Guild Wars 2

JVJD.4912:

There is no open world pve dueling in this game and until arenanet implements it there is no such thing. Quit whining over pve dueling alrdy >.>

And those wanting it are trying to argue a case to ANet to add it to the game.

If they can do it it in such a way as to keep griefing and other immature acts down without inconveniencing those who do not abuse the system too much, I’m all for it.

Seera.5916:

JVJD.4912:

There is no open world pve dueling in this game and until arenanet implements it there is no such thing. Quit whining over pve dueling alrdy >.>

And those wanting it are trying to argue a case to ANet to add it to the game.

If they can do it it in such a way as to keep griefing and other immature acts down without inconveniencing those who do not abuse the system too much, I’m all for it.

I think the system in my previous post does what you say, how can one be griefed if the option to ask is not there in the first place?

This is a mmo on the internet, and will always have players that choose to harass others. It happens already and more so in PvE content and chat than any portion of this game.

We have ignore and report feature, put it to use.

Wetpaw.3487:

It has been mentioned a few times,

[snip]

Okay. If you can get enough people to agree with that, then it’s a start. Now, what are the details?

Where does it work, and where does it not work? Main world? Racial Cities? WvWvW? Orr?

Are players immune to outside damage during the duel? NPC damage? Falling damage? Can they hurt NPCs while dueling?

Do you stay where you are and duel, or are you moved to a special area? How about an instance of the area you’re in? Can the people around you still see you? Can they avoid seeing you?

How much of an area do you get to move around in before you’ve “run away” and forfeit the duel? How long will each duel last? Is there a way to quickly end a duel without waiting for the other person to beat you up while you stand there, if you need to exit quickly?

People have mentioned possible tournaments with this, how much will you need put into the system as part of dueling to make that work? Do you want something that shows recent wins/losses? A title or indicator for wining X number of duels in a row? And have it taken away when you lose one?

Does it count as a loss if you go linkdead during a duel? Does it count as a win if the other person does? Is there a cooldown before you can rechallenge someone? Would such a cooldown change depending on if you won or lost?

Do you scale up nearby events if you’re dueling? If you’ve taken part in an event that isn’t complete yet, do you forfeit your event rewards if the event is completed while you’re dueling? Can either of these be used as an exploit, and if so how do you prevent that?

And so on…

Wetpaw.3487:

Seera.5916:

JVJD.4912:

There is no open world pve dueling in this game and until arenanet implements it there is no such thing. Quit whining over pve dueling alrdy >.>

And those wanting it are trying to argue a case to ANet to add it to the game.

If they can do it it in such a way as to keep griefing and other immature acts down without inconveniencing those who do not abuse the system too much, I’m all for it.

I think the system in my previous post does what you say, how can one be griefed if the option to ask is not there in the first place?

This is a mmo on the internet, and will always have players that choose to harass others. It happens already and more so in PvE content and chat than any portion of this game.

We have ignore and report feature, put it to use.

Like I said, keep the griefing and immature behavior down. I know ANet can’t prevent it entirely.

And I have posted in support of the flag idea on multiple occasions already. That solution would work.

Wetpaw.3487:

For those that were not playing at the time it would look like this, but instead of a face possibly a picture of a flag.

There was a face there? Didn’t notice.

Palador.2170:

Wetpaw.3487:

It has been mentioned a few times,

[snip]

Okay. If you can get enough people to agree with that, then it’s a start. Now, what are the details?

Where does it work, and where does it not work? Main world? Racial Cities? WvWvW? Orr?

Anywhere & everywhere except spvp, WvW, dungeons, instances, Major hubs (Vigil Keep), Race Cities

Are players immune to outside damage during the duel? NPC damage? Falling damage? Can they hurt NPCs while dueling?

No immunity from any outside environment or fall damage, if a player chooses to harass said duelers let it be., it happens no biggie. Some Fight clubs will enjoy the thrill of playing on a peak or bridge Deathmatch style so fall damage included.

Do you stay where you are and duel, or are you moved to a special area? How about an instance of the area you’re in? Can the people around you still see you? Can they avoid seeing you?

All to view, no special instance. Don’t want to see? Turn away. The community projects (Fight clubs) would lesson or be non existent if phased or instanced.

How much of an area do you get to move around in before you’ve “run away” and forfeit the duel? How long will each duel last? Is there a way to quickly end a duel without waiting for the other person to beat you up while you stand there, if you need to exit quickly?

Area of duel 800-1000 range, better suited for Anet to figure that out. Yes exiting the duel will give you a few second countdown to forfeiting the duel. Duel would last til one player has one hit point left. Leave the range of the duel to exit duel quickly.

People have mentioned possible tournaments with this, how much will you need put into the system as part of dueling to make that work? Do you want something that shows recent wins/losses? A title or indicator for wining X number of duels in a row? And have it taken away when you lose one?

Let all tourneys and events be created by the dueling community, and achievements or titles could be easily attained by cooperation, so this would be Anet call to implement it.

Does it count as a loss if you go linkdead during a duel? Does it count as a win if the other person does? Is there a cooldown before you can rechallenge someone? Would such a cooldown change depending on if you won or lost?

I would prefer a notification in chat for Winner w/a certain range. No cooldown on duel requests.

Do you scale up nearby events if you’re dueling? If you’ve taken part in an event that isn’t complete yet, do you forfeit your event rewards if the event is completed while you’re dueling? Can either of these be used as an exploit, and if so how do you prevent that?

