Guild Wars 2

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

I actually choose to play GW2 because it has no “end-game” content. If anything, things like Ascended gear feels wrong to me. And, Legendaries should just have Exotic stats. Not saying you’re wrong, OP, but I believe a lot of people chose this game exactly because of no “end-game”.

nikitnq.7143:

I actually choose to play GW2 because it has no “end-game” content. If anything, things like Ascended gear feels wrong to me. And, Legendaries should just have Exotic stats. Not saying you’re wrong, OP, but I believe a lot of people chose this game exactly because of no “end-game”.

You are a casual player, of course this is the game for you

But its 100% possible to have endgame content and still please players like yourself…
Unfortuntely, I just don’t believe anet is up to the task of putting in that much work.

GW1 had a bigger dev team and it was obvious.
The lack of content in gw2 timeline shows you where anet’s focus is….gemstore + Living story. thats it. And unfortuntely, its not going to last very long with this model

The Megaserver system was solely introduced because of the vast amount of “dead” servers. Maps were completely barren outside of high tier servers. Spin it however you guys want to , but its pretty obvious the game has been losing players and its lack of endgame is one of the big reasons why.

Right now, all there is to do is go around doing
-WvW (which has literally been the same for over a year, EoTM is a joke and just filled with karma trains/uplvls).

-sPvP. The pvp is not even close to as good as it was in GW1. The amount of diversity in gw1 pvp was incredible. Here, every where game I join is filled with decap engi, hambow , MM necros , spirit ranger, etc etc. its Dull and boring. No new gamemodes for years? Its obvious they don’t care much about pvp here.

-Skin farming. not my cup of tea , but w/e. All you do is go around farming scraps and scraps and more scraps until you have enough to put together and buy a skin/legendary. The loot system might be the most dull thing i’ve ever seen. Champion loot bags? great we filled it with even more scraps to collect!

-Dungs are worthless outside of getting your daily gold.
-Living story – again, not endgame to me but we shall see how S2 is… If they have stuff like twisted marionette events great, if its same ole lame story with some achievements and a back peice? cya.

So there you have it. Most of the ppl left are playing for the skins/gemstore/. Servers have been bleeding pop which is the sole reason we got MegaServers now, you can’t even argue against that. If there isnt some big changes coming, this game won’t last without any meaningful xpac like content

@SkiTz

Gw1 didnt have a bigger dev team it had a much smaller dev team. They had 150 developers working on Gw1 they have over 350 working on Gw2.

We have no way of knowing how many people play Gw2 What we do know is their income remained consistent since the 2nd quarter of release (1st quarter was obviously huge due to box sales) Not just that but last quarter was their biggest quarter ever. If they were loosing so many players how would revenue sustain itself do remaining players pay exponentially more month after month?

No doubt some mid teir maps had a low populations on some servers but look at your own post. The only content you claim you’re interested in is sPvP, WvW and Dungeons for your daily. So how often would we find you in a mid level map? Unless you’re leveling an Alt or are one of the people who enjoys doing Dynamic events (which you dont even mention as something one can do for end game) you wouldnt be in a mid level map. Doesnt mean you’re not playing just that you’re playing somewhere else.

I cannot talk for Arenanet but I bet they did Megaservers because they plan to introduce new maps in S2 which would make the player fragementation worst which in turn would make the empty maps issue on some server even worst. One thing I would point out is if was true that very few people still play the game then all the issues reported on the megaserver wouldnt really exist as everyone would be on the same maps. They exist because even mid level maps are busy enough that multiple copies of the map are required to serve the current population.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Arwen, all you have described is WHAT YOU don’t consider end game. You have not described what you want.

The issue is – Elite areas in GW1, were instanced and also they were based on the 6 Gods who are not involved with the game now. Those areas were Elitism ECNOUNTERS (with other players) and they were JUST RAIDS (nothing more – you said no raid so you can’t use these areas as your idea of end game play) – plain and simple. You didn’t have to know what you were doing in those areas. Just whack-a-mole is all they were – nothing special. That armor was a skin only – that is all they were. They were no different that other max armors in GW1. That is what Fractals are in this game. If those areas were SO SPECIAL NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLO THEM AND THEY DID.

Since you have a revisionist memory about GW1, we really can’t have ANY MEANINGFUL discussion.

Raids were in WoW (So leave it to Wow)

Elite instances were in Gw1 (And I did talk a lot about these instances)

I am not asking the devs to bring a duplicate of the zones that were in Gw1. I was giving examples of what was considered High level end game and rewarding content

Now I shall repeat the question again. Where is the high level rewarding end game content

And who cares if the gods are not there anymore in Gw2. This is not an excuse for the devs to not be able to bring something that is hard and rewarding and that has no relation with the gods of tyria.

