Guild Wars 2

Millionaires.4201:

I’m not sure how that’s Pay2Win, it’s just convenient. People really need to touch up on what Pay2Win means, you can buy gold in this game with gems, is that Pay2Win? No.

Go play Planetside2. You can buy the best gun at level 1 and you will one shot everything; that’s Pay2Win.

By your definition Planetside is also not pay to win either because you can earn certs to buy guns.

Most people are not saying this is pay to win, they are saying it is the beginning of pay to win.

There is only one answer: NO.

Oh my gosh..just oh my gosh. This poll is stupid because everyone can see how you are voting.

The cool kids on the forum say they don’t like the pick. The forum goers who want to appear cool agree with the cool kids so they can share in coolness….the cool kids friends agree with the cool kids opinion because well, they are friends.

Some other forum goers agree they dislike the pick because that is how the majority seems to run, and if the majority agrees then by jingo the pick is no good.

Mob mentality.

Also, what if a group of..“Ebil Marketeers” were looking into the far future with plans of capturing the sprocket market when the Trading Post supply of sprockets dry up and the new players don’t have sprocket mining in their home instances.

These new players will be forced to the Trading Post where the Ebil Marketeers will profit, profit, profit!!!!!! Heck no, they don’t want Joe on the street to be able to mine sprockets as that will cut into their sprocket profit. These players are using mob mentality to protect their future markets.

I am a proud owner of this sprocket generating pick. I love the colors.

I have a set of each of the previous mining sets spread out on all my alts, and I don’t feel cheated at all. I bought them so I don’t have to carry a metric ton of gathering tools with me. I even bought extra so a few of my alts who are in a cave mining steel don’t have to leave to buy new picks as often.

Hmm…After reading this thread, I would encourage you all to buy this pick and flood the market with sprockets to enrage those who are dreaming of becoming sprocket trillionaires

Lisa.

Julischka Bean.7491:

Oh my gosh..just oh my gosh.
This poll is stupid because everyone can see how you are voting.

huh?

I don’t write to the forums a lot and don’t know how to edit. I wanted to clarify that the picks on my alts mining steel in a cave means they don’t have to return to the bank as often.

Lisa-needs to learn how to use forum tools.

Julischka Bean.7491:

Oh my gosh..just oh my gosh. This poll is stupid because everyone can see how you are voting.

The poll is anonymous, your argument is invalid.

Julischka Bean.7491:

Oh my gosh..just oh my gosh. This poll is stupid because everyone can see how you are voting.

The cool kids on the forum say they don’t like the pick. The forum goers who want to appear cool agree with the cool kids so they can share in coolness….the cool kids friends agree with the cool kids opinion because well, they are friends.

Some other forum goers agree they dislike the pick because that is how the majority seems to run, and if the majority agrees then by jingo the pick is no good.

Mob mentality.

It is not a herd mentality, it is a consensus.

Julischka Bean.7491:

Oh my gosh..just oh my gosh. This poll is stupid because everyone can see how you are voting.

The cool kids on the forum say they don’t like the pick. The forum goers who want to appear cool agree with the cool kids so they can share in coolness….the cool kids friends agree with the cool kids opinion because well, they are friends.

Some other forum goers agree they dislike the pick because that is how the majority seems to run, and if the majority agrees then by jingo the pick is no good.

Mob mentality.

Also, what if a group of..“Ebil Marketeers” were looking into the far future with plans of capturing the sprocket market when the Trading Post supply of sprockets dry up and the new players don’t have sprocket mining in their home instances.

These new players will be forced to the Trading Post where the Ebil Marketeers will profit, profit, profit!!!!!! Heck no, they don’t want Joe on the street to be able to mine sprockets as that will cut into their sprocket profit. These players are using mob mentality to protect their future markets.

I am a proud owner of this sprocket generating pick. I love the colors.

I have a set of each of the previous mining sets spread out on all my alts, and I don’t feel cheated at all. I bought them so I don’t have to carry a metric ton of gathering tools with me. I even bought extra so a few of my alts who are in a cave mining steel don’t have to leave to buy new picks as often.

Hmm…After reading this thread, I would encourage you all to buy this pick and flood the market with sprockets to enrage those who are dreaming of becoming sprocket trillionaires

Lisa.

