Guild Wars 2

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Today I sold an SAB instance and the people were all really nice and there were no issues. Personally I think selling services is perfectly okay, it’s been a part of the game for a long time (like selling dungeons, JPs, LS achievements,…), it was even approved by Anet.

Why would the people being nice be relevant? , This situation is different, selling was not in possible and was actively being prevented by an instance kick, which people circumvented.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Yes I do agree that this diminishes the value of these acc-bound skins (and the aura) and allows players who wouldn’t normally be able to do it to obtain them. But honestly the problem is not as big as you’re making it out to be.

I have a problem with it though, 90% of all the games items can be bought in some way with gold, there needs to be some section to reward players actually playing the game well that can’t be matched by someone dropping 10,000$ on the game. Otherwise there is no point in playing.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

First, not all the people who buy services are noobs who can’t play the game. Sometimes they are actually pretty skilled players who’ve been hoarding a lot of gold over the years and just buy stuff they cannot be bothered to learn (even though they could do it if they wanted).

Unless you implement a way to separate those two groups it’s still an issue. I wouldn’t have an issue if it was only people who had solo completed all tribulation modes that had access but that’s not the case.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Second, you underestimate the amount of gold people have to pay to get all the skins. If they want both auras, it means they have to buy each zone of both worlds 16 times, which amounts to roughly 400g. Sure it’s not too hard to get this money, but don’t forget it also does take some effort. Do you spend 40 hours doing SAB or do you spend 40 hours doing some other activity and just buy the tokens? Doesn’t make much difference to me.

25 euro, 400g is roughly that. It brings 40 hours down to 62 cents an hour… not sure about you but my times worth nearly 100 times that if we were just talking pure gold.
Plus it’s a game you’re meant to do specific activities to get specific rewards, to prove you can, to compete in the game, It shouldn’t be all reduced to farm gold.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Third, you have to look at it from the other side. This aspect of the game enriches gameplay and allows more skilled players to make money in an interesting way. If someone is so good that he can run trib mode in a very short time and sell it 40 times a day, he sure deserves that gold.

More skilled players shouldn’t have to be resorting to this, if the game was balanced correctly they would have moved beyond the economy by now and anything they want would require content completions or achievement completions. The fact this is being given as a reasoning shows there an issue and that gold is speaking more than skill.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Also, trib mode isn’t really all that hard. I’m sure most people who buy it were just afraid of even trying it because they’ve heard how crazy it is. In reality, if they took a few minutes to look it up and try it, they would realise it doesn’t take some crazy skill and would hate themselves for buying it since most people can finish it with some patience. I watched my friends who aren’t good at jumping doing trib mode. Yes they’ve struggled and it took them quite a bit of time, but eventually everyone finished every zone. It’s not hard.

It’s a gate, thats generally the idea, A fair amount of people won’t run Arah because it’s the final dungeon so clearly it has to be impossible even though it’s not. It’s not what they could do it’s about what they have done.

Look basically it comes down to this, if everything in the game can be gotten for gold then it has wasted my time and is not worth playing, it’s not what I signed up for and it’s why i have an issue with this and will continue to fight it.
I play MMO’s to collect rare items and prestige items. Not to have all my time outdone by someone using their wallet.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Getting a legendary never really required that much skill (only money and gold), so those skins aren’t prestige either?

No.

Never have been in my opinion.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Getting a legendary never really required that much skill (only money and gold), so those skins aren’t prestige either?

But then, I never understood that “prestige” stuff. I get a skin because I like it, not because somebody else likes it or would look at that skin and thinks I’m such-and-such player…

There really isn’t much prestige to legendaries in terms of skill, but there is in terms of effort/time.

But I’m not arguing that the legendary acquisition system is good. The SAB system was, and ANet just helped ruin it.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

But I’m not arguing that the legendary acquisition system is good. The SAB system was, and ANet just helped ruin it.

They will fix it. If not this week, then next year.

Why care about what others do?

Conski Deshan.2057:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Today I sold an SAB instance and the people were all really nice and there were no issues. Personally I think selling services is perfectly okay, it’s been a part of the game for a long time (like selling dungeons, JPs, LS achievements,…), it was even approved by Anet.

Why would the people being nice be relevant? , This situation is different, selling was not in possible and was actively being prevented by an instance kick, which people circumvented.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Yes I do agree that this diminishes the value of these acc-bound skins (and the aura) and allows players who wouldn’t normally be able to do it to obtain them. But honestly the problem is not as big as you’re making it out to be.

I have a problem with it though, 90% of all the games items can be bought in some way with gold, there needs to be some section to reward players actually playing the game well that can’t be matched by someone dropping 10,000$ on the game. Otherwise there is no point in playing.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

First, not all the people who buy services are noobs who can’t play the game. Sometimes they are actually pretty skilled players who’ve been hoarding a lot of gold over the years and just buy stuff they cannot be bothered to learn (even though they could do it if they wanted).

Unless you implement a way to separate those two groups it’s still an issue. I wouldn’t have an issue if it was only people who had solo completed all tribulation modes that had access but that’s not the case.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Second, you underestimate the amount of gold people have to pay to get all the skins. If they want both auras, it means they have to buy each zone of both worlds 16 times, which amounts to roughly 400g. Sure it’s not too hard to get this money, but don’t forget it also does take some effort. Do you spend 40 hours doing SAB or do you spend 40 hours doing some other activity and just buy the tokens? Doesn’t make much difference to me.

25 euro, 400g is roughly that. It brings 40 hours down to 62 cents an hour… not sure about you but my times worth nearly 100 times that if we were just talking pure gold.
Plus it’s a game you’re meant to do specific activities to get specific rewards, to prove you can, to compete in the game, It shouldn’t be all reduced to farm gold.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Third, you have to look at it from the other side. This aspect of the game enriches gameplay and allows more skilled players to make money in an interesting way. If someone is so good that he can run trib mode in a very short time and sell it 40 times a day, he sure deserves that gold.

More skilled players shouldn’t have to be resorting to this, if the game was balanced correctly they would have moved beyond the economy by now and anything they want would require content completions or achievement completions. The fact this is being given as a reasoning shows there an issue and that gold is speaking more than skill.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Also, trib mode isn’t really all that hard. I’m sure most people who buy it were just afraid of even trying it because they’ve heard how crazy it is. In reality, if they took a few minutes to look it up and try it, they would realise it doesn’t take some crazy skill and would hate themselves for buying it since most people can finish it with some patience. I watched my friends who aren’t good at jumping doing trib mode. Yes they’ve struggled and it took them quite a bit of time, but eventually everyone finished every zone. It’s not hard.

It’s a gate, thats generally the idea, A fair amount of people won’t run Arah because it’s the final dungeon so clearly it has to be impossible even though it’s not. It’s not what they could do it’s about what they have done.

