but they’re generally few and far between or have been for the last year or so anyway.

Time gating can certainly be a grind. Grinding is any repetitive task you need to do a lot of times to achieve some goal. Just because it is time gated does not mean you aren’t doing a repetitive task. The grind is spread out over a much longer period of time. Did I want to log in and do the daily? Heck no! But I needed that laurel and a lot more in order to get an ascended item. So every day I logged on to grind out the daily to get a single laurel towards my goal.

RNG is certainly a part of grinding. If it makes things harder to get that means doing the repetitive task more, thus more grinding. If an item has a 1/10 chance of dropping it’s not going to take nearly as much grinding as a 1/2500.

Poor drops- this is the same as RNG. If you get poor drops then you’re going to be grinding more in order to get whatever it is that you want. Not to mention that GW2’s reward system is terrible since most of the time you get trash loot. This helps reinforce the feeling of grinding since you never get a feeling of accomplishment. This is diablo 3 at release, at least Blizzard learned from their mistake.

In the last year or so the forums have slowed to a crawl as people have left or simply don’t care anymore since the devs ignore us. Grind has always been a big topic in GW2. Do you not remember the dungeon grind at launch that people complained about? Pentinent grind? The fractal skin grind? The ascended mats grind? The precursor grind? Champ grinding? The T6 grind? The Lodestone grind? Silk grinding? Ecto grinding? I mean there is very few aspects of GW2 that haven’t been associated with grinding and then complained about.

Time gating is NOT a grind. It prevents grind.

In the old days, you could do dungeons over and over again to farm tokens. They time gated those tokens. After that people didn’t talk about grinding tokens. If anything time gating is a measure to PREVENT grind. Anyone who calls time gating a grind isn’t using any definition I’ve ever heard.

Yes there has always been a low undercurrent of people complaining about those things, but it’s dwarfed by the number of threads about mounts.

There will always be people complaining about lots of stuff, but it’s not prevalent and hasn’t been in a long long time.

Time-gating itself isn’t ‘grind’ no, but it does increase the time-spawn (not the length) of a grind. So in stead of grinding one day for 3 hours and have what you got you are now grinding 2 weeks 15 minutes a day. So it is not really grind indeed but it can increase the time-spawn in what you are grinding. So it is not strange it get mentioned in grind thread. Many people would then likely prefer to do it once for 3 hours and be done with the grind.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

aerial.7021:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Grind?

Go play Pac Man, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong, or pretty much any of the video games that introduced the world to computer gaming. That is what grind is.

Woefully incorrect, Pac-Man, Space Invaders, or Donkey Kong in fact any old game in the era you are talking about on the whole was NOT about grind at all! it was about who could get the highest score, because those games do not have an end-game at all period they if anything loop and you just keep playing for as long as you can stay alive, more importantly they where developed for Arcades Halls, the 2 cannot be compared at all there in different eras, let alone genres.

You’re right. It was only a grind if you cared about the prestige of seeing your name on the leaderboard.

So . . . self-inflicted grind.

. . . I’m having a sense of deja-vu . . . nah, wait, that’s just my Tetris flashbacks.

Incorrect. It’s about skill not about grind. The points don’t count up what would made it a grind. Technically you would be able to get the highest score after only having played once. So thats something completely different.

Somebody who is doing something multiple times to get better at it is not considered grinding but learning.

What in fact could be other interesting way to implement repeatable content without grind. Make something people want to get better at.

Devata.6589:

What in fact could be other interesting way to implement repeatable content without grind. Make something people want to get better at.

Apparently if you believe the hype train on HoT they are attempting just that however not being one to believe in hype I shall reserve judgement until release, it is odd to me that hot (pun ha!) on the heels of its announcement this topic take front and center stage on the forum, I wonder how much grind they’ve added to that ‘challenging content’ they keep touting, I’d wager colossal amounts of grind and left clicking until your mouse breaks.

Some people have a very loose definition of “grind”.

Go play Silkroad Online and tell me GW2 has grind. Go play Aion, go play most MMOs of the past and tell me GW2 has grind.

You’re a might spoiled if you honestly believe GW2 has any significant level of grind that you are forced to do.

Also the ArenaNet team doesn’t even want you to have to level up from 2 to 80 but they put levels in the game so the majority of gamers wouldn’t be confused by the lack of character level.

aerial.7021:

I wonder how much grind they’ve added to that ‘challenging content’ they keep touting, I’d wager colossal amounts of grind and left clicking until your mouse breaks.

DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME!?!

