Guild Wars 2

@Gisei.5749

As of now, I am indifferent about the WP change. However I have one worry for what this may do in the future when they implement the later changes they intend to make. Currently it is rather time consuming to find a party for certain dungeons, especially the story paths. I feel this is because their just aren’t enough reasons to do them. The WP change only hurts the already few people running certain dungeons. While they may have intended dungeons to have a certain degree of difficulty and reward payout at the games launch, the current power creep has left the old dungeons feeling dry and underwhelming for the amount of time they ask of us.

For example, a dungeon like Twilight Arbor is, by some peoples opinions, unpleasant. Running TA for nothing but skins or weapons to feed to the Mystic Forge doesn’t always seem like the most efficient way to play the game anymore (fractals). Their are simply better ways to go about spending your time for the same results (other then the skins). However, people in my guild including myself still run it all the time because their are some ways to ease the grind. Should these dungeons become so challenging that they are the hardest content in the game, I fear that people will simply not run them in favor of other methods to achieve these items. After the first few runs of every path they loose their fun and become a chore.

I feel that if they do want to make dungeons as hard as you state, then they tokens they reward should be more, or make the items cost less tokens.

This should make CoE’s laser puzzle really fun. /s Luckily, I’m a mesmer so I’ll get to do all the work.

Rhysati.4932:

Lord Yoshi.6738:

-Four players can completely revive a dead person while in combat in around 5 seconds and a downed player with a sliver of hp left in around 2.5 seconds. Pretty sure those numbers are accurate but I haven’t precisely timed it.

Ahh, well then…it’s just fine and dandy right? It’s not like the boss won’t be kind enough to let your whole group stack up in one spot to resurrect someone. He won’t cast some nasty aoe spell that kills everyone in one-hit while they try to resurrect or anything. /rolleyes

You name a boss that does a deadly AoE attack and attacks in intervals faster than 2.5 seconds.

Dasboba.1652:

This should make CoE’s laser puzzle really fun. /s Luckily, I’m a mesmer so I’ll get to do all the work.

This change won’t affect that at all as everyone will be out of combat. Same for TA’s up path with the dash of doom. Also every single dash where you skip a bunch of mobs.

Really, people are overthinking this. Speculation without facts and logic isn’t helping at all either.

Lord Yoshi.6738:

Rhysati.4932:

Lord Yoshi.6738:

-Four players can completely revive a dead person while in combat in around 5 seconds and a downed player with a sliver of hp left in around 2.5 seconds. Pretty sure those numbers are accurate but I haven’t precisely timed it.

Ahh, well then…it’s just fine and dandy right? It’s not like the boss won’t be kind enough to let your whole group stack up in one spot to resurrect someone. He won’t cast some nasty aoe spell that kills everyone in one-hit while they try to resurrect or anything. /rolleyes

You name a boss that does a deadly AoE attack and attacks in intervals faster than 2.5 seconds.

Subject Alpha

Guys. I see a problem.

Lupicus.

(to be honest, this will make Lupicus more fun, and require more skill)

laokoko.7403:

So I’m basically have to post something like “lfg xxx, no first timer now”?

Basically yes, that´s what this poorly thought through idea boils down to.

We´re being told to L2P.

Problem is, we´re not being told to where we should actually accomplish that.

I guess watching guides on Youtube all day?

HawkMeister.4758:

laokoko.7403:

So I’m basically have to post something like “lfg xxx, no first timer now”?

Basically yes, that´s what this poorly thought through idea boils down to.

We´re being told to L2P.

Problem is, we´re not being told to where we should actually accomplish that.

I guess watching guides on Youtube all day?

Oh yay, i remember having to do that when i was raiding in wow. “oh, you want to tank firelands? First you gotta watch these videos and ima quiz you on it.” It kinda sucked but i understood where he was comming from.
I suppose the whole thing is going to add a pretty steep learning curve, especially because people are used to zerging certain fights. I suppose it works for fractals mainly because there are no oneshot abilities (except maybe the dredge boss bombs).