Look basically it comes down to this, if everything in the game can be gotten for gold then it has wasted my time and is not worth playing, it’s not what I signed up for and it’s why i have an issue with this and will continue to fight it.
I play MMO’s to collect rare items and prestige items. Not to have all my time outdone by someone using their wallet.

“Look basically it comes down to this, if everything in the game can be gotten for gold then it has wasted my time and is not worth playing, it’s not what I signed up for and it’s why i have an issue with this and will continue to fight it.
I play MMO’s to collect rare items and prestige items. Not to have all my time outdone by someone using their wallet.”

Maybe you should collect stones or somethign in real life instead, that sure as hell is more prestigeous then some skins in a videogame.

Then i wan’t my PVP backitems for gold even though i don’t play PVP and i suck at it surely i should be able to buy them for gold…

What is wrong with that ?

Anet should simply ban those exploiters and not play political correcties.

Chris Cleary.8017:

As of now we don’t have a problem with players doing this. While the late join is unintended, if players want to pay for this service, that’s fine. It does trivialize the skins some, but this isn’t any different than the skins from purchasing a raid run or a dungeon run (which we also are ok with). As long as the transaction is completed and players are getting what they paid for, fine.

So Arenanet is encouraging blatant exploits now? This is so wrong.

TalleFjanten.7159:

“Look basically it comes down to this, if everything in the game can be gotten for gold then it has wasted my time and is not worth playing, it’s not what I signed up for and it’s why i have an issue with this and will continue to fight it.
I play MMO’s to collect rare items and prestige items. Not to have all my time outdone by someone using their wallet.”

Maybe you should collect stones or somethign in real life instead, that sure as hell is more prestigeous then some skins in a videogame.

Oh yes clearly I meant real world prestige there’s no chance I was talking about it in an in game context, in an MMO also known as the genre for bragging rights, prestige and generally trying to outdo other players. /s

what is it about the term that elicits such a negative response from a small group of players?
It’s not like it’s a secret. A major aspect of MMO’s, that all of the media both satirical and non have in common is the concept of prestige. The player finds a rare item, the player is the first to complete a dungeon, the player completed a challenge long thought impossible, the player is part of an elite guild that completed an ultra difficult dungeon and all got rewards some special item etc. The player does something impressive within the game, the player does not waddle over to the trading post and buy it.

It’s a way to reward players on something other than gold and time spent, it gives value to individuals rather than just your two stats.

Prestige isn’t a claim that it has some real world value, it’s items and skins that generally indicated improvement and being better in a game context.
It’s the “anything you can do I can do better” friendly competition present in every MMO.

But all of this is beside the issue in this thread.

They allowed the use of an exploit, just because it didn’t effect the gold based economy apparently deciding the other consequences were acceptable losses.

No amount of sugar coating or “well it wasn’t that bad” , or “it made me happy” goes around that point.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

CrashTestAuto.9108:

But I’m not arguing that the legendary acquisition system is good. The SAB system was, and ANet just helped ruin it.

They will fix it. If not this week, then next year.

Sure, but it’s too late now. If they’d stayed quiet then there’d have been some exploits, but nowhere near as many. LFG is filled with trib sellers. The skins are completely devalued, thanks to that single unnecessary ANet post.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Sure, but it’s too late now. If they’d stayed quiet then there’d have been some exploits, but nowhere near as many. LFG is filled with trib sellers. The skins are completely devalued, thanks to that single unnecessary ANet post.

So much this, I feel sorry for anyone who went through TM properly with anything more than very low ping. I am sure there are people who have had to put in some real effort either in improving their own execution or fighting latency when it comes to going through Tribulation mode (the latter being why I don’t do Tribulation mode myself, and my ping isn’t even that bad).

While with this single action from ArenaNet, there will now be people who have finished the entire collections in flash just because they have superfluous in-game wealth.

Crise.9401:

So much this, I feel sorry for anyone who went through TM properly with anything more than very low ping. I am sure there are people who have had to put in some real effort either in improving their own execution or fighting latency when it comes to going through Tribulation mode (the latter being why I don’t do Tribulation mode myself, and my ping isn’t even that bad).

While with this single action from ArenaNet, there will now be people who have finished the entire collections in flash just because they have superfluous in-game wealth.

Don’t feel sorry for me. I had fun learning how to tribulation, and every checkpoint cleared was a pretty solid high (or a collapse into relief, depending on how many times I fell into lava). The fun, and getting a shiny green greatsword skin for my reaper, was totally worth the time I spent. I don’t give a good godkitten if other people with those skins paid for them and I sure as heck don’t think it diminishes what I accomplished. Only I can take that away from myself, most efficiently by obsessing over ~prestige~ that doesn’t actually matter to anyone outside of a tiny fraction of elitists.

Batelle.1680:

Don’t feel sorry for me. I had fun learning how to tribulation, and every checkpoint cleared was a pretty solid high (or a collapse into relief, depending on how many times I fell into lava). The fun, and getting a shiny green greatsword skin for my reaper, was totally worth the time I spent. I don’t give a good godkitten if other people with those skins paid for them and I sure as heck don’t think it diminishes what I accomplished. Only I can take that away from myself, most efficiently by obsessing over ~prestige~ that doesn’t actually matter to anyone outside of a tiny fraction of elitists.

This just isn’t true. I’m glad that you’re happy with your skin, I really am. But the idea that prestige items and rewards only matter to a tiny fraction of elitists is just obviously wrong. Look at sports, look at achievement systems, look at competitions, look at… pretty much look at every area of life, and you’ll see people competing to earn trophies or titles or jobs or possessions they had to work to get and couldn’t get elsewhere.

Imagine if the World Cup just gave participation badges to every team (and anyone else who showed up with some money), with no trophies or anything for winning? Society is built on this kind of thing. Yes, there are people like yourself who are completely happy with their own personal knowledge, but suggesting that this is reflective of the vast majority just doesn’t make sense.

Heck, if what you say was true then they should just implement a “Press X to unlock all legendaries” button in the wardrobe. People would have the option to earn it “properly” or they could just press the button and get the exact same thing.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

This just isn’t true. I’m glad that you’re happy with your skin, I really am. But the idea that prestige items and rewards only matter to a tiny fraction of elitists is just obviously wrong. Look at sports, look at achievement systems, look at competitions, look at… pretty much look at every area of life, and you’ll see people competing to earn trophies or titles or jobs or possessions they had to work to get and couldn’t get elsewhere.

Imagine if the World Cup just gave participation badges to every team (and anyone else who showed up with some money), with no trophies or anything for winning? Society is built on this kind of thing. Yes, there are people like yourself who are completely happy with their own personal knowledge, but suggesting that this is reflective of the vast majority just doesn’t make sense.

