Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

MRA.4758:

Oh, really? Didn’t knew that. Well, then let’s see what we free updates got for our full box price in GW1 when compared to GW2:

GW1 Prophecies:

• Sorrow’s Furnace
• Tomb of the Primeval Kings revamp
• Helloween quests
• Wintersday quests
• constant balancing updates

GW2 (blatantly copied from the wiki):

• Mad King’s Labyrinth zone,
• Reaper’s Rumble and Lunatic Inquisition activities,
• Mad King’s Clock Tower jumping puzzle
• Ascent to Madness dungeon
  ….

Yeah, now I see what you mean.

Serious question: Is there really someone here who bought the game back in Summer 2012 and honestly assumed that we would receive that amount of constant updates and support for the price of a single boxed copy?

~MRA

i would have prefered to pay for expansions if it had gw1 amount of content.
I would spend more in the gem store just to support anet if i liked the stuff coming out.

i dont feel the vitriol that some people feel, but honestly, while i do think the dev teams have been working hard, and spent some big time on some things, it hasnt been that effective at making the game feel deeper or more expansive. Die hard gw1 anet fans i know that were at pax multiple years at all the anet events, dont even plan to go to the booth this year.

I cant say everyone is unsatisfied, i dont think everyone is. But even some people who really liked this game barely log on. I dont think the content that has been released is the content people really wanted to see. They basically wanted new game modes, more skills, new full maps, new stories (which they have done a bit of) new explorations, refined systems, expansions of systems.

You just got to step back and really look, and what they have put out doesnt renew the game experience. Thats ultimately what every MMO has to do to survive, as much as Qol stuff is nice, it doesnt make the game feel new and exciting.

Where is the new and exciting game patch? you guys are gamers, you remember staying up all night for that new content to hit, and explore and find and get all these new things thats what ya got to recapture in order to keep a lot of people engaged

You’re assuming no one was/is excited about Drytop, no one is excited about the living story. I’m pretty sure Anet has metrics that show otherwise.

Some people just like jumping and it provides a lot of that too.

I’d like to say personally that dry top is now my favorite hangout spot. The oasis is Gorgeous and you get free loot for a little bit of jumping.

As of right now, with the way they handled the scarlet fiasco, the way they entwined the Mordrem tendrils along the leyline she disrupted, and they general changing state of the world, is very pleasing to me. I go on little strolls through the world to see how the content has changed since last patch.

I don’t think discussing the pro’s and cons of temporary content will lead anywhere.
Anet already saw that we don’t want too much temporary content and that it makes you feel like you missed out if you weren’t there.

Again going back to a rollercoaster comparisson.
If it had a ride last year available for a month and I go to the park today and it’s no longer there I would no longer use it to describe the current themepark.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Temporary content is…..wait for it…. content.

They keyword you’re ignoring is in fact “content.” If it wasn’t content it wouldn’t be called “content.” Temporary or otherwise. Temporary simply describes the type of content it is. Ie – limited time. We also have recurring content. It’s still content, it just only returns during set periods – like Halloween or Wintersday. Then you have permanent content which is “always on” so to speak.

It’s all content. Stop saying it isn’t, just because it’s not your preferred type of content.

While it exists yes it is content. When it ceases to be contained within the container (the game in this instance) it no longer qualifies as the contents of that container.

Its a matter of verb tense. Is vs was. Something that is accessible within the live game is content. Something that is not accessible within the game is not, though if it was previously accessible then at that time it was content.

This has nothing to do with whether or not the content in question is my preferred type of content. Some of the content that has been removed was among my favorite. The fact that I liked it doesn’t change that it is no longer contained within the game.

Geez… there are a few things I’m not happy with in the game, but this thread is a fine sample of playerbase toxicity lol… saying they haven’t done anything is unfair as kitten.

Valento.9852:

Geez… there are a few things I’m not happy with in the game, but this thread is a fine sample of playerbase toxicity lol… saying they haven’t done anything is unfair as kitten.

Exactly. It is one thing to have strong opinions and disagreements about the way some things have been done in the game, I’ve expressed mine own a few times, but it is something else to try to inaccurately re-write history.

ipan.4356:

ipan.4356:

Nobody cares about feature packs. They want more content.

Hello! Nice to meet you. My name is Nobody and, yes, I do care about feature packs.More content would be nice as well, but a refactoring update is always good.

I’m willing to say there are lots of people named Nobody. Feature packs and quality of life improvements are very important to any MMO.

The memories of some of the posters in this thread are rather shoddy. I’d like to see anyone go back and play any mature MMO in the state it was back at launch (excluding bugs), and then say that feature improvements are not important.

Ashen.2907:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Temporary content is…..wait for it…. content.

They keyword you’re ignoring is in fact “content.” If it wasn’t content it wouldn’t be called “content.” Temporary or otherwise. Temporary simply describes the type of content it is. Ie – limited time. We also have recurring content. It’s still content, it just only returns during set periods – like Halloween or Wintersday. Then you have permanent content which is “always on” so to speak.

It’s all content. Stop saying it isn’t, just because it’s not your preferred type of content.

While it exists yes it is content. When it ceases to be contained within the container (the game in this instance) it no longer qualifies as the contents of that container.

