Guild Wars 2

Gibson.4036:

I’m just wondering if there’s someone with enough tech savvy who can speak to whether the game having to render and animate people completely differently depending on the viewer would be overly burdensome on either the servers or people’s computers (no idea where that kind of thing is handled).

There’s already a toggle that lets your client render other people differently – the generic look/culling option.

Gibson.4036:

It’s easy to dismiss anything with the idea that it begins a slippery slope into some tragic conclusion. There’s no reason why a 33% (equivalent to current swiftness) would automatically lead to a 120% speed boost mount, and no reason why it would lead beyond to flying mounts.

There is a reason. it is called all the previous mount threads. They always start with “visuals” only. It doesn’t take long when people (often the same peole that were first “content with visual only”) start asking for speed buffs. Usually they don’t stop at speed buffs either (combat advantage and stat buffs are often mentioned as well).
You can see some of it in this thread already.

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

Well, we have 2 cosmetic-only no-speed-buff mounts in game now. I don’t see it as having satisfied the majority of the pro-mounts camp: the majority of pro-mount voices want the speed for getting around, and clearly they aren’t satisfied with the options/costs for speed that exist now.

Great post. These look like restrictions that even most mount supporters want.

VOLKON.1290:

2. Mounts should have a speed restriction that caps the fastest mounts at the normal running speed for a player. This removes the potential negative impact on the waypoint system as well as the advantage of having a mount over not having a mount.

I’m not sure how a speed boost mount would impact the waypoint system. Can you elaborate?

The only thing I can anticipate is skipping the goldsink involved in waypoints. Most people think of it as negligible, but if you are concerned about keeping it, a feed system could be implemented so that mounts require a constant upkeep cost. If you don’t feed your mount regularly, they end up going slower than standard character run speed.

4. Keep the types of mounts limited, (dolyaks, moas, etc.) but allow for the customization of the mounts to flourish. Different armors (cosmetic) or costumes for your mounts could be available in the Black Lion Trading Post. Mount Makeover kits could be available to customize your mounts appearance (horns, head shape, eyes, beaks, etc.)

I expect, if they ever got implemented, the number of mounts would steadily increase over time to generate fresh interest.

I would, however, expect them to be much like you describe for quite a while. Aesthetics aside, this provides for the greatest return on investment for ArenaNet as the hard work of designing and animating unique creatures can be minimized while providing enough minor cosmetic tweaks to entice players to keep investing in them.

They’ve certainly shown that this is their approach in the past, with reskins of older armor or variations on a theme (like different plushy backpacks).

6. When mounted, skills are changed to mount skills. They’d be simple, Walk, Run (both of which are at the same speed as unmounted), Dismount, maybe something else. No combat skills would be usable when mounted.

Most mount advocates I’ve seen have suggested they be purely non-combat, though it occurs to me they could have skills like many of the bundles or transforms in the game. Namely, so frustratingly inferior to weapons skills that you don’t want to use them anyway.

Just musing, not actually advocating that.

Nike.2631:

Well, we have 2 cosmetic-only no-speed-buff mounts in game now. I don’t see it as having satisfied the majority of the pro-mounts camp: the majority of pro-mount voices want the speed for getting around, and clearly they aren’t satisfied with the options/costs for speed that exist now.

They was greater speed buffs, they want to fight off mounts, etc. It is a slippery slope as once you start allowing one thing, the rest will fall like dominoes. That is why, for example, A.Net does not allow 3rd party programs or macros that are bound to more than one key. In the games EULA and FAQ, it states, ‘That nothing will be allowed the even gives the appearance of giving another player an advantage over another’. I think that is pretty plain.

Nike.2631:

Well, we have 2 cosmetic-only no-speed-buff mounts in game now. I don’t see it as having satisfied the majority of the pro-mounts camp: the majority of pro-mount voices want the speed for getting around, and clearly they aren’t satisfied with the options/costs for speed that exist now.

And here is the bar that keeps mounts off the game, as most people that want mounts envision mounts.

To me it seems they want mounts as they exist in other games Like World of warcraft. Where there is a permanent speed boost. The issue for me is, Speed, is a balanced commodity.

It is balanced by class skills… class traits, it is provided in a balanced way by runes.. and sigils. To suddenly have a permanent speed boost mount would basically make all these balancing attempts completely irrelevant as all someone needs to do is buy a mount.

