Guild Wars 2

Scrambles.2604:

Phadde.7362:

Scrambles.2604:

Phadde.7362:

^If we don’t have Dueling areas (purely in the technical sense) I think there need to be solutions to avoid people from getting harassed (mostly for those that get no joy out of a dueling system).

i think the “opt-in” duel flag (available via Gem store) is the best solution. If someone wants to duel you and you don’t want to, you could always be like “Man, I would love to duel, but i can’t afford the stupid duel flag!”

The is a legitimate reason why you couldn’t duel, beyond not wanting to. I mean, a harasser could still bully you, just like they could now or at any time in the games future, but i think this is the best sort of tool to proactively deal with any instances of harassment that may occur.

Maybe improve the report/block/ignore system to, but that is an issue for a different thread.

A few pages ago, I was really put off by the idea to purchase the ability from the company that I’ve always seen as a default feature in any MMO, but now, it seems like a fairly legit solution actually.

Still think that:

• Well placed and large Dueling areas, or…
• A Opt-in Dueling feature with a tag that’s disabled by default, which isn’t allowed in the more crowded parts of the main cities…
  … is a better idea.

Yeah, i’m not a big fan of putting everything behind a pay-wall. Which is why i would just spend gold on it, haha.

But putting it in the Gem store would validate the time/effort/resources expended to create the feature. Not to mention the added effort to support extra caveats that would need to be added to appease those who think clicking “decline” isn’t enough.

This is why I suggested the idea. It gives those who really want to duel an avenue to do such and allows those who don’t want to duel a legitimate out other than “I just don’t want to.” I see this is a particularly good way to minimize the threat of harassment.

the poll will never win other then “all around the PvE world” because most PvE-ers don’t look at the forums nor do they want to mingle in the discussion at all.

anyway, let’s recap:
-pro-duelers wants this in the PvE world, anti-duelers don’t want anything to do with duels.
-flagging the duelers works but only partly.
-different shards for different sides keeps them separated, giving both sides there way.
-duel challenges can be really annoying when working things out UI related so something need to prevent frustrations like that. (i would say make it a small icon at the side of the screen so when someone challenges you, you don’t have a big fat window in the screen but a small blinking icon)
-pro-duelers don’t always want to duel and harassments are common with this, after 2 declines the challenger can not challenge the player for 15 minutes to prevent abuse.
-any player in the normal PvE shard can not duel at all.
-the flag system works in two ways, 1) it gives the game a sign that you want to be among other duelers, 2) you can set your self as ether an active or non-active dueler so it’s not forced. (some ppl simply want to see duels, they don’t want to fight them)

i hope i didn’t miss something.

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/xp8CYgx

sorudo.9054:

the poll will never win other then “all around the PvE world” because most PvE-ers don’t look at the forums nor do they want to mingle in the discussion at all.

anyway, let’s recap:
-pro-duelers wants this in the PvE world, anti-duelers don’t want anything to do with duels.
-flagging the duelers works but only partly.
-different shards for different sides keeps them separated, giving both sides there way.
-duel challenges can be really annoying when working things out UI related so something need to prevent frustrations like that. (i would say make it a small icon at the side of the screen so when someone challenges you, you don’t have a big fat window in the screen but a small blinking icon)
-pro-duelers don’t always want to duel and harassments are common with this, after 2 declines the challenger can not challenge the player for 15 minutes to prevent abuse.
-any player in the normal PvE shard can not duel at all.
-the flag system works in two ways, 1) it gives the game a sign that you want to be among other duelers, 2) you can set your self as ether an active or non-active dueler so it’s not forced. (some ppl simply want to see duels, they don’t want to fight them)

i hope i didn’t miss something.

A shard/phase system would be unlikely. Either not at all, a feature added for everyone w/an option in options not allowing requests for duels, or the gem store way.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/9

Against my better judgment, I followed this thread through all of the crap slinging that inevitably occurs with any contentious topic.

Being firmly entrenched on the non-duel side, I am nonetheless heartened that some new, constructive voices have emerged on both sides of the issue and have produced some good ideas. A bit of empathy goes a long way. Thanks to you all and I hope that your continued dialogue produces results that both sides can get behind.

Wetpaw.3487:

sorudo.9054:

the poll will never win other then “all around the PvE world” because most PvE-ers don’t look at the forums nor do they want to mingle in the discussion at all.

anyway, let’s recap:
-pro-duelers wants this in the PvE world, anti-duelers don’t want anything to do with duels.
-flagging the duelers works but only partly.
-different shards for different sides keeps them separated, giving both sides there way.
-duel challenges can be really annoying when working things out UI related so something need to prevent frustrations like that. (i would say make it a small icon at the side of the screen so when someone challenges you, you don’t have a big fat window in the screen but a small blinking icon)
-pro-duelers don’t always want to duel and harassments are common with this, after 2 declines the challenger can not challenge the player for 15 minutes to prevent abuse.
-any player in the normal PvE shard can not duel at all.
-the flag system works in two ways, 1) it gives the game a sign that you want to be among other duelers, 2) you can set your self as ether an active or non-active dueler so it’s not forced. (some ppl simply want to see duels, they don’t want to fight them)

i hope i didn’t miss something.

A shard/phase system would be unlikely. Either not at all, a feature added for everyone w/an option in options not allowing requests for duels, or the gem store way.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/9

uhmm, that’s like saying “i am allergic to cats but my wive wanted a cat, so we bought a cat”.
PvE is a place to get away from PvP, not a place to have less PvP.
the shard idea will actually solve about 85% of all the problems duels brings, it would be foolish to not use this.
we already have shard in GW2, take advantage on that option.

sorudo.9054:

Wetpaw.3487:

sorudo.9054:

the poll will never win other then “all around the PvE world” because most PvE-ers don’t look at the forums nor do they want to mingle in the discussion at all.

anyway, let’s recap:
-pro-duelers wants this in the PvE world, anti-duelers don’t want anything to do with duels.
-flagging the duelers works but only partly.
-different shards for different sides keeps them separated, giving both sides there way.
-duel challenges can be really annoying when working things out UI related so something need to prevent frustrations like that. (i would say make it a small icon at the side of the screen so when someone challenges you, you don’t have a big fat window in the screen but a small blinking icon)
-pro-duelers don’t always want to duel and harassments are common with this, after 2 declines the challenger can not challenge the player for 15 minutes to prevent abuse.
-any player in the normal PvE shard can not duel at all.
-the flag system works in two ways, 1) it gives the game a sign that you want to be among other duelers, 2) you can set your self as ether an active or non-active dueler so it’s not forced. (some ppl simply want to see duels, they don’t want to fight them)

i hope i didn’t miss something.