Its a matter of verb tense. Is vs was. Something that is accessible within the live game is content. Something that is not accessible within the game is not, though if it was previously accessible then at that time it was content.

This has nothing to do with whether or not the content in question is my preferred type of content. Some of the content that has been removed was among my favorite. The fact that I liked it doesn’t change that it is no longer contained within the game.

It is still content, it’s just not accessible. Unless they actually delete the assets, it still exists.

But for arguments sake, we’ll just go with your thought line – that it’s only content while it is in the game and accessible. This still refutes the claims that Anet has not released or worked on “any content.” People ignore “temporary content” simply because it is not their cup of tea. Doesn’t magically make it “not content” though.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

But for arguments sake, we’ll just go with your thought line – that it’s only content while it is in the game and accessible. This still refutes the claims that Anet has not released or worked on “any content.” People ignore “temporary content” simply because it is not their cup of tea. Doesn’t magically make it “not content” though.

Well, Super Adventure Box was sort of my cup of tea. Unfortunately I can’t actually get more of it until the manufacturer decides to release it again sometime before Hell freezes over. I mean, I know it will happen . . . eventually. But I really would like it to be more than “whenever it’s there”.

Now, don’t get me wrong – I agree with the sentiment of “temporary content is still content”. But I can see the point people are laboriously and unsteadily trying to make. How can we call it content if it cannot be experienced either anymore or at this current time? It’s not the same as a permanent addition to the menu, it’s something which comes and goes away.

It’s hand in hand with my gripe over Pokemon – sooooo many things in the games which are either special promotion or only released regionally and are tracked for completion. At least we don’t have that issue with GW2. (Yet.)

Darmikau.9413:

A long list of selection bias

Please look up “selection bias” in a textbook to learn what it actually means. I am not John Smith, so I won’t give lectures in my spare time.

BTW, I did not “select” this list, I just copy-pasted it from the wiki. The only “selective” aspect is that I actually stripped a number of bullet points from it when I considered them to be negligible or redundant.

Darmikau.9413:

You do realize how many features you described are different parts of the same update and how many weren’t content updates but changes to the game itself?

Motivated by your comment I did a tally. Of the 73 bullet point in the given list 51 are clearly content, while 22 could maybe considered to be “just game changes”. (Although I was under the impression that new mechanics like new skills and traits, or systems like wardrobe or solo queue have already been named many times as expansion-type content in these forums.) And yes, I did of course list the features individually, since they they were different pieces of content.

Darmikau.9413:

A trait system rework is content, but the reworking of the attribute system in GW1 isn’t?

Please correct me if my memory is incomplete, but by “reworking of the attribute system in GW1” you are referring to the “you do no longer need refund points to respec attributes, everything else stays the same” update? Then calling this a “rework” would be just as ridiculous as introducing colored commander icons and calling that a “rework of the commander system”.

You are correct if you assume that I wrote the GW1 list just from memory (because the updates in the old GW1 wiki were just too inconvenient to skip through). In doing so, I forgot a number of features like

• the post-campaign titans quest,
• observer mode, or
• the Great Temple of Balthazar

which were also available for free. You are welcome to add more items for the GW1 list if you remember further items I forgot. However, my claim remains that you will have a pretty hard time to come up with list which is just as impressive as the GW2 list.

BTW, while skimming through the GW1 updates I just remembered the following: GW1 had temporary content! (shocked gasps in the audience, a woman in the first row faints) In March 2006 the Luxons and Kurzicks had temporary camps in Nebo Terrace. I remember that I wanted to play their quests, but since I had no time that week(end), they were already gone when I checked out the location. How dare you, GW1, how dare you!

Darmikau.9413:

It’s nice that you can thoroughly pick out some temporary content and non-content to pad a list, but how many races, professions, skills, explorables, weapons, guild halls, and PvP modes has GW2 added compared to GW1?

Oh, right, I forgot, how many races, professions, skills, explorables, weapons, guild halls, and PvP modes had GW1 Prophecies added as free content? Let me think … correct me if I am wrong, but it was: None, none, zero, one (Sorrows Furnace), nada, nope, and none that I am aware of, right? (Yes, I am deliberately not counting stuff from Factions or later, since that would be free content of a different full-price purchase.)

Nostalgia is great, but please at least try to stay objective.

phys.7689:

i would have prefered to pay for expansions if it had gw1 amount of content.
I would spend more in the gem store just to support anet if i liked the stuff coming out.

That’s a fair stance, but it is not a deal Anet offers.

~MRA

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

But for arguments sake, we’ll just go with your thought line – that it’s only content while it is in the game and accessible. This still refutes the claims that Anet has not released or worked on “any content.” People ignore “temporary content” simply because it is not their cup of tea. Doesn’t magically make it “not content” though.

Well, Super Adventure Box was sort of my cup of tea. Unfortunately I can’t actually get more of it until the manufacturer decides to release it again sometime before Hell freezes over. I mean, I know it will happen . . . eventually. But I really would like it to be more than “whenever it’s there”.

Now, don’t get me wrong – I agree with the sentiment of “temporary content is still content”. But I can see the point people are laboriously and unsteadily trying to make. How can we call it content if it cannot be experienced either anymore or at this current time? It’s not the same as a permanent addition to the menu, it’s something which comes and goes away.