You kinda missed my point, sorry forgot the sarcasm font.

The day I have to do this is the day I´ll uninstall this game and never look back.

Watching guides may work in that other game, but here it´s next to useless as you simply need actual playtime to learn what the bosses are up to so one can apply the dodges right.

Getting one-shoted then not able to do anything but watch your group zerg on is definitely “hit X in upper right corner” time.
Another big reason why I don´t bother with Fractals.

I can get behind not being able to use waypoints in dungeons while party members aren’t in combat.

It’s a GREAT change.

Gives those areas more of an elite feel, but some parties will have to stock up on Energy Drinks because it’ll take ’em a LONG time

Windwalker.2047:

Lord Yoshi.6738:

Rhysati.4932:

Lord Yoshi.6738:

-Four players can completely revive a dead person while in combat in around 5 seconds and a downed player with a sliver of hp left in around 2.5 seconds. Pretty sure those numbers are accurate but I haven’t precisely timed it.

Ahh, well then…it’s just fine and dandy right? It’s not like the boss won’t be kind enough to let your whole group stack up in one spot to resurrect someone. He won’t cast some nasty aoe spell that kills everyone in one-hit while they try to resurrect or anything. /rolleyes

You name a boss that does a deadly AoE attack and attacks in intervals faster than 2.5 seconds.

Subject Alpha

Yes, and he uses the deadly one at most every other attack, which if you’re fighting him correctly by bunching up together right next to him, you should have no problem reviving even two people at once. At worst, three or four people go down at once and you just leave the area and reset it, losing about 2-4 minutes. The worm vine things in TA have a weakness in that they remain fixated on a specific player. As long as that person stays far away, the worm things won’t attack.

Thank you so much anet, finally doing a dungeon its gonna be challenge, please dont nerf anything. Also remove the ressing orbes. Right now we really not need decent team play in dungeons (i have done all of them in all paths and my Fractals team got bored after level 30, that was before wintersday patch of course – just in case someone said something like theres difficult bosses or parts).
Its apropiate to make the game difficult and get extra rewards of course, even in fractals not all people change skills per encounter, and definitivly they dont know much about combos or anythin like rotating antiproyectile skills, etc. Its anormal to get a team that can play the game properly, and actual dungeons dont make people learn it, less the “elitist” exotic gears, actually they go with a exotic gear die and respawn system make people dont learn anything, you get warriors who died like 5 or 6 times in a easy dungeon like AC or CoF, and believe me even with a alt in level 45 i can survive AC complitly (not the only oneof course theres people much more skilled than me), what we need is a higher dfficulty so people get forced to learn to play properly, and exotic gear and level 80 normally dont means they can survive instead in some case it make the user feel better and be really bad, it not gonna compensate hes “dps” if he is a pain for be revived (that happens with unskilled players), lol 90% of the elitist cant even solo a simple legendary… or stay alive in a single dungeon.

To put it simply you will be forced to learn to roll your class and to properlly work in team, if you dont like its ok quit or dont do dungeons, if you like it just said the word and theres a lot of people like me that will help you to learn, and by the gods i dont care t spent silver to make a teammate with low level earn to play the game, but for that the game need to be harder because othercase they dont need to learn much just a couple of things and the greatness of their class and team job is for nothing.

More reasons to party with warriors and guardians and no one else.

I´ll make it simple.

The only thing you “expert” players or ANet can force me to is STOP PLAYING the kitten game!
Right now we have gotten an unplanned (like all good things) difficulty progression:
World PvE -> Dungeon Explo. -> Fractals

Dungeon Story should be in there too, but ANet managed to make it completely useless.
As they can´t decide if it should be an interactive movie or the intro to Dungeon play, thus it abysmally fails at both. Including actual rewards for going through it.

If you PvE experts are so super, then go into PvP and actually prove yourself there.

