Guild Wars 2

Conncept.7638:

infantrydiv.1620:

Actually, thief is one of the only classes where you are better off not spamming all of your weapon skills at once. In order to win a 1v1, most stealth builds absolutely require getting an initial jump upon the opponent. It’s also a very fragile class and you can wind up dead instantly in any group fight if you aren’t careful. The thief is still good at 1v1ing against some classes, but I don’t know what is going on in your head for you to say that thief is the least risky class to play. Maybe only in roaming WvW. And roaming doesn’t really have much point. Thief is very risky in tPvP.

Many top players say that thief is one of the hardest classes to play effectively as, especially in tPvP where disengaging doesn’t really get you anything other than a decapped point.

I’m going to take a gamble and guess that by your idiotic response you have only played thief in hotjoin pvp or in WvW. I’m also going to guess that you aren’t even involved enough with actual PvP to see just how easy it is to pick up many other classes like warrior or necromancer compared to thief.

You’ve never even played a single class besides the thief have you? There isn’t any class where you are better off button-mashing. The very definition of ‘button-mashing’ or ‘face rolling’ or whatever else you want to call it is that it is an ineffective use of resources. That doesn’t change the fact that thief boils down to getting a jump on your opponent, and a series of buttons in sequence or combination, that anyone with fifteen spare minutes and a guide can figure out. And these two simple thing bring the class’ greatest output to bear, with no risk if you don’t screw up, and minimal risk if you do. And neither of these requirements take any skill whatsoever so long as there is not counterplay to stealth.

The simple fact. Positioning, timing, execution, everything it takes to set up a perfect thief gank, requires no skill so long as you can do it all from a status which protects you from all counterplay. And requires no risk, so long as you can return to that state so frequently after a mistake.

I doubt any top players have ever said that, and if they had I wouldn’t care. The game is a job for them, their opinion is based on an entirely different system of rules than the game the rest of us play. You want that to apply? Become a professional gamer, talk with a professional gamer. You are not, neither am I.

And you can assume whatever you want about me or whatever else you like, your bad habit, and not my problem.

Actually, I main necromancer (I have more hours of playtime + pvp on it). And it is a hell of a lot easier to play than thief. Also, I don’t know what you are on about claiming that only professional gamers can talk about actual balance instead of just screaming that stealth is the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I also don’t know where you got the idea that there actually are professional gamers playing GW2 pvp. LOL.

If you knew anything about this game’s pvp, you would know that builds that bring more team support are almost always better for it. A pure glass cannon thief CAN insta-gank glass and medium toughness builds. Yet, strangely enough, it doesn’t matter. This is why you don’t see these types of thieves in high level competitive play.

The other point I’d like to make: certain classes excel at 1v1, certain classes excel at support. Thief and mesmer and the primary 1v1 classes of GW2. Thieves are meant to be assassins. However, 1v1 is not important AT ALL in this game. Roaming in WvW is maybe fun, but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose. A build dedicated to only 1v1 fighting will lose tournaments. It’ll also be bad for PvE, it’ll be bad for zerging. Earlier today I fought a couple of tournaments against a pure glass thief on my glass guardian. This guy could down me pretty fast, but he brought nothing to his team other than that ability. Whenever my team showed up to help he would die before he could stomp me. So he was actually a negative for his team, when he could have played something like guardian or ranger and brought massive team utility

I’ve actually given up my thief currently because D/P is so useless in tournament play. If you were complaining about S/D thief, you might make some sense, because the almost permanent evasion up time on that build is pretty silly and actually has no real counter, unlike stealth.

infantrydiv.1620:

Conncept.7638:

infantrydiv.1620:

snipd

stabd

moretextquotes

And this kind of nails my point home, this is a person who plays multiple classes, including thief, and isn’t dedicated to the thief class, but understands where we currently sit in terms of utility in various aspects of the game. I feel that most people who have leveled more than one class and have learned the different interactions between them have something of a better understanding of all this nonsense then the people just yelling for nerfs/hard counters.

infantrydiv.1620:

Actually, I main necromancer (I have more hours of playtime + pvp on it). And it is a hell of a lot easier to play than thief. Also, I don’t know what you are on about claiming that only professional gamers can talk about actual balance instead of just screaming that stealth is the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I also don’t know where you got the idea that there actually are professional gamers playing GW2 pvp. LOL.

If you knew anything about this game’s pvp, you would know that builds that bring more team support are almost always better for it. A pure glass cannon thief CAN insta-gank glass and medium toughness builds. Yet, strangely enough, it doesn’t matter. This is why you don’t see these types of thieves in high level competitive play.

The other point I’d like to make: certain classes excel at 1v1, certain classes excel at support. Thief and mesmer and the primary 1v1 classes of GW2. Thieves are meant to be assassins. However, 1v1 is not important AT ALL in this game. Roaming in WvW is maybe fun, but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose. A build dedicated to only 1v1 fighting will lose tournaments. It’ll also be bad for PvE, it’ll be bad for zerging. Earlier today I fought a couple of tournaments against a pure glass thief on my glass guardian. This guy could down me pretty fast, but he brought nothing to his team other than that ability. Whenever my team showed up to help he would die before he could stomp me. So he was actually a negative for his team, when he could have played something like guardian or ranger and brought massive team utility

Once again….

It

Does

Not

Matter

What you think or even claim to know about high level play. And it especially has no bearing whatsoever on what needs to be done with the game. You’re an armchair professional, with neither experience nor research to back up what you claim.

A game is an interactive experience, if any portion of a game contains something which at any time removes or prevents interaction, that is a problem which needs to be addressed. Stealth removes interaction, all interaction in fact. It does not matter what level of PvP play or parts of WvW in which it is useful.

And I noticed, you still have yet to actually name any of these direct counters to stealth which you claim exist. All you’ve done is quote professional gamers ‘have said’ without even a name to back it up, let alone citation.

So please, if there are such counters, enlighten me.

raahk.2786:

Burnfall.9573:

— snip —

I’m sorry, is this satire?

Don’t take Burn seriously. He’s a bit … burned out. *puts on sunglasses*

Conncept.7638:

infantrydiv.1620:

Actually, I main necromancer (I have more hours of playtime + pvp on it). And it is a hell of a lot easier to play than thief. Also, I don’t know what you are on about claiming that only professional gamers can talk about actual balance instead of just screaming that stealth is the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I also don’t know where you got the idea that there actually are professional gamers playing GW2 pvp. LOL.

If you knew anything about this game’s pvp, you would know that builds that bring more team support are almost always better for it. A pure glass cannon thief CAN insta-gank glass and medium toughness builds. Yet, strangely enough, it doesn’t matter. This is why you don’t see these types of thieves in high level competitive play.