It’s hand in hand with my gripe over Pokemon – sooooo many things in the games which are either special promotion or only released regionally and are tracked for completion. At least we don’t have that issue with GW2. (Yet.)

I understand what some of the other people are trying to say. I understand the gripe of wanting to do something, to desire to work on something, but not having it available as you desire it to be. I get it, I do.

I’ve had this conversation before, specifically as it pertained to the LS at the time of the discussion. People argue that because it’s temporary, it’s not content. So I ask, when something is permanent, but nobody is playing it anymore because they’ve moved on (hello south sun, hello empty maps, just to name a couple), is it still content? Oh yes, sure, you could go back to it, but you don’t. So, by the logic being set forth, isn’t this also no longer content? Its now just a waste of space and assets.

We’ve seen this in other games – dead areas, zones and dungeons no one gives a kitten about. It’s called stagnation.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We’ve seen this in other games – dead areas, zones and dungeons no one gives a kitten about. It’s called stagnation.

We even saw it in the previous game to this one

Don’t need to tell me about the stagnation of empty zones though. You’re talking to a proud East Karana silk farmer

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

This still refutes the claims that Anet has not released or worked on “any content.” People ignore “temporary content” simply because it is not their cup of tea. Doesn’t magically make it “not content” though.

I have never agreed with those who claim that Anet has not released or worked on, “any content.” Anyone making such a claim is either ignorant (using the word in its technical sense not as a pejorative) of the facts or dishonest. Whether or not Anet has worked on content is not a matter of opinion. It is not subjective. It is a verifiable, demonstrable, fact that they have done so.

I do prefer permanent content because I like to be able to go back at a later point when the mood strikes me, “you know I haven’t played X in quite some time, sounds like fun !” For me every play session in an MMO starts with the question, “what do I feel like playing today.” Its a bummer when the answer to that question is, “something that doesn’t exist in game anymore.” (Obvioulsy I don’t expect seasonal events to be permanent).

The direction of the LS, toward permanent content, has addressed my primary concern about this method of content delivery. I love the concept of the living story. I think it is a brilliant idea and have high hopes for it as the devs continue to evolve the concept.. If season two is superior (according to most feedback that I’ve seen) to season one then season three might be even better still.

Distaste.4801:

Temporary content is not content

That’s funny, I am pretty sure it is … I played it for hours and hours, I enjoyed it, I shared the experience with friends and guildies, I had a great time, I moved on once it was done, and I have many fond and dear memories of it.

So what are you telling me? That all this is a lie, that I did not actually played it? That I did not have had my share of fun, that my dear memories are fake? That I am living in the Matrix, or that I am a replicant? Are you telling me that I don’t know what a tortoise is? Are you asking questions about my mother? Let me tell you about my mother …

~MRA

MRA.4758:

Distaste.4801:

Temporary content is not content

That’s funny, I am pretty sure it is … I played it for hours and hours, I enjoyed it, I shared the experience with friends and guildies, I had a great time, I moved on once it was done, and I have many fond and dear memories of it.

So what are you telling me? That all this is a lie, that I did not actually played it? That I did not have had my share of fun, that my dear memories are fake? That I am living in the Matrix, or that I am a replicant? Are you telling me that I don’t know what a tortoise is? Are you asking questions about my mother? Let me tell you about my mother …

~MRA

The cake is a lie!

pdavis.8031:

MRA.4758:

Distaste.4801:

Temporary content is not content

That’s funny, I am pretty sure it is … I played it for hours and hours, I enjoyed it, I shared the experience with friends and guildies, I had a great time, I moved on once it was done, and I have many fond and dear memories of it.

So what are you telling me? That all this is a lie, that I did not actually played it? That I did not have had my share of fun, that my dear memories are fake? That I am living in the Matrix, or that I am a replicant? Are you telling me that I don’t know what a tortoise is? Are you asking questions about my mother? Let me tell you about my mother …

~MRA

The cake is a lie!

/looks @ Birthday Blaster

pdavis.8031:

The cake is a lie!

It is not, it is delicious and moist.

Funny thing, to some degree the previous feature pack was also a bunch of more or less fixes rather than features. And this one, so far, yes, pure Fix Pack. Not a single meaningful feature so far, all are fixes to, at best, recently introduced systems/features like megaserver, or just to the core ones, like to pvp and party system, 2 years later, better than never, gee thanks.

Still it’s frustrating how they scramble for every tiny little bit of anything they do, for every crumb, to present it with galore, FEATURE kittening pack. BIG kittening CHANGES coming to commander SYSTEM. Now they’re 4 different colours and all this half kittening kitten d so called system is accound bound now instead of character. Wow, i’am overkitteningwhelmed, can’t help but to wonder, what’s coming in 2 more years.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

ipan.4356:

2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.

I think you are mistaken. We have released content and features in the last two years on a fairly regular basis. Just because the content and/or features were things that you personally did not particularly care for doesn’t mean we didn’t release anything.

Please don’t trivialize the efforts of our design and development staff down to “nothing” because you didn’t like it. It’s fine to comment that you didn’t care for what was released, but don’t pretend like we’ve done nothing here for the past two years.

Not to sound rude Mark, and I don’t think anyone is triviliazing anything, but most of the content you’ve released in the past two years is not longer even in the game, thanks entirely in part to Season 1’s ridiculous temporary nature.