A R W E N.6895:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Arwen, all you have described is WHAT YOU don’t consider end game. You have not described what you want.

The issue is – Elite areas in GW1, were instanced and also they were based on the 6 Gods who are not involved with the game now. Those areas were Elitism ECNOUNTERS (with other players) and they were JUST RAIDS (nothing more – you said no raid so you can’t use these areas as your idea of end game play) – plain and simple. You didn’t have to know what you were doing in those areas. Just whack-a-mole is all they were – nothing special. That armor was a skin only – that is all they were. They were no different that other max armors in GW1. That is what Fractals are in this game. If those areas were SO SPECIAL NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLO THEM AND THEY DID.

Since you have a revisionist memory about GW1, we really can’t have ANY MEANINGFUL discussion.

Raids were in WoW (So leave it to Wow)

Elite instances were in Gw1 (And I did talk a lot about these instances)

I am not asking the devs to bring a duplicate of the zones that were in Gw1. I was giving examples of what was considered High level end game and rewarding content

Now I shall repeat the question again. Where is the high level rewarding end game content

And who cares if the gods are not there anymore in Gw2. This is not an excuse for the devs to not be able to bring something that is hard and rewarding and that has no relation with the gods of tyria.

You’re just playing with semantics. They stayed away from raids not because the word raid is tainted but because raid are exclusionary content in that unless you dedicate yourself to raiding you’re going to miss on content and rewards provided by said content are going to be out of reach. The Gw1 elite instances while not as bad are also exclusionary. my Gw1 guild was not the hardcore type and we didnt have people who ran FoW, UW etc… And it wasnt easy to find a Pug for them either. They were out of my reach for a while until I made friends with people who actually ran them and started joining them now and again. Thats counter to the Gw2 core design of avoiding exclusionary content.

As for your now famous quote “Where is the high level rewarding end game content” like others have pointed out to you thats all subjective. What you find rewarding isnt whatever one else finds rewarding. For me who loves dynamic events a good dynamic event chain in a mid level map can be rewarding high level end game content for you clearly it isnt.

Galen Grey.4709:

Not just that but last quarter was their biggest quarter ever.

How do you figure? NCsoft reported earnings for 1st Qtr 2014 for GW2 of 25,142M KW. The report for 4th Qtr 2013 showed GW2 earnings of 33,555M KW. Q2 2014 has not yet ended, so Q1 is the "last quarter’ reported.

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/earnings.aspx#none

SkiTz.4590:

nikitnq.7143:

I actually choose to play GW2 because it has no “end-game” content. If anything, things like Ascended gear feels wrong to me. And, Legendaries should just have Exotic stats. Not saying you’re wrong, OP, but I believe a lot of people chose this game exactly because of no “end-game”.

You are a casual player, of course this is the game for you

But its 100% possible to have endgame content and still please players like yourself…
Unfortuntely, I just don’t believe anet is up to the task of putting in that much work.

GW1 had a bigger dev team and it was obvious.
The lack of content in gw2 timeline shows you where anet’s focus is….gemstore + Living story. thats it. And unfortuntely, its not going to last very long with this model

The Megaserver system was solely introduced because of the vast amount of “dead” servers. Maps were completely barren outside of high tier servers. Spin it however you guys want to , but its pretty obvious the game has been losing players and its lack of endgame is one of the big reasons why.

Right now, all there is to do is go around doing
-WvW (which has literally been the same for over a year, EoTM is a joke and just filled with karma trains/uplvls).

-sPvP. The pvp is not even close to as good as it was in GW1. The amount of diversity in gw1 pvp was incredible. Here, every where game I join is filled with decap engi, hambow , MM necros , spirit ranger, etc etc. its Dull and boring. No new gamemodes for years? Its obvious they don’t care much about pvp here.

-Skin farming. not my cup of tea , but w/e. All you do is go around farming scraps and scraps and more scraps until you have enough to put together and buy a skin/legendary. The loot system might be the most dull thing i’ve ever seen. Champion loot bags? great we filled it with even more scraps to collect!

-Dungs are worthless outside of getting your daily gold.
-Living story – again, not endgame to me but we shall see how S2 is… If they have stuff like twisted marionette events great, if its same ole lame story with some achievements and a back peice? cya.