The other point I’d like to make: certain classes excel at 1v1, certain classes excel at support. Thief and mesmer and the primary 1v1 classes of GW2. Thieves are meant to be assassins. However, 1v1 is not important AT ALL in this game. Roaming in WvW is maybe fun, but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose. A build dedicated to only 1v1 fighting will lose tournaments. It’ll also be bad for PvE, it’ll be bad for zerging. Earlier today I fought a couple of tournaments against a pure glass thief on my glass guardian. This guy could down me pretty fast, but he brought nothing to his team other than that ability. Whenever my team showed up to help he would die before he could stomp me. So he was actually a negative for his team, when he could have played something like guardian or ranger and brought massive team utility

Once again….

It

Does

Not

Matter

What you think or even claim to know about high level play. And has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what needs to be done with the game. A game is an interactive experience, if any portion of a game contains something which at any time removes or prevents interaction, that is a problem which needs to be addressed. Stealth removes interaction, all interaction in fact. It does not matter what level of PvP play or parts of WvW in which it is useful.

And I noticed, you still have yet to actually name any of these direct counters to stealth which you claim exist. So please, enlighten me.

Stealth literally does not remove interaction in any capacity and I already stated how in a previous post, please go back and read it.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Felices Bladewing.3914:

Nuka Cola.8520:

raahk.2786:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Of all the classes in this game, thief would be the #1 choice to go full zerker if you decide to play a zerker class… just don’t be stupid enough to zerg in groups, duh

Actually, you’re a lot safer in a group zerg then roaming solo as a berserker, as the large amount of players on either end provides a better cover for actually doing damage.

And most thief players will go zerker/valk anyways, since our class has hardly any build diversity.

you don’t cover from anything, you have stealth for that.

yeah stealth for maximal 11 secs with standing still 5secs wow 0.o impressive. you are mixing too many builts in your complaints (backstab is D/D, the nerf goes to S/D, the “perma” invis is D/P) and i dont even bring out the traits you are also mixing.

As a thief i dont want a buff tbh the nerf is most for sPvP so i can look over it all i want is a rework of “steal” and more possibility playstyles with the weapons we already have…… i and think even other classplayer could agree with that

you have 10sec of stealth in a normal BS builds from refuge, this isn’t enough to disengage whole zergs?

this is what i meant with 11sec for 5sec standing still, i assume you are messmer from your post so if you use the 5th GS right after you see a thief goes invis you will properbly knock him out of refuge so that is invis is maybe 2 secs or if you have good timing he is revealt instanly

liefbread.9513:

Conncept.7638:

infantrydiv.1620:

Actually, I main necromancer (I have more hours of playtime + pvp on it). And it is a hell of a lot easier to play than thief. Also, I don’t know what you are on about claiming that only professional gamers can talk about actual balance instead of just screaming that stealth is the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I also don’t know where you got the idea that there actually are professional gamers playing GW2 pvp. LOL.

If you knew anything about this game’s pvp, you would know that builds that bring more team support are almost always better for it. A pure glass cannon thief CAN insta-gank glass and medium toughness builds. Yet, strangely enough, it doesn’t matter. This is why you don’t see these types of thieves in high level competitive play.

The other point I’d like to make: certain classes excel at 1v1, certain classes excel at support. Thief and mesmer and the primary 1v1 classes of GW2. Thieves are meant to be assassins. However, 1v1 is not important AT ALL in this game. Roaming in WvW is maybe fun, but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose. A build dedicated to only 1v1 fighting will lose tournaments. It’ll also be bad for PvE, it’ll be bad for zerging. Earlier today I fought a couple of tournaments against a pure glass thief on my glass guardian. This guy could down me pretty fast, but he brought nothing to his team other than that ability. Whenever my team showed up to help he would die before he could stomp me. So he was actually a negative for his team, when he could have played something like guardian or ranger and brought massive team utility

Once again….

It

Does

Not

Matter

What you think or even claim to know about high level play. And has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what needs to be done with the game. A game is an interactive experience, if any portion of a game contains something which at any time removes or prevents interaction, that is a problem which needs to be addressed. Stealth removes interaction, all interaction in fact. It does not matter what level of PvP play or parts of WvW in which it is useful.

And I noticed, you still have yet to actually name any of these direct counters to stealth which you claim exist. So please, enlighten me.

Stealth literally does not remove interaction in any capacity and I already stated how in a previous post, please go back and read it.

Well then, if you can, literally explain how that is so, because I have checked your posts and all you have stated are your expectations about how people should and should not play in your little world. None of your business in the first place if I may say, if the majority of players do not wish to to play a certain way, and feel forced to by how others play, that’s a problem not a solution. There should be choice, in a properly made game, there would be. The game is made for the players, not the players for the game.

So if there is a mechanical counter to this, which does not apply to all abilities in kind, what is it?

EDIT: And if you say AoE, wait and dodge, or don’t try to solo them in the first place, I’m just going to laugh at you.

I know this is a bit off topic, bu i would like that on the update on October 15 Anet could fix this armor bug in which the back of my character clips througth the armor layer (Link to image below).

!http://i.imgur.com/SVBMXQx.jpg!

As you can see, this is the Ascalonian catacombs medium armor, so it is a really important and hard to earn set, so i would like to see it fixe so i cant see my back throught the armor because its very disgusting to see for me.

Conncept.7638:

liefbread.9513:

Conncept.7638:

infantrydiv.1620:

Actually, I main necromancer (I have more hours of playtime + pvp on it). And it is a hell of a lot easier to play than thief. Also, I don’t know what you are on about claiming that only professional gamers can talk about actual balance instead of just screaming that stealth is the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I also don’t know where you got the idea that there actually are professional gamers playing GW2 pvp. LOL.

If you knew anything about this game’s pvp, you would know that builds that bring more team support are almost always better for it. A pure glass cannon thief CAN insta-gank glass and medium toughness builds. Yet, strangely enough, it doesn’t matter. This is why you don’t see these types of thieves in high level competitive play.

The other point I’d like to make: certain classes excel at 1v1, certain classes excel at support. Thief and mesmer and the primary 1v1 classes of GW2. Thieves are meant to be assassins. However, 1v1 is not important AT ALL in this game. Roaming in WvW is maybe fun, but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose. A build dedicated to only 1v1 fighting will lose tournaments. It’ll also be bad for PvE, it’ll be bad for zerging. Earlier today I fought a couple of tournaments against a pure glass thief on my glass guardian. This guy could down me pretty fast, but he brought nothing to his team other than that ability. Whenever my team showed up to help he would die before he could stomp me. So he was actually a negative for his team, when he could have played something like guardian or ranger and brought massive team utility

Once again….

It

Does

Not

Matter

What you think or even claim to know about high level play. And has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what needs to be done with the game. A game is an interactive experience, if any portion of a game contains something which at any time removes or prevents interaction, that is a problem which needs to be addressed. Stealth removes interaction, all interaction in fact. It does not matter what level of PvP play or parts of WvW in which it is useful.

And I noticed, you still have yet to actually name any of these direct counters to stealth which you claim exist. So please, enlighten me.