I hardly think this would matter, dueling clubs will not want to bother fighting below Tequatl’s head or in Maws AoE. To further this thought gatherers, RP’s, travelers, champ farmers have hardly been much of an issue in this area either.

And so on…

That is my thoughts on it

Wetpaw.3487:

That is my thoughts on it

Good!

Now, get a lot of other people to agree on it, iron out any other details you can think of, and then approach ANet with it as a fully fleshed out suggestion.

This shows them that there’s something that a lot of people want, it gives them a clear plan of action if they decide to look into implementing it, and tells them just what you want while saving them the hassle of deciding these things themselves.

The clearer you can be with this, and the more you can take any burden of work at all off of ANet for it, the more likely they are to at least look into it and see what it would take to do it.

I’m still not wild about the idea of dueling in the PvE game. But I’m even less for the idea of it happening in a way that disappoints both sides. If it happens, I’d like at least someone to be happy with it.

Wetpaw.3487:

Seera.5916:

JVJD.4912:

There is no open world pve dueling in this game and until arenanet implements it there is no such thing. Quit whining over pve dueling alrdy >.>

And those wanting it are trying to argue a case to ANet to add it to the game.

If they can do it it in such a way as to keep griefing and other immature acts down without inconveniencing those who do not abuse the system too much, I’m all for it.

I think the system in my previous post does what you say, how can one be griefed if the option to ask is not there in the first place?

This is a mmo on the internet, and will always have players that choose to harass others. It happens already and more so in PvE content and chat than any portion of this game.

We have ignore and report feature, put it to use.

Well everything is subject to change even if they said they may add it i doubt it will come to pass since pve has always been a player helping player environment if your doing dungeons events ,hearts ,world bosses even WvW to some extent probably a reason why it is its own environment. Now if you introduce dueling its no longer player helping player but player killing player which is pvp and belongs in the pvp environment so i doubt they will add it since they are very adamant about this .

I dont mind duelling but ahhh…………

To wrap this all together so far

Dueling Flag

Not my idea but fully support as it will not promote “harassment” or “hinder” the anti dueling PvE community.

NewTrain.7549:
Here, you all want dueling so bad, I’ve got your solution.
Gem Store Item – 800 gems – Dueling Flag: Use issues a challenge to selected other player in possession of a dueling flag. If used on a player without a dueling flag, there is no effect and your dueling flag goes on a 15 sec cooldown. May not be used in instances, sPvP, or WvW.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/6

Similar to finishers I would like to see a variety of this item w/unlimited uses.

I would add unlimited uses of course, and possible like I mentioned above similar to the Representation Buttons of Cutthroat Politics as notification as someone w/said item and open to duels.

For those that were not playing at the time it would look like this (see below pic), but instead of a face possibly a picture of a flag.

Further details

Palador.2170
Okay. If you can get enough people to agree with that, then it’s a start. Now, what are the details?

Where does it work, and where does it not work? Main world? Racial Cities? WvWvW? Orr?

Anywhere & everywhere except spvp, WvW, dungeons, instances, Major hubs (Vigil Keep), Race Cities

Are players immune to outside damage during the duel? NPC damage? Falling damage? Can they hurt NPCs while dueling?

No immunity from any outside environment or fall damage, if a player chooses to harass said duelers let it be., it happens no biggie. Some Fight clubs will enjoy the thrill of playing on a peak or bridge Deathmatch style so fall damage included.

Do you stay where you are and duel, or are you moved to a special area? How about an instance of the area you’re in? Can the people around you still see you? Can they avoid seeing you?

All to view, no special instance. Don’t want to see? Turn away. The community projects (Fight clubs) would lesson or be non existent if phased or instanced.

How much of an area do you get to move around in before you’ve “run away” and forfeit the duel? How long will each duel last? Is there a way to quickly end a duel without waiting for the other person to beat you up while you stand there, if you need to exit quickly?

Area of duel 800-1000 range, better suited for Anet to figure that out. Yes exiting the duel will give you a few second countdown to forfeiting the duel. Duel would last til one player has one hit point left. Leave the range of the duel to exit duel quickly.

People have mentioned possible tournaments with this, how much will you need put into the system as part of dueling to make that work? Do you want something that shows recent wins/losses? A title or indicator for wining X number of duels in a row? And have it taken away when you lose one?

Let all tourneys and events be created by the dueling community, and achievements or titles could be easily attained by cooperation, so this would be Anet call to implement it.

Does it count as a loss if you go linkdead during a duel? Does it count as a win if the other person does? Is there a cooldown before you can rechallenge someone? Would such a cooldown change depending on if you won or lost?

I would prefer a notification in chat for Winner w/a certain range. No cooldown on duel requests.

Do you scale up nearby events if you’re dueling? If you’ve taken part in an event that isn’t complete yet, do you forfeit your event rewards if the event is completed while you’re dueling? Can either of these be used as an exploit, and if so how do you prevent that?

I hardly think this would matter, dueling clubs will not want to bother fighting below Tequatl’s head or in Maws AoE. To further this thought gatherers, RP’s, travelers, champ farmers have hardly been much of an issue in this area either.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/9#post4008320
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/List-Of-Things-We-Want-In-Gemstore/page/19#post4007751

How does the community feel that’s against dueling for this idea? Since this is void of harassment is it better suited for all views?