What is the colossal amount of left clicking you are imagining?

The only time I’ve encountered a lot of left clicking is when using Essences of Luck.

You know you can use a keyboard to activate skills, right? Spamming left clicking?? Whaaaa?

Well… as much as I felt ANet did a great job avoiding grind… in comes the Mastery system with a vertical progression and what reads as “grind your mastery out in the new content so you can unlock skills required to do other content”

Jerus.4350:

Well… as much as I felt ANet did a great job avoiding grind… in comes the Mastery system with a vertical progression and what reads as “grind your mastery out in the new content so you can unlock skills required to do other content”

In before “mastery boosters” in gem shop ;-)

Mo Mo.1947:

Some people have a very loose definition of “grind”.

Go play Silkroad Online and tell me GW2 has grind. Go play Aion, go play most MMOs of the past and tell me GW2 has grind.

You’re a might spoiled if you honestly believe GW2 has any significant level of grind that you are forced to do.

Also the ArenaNet team doesn’t even want you to have to level up from 2 to 80 but they put levels in the game so the majority of gamers wouldn’t be confused by the lack of character level.

aerial.7021:

I wonder how much grind they’ve added to that ‘challenging content’ they keep touting, I’d wager colossal amounts of grind and left clicking until your mouse breaks.

DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME!?!

What is the colossal amount of left clicking you are imagining?

The only time I’ve encountered a lot of left clicking is when using Essences of Luck.

You know you can use a keyboard to activate skills, right? Spamming left clicking?? Whaaaa?

or opening bags, and the game has a ton of opening bags for various currencies/materials needed for other items.

Yeah but none of that is grind, phys. I’m still not sure what aerial is thinking of. Opening things in your inventory is not grind. :P

Bernie.8674:

How are you getting 5g in two hours? I might get that on guild mission nights, by doing dungeons, or by engaging in concerted farming, but I’ve never gotten anywhere near that by playing casually the way you claim. I must be playing wrong. I’m stagnant somewhere between 20 and 25 gold right now.

World Boss Grand Tour. Log on, find which boss is up next, and do the circuit for an hour. Sell the Ecto from salvaging the rares, sell Silk if I really want to make the money, and sell all the blues and greens.

Drop into Silverwastes if it’s before 1am PST and generally will find an active map. Do events, and sell proceeds much like with the Grand Tour. This one moves faster and can be more lucrative.

Harvest any trees I see there, and then take a moment to go to Pagga’s Waypoint and find the motherlode of Cypress to the west – sell Foxfire Clusters.

I think the lowest I hit was 3.8 g on a night where I forged rares instead of salvaging and selling Ecto.

Mo Mo.1947:

Yeah but none of that is grind, phys. I’m still not sure what aerial is thinking of. Opening things in your inventory is not grind. :P

lol, it actually is, and its probably unintentional,
but some one recently opened 13k bags
they got one ascended box.
it took them 10 hours i think to open all the bags.

he made like 1.1k i think

i think the poster’s point was, for some reason, anet tied a lot of endgame goals to opening a crap load of bags to get a crap load of materials/currencies, and they are hoping masteries wont be similar.

As of right now, in that respect it seems unlikely.

Serophous.9085:

Vayne.8563:

At the time when ascended gear was added to the game, there were a whole lot of posts about people leaving because they had nothing to do. The only way Anet could have added something to do in a timely manner, was to add something time gated that helped people stay in game longer toward that goal. I didn’t like it but I got why they did it. The forums were a zoo. Every day there were posts about people who ran out of stuff to do. Anet made a decision based on forum posts. Yet you dislike their solution.

The solution of providing more and more content wasn’t an option because the content your’e talking about takes too much time to implement if they needed to head off what was quickly becoming a stampede.

But more to the point. we hardly see grind complaints, UNTIL Anet brings up the words no grind. And then we get threads like this.

Before this thread, I think you could count on one hand the number of times a month that anyone said they had a problem with the game being grindy.

This isn’t some big huge thing that huge numbers of people are complaining about. This is a pet peeve of a small percentage of the population who got riled up because Anet used the word grind and said the game wasn’t grindy. If that hadn’t happened, this thread wouldn’t even exist.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-personally-feel-like-I-am-going-nowhere-in-PVE
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-do-you-guys-do-after-80
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/getting-kinda-bored-already
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Something-to-Consider
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Are-the-complaints-just-from-a-lack-of-understanding

Yeah, this was just at the beginning of september of some posts I bother to go back and look for, least one a page at times. So before the november patch with the ascended gear.