Second a speed boost mount added to the game means that EVERYONE now has to have a mount, even players that detest mounts. Those that say " if you don’t want one you don’t have to get one" are being disingenuous. If there is a perma-speed boost EVERYONE will have to get one, and even those that refuse to get one will have to see one.

What flumoxxes me is, how there are some…not all… but some proponents that either do not see the balancing nightmare that would ensue from a speed boost mount. Or simply do not care. They Just want their speed boost mount.

The balancing alone is a bar to entry. Then add on top of that the fact that it will slow down the game even more for those on slower computers. Anet doesn’t want even More things that keep people from playing the game.

This is all while discounting completely the objections from people that simply do not want mounts in any way, shape , or form.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Nerelith.7360:

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

[some things deleted to keep salient point]

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

Except you’d have to show that the people who are asking for a speed boost mount didn’t want one or ask until a cosmetic-only was accepted.

I’ve talked about a 60% speed boost mount since we first started discussing the possibility of mounts in game on Guru back in 2010. I didn’t need acceptance of cosmetic-only to ask for it. And if I ever get it, I won’t start asking for flying mounts.

You can argue that having a speed-boost mount is going to lead down a slippery slope to request for flying mounts, but we’ve already had requests for flying mounts on these forums without even having any land-based mounts in game.

I can buy Nike’s slippery slope. If cosmetic horses and dolyaks get added to game, and people with swiftness buffs are blowing past mounted riders left and right because riders are restricted to standard running speed, I expect there would be a vocal request that mounts at least get the 33% buff.

Which is why I keep talking about how a speed boost mount might work in game. I’m one of those people who wouldn’t want a standard-running-speed only mount. And the reason is not because I have a burning desire to get around the tediousness of swapping kits every ten seconds or maintaining my Air/Water/Fire rotation as I cross zones, or equipping and unequipping Focus on my Mesmer in between combats.

It’s primarily because I want the feel of riding a mount, which definitely wouldn’t happen no matter how epic I look on the back of a horse if I’m traveling at this game’s slow standard run speed.

However, I don’t buy 33% speed boost will start the slide down to 120% speed boost which will inevitably lead to flying mounts. There are significant differences of degree there, and a flying mount will do the opposite of moderate speed boost mount, taking people back out of traveling across the world like the waypoint system.

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

[some things deleted to keep salient point]

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

Except you’d have to show that the people who are asking for a speed boost mount didn’t want one or ask until a cosmetic-only was accepted.

I’ve talked about a 60% speed boost mount since we first started discussing the possibility of mounts in game on Guru back in 2010. I didn’t need acceptance of cosmetic-only to ask for it. And if I ever get it, I won’t start asking for flying mounts.

You can argue that having a speed-boost mount is going to lead down a slippery slope to request for flying mounts, but we’ve already had requests for flying mounts on these forums without even having any land-based mounts in game.

I can buy Nike’s slippery slope. If cosmetic horses and dolyaks get added to game, and people with swiftness buffs are blowing past mounted riders left and right because riders are restricted to standard running speed, I expect there would be a vocal request that mounts at least get the 33% buff.

Which is why I keep talking about how a speed boost mount might work in game. I’m one of those people who wouldn’t want a standard-running-speed only mount. And the reason is not because I have a burning desire to get around the tediousness of swapping kits every ten seconds or maintaining my Air/Water/Fire rotation as I cross zones, or equipping and unequipping Focus on my Mesmer in between combats.

It’s primarily because I want the feel of riding a mount, which definitely wouldn’t happen no matter how epic I look on the back of a horse if I’m traveling at this game’s slow standard run speed.

However, I don’t buy 33% speed boost will start the slide down to 120% speed boost which will inevitably lead to flying mounts. There are significant differences of degree there, and a flying mount will do the opposite of moderate speed boost mount, taking people back out of traveling across the world like the waypoint system.

It does and as an example you can look at Rift. In the first 6 months Trion so discombobulated Rift, because players kept asking for more, the game was totally out of balance and still is.

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

[some things deleted to keep salient point]

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

Except you’d have to show that the people who are asking for a speed boost mount didn’t want one or ask until a cosmetic-only was accepted.

I’ve talked about a 60% speed boost mount since we first started discussing the possibility of mounts in game on Guru back in 2010. I didn’t need acceptance of cosmetic-only to ask for it. And if I ever get it, I won’t start asking for flying mounts.