A shard/phase system would be unlikely. Either not at all, a feature added for everyone w/an option in options not allowing requests for duels, or the gem store way.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/9

uhmm, that’s like saying “i am allergic to cats but my wive wanted a cat, so we bought a cat”.
PvE is a place to get away from PvP, not a place to have less PvP.
the shard idea will actually solve about 85% of all the problems duels brings, it would be foolish to not use this.
we already have shard in GW2, take advantage on that option.

The first issue with your “shard” suggestion is that it offers the same level of accessibility that custom sPvP offers. The point of duels is to be able to duel right there, right now, and having to go through a loading screen to duel defeats the purpose.

Also, I think you are overestimating the amount of strictly, PvE only players, as well as being a little over protective of their “strictly PvE” environment. Also, Anet seems to want to promote players dabbling in all areas of the game, rather than stick to one area.

Furthermore, creating a system that segregates different players in the same open world will essentially undo most of the effort and intentions of mega servers.

Not sure why people are overly against this. So long as the game text doesn’t announce duel victories, I could care less.

I was goofing in WoW just this weekend, when I had an overzealous dueler try to rope me in. My response?

I /laugh’d at him. Then I /kiss’d at him~ All while the duel flag was still up, so he couldn’t duel anyone else. And then at some point I just /ignore’d him and went on my merry way.

I’m fine with PvE duels, so long as I have a way to not be pestered by them.

Scrambles.2604:

sorudo.9054:

Wetpaw.3487:

sorudo.9054:

the poll will never win other then “all around the PvE world” because most PvE-ers don’t look at the forums nor do they want to mingle in the discussion at all.

anyway, let’s recap:
-pro-duelers wants this in the PvE world, anti-duelers don’t want anything to do with duels.
-flagging the duelers works but only partly.
-different shards for different sides keeps them separated, giving both sides there way.
-duel challenges can be really annoying when working things out UI related so something need to prevent frustrations like that. (i would say make it a small icon at the side of the screen so when someone challenges you, you don’t have a big fat window in the screen but a small blinking icon)
-pro-duelers don’t always want to duel and harassments are common with this, after 2 declines the challenger can not challenge the player for 15 minutes to prevent abuse.
-any player in the normal PvE shard can not duel at all.
-the flag system works in two ways, 1) it gives the game a sign that you want to be among other duelers, 2) you can set your self as ether an active or non-active dueler so it’s not forced. (some ppl simply want to see duels, they don’t want to fight them)

i hope i didn’t miss something.

A shard/phase system would be unlikely. Either not at all, a feature added for everyone w/an option in options not allowing requests for duels, or the gem store way.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PvE-Dueling/page/9

uhmm, that’s like saying “i am allergic to cats but my wive wanted a cat, so we bought a cat”.
PvE is a place to get away from PvP, not a place to have less PvP.
the shard idea will actually solve about 85% of all the problems duels brings, it would be foolish to not use this.
we already have shard in GW2, take advantage on that option.

The first issue with your “shard” suggestion is that it offers the same level of accessibility that custom sPvP offers. The point of duels is to be able to duel right there, right now, and having to go through a loading screen to duel defeats the purpose.

this is fair and true facepalm moment, i suggest reading the suggestion before making such non-sense remarks.
you don’t have a loading screen because you are already in the shard, if you see a loading screen when you want to duel then you’re in the wrong shard to begin with.

Also, I think you are overestimating the amount of strictly, PvE only players, as well as being a little over protective of their “strictly PvE” environment.

you’re underestimating the size of the PvE-only players and completely misses the point of a PvE environment, i have to be protective so duels don’t ruin the only 1/3 of the game that has no PvP.

Also, Anet seems to want to promote players dabbling in all areas of the game, rather than stick to one area.

oh wow, you’re using something that has nothing to do with this thread, if i like to have noting to do with PvP i should have that choice as i already have right now, add duels and that is ruined.

Furthermore, creating a system that segregates different players in the same open world will essentially undo most of the effort and intentions of mega servers.

sigh, you’re now searching for excuses to get duels in PvE, even if it’s at the cost of the primary players in PvE, the PvE players.
the intention of the mega server is the lower the frustration of separating players on servers, now we can play together without guesting or switching servers, no other reason.
using 2 kinds of shards, a system that the mega server is already using, to separating only the players who choose to duel from the ones who choose to play only PvE and want nothing to do with it is a sound plan.

i know you would love to see both players together but it’s not gonna work like that, no matter how much you want to sugarcoat it, it will only add more problems then it’s worth.

I read your initial suggestion as well as the follow-ups. Forgive me if i don’t fully understand an idea that mostly exists in your head.

Without nitpicking the little points, my overall issue with your suggestion is that it needlessly complicates something that could be easily solved with something like an opt-in system or a “duel flag” that has been suggested here as well as past iterations of these duel threads.

It seems you are on a crusade to save the virgin eyes of strict PvE players, god forbid they see two players fight each other. Again, i think you are overestimating the amount of ONLY PvE players and are still needlessly overprotective of PvE players.

The open world isn’t provided as an escape from PvP and it isn’t even a strictly PvE environment. It is there to do as you leisure. You could simply AFK, play instruments, costume brawl, RP, etc. There is nothing that dictates the only business you have in the open world is targeting monsters and then attacking them. It seems like you are stuck on this idea that Anet has provided players with 3 different games bundled in 1.

Regardless, i expressed my thoughts on your suggestion and was met with the classic Sorudo volatility. I don’t know what i expected, haha. However, it is good to see now that you are slowly making the move to being constructive vs. incoherent rants.