Stealth literally does not remove interaction in any capacity and I already stated how in a previous post, please go back and read it.

Well then, if you can, literally explain how that is so, because I have checked your posts and all you have stated are your expectations about how people should and should not play in your little world. None of your business in the first place if I may say, if the majority of players do not wish to to play a certain way, and feel forced to by how others play, that’s a problem not a solution. There should be choice, in a properly made game, there would be.

So if there is a mechanical counter to this, which does not apply to all abilities in kind, what is it?

EDIT: And if you say AoE, wait and dodge, or don’t try to solo them in the first place, I’m just going to laugh at you.

It does not need a mechanical counter, AOE does hit them, stealth does not immediately clear all conditions (unless traited specifically for removing one condition every 3 seconds.) and regular attacks do as well… It doesn’t need a specific counter to remove it because every normal skill set can still interact with a stealthed individual (excluding a handful of abilities that cannot be cast without a target)

A thief swinging a dagger, will hit a stealthed player in front of them, a warrior swinging a greatsword or doing an area knockdown will still knock down a stealthed player…

That said, you keep saying that “no one can say what’s good for balance unless they’re a professional player.” and quite frankly… I haven’t seen your name posted in any leader board or tournament… ever. So I don’t think you have any more authority on this subject than anyone else. Anet posted this because they wanted to give the community a heads up and they wanted the communities opinion, you have no right to tell people their opinion is unimportant because they are not “good enough” at the game… You can provide counter arguments, but thus far you have not, you’re just insulting everyone…

Conncept.7638:

liefbread.9513:

Conncept.7638:

infantrydiv.1620:

Actually, I main necromancer (I have more hours of playtime + pvp on it). And it is a hell of a lot easier to play than thief. Also, I don’t know what you are on about claiming that only professional gamers can talk about actual balance instead of just screaming that stealth is the most overpowered mechanic in the game. I also don’t know where you got the idea that there actually are professional gamers playing GW2 pvp. LOL.

If you knew anything about this game’s pvp, you would know that builds that bring more team support are almost always better for it. A pure glass cannon thief CAN insta-gank glass and medium toughness builds. Yet, strangely enough, it doesn’t matter. This is why you don’t see these types of thieves in high level competitive play.

The other point I’d like to make: certain classes excel at 1v1, certain classes excel at support. Thief and mesmer and the primary 1v1 classes of GW2. Thieves are meant to be assassins. However, 1v1 is not important AT ALL in this game. Roaming in WvW is maybe fun, but it doesn’t actually serve a purpose. A build dedicated to only 1v1 fighting will lose tournaments. It’ll also be bad for PvE, it’ll be bad for zerging. Earlier today I fought a couple of tournaments against a pure glass thief on my glass guardian. This guy could down me pretty fast, but he brought nothing to his team other than that ability. Whenever my team showed up to help he would die before he could stomp me. So he was actually a negative for his team, when he could have played something like guardian or ranger and brought massive team utility

Once again….

It

Does

Not

Matter

What you think or even claim to know about high level play. And has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what needs to be done with the game. A game is an interactive experience, if any portion of a game contains something which at any time removes or prevents interaction, that is a problem which needs to be addressed. Stealth removes interaction, all interaction in fact. It does not matter what level of PvP play or parts of WvW in which it is useful.

And I noticed, you still have yet to actually name any of these direct counters to stealth which you claim exist. So please, enlighten me.

Stealth literally does not remove interaction in any capacity and I already stated how in a previous post, please go back and read it.

Well then, if you can, literally explain how that is so, because I have checked your posts and all you have stated are your expectations about how people should and should not play in your little world. None of your business in the first place if I may say, if the majority of players do not wish to to play a certain way, and feel forced to by how others play, that’s a problem not a solution. There should be choice, in a properly made game, there would be.

So if there is a mechanical counter to this, which does not apply to all abilities in kind, what is it?

EDIT: And if you say AoE, wait and dodge, or don’t try to solo them in the first place, I’m just going to laugh at you.

Use a long channel skill, knock them out of smoke fields, immobilize/stun/fear or use the myriad of control skill in this game that will force a thief to use a cooldown. Another tactic I have used on thieves with my warrior is intentionally eating a backstab which did a grand total of 3.5k damage to me (from behind) to which I responded with a pin-down, combustive shot, arcing arrow, to which he went down before I had a chance to land my shield bash and eviscerate. I would like to note that even though I used aoe skills I was not guessing where the thief was, I baited him out, controlled him, and countered him.

liefbread.9513:

If I’m fighting a guardian I’m going to be blind every time I go into stealth, so those backstabs will never land.

If I’m fighting a mesmer, chances are they’ll be greatsword channeling me and will know where I am running when I stealth (GS3 sweeps me away + knockdown, they also have access to focus 4 and sword 2 or 3 allows them to evade my attacks).

If I’m fighting a warrior they can cleave with their lovely greatsword swings, block my backstab with their offhand shield, and proceed to CC me into the ground (or they’re running hammer/mace and will just CC me into the ground off the bat).

Necros can fear me (yes, even when in stealth) and load me up with conditions.

Elementalists can blast AOE, drop massive fields, and generally be evasive (once again unless we’re both in zerker gear and I just one shot/two shot them, that’s their own fault).

Longbow rangers can outposition/range us and have their own suite of CC, as well as being able to swap to SB or axes for sweeping attacks and conditions.

Engineers have their own suite of AOE attacks (bomb kit?) and massive condition damage. Everyone has a way of dealing with us being in stealth…

Here’s the post I was specifically referencing, ways that various professions interact with stealthed players. (the game is about interacting with the players, not countering their abilities, in my experience and personal unprofessional opinion)

In addition, most classes, depending on how they’re built, take at least 3 (usually 4) backstabs to kill (assuming they’re not running full zerker, which I already gave my thoughts on). Even in a permastealth build, that’s a minimum of 12 seconds that I am not in stealth, given every classes access to CC, dodges, conditions, blocks, invuln, and AOE I personally think that 12s is enough of a time window to do something to decommission someone/interact with their opponent in some capacity.

liefbread.9513:

Burnfall.9573:

If Arena.net was to sum all the posts in one gigantic post, it would read, “Thief class core mechanics Nerf is Overdue!” – “slap on the wrist Nerf” is not allowed.

Arena.net, isn’t it too obvious.. the only class who gets the most Injustice Backlash in all thiefis blance/stealth thread is the thief class?

Than if it isn’t obvious, than why you remain Silent and continue in Justifying and Contributing (behind the sceen) more overpower tools to this Injust Overpower class?

Not forgetting intentionally rewarding this class with more undeserving rewards.
Torment, "does that ring a bell’?

After 1 year+, i realize all these great posts and threads concerning thief overpowerdness are just another trash to be thrown in the trashcan.

So many wonderful and beautiful ideas in oppinions, suggestion and recommendations to thief class balance and adjustments, are just reasons for Arena.net to reward them more.

