Guild Wars 2

Mystic.5934:

BTW: an acceptable alternative to a refund would be to add these new picks to the vendor that upgraded the tools from soulbound to account bound. Easy exchange program. So easy, in fact, that I’ll check there when I get home because they might of done that already and just forgot to tell people about it. Seems like an easy solution they might of thought of.

I would support this idea. Seems like a fair solution.

Vena.8436:

Mystic.5934:

Vena.8436:

This pick is 1000 gems and robs me of a portion of my ore for an item that self-deflates in value because of this pick.

this pick does not rob you of anything. if you mine an iron ore with it, you get 3 iron ore and 0.6 sprockets (I assume it’s 20% per chance and not per node?) the sprocket has clearly been identified as in addition to the ore you normally get.

Except you do lose ore because every ore hit also ha(d)s a chance of yielding an additional ore. So you could hit a regular iron ore three times and end up with 5 iron ore. Now, you will hit it thrice and you will ALWAYS get 3 iron ore and 2 sprockets.

For anything short of copper and mithril, each such event loses you 1s+.

Has this actually been confirmed by a dev? If so, then I’ll retract my initial opposition and say that the new pick IS balanced (although the way the pick works should be CLEARLY communicated because I can foresee people buying the pick not understanding how it works.)

If not, and this is just observational anecdotes, then I’ll continue to be sceptical.

i would also like a refund on my MAMP, and after I get the refund I won’t be buying these convenience items anymore since if I wait long enough a better one will come along, power creep already really?… its only been a year

honestly theres really no need to rage over the new pickaxe

it costs 200 more gems
the effect simply replaces whatever extra item you would ve gotten mining normally for a sprocket wich isnt really worth a kitten so far
so yeah it replaces ruby beryl and whatever orbs for a sprocket is it really that good for you guys to rage for that ?

Rezzet.3614:

honestly theres really no need to rage over the new pickaxe

it costs 200 more gems
the effect simply replaces whatever extra item you would ve gotten mining normally for a sprocket wich isnt really worth a kitten so far
so yeah it replaces ruby beryl and whatever orbs for a sprocket is it really that good for you guys to rage for that ?

That is incorrect. It does not replace the gem.
One strike = 1 ore + 1 chance at a gem + 1 chance at a sprocket

However, it actually seems to be that, instead of gaining extra ore in one strike, that extra ore is replaced with the sprocket. It also seems to not allow extra strikes beyond 3. Still no concrete information on this behavior, but gems are definitely not replaced with sprockets. You can get ore, a gem and a sprocket in one strike.

Taken from reddit: http://i.imgur.com/Ec9fh1X.jpg

Apparently the claim that the Watchwork Pick does not return extra ore in one strike is false. We really do need the devs to come out and explain exactly how the Pick works; everything so far is just anecdotal evidence.

This is why I NEVER spend real money in cash shops. If a game doesn’t offer an alternative way of acquiring cash shop items then I stay the hell away from that game.

Shakkara.2641:

Tolmos.8395:

Could someone post the description of the molten pick that stated that it was the best, would always be the best, and no infinite pick would ever come after it that had better features? I can’t find that anywhere. :-\

The massive pricetag of 12 euros implied it. I certainly didn’t expect them to come out with a better tool less than a year later.

You cannot honestly expect players to pay 36 euros per year, or 3 euros per month, for what is basically a subscription fee for the best-in-slot harvesting tools?

You got what you paid for. And it is still working like it’s intended.

Zaxares.5419:

Taken from reddit: http://i.imgur.com/Ec9fh1X.jpg

Apparently the claim that the Watchwork Pick does not return extra ore in one strike is false. We really do need the devs to come out and explain exactly how the Pick works; everything so far is just anecdotal evidence.

That was me posting it, but did you also read what it said below it?

“Thats not the bonus ore. Thats a specific characteristic of Iron (and lower) rich nodes where a normal tick gives two ore in a stack. I am referring to getting two separate ore from a single hit as per regular ore nodes.”

I haven’t gotten an ‘extra’ ore popup yet since using this mining pick. This shows up as 2 seperate ores on the side of the screen.