You can argue that having a speed-boost mount is going to lead down a slippery slope to request for flying mounts, but we’ve already had requests for flying mounts on these forums without even having any land-based mounts in game.

I can buy Nike’s slippery slope. If cosmetic horses and dolyaks get added to game, and people with swiftness buffs are blowing past mounted riders left and right because riders are restricted to standard running speed, I expect there would be a vocal request that mounts at least get the 33% buff.

Which is why I keep talking about how a speed boost mount might work in game. I’m one of those people who wouldn’t want a standard-running-speed only mount. And the reason is not because I have a burning desire to get around the tediousness of swapping kits every ten seconds or maintaining my Air/Water/Fire rotation as I cross zones, or equipping and unequipping Focus on my Mesmer in between combats.

It’s primarily because I want the feel of riding a mount, which definitely wouldn’t happen no matter how epic I look on the back of a horse if I’m traveling at this game’s slow standard run speed.

However, I don’t buy 33% speed boost will start the slide down to 120% speed boost which will inevitably lead to flying mounts. There are significant differences of degree there, and a flying mount will do the opposite of moderate speed boost mount, taking people back out of traveling across the world like the waypoint system.

What about the nightmare that will ensue to balance your speed boost mount against all the Speed boost skills, traits, runes and sigils? Just so you can " feel the experience of riding a Mount?"

Or the fact that someone else… playing on a slower, older machine has to pay the price by having a worse experience, just so you can go " yippy – kai-yay" on your Dolyak?

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Nerelith.7360:

What flumoxxes me is, how there are some…not all… but some proponents that either do not see the balancing nightmare that would ensue from a speed boost mount. Or simply do not care. They Just want their speed boost mount.

As I wrote a little earlier, I don’t believe this game is balanced when it comes to out-of-combat speed. There are some professions who have a far smaller cost to their combat builds in order to get it than others.

In-combat speed, I get. Come professions are built around the idea of zipping around while in combat. Putting a careful wall between mounts and combat, along the line of many suggestions that have been made in this thread, would protect combat balance while fixing the imbalance that currently exists in out-of-combat speed.

The balancing alone is a bar to entry. Then add on top of that the fact that it will slow down the game even more for those on slower computers. Anet doesn’t want even More things that keep people from playing the game.

We have at least one post indicating that the option to turn off all mounts would not be a problem, and would work like our current system to see the default models of every profession. If that’s the case, I’d be very happy if people with slow computers and those who hate mounts can simply toggle them off.

This is all while discounting completely the objections from people that simply do not want mounts in any way, shape , or form.

Since your remark was generalized, I don’t know who you consider to be discounting the arguments completely.

I would hope, however, that you can see taking time to address those objections with counter-arguments is not discounting at all. It is treating them with the respect that is due to someone who disagrees.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

[some things deleted to keep salient point]

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

Except you’d have to show that the people who are asking for a speed boost mount didn’t want one or ask until a cosmetic-only was accepted.

I’ve talked about a 60% speed boost mount since we first started discussing the possibility of mounts in game on Guru back in 2010. I didn’t need acceptance of cosmetic-only to ask for it. And if I ever get it, I won’t start asking for flying mounts.

You can argue that having a speed-boost mount is going to lead down a slippery slope to request for flying mounts, but we’ve already had requests for flying mounts on these forums without even having any land-based mounts in game.

I can buy Nike’s slippery slope. If cosmetic horses and dolyaks get added to game, and people with swiftness buffs are blowing past mounted riders left and right because riders are restricted to standard running speed, I expect there would be a vocal request that mounts at least get the 33% buff.

Which is why I keep talking about how a speed boost mount might work in game. I’m one of those people who wouldn’t want a standard-running-speed only mount. And the reason is not because I have a burning desire to get around the tediousness of swapping kits every ten seconds or maintaining my Air/Water/Fire rotation as I cross zones, or equipping and unequipping Focus on my Mesmer in between combats.

It’s primarily because I want the feel of riding a mount, which definitely wouldn’t happen no matter how epic I look on the back of a horse if I’m traveling at this game’s slow standard run speed.

However, I don’t buy 33% speed boost will start the slide down to 120% speed boost which will inevitably lead to flying mounts. There are significant differences of degree there, and a flying mount will do the opposite of moderate speed boost mount, taking people back out of traveling across the world like the waypoint system.