As i stated many times already, “Thief is Arena.net” and Warrior is thier “side-kick”.

In other word, we are all “kitten”

So to the remaining non-Favorite justice blelieves, what are our options,

Should we continue in believing anything these Ego-savy Selfish Prideful Injustice Practicioners have to say? or "turn the other cheek or even; as the saying goes, “Turn away from those who practice Injustice and follow those who Emcbraces Justice”?

You have the power.
You hold the answer.
The choice is in ur hands..

That was really wordy and I don’t know exactly what you’re saying.

But if you follow the general trend of “stealth classes” in any game… like… any game ever… You’ll see that we’re always the “OMG UBER OP CLASS” (no matter the situation) there are always people calling for nerfs and there will always be a core group of people from that class fighting against it.

Are you talking about the class of thief as in “they are thieves therefore evil?” like, not even on a “this class is full of evil players who abuse the system” basis, but on a “this class is supposed to represent some malicious entity in the storyline of the game” kind of level?

Do you see these “buffs” as rewards? Do you really see thieves making use of torment… ever? I don’t.

I dunno, maybe I’m missing something here, but it seems to me you talked circles around yourself trying to make your statements sound important… when in reality they just came out garbled. It would be amazing if you could clarify your intent a bit.

No matter how many times i rewrite it,

it all comes about the same,

In othe word,

this is the best i can do.

Burnfall.9573:

liefbread.9513:

Burnfall.9573:

If Arena.net was to sum all the posts in one gigantic post, it would read, “Thief class core mechanics Nerf is Overdue!” – “slap on the wrist Nerf” is not allowed.

Arena.net, isn’t it too obvious.. the only class who gets the most Injustice Backlash in all thiefis blance/stealth thread is the thief class?

Than if it isn’t obvious, than why you remain Silent and continue in Justifying and Contributing (behind the sceen) more overpower tools to this Injust Overpower class?

Not forgetting intentionally rewarding this class with more undeserving rewards.
Torment, "does that ring a bell’?

After 1 year+, i realize all these great posts and threads concerning thief overpowerdness are just another trash to be thrown in the trashcan.

So many wonderful and beautiful ideas in oppinions, suggestion and recommendations to thief class balance and adjustments, are just reasons for Arena.net to reward them more.

As i stated many times already, “Thief is Arena.net” and Warrior is thier “side-kick”.

In other word, we are all “kitten”

So to the remaining non-Favorite justice blelieves, what are our options,

Should we continue in believing anything these Ego-savy Selfish Prideful Injustice Practicioners have to say? or "turn the other cheek or even; as the saying goes, “Turn away from those who practice Injustice and follow those who Emcbraces Justice”?

You have the power.
You hold the answer.
The choice is in ur hands..

That was really wordy and I don’t know exactly what you’re saying.

But if you follow the general trend of “stealth classes” in any game… like… any game ever… You’ll see that we’re always the “OMG UBER OP CLASS” (no matter the situation) there are always people calling for nerfs and there will always be a core group of people from that class fighting against it.

Are you talking about the class of thief as in “they are thieves therefore evil?” like, not even on a “this class is full of evil players who abuse the system” basis, but on a “this class is supposed to represent some malicious entity in the storyline of the game” kind of level?

Do you see these “buffs” as rewards? Do you really see thieves making use of torment… ever? I don’t.

I dunno, maybe I’m missing something here, but it seems to me you talked circles around yourself trying to make your statements sound important… when in reality they just came out garbled. It would be amazing if you could clarify your intent a bit.

No matter how many times i rewrite it,

it all comes about the same,

In othe word,

this is the best i can do.

For justice.

liefbread.9513:

Burnfall.9573:

liefbread.9513:

Burnfall.9573:

If Arena.net was to sum all the posts in one gigantic post, it would read, “Thief class core mechanics Nerf is Overdue!” – “slap on the wrist Nerf” is not allowed.

Arena.net, isn’t it too obvious.. the only class who gets the most Injustice Backlash in all thiefis blance/stealth thread is the thief class?

Than if it isn’t obvious, than why you remain Silent and continue in Justifying and Contributing (behind the sceen) more overpower tools to this Injust Overpower class?

Not forgetting intentionally rewarding this class with more undeserving rewards.
Torment, "does that ring a bell’?

After 1 year+, i realize all these great posts and threads concerning thief overpowerdness are just another trash to be thrown in the trashcan.

So many wonderful and beautiful ideas in oppinions, suggestion and recommendations to thief class balance and adjustments, are just reasons for Arena.net to reward them more.

As i stated many times already, “Thief is Arena.net” and Warrior is thier “side-kick”.

In other word, we are all “kitten”

So to the remaining non-Favorite justice blelieves, what are our options,

Should we continue in believing anything these Ego-savy Selfish Prideful Injustice Practicioners have to say? or "turn the other cheek or even; as the saying goes, “Turn away from those who practice Injustice and follow those who Emcbraces Justice”?

You have the power.
You hold the answer.
The choice is in ur hands..

That was really wordy and I don’t know exactly what you’re saying.

But if you follow the general trend of “stealth classes” in any game… like… any game ever… You’ll see that we’re always the “OMG UBER OP CLASS” (no matter the situation) there are always people calling for nerfs and there will always be a core group of people from that class fighting against it.

Are you talking about the class of thief as in “they are thieves therefore evil?” like, not even on a “this class is full of evil players who abuse the system” basis, but on a “this class is supposed to represent some malicious entity in the storyline of the game” kind of level?

Do you see these “buffs” as rewards? Do you really see thieves making use of torment… ever? I don’t.

I dunno, maybe I’m missing something here, but it seems to me you talked circles around yourself trying to make your statements sound important… when in reality they just came out garbled. It would be amazing if you could clarify your intent a bit.

No matter how many times i rewrite it,

it all comes about the same,

In othe word,

this is the best i can do.

For great justice.

ftfy

Kirschwasser.3972:

liefbread.9513:

Burnfall.9573:

liefbread.9513:

Burnfall.9573:

If Arena.net was to sum all the posts in one gigantic post, it would read, “Thief class core mechanics Nerf is Overdue!” – “slap on the wrist Nerf” is not allowed.

Arena.net, isn’t it too obvious.. the only class who gets the most Injustice Backlash in all thiefis blance/stealth thread is the thief class?

Than if it isn’t obvious, than why you remain Silent and continue in Justifying and Contributing (behind the sceen) more overpower tools to this Injust Overpower class?

Not forgetting intentionally rewarding this class with more undeserving rewards.
Torment, "does that ring a bell’?

After 1 year+, i realize all these great posts and threads concerning thief overpowerdness are just another trash to be thrown in the trashcan.

So many wonderful and beautiful ideas in oppinions, suggestion and recommendations to thief class balance and adjustments, are just reasons for Arena.net to reward them more.