Clearly you’re fixing that with Season 2, and I applaud your design team for realizing just how horrid the idea of temporary content was in an MMO, but that doesn’t change the fact that over the past year’s worth of updates from Season 1, a very, very small percentage of has actually remained as permanent content.

So while it is true that you’ve released regular updates over the past year to GW2, it’s also true that the majority of those updates are no longer in the game in any way, shape, or form. And that simply isn’t good design.

But again, Anet has proven capable of realizing from their mistakes, and rectifying them with Season 2, so you are on the right direction, but you can’t fault people for being upset at the overall lack of permanent content they’ve gotten to the game up until now.

Blade Syphon.4325:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

ipan.4356:

2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.

I think you are mistaken. We have released content and features in the last two years on a fairly regular basis. Just because the content and/or features were things that you personally did not particularly care for doesn’t mean we didn’t release anything.

Please don’t trivialize the efforts of our design and development staff down to “nothing” because you didn’t like it. It’s fine to comment that you didn’t care for what was released, but don’t pretend like we’ve done nothing here for the past two years.

Not to sound rude Mark, and I don’t think anyone is triviliazing anything, but most of the content you’ve released in the past two years is not longer even in the game, thanks entirely in part to Season 1’s ridiculous temporary nature.

Clearly you’re fixing that with Season 2, and I applaud your design team for realizing just how horrid the idea of temporary content was in an MMO, but that doesn’t change the fact that over the past year’s worth of updates from Season 1, a very, very small percentage of has actually remained as permanent content.

So while it is true that you’ve released regular updates over the past year to GW2, it’s also true that the majority of those updates are no longer in the game in any way, shape, or form. And that simply isn’t good design.

But again, Anet has proven capable of realizing from their mistakes, and rectifying them with Season 2, so you are on the right direction, but you can’t fault people for being upset at the overall lack of permanent content they’ve gotten to the game up until now.

This. In fact after 2 years of development everything that is left is a very small map (Dry Top) and a reworked map (Lion’s Arch) that presumably will be back to it’s original version some time soon. Other then that this game shows a REALLLY small amount of development.

Godzzila.3752:

This. In fact after 2 years of development everything that is left is a very small map (Dry Top) and a reworked map (Lion’s Arch) that presumably will be back to it’s original version some time soon. Other then that this game shows a REALLLY small amount of development.

MRA.4758:

GW2 (blatantly copied from the wiki):

• Costume Brawl activity
• Modus Sceleris events, Skritt Burglar events, and dozens more
• Tribulation Caverns, Hexfoundry Unhinged, Hidden Garden and Coddler’s Cove jumping puzzles
• Forsaken Halls and Vexa’s Lab mini-dungeons and many new exploration achievements
• Southsun Cove map, including many new events and Under New Management and Skipping Stones jumping puzzles
• Fractals of the Mists dungeon consisting of several fractals, explorable chunks of reality from the Mists based on past events in Tyria’s history
• Temple of the Silent Storm map in structured PvP
• Breakout events in WvW
• Laurel currency
• Ascended gear
• Guesting
• Guild missions, along with new currencies Guild Merits and Guild Commendations
• Spirit Watch map in structured PvP
• World Experience
• Removal of culling
• Custom Arenas and Spectator Mode in structured PvP
• Crab Toss activity
• Stealth Disruptor and Supply Removal Traps in WvW
• Island Control meta event and Karka Queen boss fight
• Angvar’s Trove guild puzzle
• Dragon Bash festival with the Dragon Ball and permanent Moa Racing activities
• Not So Secret jumping puzzle
• Torment condition
• Achievement rewards
• Skyhammer map in structured PvP
• Wallet to hold all account currencie
• Champion and daily dungeon rewards
• Daily activity rotation
• Solo arena queue in structured PvP
• Magic Find account wide, Luck
• Weaponsmith, Artificer and Huntsman crafting disciplines can progress until level 500
• Defeat Tequatl the Sunless event is completely redesigned
• Ruins of Power added to the Borderlands in WvW
• Looking For Group tool added to the Contacts panel
• One of the paths in explorable Twilight Arbor is replaced by the new Aetherpath
• Antitoxin Spray healing skill available for all professions
• New fractals: Thaumanova Reactor, Molten Furnace, Aetherblade, Captain Mai Trin Boss and Molten Boss
• Mistlock Instability in higher levels of Fractals of the Mists
• Armorsmith, Leatherworker and Tailor crafting disciplines can progress until level 500 to craft ascended armor
• New healing skills for every profession
• Triple Trouble meta event, Evolved Jungle Wurm world boss to kick your kitten!
• Edge of the Mists map in WvW
• Trait system redesign, 40 new traits
• Ferocity attribute for increasing critical damage, rune and sigil effects updated
• Account-wide dye unlocks and wardrobe for armor and weapon skins
• Account-bound world experience, legendary and ascended equipment
• PvP reward tracks, PvP Locker merging with the wardrobe
• Megaserver system
• Story Journal for living world storylines
• Tangle Root meta event in Brisban Wildlands
• Dry Top, Sandstorm meta event, and dozens new events
• Ambrite weapons
• Mysterious Vine back item, Cultivated Vine, and Mawdrey + Mawdrey II scavenger hunt
• infrequent balancing updates

Yeap, small amount of development!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We’ve seen this in other games – dead areas, zones and dungeons no one gives a kitten about. It’s called stagnation.