Heck, if what you say was true then they should just implement a “Press X to unlock all legendaries” button in the wardrobe. People would have the option to earn it “properly” or they could just press the button and get the exact same thing.

1. This is a game that people play as escapism from their actual lives. I’m disfigured and I have a hard time walking because of it. I love playing GW2 because I can run and jump and move in ways I can’t in real life. Erecting ability barriers around everything would render much of that enjoyment moot because I’d constantly be reminded of all the things in actual life I don’t have access to because of barriers of ability.

2. Even with rewards and trophies and professional leagues, tons of people do things just for the fun of it. I’m comfortable saying that, in fact, a significant portion of the populace is more likely to do stuff for the fun of it than they are because they’re going to be ranked and given exclusive rewards.

3. Most every high level achievement in any given thing is the product of more than just skill- it requires the time to practice (a luxury), it requires tangible resources (access to training/money to pay for training/independent wealth so that training can be a priority), it requires access to knowledge. There are very few sports/sporting events that are truly representative of the actual most skilled in the world- almost all of them come to that point because somebody threw money (lots and lots of it) at the situation.

4. There’s a fairly significant gap between thinking people should get whatever they want when they want it, and for free, and approving of there being more than a single way to acquire a skin or item.

Batelle.1680:

1. This is a game that people play as escapism from their actual lives. I’m disfigured and I have a hard time walking because of it. I love playing GW2 because I can run and jump and move in ways I can’t in real life. Erecting ability barriers around everything would render much of that enjoyment moot because I’d constantly be reminded of all the things in actual life I don’t have access to because of barriers of ability.

2. Even with rewards and trophies and professional leagues, tons of people do things just for the fun of it. I’m comfortable saying that, in fact, a significant portion of the populace is more likely to do stuff for the fun of it than they are because they’re going to be ranked and given exclusive rewards.

3. Most every high level achievement in any given thing is the product of more than just skill- it requires the time to practice (a luxury), it requires tangible resources (access to training/money to pay for training/independent wealth so that training can be a priority), it requires access to knowledge. There are very few sports/sporting events that are truly representative of the actual most skilled in the world- almost all of them come to that point because somebody threw money (lots and lots of it) at the situation.

4. There’s a fairly significant gap between thinking people should get whatever they want when they want it, and for free, and approving of there being more than a single way to acquire a skin or item.

99% of the skins in the game are extremely easy to get, or can just be bought off the trading post.

No one is suggesting that everything should be locked behind skill gates, but this was one tiny area of the game where the people who care about rewards actually could have a prestige item.

They even made them palette swaps. If you couldn’t or didn’t want to work for the green and yellow skins you could buy the blue skins on the TP. Even the orange skins are easy to get at least one of.

If you want to play your way, no one is stopping you. But for the (I’m sorry, I maintain its a big proportion) people who want some kind of goal or skill based reward system, this was basically all we had.

I could care less that you could sell Trib runs to people, that isn’t the issue and shouldn’t even be at this point, it’s the fact you have to exploit to sell in the first place that’s more irritating than anything, and it bugs the hell out of me anet condones it. A week and a half ago I was the happiest I had been on this game since the last time SAB came out, and now it’s just turned into me being annoyed once again by Anet and getting the SAB skins in a legit manner has absolutely no value anymore. I mean ya you can say Anet said it’s ok so its not an exploit, and that is a load of garbage. It’s like saying oh, well Mommy said its ok, but its still wrong to punch little Timmy.

Like I said before, if it was intended people could join your party, I would not care people can just buy their achievements for the bland infusions. It’s the fact that I sit here and play a game that i constantly hate those that made the game in the first place because of inconsistent and pathetic decisions.

I could sit here and continue to farm the skins legitly, but even if I so proudly display any of these skins, it just bugs the hell out of me that i know random people and even friends will just notice the skins and say, ah, he probably exploited for those skins/infusions anyway or question if i exploited it or not since that’s what most of them are doing anyway, just like any one person does when they see The Eternal title and go “ya know, they just bought the title anyway.”

I love SAB, but man…these last few days trying to wrap up the last few remaining skins in SAB has made me realize I’m just as likely to stop logging in again when I get them as I was before SAB even came back and then question why I even bothered to play beyond the initial first weekend of SAB considering how pointless all this effort is…I never even thought I would ever think like this either in regards to SAB, and I always said, if they can somehow, someway, screw up SAB for me, then there is absolutely no hope left in this game.

Mr Ko Killer.7206:

I could care less that you could sell Trib runs to people, that isn’t the issue and shouldn’t even be at this point, it’s the fact you have to exploit to sell in the first place that’s more irritating than anything, and it bugs the hell out of me anet condones it. A week and a half ago I was the happiest I had been on this game since the last time SAB came out, and now it’s just turned into me being annoyed once again by Anet and getting the SAB skins in a legit manner has absolutely no value anymore. I mean ya you can say Anet said it’s ok so its not an exploit, and that is a load of garbage. It’s like saying oh, well Mommy said its ok, but its still wrong to punch little Timmy.

Like I said before, if it was intended people could join your party, I would not care people can just buy their achievements for the bland infusions. It’s the fact that I sit here and play a game that i constantly hate those that made the game in the first place because of inconsistent and pathetic decisions.

I could sit here and continue to farm the skins legitly, but even if I so proudly display any of these skins, it just bugs the hell out of me that i know random people and even friends will just notice the skins and say, ah, he probably exploited for those skins/infusions anyway or question if i exploited it or not since that’s what most of them are doing anyway, just like any one person does when they see The Eternal title and go “ya know, they just bought the title anyway.”

I always said, if they can somehow, someway, screw up SAB for me, then there is absolutely no hope left in this game.

Pretty much this, I like to collect stuff that isn’t easily accessible, though I may not not necessarily show them. But now it is all moot, because people are more likely to assume that content which require effort are just “bought.”

What’s next? Simply buying raid skins with gold at a vendor? It’s only slightly less effort than going through a middleman. Heck, if the end game is “fashion wars” then this is the start of P2W.

lfg tool is dead because of all the people spamming selling SAB paths. I, personally, can’t wait for SAB to go away again.

Conski Deshan.2057:

I was talking about it in an in game context, in an MMO also known as the genre for bragging rights, prestige and generally trying to outdo other players. /s

Never played a single video game for that. I’d bet most play an MMO for entertaining content and social interactions. I’d also bet most play with each other for mutually beneficial reasons. That we’d, by our nature, work together to achieve our goals. Not work against each other and not try to deny each other. We wouldn’t berate the game developers and selfishly ask for content to be made just for ourselves. Nor, even have such an attitude of being better than anyone else.

100% of the games content should be available from multiple avenues. Those avenues should include the Trading Post. Because if someone is “good”, their skills should be able to earn them more than one single item. That’s where trading items has further value.