It does and as an example you can look at Rift. In the first 6 months Trion so discombobulated Rift, because players kept asking for more, the game was totally out of balance and still is.

I somehow doubt that ANet will cave to player demands. 20 months since the game has been out, we’ve witnessed that ANet doesn’t add things left and right just because it was asked.

Drop a mount that gives 33% speed boost. Make it go no further. Those who are kittening about mounts being in the game can then decide if they want to get one or not. If they want to run or walk, that’s fine. Nothing about having a mount makes it less advantageous than traiting and/or equipping a character to get from Point A to Point B faster.

As for mounted combat, there’s no need for that. So let’s keep that topic as well as flying mounts out of it.

Dusty Moon.4382:

It does and as an example you can look at Rift. In the first 6 months Trion so discombobulated Rift, because players kept asking for more, the game was totally out of balance and still is.

Yes, developers can lose their vision in trying to satisfy the players. I would argue ArenaNet did this with GW2 shortly after launch.

Still, that doesn’t provide a good foundation for showing that it will happen with mounts, and that a 33% speed boost mount will inevitably slide down the slippery slope to flying mounts.

(On a side note, it still makes me a little sad to this day when I think about how, during beta, Trion pulled all of the teeth from invasions during because players complained they couldn’t keep questing as usual while one was occurring.)

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

What flumoxxes me is, how there are some…not all… but some proponents that either do not see the balancing nightmare that would ensue from a speed boost mount. Or simply do not care. They Just want their speed boost mount.

As I wrote a little earlier, I don’t believe this game is balanced when it comes to out-of-combat speed. There are some professions who have a far smaller cost to their combat builds in order to get it than others.

In-combat speed, I get. Come professions are built around the idea of zipping around while in combat. Putting a careful wall between mounts and combat, along the line of many suggestions that have been made in this thread, would protect combat balance while fixing the imbalance that currently exists in out-of-combat speed.

The balancing alone is a bar to entry. Then add on top of that the fact that it will slow down the game even more for those on slower computers. Anet doesn’t want even More things that keep people from playing the game.

We have at least one post indicating that the option to turn off all mounts would not be a problem, and would work like our current system to see the default models of every profession. If that’s the case, I’d be very happy if people with slow computers and those who hate mounts can simply toggle them off.

This is all while discounting completely the objections from people that simply do not want mounts in any way, shape , or form.

Since your remark was generalized, I don’t know who you consider to be discounting the arguments completely.

I would hope, however, that you can see taking time to address those objections with counter-arguments is not discounting at all. It is treating them with the respect that is due to someone who disagrees.

I will admit, I used to be One that Just did not care for mounts at all Not even a Little bit. But to quote a famous Politician about marriage equality… " My views on the matter have evolved."

For me, there is a difference between having " Hide mounts" when it comes to cosmetics only" mounts. ( Which do not move any fastwer than people without a Mount)…and using this for speed buff mounts.

Seeing a player NOT mounted zipping along at even 125 % speed boost is ridiculous. As such a speed boost mount Now crawls ( see what I did there?) from a " Mount I can hide and Not see " to " a mount I HAVE to see."

At this point if we are to have a speed boost mount. it HAS to be aesthetically pleasing to most.. and that is hard to do since “Degustibus at coloris non est disputandum”….

it also has to be balanced against all other speed even out of combat. The devs decided that speed is to be balanced across classes at all times…not just combat. While I myself do not Understand that reasoning the only thing I can suggest is… identifying that moment when combat takes place and then switching one rule set " Non combat speed boosts." from the other." combat speed boosts." may not be worth it for most players… they see no distinction.

it seems that only if you are trying to Put a speed boost mount in the game that ONLY derives the speed boost while OUT of combat would you need to Introduce the " In combat speed boost" rule set..( without mounts)…from the " Out of combat speed boost " ruleselt..( includes mounts)

Too much work too much in terms of resources, to satisfy a group that just want fluff.

The devs have better things to do than this.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Nerelith.7360:

What about the nightmare that will ensue to balance your speed boost mount against all the Speed boost skills, traits, runes and sigils? Just so you can " feel the experience of riding a Mount?"

I’ve addressed this higher up. I don’t think it will be a balance nightmare. With a careful wall of mechanics between mounts and combat, it corrects the imbalance that is already there between professions when it comes to out-of-combat speed boosts, while not affecting the balance the developers are trying to achieve between in-combat speed and other combat abilities.