Its also probably hard to find some things, as other complaints were probably moved to “trash can”, hence why i at least linked the last one.

Fast reading the OP’s of all topics they all complain about lack of end-game, being bored at 80. Two talk about having no trinity (And I do agree that we should need better roles in GW2 where a profession has it’s own task / role to complete, but that does not have to be the trinity!) .

However what I do not see is somebody asking for a gear treadmill. The only post that does say something about that is somebody complaining that people are asking talking about no end-game, no trinity and other stuff like a thread-mill. But for all I know he is making the same conclusion as you guys are.. If people complain about no end-game they ask for gear thread-mill (or grind) so people did ask for ascended.

It’s a conclusion I sort of came to before in this thread, that the so called outcry for gear progression I did not seem to remember but multiple people here talked about was in fact the complain about no end-game. What is of course not the same.

Mo Mo.1947:

DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME!?!

!http://s18.postimg.org/b4vi9tedh/gw504.jpg!

Uhmm I guess I do..

ed: 6.75hr a day for those mathematically challenged.

Mo Mo.1947:

What is the colossal amount of left clicking you are imagining?

The only time I’ve encountered a lot of left clicking is when using Essences of Luck.

Stacks of 250? you’ve never opened 250+ bags ever? (that is a silly grind too)

Mo Mo.1947:

You know you can use a keyboard to activate skills, right? Spamming left clicking?? Whaaaa?

Yes I’m aware thank you.

KarlaGrey.5903:

How many hours you got in GW is irrelevant. If all you tried was farm rings during events, while ignoring double week pts and other ways of obtaining the pts then you just made things last longer that necessary. And obv it’s grind, but it’s no where near the level and impact of, let’s say, ascended.

You’re joking, right? I can get an ascended weapon in about two weeks, tops.

To get that lucky title in GW1 was an insane grind of AFKing in rings for an entire event (month long or so), off-put ever so slightly by those double point weekends.

It’s much better these days since the holidays and the double point events now rotate on fixed schedules due to the automation of GW1, but back in the day, that came maybe twice a year?

The rest of the year was you playing with lockpicks. That’s not to mention the insane amount of money you had to pour into it.

Comparing this to ascended stuff is unconscionable. Just had to point that out as a GW1 player.

Ya’ll feel free to get back to your fruitless debate regarding grind that was summarily put to rest some 15+ pages ago.

Ascended is the top performing element of its kind in this game. The Lucky title was not the top performing element of its kind in GW1. If you spent time actively grinding the Lucky title you were reducing your in game wealth gain compared to pursuing other in game wealth generation methods.

Grinding for the Lucky title, and it was a grind, is comparable to deciding to grind for Green (or perhaps rares) gear in GW2.

Ashen.2907:

Grinding for the Lucky title, and it was a grind, is comparable to deciding to grind for Green (or perhaps rares) gear in GW2.

I would say grinding for fresh air, because there really isn’t any pay off for getting either lucky/unlucky, other than your lock-pick durability, most people AFK’ed that title or just ran the game in the background.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Bernie.8674:

How are you getting 5g in two hours? I might get that on guild mission nights, by doing dungeons, or by engaging in concerted farming, but I’ve never gotten anywhere near that by playing casually the way you claim. I must be playing wrong. I’m stagnant somewhere between 20 and 25 gold right now.

World Boss Grand Tour. Log on, find which boss is up next, and do the circuit for an hour. Sell the Ecto from salvaging the rares, sell Silk if I really want to make the money, and sell all the blues and greens.

Drop into Silverwastes if it’s before 1am PST and generally will find an active map. Do events, and sell proceeds much like with the Grand Tour. This one moves faster and can be more lucrative.

Harvest any trees I see there, and then take a moment to go to Pagga’s Waypoint and find the motherlode of Cypress to the west – sell Foxfire Clusters.

I think the lowest I hit was 3.8 g on a night where I forged rares instead of salvaging and selling Ecto.

I never even considered trying to sell blues and green since I couldn’t imagine there was much much market for them at or near the level cap. I’ve just been salvaging them. I assume you mean sell them on the TP, but maybe you are selling to vendors? Do you have any idea who is buying them or why they pay for items that aren’t useful and seem to be in endless supply?

tigirius.9014:

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

nGumball.1283:

~

~

~

Have to agree with this. When I say grind I mean enormous effort for almost no reward. Even Arenanet cannot make a statement that says they don’t have grind when using this definition because the entire game is based around the philosophy economically.