And it would be really super too if you Devs could actually learn to listen to the guys paying for your lunch, instead of trying to force your wild ideas down our throats.

I’m a casual player, and I PUG dungeons pretty much exclusively. I don’t have the time to commit to a PvE guild, my friends and I have conflicting schedules that mean there’s rarely more than 2 of us on at the same time, and when we are all together we all want to do different things. I’m not an uncommon type, either. My concern in this new update is what will become of PUGs, which are generally disorganized and so deaths are incredibly common. On some rare days you might stumble upon a goldmine and get a team that meshes well together, the run is smooth as butter, and I love those times… but such days are few and far between. This update is great for people who get to play with their friends or in highly tuned PvE guilds, and I’m happy that they’ll have more fun (I guess? If you enjoy staring at your corpse for 15 minutes while your friend solos the boss then more power to you), but it’s an inevitable deathblow to any kind of casual PUG. And more than that, it sets up a GIANT barrier to entry for people new to the game or new to dungeons.

For people new to running a particular dungeon, or all dungeons, I can only see negatives for them. A common response in this thread is to tell people to L2P – that this system is going to force people to finally use some SKILL. Gosh, who knew it was so easy? I agree that it’s a good idea to learn from more experienced players and become better at playing the game. Why wouldn’t you want to do that? Certainly most people WANT to get better at playing the game… but how are newbies going to do this when the experienced players are going to be more reluctant than ever about letting “dead weight” into their groups? People are already saying in this thread that they’re going to be super selective with PUGs or more likely just not use them at all. If you’re a new player without a guild or friends, it sounds like you’re out of luck.

What do you think is going to happen to the already widespread problem of party kicks for people who aren’t up to par? The practice is going to fly through the roof, naturally. Getting rid of inefficient members isn’t inherently bad, but once again new players in PUGs are not only going to be receiving the short end of the stick, they’re going to be beaten with it. Even if they do manage to find a group who’ll take them, if they don’t learn fast enough they’ll probably find themselves booted. I’m sure that really helps them “l2p” and OF COURSE teaches them so much about running that dungeon. As does staring at their dead body, filing their nails and waiting for everyone else to wipe or kill the boss. You can’t even move the camera to watch what the other people are doing, so I’m sure that’s going to be both educational AND highly entertaining.

If Anet doesn’t nerf the ever loving kitten out of dungeons when they make this change, every LFG is going to become “80s exotics only NO FIRST TIMERS” and the like. PUGs made of newbies will drag for hours and probably end in abandonment. (That sounds like so much fun and I am super excited for that part. I am sure abandoned runs is exactly what people hope for when they PUG.) But serious nerfing is sure to upset the elite players, and they’re a valuable part of the playerbase too, so it doesn’t seem like a good idea. I’m not seeing anything in this that makes dungeons approachable for new players, though. Or perhaps new players simply aren’t worth caring about?

What make you think they do care about pugs? IF I remember correctly, there was a post from developer saying that Explorable dungeons are only for skilled, coordinated groups of players, they are not designed for pugs. So yes, pugs will have problems to do certain dungeons. Buts thats how it should be. You have to play your best to kill boss, not just run from lame WP and kill boss like nothing happend even if you die 10 times.

Go find yourself guild or good party to run with, where you communicate actually. No one cares about pugs in here. You dont have time to find guild or friends? Your problem… why should anyone care?

Areanet once said something like this: ‘’We are rewarding players who play our game, not those who arent.’’

For new peoples running dungeons this mean one thing. LEARN THE ENCOUNTER! Hard for you? Well .. no tokens for you

They should do this for dragons too!!! And the Temples!!! And for WvW!!! Because if you don’t know how to play your class, then that’s too bad!!!

That’s what I’m hearing. So devs…take the advice of all these people on here who are advocating that if you die, you are a bad player. Please.