So there you have it. Most of the ppl left are playing for the skins/gemstore/. Servers have been bleeding pop which is the sole reason we got MegaServers now, you can’t even argue against that. If there isnt some big changes coming, this game won’t last without any meaningful xpac like content

Here we go ‘Casual’ player talk again. Just because a player doesn’t like endless grind in a game, doesn’t mean they are ‘Casual’.

Again talking without proof. I guess it must be nice to be omnipotent like you but I am a mere mortal and don’t see people leaving. More people are coming back after dealing with the travesty that is ESO and the grind that is Wildstar (people hit max lvl in WS in lass than 12 hours of play).

GW1 HAD a smaller development team. As a matter of fact, they had a team trying to develop GW2 while GW1 was still adding to it (EotN).

MMO’s should not have ‘END GAMES’. After all it would be the END OF THE GAME and hence why would you play any more. The idea is to continue on, hence with GW2, LS2 is coming out.

The LS is a time line – if you actually understood the Tyria time line you would understand that. It is meant to add more of a living feel to the game as it is like life, quick then dealing with the impacts of it for a long time.

So let me rephrase my question: Where is the level 80 high level rewarding content

IndigoSundown.5419:

Galen Grey.4709:

Not just that but last quarter was their biggest quarter ever.

How do you figure? NCsoft reported earnings for 1st Qtr 2014 for GW2 of 25,142M KW. The report for 4th Qtr 2013 showed GW2 earnings of 33,555M KW. Q2 2014 has not yet ended, so Q1 is the "last quarter’ reported.

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/earnings.aspx#none

sorry you’re right meant Q4 and technically its not the top quarter ever since Q4 2013 was actually slightly higher. But anyhow moral of the story remains they didnt have any down ward trends (been stable around the 25b-28b KW) with a small spike in Q4

A R W E N.6895:

So let me rephrase my question: Where is the level 80 high level rewarding content

In you’re head, since high level and rewarding are in the eye of the beholder.

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Ahhhhh thats a breath of fresh air!!! He gets it because he did play the game

You were not forced to play the elite content in Gw1, but it was still there for the people who wanted to enjoy it.

A R W E N.6895:

So let me rephrase my question: Where is the level 80 high level rewarding content

Thats the thing you’re discounting everything that isnt level 80 and Neither Gw2 nor Gw1 work on that model. There is a reason why Gw1 had a very shallow leveling curve and there is a reason why Gw2 has downleveling and thats so all content remains relevant.

You keep looking at this with typical MMO glasses and it just isnt that. Like they said since long before game release end game starts at level 1 and thats does not mean at level 80 you’re going to find new content you didnt see at level 1. it means new content is going to be seeded everywhere from new dynamic events in kexxeks hills to a new jumping puzzle in gandareen fields as well as level 80 stuff such as new dynamic events in southsun. If this doesnt work for you I am sorry but they’re only doing what they said they’d be doing.

First step to get what you want is define what you want which you seem to have difficulty doing since you’re keeping it all very generic. 2nd step is to release whatever you might want to do if your feedback is taken on board might not be exactly how you imagined it to be. For example by “Where is the high level rewarding end game content” you might mean (I dont know only you can definite exactly) say difficult content with specific rewards. In your mind you might have UW but they end up doing Wurm world boss like event. Looking at it through standard mmo glasses you might dismiss it cause it isnt even max level content but that would be wrong since pretty sure Wurm is much harder then any level 80 content you can do currently in the game. Like I said Gw2 isnt your stereotypical game things are done differently here. Level isnt an indication of difficulty.

Saying that this game’s endgame content is WvW and PvP is just a kitten attempt to excuse it for its absolutely abysmal PvE balancing.

A R W E N.6895:

So let me rephrase my question: Where is the level 80 high level rewarding content

In all the zones because mobs drop base off of level not the zone your in.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Arwen, all you have described is WHAT YOU don’t consider end game. You have not described what you want.

The issue is – Elite areas in GW1, were instanced and also they were based on the 6 Gods who are not involved with the game now. Those areas were Elitism ECNOUNTERS (with other players) and they were JUST RAIDS (nothing more – you said no raid so you can’t use these areas as your idea of end game play) – plain and simple. You didn’t have to know what you were doing in those areas. Just whack-a-mole is all they were – nothing special. That armor was a skin only – that is all they were. They were no different that other max armors in GW1. That is what Fractals are in this game. If those areas were SO SPECIAL NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLO THEM AND THEY DID.

Since you have a revisionist memory about GW1, we really can’t have ANY MEANINGFUL discussion.