Or the fact that someone else… playing on a slower, older machine has to pay the price by having a worse experience, just so you can go " yippy – kai-yay" on your Dolyak?

Interestingly enough, ArenaNet has already made this choice. For example, if I set my machine to render only default character models so that I can get a better framerate, the game still renders specialty items like achievement skins and legendaries.

Nevertheless, nobody seems to be against the idea of giving you the ability to toggle off mounts so you don’t have to see them and your computer doesn’t have to render them.

Nerelith.7360:

Seeing a player NOT mounted zipping along at even 125 % speed boost is ridiculous. As such a speed boost mount Now crawls ( see what I did there?) from a " Mount I can hide and Not see " to " a mount I HAVE to see."

At least since this thread reappeared on the front page, the highest I’ve seen anyone suggest is 60%, which was me.

Like yours, my thoughts have evolved, and recently I’ve been mostly talking about 33%. If that were the case, the people around you who are on mounts that you can’t see would only be travelling as fast as any other character with swiftness activated.

it also has to be balanced against all other speed even out of combat. The devs decided that speed is to be balanced across classes at all times…not just combat.

I’m not sure they have decided anything of the sort. As far as I can tell from our current system, I’d say they worked to balance speed with combat, and didn’t really think about the fact that players use speed for two seperate things. One is mobility in combat, the other for simply crossing distance.

It’s possible they simply shrugged their shoulders and said, “Oh well, some professions got screwed out of combat… let them use waypoints.”

While I myself do not Understand that reasoning the only thing I can suggest is… identifying that moment when combat takes place and then switching one rule set " Non combat speed boosts." from the other." combat speed boosts." may not be worth it for most players… they see no distinction.

it seems that only if you are trying to Put a speed boost mount in the game that ONLY derives the speed boost while OUT of combat would you need to Introduce the " In combat speed boost" rule set..( without mounts)…from the " Out of combat speed boost " ruleselt..( includes mounts)

I think you’re overcomplicating it.

It’s as simple as automatic dismount in combat. There, mounts and their speed boosts don’t affect combat. Players can decide to trait and gear for speed if they still need it in combat, or choose to just use mounts for crossing distances and live with standard run speed in combat.

There’s really no need to talk about IC and OOC rulesets, except in a meta-discussion about whether non-combat mounts would affect game balance.

The devs have better things to do than this.

And that’s where we agree at this time. I like to imagine that some of the glaring problems in the game will be fixed at some point. At that point, I’d like them to reconsider adding mounts.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

At this point, you might want to go ahead and add that to your sig, so you don’t have to waste time retyping it on every post.

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

What about the nightmare that will ensue to balance your speed boost mount against all the Speed boost skills, traits, runes and sigils? Just so you can " feel the experience of riding a Mount?"

I’ve addressed this higher up. I don’t think it will be a balance nightmare. With a careful wall of mechanics between mounts and combat, it corrects the imbalance that is already there between professions when it comes to out-of-combat speed boosts, while not affecting the balance the developers are trying to achieve between in-combat speed and other combat abilities.

Or the fact that someone else… playing on a slower, older machine has to pay the price by having a worse experience, just so you can go " yippy – kai-yay" on your Dolyak?

Interestingly enough, ArenaNet has already made this choice. For example, if I set my machine to render only default character models so that I can get a better framerate, the game still renders specialty items like achievement skins and legendaries.

Nevertheless, nobody seems to be against the idea of giving you the ability to toggle off mounts so you don’t have to see them and your computer doesn’t have to render them.

Tell you what. You have valid Points. Make the cosmetics-only mounts hideable, or Aestetically pleasing, Non-rediculous, and Lore respecting. And I am fine with it.

As to speed boost mounts, you still have not addressed the most important problem. If you have any speed boost NOT balanced with pre-existing speed boost, then EVERYONE has to buy and use them…Not just the ones that want them, since that will make Speed boost mounts overpowered.

And they will be demanded even if out of combat. Since someone joining a group for a dungeon, then has to get to the dungeon ASAP. If they say " I can’t get there faster.." " hey don’t you have a Mount??" What should they do…Lie? or tell the truth? if they tell the truth they get kicked out of the group.