DeWolfe.2174:

Never played a single video game for that. I’d bet most play an MMO for entertaining content and social interactions. I’d also bet most play with each other for mutually beneficial reasons. That we’d, by our nature, work together to achieve our goals. Not work against each other and not try to deny each other. We wouldn’t berate the game developers and selfishly ask for content to be made just for ourselves. Nor, even have such an attitude of being better than anyone else.

100% of the games content should be available from multiple avenues. Those avenues should include the Trading Post. Because if someone is “good”, their skills should be able to earn them more than one single item. That’s where trading items has further value.

Even if “most” play the game for the reasons you describe (which I really question), why would you then make 100% of the rewards cater to them? Why not make most of the skins cater to them, but still have a small fraction that caters to the rest.

Again, by having colour swaps, SAB allowed for the perfect balance here. All players could get the skins in blue and orange, but the yellow and green sets were there for people who wanted to earn something.

Also, there is no implication that wanting exclusive rewards means unwillingness to help others. I will happily help guildies through trib mode, or give advice in chat. But that doesn’t mean that the skins should be available for basically no effort and a few gold.

DeWolfe.2174:

Conski Deshan.2057:

I was talking about it in an in game context, in an MMO also known as the genre for bragging rights, prestige and generally trying to outdo other players. /s

Never played a single video game for that. I’d bet most play an MMO for entertaining content and social interactions. I’d also bet most play with each other for mutually beneficial reasons. That we’d, by our nature, work together to achieve our goals. Not work against each other and not try to deny each other. We wouldn’t berate the game developers and selfishly ask for content to be made just for ourselves. Nor, even have such an attitude of being better than anyone else.

100% of the games content should be available from multiple avenues. Those avenues should include the Trading Post. Because if someone is “good”, their skills should be able to earn them more than one single item. That’s where trading items has further value.

Just because you don’t play for that reason does not mean others do not. As to the rest of your paragraph, you must have had a very limited MMO experiance I’ve seen it in all of them heck I’ve seen people screw over other people just for fun ( Eve, Archage, Wow, even runescape to an extent). Cooperation and competition go hand in hand. Yes you play together with other people but that does not imply you want everything to be like that.
You can quantify player efforts and assign rewards based on that. Its about setting a challenge and rewarding those who rise to it.

Completely disagree with the second paragraph, that would be pay to win and would turn every player into just another brick in the wall. This is not a single play game there should be ways to stand out and rewards to match.

Now lers go back on topic
Clear cut exploit was allowed and thats not ok, doubly so because it effected one of the few protected achievements.

I always open up my party for free on LFG when arriving at the zone boss. It doesn’t cost me anything and makes up to 4 happy players.

I really wonder whether people take MMOs too seriously.
Nothing is real, not the gold the weapons the skins nothing.
When you leave the game you cant take it with you.
Having a gazillion gold means nothing.
No one cares.

mauried.5608:

I really wonder whether people take MMOs too seriously.
Nothing is real, not the gold the weapons the skins nothing.
When you leave the game you cant take it with you.
Having a gazillion gold means nothing.
No one cares.

The exact same sentiment could be applied to life itself. Nothing matters and no one cares, except for what you choose to care about.

I feel really sorry for everyone who gets so frustrated just because other people can get things. If you care about prestige, you have chosen wrong game, my friend. GW2 has been long known as one of the most casual MMOs out there. The most hardcore PvE content available (raids) is being completed by half the intended amount of people (5 instead of 10) in about a month since its release. Spots in these successful kills can be easily sold or given away to friends. There’s nothing remotely hard or prestige in this game, everything can be completed by everyone (and the devs intentionally design the game this way).
If you want to brag about your amazing accomplishments, do so in a game that was designed for it. GW2 was designed for people to have casual fun and not be pressed too much by the environment.
Also, by playing with someone for a few minutes, you can easily tell how skilled and devoted to the game that person is. Even though you won’t be able to tell in LA, by actually doing content with people you see whether they earned their prestige stuff (storm wizard weapons, eternal title, dungeon skins, amount of LI,…) or whether they got them in some cheezy way. And that is what matters. You have the skill and noone is gonna take that away from you. This is why prestigeous guilds accept people based on their performance at any given moment, not based on some long ago earned achievement or skin.

It would be interesting if we could had a fix for this tomorrow, with no material time to complete collections just by buying spots :P

Tarasicodissa.7084:

I feel really sorry for everyone who gets so frustrated just because other people can get things. If you care about prestige, you have chosen wrong game, my friend.

This is true, but the tribulation skins were introduced in September 2013, and have maintained their prestige all the way up until that dev post on page one of this thread.

That set was one tiny part of the game that catered to people who wanted prestige items. It even had colour variants for casual players, so no one was missing out. Now it has been devalued to the level of everything else because for some reason ANet decided that they were going to give the okay to an exploit rather than either stay quiet or officially denounce it.

mauried.5608:

I really wonder whether people take MMOs too seriously.
Nothing is real, not the gold the weapons the skins nothing.
When you leave the game you cant take it with you.
Having a gazillion gold means nothing.
No one cares.

Studies have shown that the brain doesn’t differentiate dopamine responses from virtual or physical goods/achievements.

Gremix.2514:

DeWolfe.2174:

Conski Deshan.2057:

I was talking about it in an in game context, in an MMO also known as the genre for bragging rights, prestige and generally trying to outdo other players. /s

Never played a single video game for that. I’d bet most play an MMO for entertaining content and social interactions. I’d also bet most play with each other for mutually beneficial reasons. That we’d, by our nature, work together to achieve our goals. Not work against each other and not try to deny each other. We wouldn’t berate the game developers and selfishly ask for content to be made just for ourselves. Nor, even have such an attitude of being better than anyone else.

100% of the games content should be available from multiple avenues. Those avenues should include the Trading Post. Because if someone is “good”, their skills should be able to earn them more than one single item. That’s where trading items has further value.

“100% of the games content should be available from multiple avenues.”

Pay2Win detected.

It’s a freaking skin, how is that P2W? If I could buy a weapon with 1500 strength then that’s P2W. We’re talking about skins and cosmetics.

For the continued conversation of rewards, why shouldn’t a skilled player be able to earn income beyond a simple skin? Being able to sell a run IS rewarding a players skill! Having the capacity to sell multiple copies of a difficult to acquire item IS rewarding a players skill.

DeWolfe.2174:

It’s a freaking skin, how is that P2W? If I could buy a weapon with 1500 strength then that’s P2W. We’re talking about skins and cosmetics.

For the continued conversation of rewards, why shouldn’t a skilled player be able to earn income beyond a simple skin? Being able to sell a run IS rewarding a players skill! Having the capacity to sell multiple copies of a difficult to acquire item IS rewarding a players skill.

1) Because its an exploit, and many players don’t agree with using them even if ANet have decided to just abandon principles entirely.