Scrambles.2604:

Without nitpicking the little points, my overall issue with your suggestion is that it needlessly complicates something that could be easily solved with something like an opt-in system or a “duel flag” that has been suggested here as well as past iterations of these duel threads.

no it doesn’t, it only brings the problems allot of ppl are worried about and rightful so

It seems you are on a crusade to save the virgin eyes of strict PvE players, god forbid they see two players fight each other. Again, i think you are overestimating the amount of ONLY PvE players and are still needlessly overprotective of PvE players.

you are needlessly trying to add something in a part of a game that is fine the way it is, duels are a plague in every single game and it will stay that way unless they can’t do harm to the main players in a PvE environment.

The open world isn’t provided as an escape from PvP and it isn’t even a strictly PvE environment. It is there to do as you leisure.

eeeeeeeeeeeeehhheeee, wrong.
it’s a place to get away or stay away from PvP, that’s why it’s called PvE and not PvWhatever.

You could simply AFK, play instruments, costume brawl, RP, etc. There is nothing that dictates the only business you have in the open world is targeting monsters and then attacking them.

that’s something you can do everywhere in the entire game and as you say, you can do it.
also, quite a lame excuse to make a point, you could just as much bring the wardrobe system in it since that’s also something you can do.

It seems like you are stuck on this idea that Anet has provided players with 3 different games bundled in 1.

not stuck, i actually realize it, try it.

Regardless, i expressed my thoughts on your suggestion and was met with the classic Sorudo volatility. I don’t know what i expected, haha. However, it is good to see now that you are slowly making the move to being constructive vs. incoherent rants.

yah, and thanks for not only making a rant in that comment but also ridicule it by saying “a classic sorudo volatility”, i didn’t point out you as a typical duel addict because i know better, shows who is really being proper…..

Scrambles.2604:

Please keep real world politics off of this forum such as references to “fox news-esque hyperbole.” I don’t expect to see them here and I doubt may others do either.

BTW, they tend to divert attention from your main argument and cause at least half your potential audience to dismiss what you are trying to say.

Audrey.7246:

Scrambles.2604:

Please keep real world politics off of this forum such as references to “fox news-esque hyperbole.” I don’t expect to see them here and I doubt may others do either.

BTW, they tend to divert attention from your main argument and cause at least half your potential audience to dismiss what you are trying to say.

It wasn’t a reference to politics but instead to the usage of scare tactics and doom saying. I thought it was kind of funny, but i also realize this discussion is incredibly serious.

I am happy to hear you take more issue with the presentation of my argument rather than the substance.

Scrambles.2604:

I am happy to hear you take more issue with the presentation of my argument rather than the substance.

Here is my reply to the “presentation” of your argument:

(1) You dismiss concerns posted by others about how they have been treated in the past in other games that offer the feature that you want. You call it fear mongering, exaggeration, etc. How do you know? What makes you the arbiter of which past experiences matter?

(2) You want no, or very little restrictions on the feature. GW2 has nearly two years of experience with the lack of this feature in open world PvE. Some players have even stated they chose this game specifically due to the lack of this feature.

(3) You dismiss claims that this feature will cause additional harassment in the game by an equivalency that harassment is already in the game and that there are mechanisms to deal with it already. Others, including myself, have offered various solutions that will limit the potential for harassment. Any that causes even the smallest restriction to your wanted feature you dismiss.

(4) Other players have made you aware that specific PvP areas are available and already set up for what you want. Your major argument here is that the current offerings don’t permit using PvE equipment. Perhaps you should propose that PvE equipment be permitted as another sandbox in these areas instead of bringing it into an area that was not built for it?

tldr: You want unrestricted dueling in PvE and nothing anyone presents opposing it is a valid counterpoint to it in your opinion.

Wetpaw.3487:

The invalid argument comes from players in this community that constantly say NO to content that retains and brings in new players for the benefit of the game as a whole.

Your own arugment is also invalid – what you see as “retains and brings new players for the benefit of the game as a whole”, others see as “Increasing player toxicity, annoying players to the point of quitting, and breaking the spirit of the game, and reducing the appeal of the game.”

the intention of the mega server is the lower the frustration of separating players on servers, now we can play together without guesting or switching servers, no other reason.

And it’s been a terrible screwup at that.

Scrambles.2604:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I remember this kind of thing in DCUO and people would either harass you for duels or mock you until they found something better to do if you declined. IMHO it only fuels those with an over inflated ego from winning too many duels to become even more self absorbed and kitteny. I would be okay with designated areas where dueling could take place, such as Heart Of The Mists for example. But open world I would be totally against.

I find it hard to believe that in GW2, where you are generally one of 20-50 players participating in an open world event, someone is going to single YOU out of everybody and attempt to duel you or harass you. It is possible, in the context of a fantastic story crafted to support your argument on the forums, but in reality it is very unlikely that someone will pick you out, unprovoked, and harass you only because you didn’t want to duel.

It’s wonderful to have the ability to duel people anywhere in the open world, but once the novelty has worn off you will find people who are REALLY interested in dueling (you know, the duel-pro, try-hards you fear so much) will congregate in commonly known “dueling areas” (like outside of SW or Org in WoW). If you are standing near one of those areas, you are much more likely to get duel requested.

But anywhere else in the world, what are the odds someone will actually duel request you? And beyond that, what are the odds that the person that requests the duel will actually go further on the harass you because you declined?

I find it interesting that you mentioned harassment in DCU. When i played the game had an auto-decline feature, and apparently now it has an “opt-in” to duel feature. The potential for harassment will be there for ANYTHING that can be implemented in game, that is a given. So, in order to combat this inevitability, you need to add measures to prevent and retaliate against harassment, which in the context of your harassment situation, you did not take advantage of any of the tools available to you.

Complaining about harassment is the last bastion of anyone without a real argument. If that is the only reason you can come up with to combat the request for duels, then you must have exhausted all other good arguments. You could literally look at any suggestion, or any new potential feature and say “oh no this would lead to abuse!” Well of course, it would.