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

This will make learning new dungeons impossible. I haven’t done all of them, but did pretty much of some. I will not take new players to party to a dungeon I know. Nor will I be taken to a dungeon I haven’t done before. Goes just great with ‘helpful community’ policy ANet is so proud about ;]

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just to clarify, you’ll no longer be able to use waypoints when a party member is in combat inside a dungeon. This is prevent people from using waypoints to rush and kill bosses or clear areas, which is not intended game play.

All other forms of res remain unchanged.

I wish you would quit squashing “unintended game play” and focus on fixing the multitude of bugs. Who cares if a tactic or process is unintended? Why not leave that option instead of limiting player choice, unless it is an out-and-out exploit?

You seem intent on herding everyone in particular directions, instead of giving players the freedom to find their fun how they choose. Unrestricted waypoint use in dungeons does nothing to prevent coordinated groups from marching through. It does however allow less capable groups to muddle through without having to completely abandon their efforts, thereby giving them experience toward not needing that crutch on later attempts, as well as tokens toward better equipment that make defeat less frequent. So now you want to force every group to wipe and start all over, so you’re essentially forcing some players to waste more time to accomplish their goals, in the name of shoving your vision down our throats.

tnarrant.9714:

I wish you would quit squashing “unintended game play” and focus on fixing the multitude of bugs. Who cares if a tactic or process is unintended? Why not leave that option instead of limiting player choice, unless it is an out-and-out exploit?

How many bugs are there untouched since beta? Totally agrred!

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

the problem is having NO friends AND no constant pt
so how will i go to dungeons i wona go ?
ohhh f me right i DON’T DESERVE to be in there i must pray to arenanet gods first make a sacrifice and then IF it is ok i will go cof p1 >_>
you can always put more mobs in there if you wona make it challenging, make more sub quests, make boss have fazes etc etc

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

im going to reuse this cuz it fitting.. "this post screams “im “eeleet!!” and i have premade group of other “eeeleets!!” this change does not affect me so stopp yur QQ”… imma put it simply if anyone can make it through the dungeons with little to no wipes or death in current live game this change will not raise the skill cap for u, nor said party u are running with (i.e. premades).. this change only affect pug’s and is debatable if its good or bad for the games future."

this change does not make the dungeon harder for u elits out there if anything you should be kitten about it becuz they are nerfing the dungeon. now it will be easier for u to faceroll your way through the content…. just fix the bugs and insane NPC dps output that cuases this WPzerg behavior.

to say these instances are only for the hardcore is insane… that would gate half the community that are casuals from the content leading to the endgame ending as soon as u hit 80 and well then u will truly have a dead game. they have a dungeon dedicated for u elites its call FotM they even gave u a new tier to pacify u.

in gw1 there were missions that required some research especially for bonuses… yeah its gonna be harder for pugs, but common ppl, use wiki, watch some youtube videos… think about build you are using.

on the build thing i see the only problem… it is impossible (well maybe not impossible but hard) to change builds since stats are on armor. change this pls, or im gonna have to have 8 sets of armors for each character for each dungeon.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just to clarify, you’ll no longer be able to use waypoints when a party member is in combat inside a dungeon. This is prevent people from using waypoints to rush and kill bosses or clear areas, which is not intended game play.

All other forms of res remain unchanged.

Actually I don’t think it’s a good idea to “prevent” people from using anything except bugs. I suppose you devs already know that No One Likes to Die and Run since it cost gold and time. You can simply make changes as you promised so people do not NEED Die and Rush.

For the “intended game play” part, why you not choose to encourage people to do the right thing in your mind? For example, if killing every mob in COF path 2 protecting area is what the game intend to be played, why you don’t give extra rewards to the team which can accomplish it? Also you can give much more extra rewards to the team who finished without any member die once.

People is different from each other, not every one will become a really skilled player in the dungeon. So imo the game should keep some bored, slow but easy methods to help player finish the dungeon since there will always be new players(Anet you likes this right?) and mistakes, but also great rewards for the good ones who finish the dungeons smooth and right. This method can keep players stay in the game since they can always get some rewards from playing it, also encourage them to become a skilled one and play in right way for more rewards.