JVJD.4912:

Wetpaw.3487:

Seera.5916:

JVJD.4912:

There is no open world pve dueling in this game and until arenanet implements it there is no such thing. Quit whining over pve dueling alrdy >.>

And those wanting it are trying to argue a case to ANet to add it to the game.

If they can do it it in such a way as to keep griefing and other immature acts down without inconveniencing those who do not abuse the system too much, I’m all for it.

I think the system in my previous post does what you say, how can one be griefed if the option to ask is not there in the first place?

This is a mmo on the internet, and will always have players that choose to harass others. It happens already and more so in PvE content and chat than any portion of this game.

We have ignore and report feature, put it to use.

Well everything is subject to change even if they said they may add it i doubt it will come to pass since pve has always been a player helping player environment if your doing dungeons events ,hearts ,world bosses even WvW to some extent probably a reason why it is its own environment. Now if you introduce dueling its no longer player helping player but player killing player which is pvp and belongs in the pvp environment so i doubt they will add it since they are very adamant about this .

I dont mind duelling but ahhh…………

I think I have a different perspective on this than you. If I get my butt handed to me by a fellow player in a duel I take it as a learning experience. I know what I need to alter in my build or playstyle when up against said butt kicker profession and trait/weapon setup, and request another duel.

and dueling will not result in a death, duel ends when one player has one hit point left, unless in a consensual death match on a ledge, peak, etc..

Ashen.2907:

NewTrain.7549:

You self-contradict in your first two paragraphs.

My apologies. My post should have said, “I was making no such argument,” rather than, “I am making no such argument,” as I made no such argument in the post where you claimed I did. I did not entertain the notion until after you made the claim.

NewTrain.7549:

On your second point, it is not logical to purchase an MMO because it someday might contain a feature you find important, especially when competing products do contain said feature. If the presence or lack of that feature is not a deciding factor in your purchase, it follows that it’s not that important.

I disagree. If GW2 has 9 out of the ten features that I find important to my enjoyment of an MMO but other games that do include the one missing from GW2 have only 8 of those ten features it is completely logical to choose GW2 over the other options, perhaps with the hop of encouraging the developer to add the tenth.

NewTrain.7549:

You next section is another non-sequitur. Clearly long hairstyles are not that important to you as it failed to make or break your purchase.

I provided an example of how something that is important to me in the game was not sufficient to override other elements, multiple such, without changing the fact that it is important. Keep in mind that there is a rather large difference between your previous assertions of, “not important,” and the current assertions of, “not as important,” or, “not that important.”

NewTrain.7549:

Would you buy a car without brakes? No. Why? Brakes are an important feature. Would you buy a car that in a color you didn’t particularly like? Perhaps, if everything else met your standards. Why? Because color isn’t nearly as important as brakes are.

I am not sure of the applicability of this example. It is illegal (at least in my state) to sell a car without brakes. I am not sure that comparing illegal activity to car color is particularly valid. Still, of course brakes are more important than color, doesn’t mean that color is unimportant. Really the entire discussion is altered by the change from your previous stance of, “not important,” to one of, “not as important as X.” I do not disagree at all that multiple elements, each of importance to the consumer, might even so be of varying degree of importance. Again, for me, choosing to buy a game that has 9/10 of the elements I desire does not mean that the tenth element is not important, merely that no one element overrides all of the others.

NewTrain.7549:

It follows that if a feature is important enough to your enjoyment of a product you will either: A) purchase a product with contains that feature as a basic one or pay an additional fee to add it to an already owned product. This is not opinion, this is fact.

No, it is an opinion. People settle all of the time. They then complain because they are not satisfied with the product. Neither you, nor I, get to decide what another person finds important.

NewTrain.7549:

It’s one of the basic tenants of economics. It’s called demand.

Not really. People demand things that are not important to them all of the time. Demand means that people are willing to buy something, not that they consider it important.

Your entire response is based upon the flawed premise that everything in the world can be divided into two categories; important and not important. Every entity’s importance exists in relation to another entity’s importance. Importance does not exist in a vacuum. Therefore the use of “not as important” or “not that important” is perfectly valid because ALL importance exists in degrees and not absolutes. This simple fact negates your entire argument.

Wetpaw.3487:

I think I have a different perspective on this than you. If I get my butt handed to me by a fellow player in a duel I take it as a learning experience. I know what I need to alter in my build or playstyle when up against said butt kicker profession and trait/weapon setup, and request another duel.

and dueling will not result in a death, duel ends when one player has one hit point left, unless in a consensual death match on a ledge, peak, etc..

Repairs are free, let it go to the death. And have it count towards Daily Player Kills. That way those that prefer dueling over PvP matches can have their activities more easily count towards the Daily. And the opponent can resurrect.

pdavis.8031:

@Sorudo

I did read the whole suggestion. I agree there is no bashing in your suggestion, and is balanced. That’s not the point I was making. Seera understood my point. It was an exaggeration of whats going on in the thread. I think that is where the miscommunication lies.

I also agree that it’s just players bashing and arguing just for the sake of arguing. While I enjoy the DISCUSSION, I am seeing very little of that going on. You suggestion is a good idea of what this thread needs more of. Actual feedback and responses, not just a toxic back and forth.

lol yeah sorry, i was a bit to much in defense mode.

that’s what i love to see, i am not against duels in terms of allowing it in GW2, i am against it being around me.
i play PvE so i don’t have to deal with any PvP whatsoever, one might find it silly that i just don’t want to see it but for me it’s the little things, like 2 players fighting against each other, that kinda ruins the enjoyment of things.
harassments and trolling are the reasons why i rather have them not in PvE, we both know it’s an inevitable fate, keeping both crowds separated is best for all.