As i stated many times already, “Thief is Arena.net” and Warrior is thier “side-kick”.

In other word, we are all “kitten”

So to the remaining non-Favorite justice blelieves, what are our options,

Should we continue in believing anything these Ego-savy Selfish Prideful Injustice Practicioners have to say? or "turn the other cheek or even; as the saying goes, “Turn away from those who practice Injustice and follow those who Emcbraces Justice”?

You have the power.
You hold the answer.
The choice is in ur hands..

That was really wordy and I don’t know exactly what you’re saying.

But if you follow the general trend of “stealth classes” in any game… like… any game ever… You’ll see that we’re always the “OMG UBER OP CLASS” (no matter the situation) there are always people calling for nerfs and there will always be a core group of people from that class fighting against it.

Are you talking about the class of thief as in “they are thieves therefore evil?” like, not even on a “this class is full of evil players who abuse the system” basis, but on a “this class is supposed to represent some malicious entity in the storyline of the game” kind of level?

Do you see these “buffs” as rewards? Do you really see thieves making use of torment… ever? I don’t.

I dunno, maybe I’m missing something here, but it seems to me you talked circles around yourself trying to make your statements sound important… when in reality they just came out garbled. It would be amazing if you could clarify your intent a bit.

No matter how many times i rewrite it,

it all comes about the same,

In othe word,

this is the best i can do.

For great justice.

ftfy

Ty

Maugetarr.6823:

Use a long channel skill, knock them out of smoke fields, immobilize/stun/fear or use the myriad of control skill in this game that will force a thief to use a cooldown. Another tactic I have used on thieves with my warrior is intentionally eating a backstab which did a grand total of 3.5k damage to me (from behind) to which I responded with a pin-down, combustive shot, arcing arrow, to which he went down before I had a chance to land my shield bash and eviscerate. I would like to note that even though I used aoe skills I was not guessing where the thief was, I baited him out, controlled him, and countered him.

Targeted channel skills are available almost… nowhere, and only work through one completion of the channel. That extra second is real helpful to scepter Eles and GS mesmers.

Immobilize does not cause interrupt and therefore does not stop stealth, and it’s duration on most abilities is also laughable. Additionally, I’ve never seen a stealth build without shadow’s embrace, look it up, it’s important.

The other effects you have listed are interrupts and control effects. All abilities can be interrupted, and everything else in the game has counters in addition to the constant danger of interrupts, as you recall I stated ‘which do not apply to all abilities in kind’.

Nice try.

And finally, you are built specifically to counter a thief’s backstab, well sort of, I can already see how to get out of that. Regardless, how is that any different than putting in direct applications of reveal for people to build with? Do you not find that the least bit hypocritical?

liefbread.9513:

It does not need a mechanical counter, AOE does hit them, stealth does not immediately clear all conditions (unless traited specifically for removing one condition every 3 seconds.) and regular attacks do as well… It doesn’t need a specific counter to remove it because every normal skill set can still interact with a stealthed individual (excluding a handful of abilities that cannot be cast without a target)

A thief swinging a dagger, will hit a stealthed player in front of them, a warrior swinging a greatsword or doing an area knockdown will still knock down a stealthed player…

As I said earlier, anybody who states that ‘cooking the air’ is a counter to stealth, in a game where your only resource is your cooldowns, will not be taken seriously.

So, good one, thanks for the laugh.

(it’s not cooking the air if you probe with an autoattack first, if you hit your auto attack chain will go into its second portion)

Ranger

What I noticed about the Ranger’s weapons skills is that the dagger does not work well with its other skills, specifically, Stalker’s Strike.
To me, Stalker’s Strike is a goofy skill. Sure, it’s a pretty good by itself, but with the other weapon skills, no. If I have an axe in my main-hand and the dagger in the off-hand, I’m not going to run up to my target and stab it whereas I can just keep chucking axes at my enemy and chill it so the monster won’t get to me at all.
For the sword, it’s #3 skill is an exact copy of the dagger’s Stalker Strike, or Stalker’s Strike is an exact copy of the sword’s #3 skill. Why would I want to dodge and poison the same target twice?
What my idea is for an improvement for the dagger’s Stalker Strike is a retreat skill. Remove the poison application it already has and instead of evading, you strike, adding maybe a 1/2 second daze then retreat backwards. With this change, I believe works better with the main hand skills; chuck axes, enemy gets close, use dagger skill that retreats and dazes, keep chucking axes; or have a sword, doing sword stuff, you’re getting low on health, you use dagger retreat skill and you quickly swap out for a ranged weapon. With this, daggers could be seen more often on a Ranger when the October patch arrives than today.

liefbread.9513:

(it’s not cooking the air if you probe with an autoattack first, if you hit your auto attack chain will go into its second portion)

(Not all weapons have chain attacks, in fact entire classes lack chain autos. And even so, it’s still dependent on luck, weren’t we talking about how much skill it takes to be a thief earlier? How is that so when your principal mechanic is countered by dumb luck rather than skilled play? And I get enough randomized crap from the gemstore thank you very much. It can stay out of combat.)

And frankly, I’m not entertaining this ridiculous claim anymore. AoE spam worked in other games, it does not work in GW2, I have already explained why and it is a fact of the games mechanics. Relying on guesswork, even with a basic idea of your opponents tactics, is still relying on guesswork, and has no place in a game which claims to have tactically driven PvP.

Has anybody mentioned in this thread yet about Pet stats and Ascended equipment. Ranger is getting the short end of the stick with this new gear tier.

(what randomized crap are you buying from the gem store, that’s supposed to be where your stuff is guaranteed… Also thieves will either try to be getting away, or try to get behind you, it doesn’t take stealth removal to find a thief)

ALSO I just reread the patch notes, I was unclear on exactly how sic’em is going to work and I’m pretty ok with it actually. It’s a targeted ability so it won’t hit you in stealth anyway. It’ll only hit you when you’re out of stealth…. I really don’t have a problem with that, I do think thieves (and stealth) need a re-work though.

Levetty.1279:

Has anybody mentioned in this thread yet about Pet stats and Ascended equipment. Ranger is getting the short end of the stick with this new gear tier.

Rangers always get the short end of the stick, don’t you know? Anet hates the middle class. I mean… Medium armor classes.

It took some thinking, but I think I have something relevant for you Conncept, it may not be what you’re looking for… but the average stealth is 3-4s, assuming you backstab you have 4 seconds of revealed, assuming you chain another cloak and dagger you get revealed before you disappear again (its like, a second, but you are visible). If you use heartseeker through gunpowder… well there’s a blind circle on the ground, if you’re in a shadow refuge…. well a lot of attacks sweep through a shadow refuge.

I don’t know if you consider that “reasonable” but it seems reasonable to me.

Regardless, for some reason I’m coming to like you… you make me think.

(all those things reveal your position allowing you to be targeted)

SynfulChaot.3169:

Knote.2904:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I hold that elementalists and thieves are equally weak while levelling until they receive their traits as well.