PS. I worked hard and I play games for relax…I really don’t want to be examed in a game everyday…

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just to clarify, you’ll no longer be able to use waypoints when a party member is in combat inside a dungeon. This is prevent people from using waypoints to rush and kill bosses or clear areas, which is not intended game play.

All other forms of res remain unchanged.

Maybe consider going to a checkpoint system in dungeons along with the waypoints? Also may want to take a look ate dungeon bosses being able to AoE an entire room to instantly down 3/5 people and instantly call more AoE on the downed people making res impossible. While I feel this change was necessary I think it came a little early as most groups can’t even clear AC without LvL 80’s in exotic gear due to the scale down seeming to scale us down a little too far.

If you played GW1 you can translate this change to “waypoints are now resurrection shrines.”

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

So for people like me who has all of his friends quit the game within the first three months, such just stop doing dungeons because I don’t have people to do them with. Ok then so your basically telling me to get into a skilled group or quit.

Kakeru.2873:

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

So for people like me who has all of his friends quit the game within the first three months, such just stop doing dungeons because I don’t have people to do them with. Ok then so your basically telling me to get into a skilled group or quit.

No by this I am telling you to ‘’randoms groups of players’’ to actually think at encounter, play your best and coordinate. At the moment, you dont need to do any of this, you can fail as many times as you want and you still finish dungeons.

So either you cooperate in random groups more, play better or find good guild and new friends.

All what your complains are: ‘’We deserves to finish dungeons even if we fails, just because ….’’

If you are bad you dont deserves it. Simple

Not every random group is same:) Ive been in hundereds of random groups, many of them were so OP we did just faceroll everything. Others were so bad I felt like killing myself.

Very very few people actually “waypoint rush” bosses. The last time I’d been in a party like that was like, what? 3, 4 months ago?

What’s more likely to happen is that a guy or two accidentally gets downed or dies (mistimed Alpha dodge, get hit by ice in HOTW 2, misjudge a Lupicus dodge, gets hit by Kholer too many times by normal attack, etc.). So the rest of the team can proceed on killing the boss at a SIGNIFICANTLY slower rate or just suicide so they can take on the boss as a full party again.

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

You are a very short sighted player, without Pugs people cannot do dungeons, so they cannot get gears, so they leave the game in droves, and the population declines even more, which could very well lead to the game dying..

Which most of us do not want..yes that’s the worst case scenario but with closing off large chunks of the fan base this could very much happen..

Dante.1508:

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

You are a very short sighted player, without Pugs people cannot do dungeons, so they cannot get gears, so they leave the game in droves, and the population declines even more, which could very well lead to the game dying..

Which most of us do not want..yes that’s the worst case scenario but with closing off large chunks of the fan base this could very much happen..

As I said. Not every pug group is bad CURRENT system of wapoint system just encourage sloppynees and lazyness, thats all.

There are pug groups that will have no problem without waypoints, many of them.

there is problem for cof p2 were you fight like 15 silver mobs in a room
can some one from def team tell me how can ANY pt survive that for 10-15 mints with NO DIE
oh and every one of this mobs can 1 or 2 shoot you !
kite you say ? tell me how can you kite RANGE mobs ><

Only the Smokelords hurt that much to twoshot people. So you kill them first and that’s all.

Svetli.4276:

there is problem for cof p2 were you fight like 15 silver mobs in a room
can some one from def team tell me how can ANY pt survive that for 10-15 mints with NO DIE
oh and every one of this mobs can 1 or 2 shoot you !
kite you say ? tell me how can you kite RANGE mobs ><

CoF p2 mobzerg is pretty easy.

Focus smokelords, dodge telegraphed attacks, use combo fields. It’s simple.