THIS THREAD
went fairly well in the beginning. People came with solutions and discussed arguments in a fairly good manner.

Now it has completely derailed. Can’t people stop arguing and instead discuss problems and solutions in a structured manner?

I would like say that it has been interesting to see what people have had to say on this topic. It is unfortunate that people resort so frequently to being nasty to one another on the forums but there were those that were not and actually contributed their ideas, opinions and proposed solutions civilly among their fellow players. I also have to say that I agree with a lot that Scrambles has said on this thread and that I think he made some very good points.

There are features in this game that have been left out for far too long. I understand that this game doesn’t need to be like every other game but dueling isn’t make or break… and the implementing of an auto decline duel option would solve the main complaint to the idea, being harassment.

Also, Phadde, that’s a cool duel or not to duel poll you’ve got there, thanks for linking that:

http://strawpoll.me/1650018/

NewTrain.7549:

Your entire response is based upon the flawed premise that everything in the world can be divided into two categories; important and not important.

No. My argument began in response to your use of, “important” in that way. My position has been one of varying degrees of importance from my first response to your posts in this thread. Had you referred to other’s opinion of dueling as being not as important as other elements I would have never responded to you. Instead you stated that dueling was not important to them at all.

NewTrain.7549:

Therefore the use of “not as important” or “not that important” is perfectly valid

Of course it is. Such was part of my point. I made that point in the post you are responding to here.

NewTrain.7549:

This simple fact negates your entire argument.

How can a fact that I am arguing, which you repeat here, negate itself ?

Ashen.2907:

NewTrain.7549:

Your entire response is based upon the flawed premise that everything in the world can be divided into two categories; important and not important.

No. My argument began in response to your use of, “important” in that way. My position has been one of varying degrees of importance from my first response to your posts in this thread. Had you referred to other’s opinion of dueling as being not as important as other elements I would have never responded to you. Instead you stated that dueling was not important to them at all.

NewTrain.7549:

Therefore the use of “not as important” or “not that important” is perfectly valid

Of course it is. Such was part of my point. I made that point in the post you are responding to here.

NewTrain.7549:

This simple fact negates your entire argument.

How can a fact that I am arguing, which you repeat here, negate itself ?

Perhaps you should re-read what you’ve written. It seems as if you’ve gotten yourself confused. Either that or you’re confused about what my point is.

I’ll reiterate for you. If you purchase a product without a certain feature and then refuse to pay for that feature when it is made available for your product, you have demonstrated said feature is not important to you (and since we’ve fallen into arguing semantics; please remember “important” is not an absolute here, but exists on a scale with “not important” meaning that the relative level of importance on said scale is quite low). This is what the demand in supply and demand is all about. it is a fact of economics. I’m not sure how or why you’re attempting to argue against this.

NewTrain.7549:

Ashen.2907:

NewTrain.7549:

Your entire response is based upon the flawed premise that everything in the world can be divided into two categories; important and not important.

No. My argument began in response to your use of, “important” in that way. My position has been one of varying degrees of importance from my first response to your posts in this thread. Had you referred to other’s opinion of dueling as being not as important as other elements I would have never responded to you. Instead you stated that dueling was not important to them at all.

NewTrain.7549:

Therefore the use of “not as important” or “not that important” is perfectly valid

Of course it is. Such was part of my point. I made that point in the post you are responding to here.

NewTrain.7549:

This simple fact negates your entire argument.

How can a fact that I am arguing, which you repeat here, negate itself ?

Perhaps you should re-read what you’ve written. It seems as if you’ve gotten yourself confused. Either that or you’re confused about what my point is.

I’ll reiterate for you. If you purchase a product without a certain feature and then refuse to pay for that feature when it is made available for your product, you have demonstrated said feature is not important to you (and since we’ve fallen into arguing semantics; please remember “important” is not an absolute here, but exists on a scale with “not important” meaning that the relative level of importance on said scale is quite low). This is what the demand in supply and demand is all about. it is a fact of economics. I’m not sure how or why you’re attempting to argue against this.

So I guess the hordes of people who bought GW2 without an in-game LFG, who posted that such a tool is important and in some posts a necessity for a modern MMO were exaggerating or outright lying. We also have people who bought GW2 despite knowing that the MMO trinity would be absent by design. Yet they still demand its incorporation on a semi-regular schedule. Was trinity unimportant to them? I don’t think so. I think they took a chance that didn’t pay off.

You’re asserting a hypothesis (i.e., There is a definitive and necessary connection between the relative importance a game feature on one hand and purchase on the other hand if the feature is unavailable at purchase, or with making an additional payment if the feature is later made available.). Remember that all it takes is one exception to disprove such a hypothesis.

On my lonesome, I have purchased multiple games that lacked features that were very important to me. GW2 is one of them. It lacks much of what made GW the best game I’ve played. Yet, I bought it because it was the best of a bad lot. Ashen made this point earlier.

I’m also very reluctant to encourage developers to produce inferior products and then require additional payment to add to the product. If a business thinks that they can gouge more money out of me by selling a game piecemeal, they will. This does not mean I don’t consider such features important. That feature might be the most important game feature. Its lack might mean I will no longer play the game. However, it does mean that the importance of said feature is trumped by the importance of a principle to me.