2) Because gold is basically meaningless. That’s the point. The trib skins had value that almost no other items did because they couldn’t be bought with gold. That’s why they were prestigious. Taking that prestige away and replacing it with gold is to misunderstand what made them have value in the first place.

Substance E.4852:

There was never any “added gold”. The dungeons were always meant to be done by a party of 5. Even if one person soloed the thing and then sold the spots at the end it would still be handing out as intended amounts of rewards.

Except that gold rewards were boosted to get people back into dungeons. Then the community shifted to speed-running. So “added gold” became an unintended consequence.

I can’t wait for being able to sell a PVP match through somekind of exploit and the sheetstorm that will follow right after.

I should be able to buy PVP rewards who cares about others.





This way of thinking is awesome, it’s like he murdered someone but im okay with that because it wasn’t my relative – so who cares. Awesome.




Also virtual good have no value ? Tell that to E-sports (which should be able to cheat your way through – political correctness) and games.

Seriously people need a life. The skins only have value if people are willing to pay for it. I see nothing wrong with people paying to leech even though I have not personally leeched or offered such services.

Frediosz.2718:

I can’t wait for being able to sell a PVP match through somekind of exploit and the sheetstorm that will follow right after.

I should be able to buy PVP rewards who cares about others.

I’ve seen PVP leeches. So it’s already available. If you can buy PVP team to help you win, then more power to you.

Back on a more important note: Nunchucks could totally be a sword skin, or maybe daggers.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

I feel really sorry for everyone who gets so frustrated just because other people can get things. If you care about prestige, you have chosen wrong game, my friend.

This is true, but the tribulation skins were introduced in September 2013, and have maintained their prestige all the way up until that dev post on page one of this thread.

That set was one tiny part of the game that catered to people who wanted prestige items. It even had colour variants for casual players, so no one was missing out. Now it has been devalued to the level of everything else because for some reason ANet decided that they were going to give the okay to an exploit rather than either stay quiet or officially denounce it.

Yeah, I agree. Just as a side note, I also do care about prestige myself. What’s currently in the game is clearly an unintended behavior and should get fixed whenever it’s possible. Unfortunately, the harm is done already and not much can be done about it (besides trying to hotfix it), so people will do themselves a great favor if they just deal with it (or possibly even take advantage of it while they can).

If you care a lot about prestige, your best chance might be to convince Anet to bring back Queen’s Gauntlet (and drop in some related skins, achievements or titles). As far as I remember, this was the ONLY part of the game (except SAB trib mode as mentioned above) where no one could interfere (any form of help from party members was completely blocked) and you had to pull your weight and earn every achievement by yourself.

I usually don’t take the time to comment on these, but I was interested in giving some perspective based from someone who sells runs, rather than buys them or does them all on my own. I am in the rare spot of being between the two areas (Prestige versus exploit, in this instance) in that I legitimately earn my own items, yet give the opportunity to others. Consider this an opportunity to ask questions, give critiques, or insult if that’s what you wish — but I did want to comment on this.

It seems many people are distraught at the idea that Anet would allow this “exploit” to happen and thus devalue in game what are otherwise “prestigious” skins and items that should only be earned by people who, well, earn it. Here’s a few things to keep in mind about the whole ordeal though:

-Anet has said that things like selling raid, dungeon, LS, or most other paid runs in game to be okay in their eyes. The idea of selling SAB runs is essentially the same, the only difference being the coding that was intended to be restrictive of allowing people to be added to a group after it has begun. That is the one difference between the selling runs of other content. This is not to say it isn’t an exploit, however, there’s more to be said.

-Aside from skin color, there is nothing unique about items — not shape, not size, not stats, not agony infusion. All these items are able to be gained through other means.

-The skins are recolors of skins that are already in game. If you’re asking for prestige items, why would you think and/or want the most prestigious thing in game to be a simple recolor of an item you can get? Wouldn’t you want something more than that?

-For some people who are selling runs (as I am), this is a means of getting a decent income of gold through the game doing content we would have already done, and thus makes the reward of doing the runs feel more worthwhile. Additionally, it allows some players the ability to use skill to gain money and somewhat catch up with the rediculous prices of many items in this game (cough amalgamated gemstones cough) without A. Spending real money of their own, or B. resorting to spending ungodly and utterly rediculous time spent grinding to get skins we desire that are by far overpriced in the economy due to the some of the SAME people who pay for runs in the first place. In addition even further, the people selling runs are not creating income from nothing, and are earning gold through offering a service to other people.

I think people mistake where the problem is, quite honestly, and end up getting blinded by the fact that people can buy into prestige items that aren’t really prestige in the first place. If you’re bothered by the fact that people can spend money just to get the best items and weapons, why are people not complaining about the fact that Anet has a system that literally allows you to spend real money for in game currency? Is that not the actual problem here that ultimately causes people to have a distaste in their mouth that people can buy into items?

Here’s the thing: Don’t get me wrong, I love having the ability to earn items and I would prefer it that many worthwhile rewards were actually behind skill gates, not gold sinks and grindfests. But, for me, an orange recolor of a weapon you can otherwise get is not prestigious in my opinion, and much better could be added to the game that -is- worth the effort and skill. However, as it stands, for those items that should be considered prestigious (aka legendaries), they have become a serious chore and unfair to players who wish to earn them at a decent and fair rate due to the -same- reason that people that are upset with people who buy runs — namely being the fact that the people who pay real money for things wreck it for those who try and work really hard. In this case, the people who are selling the runs are (as far as I have seen) just finding a way to make the gold other people buy work to their advantage so the creation and acquisition of items they want becomes more viable and fair to themselves, as it should have been all along.

They should allow instead to join an existant game, like dungeons, raids, etc…

Pay and get no chest drop but only token is not worth it.

Belier.9864:

I usually don’t take the time to comment on these, but I was interested in giving some perspective based from someone who sells runs, rather than buys them or does them all on my own. I am in the rare spot of being between the two areas (Prestige versus exploit, in this instance) in that I legitimately earn my own items, yet give the opportunity to others. Consider this an opportunity to ask questions, give critiques, or insult if that’s what you wish — but I did want to comment on this.

It seems many people are distraught at the idea that Anet would allow this “exploit” to happen and thus devalue in game what are otherwise “prestigious” skins and items that should only be earned by people who, well, earn it. Here’s a few things to keep in mind about the whole ordeal though:

-Anet has said that things like selling raid, dungeon, LS, or most other paid runs in game to be okay in their eyes. The idea of selling SAB runs is essentially the same, the only difference being the coding that was intended to be restrictive of allowing people to be added to a group after it has begun. That is the one difference between the selling runs of other content. This is not to say it isn’t an exploit, however, there’s more to be said.