Good said

I have 5 Molten Alliance picks, 1 Bone Pick, and now also 2 of the new pick and no .. i also don’t feel cheatet

I also have 8 endless axes and 6 sickles, and i will also not feal cheatet if the next of those tools create other crappy items from time to time.

Pay to win means that it’s the only option.

You can buy gems with in game gold spending not a single penny. I buy gems every day. Usually 1-10 gems simply by trading the remaining silver after a days play. If I make 1g and 50s, I buy 50s worth of gems. If there’s a big purchase that I want to make, I just put down the gold that I desire.

It makes the sting of buying the gems less when you already have a couple hundred.

But that’s a gameplay choice that you have to make. You aren’t requires to pay to play. You can instead play to pay.

Its not about feeling cheated. The sprocket are freaking useless and will bring a ridiculously low amount of money to anybody that buy the mining pick. This mining pick in particular won’t change anything at all.

But this is a step (even if really small tiny step) in the dangerous direction. Up until now, the unlimited pick only bring convenience. It don’t really bring saving because you really need to pick the hell out of tyria to get even with the initial cost of the pick, its don’t bring you any advantage over other player except the convenience of having only 1 pick to carry forever.

But this new pick also bring something that nobody else can (in a couple week at least, when the marionette won’t be there to give socket anymore). If you push the concept to the extreme and the mining pick could give you a chance to gain weapon from Halloween 2012. I know its extreme, but the concept is the same. Sprockets and Halloween 2012 Weapons are item that was only available during a specific event and then were only available by buying them on the Trading Post. The difference is that one sell for 30 copper and the other for more that 1000 Gold. So my question is at which price we start to care? If at 30 Copper we can just don’t give a crap we certainly do at 1000 Gold so where is the limit where Anet will be going too far? Personally i don’t know, and there is as much answer to that question as there are players in the game. So why go into that uncomfortable situation at the first place. For me Anet was sure it was a good nice little idea that fit the concept of the current update, but didn’t not thing of the precedent that this create.

Great ideea with the poll! It’s funny that out of all the people that voted so far, 2/3 are for one option, while the other 1/3 is formed from BOTH the other option AND the people who are abstaining.

Your move, ANet.

Like the skin / effects.
Dislike the bonus and I hope it’ll be the first AND last item that works this way.

Bottomline; dislike, won’t buy.

Or perhaps a vast amount of perhaps 1000 people in total making a vote is not statistically significant?

for those counting votes

People who simply dont want to buy the pick/dont like it shouldnt be mixed on the its a terrible idea/p2w votes those would be more on the neutral votes

as its been stated before people are exxagerating no one will use the power/prec/healing gear (maybe guardians?)

it does cost more than the previous gathering gear for its one benefit wich is gaining sprockets wich are near worthless as it stands
and its not like its a 50% chance to get 1 sprocket per ore mined either

heck if gem mining picks should have bonuses proper bonus should be 5-10-20% chance of extra ore anyways lol

Kumu Honua.2751:

Or perhaps a vast amount of perhaps 1000 people in total making a vote is not statistically significant?

There are only 320 votes at the moment. It doesn’t necessarily mean that people didn’t vote more than once either. Considering the number of people in my guild is around this number, I will be surprised if anyone considers this a large enough sampling to extrapolate.

plus this change was a step players asked for people wanted their 800 gem picks to do something better than average pickaxes

same goes for the frigging copper salvage o matic thing make it have at least Fine salvage kit funcionality :L

Well, I seriously doubt whether people who vote here (or even read this topic) form a correct representation of the total player population of GW2 in the first place, so it’s pretty much impossible to perform usable statistics on a poll like this anyway.

U no like? U NO BUY!

Such hard…much decision..wow

Rebound.3409:

U no like? U NO BUY!

Such hard…much decision..wow

That is indeed the best way.
And the way I have chosen.
The main issue is that nothing in-game gives this information, and thus people might end up buying it even without know that they are “accepting” this new added stuff.

Thaddeus.4891:

But this is a step (even if really small tiny step) in the dangerous direction.

The step in that direction was already made when they decided that we could buy Gold for Gems.

And i’m quite shure that ANet has no interest in creating items that give you soooo much more gold that people never again feel like they should change gems for gold.

And that in my opinion makes the whole P2W discussion irrelevant.