Sorry, but, FoW, UW, DoA and the others WERE NOT raids unless you consiider an 8 man party a raid group, if so, then that is only your opinion of what a raid is, these areas took a great deal of co-ordinated effort and was one of the best things about those areas(done them many times). There are MANY THINGS from GW1 that should have been included with GW2 like the manifesto claimed; “expect to see the best of GW1 in GW2”, yeah right, that was the biggest bait and switch statement/campaign in history.

What you see is what you get.

Don’t expect much more or you’ll only end up disappointed.

Taygus.4571:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Taygus.4571:

LS2, will be your endgame content, geez.

“The achievements will be much more difficult to complete than those traditionally found in Season 1, and are intended to be challenging achievements for skilled players to overcome. Each achievement will award both achievement points and material rewards.”

There, now just wait.

The neverending “wait”, “be patient”, “just let them work”, “let them balance first”.

Mate, this game is 2-years old. Enough with the patience things.

It’ll be out in the first of July mate.

And the game isn’t 2 years old…. so yeah, chill.

You complainers have won out and anet is moving away from temporary content. The new LS is for lv80’s only… it’s permanent and endgame, you win.
Now stop complaining and wait to see what it’s like.

Oh, right, because when the game is 1 year 10 months old it’s not close to 2 years old, right? God…

You are being offensive towards those that were justified to call Season 1 a miserable piece of mostly temporary content and all they wanted was a change of attitude.

Now, approaching 1 July, we are promised to get “more difficult and more permanent content” within Season 2, but all the promises now should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Enough with calling someone’s names because they voice their opinion on the forums, mate – precisely where they should be doing that.

Either you participate in a discussion or offend someone because they voice their opinion here. The second one is not allowed here, though. Keep that in mind.

High level content (not all Max level obviously):
Fractals
Dungeons
Temple Events
Tequatl
Karka
Triple Trouble Wurm
World vs. World vs. World
sPvP
Achievement Completion

If the content above that is in the game isn’t hard enough for you, try to solo the dungeons, do WvWvW naked, find and fight all the champions in the game by yourself. Find a way that is available to you as a player to challenge yourself. Lots have found ways to do that, why can’t you?

Now on to the reward aspect of your query…
Re·ward
ri?wôrd/
noun: reward; plural noun: rewards
1. a thing given in recognition of one’s service, effort, or achievement.

A reward is something given for completing something. Hence Blues & greens are a reward. It might not be what you want but it is something given to you for completing the content. All of the events above give you something for your effort and as such you are rewarded.

You say you don’t like the rewards given, well pretty much too bad. LOTS of people (me included) think the game rewards and drops suck. The only way the drops will get better is if ANet does something with the loot tables. We can’t fix that.

The end game for Guild Wars 2 is what you make it given the content available. They’ve told us that starting with Season 2 of the Living Story it will be lvl 80 content with harder achievements. If after you try that and it still isn’t your cup of tea, I’d say you need to find another MMO.

We got 6 more fotm coming next November. More super adventure box in September. If the projections are right. So more end game content is on the way.

Perhaps my perspective to games is different.

To me, endgame means I’m free from doing the routine of grinding levels, gearing up, unlocking skills or any form of character progression. My character is done, as powerful as the stats boundaries can allow (with exception to Ascended and Legendaries, whole different can of squigglies).

In this sense, I’m free to do what I feel like doing. I’m free to get lost in the game world, be spontaneous without feeling I’m wasting my time not “progressing”. Being able to immerse myself, without any worries (and a lot of times without much thought either) like that is reward in itself.

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Yes like I said factions provided a short cut to level faster since it was an expansion and provided new classes people might want to try out.
In anycase are you really saying someone could have joined the game played 5hrs to get to max level and just go to UW or FoW and play there? is that really what you’re saying? To which amazing A R W E N seems to think that statement is closer to the truth then no way you could get to UW or FoW with so little effort?

Because even if they were the best players in the world there is no way to do that. Never mind the plat required to buy the runes that such a new player isnt going to have (provided you can even find those superior runes for sale!) never mind the skills you needed to capture and buy. Never mind you wouldnt find a group willing to take you with them at 5hrs old. But you couldnt even go until you were ascended that is impossible to achieve in 5hrs.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Arwen, all you have described is WHAT YOU don’t consider end game. You have not described what you want.

The issue is – Elite areas in GW1, were instanced and also they were based on the 6 Gods who are not involved with the game now. Those areas were Elitism ECNOUNTERS (with other players) and they were JUST RAIDS (nothing more – you said no raid so you can’t use these areas as your idea of end game play) – plain and simple. You didn’t have to know what you were doing in those areas. Just whack-a-mole is all they were – nothing special. That armor was a skin only – that is all they were. They were no different that other max armors in GW1. That is what Fractals are in this game. If those areas were SO SPECIAL NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLO THEM AND THEY DID.