-Aside from skin color, there is nothing unique about items — not shape, not size, not stats, not agony infusion. All these items are able to be gained through other means.

-The skins are recolors of skins that are already in game. If you’re asking for prestige items, why would you think and/or want the most prestigious thing in game to be a simple recolor of an item you can get? Wouldn’t you want something more than that?

-For some people who are selling runs (as I am), this is a means of getting a decent income of gold through the game doing content we would have already done, and thus makes the reward of doing the runs feel more worthwhile. Additionally, it allows some players the ability to use skill to gain money and somewhat catch up with the rediculous prices of many items in this game (cough amalgamated gemstones cough) without A. Spending real money of their own, or B. resorting to spending ungodly and utterly rediculous time spent grinding to get skins we desire that are by far overpriced in the economy due to the some of the SAME people who pay for runs in the first place. In addition even further, the people selling runs are not creating income from nothing, and are earning gold through offering a service to other people.

I think people mistake where the problem is, quite honestly, and end up getting blinded by the fact that people can buy into prestige items that aren’t really prestige in the first place. If you’re bothered by the fact that people can spend money just to get the best items and weapons, why are people not complaining about the fact that Anet has a system that literally allows you to spend real money for in game currency? Is that not the actual problem here that ultimately causes people to have a distaste in their mouth that people can buy into items?

Here’s the thing: Don’t get me wrong, I love having the ability to earn items and I would prefer it that many worthwhile rewards were actually behind skill gates, not gold sinks and grindfests. But, for me, an orange recolor of a weapon you can otherwise get is not prestigious in my opinion, and much better could be added to the game that -is- worth the effort and skill. However, as it stands, for those items that should be considered prestigious (aka legendaries), they have become a serious chore and unfair to players who wish to earn them at a decent and fair rate due to the -same- reason that people that are upset with people who buy runs — namely being the fact that the people who pay real money for things wreck it for those who try and work really hard. In this case, the people who are selling the runs are (as far as I have seen) just finding a way to make the gold other people buy work to their advantage so the creation and acquisition of items they want becomes more viable and fair to themselves, as it should have been all along.

They said selling Dungeon runs is legal if you do not exploit to do so.

Many, including myself, feel that joining an SAB group at the end to get the rewards is an exploit. And therefore should be against the rules as it should be the same as selling Dungeon runs.

There would not be the backlash there is if it wasn’t an exploit to join an already started SAB instance.

Seera.5916:

They said selling Dungeon runs is legal if you do not exploit to do so.

Many, including myself, feel that joining an SAB group at the end to get the rewards is an exploit. And therefore should be against the rules as it should be the same as selling Dungeon runs.

There would not be the backlash there is if it wasn’t an exploit to join an already started SAB instance.

Many, including myself, feel that joining a group of any kind in order to recieve the benefits so long as you are willing to give payment for the service is a legitimate service of the people. Therefore, it should be allowed by the rules and should be allowed just as much for SAB as for any other run of sorts.

The same opinion works in the same logic from the other side. :P

There are backlashes about everything, and no-one is ever fully satisfied. That said though, I still think people are focusing too much on a symptom of the problem, I.E. An SAB exploit, than the real problem, currency being able to be bought with real money. Additionally, people are making -way- too big of a deal about items of which the entirety of its components can be bought on the TP and/or crafted, in addition to the fact the skins are only a literal color spectrum change and add nothing truly unique to the item.

Here’s the thing about the exploit as well: They could just as easily remove the code restrictions about joining, and it would literally be the same as any dungeon or raid run selling service to players. Ultimately, it is Anet’s decision — and honestly, I feel the fact they allow gold to legitimately be bought in game says way more about their stance and policies than temporarily allowing an exploit which isn’t really much of an exploit, considering they allow it in almost -every- other sense of the game.

Belier.9864:

-Aside from skin color, there is nothing unique about items — not shape, not size, not stats, not agony infusion. All these items are able to be gained through other means.

-The skins are recolors of skins that are already in game. If you’re asking for prestige items, why would you think and/or want the most prestigious thing in game to be a simple recolor of an item you can get? Wouldn’t you want something more than that?

No I wouldn’t. The fact that these are recolours is the reason these were great prestige items.

I have no desire to stop other players from getting cool skins, which is why it was great that everyone could get the blue and orange ones. The green and yellow skins weren’t “better” than the ones that casual players could get, they just had more prestige. Everybody won.

This was the perfect system, and ANet just killed it for no apparent reason.

Belier.9864:

Seera.5916:

They said selling Dungeon runs is legal if you do not exploit to do so.

Many, including myself, feel that joining an SAB group at the end to get the rewards is an exploit. And therefore should be against the rules as it should be the same as selling Dungeon runs.

There would not be the backlash there is if it wasn’t an exploit to join an already started SAB instance.

Many, including myself, feel that joining a group of any kind in order to recieve the benefits so long as you are willing to give payment for the service is a legitimate service of the people. Therefore, it should be allowed by the rules and should be allowed just as much for SAB as for any other run of sorts.

The same opinion works in the same logic from the other side. :P

There are backlashes about everything, and no-one is ever fully satisfied. That said though, I still think people are focusing too much on a symptom of the problem, I.E. An SAB exploit, than the real problem, currency being able to be bought with real money. Additionally, people are making -way- too big of a deal about items of which the entirety of its components can be bought on the TP and/or crafted, in addition to the fact the skins are only a literal color spectrum change and add nothing truly unique to the item.

Here’s the thing about the exploit as well: They could just as easily remove the code restrictions about joining, and it would literally be the same as any dungeon or raid run selling service to players. Ultimately, it is Anet’s decision — and honestly, I feel the fact they allow gold to legitimately be bought in game says way more about their stance and policies than temporarily allowing an exploit which isn’t really much of an exploit, considering they allow it in almost -every- other sense of the game.

The problem is, the next time there is an exploit, those caught by ANet will go “but it’s not that much of an exploit and you allowed it for SAB when that was also not that much of an exploit”.

It sets a very very very bad precedent.

And no one should be able to be allowed to benefit from an exploit. No matter how large or small. Banned for it? Not necessarily in all instances and I wouldn’t say they should be banned for this one. But they should still not be allowed to use an exploit and benefit from it.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

No I wouldn’t. The fact that these are recolours is the reason these were great prestige items.

I have no desire to stop other players from getting cool skins, which is why it was great that everyone could get the blue and orange ones. The green and yellow skins weren’t “better” than the ones that casual players could get, they just had more prestige. Everybody won.

This was the perfect system, and ANet just killed it for no apparent reason.

I honestly believe that if you think that recolors is/are your greatest choice for prestige, you need to rethink your wants for this game, because you’re low balling your expectations hard. In a game where stats are normalized and literally skins are the only thing that make a difference at end game, you should be asking for more, not less. Complaining about these particular skins instead of something larger is by far a mistake in my opinion, and we as a community (and as customers) should have higher expectations of what we pay for.