And stagnation is exactly what we have right now.

Flytrap.8075:

And stagnation is exactly what we have right now.

Wow. I mean… wow.

Do you just put your hands on your keyboard, close your eyes, and post whatever you type next?

How is the enormous list of updates, changes and developments which has been posted several times in this thread even remotely like stagnation?

Tell us what YOU want to see. Let’s see what ideas you have.

Honest Question as I am a little confused. Are New Races / New Classes considered a feature or content?

GuzziHero.2467:

Wow. I mean… wow.

Do you just put your hands on your keyboard, close your eyes, and post whatever you type next?

How is the enormous list of updates, changes and developments which has been posted several times in this thread even remotely like stagnation?

Tell us what YOU want to see. Let’s see what ideas you have.

I could say the same to you.

It’s clear that your primary game-modes aren’t sPvP and WvW. I’ll just leave it at that.

KOPPER.1458:

Honest Question as I am a little confused. Are New Races / New Classes considered a feature or content?

That’s content.

Alright honestly, people need to grow up and not talk to developers in such a tone. There has been a ton of content that has been released and they continue to give us more and more every few weeks at no cost.

This is one of the best games ever made and will continue to be for a very long time, so stop being ungrateful and appreciate the changes they are making.

Flytrap.8075:

I could say the same to you.

It’s clear that your primary game-modes aren’t sPvP and WvW. I’ll just leave it at that.

You got me on that, I only PvE.

But my question stands – what ideas do you have?

Distaste.4801:

Vayne.8563:

Temporary content is still content. In most MMOs, a dungeon or raid only lasts until the new ones come out. The world and the dungeons become ghost towns. Temporary content just took it away before that happened.

If the content was bad, why do you want it back? Maybe some of it was good.

It’s like saying I didn’t see a broadway show because it’s no longer there.

Temporary content is not content, it is temporary content. I guess I’ll go play SAB or Mad Kings Lair…OH WAIT I can’t because it’s not there, if it was content I could play it. A broadway show is entertainment and cannot last forever due to budgets and other issues. Content in games though are things to do and temporary content are things to do that last a short period of time. Unlike your broadway show, once things are created in a game they are always there and require no extra money to continue to be in game.

You mention new raids and dungeons, but have you played other MMO’s before? In most MMO’s when new dungeons/raids are released they become a rung in a ladder that you need to climb to get to the next raid/dungeon. Even in vanilla WoW when Naxx was released people were still doing the dungeons that were in at release. If we are going to use ghost towns as the reason for temporary content then we need to apply it to tons of things in game. Any WvW map with outnumbered? GONE. Any zones that are ghost towns? GONE! Dynamic event’s that don’t get done? Gone! What’s our threshold for “ghosttown” here? Because set it low enough of the overall popular and we have Dungeons? Gone! Fractals? Gone! SPvP? Gone! Sounds like a nice plan that will keep the game healthy!

Seasonal stuff is fine but when 3/4 of your developed content is temporary the game ends up with very little to do. GW2 wasn’t in a great state content wise when it launched and the temporary content has not helped that at all. There is still very little to do once reaching 80 and that’s the problem. This feature patch so far has added nothing that will add depth to the content we already have.

Content doesn’t have to mean always available. It just means content. The word you’re looking for is available content.

If that content had never come out, I wouldn’t be able to remember playing it. It’s definitely not current content, but it definitely is something that took programming time.

So many people are saying the team is lazy and did nothing and that’s why there’s not that many changes, as compared to most MMOs.

The fact is, the content that was here is no longer here. Yes, there’s not huge amount of more content since launch still in the game. But that doesn’t mean that the team has been doing nothing, which is part of this conversation.

Frankly I think temporary content was a mistake. I think there should have been a way to leave it in the game. And some of it may return to the game at some point in one form or another. But because so many are trivializing what the devs have done, it should be pointed out that some of those experiences were a lot of fun for a lot of people, even if you can’t do them now.

You know last year, I had an awesome experience in WvW. That same exact experience isn’t here now (and it’s unlikely to ever happen again) but I still experienced it. I also went to Disneyworld and remember it fondly, but I’ll probably never go again.

My memory if that time is real. Therefore that time is real. I don’t have to go to Disneyworld every day to know that I’ve been there.

ZilentNight.5089:

This is one of the best games ever made and will continue to be for a very long time, so stop being ungrateful and appreciate the changes they are making.

I like this game, I really do, but it’s not “one of the best games ever made”. It’s probably hard to call it one of the best games released in the last three years.

It’s probably one of the best MMOs in the most recent crop (within the last three years), mostly by virtue of having a broad user pool to keep things moving.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ZilentNight.5089:

This is one of the best games ever made and will continue to be for a very long time, so stop being ungrateful and appreciate the changes they are making.

I like this game, I really do, but it’s not “one of the best games ever made”. It’s probably hard to call it one of the best games released in the last three years.

It’s probably one of the best MMOs in the most recent crop (within the last three years), mostly by virtue of having a broad user pool to keep things moving.