When I say farm, I mean doing repetative activities to gain a specific set of rewards in a reasonable amount of time, like gathering ore. If you want to talk drops I’d say they have the ability to farm items like greens and blues but as these items are largely useless even from a crafting standpoint much less one in which someone can use the materials from these items to make massive amounts of gold (haha) they definitely DON’T have farming in this game. They were very very successful at killing farming at the expense of a rewarding gameplay design.

For example, certain types of leather are near impossible to farm even to the last day I logged in, they were mid level types of leather, so if you were a gold farmer forget it. The same went for certain types of gems in gem cutting. I was amazed that these items stayed relatively rare even though they were common items needed for crafting for the past number of years.

An example of farming would be in other titles, like I can go out right now and do specific things and I’ll know I’ll get garrison resources. I can go out right now and do specific things and I’ll know I’ll get dilithium, both 100% of the time from these other two game titles, but not here. Here not only do we have RNG to deal with we also have RNG within RNG (the chance for bags to drop and then the chance for certain items to drop) AND DR on top of that.

Yeah especially if it comes to mats I completely agree. They actively removed farming. What I remember from back in the beta was that people said where afraid the no-grind philosophy would mean you could not farm for things in the game (funny enough that comes close to the ’hunting down stuff yourself, I talk about). Anet response was that you could but it was not needed, that is what there no grind was about. I clearly remember this.

However after the game was released every time people found a way to farm for high level / tier mats they nerved it, using really bad excuses.
I mean, I remember being in a thread where we talked about the bug of npc’s / mobs spawning way to fast in GW2. We had an open conversation with a dev there but the end-result basically was, everything works as it should be. Well nonsense, there are many places you kill something and it spawns again immediately (like if they are in a que waiting to be spawned because while there are only 5 there, there are 15 ready to spawn), killing a group of pirates usually means killing them all like 3 times. That problem still is in the game.

Then the second south-sun patch came and people found a good way to farm (I think blood) mats from the skelks, that got nerved because, a bug made the skelks spawn to fast.. really? They spawn just as fast as all those other things but when people talked about it, that wasn’t considered a bug, then people use it to farm mats at a normal speed (normal compared to other games) and it’s a bug.

The complete first half year to a year every time people find a way to farm some mats they nerved it eventually only having the grind for gold option left. (How convenient for there cash-shop gem > gold option. But of course that completely unrelated right.)

So indeed, farming (for mats people really need) is pretty dead in this game. All that is left is grind for gold.

If you want low tier blood you could still farm, like bats. In most mmo’s farming high tier mats is just as ‘easy’ but they come from high level mobs. In this game many of those high tier mats are simply not farmable and it’s those you would usually want to farm.

I don’t think there is much of a grind in this game. Sure, there is a grind – every game has grind. I dare you to play a game for hundreds of hours and NOT grind to some degree. If it’s fun, you won’t really feel the weight of grinding.

So since it’s such an applicable term people usually defer to grinding only when its negative – in other words when the grind invalidates previous accomplishments. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t do this, which makes grind fairly minimal. Sure, you can make the argument that there is grind…but I seriously challenge you to play any game for as long as you’ve played Guild Wars 2 without grinding. Grinding sustains games, plain and simple.

Devata.6589:

It’s a conclusion I sort of came to before in this thread, that the so called outcry for gear progression I did not seem to remember but multiple people here talked about was in fact the complain about no end-game. What is of course not the same.

Back in the January of 2013 , the 2 biggest ’’Megathreads’’ (you know that the Mods will direct you post to that) was the ‘’Thief Megathread’’ (if a thief is not used in Higher tier team , then his not Op :P)
and the ’’Progresion’’ , that different ppl have asked about raids and gear progresion(because they play an MMO for the character progresion and not as a Barbie game) and ofc mounts collection :P

Vayne.8563:

@Devata.6589

There’s a difference between someone saying the level of grind is unacceptable and saying, how can you claim this game has no grind. Those are two completely different things. This thread is saying that Anet’s claims are wrong. It’s an excuse, a target for dissatisfied people to rally together to a banner.

Yeah and after Colins post in this topic the complain became.. well we still find it a grind because… or well the grind you don’t take up in your grind philosophy (but you agree exists) is just as bad the the grind you try to prevent.

“There’s no way I’m going to convince you that ascended gear was their only real option, or something very much like it.” again, while I do not really care about the ascended stuff, the decision I consider wrong is making everything a grind.. Yeah I do think there where multiple options they could have gone for. But off topic, I am not the one here complaining about ascended gear.