So Speed Boost mounts have to 1. be Aesthetically pleasing. 2. Not look rediculous. 3. Not be Lore Breaking. That means NO live creatures as mounts, they must all be constructs. and 4. Be properly balanced across all other speed boost skills…so that they are not OP, and then everyone HAS to have them, even players that do not want them. A playeerr riding a speed boost mount must be balanced with an elementalist using air attuned staff skill #4.

Here is a thought. Since they must be constructs…turn that into an independant quest all it’s own. You need someone to build it for you, an NPC in Mount Maelstrom that you need to get to, that then tells you the components you need.

Nerelith.7360:

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

What about the nightmare that will ensue to balance your speed boost mount against all the Speed boost skills, traits, runes and sigils? Just so you can " feel the experience of riding a Mount?"

I’ve addressed this higher up. I don’t think it will be a balance nightmare. With a careful wall of mechanics between mounts and combat, it corrects the imbalance that is already there between professions when it comes to out-of-combat speed boosts, while not affecting the balance the developers are trying to achieve between in-combat speed and other combat abilities.

Or the fact that someone else… playing on a slower, older machine has to pay the price by having a worse experience, just so you can go " yippy – kai-yay" on your Dolyak?

Interestingly enough, ArenaNet has already made this choice. For example, if I set my machine to render only default character models so that I can get a better framerate, the game still renders specialty items like achievement skins and legendaries.

Nevertheless, nobody seems to be against the idea of giving you the ability to toggle off mounts so you don’t have to see them and your computer doesn’t have to render them.

Tell you what. You have valid Points. Make the cosmetics-only mounts hideable, or Aestetically pleasing, Non-rediculous, and Lore respecting. And I am fine with it.

As to speed boost mounts, you still have not addressed the most important problem. If you have any speed boost NOT balanced with pre-existing speed boost, then EVERYONE has to buy and use them…Not just the ones that want them, since that will make Speed boost mounts overpowered.

And they will be demanded even if out of combat. Since someone joining a group for a dungeon, then has to get to the dungeon ASAP. If they say " I can’t get there faster.." " hey don’t you have a Mount??" What should they do…Lie? or tell the truth? if they tell the truth they get kicked out of the group.

So Speed Boost mounts have to 1. be Aesthetically pleasing. 2. Not look rediculous. 3. Not be Lore Breaking. That means NO live creatures as mounts, they must all be constructs. and 4. Be properly balanced across all other speed boost skills…so that they are not OP, and then everyone HAS to have them, even players that do not want them.

Here is a thought. Since they must be constructs…turn that into an independant quest all it’s own. You need someone to build it for you, an NPC in Mount Maelstrom that you need to get to, that then tells you the components you need.

..

Running speed is 33% currently. We’re proposing the maybe or maybe not future mounts be at that same 33%. So then, aside from having to hit a button every few seconds if you don’t have a mount, there’s no glaring disadvantage,

Constructs? Like bikes or something? I’m for it. Glad to see you’re slowly overcoming your phobia. We’re making progress.

Skan.5301:

Nerelith.7360:

Gibson.4036:

Nerelith.7360:

What about the nightmare that will ensue to balance your speed boost mount against all the Speed boost skills, traits, runes and sigils? Just so you can " feel the experience of riding a Mount?"

I’ve addressed this higher up. I don’t think it will be a balance nightmare. With a careful wall of mechanics between mounts and combat, it corrects the imbalance that is already there between professions when it comes to out-of-combat speed boosts, while not affecting the balance the developers are trying to achieve between in-combat speed and other combat abilities.

Or the fact that someone else… playing on a slower, older machine has to pay the price by having a worse experience, just so you can go " yippy – kai-yay" on your Dolyak?

Interestingly enough, ArenaNet has already made this choice. For example, if I set my machine to render only default character models so that I can get a better framerate, the game still renders specialty items like achievement skins and legendaries.

Nevertheless, nobody seems to be against the idea of giving you the ability to toggle off mounts so you don’t have to see them and your computer doesn’t have to render them.

Tell you what. You have valid Points. Make the cosmetics-only mounts hideable, or Aestetically pleasing, Non-rediculous, and Lore respecting. And I am fine with it.

As to speed boost mounts, you still have not addressed the most important problem. If you have any speed boost NOT balanced with pre-existing speed boost, then EVERYONE has to buy and use them…Not just the ones that want them, since that will make Speed boost mounts overpowered.