While I agree with you, I think this game is good with the potential to be great, whether it’s the best game ever made is a matter of opinion. To people who enjoy it more than any other game ever made, it’s the best game ever made to them.

I’m pretty sure the poster was rendering his opinion rather than some sort of objective truth. Which also could have been more clear.

I don’t think there will ever be an objective best game ever made.

Flytrap.8075:

And stagnation is exactly what we have right now.

Seriously….it was pointed out much earlier in this thread that simply because you don’t care to participate in content that was added does not mean nothing was added.

The only stagnation in this game is that you are stagnated doing whatever content you like to do repeatedly. This is your choice.

Personally, much of the content added has not appealed to me. I do not participate in it. Fractals, EotM, Drytop, etc. The content I would like to see added has not been nor has it been mentioned. That does not mean the game is stagnant, it simply means I limit myself to the things I find enjoyable.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Most of the items you listed off that aren’t in this update are because they are content. This is not a content update, this is a feature pack. Content updates usually, but not exclusively, take the forum of living world updates or festivals.

thats the problem , not everything has to be in living story (i kno u said not everything but it really is everything except holiday events)

The two GOOD points IMO. 1.) Game content regardless if is temporary or permanent IS still content. Have respect for the developers who work on them and don’t throw them to garbage just because it came and left. 2.) LS CONTENT should be permanent because it helps to grow the game in replay value and some people have a life outside of GW2 and that takes priority over GW2. Having said that GW2 being a great development team learn from their mistake and will be making LS1 permanent and have shown moving forward they will be keeping the content of the living story (permanent).

I think Anet did pushed out decent amount of content.

Problem is "a fair amount of " people just arn’t interested in those content.

Flytrap.8075:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

ipan.4356:

2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.

I think you are mistaken. We have released content and features in the last two years on a fairly regular basis. Just because the content and/or features were things that you personally did not particularly care for doesn’t mean we didn’t release anything.

Please don’t trivialize the efforts of our design and development staff down to “nothing” because you didn’t like it. It’s fine to comment that you didn’t care for what was released, but don’t pretend like we’ve done nothing here for the past two years.

Looks at WvW

Looks at sPvP

Looks at precursor crafting

Looks at official GvG game-mode

Looks at guild capes and guild halls

Looks at new zones and dungeons

Looks at new weapon, utility, and elite skills

Looks at slow and almost non-existent balance updates

Ok Mark.

You forgot this:

_Looks at flying pig mounts that one hit everything in sight with flame breath

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Flytrap.8075:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tada, and we see yet again just why the devs won’t (can’t) talk to us.

Good job guys! Keep it up!

Someone has to counterbalance the white knights.

A term to inaccurately describe those that don’t agree with you, nothing more. Gotta love the way people label others ….

You mean like how people who praise everything Anet does call people that disagree with them “haters” & “QQers”? Ok.

Nobody cares about feature packs. They want more content.

I’d rather have Features than LS.

They didn’t, they promised a living world.

Gonna have to call BS on this one, hard. From even before launch they talked about content in terms of “expansions” a term loaded with history. People knew what that was. They only started getting married to the LS months after it first got a label. Around F&F. (which they ridiculously called “an expansion’s worth of content”) & that article that was linked said " Our goal is to make it so you get more from Gw2 for free than you get from a game you pay a subscription for." It’s certainly released more FREE content than most MMOs, that’s great. But the lie that White Knights keep propagating that it’s even close to a full expansion is laughable. Even if you compare it to GW1 which wasn’t even a full MMO, the amount of content & major features is about 1/3-1/2. Just from Prophecies to Factions the # of in-game weapons skins more than doubled. & that doesn’t include Sorrow’s Furnace. Stop perpetuating the bogus.

wwwes.1398:

In fact, I think they have said all along they don’t really want to add more races or classes, so if that comes along, it’s just a nicety.

BS again. They’ve said multiple times they were well into making the Tengu, they were supposed to be there at launch, but they ran out of time. It being a “nicety” is ridiculous. You don’t make an entire race with a full leveling progression & story as a “nicety”. You’re trying to play down things to make them sound benevolent.

I love GW2. I can admit have major, major issues with it. far more than I had with GW1. But it is true that the Feature Packs feel way more anemic than the LS, yet the hype is greater. For many of us who want traditional amounts of Expansion-like content, we’d rather pay for it than rave about how great it is that the meager amount of ok content we get is free.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

ipan.4356:

2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.

I think you are mistaken. We have released content and features in the last two years on a fairly regular basis. Just because the content and/or features were things that you personally did not particularly care for doesn’t mean we didn’t release anything.

Please don’t trivialize the efforts of our design and development staff down to “nothing” because you didn’t like it. It’s fine to comment that you didn’t care for what was released, but don’t pretend like we’ve done nothing here for the past two years.

Just some food for thought, if you work really hard, (on, seriously your filters need work) something going the direction you’ve chosen for the game to go, and your customers are considering it “nothing”, maybe you’re going the wrong direction.

Maybe when interviewers are asking about things like GvG, Precursor crafting, and new dungeons your guys shouldn’t blow them off and say your focus is living story.

Remember, by this time, GW1 had had 2 full campaigns with an expansion on the way in about 6 months.