You never get two separate ores from a single hit though. It is always delivered as a package of “2 iron ore”. Plant node harvesting is the same. Wood is the only exception to this rule, where it will give you 2 × 1 logs on a “critical harvest” rather than 1 × 2 logs.

That said, now I’m not certain if I’ve EVER received “2 iron ore” from a normal node. (From Rich Veins, yes, as you pointed out, Rogue.) I’ve gotten extra strikes from a normal node before, but that’s a function of the WvW bonus, not the pick.

Again, we really do need the devs to come in and tell us how exactly this is supposed to work. :/

Shakkara.2641:

Tolmos.8395:

Could someone post the description of the molten pick that stated that it was the best, would always be the best, and no infinite pick would ever come after it that had better features? I can’t find that anywhere. :-\

The massive pricetag of 12 euros implied it. I certainly didn’t expect them to come out with a better tool less than a year later.

You cannot honestly expect players to pay 36 euros per year, or 3 euros per month, for what is basically a subscription fee for the best-in-slot harvesting tools?

Don’t honestly expect you to pay anything, the item is completely optional. It neither locks or precludes you from accessing any part of the game or progression. Buy or don’t buy, up to you.

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d also be careful next time if you try to do another analogy like the drug cartel one. Fallacies don’t help your argument.

Unfortunately, I had a creeping suspicion that the hyperbolic satire would be ENTIRELY lost on you.

Still, it’s my own fault for not catering to the target audience.

Mystic.5934:

DarcShriek.5829:

You paid 800 gems for it. The new one costs 1000. You’ll get no refund.

I’m only expecting 800 gems back.

Neural.1824:

I’ll wait for the mining pick that gives a 50% chance of Ectoplasm

I’ll wait for the 100% one.

An easy precedent:
when infinite tools were made account-bound, they upgraded old ones for free. People complained that they bought 12 for all their alts and they wouldn’t of if they knew had known they were going to be able to get account-bound instead. I see no difference here.

Wait, what? I have the first set from one of my characters (a character I don’t even have anymore). They make shiny trophies since they are still bound to that character. What is this account bound upgrade you speak of?

Go talk to the Black Lion Weapon specialists in LA. They allow you to change your soulbound tools to account bound versions.

Mind you though, you need to have the pick on you to make the trade, so if you deleted the character they were originally bound to and thus can’t take them out of the bank, I’m not sure this could help you. :/

So what happens if next week they release ascended armor version 2 which has 2 rune slots per piece and costs the same as the ascended now? Would that be fair? How about if they made a new recipe for the grenth and dwayna back items which were infusible but the old ones weren’t? How about a new axe that had a 20% chance to get ecto or a harvesting tool that had a 20% chance to get pristine seeds? See where this is going? You can say what you want but there is no stopping Anet from doing this to any item except maybe legendaries since I think those were actually posted as being BiS. But if not, then they could do this to legendaries as well. How would you feel if all you guys with with 4 or 5 legendaries all of a sudden were sitting on subpar, obsolete weapons?

And I agree, at the end of the day, this whole pick deal makes me leary of buying any kind of equipment other than purely cosmetic items since who knows if the item you purchased a month ago is now obsolete(im looking at you the molten alliance trio of pick/axe/harvesting tool that was offered about a month ago for 2850 gems which now was a worthless purchase for those who bought it)

I still want a refund, for all I know in two months you will release another tool that will give 20% bonus to crystal on top of the sprocket bonus.

Simply put, I feel cheated and I am currently unsure about any future purchases when something better would be along in a month. This fiasco has not exactly built up any consumer trust.

I don’t really have a problem with this item being in the gem store and not available at an “in game” merchant, i can always convert my gold to gems and purchase it that way. What i do find disturbing is the clear vertical progression of this item.
You bought an everlasting pick last week that only mines ore (with a chance for a gem)? It’s outdated now.
On a slightly different note, but still related to this item what i find astounding is that there is no mention of the sprocket bonus at all, anywhere, in the gem store description of this item.