Since you have a revisionist memory about GW1, we really can’t have ANY MEANINGFUL discussion.

Sorry, but, FoW, UW, DoA and the others WERE NOT raids unless you consiider an 8 man party a raid group, if so, then that is only your opinion of what a raid is, these areas took a great deal of co-ordinated effort and was one of the best things about those areas(done them many times). There are MANY THINGS from GW1 that should have been included with GW2 like the manifesto claimed; “expect to see the best of GW1 in GW2”, yeah right, that was the biggest bait and switch statement/campaign in history.

At the beginning of GW1, yes 8 man was a raid – the end part of Prophecies (Ring of Fire, FoW, UW) could be considered RAIDS of that game.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Arwen, all you have described is WHAT YOU don’t consider end game. You have not described what you want.

The issue is – Elite areas in GW1, were instanced and also they were based on the 6 Gods who are not involved with the game now. Those areas were Elitism ECNOUNTERS (with other players) and they were JUST RAIDS (nothing more – you said no raid so you can’t use these areas as your idea of end game play) – plain and simple. You didn’t have to know what you were doing in those areas. Just whack-a-mole is all they were – nothing special. That armor was a skin only – that is all they were. They were no different that other max armors in GW1. That is what Fractals are in this game. If those areas were SO SPECIAL NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLO THEM AND THEY DID.

Since you have a revisionist memory about GW1, we really can’t have ANY MEANINGFUL discussion.

Sorry, but, FoW, UW, DoA and the others WERE NOT raids unless you consiider an 8 man party a raid group, if so, then that is only your opinion of what a raid is, these areas took a great deal of co-ordinated effort and was one of the best things about those areas(done them many times). There are MANY THINGS from GW1 that should have been included with GW2 like the manifesto claimed; “expect to see the best of GW1 in GW2”, yeah right, that was the biggest bait and switch statement/campaign in history.

At the beginning of GW1, yes 8 man was a raid – the end part of Prophecies (Ring of Fire, FoW, UW) could be considered RAIDS of that game.

As I said in my previous statement, “that is only your opinion of what a raid is” and nothing more and I had to take a ride on the ROFLcopter.

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Yes like I said factions provided a short cut to level faster since it was an expansion and provided new classes people might want to try out.
In anycase are you really saying someone could have joined the game played 5hrs to get to max level and just go to UW or FoW and play there? is that really what you’re saying? To which amazing A R W E N seems to think that statement is closer to the truth then no way you could get to UW or FoW with so little effort?

Because even if they were the best players in the world there is no way to do that. Never mind the plat required to buy the runes that such a new player isnt going to have (provided you can even find those superior runes for sale!) never mind the skills you needed to capture and buy. Never mind you wouldnt find a group willing to take you with them at 5hrs old. But you couldnt even go until you were ascended that is impossible to achieve in 5hrs.

I’m having really hard time understanding you. Your point is?
If you’re new to the game and head straight to the Elite Instances quite frankly you’re stupid, pardon me.

The point is like it was before that these Elite instances wherent inclusive only people who made an effort to go there could go there. you’re the one claiming that all you need is to get to max level and buy the best gear which you could do in 5hrs. I merely disagreed and stated you need a much greater effort to partake from that content.

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Yes like I said factions provided a short cut to level faster since it was an expansion and provided new classes people might want to try out.
In anycase are you really saying someone could have joined the game played 5hrs to get to max level and just go to UW or FoW and play there? is that really what you’re saying? To which amazing A R W E N seems to think that statement is closer to the truth then no way you could get to UW or FoW with so little effort?

Because even if they were the best players in the world there is no way to do that. Never mind the plat required to buy the runes that such a new player isnt going to have (provided you can even find those superior runes for sale!) never mind the skills you needed to capture and buy. Never mind you wouldnt find a group willing to take you with them at 5hrs old. But you couldnt even go until you were ascended that is impossible to achieve in 5hrs.

I’m having really hard time understanding you. Your point is?
If you’re new to the game and head straight to the Elite Instances quite frankly you’re stupid, pardon me.

Where do YOU get off calling people stupid?

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Yes like I said factions provided a short cut to level faster since it was an expansion and provided new classes people might want to try out.
In anycase are you really saying someone could have joined the game played 5hrs to get to max level and just go to UW or FoW and play there? is that really what you’re saying? To which amazing A R W E N seems to think that statement is closer to the truth then no way you could get to UW or FoW with so little effort?