The original Arenanet vision for GW1 was frequent new CAMPAIGNS, standalone, and then in 2007 you changed direction and decided a new game was in order, and GW1 wouldn’t be getting its frequent campaigns, okay fine, we were on board for that, new game, legacy players would be rewarded in the new game, etc.

But I’ll tell you those players had the expectations that GW2 would have a similar content structure to GW1, with frequent campaign releases.

Here we’re 2 years out and we’re just now getting a new permanent landscape zone, our first since southsun, which came out just a few months after launch.

We’re still on the same continent.

Still have the same classes, races, weapons

Still have the same dungeons except a modified path of Twilight Arbor.

Still have all precursors sourced from RNG drops or mystic forge.

Took a year and a half to get a second game mode in PVP

Still no GVG

DarksunG.9537:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Flytrap.8075:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tada, and we see yet again just why the devs won’t (can’t) talk to us.

Good job guys! Keep it up!

Someone has to counterbalance the white knights.

A term to inaccurately describe those that don’t agree with you, nothing more. Gotta love the way people label others ….

You mean like how people who praise everything Anet does call people that disagree with them “haters” & “QQers”? Ok.

Nobody cares about feature packs. They want more content.

I’d rather have Features than LS.

They didn’t, they promised a living world.

Gonna have to call BS on this one, hard. From even before launch they talked about content in terms of “expansions” a term loaded with history. People knew what that was. They only started getting married to the LS months after it first got a label. Around F&F. (which they ridiculously called “an expansion’s worth of content”) & that article that was linked said " Our goal is to make it so you get more from Gw2 for free than you get from a game you pay a subscription for." It’s certainly released more FREE content than most MMOs, that’s great. But the lie that White Knights keep propagating that it’s even close to a full expansion is laughable. Even if you compare it to GW1 which wasn’t even a full MMO, the amount of content & major features is about 1/3-1/2. Just from Prophecies to Factions the # of in-game weapons skins more than doubled. & that doesn’t include Sorrow’s Furnace. Stop perpetuating the bogus.

wwwes.1398:

In fact, I think they have said all along they don’t really want to add more races or classes, so if that comes along, it’s just a nicety.

BS again. They’ve said multiple times they were well into making the Tengu, they were supposed to be there at launch, but they ran out of time. It being a “nicety” is ridiculous. You don’t make an entire race with a full leveling progression & story as a “nicety”. You’re trying to play down things to make them sound benevolent.

I love GW2. I can admit have major, major issues with it. far more than I had with GW1. But it is true that the Feature Packs feel way more anemic than the LS, yet the hype is greater. For many of us who want traditional amounts of Expansion-like content, we’d rather pay for it than rave about how great it is that the meager amount of ok content we get is free.

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a statement from Anet saying Tengu were supposed to be at launch. I’ve seen fans say it but I’ve not ever seen anyone be able to back it up with a quote.

Devildoc.6721:

Just some food for thought, if you work really hard, (on, seriously your filters need work) something going the direction you’ve chosen for the game to go, and your customers are considering it “nothing”, maybe you’re going the wrong direction.

Some more food for thought might be that only a tiny fraction of the playerbase has come here to say that they consider it to be nothing. If far more people than complain about it, or quit the game, play it, spend money in the gemshop, etc then of course they will continue with it.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a statement from Anet saying Tengu were supposed to be at launch. I’ve seen fans say it but I’ve not ever seen anyone be able to back it up with a quote.

Well there is no big announcement. There is Stuff in my making of GW2 about how they were major candidates for the playable race & the other thing I heard I believe was an interview. Can’t remember if WP talked about it. But yeah, they definitely were thinking about having Tengu from the start, not like some “made for add-on” type thing.
I may be wrong in that they were “well on their way” (thought there is evidence that’s true, I might be confusing that with the Cantha district) but it’s a major feature, not some “nicety”.

DarksunG.9537:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a statement from Anet saying Tengu were supposed to be at launch. I’ve seen fans say it but I’ve not ever seen anyone be able to back it up with a quote.

Well there is no big announcement. There is Stuff in my making of GW2 about how they were major candidates for the playable race & the other thing I heard I believe was an interview. Can’t remember if WP talked about it. But yeah, they definitely were thinking about having Tengu from the start, not like some “made for add-on” type thing.

. . . there’s stuff in there about them being major candidates before the game was finalized? And that means they were always meant to be in the game?

And because WoodenPotatoes mentioned it, it has to be legit?

. . . I’m going to pay him $100 to talk about how the asura were always meant to be catapult ammunition.

DarksunG.9537:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a statement from Anet saying Tengu were supposed to be at launch. I’ve seen fans say it but I’ve not ever seen anyone be able to back it up with a quote.

Well there is no big announcement. There is Stuff in my making of GW2 about how they were major candidates for the playable race & the other thing I heard I believe was an interview. Can’t remember if WP talked about it. But yeah, they definitely were thinking about having Tengu from the start, not like some “made for add-on” type thing.

They considered Tegu and then decided not to do it. That’s very different than supposed to be in though. It was a decision.

They never said it would be in the game after that, and assuming it would isn’t necessarily a good thing to do.

i wished they add the traits template to the feature pack, just like in GW1.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . there’s stuff in there about them being major candidates before the game was finalized? And that means they were always meant to be in the game?