As long as two players can communicate between each other, there will always be a potential for abuse. There is no room for growth if you get stuck on the constant, inevitable consequence of players being able to interact with each other. If the goal was to eliminate abuse, MMOs or multiplayer games wouldn’t exist. You have to get past that and come up with ideas on how to limit, prevent, and counter abuse.

I’m not concerned about what’s done to me as an individual I’m concerned about the GW2 community. You can say it’s unlikely if you wish but that doesn’t change the fact that someone will have to tolerate this kind of behavior and I don’t think anyone should have to. It’s just a form of superiority and bullying that this game doesn’t need.
If there are designated areas where people can duel that is completely fine. But open world is not. Not everyone wants to participate in duels and the ones that don’t and just so happen to be asked to may be scrutinized for denying a request and harassed because “if you don’t want to play the game go somewhere else.”
So again, I don’t care what happens to me as an individual if this sort of thing were introduced to the game, but there are others I would be concerned for… Some people have soft hearts and despite a few harsh words seeming childish to some, to others it may seriously hurt them.

Audrey.7246:

Scrambles.2604:

I am happy to hear you take more issue with the presentation of my argument rather than the substance.

Here is my reply to the “presentation” of your argument:

(1) You dismiss concerns posted by others about how they have been treated in the past in other games that offer the feature that you want. You call it fear mongering, exaggeration, etc. How do you know? What makes you the arbiter of which past experiences matter?

(2) You want no, or very little restrictions on the feature. GW2 has nearly two years of experience with the lack of this feature in open world PvE. Some players have even stated they chose this game specifically due to the lack of this feature.

(3) You dismiss claims that this feature will cause additional harassment in the game by an equivalency that harassment is already in the game and that there are mechanisms to deal with it already. Others, including myself, have offered various solutions that will limit the potential for harassment. Any that causes even the smallest restriction to your wanted feature you dismiss.

(4) Other players have made you aware that specific PvP areas are available and already set up for what you want. Your major argument here is that the current offerings don’t permit using PvE equipment. Perhaps you should propose that PvE equipment be permitted as another sandbox in these areas instead of bringing it into an area that was not built for it?

tldr: You want unrestricted dueling in PvE and nothing anyone presents opposing it is a valid counterpoint to it in your opinion.

I think it’s more realistic to believe that harassment occurs a small percentage of the time. Others in this thread have tried to paint a picture of harassment being a guaranteed effect, or even the intention of open world dueling.

One person literally said “I don’t want dueling because…[implied harassment happens] …and my name gets slandered in map chat.” I think the likelihood of this happening to any one of us is soooooo low that it shouldn’t even be considered an issue. It may happen in extreme cases, but this is not something 99.9% of players will experience. And EVEN if it does happen. So what? The consequences of your name being slandered in map chat are so minimal that i find this complaint hard to take seriously.

I want easy, accessible, open world duels, anywhere. Based on concerns of this thread, as well as tools that have been implemented in other games (DCUO has the best as far as i’ve seen), i and many others have agreed an “opt-in” dueling option would alleviate many concerns. Concerns i personally find trivial, but concessions i can tolerate because it doesn’t harm the essential spirit of open world duels.

I think it’s weird that people are willing to tolerate current harassment and any harassment that may come with additional features (like wardrobe or LS season 2), but in the context of dueling (cough when it supports their argument), not only is harassment intolerable but EVEN THE SIGHT of duels is something to resist.

Finally, as has been repeated over and over again, custom sPvP is not a great substitute- You have to zone your character to another area, you cannot play on your WvW toon, you have to pay 1600 Gems for your own dueling area, or you are forced to use an open one which is subject to interuptions. Not to mention you are limited to just using sPvP maps, and a custom sPvP match can result in death and respawn time. Ideally, no one would die in a duel (unless you fought on a mountain or something…which would be awesome!_

I hope i addressed all of your concerns.

Sartharina.3542:

Wetpaw.3487:

The invalid argument comes from players in this community that constantly say NO to content that retains and brings in new players for the benefit of the game as a whole.

Your own arugment is also invalid – what you see as “retains and brings new players for the benefit of the game as a whole”, others see as “Increasing player toxicity, annoying players to the point of quitting, and breaking the spirit of the game, and reducing the appeal of the game.”

the intention of the mega server is the lower the frustration of separating players on servers, now we can play together without guesting or switching servers, no other reason.

And it’s been a terrible screwup at that.

Sounds like the Internet may not be the place for you to find entertainment. So you must be completely ok with,

GWEN
FOTM elitism
PvE karma farmers in eotm
Group kick feature
Annoying costume brawls in major hubs
Meta profession PvE dungeon runs
Dungeon Path selling
The great community building we have seen through LS events
Champ trains
PvE players in WvW map completions and achievement hunters

Yes I have seen the “Toxic” nature within this game you speak of, the difference being a matter of opinion that you think some of these features don’t justify the time of day because you don’t want them.

and the mega server was added because this game outside of gem store sales has taken a big hit in the gameplay department due to players leaving and not coming back, servers were ghost towns except the top four or so and it gave a bad impression to the truth. Mega server was a good idea from Anet, and due to their direction the last 19months a much needed one.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’m not concerned about what’s done to me as an individual I’m concerned about the GW2 community. You can say it’s unlikely if you wish but that doesn’t change the fact that someone will have to tolerate this kind of behavior and I don’t think anyone should have to. It’s just a form of superiority and bullying that this game doesn’t need.
If there are designated areas where people can duel that is completely fine. But open world is not. Not everyone wants to participate in duels and the ones that don’t and just so happen to be asked to may be scrutinized for denying a request and harassed because “if you don’t want to play the game go somewhere else.”
So again, I don’t care what happens to me as an individual if this sort of thing were introduced to the game, but there are others I would be concerned for… Some people have soft hearts and despite a few harsh words seeming childish to some, to others it may seriously hurt them.

ah yes…Wont someone think of the children!?