Oh I want a refund too. Is it fair that we get a refund for something we purchased and got our use out of? Probably not. But then again is it fair that Anet knowingly sold us an item they knew was going to be obsolete in a few months? No.

Bottom line is I’m sure most people will be leary about purchasing gem store items now knowing that their item could be obsolete in a couple months.

The only real argument that can be made against these picks (and it’s a very strong case) is the vertical progression one. The gem store has always had items in it which give you an arguably slight in game economic advantage.
The gathering booster and the magic find booster.

I agree the vertical progression on this item is disturbing especially when Scarlet goes away but for me, even bigger is the fact that Anet knowingly sold obsolete items in the gem store. What’s to say they won’t do it again with a new pick in a couple months when this picks sales flatten out. Or maybe they will introduce a new ascended armor with 2 rune slots like the 2 handed legendaries are going to be getting. I mean this whole pick fiasco opens the door to anything.

I really shouldn’t be surprised as this is NcSoft we are talking about and if any of you played other NcSoft games like Lineage 2 or Aion, you know they are purely a cash grab/P2W set up and most of their games crashed and burned except for the fanbois it keeps.

Mystic.5934:

I’m all for removing the bonuses entirely. trouble with removing is: “this pick was advertised to give sprockets, now it doesn’t; refund!” so I don’t see them doing that.
adding bonuses to the other infinite picks is an acceptable alternative, though far from the best idea (removing bonuses).
just ahead of that idea is your idea; with the sockets to add boosts to any tool (when added to temporary tools, you get it back when the tool breaks). It meshes well with all other items.

There are two possible options here
1) when the tool breaks have the sigil drop into your backpack and make the sigils craftable similar to the ascended items and make them account bound.

2) Make them really easy to make and allow them to be sold on the TP and when the item breaks people just go get another one.

This way all tools could have the option to have the same abilities.

Let’s do a little math.

The molten pick costs 800 gems.

The sprocket 1000 gems.

That 200 gem difference you did not pay would have cost around 10g.

In order to make this 10g up, at the current price of sprockets (43c), it would take more than 2300 sprockets. Now, every node has a ~20% chance to provide sprockets.

I am not sure how many sprockets are provided per node, but at 20%, having to mine 2300 sprockets, it will take a while. Combine this with EVERY person trying to break even, the price will drop. This price drop will make breaking even take even MORE time.

So stop complaining about the fact that your old pick is “useless” comparatively. You lost out on nothing and probably saved a good deal of time.

Fixed it for ya

Let’s do a little math.

The molten pick costs 800 gems old version but 1000 normally.

The sprocket 1000 gems.

That 0 gem difference you did not pay would have cost around 0g.

In order to make this 0g up, at the current price of sprockets (43c), it would take 0 sprockets.

Picks are 1000 gems. L2gemshop.

Korossive.7085:

Fixed it for ya

Let’s do a little math.

The molten pick costs 800 gems old version but 1000 normally.

The sprocket 1000 gems.

That 0 gem difference you did not pay would have cost around 0g.

In order to make this 0g up, at the current price of sprockets (43c), it would take 0 sprockets.

Picks are 1000 gems. L2gemshop.

That and they didn’t take into account the bone pick either, which was always 1000.

Talonblaze.3175:

Korossive.7085:

Fixed it for ya

Let’s do a little math.

The molten pick costs 800 gems old version but 1000 normally.

The sprocket 1000 gems.

That 0 gem difference you did not pay would have cost around 0g.

In order to make this 0g up, at the current price of sprockets (43c), it would take 0 sprockets.

Picks are 1000 gems. L2gemshop.

That and they didn’t take into account the bone pick either, which was always 1000.

Nothing in this topic has anything to do with the bone pick.

Korossive.7085:

Fixed it for ya

Let’s do a little math.

The molten pick costs 800 gems old version but 1000 normally.

The sprocket 1000 gems.

That 0 gem difference you did not pay would have cost around 0g.

In order to make this 0g up, at the current price of sprockets (43c), it would take 0 sprockets.

Picks are 1000 gems. L2gemshop.