Also .. i would gladly buy the same pick without sprockets .. for 800 instead 1000 gems.

Rebound.3409:

U no like? U NO BUY!

Such hard…much decision..wow

Come on lol. That’s all you have? It’s the same thing we hear in Living Story: don’t like it > don’t play it. Thing is, why have it in the first place if 70% of players don’t want it to be there at all and get good content instead. All the time that went to creating this “Pickaxe” would have been better spent making something like a new armour skin or something to do with expansions (new maps/races/classes/skills).

No, I do not like the pick, and this about what I expected the results to be. When 70% of the voters in this poll say it’s a P2W item, it may be time to backtrack. You should be removing the P2W elements in the game, not adding more every update.

Here’s an idea, let’s add armor skins and weapon skins instead of arguably P2W crafting garbage?

I like it because it looks neat and has a nice animation and sound. I could care less about the sprockets.

Rebound.3409:

Long story short..these infinite gathering tools only adress people that are so lazy they can’t even change characters…nothing more…nothing less.

Hey .. i change my character constantly .. thats why 6 are complete equipped with endless gathering tools and 2 other have axe and pick now

But i couldn’t care less about the account-bound thing, since if you want to harvest a lot in short time switching characters makes sense but not porting always first to the next city and change the tools to the next character

Sirendor.1394:

Rebound.3409:

U no like? U NO BUY!

Such hard…much decision..wow

Come on lol. That’s all you have? It’s the same thing we hear in Living Story: don’t like it > don’t play it. Thing is, why have it in the first place if 70% of players don’t want it to be there at all and get good content instead. All the time that went to creating this “Pickaxe” would have been better spent making something like a new armour skin or something to do with expansions (new maps/races/classes/skills).

except in this case the 70% playerbase actually wants the darn thing so yeah

Rezzet.3614:

Sirendor.1394:

Rebound.3409:

U no like? U NO BUY!

Such hard…much decision..wow

Come on lol. That’s all you have? It’s the same thing we hear in Living Story: don’t like it > don’t play it. Thing is, why have it in the first place if 70% of players don’t want it to be there at all and get good content instead. All the time that went to creating this “Pickaxe” would have been better spent making something like a new armour skin or something to do with expansions (new maps/races/classes/skills).

except in this case the 70% playerbase actually wants the darn thing so yeah

Um. 70% of people think it’s a BAD addition, not a good one. /facepalm. Please at least read the poll results or the thread before you just spew random nonsense in the future, it will save us all some time. Thanks!

If you are referring to 70% of the player base wanting Living Story…I just don’t even know what to tell you. Wow.

Aeonblade.8709:

Rezzet.3614:

Sirendor.1394:

Rebound.3409:

U no like? U NO BUY!

Such hard…much decision..wow

Come on lol. That’s all you have? It’s the same thing we hear in Living Story: don’t like it > don’t play it. Thing is, why have it in the first place if 70% of players don’t want it to be there at all and get good content instead. All the time that went to creating this “Pickaxe” would have been better spent making something like a new armour skin or something to do with expansions (new maps/races/classes/skills).

except in this case the 70% playerbase actually wants the darn thing so yeah

Um. 70% of people think it’s a BAD addition, not a good one. /facepalm. Please at least read the poll results or the thread before you just spew random nonsense in the future, it will save us all some time. Thanks!

If you are referring to 70% of the player base wanting Living Story…I just don’t even know what to tell you. Wow.

then Please by all means Show me the log containing all purchases made

as for living story lots of players want living story they just want something better more immersive and fun and not too stressful

some are just lazy and want to do living story spamming #1 and going afk

Anyone who buys a $10+ dollar gathering tool from the cash shop is already making a dubious decision. Draw your own conclusions from that statement.

Are u 100% sure it’s not 71% or 69%? Also this post contains 75% statistics made out of 100% fiction percentages….because numbers never lie and are always 100% accurate in almost all statements made by more then 80% of the community posters.

Tyops.5894:

Anyone who buys a $10+ dollar gathering tool from the cash shop is already making a dubious decision. Draw your own conclusions from that statement.

It’s only $10 if you buy gems with RL dollars. If you buy it with your in game income, it’s enjoyment that you pay for the item.

Dislike. I think it is the top of a slippery slope towards P2W.