Because even if they were the best players in the world there is no way to do that. Never mind the plat required to buy the runes that such a new player isnt going to have (provided you can even find those superior runes for sale!) never mind the skills you needed to capture and buy. Never mind you wouldnt find a group willing to take you with them at 5hrs old. But you couldnt even go until you were ascended that is impossible to achieve in 5hrs.

I’m having really hard time understanding you. Your point is?
If you’re new to the game and head straight to the Elite Instances quite frankly you’re stupid, pardon me.

The point is like it was before that these Elite instances wherent inclusive only people who made an effort to go there could go there. you’re the one claiming that all you need is to get to max level and buy the best gear which you could do in 5hrs. I merely disagreed and stated you need a much greater effort to partake from that content.

“who made an effort to go there could go there”
What effort are you talking about? Made an effort to master their class, learn their skills, who were willing to learn and listen? Do all the things that make an elite instance elite?

Five hours? Of course. Even less than that. Assuming you’re already experienced and know the game and what you’re doing.

Tumla.7231:

Unfortunately I think the only High End game rewarding content won’t be in Gw2 but in Wildstar. That’s what NCSOFT has decided.

NCSoft has only minimum control over the content of their MMOs. It doesn’t have the authority to dictate what game focuses on what content – that is up to the discretion of the developing team. NCSoft only steps in if the change is predicted to cost them significant money (Such as rating-breaking content, or cutting out a revenue stream)

Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar don’t even compete for the same customers. One is a fantasy MMO in a dramatic painting. The other is a Sci-Fi MMO set in a cartoonish, cell-shaded world.

Ouimette.5902:

Legendary: Gold farm
Ascended Gear: Gold farm
Cultural armor: Gold farm
F****N MINI PETS:… gold farm.

Outside of the cultural armor, gear is only a “Gold Farm” if you have no desire to play the content that awards the stuff normally and more efficiently. Yes, you can buy a legendary – but it’s cheaper and less time-consuming to make it yourself. Same with Ascended Gear.

Sartharina.3542:

Outside of the cultural armor, gear is only a “Gold Farm” if you have no desire to play the content that awards the stuff normally and more efficiently. Yes, you can buy a legendary – but it’s cheaper and less time-consuming to make it yourself. Same with Ascended Gear.

I can attest to this, I am currently achieving these in this manner. Granted, while increasing my Artificer Rating, my Achievement Points gave me thirty gold I didn’t feel I earned, so..

A R W E N.6895:

So let me rephrase my question: Where is the level 80 high level rewarding content

Define rewarding.

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

Galen Grey.4709:

Nick.6972:

They didn’t force you to play Elite Missions, UW or FoW in GW1, there was no obligatory grind.
In fact, I could max out my character, get the best gear, weapons and all skills in less than five hours (and it was extremely cheap).
GW1 “Grind” was optional – only rare armor skins and weapon skins.

I don’t get why they didn’t copy paste the same formula in GW2.

Well sure you could get BiS and max level pretty quickly but then you’re not going to do much in UW or FoW with just BiS and Max level. You need the appropriate runes and right skills as well and that’s going to take far longer then 5hrs. (also the 5hrs is a cheat) It took longer then 5hrs to get to max level / max level gear in prophecies the expansions just provided short cuts to make it easier on alts it isnt fair to quote that number as the standard cause it isnt the standard.

also each of these locations has its own unique rewards. Such as Dhuum’s Soul Reaper you could get from UW or The Obsidian Armor in FoW. Fact is not everyone could go and do UW and FoW without putting in some commitment into the game. It wasnt as bad as other games dont get me wrong but you still had to be a level of hardcore to do it. Gw2 tries to avoid that, if all you want is to log in and do your thing even if your thing is just enjoying the sites no content / reward will be out of reach.

What?
Start Factions – get level 12 on the first island, run Kaineng, start EOTM quest, complete it, run to Brawling dungeon, pop XP scrolls and repeat the dungeon 2-3 times. And you have max level.
Runes were cheap. The only expensive rune was +50hp which wasn’t even good/needed in PvE. Weapons were cheap.

FoW armor wasn’t RNG based. And UW and FoW and other “Elite” Instances weren’t obligatory. They didn’t give you any advantage over the people who chose not to play these instances.