So how exactly does the wardrobe and LS season 2 invite harrassment? And trivializing peoples ability to handle harassment is not ok. People have LITERALLY killed themselves over cyber bullying. For whatever reason they couldn’t handle it. No matter which form it takes, harassment is harassment. There are several reasons I am against PvE open dueling. Harassment being one of those. As much as we all would like to think the the GW community is a place full of wonderful, respectful, and amazing people. It’s not. This thread is an example of that. There is ALWAYS going to be those who grief, troll, and harass others whether in game or on the forums. Whether it’s over PvE dueling, or the pug they were in got wiped in a dungeon because not everyone knew what to do. A system such as PvE dueling would only serve to draw those who take a preverse joy in harassing others. Not that it would be exclusivly those types of people, but having a mechanic for them to operate in would encourage that behavior.

Also duels in PvE would ruin the experience for MANY players. In a world that is designed around community and group dynamics, and the peoples of the world joining forces to combat the Elder Dragons, and the other dangers that plague the world. PvE, as said before, is about working TOGETHER. Having duels, even as a form of entertainment, would not fit into the philosophy of the game world.

pdavis.8031:

So how exactly does the wardrobe and LS season 2 invite harrassment? And trivializing peoples ability to handle harassment is not ok. People have LITERALLY killed themselves over cyber bullying. For whatever reason they couldn’t handle it. No matter which form it takes, harassment is harassment. There are several reasons I am against PvE open dueling. Harassment being one of those. As much as we all would like to think the the GW community is a place full of wonderful, respectful, and amazing people. It’s not. This thread is an example of that. There is ALWAYS going to be those who grief, troll, and harass others whether in game or on the forums. Whether it’s over PvE dueling, or the pug they were in got wiped in a dungeon because not everyone knew what to do. A system such as PvE dueling would only serve to draw those who take a preverse joy in harassing others. Not that it would be exclusivly those types of people, but having a mechanic for them to operate in would encourage that behavior.

Also duels in PvE would ruin the experience for MANY players. In a world that is designed around community and group dynamics, and the peoples of the world joining forces to combat the Elder Dragons, and the other dangers that plague the world. PvE, as said before, is about working TOGETHER. Having duels, even as a form of entertainment, would not fit into the philosophy of the game world.

Suicide as a result of cyber bullying can’t be attributed to cyberbullying alone. Suicide is a very complex issue and to attribute one factor to the cause trivializes it. That being said, you have unreasonable expectations if you go into a multiplayer game or MMO and expect to never face any harassment or griefing.

LS has brought more griefing and harassment than any other part of the game i’ve witnessed. Get a large group of players together (new and experienced) with specific, yet not very well spelled out goals and queue the animosity. Should we advocate against LS2, because harassment is an inevitable consequence of LS? No not at all. Give the players features while incorporating tools to prevent and defend against harassment.

Wardrobe invites harassment because it easily shows the time and effort someone puts into the character, making them subject to ridicule. Again, potential for harassment exists, but in an effort to reduce it, we add features with tools to prevent and defend against harassment.

Otherwise, you and others keep imagining a world where open world duels exists without any current or additional safeguards, which conveniently reinforces your argument.

True, while cyber bullying is not the only factor, it is a catalyst. But that doesn’t make it any less tragic or less of an issue. And as you said, there are other avenues for harassment already in place. So why add one more? One more thats been proven to be a major source of griefing and harassment. A large portion of Anti duelers point out that harassment is their major concern. Even with the safeguards.

As for me, I cannot imagine a GW2 world in which PvE dueling exists. With or without safeguards. I don’t see it fitting into the GW universe.

The same old stuff over and over with almost the same people saying the same thing over an over. Some of us will never agree but is it worth it to say so over and over again? Do you think Anet is really keyed in on this thread to see who get’s the last word? I doubt it. Sometimes it is best to just let go….

Ever the voice of reason JustTrogdor!!

While I agree I felt I needed to add my voice and persepctive, again, to the discussion.

runeblade.7514:

Brother Grimm.5176:

runeblade.7514:

The PvE world is not duel free right now.

There are multiple skillpoints where you duel a npc.

That is just an idiotic statement.

By your logic you ARE dueling every time you fight a human foe, so your problem is solved! Thanks for stopping by!

Dueling requires consent from both sides. The NPC challenges the player and the player click the accept to fight.

A human foe wants to kill you, but you just want to get to a skillpoint. So the human foe kills you. That is not a duel, that is ganking.

That is the difference between my example and your example.

You misunderstood my post (wording issue, my bad). I meant ANY RED FOE in the game is now a “duel”, by that logic. How it’s started is not an issue as the NPCs you are talking about have no other purpose in the game but to fight the player. Your “reason” it is like a duel is a complete illusion (that apparently works on some players).

My point was, fighting a pre-programmed NPC that is DESIGNED to fight players (no matter HOW the combat is initiated) is in NO way close to a player vs player duel (in how it would be initiated or in the skill required to perform the combat). The comparison is again, for lack of a better word, idiotic.

pdavis.8031:

True, while cyber bullying is not the only factor, it is a catalyst. But that doesn’t make it any less tragic or less of an issue. And as you said, there are other avenues for harassment already in place. So why add one more? One more thats been proven to be a major source of griefing and harassment. A large portion of Anti duelers point out that harassment is their major concern. Even with the safeguards.

As for me, I cannot imagine a GW2 world in which PvE dueling exists. With or without safeguards. I don’t see it fitting into the GW universe.

Why add more? I don’t think we should pick and choose what features we have access to based on the worst and smallest percentage of the population. Also, all the evidence that dueling is a “major source of greifing” is anecdotal and comes from the same people that don’t care about or want to see duels.

I think it’s more reasonable to believe that dueling will be no more of a catalyst for harassment than any other features in the game. Just because it gives you the option to solicit another person doesn’t mean it will be frequently abused. Party invites can be abused the same way yet we hear little complaints about party invite spam or harassment.

Just because dueling involves fighting or an element of competitiveness doesn’t automatically make it troll bait. That is a stereotype— just because you enjoy competitive games doesn’t automatically make you a troll or a griefer. Personally, i’ve made more friends in old games via dueling with strangers. I’ve also experienced more harassment in the PvE areas of GW2 than in sPvP or WvW. That doesn’t mean that i automatically assume you are a bully if you are a dungeon runner or strict PvE player.