I have difficulty accepting that anyone could predict the relative importance of game features based on individual purchase patterns. If you believe you can, perhaps there is a flaw in your assumptions. Supply and demand, for instance, is an economic model for which what matters is that the consumer has the will and means to buy the item. Economists are concerned with the behavior of purchasers, not the psychology. That’s the province of psychologists and marketers. If you’re really interested in examining how people think, you’d have started with psychology, not economics.

NewTrain.7549:

Perhaps you should re-read what you’ve written. It seems as if you’ve gotten yourself confused. Either that or you’re confused about what my point is.

I’ll reiterate for you. If you purchase a product without a certain feature and then refuse to pay for that feature when it is made available for your product, you have demonstrated said feature is not important to you (and since we’ve fallen into arguing semantics; please remember “important” is not an absolute here, but exists on a scale with “not important” meaning that the relative level of importance on said scale is quite low). This is what the demand in supply and demand is all about. it is a fact of economics. I’m not sure how or why you’re attempting to argue against this.

Just because someone doesn’t want to pay for something doesn’t mean that that something isn’t important to them.

They just don’t view that something to be worth what the person is charging for it.

I play a game known as Sims 3. You can get extra content to go into the game such as hairs. It’s important for me to have a wide variety of good looking hairs. EA didn’t provide enough for me. But conversely, I’m not going to pay some third party site $2 for a single hair. It’s not worth that much to me.

Not to mention importance is a scale. You don’t find something important or not important with no middle ground. There are degrees of importance. Some things are more important than others to a single person. To an extremely poor person who has to scrape by having food to eat is more important than the quality of that food. So they’ll pay for something that tastes absolutely horrible to them rather than risk waiting for something they like.

Also importance isn’t the only factor in how much someone is willing to spend on something. For all you know, Ashen was gifted the game and he doesn’t have the spare money to spend on gems because of real life. Or he, like others, doesn’t believe in spending money on digital add-ons for games. The other things he can spend his money on has input on how much something is worth.

You both just proved my point with your posts, thank you. Perhaps had you read my posts in the appropriate context, you’d see you support my point, not contradict it.

eh, no thread merge yet?

Fantastic…

blakdoxa.7520:

eh, no thread merge yet?

Fantastic…

I can’t wait for the merge so it can die.

NewTrain.7549:

You both just proved my point with your posts, thank you. Perhaps had you read my posts in the appropriate context, you’d see you support my point, not contradict it.

I read it in context. I still say you’re wrong. Something can be important but not worth paying X amount for. And for some people dueling may be important but not worth paying even 1 gem for. There is a point on the scale where something changes from not important to important. And that point doesn’t necessarily cross the threshold of I’ll pay for it.

The willingness to pay for something is not the end all be all of something being important, which you seem to think. At least that’s what I’m getting from you post and obviously someone else is so maybe the problem lies with your word choice. You could be meaning to say what we’re saying, but it’s not coming across that way. That’s all I’m saying here.

NewTrain.7549:

You both just proved my point with your posts, thank you. Perhaps had you read my posts in the appropriate context, you’d see you support my point, not contradict it.

That’s all you’ve got? Sorry, but “You’re supporting my point because I say you are.” is not a very convincing argument.

IndigoSundown.5419:

NewTrain.7549:

You both just proved my point with your posts, thank you. Perhaps had you read my posts in the appropriate context, you’d see you support my point, not contradict it.

That’s all you’ve got? Sorry, but “You’re supporting my point because I say you are.” is not a very convincing argument.

Let’s let look at your “convincing arguments” then, shall we?

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m also very reluctant to encourage developers to produce inferior products…

IndigoSundown.5419:

On my lonesome, I have purchased multiple games that lacked features that were very important to me. GW2 is one of them. Yet, I bought it because it was the best of a bad lot.

Coming from the guy who said these two things in the same post. Sorry if I don’t put much stock in your thinking.

This is currently not a discussion about dueling, but rather an argument between a few people. Come off it, people! =)

At first I opposed duelling because it would diminish the chance to get completely seperate balance for pvp and pve. However, PvP and PvE are pretty much completely merged now. So I see no reason to oppose it further.

Go ahead and add it I say.

I remember this kind of thing in DCUO and people would either harass you for duels or mock you until they found something better to do if you declined. IMHO it only fuels those with an over inflated ego from winning too many duels to become even more self absorbed and kitteny. I would be okay with designated areas where dueling could take place, such as Heart Of The Mists for example. But open world I would be totally against.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I remember this kind of thing in DCUO and people would either harass you for duels or mock you until they found something better to do if you declined. IMHO it only fuels those with an over inflated ego from winning too many duels to become even more self absorbed and kitteny. I would be okay with designated areas where dueling could take place, such as Heart Of The Mists for example. But open world I would be totally against.

If there where large “Dueling areas” where you had no need to walk to if you didn’t intend to participate in dueling in some form, would it still be a problem?

I.e. there could be one in HotM, one below the cliff where the FotM portal is, one in the bottom floor of the Grove, one in some random, almost deserted district in Divinity’s Reach, one to the south in the Black Citadel, and so on.