Kakeru.2873:

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

So for people like me who has all of his friends quit the game within the first three months, such just stop doing dungeons because I don’t have people to do them with. Ok then so your basically telling me to get into a skilled group or quit.

Make new friends. People do it all the time in MMOs.

Although it is true that your months of whining on forums indicates a possible personality issue that might hamper your efforts.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

They already said that they nerv the dungeon to become easier… I really don’t get how you can complain about difficulty here. Group-play gets rewarded so make sure to stand next to each other for a quick rezz, enemies won’t hit that hard anymore so dungeons probably become rather easy (which I don’t like).

Let’s see how the new boss-mechanics play out.

Or , make sure to stand together so you all get caught at once in the same AOE.

Lucky.4263:

idea: get rid of the dodge and downstate mechanic replace them with “real” healers and "real " tanks… after that u can do whatever the hell u want with the dungeons.. IMO there is no real tactics to any of these boss fights or dungeons, its dodge dodge doge rez rez rez roll yur face across your KB blow all CD rinse and repeat… just MO tho.

Yeah. Cause if someone is going to hit me, I wont dodge it. Cause…… why?

Windwalker.2047:

Lord Yoshi.6738:

Rhysati.4932:

Lord Yoshi.6738:

-Four players can completely revive a dead person while in combat in around 5 seconds and a downed player with a sliver of hp left in around 2.5 seconds. Pretty sure those numbers are accurate but I haven’t precisely timed it.

Ahh, well then…it’s just fine and dandy right? It’s not like the boss won’t be kind enough to let your whole group stack up in one spot to resurrect someone. He won’t cast some nasty aoe spell that kills everyone in one-hit while they try to resurrect or anything. /rolleyes

You name a boss that does a deadly AoE attack and attacks in intervals faster than 2.5 seconds.

Subject Alpha

AND of course, everyone else will be, conveniently when you down, at full health and buffed up and not have to worry about any AOE’s

Curious, why not put a timer on WPing after dead in a dungeon? Because it would really suck to be part of a group that nearly wipes except for like 2 people and those 2 people are capable of slowly killing the boss/mob/monster while kiting however it takes them like 10-20 mins to kill said boss/mob/monster. Would really hate to have to sit there waiting for like 10-20 mins doing nothing while they kill that monster and they are unable to rez because if they do they wipe and the monster resets. To me putting a 1-2 min timer on WPing after you die would make a bit more sense because at least then if you and your party were able to bring a boss down to like 1/4 health left you at least have an opportunity to come back in time to battle said boss without losing any hard worked ground should you still be fortunate enough to have a player or 2 alive fighting it instead of being over-penalized for what was perhaps 1 minor misstep. Just my opinion, to try to lessen the speed “death-zerging” on bosses.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

in gw1 there were missions that required some research especially for bonuses… yeah its gonna be harder for pugs, but common ppl, use wiki, watch some youtube videos… think about build you are using.

on the build thing i see the only problem… it is impossible (well maybe not impossible but hard) to change builds since stats are on armor. change this pls, or im gonna have to have 8 sets of armors for each character for each dungeon.

New Player here, and I do this, but the combat in gw2 is different than that of gw1. I was watching videos of AC explor even before I got the game, it was one thing reading “make sure to dodge Kholer’s attack” on guides, and watching video’s of it, but it still took me a few runs to get to the point where I could dodge it each time with no problem.

Watching videos and reading guides help, but I had to actually experience it myself with all the spells flying around, possible lag, and Kholer occasionally being out of my line of vision in order to get it down.

AC is the only dungeon I’ve been in so far, I’m level 80, but I’ve stayed away from dungeons since my 4th time in AC explor because I had a bad incident in path 1, lol.

hharry.1967:

Stupid change imo. This is one of the things i like from this game, makes it more dynamic.

Failing an encounter and then running back from a waypoint in a dungeon does not make it more dynamic….. it makes it idiot proof, and easy.