As was stated on the first page by the topic creator:

Mystic.5934:

DarcShriek.5829:

You paid 800 gems for it. The new one costs 1000. You’ll get no refund.

I’m only expecting 800 gems back.

So, regardless of the gem shop, the topic creator is focusing on 800 gems.

l2readthetopic

OP must think getting 1 sprocket every node is some end-game heresy or something. Sprockets don’t sell for crack especially with all the events and marionette usually giving atleast 10 per super fail. I still like the molten pick aesthetic better. Until sprockets are worth more than a few copper a piece, or we get 20 sprockets per pick swing, this thread is just rediculous.

OptimistPrime.9283:

Nothing in this topic has anything to do with the bone pick.

The bone pick functions exactly like the molten one, however it never benefited from the fact early purchasers got a reduced price. If anyone has more of a right to complain about their gear being outdated and obsolete, its those who purchased the bone pick. Given its the same price as the sprocket for less.

Talonblaze.3175:

OptimistPrime.9283:

Nothing in this topic has anything to do with the bone pick.

The bone pick functions exactly like the molten one, however it never benefited from the fact early purchasers got a reduced price. If anyone has more of a right to complain about their gear being outdated and obsolete, its those who purchased the bone pick. Given its the same price as the sprocket for less.

Then go make your own topic.

This topic is specifically for the Molten Alliance Mining Pick, which has a much different situation.

OptimistPrime.9283:

Then go make your own topic.

This topic is specifically for the Molten Alliance Mining Pick, which has a much different situation.

Tell me how the situation is any different save for a 200 gem difference for the early adopters? It has alot of the same problems that concerns it if not more.
A separate thread for it would be redundant.

Talonblaze.3175:

OptimistPrime.9283:

Then go make your own topic.

This topic is specifically for the Molten Alliance Mining Pick, which has a much different situation.

Tell me how the situation is any different save for a 200 gem difference for the early adopters? It has alot of the same problems that concerns it if not more.
A separate thread for it would be redundant.

I did. The topic at hand is whether or not the Molten pick should get a refund. With 200 gems of difference, it is fiscally irresponsible to ask for a refund, buy the pick, and then have to make up that 10g in sprockets which is close to impossible.

You purchased yours for 1000 gems. Your argument is less fiscal and more what you feel entitled to, (which is nothing mind you). There IS no argument for your case. You purchased something, and then an upgraded version came out. You have no right to a refund because you got exactly what you purchased. Was it bad timing on your part? Yes. And I am sorry for that. But that is what happened. The Molten pick people have even less of an argument, but at least I can say “you are making a terrible choice if you even want a refund” for them.

If the new pick is as disruptive as people claim it is, then the solution is a no brainer. Buy the new pick and you will easily and quickly earn more than enough to pay for whatever past mistakes you made.

Darkobra.6439:

Dahkeus.8243:

So…someone who bought an iPhone 4 should be able to get a refund to buy and iPhone 5 then, right?

Your analogies cause me great pain and you’re banned from using them until you’ve completed further education that has taught you how to use them properly.

win :P

I would like a refund of all the karma/gold I spent on exotic armor that is now RUINED because I was unaware that you were going to introduce ascended armor, which became BiS. All the karma armor just sits in my bank gathering dust.

Shakkara.2641:

killahmayne.9518:

It isn’t like they changed the item that you bought, they just introduced a new pick.

Which made the previous one obsolete.

In a game that shouldn’t have planned obsolescence in the first place (Advertised as having no vertical progression!)

You paid for the first pick knowing exactly what you were purchasing.
It still does the same thing it did when you purchased it. It has not changed from that.
You got what you paid for. This does not entitle you to free upgrades every time a new gathering tool is released.

Deamhan.9538:

Wait, what? I have the first set from one of my characters (a character I don’t even have anymore). They make shiny trophies since they are still bound to that character. What is this account bound upgrade you speak of?

as Zaxares said. Since you deleted the character, you won’t be able to take it out of the bank. I’m pretty sure you could make a support ticket to have them exchange it for you manually, just explain your situation to them.

OptimistPrime.9283:

This topic is specifically for the Molten Alliance Mining Pick, which has a much different situation.