Is that a good solution? =)
It doesn’t “only fuel” vile people, it brings a ton of fun for a lot of people! I think there would be quite a crowd in that dueling area outside of Vigil Keep.
Ah, it would be so awesome seeing people duel each other, or participate in one yourself instead of slacking around in Vigil Keep whilst waiting for whatever.

Any issue that this doesn’t quite cover?

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I remember this kind of thing in DCUO and people would either harass you for duels or mock you until they found something better to do if you declined. IMHO it only fuels those with an over inflated ego from winning too many duels to become even more self absorbed and kitteny. I would be okay with designated areas where dueling could take place, such as Heart Of The Mists for example. But open world I would be totally against.

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support your argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

It’s wonderful to have the ability to duel people anywhere in the open world, but once the novelty has worn off you will find people who are REALLY interested in dueling (you know, the duel-pro, try-hards you fear so much) will congregate in commonly known “dueling areas” (like outside of SW or Org in WoW). If you are standing near one of those areas, you are much more likely to get duel requested.

But anywhere else in the world, what are the odds someone will actually duel request you? And beyond that, what are the odds that the person that requests the duel will actually go further on the harass you because you declined?

I find it interesting that you mentioned harassment in DCU. When i played the game had an auto-decline feature, and apparently now it has an “opt-in” to duel feature. The potential for harassment will be there for ANYTHING that can be implemented in game, that is a given. So, in order to combat this inevitability, you need to add measures to prevent and retaliate against harassment, which in the context of your harassment situation, you did not take advantage of any of the tools available to you.

Complaining about harassment is the last bastion of anyone without a real argument. If that is the only reason you can come up with to combat the request for duels, then you must have exhausted all other good arguments. You could literally look at any suggestion, or any new potential feature and say “oh no this would lead to abuse!” Well of course, it would.

As long as two players can communicate between each other, there will always be a potential for abuse. There is no room for growth if you get stuck on the constant, inevitable consequence of players being able to interact with each other. If the goal was to eliminate abuse, MMOs or multiplayer games wouldn’t exist. You have to get past that and come up with ideas on how to limit, prevent, and counter abuse.

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

Scrambles.2604:

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support you argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

Talk to some RPers about how the trolls seek them out and harass them while they’re RPing. These people go out of their way to track targets down and mess with them in the hopes of upsetting them enough to make them quit the game.

There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game. It WILL happen, there’s no use pretending it won’t. The question is, will it be rare enough to be tolerable?

Phadde.7362:

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”

There is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.

Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support you argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

Talk to some RPers about how the trolls seek them out and harass them while they’re RPing. These people go out of their way to track targets down and mess with them in the hopes of upsetting them enough to make them quit the game.

There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game. It WILL happen, there’s no use pretending it won’t. The question is, will it be rare enough to be tolerable?

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

“There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game.”

There is no doubt? Really? As in, players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel? This is the kind of fantastic situation manufactering, fearmongering, fox news-esque hyperbole i’ve been talking about.

I can understand what someone is saying when they say they are worried about harassment coming out of open world dueling, but I strongly believe that with a few setting options that issue will cease to be an issue. If the request never appears on your screen because you don’t ever want to duel anyone and you put a check in the auto decline then how do you suffer at all from this feature? If someone bothers you in chat and you block them and now you don’t hear them either, what do you suffer?

There are going to be people who are either annoying by character or go out of their way to annoy you or anyone in general. That, unfortunately, is just how some people are. If you want to avoid people, an MMO isn’t the platform.

I truly believe that this feature would not have the negative impact some of you think it would. Should it be implemented properly as has been outlined in previous posts several times, those that don’t want to deal with it wouldn’t and those that want to be able to have it would.

Scrambles.2604:

Phadde.7362:

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”

The is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.

Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.

A few pages ago, I was really put off by the idea to purchase the ability from the company that I’ve always seen as a default feature in any MMO, but now, it seems like a fairly legit solution actually.

Still think that:

• Well placed and large Dueling areas, or…
• A Opt-in Dueling feature with a tag that’s disabled by default, which isn’t allowed in the more crowded parts of the main cities…
  … is a better idea.

Phadde.7362:

Scrambles.2604:

Phadde.7362:

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”

The is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.

Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.

A few pages ago, I was really put off by the idea to purchase the ability from the company that I’ve always seen as a default feature in any MMO, but now, it seems like a fairly legit solution actually.

Still think that:

• Well placed and large Dueling areas, or…
• A Opt-in Dueling feature with a tag that’s disabled by default, which isn’t allowed in the more crowded parts of the main cities…
  … is a better idea.

Yeah, i’m not a big fan of putting everything behind a pay-wall. Which is why i would just spend gold on it, haha.

But putting it in the Gem store would validate the time/effort/resources expended to create the feature. Not to mention the added effort to support extra caveats that would need to be added to appease those who think clicking “decline” isn’t enough.

Putting it in the Gem store is restrictive, but making open world duels only available in certain in-game areas is even more restrictive, and pretty much defeats the purpose of “open world” dueling.

The optimal solution would be to not put it in the Gem store. But adding it a legitimate, and not easily circumvented barrier of entry would drastically reduce the potential of harassment against people that have no interest in dueling.

Scrambles.2604:

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support you argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

Talk to some RPers about how the trolls seek them out and harass them while they’re RPing. These people go out of their way to track targets down and mess with them in the hopes of upsetting them enough to make them quit the game.

There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game. It WILL happen, there’s no use pretending it won’t. The question is, will it be rare enough to be tolerable?