Yes like I said factions provided a short cut to level faster since it was an expansion and provided new classes people might want to try out.
In anycase are you really saying someone could have joined the game played 5hrs to get to max level and just go to UW or FoW and play there? is that really what you’re saying? To which amazing A R W E N seems to think that statement is closer to the truth then no way you could get to UW or FoW with so little effort?

Because even if they were the best players in the world there is no way to do that. Never mind the plat required to buy the runes that such a new player isnt going to have (provided you can even find those superior runes for sale!) never mind the skills you needed to capture and buy. Never mind you wouldnt find a group willing to take you with them at 5hrs old. But you couldnt even go until you were ascended that is impossible to achieve in 5hrs.

I’m having really hard time understanding you. Your point is?
If you’re new to the game and head straight to the Elite Instances quite frankly you’re stupid, pardon me.

The point is like it was before that these Elite instances wherent inclusive only people who made an effort to go there could go there. you’re the one claiming that all you need is to get to max level and buy the best gear which you could do in 5hrs. I merely disagreed and stated you need a much greater effort to partake from that content.

“who made an effort to go there could go there”
What effort are you talking about? Made an effort to master their class, learn their skills, who were willing to learn and listen? Do all the things that make an elite instance elite?

Five hours? Of course. Even less than that. Assuming you’re already experienced and know the game and what you’re doing.

Yes that effort, not everyone cares about min maxing, learning the skills and willing to learn and listen. Not just that but until they do that they’ll find it pretty hard to find a group to take them and thus teach them and all that.

Of course you get to FoE in less then 5 hours if you’re already experianced, know the game and know what you’re doing. Just take your max level character and go But thats not who we’re talking about now are we?

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

Yup, you are.

Teon.5168:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

Yup, you are.

Well I hope that solves this issue. Thread should be dead in about five more posts, I think.

Boneheart.3561:

Teon.5168:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

Yup, you are.

Well I hope that solves this issue. Thread should be dead in about five more posts, I think.

One can always hope.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

A R W E N.6895:

So let me rephrase my question: Where is the level 80 high level rewarding content

Define rewarding.

That’s the 5th time Tobias has asked this question and 3 pages into this thread Arwen still hasn’t answered it. Why do you keep dodging this question Arwen?

Teon.5168:

Boneheart.3561:

Teon.5168:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

Yup, you are.

Well I hope that solves this issue. Thread should be dead in about five more posts, I think.

One can always hope.

That the thing that ppl keep looking for in GW2 and its simply not that ppl are trying to make GW2 into some type of WoW clone. What do i mean by WoW clone i mean by having an progression system at the top level with avages to low mid game content. Blizzard dose this with all of there games and this is what makes games know as a WoW clone. This is the big thing GW2 did and keep it away from being another WoW clone by having content at all level mean something.

Take a game like WS its not a WoW clone because of its look nor its 3 class system its a WoW clone because it has major raid aimed end game and a armor progression system. Even ESO to a point is a WoW clone like game most mmorpgs are in fact because its an easy system to add in more content for players to keep pushing though adding both time that the player must spend in the game and a way to give a player to always work to get something.

To be blunt A R W E N.6895 you want to play a WoW clone you do not want to play any thing that is not like it from what your saying and for the most part GW2 is not going to just be another one.

Added note: WoW clone is not to demean a game its just to enplane what a stander mmorpgs is for its early game mid game and end game where the early game is about fast leveling mid game is about slightly slower leveling but more gear progression and end game being about no leveling and all progression for gear. Combat and looks can different by a lot but the same stander mmorpg systole is still there you just simply have more of open combat system that “seems” more real time then the stander.

Seems like it’s either really hard for OP to express what he wants or other people cannot grasp his ideal end game. I’ll side with the latter.

Was gw1 a wow clone? I don’t think so. Does it have more rewarding end game content than gw2 has? Yes, it does. So why 3 pages of repeating posts?

haviz.1340:

why 3 pages of repeating posts?

It’s repeating because people keep following what the OP is doing: repeating the same thing over and over and dodging pertinent questions.

haviz.1340:

Does it have more rewarding end game content

Define rewarding.

A R W E N.6895:

So yeah, my daily thought…

Where is my high level end game rewarding content ive been waiting for so long?

Am I in the wrong game?

Press “O”, it’s getting updates now and then. Just today they released a new part of this endgame content.

haviz.1340:

Seems like it’s either really hard for OP to express what he wants or other people cannot grasp his ideal end game. I’ll side with the latter.

Was gw1 a wow clone? I don’t think so. Does it have more rewarding end game content than gw2 has? Yes, it does. So why 3 pages of repeating posts?

What does ARWEN want? Please spare no detail.