JustTrogdor.7892:

The same old stuff over and over with almost the same people saying the same thing over an over. Some of us will never agree but is it worth it to say so over and over again? Do you think Anet is really keyed in on this thread to see who get’s the last word? I doubt it. Sometimes it is best to just let go….

haha. The same people arguing the same things, and the same old Trogdor coming into a duel thread to comment on the same people arguing about the same things

Personally, i have felt like i’ve been able to refine my argument after hearing the same tired lines about harassment repeated constantly.

Also this thread has a ton of views, so while it may be the same dozen people debating back and forth i’m willing to bet there are a lot of unique viewers.

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i have felt like i’ve been able to refine my argument after hearing the same tired lines about harassment repeated constantly.

Yeah that is why you got a few day forum vacation LOL.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i have felt like i’ve been able to refine my argument after hearing the same tired lines about harassment repeated constantly.

Yeah that is why you got a few day forum vacation LOL.

hahaha, yeah that wasn’t part of my argument. I felt left out cuz i was the only one that didn’t get a rude pm

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i’ve made more friends in old games via dueling with strangers.

I hadn’t though much about duelling because I mainly play pvp in GW2, but the issue came up for me recently because some friends didn’t want to play GW2 because there was no duelling in it.

I didn’t realize duelling was such a touchy subject here because I have never had an issue with it in other mmos, rather it has been a source of making new friends for me as the quote above.

I actually find it hard to believe that people are so sensitive that they are traumatized by someone asking them to duel.

Dueling is fine; as long as there’s an Auto Decline added at the same time.

Why?

For me it’s an annoyance equal to Gold Seller Spam. If I’m in the middle of something and I suddenly get a pop up asking me to duel – it’s bothersome and annoying… like having to stop what I’m doing and Report Gold Sellers.
Just like we would all love certain websites and gold sellers auto blocked, an automated system to decline duels would need to be in place.

Yasha.5963:

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i’ve made more friends in old games via dueling with strangers.

I hadn’t though much about duelling because I mainly play pvp in GW2, but the issue came up for me recently because some friends didn’t want to play GW2 because there was no duelling in it.

I didn’t realize duelling was such a touchy subject here because I have never had an issue with it in other mmos, rather it has been a source of making new friends for me as the quote above.

I actually find it hard to believe that people are so sensitive that they are traumatized by someone asking them to duel.

i don’t against duel.

But pve dueling will create more problem to GW2.

1. classes are not build and balanced around 1vs1.

2. pve is so called for a reason. to fight dump ai. It will be at disadvantage to use pve build and gear to fight a player designated to duel.

3. trait, level and gear differences. There are players in other games that designated to kill newbies in order to feel good themselves.

fair fight is what i am referring above.

There is a split between pvp and pve for a reason. gear stat and skill wise. if pve dueling happens. It has to automatic switch both player build and gear to pvp build. Otherwise the class balancing ranting will be double or triple as of now.

i guess only a stupid game company will ignore the above and add dueling in pve without a proper solution.

Crossaber.8934:

Yasha.5963:

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i’ve made more friends in old games via dueling with strangers.

I hadn’t though much about duelling because I mainly play pvp in GW2, but the issue came up for me recently because some friends didn’t want to play GW2 because there was no duelling in it.

I didn’t realize duelling was such a touchy subject here because I have never had an issue with it in other mmos, rather it has been a source of making new friends for me as the quote above.

I actually find it hard to believe that people are so sensitive that they are traumatized by someone asking them to duel.

i don’t against duel.

But pve dueling will create more problem to GW2.

1. classes are not build and balanced around 1vs1.

2. pve is so called for a reason. to fight dump ai. It will be at disadvantage to use pve build and gear to fight a player designated to duel.

3. trait, level and gear differences. There are players in other games that designated to kill newbies in order to feel good themselves.

fair fight is what i am referring above.

There is a split between pvp and pve for a reason. gear stat and skill wise. if pve dueling happens. It has to automatic switch both player build and gear to pvp build. Otherwise the class balancing ranting will be double or triple as of now.

i guess only a stupid game company will ignore the above and add dueling in pve without a proper solution.

Dueling has never for me been about a fair fight, its just a fun thing to do with friends while questing or to meet and play with other like minded people.

I am not sure if you are somehow confusing open world pvp with dueling, but it sounds like it from your post. The great thing about GW2 is that we have the option to do “serious” or competitive duels in spvp, but we lack an option to have spontaneous fun duels in pve.

WasAGuest.4973:

Dueling is fine; as long as there’s an Auto Decline added at the same time.

Why?

For me it’s an annoyance equal to Gold Seller Spam. If I’m in the middle of something and I suddenly get a pop up asking me to duel – it’s bothersome and annoying… like having to stop what I’m doing and Report Gold Sellers.
Just like we would all love certain websites and gold sellers auto blocked, an automated system to decline duels would need to be in place.

While I have nothing against such a system, I have never been in an mmo where people spammed duel invites at me to the point that it got annoying…the issue is clearly being overblown.

If you get annoyed by someone in game for any reason you have the tools to deal with them already with the ignore feature.

Yasha.5963:

Crossaber.8934:

Yasha.5963:

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i’ve made more friends in old games via dueling with strangers.

I hadn’t though much about duelling because I mainly play pvp in GW2, but the issue came up for me recently because some friends didn’t want to play GW2 because there was no duelling in it.

I didn’t realize duelling was such a touchy subject here because I have never had an issue with it in other mmos, rather it has been a source of making new friends for me as the quote above.

I actually find it hard to believe that people are so sensitive that they are traumatized by someone asking them to duel.

i don’t against duel.

But pve dueling will create more problem to GW2.

1. classes are not build and balanced around 1vs1.

2. pve is so called for a reason. to fight dump ai. It will be at disadvantage to use pve build and gear to fight a player designated to duel.

3. trait, level and gear differences. There are players in other games that designated to kill newbies in order to feel good themselves.

fair fight is what i am referring above.