I’m going to say these things in response to this, though:

1. There is no perfect system. In your system, people are discluded for the sake of “prestige”, which could be a means of saying “look how hard I worked to get this” while at the same time being just as much “I’m better then you because I have something you can’t get”. Because of this, there is no system which can be all-inclusive and yet individualized at the same time.

2. The system is literally one small bit of code away from being the same as nearly every other system in the game in terms of what can and cannot be sold as a service by other players. Anet decides what their preferred system is, and while the players have influence, the almighty $ speaks louder than words to a business.

3. Reflect upon what you just said — you said you have no intent to stop people from getting skins, but then you explicitly stated that you want to have prestige skins that aren’t available to everyone (as so many people see the color as being equivalent to status and a unique skin in its own right). Is this not contradictory?

Seera.5916:

Belier.9864:

Seera.5916:

They said selling Dungeon runs is legal if you do not exploit to do so.

Many, including myself, feel that joining an SAB group at the end to get the rewards is an exploit. And therefore should be against the rules as it should be the same as selling Dungeon runs.

There would not be the backlash there is if it wasn’t an exploit to join an already started SAB instance.

Many, including myself, feel that joining a group of any kind in order to recieve the benefits so long as you are willing to give payment for the service is a legitimate service of the people. Therefore, it should be allowed by the rules and should be allowed just as much for SAB as for any other run of sorts.

The same opinion works in the same logic from the other side. :P

There are backlashes about everything, and no-one is ever fully satisfied. That said though, I still think people are focusing too much on a symptom of the problem, I.E. An SAB exploit, than the real problem, currency being able to be bought with real money. Additionally, people are making -way- too big of a deal about items of which the entirety of its components can be bought on the TP and/or crafted, in addition to the fact the skins are only a literal color spectrum change and add nothing truly unique to the item.

Here’s the thing about the exploit as well: They could just as easily remove the code restrictions about joining, and it would literally be the same as any dungeon or raid run selling service to players. Ultimately, it is Anet’s decision — and honestly, I feel the fact they allow gold to legitimately be bought in game says way more about their stance and policies than temporarily allowing an exploit which isn’t really much of an exploit, considering they allow it in almost -every- other sense of the game.

The problem is, the next time there is an exploit, those caught by ANet will go “but it’s not that much of an exploit and you allowed it for SAB when that was also not that much of an exploit”.

It sets a very very very bad precedent.

And no one should be able to be allowed to benefit from an exploit. No matter how large or small. Banned for it? Not necessarily in all instances and I wouldn’t say they should be banned for this one. But they should still not be allowed to use an exploit and benefit from it.

Just chiming in to say yeah, pretty much. This whole debacle is uncomfortable.

Seera.5916:

The problem is, the next time there is an exploit, those caught by ANet will go “but it’s not that much of an exploit and you allowed it for SAB when that was also not that much of an exploit”.

It sets a very very very bad precedent.

And no one should be able to be allowed to benefit from an exploit. No matter how large or small. Banned for it? Not necessarily in all instances and I wouldn’t say they should be banned for this one. But they should still not be allowed to use an exploit and benefit from it.

Methinks you’re making mountains out of molehills here. Just because an excuse is made for one thing in the game that is almost exactly like how legitimate, legal actions are already in game (I.e. Raid and dungeon selling), does not mean that it is going to end the game or break the game if they decide to allow it for the time being (and they are fixing it eventually).

Ultimately, this is an exploit caused by a bug, but bugs sometimes can create the best of things — hell, if it wasn’t for a bug in the first place, pretty sure SAB wouldn’t have existed in the first place!

But this truly does nothing to break the game. No money is created that isn’t already part of the economy, it doesn’t stop anyone from playing the game, and no-one is harmed in the process (save for people’s egos in desire to feel “special” over other people, despite the numerous, potentially countless ways you can customize your character with skins and dyes already in existence). One set of recolor skins will not break the game.

If you want to talk about things that set a bad precedence, then I would again point to the fact that you can legitimately pay real money for gold, or the fact that they are not delivering content they advertised in the expansion (I.E. Legendaries), or the fact that even after several months of the expansions, the only new content releases have been 2/3 raid wings and a rehash of barely any new content with SAB, while the game itself is in a drought of content.

Priorities matter. Focus on the big things, not the small things. This exploit does nothing to change the game except by scuffing a few people’s pride at wanting to feel special.

Belier.9864:

I honestly believe that if you think that recolors is/are your greatest choice for prestige, you need to rethink your wants for this game, because you’re low balling your expectations hard. In a game where stats are normalized and literally skins are the only thing that make a difference at end game, you should be asking for more, not less. Complaining about these particular skins instead of something larger is by far a mistake in my opinion, and we as a community (and as customers) should have higher expectations of what we pay for.

I’m going to say these things in response to this, though:

1. There is no perfect system. In your system, people are discluded for the sake of “prestige”, which could be a means of saying “look how hard I worked to get this” while at the same time being just as much “I’m better then you because I have something you can’t get”. Because of this, there is no system which can be all-inclusive and yet individualized at the same time.

2. The system is literally one small bit of code away from being the same as nearly every other system in the game in terms of what can and cannot be sold as a service by other players. Anet decides what their preferred system is, and while the players have influence, the almighty $ speaks louder than words to a business.

3. Reflect upon what you just said — you said you have no intent to stop people from getting skins, but then you explicitly stated that you want to have prestige skins that aren’t available to everyone (as so many people see the color as being equivalent to status and a unique skin in its own right). Is this not contradictory?

Your opening paragraph seems to contradict your last point. I don’t want more, nor do I want to deny anyone things. I want equivalent quality skins, but with some versions locked behind skill/effort. That way everyone gets the same quality/type of skin, but there is still room for prestige. This is what SAB offered, and I stand by it being the perfect system.

I don’t think having yellow or green skins made someone “better”, it just gave people goals, and a reward to be proud of. Lots of people could run a marathon, but that doesn’t mean that the people who actually do it shouldn’t be proud. Nor does it mean that they should get a certificate or something for their effort.

The SAB trib skins offered a type of value other than gold. That was something the game is sorely lacking. It has now gone, and I think that is a bad thing.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Your opening paragraph seems to contradict your last point. I don’t want more, nor do I want to deny anyone things. I want equivalent quality skins, but with some versions locked behind skill/effort. That way everyone gets the same quality/type of skin, but there is still room for prestige. This is what SAB offered, and I stand by it being the perfect system.

I don’t think having yellow or green skins made someone “better”, it just gave people goals, and a reward to be proud of. Lots of people could run a marathon, but that doesn’t mean that the people who actually do it shouldn’t be proud. Nor does it mean that they should get a certificate or something for their effort.