I used to complain about this ALL THE TIME until one day i had this crazy thought. why dont i craft a legendary? i started having tons of fun the moment a started crafting it because it provided a crazy high goal with incredible reward and a general drive for the game.

Moral of the story, gw2 is what you make it, if you sit around complaining you will never truly enjoy it but if you just get out of lions arch and actually play with the thousands of others on the game you can have tons of fun late game.

And one more honest tip, just take a break for a month or two, and come back to the game and you will find even stuff you found boring like doing hearts and map comp will be lots of fun.

Vesuvius.9874:

haviz.1340:

why 3 pages of repeating posts?

It’s repeating because people keep following what the OP is doing: repeating the same thing over and over and dodging pertinent questions.

haviz.1340:

Does it have more rewarding end game content

Define rewarding.

re·ward·ing adjective \-?wo?r-di?\
: giving you a good feeling that you have done something valuable, important, etc.

: giving you money or profit

GW2 is an easy MMO, a casual type. Therefore, its “end game content”, however miserable it is, is not rewarding. For instance, Tequatl or 3 Headed Wurm are considered “end game content”, yet now that everyone does it on a daily basis ( I did when I was playing the game, together with a large multi-server guild that still exists, I believe ) as it’s nothing complex, the RNG is a joke. It has to be with such easy content.
On the other hand, if GW2 had the harder content, like GW1 for instance, or some hardcore raids like in other games, or was, generally speaking, more difficult as a game ( Lineage 2 up until Chronicles 4/5 ), it would reward you with a guaranteed, very rare drop. Why? Because, unlike in GW2, only few would be able to finish it.

That’s pretty much the understanding of the simple word “rewarding” with regards to “rewarding end game content” in MMOs.

Boneheart.3561:

What does ARWEN want? Please spare no detail.

As another poster observed……just look at Arwen’s sig….that says it all

Teon.5168:

Boneheart.3561:

What does ARWEN want? Please spare no detail.

As another poster observed……just look at Arwen’s sig….that says it all

I saw that, that was a hilariously observation.

Vesuvius.9874:

Define rewarding.

Beside the obvious definition, high end content should be more rewarding than mindless farming. It’s not right now.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Vesuvius.9874:

haviz.1340:

why 3 pages of repeating posts?

It’s repeating because people keep following what the OP is doing: repeating the same thing over and over and dodging pertinent questions.

haviz.1340:

Does it have more rewarding end game content

Define rewarding.

re·ward·ing adjective \-?wo?r-di?\
: giving you a good feeling that you have done something valuable, important, etc.

: giving you money or profit

GW2 is an easy MMO, a casual type. Therefore, its “end game content”, however miserable it is, is not rewarding. For instance, Tequatl or 3 Headed Wurm are considered “end game content”, yet now that everyone does it on a daily basis ( I did when I was playing the game, together with a large multi-server guild that still exists, I believe ) as it’s nothing complex, the RNG is a joke. It has to be with such easy content.
On the other hand, if GW2 had the harder content, like GW1 for instance, or some hardcore raids like in other games, or was, generally speaking, more difficult as a game ( Lineage 2 up until Chronicles 4/5 ), it would reward you with a guaranteed, very rare drop. Why? Because, unlike in GW2, only few would be able to finish it.

That’s pretty much the understanding of the simple word “rewarding” with regards to “rewarding end game content” in MMOs.

This sounds like exclusivity, correct? This is an inclusive game.
I’m interested, now, in how the players can fathom inclusive content that’s “more rewarding” (assuming there’s another definition outside of ‘not everyone can do it’) and won’t collect dust after everyone has done it. Maybe make a brainstorming thread, minus snide comments.

To elaborate, I could go and complete the toughest of the content over and over again and I’ll be still poorer than someone who farms. So what exactly is the incentive for people to complete such content? Just don’t say self-realization, it’s a computer game.

haviz.1340:

Vesuvius.9874:

Define rewarding.

Beside the obvious definition, high end content should be more rewarding than mindless farming. It’s not right now.

Somethings that are difficult, non-farmable, and lucrative? You want money for skill, with little time invested.

“End game” is really what you make of it. For some end game is crafting a legendary, or a full set of ascended armor. For others its soloing dungeons or PvP/WvW. Looking for something challenging to do and getting bored with farming dungeons, EotM etc? Try something along the lines of soloing Fractals with no armor, no utilities and only 1 weapon. I agree that the in game loot rewards are somewhat disappointing, but adding “end game” content is subjective at best. And one can almost guarantee that anything added will just be a zerg fest anyway.