Wow… no, just no.

Don’t you even go there, you obviously aren’t playing correctly.

Thief is probably by far the most efficient and easiest class to solo/level with and Elementalist is probably the hardest.

Thief is fine if you only ever aggro one at a time. Maybe two. More than that, especially at low level, and you’re kittened. As you level, though, and gain traits then it gets better. But at low level thief is just too squish.

raahk.2786:

Nah, wrongo. Thief is pretty easy to level using Sword/Pistol, I’d have to say the easiest is again, the pve king, warrior, while mesmer is definitely the hardest, or at least the most tedious. Most mesmer players say that their class doesn’t become fun until about level forty or so.

No. They really don’t. As a mesmer you practically require the traits to be useful and fun. And the useful utilities as well. Before that is a drag.

No, you obviously don’t know how to play your thief then.

It’s by far the easiest and most forgiving class to level (next to necro). I can literally take on 20 mobs.

Knote.2904:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Knote.2904:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I hold that elementalists and thieves are equally weak while levelling until they receive their traits as well.

Wow… no, just no.

Don’t you even go there, you obviously aren’t playing correctly.

Thief is probably by far the most efficient and easiest class to solo/level with and Elementalist is probably the hardest.

Thief is fine if you only ever aggro one at a time. Maybe two. More than that, especially at low level, and you’re kittened. As you level, though, and gain traits then it gets better. But at low level thief is just too squish.

raahk.2786:

Nah, wrongo. Thief is pretty easy to level using Sword/Pistol, I’d have to say the easiest is again, the pve king, warrior, while mesmer is definitely the hardest, or at least the most tedious. Most mesmer players say that their class doesn’t become fun until about level forty or so.

No. They really don’t. As a mesmer you practically require the traits to be useful and fun. And the useful utilities as well. Before that is a drag.

No, you obviously don’t know how to play your thief then.

It’s by far the easiest and most forgiving class to level. I can literally take on 20 mobs.

literally?

And yet nothing done to address the poor state that ele is in… like someone said b4 lowest hp yet no armor, agies, clones or stealth… forced to go certain lines to litterally not get one shot.. come on Anet do some real work and fix a broken class. We see what you did with warrior, that took a year, now to get the rest of the classes there.

Yay for Ele conjured buffs! Will we be finally seeing some condimentalist play with conjures especially the forgotten Earth Shield? One could only hope.

Now please rework the Fire and Earth traits. More than half of them suck so bad, putting all of them into one trait and they’re still not event worth taking. Okay, that was too much, but I hope you get my point. >.<

TheZeus.8617:

And yet nothing done to address the poor state that ele is in… like someone said b4 lowest hp yet no armor, agies, clones or stealth… forced to go certain lines to litterally not get one shot.. come on Anet do some real work and fix a broken class. We see what you did with warrior, that took a year, now to get the rest of the classes there.

They should just give them mesmer base health and call it a day.

Knote.2904:

No, you obviously don’t know how to play your thief then.

It’s by far the easiest and most forgiving class to level (next to necro). I can literally take on 20 mobs.

Don’t assume I don’t know what I’m doing and I won’t assume you’re an elitist that doesn’t know what they’re talking about either, kk?

JonPeters.5630:

Just finished reading through all 12 pages. Thanks to everyone for 12 pages of positive and constructive feedback. Keep it up and keep in mind these are updates from just the skills team so try to focus on skills traits and other combat related stuff.

Jon

See what happens when you guys open up a bit and communicate more fluidly with the community? Yeah, that whole approach of “we cant tell you anything, but we’re working on stuff” never works. To be completely honest, if you guys say what you’re trying to do and open it up with discussion there will be very little backlash if you clearly explain why it didnt end up being put in the game. People won’t QQ nearly as much as you think if you guys worked this way. It may take a bit more effort on your end, but the community will be much more receptive and actually get the feeling you’re at least doing something while listening. The sooner you guys drop that approach totally is the day this game really starts to move to the places it can go.

i got hit by a few stealth traps today. they actually made wvw challenging and fun. bring on more anti stealth skills. i don’t spec high stealth skills so I guess that’s why

SynfulChaot.3169:

Knote.2904:

No, you obviously don’t know how to play your thief then.

It’s by far the easiest and most forgiving class to level (next to necro). I can literally take on 20 mobs.

Don’t assume I don’t know what I’m doing and I won’t assume you’re an elitist that doesn’t know what they’re talking about either, kk?

If you knew then you wouldn’t have said what you said…

It’s not being elitist, it’s called a fact, you don’t see me calling you names.

Knote.2904:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Knote.2904:

No, you obviously don’t know how to play your thief then.

It’s by far the easiest and most forgiving class to level (next to necro). I can literally take on 20 mobs.

Don’t assume I don’t know what I’m doing and I won’t assume you’re an elitist that doesn’t know what they’re talking about either, kk?

If you knew then you wouldn’t have said what you said…

It’s not being elitist, it’s called a fact, you don’t see me calling you names.

You insulted his skill level by saying “You don’t know how to play your thief then”, which isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion of yours, just saying.

I think what concept has been trying to say is that there’s no direct counters to stealth, up until rangers get the “Sic Em” skill. As in, you push a button, suddenly stealth is gone.
I’d like to make a suggestion for something that allows me to strip the passive effects of a warrior’s signet, or to shatter multiple mesmer clones or destroy minions at the push of a button (which, funny enough, were actual skills in the original game, except you just took control of them, or blew up one depending on which skill you used).
Or, to take another queue from the original game, have a way to where I can disrupt a target’s stance as the original game also had.

The boon/strip boon metagame is getting rather old.

raahk.2786:

Knote.2904:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Knote.2904:

No, you obviously don’t know how to play your thief then.

It’s by far the easiest and most forgiving class to level (next to necro). I can literally take on 20 mobs.

Don’t assume I don’t know what I’m doing and I won’t assume you’re an elitist that doesn’t know what they’re talking about either, kk?

If you knew then you wouldn’t have said what you said…

It’s not being elitist, it’s called a fact, you don’t see me calling you names.

You insulted his skill level by saying “You don’t know how to play your thief then”, which isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion of yours, just saying.

I think what concept has been trying to say is that there’s no direct counters to stealth, up until rangers get the “Sic Em” skill. As in, you push a button, suddenly stealth is gone.
I’d like to make a suggestion for something that allows me to strip the passive effects of a warrior’s signet, or to shatter multiple mesmer clones or destroy minions at the push of a button (which, funny enough, were actual skills in the original game, except you just took control of them, or blew up one depending on which skill you used).
Or, to take another queue from the original game, have a way to where I can disrupt a target’s stance as the original game also had.

The boon/strip boon metagame is getting rather old.

FWIW, after re-reading it, the skill is targeted, it doesn’t de-stealth someone. It just applies to revealed debuff to someone who is currently unstealthed. (which I can live with)

Can we talk about the fact Ranger pets names don’t get saved? Because that really annoys me.