And they will be demanded even if out of combat. Since someone joining a group for a dungeon, then has to get to the dungeon ASAP. If they say " I can’t get there faster.." " hey don’t you have a Mount??" What should they do…Lie? or tell the truth? if they tell the truth they get kicked out of the group.

So Speed Boost mounts have to 1. be Aesthetically pleasing. 2. Not look rediculous. 3. Not be Lore Breaking. That means NO live creatures as mounts, they must all be constructs. and 4. Be properly balanced across all other speed boost skills…so that they are not OP, and then everyone HAS to have them, even players that do not want them.

Here is a thought. Since they must be constructs…turn that into an independant quest all it’s own. You need someone to build it for you, an NPC in Mount Maelstrom that you need to get to, that then tells you the components you need.

..

Running speed is 33% currently. We’re proposing the maybe or maybe not future mounts be at that same 33%. So then, aside from having to hit a button every few seconds if you don’t have a mount, there’s no glaring disadvantage,

Constructs? Like bikes or something? I’m for it. Glad to see you’re slowly overcoming your phobia. We’re making progress.

See here is the thing for me. Just because other games have handled Mounts badly doesn’t mean they have to be done badly here. The big thing for me is… that the mounts be balanced with player speed skills, because there are players that do not want them in the game. if it is NOT balanced with speed skills, it becomes mandatory that people own and use them. This objection has to be addressed and Not just swept aside.

That is why they also have to be 1. Aesthetically pleasing, 2. Not rediculous, 3. Not Lore Breaking, therefore ( Not a beast).. and 4. Balanced across all speed skills…etc…

The second thing that convinced me it MIGHT be a good idea is…. the Possibilities for quests that would derive from it.

I would Not want to see it as a Pure gem store purchase. I would Like something like this to be the result of a quest of some type. Maybe a series of quests. Maybe you " know a guy who knows a guy" then you have to go to the guy? Then he says " we need to make a car-bew-ray-tor." or something as hilarious…" steam punk Charr auto and Bike constructors New and used constructs…just ask Grenville to see our latest models."

There is Potential…but a Lot of thought needs to be put into it Not just " I wanna buy 150 % speed boost horse for my charr."

Yeah. So exactly what I said. We’re on the same page.

I like using the broom mount as it is. Add more stuff like that no speed boost data required and you get your mount.

I don’t understand all the debate. People want mounts so bad but aren’t satisfied with getting exactly that?

I thought they just wanted to watch their character not run everywhere, just a different visual for moving around. Sounds fun to me. Anet will make the right choices.

Nerelith.7360:

As to speed boost mounts, you still have not addressed the most important problem. If you have any speed boost NOT balanced with pre-existing speed boost, then EVERYONE has to buy and use them…Not just the ones that want them, since that will make Speed boost mounts overpowered.

And they will be demanded even if out of combat. Since someone joining a group for a dungeon, then has to get to the dungeon ASAP. If they say " I can’t get there faster.." " hey don’t you have a Mount??" What should they do…Lie? or tell the truth? if they tell the truth they get kicked out of the group.

Well, in your dungeon scenario, there are always waypoints. And if the mounts are as costly or more costly to maintain, wp would be the better option.

But going with your balance point, I started pondering what I would think of mounts if I could at least keep up swiftness while mounted through conventional means. The problem here is that for some professions weapon skills are required, and we’ve talked about mounts disabling skills.

The idea being that I could get on board with purely cosmetic mounts if they didn’t kitten me by taking away swiftness.

If mounts worked like some bundles in game and got rid of weapon skills but kept utilities, I could still use kit swapping on my Engi to keep swiftness up. It’d still kitten my Ele, Guardian, and Mesmer, though, because they require weapon skills.

So what you could still access weapon skills while on your cosmetic mount, but second you enter combat, you dismount? That way I can have my cosmetic-only mount but not have my speed kitten in the process.

Alternately, what do you think of the idea presented earlier that mounts take up the elite skill slot as a method of balance?

3. Not be Lore Breaking. That means NO live creatures as mounts, they must all be constructs.

You and I still disagree on this. I think it’s been amply shown that people ride animals in Tyria. I’m completely with you on non-lore breaking, non-ridiculous animals. Dolyaks, small Treants, Devourers and Golems would make my list of easily lore-friendly, because there are examples of each of them as domesticated beasts of burden in game. I think there’s a good case that Horses could be included as well, but I know that’s a major bone of contention.