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

“There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game.”

There is no doubt? Really? As in, players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel? This is the kind of fantastic situation manufactering, fearmongering, fox news-esque hyperbole i’ve been talking about.

I’m sorry, I can’t seem to find where I said “players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel”. I can find where I said that some of the current griefers will change targets, griefers even you admit to the existance of, but I can’t find where I said what you claim I said.

So, Bill O’Reilly, would you do me the favor of quoting and highlighting where I said those words? And if you can’t, please do us all the favor of deleting that and any other such misleading posts you’ve made in this thread.

Thank you.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support you argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

Talk to some RPers about how the trolls seek them out and harass them while they’re RPing. These people go out of their way to track targets down and mess with them in the hopes of upsetting them enough to make them quit the game.

There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game. It WILL happen, there’s no use pretending it won’t. The question is, will it be rare enough to be tolerable?

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

“There is no doubt that some of them will consider the non-duelers to be their new target group if dueling is put into the game.”

There is no doubt? Really? As in, players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel? This is the kind of fantastic situation manufactering, fearmongering, fox news-esque hyperbole i’ve been talking about.

I’m sorry, I can’t seem to find where I said “players will live ONLY to seek out people that don’t want to duel, just to harass them because they don’t want to duel”. I can find where I said that some of the current griefers will change targets, griefers even you admit to the existance of, but I can’t find where I said what you claim I said.

So, Bill O’Reilly, would you do me the favor of quoting and highlighting where I said those words? And if you can’t, please do us all the favor of deleting that and any other such misleading posts you’ve made in this thread.

Thank you.

Rpers have been targets of harassment since before MMOs were created. You are implying there are players that will specifically seek out people that don’t want to duel.

I think that is a little ridiculous, that there are bullies out there that are determined to seek out a certain subset of not-easily-identifiable players to harass them. I won’t deny that the potential for this will always exist, but i think you are exaggerating the likelihood of this occurring, as well as the significance of the impact this altercation would produce.

Going back to what Phadde said, I think that dueling should be limited to outside the cities and if it IS in the cities it should be only in a designated spot. I can’t imagine people dueling in the streets of Divinities reach..

However I disagree with it being a purchasable feature. If Anet wants to make money on features I think they should make it accessible to everyone in a basic form and offer the option to pay to expand it. That is if they do that sort of thing at all.

Scrambles.2604:

~

^In addition, with a system using Dueling areas, I can’t imagine anyone bothering to go all the way to vigil keep and attempt to drag someone to a dueling area outside of the city. It’s just extremely far fetched.

Phadde.7362:

If there where large “Dueling areas” where you had no need to walk to if you didn’t intend to participate in dueling in some form, would it still be a problem?

I.e. there could be one in HotM, one below the cliff where the FotM portal is, one in the bottom floor of the Grove, one in some random, almost deserted district in Divinity’s Reach, one to the south in the Black Citadel, and so on….

Scrambles.2604:

I think that is a little ridiculous, that there are bullies out there that are determined to seek out a certain subset of not-easily-identifiable players to harass them. I won’t deny that the potential for this will always exist, but i think you are exaggerating the likelihood of this occurring, as well as the significance of the impact this altercation would produce.

You do realize that to harass RPers, the griefers often have to go well out of their way to find the various RP spots, right? But, let’s look at something you said earlier:

Scrambles.2604:

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

Even you admit it happens throughout the game, so I don’t know why you think dueling would somehow be immune to it.

During the last big thread on this, I started out opposed to the idea but eventually I was convinced it could be okay, if steps were taken to make sure it wasn’t an easy griefing tool. In this thread, I have tried to maintain that stance and work for a good outcome for all. The most opposed to it I’ve been is to say “I’m not wild about the idea”, while trying to get a refined proposal that will make everyone somewhat happy.

If done right, it’s not going to be the end of the world for those that don’t like open world dueling. On the other hand, I don’t want people pretending that it WON’T be used for griefing (just like anything else that can be so used is), and getting us a system that becomes little more than a griefing tool. Nor do I want the devs to spend a bunch of time on a dueling system that will wind up making nobody happy because what they envisioned and what the players wanted were two different things.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

I think that is a little ridiculous, that there are bullies out there that are determined to seek out a certain subset of not-easily-identifiable players to harass them. I won’t deny that the potential for this will always exist, but i think you are exaggerating the likelihood of this occurring, as well as the significance of the impact this altercation would produce.

You do realize that to harass RPers, the griefers often have to go well out of their way to find the various RP spots, right? But, let’s look at something you said earlier:

Scrambles.2604:

I don’t need to talk to RPers, i TOO have been harassed, but in the context of lfg and dungeon running. It happens EVERYWHERE! But I am capable of seeing this inevitability and working to find solution, instead of being stuck as a helpless victim. Also, i’ve been playing multiplayer games long enough that i can tolerate this sort of behavior.

Even you admit it happens throughout the game, so I don’t know why you think dueling would somehow be immune to it.

During the last big thread on this, I started out opposed to the idea but eventually I was convinced it could be okay, if steps were taken to make sure it wasn’t an easy griefing tool. In this thread, I have tried to maintain that stance and work for a good outcome for all. The most opposed to it I’ve been is to say “I’m not wild about the idea”, while trying to get a refined proposal that will make everyone somewhat happy.