Could you also add a 1/4 second delay to Necromancer Death Shroud (like you’ve done with other skills in the past) to prevent double tapping in laggy (WvW) or intense situations? This would prevent Death Shroud from being wasted because the button was hit twice. Thanks.

liefbread.9513:

It took some thinking, but I think I have something relevant for you Conncept, it may not be what you’re looking for… but the average stealth is 3-4s, assuming you backstab you have 4 seconds of revealed, assuming you chain another cloak and dagger you get revealed before you disappear again (its like, a second, but you are visible). If you use heartseeker through gunpowder… well there’s a blind circle on the ground, if you’re in a shadow refuge…. well a lot of attacks sweep through a shadow refuge.

I don’t know if you consider that “reasonable” but it seems reasonable to me.

Regardless, for some reason I’m coming to like you… you make me think.

I’m glad you are taking the time to research but that really isn’t what I mean when I’m talking about counters. Those are great for high level players, who, if I may be frank, I am not the least bit concerned with. The average player is not going learn those tricks, nor should they have to. They play a few hours a week to relax and enjoy, and wouldn’t notice those things at the end of the day when they play even if they had the time to. And they should not be pushed out of PvP because of real life limitations, as happened far too often in GW1.

The casual player needs concepts which apply across a broad base of abilities in a logical manner.

That player is evading, hold back on your burst. That player has a lot of pets, AoE them. Getting kited, use a gap closer. That’s a high armor opponent, use conditions. Player closing in? Use an escape. That player is low on health, heal him. Team needs extra damage, lay down your boon fields. Player using his ult, use one in kind. And then there is dodge and interrupts, a readily available offensive and defensive response to everything.

All of these are basic effects found somewhere on most any combination of abilities, and they apply in a logical manner as a response to some group of abilities or other. That is counterplay, a lot of people don’t realize this game is actually really really well designed in that aspect. They just need to get certain things evened out between the classes and this game will be a thing of beauty.

But stealth is one of a few hiccups within that design system, those things with which you can respond to it are too few and vary too much between stealth’s varying methods of application. And this change they are about to make, really isn’t going to help. All it is going to do is make players decide while building, rather than playing, whether stealth irks them enough to slot a stealth breaker. There are already abilities in the game which have the problem they are about to recreate with stealth, boons and conditions. You either have slotted boon stripping or you have not, you either have condition removal or you don’t. There is no real play between opponents with boons and conditions, and they are about to make stealth the same way.

raahk.2786:

You insulted his skill level by saying “You don’t know how to play your thief then”, which isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion of yours, just saying.

Her. But thank you.

raahk.2786:

I think what concept has been trying to say is that there’s no direct counters to stealth, up until rangers get the “Sic Em” skill. As in, you push a button, suddenly stealth is gone.
I’d like to make a suggestion for something that allows me to strip the passive effects of a warrior’s signet, or to shatter multiple mesmer clones or destroy minions at the push of a button (which, funny enough, were actual skills in the original game, except you just took control of them, or blew up one depending on which skill you used).
Or, to take another queue from the original game, have a way to where I can disrupt a target’s stance as the original game also had.

The boon/strip boon metagame is getting rather old.

Correct. There aren’t any direct counters, hard counters, to stealth. But I still wouldn’t compare it to the class-specific mechanics. Your suggestions would be akin to us invalidating steal, not blocking stealth by applying revealed.

A more apt comparison might be … hmm … disabling traps?

Sundancer.1762:

Can we talk about the fact Ranger pets names don’t get saved? Because that really annoys me.

I think it does for alla us rangers that name all their pets.

Conncept.7638:

liefbread.9513:

It took some thinking, but I think I have something relevant for you Conncept, it may not be what you’re looking for… but the average stealth is 3-4s, assuming you backstab you have 4 seconds of revealed, assuming you chain another cloak and dagger you get revealed before you disappear again (its like, a second, but you are visible). If you use heartseeker through gunpowder… well there’s a blind circle on the ground, if you’re in a shadow refuge…. well a lot of attacks sweep through a shadow refuge.

I don’t know if you consider that “reasonable” but it seems reasonable to me.

Regardless, for some reason I’m coming to like you… you make me think.

I’m glad you are taking the time to research the game but that really isn’t what I mean. Those things are great for high level players, who, if I may be frank, I do not care about. The average player is not going learn those things, nor should they have to. They play a few hours a week to relax and enjoy, and wouldn’t notice those things at the end of the day when they play even if they had the time to. And they should not be pushed out of PvP because of real life limitations, as happened far too often in GW1.

The casual player needs concepts which apply across a broad base of abilities in a logical manner.

That player is evading, hold back on your burst. That player has a lot of pets, AoE them. Getting kited, use a gap closer. That’s a high armor opponent, use conditions. Player closing in? Use an escape. That player is low on health, heal him. Team needs extra damage, lay down your boon fields. Player using his ult, use one in kind. And then there is dodge and interrupts, a readily available offensive and defensive response to everything.

All of these are basic effects found somewhere on most any combination of abilities, and they apply in a logical manner as a response to some group of abilities or other. That is counterplay, a lot of people don’t realize this game is actually really really well designed in that aspect. They just need to get certain things evened out between the classes and this game will be a thing of beauty.

But stealth is one of a few hiccups within that design system, those things with which you can respond to it are too few and vary too much between stealth’s varying methods of application. And this change they are about to make, really isn’t going to help. All it is going to do is make players decide while building, rather than playing, whether stealth irks them enough to slot a stealth breaker. There are already abilities in the game which have the problem they are about to recreate with stealth, boons and conditions. You either have slotted boon stripping or you have not, you either have condition removal or you don’t. There is no real play between opponents with boons and conditions, and they are about to make stealth the same way.

This is really well though out and I agree with it in many ways, I do agree that stealth needs to be reworked, but I don’t know if removing it entirely is the right decision. I’m trying to think why it “worked” in WoW but doesn’t in GW2, but WoW even had perma-stealth (for multiple classes)… I’m rusty on my mechanics play though.

Thief

Feline Grace ought to be 50% end regen just like the Ranger’s. That will make S/D more bearable without having to nerf the actual skill, as it isn’t the root problem. Pistol 2 could do poison, so that the P/D kit would have enough condis to put pressure on while bringing better utilities.

Warrior

Healing Signet ought to have a base heal of 300 / second instead of whatever it is right now. Its too strong atm.

Please revert Berserker stance to 6s base that is such a strong skill to have vs. more than just Condi Necro.

Ranger

I don’t really care if that stealth reveal is put in that doesn’t really matter since most good rangers actually want to take utis that help win fights, not play peek a boo with thiefs. Maul = hell yeah I want to see more Rangers with guts instead of the passive BS

Ele

Conjures getting buffed is good, that is an entire subset of utilities that were previously useless and could give them an Engi-type feel of risk/reward. If you do that please make them instant cast summon because cast time for a kit is kind of ridiculous.