I have to disagree here. Just because I got a good deal on this pick doesn’t mean it’s price tag is any less. They changed the price, it is now 1000 gems, same as this new pick. Many people paid that 1000 gems, and many people payed 1000 gems for the bone pick. Those people deserve a refund as well, not just people who got the early-bird special.

I don’t see how the 800 gem price makes any difference. the purpose of the refund is to exchange for the better model. I’m fully expecting to pay the price difference.

I got the 20% figure from dulfy… I usually take her word on things. http://dulfy.net/2014/01/28/gw2-gemstore-update-watchwork-mining-pick-and-mask-of-silent-sun/
It was confirmed elsewhere, but they probably got their 20% figure from her as well :P
Hmmm… the chance to get a gem from a node is also around 20% – if this sprocket really does replace that gem, I would be inclined to resend my request (that would make this new pick different but similar). Does anyone actually have a new pick to test with? just do a bunch of harvesting (ideally around 100 nodes), then tell us how many nodes and what you got out of them.
I highly doubt it could replace the chance of more ore – that chance is closer to 5%.

Mystic.5934:

Deamhan.9538:

Wait, what? I have the first set from one of my characters (a character I don’t even have anymore). They make shiny trophies since they are still bound to that character. What is this account bound upgrade you speak of?

as Zaxares said. Since you deleted the character, you won’t be able to take it out of the bank. I’m pretty sure you could make a support ticket to have them exchange it for you manually, just explain your situation to them.

OptimistPrime.9283:

This topic is specifically for the Molten Alliance Mining Pick, which has a much different situation.

I have to disagree here. Just because I got a good deal on this pick doesn’t mean it’s price tag is any less. They changed the price, it is now 1000 gems, same as this new pick. Many people paid that 1000 gems, and many people payed 1000 gems for the bone pick. Those people deserve a refund as well, not just people who got the early-bird special.

I don’t see how the 800 gem price makes any difference. the purpose of the refund is to exchange for the better model. I’m fully expecting to pay the price difference.

I got the 20% figure from dulfy… I usually take her word on things. http://dulfy.net/2014/01/28/gw2-gemstore-update-watchwork-mining-pick-and-mask-of-silent-sun/
It was confirmed elsewhere, but they probably got their 20% figure from her as well :P
Hmmm… the chance to get a gem from a node is also around 20% – if this sprocket really does replace that gem, I would be inclined to resend my request (that would make this new pick different but similar). Does anyone actually have a new pick to test with? just do a bunch of harvesting (ideally around 100 nodes), then tell us how many nodes and what you got out of them.
I highly doubt it could replace the chance of more ore – that chance is closer to 5%.

No, they don’t deserve a refund. No one does. You knew what you were purchasing and got what you purchased. Exactly what you purchased.

Nothing is stopping you from purchasing the new one either. Buy it and go crazy if you really want it.

Because that is precisely what this issue is about – wants not needs. Anyone who purchased a Molten Pick (8 months old) or a Bone Pick (2 months old) got precisely what they knowingly paid for. And now you have the opportunity to knowingly purchase a new one should you desire it.

Go for it if you have this much of an issue.

OP did you actually try to get a refund?

As many people have (more or less) said before me:

You made a purchase of your own free will. You got what you paid for. You still have what you paid for. The item hasn’t changed. It still works as intended. End of story.

The fact that they released a new item of the same type that does something more (different maybe), doesn’t mean that your item is obsolete or doesn’t work anymore. It works EXACTLY as it should.
So seriously, get over yourself and stop whining about this absolutely insignificant feature in the new pickaxe.

If and when they add a gathering tool that gives a chance of some actually significant (valuable) material, then we can talk about a problem. This is not a problem.

Also, talking about vertical progression in a gathering tool doesn’t really make any sense.. the tool doesn’t have any effect on your ability to perform within the game..

Wow this is really still going? Okay how about this:

You buy a car for £10,000. A year later (or some other arbitrary period of time) the manufacturer bring out a new version of the car for the same price which is better, say it’s got leather seats and you get more mileage per gallon.