There is a split between pvp and pve for a reason. gear stat and skill wise. if pve dueling happens. It has to automatic switch both player build and gear to pvp build. Otherwise the class balancing ranting will be double or triple as of now.

i guess only a stupid game company will ignore the above and add dueling in pve without a proper solution.

Dueling has never for me been about a fair fight, its just a fun thing to do with friends while questing or to meet and play with other like minded people.

I am not sure if you are somehow confusing open world pvp with dueling, but it sounds like it from your post. The great thing about GW2 is that we have the option to do “serious” or competitive duels in spvp, but we lack an option to have spontaneous fun duels in pve.

I guess you forget how serious Anet treat any kind of pvp content in their game.

Otherwise we won’t have a split in skill as pvp version and pve version. Also gear and stat wise we have a split as well.

Fun alone is not convincing enough to carelessly add duel. A wrong step to add duel as a result is more ranting about class unbalance, breaking the friendly coop atmosphere in pve etc. Balancing is the greatest issue in GW2, try to think about it, when pve dueling is included, how many extra pressure on balancing will be adding to the balance team?

All my characters have separate build for pve or pvp. I don’t think it is fun for me to win a duel because i have better gear nor lose a duel for locked in pve build and gear to fight someone better than an AI.

Yasha.5963:

WasAGuest.4973:

Dueling is fine; as long as there’s an Auto Decline added at the same time.

Why?

For me it’s an annoyance equal to Gold Seller Spam. If I’m in the middle of something and I suddenly get a pop up asking me to duel – it’s bothersome and annoying… like having to stop what I’m doing and Report Gold Sellers.
Just like we would all love certain websites and gold sellers auto blocked, an automated system to decline duels would need to be in place.

While I have nothing against such a system, I have never been in an mmo where people spammed duel invites at me to the point that it got annoying…the issue is clearly being overblown.

If you get annoyed by someone in game for any reason you have the tools to deal with them already with the ignore feature.

If you have nothing against an auto-decline, why belittle the concerns of someone who otherwise is not against what you’re asking for?

Strictly from the business point of view ANet must ask themselves one simple question. That being how many PvE only players will quit the game vs how many new players the feature will attract. Seeing as there are not many options for a full featured MMO for those that prefer to not partake in PvP, I could see many that don’t want it leaving if implemented. On the other side of the coin many many MMO’s already have a duel function built in (WoW, Wildstar etc.) so attracting players that already have it elsewhere would be questionable at best.

I’m sure if they were to implement such a feature most that don’t want it open world would be quite happy to see it made into an area of the mists or an arena in a city. So long as they don’t see it interfering with what in essence is designed from the ground up as a cooperative environment. I for one could care less if they add it, if done right.

Technically, you can already duel in PvE. Just drink a tonic or activate your town clothes and away you go in Costume Brawl!

On a more serious note, I don’t mind having dueling in PvE as long as there’s also a way for you to set your PvP flag to off. (And an option to report people who keep harassing you to duel.)

Tommyknocker.6089:

Strictly from the business point of view ANet must ask themselves one simple question. That being how many PvE only players will quit the game vs how many new players the feature will attract.

Keep in mind that new features and/or playable content, generally more things to do in game, are not just about attracting new players but rather providing existing players with more to do to keep them interested in logging in here rather than going elsewhere. The longer people are here the more opportunity they have to spend money.

Dueling is a form of player generated content. Kind of like RPing really. ANet will never be able to produce content as fast as people can consume it so any playable activity that does not require large ongoing development resource investment helps. Providing a better tool to allow players to entertain themselves is generally a good investment.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Strictly from the business point of view ANet must ask themselves one simple question. That being how many PvE only players will quit the game vs how many new players the feature will attract. Seeing as there are not many options for a full featured MMO for those that prefer to not partake in PvP, I could see many that don’t want it leaving if implemented. On the other side of the coin many many MMO’s already have a duel function built in (WoW, Wildstar etc.) so attracting players that already have it elsewhere would be questionable at best.

I’m sure if they were to implement such a feature most that don’t want it open world would be quite happy to see it made into an area of the mists or an arena in a city. So long as they don’t see it interfering with what in essence is designed from the ground up as a cooperative environment. I for one could care less if they add it, if done right.

I disagree completely. That is not the question Anet have to ask themselves. Seriously the amount of hyper-sensitivity to having an optional duel feature implemented is almost mind-boggling. I didn’t realize GW2 attracted every gamer that has a breakdown whenever they get asked to duel, its craziness.

This is how much impact it would have on people still playing- assuming they are not completely emotionally unstable -ZERO.

What if the worst case scenario occurs and someone really does go out of their way to spam duel requests on you in order to “grief” you? Use the ignore feature and/or report them.

This is not such a complex issue that a developer needs to weigh up the pros and cons, balance issues, or add new systems for balance and checks. Its just a fun and completely optional diversion.

Some of the fears expressed are almost laughable- one person for example was scared that players would hack the game and start just killing everyone in pve left right and center.

Anyway, duelling matters little to me except my friends won’t play the game because it doesn’t have duelling. I’ll probably just buy them a copy and them they’ll have to play. Once they see how good it is and get over the learning curve for spvp they are sure to like it.

But for those really scared of a duelling feature – if it is ever implemented don’t go crazy, it will likely not effect you at all, and knowing ANET they will also let you “turn off” requests for duelling because they are just super nice at catering to all our needs like that.

uknortherner.2670:

Scrambles.2604:

the forums are split between those that want duels and those who can’t be bothered to decline a duel request.

Ah, of course. Those of us who don’t want duels are in fact lazy and are not in fact fed up with trolls and petulant 12-year-olds who think that bunny-hopping around, whispering “duel me brah” and “u scared?” every five seconds is a perfectly mature way to conduct themselves.

I believe the mentality of the pro-duel camp on this thread is reason enough for duels to never be implemented in this game.

Why can’t you decline and block?

That works for messaging but not those who will follow you about and interfere with your game play. “But I’m not doing anything wrong, it’s an open world, so it’s just coincidence that I’m killing all those critters you seem to be heading toward first.”