Shakkara.2641:

TChalla.7146:

That is by choice. It is not required for you to buy the new one. There are other means of getting the sprockets. The old pick works fine as it was advertised originally.

The previous pick was advertised as “The last pick you’ll ever buy”, so best in slot for all eternity. And it was priced accordingly, as for a full set of them you’d almost pay the price of a full game.

Now there is another pick that is better. Thus my original purchase is wasted and worthless as it is no longer best in slot.

Seriously? That is how you read it? They never said nor indicated nor implied that the molten pick was BiS forever. Since buying a molten pick for every character on my account I have never bought another pick from an in-game vendor, thus exactly as advertised.

I think this has been one of the most enlightening threads I have seen in a long time. The poll is a super small number when compared to the entire player base (300 vs millions). I would think it would still give you a basic idea with how people would feel. Special when the numbers are not even close 34% who don’t care/like it vs the overwhelming 66% who are against it.

Given these numbers where gotten at 1/30/2014 at 1:33pm Eastern time.

I have a tiny problem with the poll. It doesn’t really describe my feelings on this item.
I’m pretty sure that the poll is about the functionality of the pick, but until that’s 100% clear…I can’t vote in it.

With that said, I like the fact that it has it’s own cosmetic. All the infinite items appeal to me that way. I like the infinite convenience of all of these items.

I dislike the additional bonus. I dislike that this is even an issue. I dislike that decisions like this make it out the door from what had to be a few meetings. If flamekissed armor is any indication, you can’t treat your customers like they are stupid. I dislike that this could lead to more items like this one with different bonuses.

So, I will take a position based on my dislikes and not purchase this item because I do not want the bonuses added to these items unless they are on all of such items across the board. Mainly due to fair play.

Sooner or later enough will be enough and you are going to do something you can’t come back from or fix in time if we keep traveling down this road. Starting to become a working theme here. In the past I have chalked up complaints of MMO features to be the vocal minority, but in this game it is becoming common talk walking around my chat window. I feel like I’m constantly being bombarded (in game and not just the forums) with complaints about everything from spvp, WvW, crafting, living story, dungeons, gold making etc etc etc.

A wise man once said to me that you shouldn’t focus on the straw that broke the camels back because there’re a million other straws underneath it. I guess to me, I would stop dropping straws on camels. Side note: straws usually look like straws.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think this has been one of the most enlightening threads I have seen in a long time. The poll is a super small number when compared to the entire player base (300 vs millions). I would think it would still give you a basic idea with how people would feel. Special when the numbers are not even close 34% who don’t care/like it vs the overwhelming 66% who are against it.

Given these numbers where gotten at 1/30/2014 at 1:33pm Eastern time.

Technically it is only going to account for the feelings of:
Forum readers
That read the title of this thread
That clicked on the thread
That read the ops post
That clicked on the link for the poll
That clicked on a box in the poll
That submitted their vote

As you get further along, the numbers usually fall off. There have been over 1600 views of this thread currently and 400 votes. Would you then count those 1200 views as “neutral” since they didn’t care enough to vote? What about all those that read the title and didn’t care enough to be bothered with reading it at all?

Yes, but in regard of itds look, just for Engineers.

And to clarify it, this pick is in absolute no way P2W.
People should get this out of their heads and learn ,what real P2W means …

Real P2W means, that you get fundamental advantages over other players, if you buy somethign from an Ingame Shop. Things, that make your character alot more powerful and in something alot better, than a character, which doesn’t have what you’ve bought in the shop.

The pick doesn’t make your character fundamentally better.. a character with this pick won’t have instantly like 10000 more HP or a character won’t gain with that pick money each time you use it and not just only a few copper, but also a few silver

A pick like this won’t increase your boon durations or condition durations, it will never ever have any impact on anythign in the game, that is combat relevant and thus could be used to win over other players much easier, than normal.

This is is NOT P2W!!

So I cansign only, to what Millionaires said.
people here are like crybabies, not having a slightest clue about what they are talking, they simply cry after something like a lemming, because somebody said something is P2W from that they personally think, that person has more clues than they self, so what they say “must be right”, when it is absolutely not, but that false information spreads out like a plague quickly…

brittitude.1983:

There have been over 1600 views of this thread currently and 400 votes. Would you then count those 1200 views as “neutral” since they didn’t care enough to vote?