Do you honestly go back to the car company to complain?

Ren.5842:

Wow this is really still going? Okay how about this:

You buy a car for £10,000. A year later (or some other arbitrary period of time) the manufacturer bring out a new version of the car for the same price which is better, say it’s got leather seats and you get more mileage per gallon.

Do you honestly go back to the car company to complain?

Yes! It’s totally unfair that I paid such and such amount of money for a car for them to release another version that’s better. That’s such an evil thing of them to do. Just the other day I tried to return a blu-ray of this one movie I had bought many months ago because an extended edition was released and it was like totally unfair that they didn’t notify me that they were planning to do this. Of course the store refused to refund me so I’m going to refuse to shop there from now on. They’re just greedy.

:)

rolling on the floor laughing hysterically

Really? This is what has people up in arms? That anet brought out another infinite pick, and to entice people to buy it, they gave it a chance to produce a sprocket during mining?

First, this is not really an uncommon tactic for any business. Electronics manufacturer’s are terrible for this sort of thing. Its called upgrading and we do it with things everyday – tablets, cell phones, washers, refrigerators, cars, etc etc. The list is long and it’s been a common vein for marketing since…well, forever.

Second, the molten pick is not invalidated by this. Unless it suddenly becomes not infinite, or no longer works for orichalum, it is still a perfectly functional tool and does exactly what it says it does. Not everyone gives two shakes about sprockets, and it’s not like we can’t get them any other way.

Gosh, some people really will have fits over any little thing.

Sure, I will go with this strange car metaphor, we all bought `new´cars and Arena Net is the extremely dodgy salesman/junkyard owner.

Really the comparison you two chose is not helping your argument in the slightest. If you can not justify things without a metaphor, then perhaps their is no justification to your point of view at all.

Do either of you even own a molten pick? Arena Net have added vertical progression to harvesting tools, vertical progression is quite disliked by the player base and Arena Net themselves have said they do not wish to add constant gear grind. The Molten pick was advertised as `The last pick you will ever need´ apparently it is not as they have released a better pick making the old one obsolete. It is natural to be angry that you were mislead and feel cheated, to act as though people are being self-entitled is just plain insulting.

As for greedy, Ayrilana I am looking at you, 1000 gems, that is what? just under fifteen euro? Now that is greed!

If you would take the time and earn the gold rather than take up a support agents time in trying to get free things. Or for that matter the time that you spend complaining about this most likely you would have already had one by now. Items in the game get upgraded it is going to happen. There is nothing wrong with putting an item in the shop that is better than an item that was put in months ago. This is along the same line of upset complaints that happened when they put out the heroic edition of GW2. A handful of people that ordered the deluxe and higher edition when the game launched got upset because almost a year later a new version comes out with different items and it upset them.

Read signature.

Zypher.7609:

Read signature.

You should read your signature more, your post itself is one large complaint.

Aedelric.1287:

-snip-

`The last pick you will ever need´ apparently it is not as they have released a better pick making the old one obsolete

-snip-

See, here’s the issue.

The old pick is not obsolete. Not in the least. It still does everything it said it does. It also is still true that it is the last pick you would ever need.

You do not need the new pick. You want it because it gives some extra incentive, but that extra incentive is not a necessity. There is a difference.

Newer models have to give you some desire to upgrade, otherwise no one ever would. Why would you buy a PS4 if your PS3 could do everything a PS4 could do? Why would you upgrade your cell phone if the newer model did not offer something better? Short of the item ceasing to function, there would be no incentive to upgrade.

The new pick entices up to upgrade, but we do not have to unless we want to. The old pick still functions. Still does exactly what it claimed, and is the ‘last pick I’ll ever need’ because I don’t have to buy any others.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aedelric.1287:

-snip-

`The last pick you will ever need´ apparently it is not as they have released a better pick making the old one obsolete

-snip-

See, here’s the issue.

The old pick is not obsolete. Not in the least. It still does everything it said it does. It also is still true that it is the last pick you would ever need.

You do not need the new pick. You want it because it gives some extra incentive, but that extra incentive is not a necessity. There is a difference.