If done right, it’s not going to be the end of the world for those that don’t like open world dueling. On the other hand, I don’t want people pretending that it WON’T be used for griefing (just like anything else that can be so used is), and getting us a system that becomes little more than a griefing tool. Nor do I want the devs to spend a bunch of time on a dueling system that will wind up making nobody happy because what they envisioned and what the players wanted were two different things.

I have said over and over again, with or without dueling there will always be potential for harassment as long as two players can interact with each other. There are simple measures that could be taken with the introduction of open world dueling that would maintain the spirit of duels, while alleviating concerns of people who don’t care to duel at all.

It seems we both agree on this, so i’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish.

To answer your initial question, not only do i think instances of “duel harassment” will be rare and the consequences of said harassment will be negligible, i think there are tools currently in place and additional tools that could be added to make this a non-issue.

Scrambles.2604:

It seems we both agree on this, so i’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish.

To answer your initial question, not only do i think instances of “duel harassment” will be rare and the consequences of said harassment will be negligible, i think there are tools currently in place and additional tools that could be added to make this a non-issue.

You were painting the possibility of such harassment as an unrealistic fantasy, invented by the anti-dueling crowd as an excuse to reject the idea of open world duels. That was my main problem.

It’s no more fair to say “it will never happen” than it is to say “it will always happen”. Only by accepting that it will sometimes happen, and putting in reasonable safeguards to limit it, will we decent and fair proposal made to present to the devs and our fellow players.

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

It seems we both agree on this, so i’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish.

To answer your initial question, not only do i think instances of “duel harassment” will be rare and the consequences of said harassment will be negligible, i think there are tools currently in place and additional tools that could be added to make this a non-issue.

You were painting the possibility of such harassment as an unrealistic fantasy, invented by the anti-dueling crowd as an excuse to reject the idea of open world duels. That was my main problem.

It’s no more fair to say “it will never happen” than it is to say “it will always happen”. Only by accepting that it will sometimes happen, and putting in reasonable safeguards to limit it, will we decent and fair proposal made to present to the devs and our fellow players.

I agree with you, Palador. There should be safeguards to limit harassment tied to Dueling. Mostly for the sake of those that don’t really want dueling, but of course an important thing nonetheless.

I’m really excited about dueling, but I’m also certain that there will be a fair bit of harassment if there are no safeguards tied to the system.

At the moment, I think the solution of Dueling Areas is the best. It’s probably one of the best solutions to deal with potential harassers and it brings people together for a particular activity, which I think will be great!

Phadde.7362:

I agree with you, Palador. There should be safeguards to limit harassment tied to Dueling. Mostly for the sake of those that don’t really want dueling, but of course an important thing nonetheless.

Right. And, those safeguards can’t be so limiting that they make the feature too annoying to use, otherwise we’re right back to where we are now with custom arenas used for dueling.

As a side idea: If we did have it only in certain areas within the game, then people would want to travel there, sometimes quickly. Would anyone mind ANet selling something like the unlimited Royal Terrace Pass or Airship Pass that would allow instant travel to the dueling areas? After all, we all know it won’t hurt the feature’s chances of being added if ANet can make an optional convenience item based on it to sell in the gem store.

Phadde.7362:

Palador.2170:

Scrambles.2604:

It seems we both agree on this, so i’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish.

To answer your initial question, not only do i think instances of “duel harassment” will be rare and the consequences of said harassment will be negligible, i think there are tools currently in place and additional tools that could be added to make this a non-issue.

You were painting the possibility of such harassment as an unrealistic fantasy, invented by the anti-dueling crowd as an excuse to reject the idea of open world duels. That was my main problem.

It’s no more fair to say “it will never happen” than it is to say “it will always happen”. Only by accepting that it will sometimes happen, and putting in reasonable safeguards to limit it, will we decent and fair proposal made to present to the devs and our fellow players.

I agree with you, Palador. There should be safeguards to limit harassment tied to Dueling. Mostly for the sake of those that don’t really want dueling, but of course an important thing nonetheless.

I’m really excited about dueling, but I’m also certain that there will be a fair bit of harassment if there are no safeguards tied to the system.

At the moment, I think the solution of Dueling Areas is the best. It’s probably one of the best solutions to deal with potential harassers and it brings people together for a particular activity, which I think will be great!

The thing is unless there are a huge number of dueling arenas you’ll run into the issue of too many duelers and people having to wait their turn.

I prefer the flag system. Where two players can define their duel arena however they like. Want to do it up on a mountain with high risk of falling to your death? Go for it. Want to have an underwater duel? Go for it.

Palador.2170:

Right. And, those safeguards can’t be so limiting that they make the feature too annoying to use, otherwise we’re right back to where we are now with custom arenas used for dueling.

As a side idea: If we did have it only in certain areas within the game, then people would want to travel there, sometimes quickly. Would anyone mind ANet selling something like the unlimited Royal Terrace Pass or Airship Pass that would allow instant travel to the dueling areas? After all, we all know it won’t hurt the feature’s chances of being added if ANet can make an optional convenience item based on it to sell in the gem store.

Hah, a Gemstore item wouldn’t be unlikely =)
I’d personally love to see a Dueling Area outside of Vigil Keep, either slightly to the southwest of the skillpoint below.
Or directly below the cliff where the FotM portal stands.
Or on the northwestern part of the Vigil keep, near the Vigil armor & weapon vendors.

By the way, keep voting on the Dueling poll: http://strawpoll.me/1650018/

=)