No, It means that it was at a time intended to be part of the release as opposed to something planned later that would be “nice”. I should not have said “they were well into making the Tengu, they were supposed to be there at launch” because that sounds like we know exactly what they did (other than what we see in the game). My point was that making an entire race with a starting zone & Personal Story is not a “nicety”, it’s a massive amount of content & a huge feature.

Vayne.8563:

They never said it would be in the game after that, and assuming it would isn’t necessarily a good thing to do.

I did assume we had more information about it, but I can’t find any right now, so that could be totally wrong.

DarksunG.9537:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . there’s stuff in there about them being major candidates before the game was finalized? And that means they were always meant to be in the game?

No, It means that it was at a time intended to be part of the release as opposed to something planned later that would be “nice”. I should not have said “they were well into making the Tengu, they were supposed to be there at launch” because that sounds like we know exactly what they did (other than what we see in the game). My point was that making an entire race with a starting zone & Personal Story is not a “nicety”, it’s a massive amount of content & a huge feature.

Your point is noted, but it still doesn’t matter since it’s content they decided not to pursue before it hit Beta. Which, for our purposes discussing the game, means they weren’t planning on it being in the game anymore when they were getting it (moderately) ready for release.

Also, “nicety” is such a subjective term. What one person’s “nicety” might be, could also be someone else’s “useless clutter”.

. . . like charr horns.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

DarksunG.9537:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . there’s stuff in there about them being major candidates before the game was finalized? And that means they were always meant to be in the game?

No, It means that it was at a time intended to be part of the release as opposed to something planned later that would be “nice”. I should not have said “they were well into making the Tengu, they were supposed to be there at launch” because that sounds like we know exactly what they did (other than what we see in the game). My point was that making an entire race with a starting zone & Personal Story is not a “nicety”, it’s a massive amount of content & a huge feature.

Your point is noted, but it still doesn’t matter since it’s content they decided not to pursue before it hit Beta. Which, for our purposes discussing the game, means they weren’t planning on it being in the game anymore when they were getting it (moderately) ready for release.

Also, “nicety” is such a subjective term. What one person’s “nicety” might be, could also be someone else’s “useless clutter”.

. . . like charr horns.

Or the system for Charm !

azizul.8469:

i wished they add the traits template to the feature pack, just like in GW1.

+1 I hate having to manually change builds from WvW/PvE/sPvP if they could be saved like in GW1 that would save me a lot of headache X.X

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Your point is noted, but it still doesn’t matter since it’s content they decided not to pursue before it hit Beta. Which, for our purposes discussing the game, means they weren’t planning on it being in the game anymore when they were getting it (moderately) ready for release.

It just means that it’s a significant enough feature to be considered for launch. “Nicety” works for the Feature Pack, not for an entire race, you’re making the word more ambiguous than it is. Like finding another sentient race on earth is more than a nicety. I don’t care for PvP, but I can tell that having more game modes is more than a “nicety” for PvP players.

DarksunG.9537:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Your point is noted, but it still doesn’t matter since it’s content they decided not to pursue before it hit Beta. Which, for our purposes discussing the game, means they weren’t planning on it being in the game anymore when they were getting it (moderately) ready for release.

It just means that it’s a significant enough feature to be considered for launch. “Nicety” works for the Feature Pack, not for an entire race, you’re making the word more ambiguous than it is. Like finding another sentient race on earth is more than a nicety. I don’t care for PvP, but I can tell that having more game modes is more than a “nicety” for PvP players.

It is ambiguous. For me, a nicety is giving someone a lift if I know them and am going their direction. I can tell you that’s usually more than ‘nothing special’ some of the time. A nicety for a friend of mine was giving his bag of McDonalds to some homeless person under a bridge. And someone once put a rare penny worth $1500 into circulation just to do so in case it found its way into another coin-collector’s hands.

Point is, there’s a broad range of “nicety” vs “significant contribution” and it’s entirely subjective. Pretty much as subjective as “is Job-o-Tron annoyingly distracting to the story or is he the best character evar”.

And we’re not ‘finding another sentient race’. We already know the tengu are there. (Some people during the Battle of Lion’s Arch discovered they are very much there and have some really awesome bow damage ratings.)

If only I had a penny for every entitled whiner on the forums…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is ambiguous. For me, a nicety is giving someone a lift if I know them and am going their direction. I can tell you that’s usually more than ‘nothing special’ some of the time. A nicety for a friend of mine was giving his bag of McDonalds to some homeless person under a bridge. And someone once put a rare penny worth $1500 into circulation just to do so in case it found its way into another coin-collector’s hands.

Point is, there’s a broad range of “nicety” vs “significant contribution” and it’s entirely subjective. Pretty much as subjective as “is Job-o-Tron annoyingly distracting to the story or is he the best character evar”.

And we’re not ‘finding another sentient race’. We already know the tengu are there. (Some people during the Battle of Lion’s Arch discovered they are very much there and have some really awesome bow damage ratings.)

More like “it’s as ambiguous as I need for my argument”. Just like how " supposed to be there at launch" conveniently meant “always meant to be in the game”.

DarksunG.9537:

More like “it’s as ambiguous as I need for my argument”. Just like how " supposed to be there at launch" conveniently meant “always meant to be in the game”.

Isn’t that what “at launch” means? Is there some other reality in which “at launch” doesn’t mean “in the game”?