Newer models have to give you some desire to upgrade, otherwise no one ever would. Why would you buy a PS4 if your PS3 could do everything a PS4 could do? Why would you upgrade your cell phone if the newer model did not offer something better? Short of the item ceasing to function, there would be no incentive to upgrade.

The new pick entices up to upgrade, but we do not have to unless we want to. The old pick still functions. Still does exactly what it claimed, and is the ‘last pick I’ll ever need’ because I don’t have to buy any others.

The problem with your comparison is that the PS4 came out about 7 years after the PS3, not 1-2 months. How would you feel if you bought a PS3 for $399 and then 1-2 months later a PS4 came out for $399 and you couldn’t refund your PS3 and were stuck with it? That’s pretty much what Anet has done to it’s customers by offering the Molten pick 1-2 months ago in a trio set of molten alliance tools for 2850 gems and now offering this new pick.

The real point though is like I’ve stated, the vertical progression of gem store items. This is the first step to a P2W system just like Lineage 2 had and Aion had. But I don’t find it surprising since this game is run by NcSoft, the same people who did those other 2 games. Welcome to the ground floor of GW2 P2W.

And also with this new pick, once they remove Scarlet, you will have no other way of acquiring sprockets unless you have a home node. The other picks functioned exactly like merchant bought Ori picks so they were just a cosmetic/convienence thing and didn’t offer any kind of an advantage. The new picks clearly will offer an advantage however small, it is still an advantage and like I said, probably the first of many in the start of Anet/NcSoft’s money grab.

Aedelric.1287:

Sure, I will go with this strange car metaphor, we all bought `new´cars and Arena Net is the extremely dodgy salesman/junkyard owner.

Really the comparison you two chose is not helping your argument in the slightest. If you can not justify things without a metaphor, then perhaps their is no justification to your point of view at all.

Do either of you even own a molten pick? Arena Net have added vertical progression to harvesting tools, vertical progression is quite disliked by the player base and Arena Net themselves have said they do not wish to add constant gear grind. The Molten pick was advertised as `The last pick you will ever need´ apparently it is not as they have released a better pick making the old one obsolete. It is natural to be angry that you were mislead and feel cheated, to act as though people are being self-entitled is just plain insulting.

As for greedy, Ayrilana I am looking at you, 1000 gems, that is what? just under fifteen euro? Now that is greed!

Metaphors were used because quite often people are so emotionally attached to a particular point of view that they’re blinded and cannot see where other people are coming from. The metaphors set up a similar (doesn’t need to be identical) scenario where the other person may not have an emotional stake. If they can see where the other individual is coming from with the metaphor then they can use it to see where they’re coming from with the current situation.

I personally don’t use metaphors and such unless I suspect people won’t understand my argument on a particular issue. It’s just easier this way than to constantly repeat yourself over and over until it goes through, if ever. There are other uses for them but this is how I primarily choose to use them. They themselves are not a valid argument but they’re just used to clarify.

The picks have about a 20% chance of a sprocket or whatever. I doubt it’ll be raised higher than that for other tools. Nor do I believe they will do anything drastic that will make them game breaking. You will not see them producing ectos. I also want to point out that chances are that the extra bonus items from the tools will be sellable on the TP which actually benefits the community with lower prices. Not everyone will have a need for whatever item is included as a bonus.

The older picks still function the same as they did before. They are still the last pick you will ever need as you do not have to keep going to a vendor to restock. Not everyone cares for the bonuses and they occur at such a low percentage that it likely won’t be beneficial to get an entire new scavenge tool. Yes, it may seem unfair that there’s a slightly better version but this is how it works in the real world too and there’s no reason why the game cannot borrow real world concepts and ideas.

You’re paying for a convenience and 1,000 gems is not unreasonable. You also do not have to buy it. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and demanding you to buy. It’s completely a “want” thing rather than a “need” thing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aedelric.1287:

-snip-

`The last pick you will ever need´ apparently it is not as they have released a better pick making the old one obsolete

-snip-

See, here’s the issue.