Liberis.9573:

uknortherner.2670:

Scrambles.2604:

the forums are split between those that want duels and those who can’t be bothered to decline a duel request.

Ah, of course. Those of us who don’t want duels are in fact lazy and are not in fact fed up with trolls and petulant 12-year-olds who think that bunny-hopping around, whispering “duel me brah” and “u scared?” every five seconds is a perfectly mature way to conduct themselves.

I believe the mentality of the pro-duel camp on this thread is reason enough for duels to never be implemented in this game.

Why can’t you decline and block?

I would prefer a new option “ignore”. This new option would not only block the user but totally remove him from your client and move you out of your current megaserver instance. You would not be able to get whispers from the user nor would you see him at all (includes bunny hopping). This option would not be perfect as he could still slander your name as a chicken etc., but it might add a modicum of peace to my PvE playtime.

But why even bother with the dev time when adding an arena would be a much better option IMO.

Yasha.5963:

WasAGuest.4973:

Dueling is fine; as long as there’s an Auto Decline added at the same time.

Why?

For me it’s an annoyance equal to Gold Seller Spam. If I’m in the middle of something and I suddenly get a pop up asking me to duel – it’s bothersome and annoying… like having to stop what I’m doing and Report Gold Sellers.
Just like we would all love certain websites and gold sellers auto blocked, an automated system to decline duels would need to be in place.

While I have nothing against such a system, I have never been in an mmo where people spammed duel invites at me to the point that it got annoying…the issue is clearly being overblown.

If you get annoyed by someone in game for any reason you have the tools to deal with them already with the ignore feature.

You haven’t, but I have. many times.

The opposite argument towards clicking a few times to “ignore” or “decline” can be made equally and fairly towards clicking a few times to remove oneself into a PvP area to duel. – Which is why I say such a system needs to be in place at the same time any sort of dueling system goes live.

Remember, just because you personally haven’t been bothered by others doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t; so don’t discredit them so easily and quickly. It does your own arguments discredit as you would likely have more support from those that dislike dueling in the first place (myself for example have no issues with dueling, but without auto decline, I’m strongly against it).

Further, no one is mentioning how Anet profits from such a system. How many Gems will a duel cost? With no Gems attached, such a system will likely never be considered anyway. Perhaps requesting a Gem Shop duel flag so duelers can buy in for their feature and anyone not interested is “Auto Declined”..?
Now Anet gets cash, Duelers get their feature and those not interested are un-effected. —- something to consider.

What is the issue with in-world dueling? If duels are properly implemented, auto-decline and block should take care of any nasty players.

Okay, new question:

Would any of the people wanting to do open world duels be interested in costume brawl “toys” that are made to look like real weapons and have serious looking attacks as a way to duel? Say, “Dueling Pistol”, “Dueling Rapier”, and “Dueling Wand” for the set?

Yes, that means that everyone would have the same skills rather than using class abilities, which I realize misses part of the point. But it also:

• Uses an existing system, minimal work needed to add it to the game.
• Bypasses class balance problems.
• Has a clear path to profit for ANet.
• Makes it entirely about skill, rather than class balance or gear.

Would this be enough to make you happy? And would this be okay with those against in-world duels?

[Edit] And remember, costume brawl no longer requires costumes. You’d still be in your normal armor or outfits for this.

Palador.2170:

Okay, new question:

Would any of the people wanting to do open world duels be interested in costume brawl “toys” that are made to look like real weapons and have serious looking attacks as a way to duel? Say, “Dueling Pistol”, “Dueling Rapier”, and “Dueling Wand” for the set?

Yes, that means that everyone would have the same skills rather than using class abilities, which I realize misses part of the point. But it also:

• Uses an existing system, minimal work needed to add it to the game.
• Bypasses class balance problems.
• Has a clear path to profit for ANet.
• Makes it entirely about skill, rather than class balance or gear.

Would this be enough to make you happy? And would this be okay with those against in-world duels?

And remember, costume brawl no longer requires costumes. You’d still be in your normal armor or outfits for this.

That actually sounds fun, and I don’t even like dueling. =P

Not against dueling overall, as long as there are controls. The opt-in buy flag also sounds like a solid idea, either as a gem store item, or a gold-sink pay cash per use item.

So long as I don’t get system message spam about winners and losers. That gets irritating as kitten in Goldshire and Orgrimmar, and I really don’t need to see it elsewhere.

It would not make me happy. Part of the joy of dueling is using your existing gear/class/skills/etc. For me, the ideal dueling system would allow us to setup custom rulesets: current gear vs normalized stats, level 80 vs current level, bets, etc.

Palador.2170:

Okay, new question:

Would any of the people wanting to do open world duels be interested in costume brawl “toys” that are made to look like real weapons and have serious looking attacks as a way to duel? Say, “Dueling Pistol”, “Dueling Rapier”, and “Dueling Wand” for the set?

Yes, that means that everyone would have the same skills rather than using class abilities, which I realize misses part of the point. But it also:

• Uses an existing system, minimal work needed to add it to the game.
• Bypasses class balance problems.
• Has a clear path to profit for ANet.
• Makes it entirely about skill, rather than class balance or gear.

Would this be enough to make you happy? And would this be okay with those against in-world duels?

[Edit] And remember, costume brawl no longer requires costumes. You’d still be in your normal armor or outfits for this.

The suggestion is definitely appreciated, but not only does this not satisfy what most people expect to get out of “open world duels,” it doesn’t do anything to safeguard those who express concern about duels:

You would still be subject to unwanted solicitation for “costume duels,” you would still be vulnerable to people calling you out for losing a “costume duel” or not wanting to “costume duel” someone. “Costume duels” would still lead to unwanted map chatter and would also be visually distracting to those who don’t want to see “costume duels.”

You shouldn’t be trying to satisfy the open world duel crowd, they’re easy and their demands are pretty straightforward. The tough crowd to please are those who are against the idea open world duels and have no intention of compromising—The “if duels are implemented i’m uninstalling” crowd.

If they don’t put pve dueling in, I think it would be worth while to do simple 1v1 tournaments in the game with rankings and everything.