Necro

Vampire Necro actually sounds pretty kitten, but there is a problem with the Condi Necro that makes them too strong, and that’s how much damage you get from Terror. I think a nerf to that would make them more balanced or moving it to 30 points instead of 20. That way you would have to either give up Dhuumfire or Master of Terror instead of getting both and that crazy damage.

Mesmer

Those changes look fine. They’re actually in a great place.

Guardian

I really hope that Purging Flames isn’t AoE Zerker stance. That would be such a stupid idea.

Conncept.7638:

Maugetarr.6823:

Use a long channel skill, knock them out of smoke fields, immobilize/stun/fear or use the myriad of control skill in this game that will force a thief to use a cooldown. Another tactic I have used on thieves with my warrior is intentionally eating a backstab which did a grand total of 3.5k damage to me (from behind) to which I responded with a pin-down, combustive shot, arcing arrow, to which he went down before I had a chance to land my shield bash and eviscerate. I would like to note that even though I used aoe skills I was not guessing where the thief was, I baited him out, controlled him, and countered him.

Targeted channel skills are available almost… nowhere, and only work through one completion of the channel. That extra second is real helpful to scepter Eles and GS mesmers.

Immobilize does not cause interrupt and therefore does not stop stealth, and it’s duration on most abilities is also laughable. Additionally, I’ve never seen a stealth build without shadow’s embrace, look it up, it’s important.

The other effects you have listed are interrupts and control effects. All abilities can be interrupted, and everything else in the game has counters in addition to the constant danger of interrupts, as you recall I stated ‘which do not apply to all abilities in kind’.

Nice try.

And finally, you are built specifically to counter a thief’s backstab, well sort of, I can already see how to get out of that. Regardless, how is that any different than putting in direct applications of reveal for people to build with? Do you not find that the least bit hypocritical?

There are in fact a number of skills that last over a second in terms of channel time that still hit even if the thief at the end of the channel regardless if the thief stealths during the channel. Even short channel abilities (.5-.75) seconds still hit the thief if the button was pressed before the thief stealthed but before the skill technically started to channel if the press was close enough. Also, pets/minions/clones do not drop aggro once the thief, so all that occurs is a 3(4) second delay on something like izerker sweeping through you. Yes, I was built tough to spearhead and break small groups, but it wasn’t specifically designed to counter the thief. I don’t consider it hypocritical because what I’m saying is that there are already tactical ways to counter stealth in both build and gameplay. Introducing a skill that will stop the thief from stealthing with the press of a button may make it easier for the average player take the thief down once every 40 or so seconds, but at the same time those who will use it will never learn how to fight a thief if they forgot to equip the skill. It may be a blessing in disguise though as the argument that there is “no counter” can no longer be made.

Additionally, there was a reason I used pin-down +combustive shot. Had the thief not been revealed (which he was making shadows embrace moot) he would have had 2 cover conditions, so the initial condi cure only had a 1/3 chance to remove the immobilize, and if it happened to remove burning, that would have been reapplied by the field, if not the second tick of shadows embrace would have only had a 50/50 chance of removing the immob.

As an afterthought, it may just be that they are considering implementing a hard counter to stealth while simultaneously reducing the effectiveness of LS against boon bunkers by 50% that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I’d just like to see pistols reworked to not be a pseudo condition weapon.

Maybe I’m alone on that one.

also quarterstaves, I really want to play an acrobatics melee thief with blocks, knockdowns, etc…

liefbread.9513:

I’d just like to see pistols reworked to not be a condition weapon.

Maybe I’m alone on that one.

As long as they get a remake to be more useful, yes. I use the things and love them aesthetically, despite their … shortcomings. I do have to say I’d prefer them as a power weapon as well. It honestly makes more sense for them to be as the shortbow is more of a condition weapon with it’s 2-5.

Maugetarr.6823:

There are in fact a number of skills that last over a second in terms of channel time that still hit even if the thief at the end of the channel regardless if the thief stealths during the channel. Even short channel abilities (.5-.75) seconds still hit the thief if the button was pressed before the thief stealthed but before the skill technically started to channel if the press was close enough. Also, pets/minions/clones do not drop aggro once the thief, so all that occurs is a 3(4) second delay on something like izerker sweeping through you.

There are only ten targeted channeling skills period, out of hundreds of skills. Two are 1-1.5 second channels, two are 2-2.5 seconds, four are 3.5 second, and two are 4-5 second channels. In order for this trick to work, you are going to have to waste some of the time on any of those before they are stealthed. Lets be liberal and say you actually manage to only waste a half second, you average a whopping two and a half seconds of reveal between them. That is going to help nothing but the burstiest of burst builds.

Maugetarr.6823:

Yes, I was built tough to spearhead and break small groups, but it wasn’t specifically designed to counter the thief. I don’t consider it hypocritical because what I’m saying is that there are already tactical ways to counter stealth in both build and gameplay. Introducing a skill that will stop the thief from stealthing with the press of a button may make it easier for the average player take the thief down once every 40 or so seconds, but at the same time those who will use it will never learn how to fight a thief if they forgot to equip the skill. It may be a blessing in disguise though as the argument that there is “no counter” can no longer be made.

I actually do not think this new revealed mechanic is a good idea, somewhat for the reasons you stated, but at the same time not.

Stealth, as a mechanic, has no counter to it. There are counters to abilities which apply stealth, but they vary between all the varying stealth abilities. This new method is just going to be a matter of build preference rather than play. And is basically harkening back to a system of ability versus ability rather than mechanic versus mechanic or effect for effect, if continued we’ll degenerate back to GW1’s crack-build PvP in no time. There need to be clear and logical mechanics with broad and meaningful application in order to create a play to counterplay environment. If GW1 did anything for the game world, it proved that a massive tit-for-tat system does not, and will not, ever work.

Please make condition builds viable in pve areas. It’s so hard to get loot/event reward because of 25 stack condition limit. If there’s already 25 stacks of bleed on a mob, there’s nothing you can do to this mob. This makes you useless in pve. This is also why necros aren’t so preferred in dungeons etc. Please fix condition stack problem in pve. Thanks for your great work.

PLEASE fix ranger traits
all i want so i can play this game are ranger traits that dont feel so bad compared to other traits

for example, every single other class gets an additional bonus to their signet cooldown reduction skills

all we get is cooldown reduction

please make ranger traits a bit better (combine some if you must)

rshadowkirby.3548:

PLEASE fix ranger traits
all i want so i can play this game are ranger traits that dont feel so bad compared to other traits

for example, every single other class gets an additional bonus to their signet cooldown reduction skills

all we get is cooldown reduction

please make ranger traits a bit better (combine some if you must)

Isn’t there a ranger signet cooldown reduction in the first traitline?… 20% or something?

trait IV?