Some forums have it so that every time someone clicks on the thread after a new post, it counts as a new viewer. So there may very well have only been 400 people who’ve clicked on it a few times.

I got it purely for cosmetic reasons on my Engi (since he is my main).

Between it, the Consort Harvester, and a Chop-It All, I am a high tech materials gatherer.

(For that same reason I avoided the Jack In The Box harvester like the plague. Hella ugly. My necro likes the Bone Pick and Toxic Axe though.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think this has been one of the most enlightening threads I have seen in a long time. The poll is a super small number when compared to the entire player base (300 vs millions).

It’s also wildly biased in that most (nearly all?) of the votes certainly were cast by people who came to the forums to gripe about the watchwork pick, and who therefore care enough to bother reading this thread and click on the link.

I am neutral on the new pick. I have the old ones (yes plural people, we have both the molten and the bone picks although no one seems to mention the bone), and have no desire to upgrade to the watchwork pick. Sure, it gives sprockets, but so does the node I just added to my home instance for doing the living story stuff.

This tool does not invalidate or ruin the previous tools. They still function. They still do exactly what you bought them to do. This one is an upgrade, nothing more. Not a necessity, but has a nice incentive to do so.

Really people, how many of you own smart phones? Ipods? This is no different. The newer model comes out and has more storage, or a faster processor, or whatever. Not necessarily something you need, as your current phone or ipod does the job adequately for you (obviously, otherwise you’d have replaced it with a different model before now), yet your inclined to purchase the new shiny upgraded model. Not because your model no longer functions, or no longer does the job, but because the new one has incentives. How many people with iphones leapt at the new iPhone 5 for exactly such reasons when it came out? Lots, lemme tell ya.

Just take step back, take a deep breath, and then look at it logically and rationally. This is no different than anything else. Calm down.

I’d love to know where people are buying iPhones with GW2 gold.

Darkobra.6439:

I’d love to know where people are buying iPhones with GW2 gold.

chuckle

Now that would be interesting…..

But still, in all seriousness, it was for comparative purposes only. We find such actions acceptable in other (sometimes more important) aspects of our lives. Sometimes to the extent of being extremely costly and yet, something similar (and relatively minor) occurs in the game and people blow a gasket? Its ludicrous.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Darkobra.6439:

I’d love to know where people are buying iPhones with GW2 gold.

chuckle

Now that would be interesting…..

But still, in all seriousness, it was for comparative purposes only. We find such actions acceptable in other (sometimes more important) aspects of our lives. Sometimes to the extent of being extremely costly and yet, something similar (and relatively minor) occurs in the game and people blow a gasket? Its ludicrous.

When posters throw out real world comparisons, I throw out straw men arguments.

Ascended items can be obtained in game. Down the road Anet makes a set that is gem store only that adds a +33% to precursor drop rate. 6months later, a newer set comes along that adds +33% to precursor drop rate and +33% to salvage ecto.

Doesn’t make your character stronger, just richer in the long run. Who wouldn’t buy those sets. How many who bought the first set would be kittened off? Convenience aside, how many players who crafted to 500 and waited 32days to get a complete set would be kittened that you could buy a functionally equal set stat wise that has overall more appeal because of the bonuses?

I think more are wondering how far Anet will take this with other items and not really upset about the pick and the sprocket drops. That’s my opinion though, I could easily be wrong and in fact I hate saying things like “more(implying groups of people)” or “most people” , or “many think”. I can only really speak for myself.

Shasha.2548:

TChalla.7146:

Shakkara.2641:

They ruined the tools I paid for previously, so I hate the new ones.

Unless they give the old tools a bonus of some kind as well.

They did not ruin the ones you bought. You’re spreading a falsehood with this statement. The functionality of what you bought did not change at all.

I think is like ascended debate. In fact is true, but is false too.
If you buy that cause you want the “better stuff”, then they ruin it.

So that would work with armor too right? Where you spent ages getting a set you like and then they come out with a set that looks cooler to you. That should not be allowed! No more cool looking armor! Just ugly ones!

Personally I think its a fine line Anet are walking. Right now its pretty harmless. Ill it is is a time saver. The sprockets are mostly useless and a player who buys the pick has no real advantage over one who doesn’t, aside from the obvious time saving.