The old pick is not obsolete. Not in the least. It still does everything it said it does. It also is still true that it is the last pick you would ever need.

You do not need the new pick. You want it because it gives some extra incentive, but that extra incentive is not a necessity. There is a difference.

Newer models have to give you some desire to upgrade, otherwise no one ever would. Why would you buy a PS4 if your PS3 could do everything a PS4 could do? Why would you upgrade your cell phone if the newer model did not offer something better? Short of the item ceasing to function, there would be no incentive to upgrade.

The new pick entices up to upgrade, but we do not have to unless we want to. The old pick still functions. Still does exactly what it claimed, and is the ‘last pick I’ll ever need’ because I don’t have to buy any others.

Again with the metaphors, the old pick is inferior and as such obsolete. Not sure your definition of obsolete is the same as the rest of us.

You mention incentives, the pick does not require an extra incentive, an infinite pick is incentive enough, I know as I purchased one. The store was sold to us as a cosmetic only place and yet here we are with vertical progression on store items. I will buy one to support Arena Net as it has a nice effect, so long as they remove the sprocket bonus and make it equal to all the other store harvesting items, till then I will feel angry and cheated essentially wanting my gems back.

As for picking and cutting my post, care to respond to all issues I mentioned not just one small part? We all have an agenda here and want our opinions taken seriously, but it is hard to do when you flat out ignore other peoples legitimate complaints Lanfear.

Sauzo.6821:

The problem with your comparison is that the PS4 came out about 7 years after the PS3, not 1-2 months. How would you feel if you bought a PS3 for $399 and then 1-2 months later a PS4 came out for $399 and you couldn’t refund your PS3 and were stuck with it? That’s pretty much what Anet has done to it’s customers by offering the Molten pick 1-2 months ago in a trio set of molten alliance tools for 2850 gems and now offering this new pick.

Ok fine… compare it to phone models, or computer processors, which are out of date within 6 months of purchase. It’s the same difference.

The real point though is like I’ve stated, the vertical progression of gem store items. This is the first step to a P2W system just like Lineage 2 had and Aion had. But I don’t find it surprising since this game is run by NcSoft, the same people who did those other 2 games. Welcome to the ground floor of GW2 P2W.

And also with this new pick, once they remove Scarlet, you will have no other way of acquiring sprockets unless you have a home node. The other picks functioned exactly like merchant bought Ori picks so they were just a cosmetic/convienence thing and didn’t offer any kind of an advantage. The new picks clearly will offer an advantage however small, it is still an advantage and like I said, probably the first of many in the start of Anet/NcSoft’s money grab.

I get sprockets out of bags still.

Will the invasions go away after season 1 is over? I get sprockets from killing the watchwork in those.

Will watchwork become a permenant foe in some of the maps at the close of the season, or will they completely go away?

How many people got the node vs how many didn’t? How many of those will just dump them on the TP?

There is nothing that has stated that there will be no other means of obtaining sprockets. I think a lot of you are seriously overreacting.

You are missing the point. The sprockets alone mean jack. Again it’s the fact that the pick is the beginning of a P2W system. To start with Anet offered the molten trio set 1-2 months ago for 2850 gems knowing that this new pick was going to be released. So in essence they were just cash grabbing with that molten set to customers which is just insulting. Now with the new pick, there is a clearly an advantage with it however small, it is still an advantage. So next they can make a new axe and harvesting tool and then maybe a new kit better than BL ones and sell those on the cash grab store too. After that offer better boosters or new ranks of class skills and then hell why stop there. Maybe offer legendary quality weapons for sale. See what’s happening? Anet has opened the door to the start of a P2W system with this pick and I’m sure the gap between players will increase. So soon it will be “Oh you don’t have the new set of higher tiered skills? Sorry we don’t feel like carrying you in this dungeon. /kick” So while you are most certainly right that a pick that offers a few sprockets is hardly something to get bent over, the idea behind it and direction it looks like Anet is going coupled with like I said the pure cash grab of offering an “obsolete” tool set 1-2 months ago and then this new one in such a short span is starting to show Anets true colors and definitely isn’t going to instill any form of trust to them from their customers.