The SAB trib skins offered a type of value other than gold. That was something the game is sorely lacking. It has now gone, and I think that is a bad thing.

My opening paragraph and last point are not contradictory, I am merely asking a question based upon what the people in this thread seem to imply, which is that the recolor has (or should have) more value than a different color of the same weapon. I do not believe that the skins are unique nor special in any way simply because of a color swap, as many people here seem to imply.

Here’s the other thing: I’m not in disagreement about some things being locked behind skill, and requiring effort to get them over just buying them — in fact, that’s honestly my preference. I’m one of the people who did Light Up The Darkness of Liadri when it first game out, so I really do enjoy doing things that take challenge. :P But that being said, if you’re going to ask for something to be unique and skill based, I believe you should be asking for more than a recolor for your basis of what you want.

But I digress, whether or not we believe that things should be locked behind skill is somewhat aside from the point I’m trying to make. The ultimate point I’m trying to make is that people are basically making too much of a fuss about something that ultimately does not, and will not, ever matter. The people complaining about this are too focused on the small, minute problems of this game in their desire to feel special versus the problems the game and Anet have that are actually broad and detrimental to the game. Again, as I mentioned in a previous post, priorities matter. This harms nothing but people’s pride and desire to feel like they stand out over others, which is a superiority problem in its own regard as much as it is a desire to feel rewarded for the work you put in.

Edit: Another point I just thought of, but doesn’t having the skin and knowing you did the work offer value? Shouldn’t that matter more than having something other people don’t? I thought the point was the journey, not the result, but maybe that’s just me. I have Twilight myself and I did the work to get it without spending a dime of real money to get it — that has more value to me than the actual weapon skin does.

Belier.9864:

Seera.5916:

The problem is, the next time there is an exploit, those caught by ANet will go “but it’s not that much of an exploit and you allowed it for SAB when that was also not that much of an exploit”.

It sets a very very very bad precedent.

And no one should be able to be allowed to benefit from an exploit. No matter how large or small. Banned for it? Not necessarily in all instances and I wouldn’t say they should be banned for this one. But they should still not be allowed to use an exploit and benefit from it.

Methinks you’re making mountains out of molehills here. Just because an excuse is made for one thing in the game that is almost exactly like how legitimate, legal actions are already in game (I.e. Raid and dungeon selling), does not mean that it is going to end the game or break the game if they decide to allow it for the time being (and they are fixing it eventually).

Ultimately, this is an exploit caused by a bug, but bugs sometimes can create the best of things — hell, if it wasn’t for a bug in the first place, pretty sure SAB wouldn’t have existed in the first place!

But this truly does nothing to break the game. No money is created that isn’t already part of the economy, it doesn’t stop anyone from playing the game, and no-one is harmed in the process (save for people’s egos in desire to feel “special” over other people, despite the numerous, potentially countless ways you can customize your character with skins and dyes already in existence). One set of recolor skins will not break the game.

If you want to talk about things that set a bad precedence, then I would again point to the fact that you can legitimately pay real money for gold, or the fact that they are not delivering content they advertised in the expansion (I.E. Legendaries), or the fact that even after several months of the expansions, the only new content releases have been 2/3 raid wings and a rehash of barely any new content with SAB, while the game itself is in a drought of content.

Priorities matter. Focus on the big things, not the small things. This exploit does nothing to change the game except by scuffing a few people’s pride at wanting to feel special.

You seem to be missing the reason why I disagree with ANet’s call on this.

I believe that no one should benefit from an exploit. No matter how big or small that exploit is. No matter how much impacts or does not impact the game. No one should benefit from an exploit.

I would not have a problem with people buying SAB tribulation mode runs if they did not have to use exploits to do so. I have no issue with players deciding what the market price of the tribulation exclusive rewards are.

And yea, I’m not at all happy with their decision on legendaries. But that’s not the topic of this thread nor does it have any bearing on my opinion of exploits and who should or should not benefit from them, so I didn’t bring it up.

Chris Cleary.8017:

It does trivialize the skins some

Guessing some means a lot

Belier.9864:

Seera.5916:

The problem is, the next time there is an exploit, those caught by ANet will go “but it’s not that much of an exploit and you allowed it for SAB when that was also not that much of an exploit”.

It sets a very very very bad precedent.

And no one should be able to be allowed to benefit from an exploit. No matter how large or small. Banned for it? Not necessarily in all instances and I wouldn’t say they should be banned for this one. But they should still not be allowed to use an exploit and benefit from it.

Methinks you’re making mountains out of molehills here. Just because an excuse is made for one thing in the game that is almost exactly like how legitimate, legal actions are already in game (I.e. Raid and dungeon selling), does not mean that it is going to end the game or break the game if they decide to allow it for the time being (and they are fixing it eventually).

Ultimately, this is an exploit caused by a bug, but bugs sometimes can create the best of things — hell, if it wasn’t for a bug in the first place, pretty sure SAB wouldn’t have existed in the first place!

But this truly does nothing to break the game. No money is created that isn’t already part of the economy, it doesn’t stop anyone from playing the game, and no-one is harmed in the process (save for people’s egos in desire to feel “special” over other people, despite the numerous, potentially countless ways you can customize your character with skins and dyes already in existence). One set of recolor skins will not break the game.

If you want to talk about things that set a bad precedence, then I would again point to the fact that you can legitimately pay real money for gold, or the fact that they are not delivering content they advertised in the expansion (I.E. Legendaries), or the fact that even after several months of the expansions, the only new content releases have been 2/3 raid wings and a rehash of barely any new content with SAB, while the game itself is in a drought of content.

Priorities matter. Focus on the big things, not the small things. This exploit does nothing to change the game except by scuffing a few people’s pride at wanting to feel special.

Back when the game was released, we complained a lot about the gem to gold conversion system and I still think it’s one of the worst things in the game.

Oh look a living fantasy world with legendary guilds, magical items to be wielded by chosen ones, exciting treasures hidden in the darkest depths only waiting to be uncovered by those brave enough to venture forth…… oh no wait it’s a virtual market place better grind this gold spot for your next reward. (before anyone claims exaggeration this was the spot I was literally in prior to HOT and it was a nightmare and un-fun).

Anyway you say the recolour isn’t enough and you’d expect better from a prestige item? I’d agree, but if we ever want to move forward with that we need to stop taking steps back and that means complaining about every and any prestige or even rare item for that matter that gets its value wrecked because people can’t be bothered to play the game themselves and are literally paying others to play for them.

And lastly the exploit is more mountain than molehill, well more Anet’s response, It shows a greater problem the motivation to act should have been that it was an exploit full stop, the fact it doesn’t effect the economy directly shouldn’t matter.
Would it be inconvenient to have to punish that many players? Yes but the idea of rule is that it’s enforced even when inconvenient to do so.