And as they stated it was never their intention for it to create that effect " res zerging boss’s"

zerging was so bad, I hated when we resorted to zerg rushing to complete portions of the dungeon, it was boring as hell. This does mean they need to add some more WPs. The Destroyer boss in SF is about a 3 minute walk or something from the starting WP, it wouldn’t even be playable.

Actually as too many players learned…..:

Anet just seems to go Always against the players.

They just do everthing they can to make life harder and NOT more fun for players.

They nerf skills, nerf drops, remove playstyles etc all so fast, leaving compensation in other field to balance in the “to do list” forever.

That is the problem…..
See ARAH.
See what they did in cliffside some time ago
See what they did to engineer

There is a reason if players expect the worst any patch they do.

Most of us (LEGIT PLAYERS not exploiting anything) expect to have the chance of playing dungeon reduced from next patch….and i bet it will be so until following patch.

People paid for the whole game and therefore should be able to access the whole game no matter what their skill level.

The problem with the current structure of dungeons is that the players that need the most help are the least likely to get through. So great players get geared up very easily and not so great players are left struggling.

An easy solution for ‘one size fits all’ would be to have each explorable path be able to be played in 3 different modes: normal, elite, nightmare.

For a normal run a group should be able to tackle the instance ‘at level’ wearing their blues and greens and net a small amount of tokens. A nightmare run would be aimed at lvl 80’s in full exotic and would net a much larger amount of tokens and the elite run falling somewhere between the two.

People would be able to choose to tackle the instance at whatever level they are comfortable with. Elitists can still enjoy the fact that they completed their gear set with much less runs and people struggling eventually get the gear they need via many more runs.

Let’s cater to everyone Anet, it’s a good way to keep people happy and playing here well into the future.

It’s pretty hard to die, unless you have some glass cannon build without the skill to keep yourself out of trouble.

Hint: if you’re not good enough to stay alive, get some defensive abilities/stats.

Well thanks for the free advice but I actually wasn’t making the proposal for myself.

It pretty much comes down to, the more players feel gated from content, the more likely they are to leave, this has a knockon effect for future development, which hurts anyone who cares about a healthy future for the game.

Anet have expressed that they wish to be more inclusive in 2013, I simply suggested a method to achieve that with instances.

Also it is ‘weak’ players that need good gear the most, in order to compensate for their shortcomings…. players who fancy themselves as awesome should by all rights be able to run in the white armor at the instance level and should definitely not have to hedge bets with ‘must be lvl 80, experienced and in full exotic’.

Kakeru.2873:

Kacigarka.5176:

Svetli.4276:

with this option you killed random party’s in the game

And thats okey. Explorable dungeons ment to be hard and for skilled groups. Not for randoms full of not coordinated players

They are not for random party’s who just waypont rush bosses. So what is the problem?

So for people like me who has all of his friends quit the game within the first three months, such just stop doing dungeons because I don’t have people to do them with. Ok then so your basically telling me to get into a skilled group or quit.

You could always join an unskilled group. Or a group thats a mix who are not elitist (most guilds ever) and make some new friends.

I generally don’t see this being a problem except with some encounters (AC P2 and CoF P2 come to mind).

Ex-GW1 players may forget that you couldn’t res shrine rush either. If you died, you either had to wait for a res or wait till the party wiped. In some dungeons, a wipe meant you had to restart completely.

If you played another MMO, then you must forget that most other MMO’s dungeons do not let you graveyard/waypoint/res shrine rush. Once you wipe, the encounter resets and you res at graveyard.

Waypoint rushing is a cheap mechanic, that is unfortunately almost required for some parts of dungeons.

I guess im in favor of the change.
Just please add more waypoints to the dungeons. If we cannot rez in combat, and the group cant get the one or two people rezzed before the group wipes, theres going to be more runbacks. A simple quality of life addition would be a few more waypoints.

BTW, rez orbs will now be a commodity item. Anyone smell the gem store reering its head again for a bit more profit?! :p Its okay though.