However Anet need to very careful what they do next. Say for instance in the next patch they add gear that you can buy with sprockets that doesn’t have crappy stats? What happens to the price of sprockets then? Who then denifits from that?

Right now it don’t see it as a problem but Anet needs to make sure it stays that way or very quickly the economy becomes broken and we are all paying to win.

Orpheal.8263:

Yes, but in regard of itds look, just for Engineers.

And to clarify it, this pick is in absolute no way P2W.
People should get this out of their heads and learn ,what real P2W means …

Real P2W means, that you get fundamental advantages over other players, if you buy somethign from an Ingame Shop. Things, that make your character alot more powerful and in something alot better, than a character, which doesn’t have what you’ve bought in the shop.

The pick doesn’t make your character fundamentally better.. a character with this pick won’t have instantly like 10000 more HP or a character won’t gain with that pick money each time you use it and not just only a few copper, but also a few silver

A pick like this won’t increase your boon durations or condition durations, it will never ever have any impact on anythign in the game, that is combat relevant and thus could be used to win over other players much easier, than normal.

This is is NOT P2W!!

So I cansign only, to what Millionaires said.
people here are like crybabies, not having a slightest clue about what they are talking, they simply cry after something like a lemming, because somebody said something is P2W from that they personally think, that person has more clues than they self, so what they say “must be right”, when it is absolutely not, but that false information spreads out like a plague quickly…

1) Those getting them from the TP are BUYING THEM.
2) Someone with the pick or a home node are getting them FREE

1 = P2W if player is to lazy or uninterested in doing the pre-requisite.
2 = FREE or still free by playing/completing a pre-requisite.

Darkoray.4570:

Personally I think its a fine line Anet are walking. Right now its pretty harmless. Ill it is is a time saver. The sprockets are mostly useless and a player who buys the pick has no real advantage over one who doesn’t, aside from the obvious time saving.

However Anet need to very careful what they do next. Say for instance in the next patch they add gear that you can buy with sprockets that doesn’t have crappy stats? What happens to the price of sprockets then? Who then denifits from that?

Right now it don’t see it as a problem but Anet needs to make sure it stays that way or very quickly the economy becomes broken and we are all paying to win.

That still does not make it any less pay to win. My bet is there testing the waters to see if they can release other items that will add value and benefit to paying players.

I bet in a few months we see a new salvage kit that has a much higher chance at returning ecto’s or perhaps a new mystic forge item that increases precursor drop rate

Another thing they might start looking at is selling armor on the TP. Why not special with so many people saying the game cant be P2W cause of the Gold to Gem conversion. I bet those same people wouldn’t be thrilled when suddenly you can get a entire set of Ascended armor for 3000 gem’s. This has not happened yet but whats to stop them? Personally I feel they could careless about the community and are just trying to maximize profits at this point.

still no official response about this anyone else feel like they have abandoned the community? The only games I have seen run in the fashion GW2 has been run are free to play Koren MMO’s very sad indeed.

Darkobra.6439:

JCROY.5730:

And you will kick those peoples behinds in any part of the game anyway..hoarding gold by using real money does NOT teach someone to dodge LOL
Or use skills..

Or setting traits

Or select the best armor

Or..etc etc etc

99% of you don’t even do that yourselves. You all run to the forum and say “What’s the best?” You don’t question it. You don’t test it. You just run in and then tell everyone “That is the best because damage.” You don’t know WHY!

So like I said, I would not notice a difference. It does not affect my game.

You did notice I agreed with you, right? :P

Pay2win means u pay actually money.

Gold to gems destorys the Pay2Win motif, because you dont need to pay.

I dont understand why people keep saying its Pay2Win, when u can Grind2Win also.

There is no pay2win….

Shakkara.2641:

They ruined the tools I paid for previously, so I hate the new ones.

So then any time a new model of the car you drive comes out then you clearly must feel it ruins your current car. At least with your backwards logic anyway.

Example: my model year Audi did not have parking assist (back up beeps), literally the next year’s model has that standard. Should I now be able to take my car back to the dealership and demand a refund because now this new model ruined my old one? Big ole NOPE on that one. Car does what I bought it to do. It doesn’t matter if I tell them “well if I had known that the next year’s model would have parking assist I would have just waited to buy that one!! WAAAAAHH”

It’s the same exact situation here.