Here is a thought. Since they must be constructs…turn that into an independant quest all it’s own. You need someone to build it for you, an NPC in Mount Maelstrom that you need to get to, that then tells you the components you need.

I love this idea. I bet other mount advocates would as well. We need more of this kind of earned-in-game activity.

I wouldn’t hold my breath, though, based on ArenaNet’s track record so far. It’s more likely that we’d see them as LS rewards, gem-store items, achievement rewards, or reward for content that’s already there (zone complete Blazeridge Steppes, woohoo). Just based on what’s happened (or not) with the precursor scavenger hunt and recently trait acquisition.

Still, it’d be great to really earn your mount in a way that is story-driven and lore-compatible. It’d make collecting them much more meaningful.

A seperate thought. The world of Tyria is One that has many different races experimenting with advanced technology…The asura and charr are obvious. But this Might be a way to flesh out those technologies.

In the real world One of the things that sped up Industry was making automobiles. A huge industry sprung up to feed it.

Might be nice to see How " steampunk" Constructed mounts differ from Asuran " experimental" Constructs might look…How the differing methods of constructing them shape up.

Have all the races have a different way to construct mounts maybe? each based on the theme of the race. So people have differing options for their constructed mounts.

Sylvari could have theirs be based on Bio-engineering… they need to have some plant grow it or something, so you need to gather different seeds from different trees and plants In different areas of Tyria or something.

See this for me…would make it worth dev time and resources, since it elevates the desire for mounts above " fluff" and makes it. An expanded part of game play. Maybe if it is Involved enough it can be faster than most ask… because since it will take effort… effort should be rewarded… I can see a speed boost coming of it.

But if it is just gonna be dropped On the gem store, then I feel it needs to either be cosmetics Only, or … player run speed.

Gibson.4036:

Still, that doesn’t provide a good foundation for showing that it will happen with mounts, and that a 33% speed boost mount will inevitably slide down the slippery slope to flying mounts.

Says a person who already within few posts “slipped” from purely cosmetic mounts to 33% buff speed as a given.

Thread is still going.

“pro-mount” side still hasn’t given a real reason why the game should be ruined with mounts.

19 pages… with nothing but “I want it, and a speed boost”.

Sigh.

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

And you’d be right only if any body of proof had to be given at all. And as neither side has any idea how mounts would be implemented, neither side can make any legitimate argument, even stating whether or not they would enjoy it is based on nothing, or at best the works of completely different developers which do not reflect on ANets potential work at all. Therefore as neither side has any idea or evidence of how mounts would be implemented, all arguments of whether they should or should not be implemented are based on assumption and heresay and can’t go beyond that, giving neither side the opportunity to provide a body of proof, and therefore certainly not requiring either side to do so.

Good. You have just agreed with what i was saying. Since arguments of both sides are worths the same, according to you, and the number of people wanting mounts is not greater than people that do not want them, and the difficulty of implementing mounts is not zero…
You see where i am going?

Congress? That tends to be the place of people who attempt such ridiculous spin stories.

Both sides are equal, and something is being worked on, with neither side having any evidence of what or how. The last time they stated they weren’t working on mounts was two years ago, and is not reflection on what they re working on now. Your reason that pro-mount is illegitimate, illegitimizes all suggestions on these forums, which is ridiculous. Wardrobe system, account wallet, and the new deathmatch map were all taken from these forums, from suggestions where no player had any idea how or if they would be made, they just believed that ANet would do them in a way that would be enjoyable. And that is all that is required. As no one has any evidence of what they are working on, all basic suggestions to do anything at all are equal, the only thing worth less than all others would be the suggestion to do nothing, because they will be working on something. No body of proof can be provided by anyone not on the developer team, and none is needed.

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

However, were I a developer, looking at this thread, I certainly wouldn’t want to cater to a playgoup who has managed to fill fifteen pages of blindly hateful and fanatical speculations and assumptions against an idea they know absolutely nothing about. The conduct of the anti-mount crowd in this thread is sickening.

Oh, please, and the pro-mount crowd knows better how those mounts would be implemented? When they are even unable to agree what they want and for what reason?

I never said they knew better, I said their conduct was better. Developers are creating a game community along with a game, and as such the conduct of player demographics is important. And they are a lot more likely to cater to and encourage players to keep playing who want something, just because they think it will be fun, and say so plainly and kindly; than a group of players who mindlessly and hatefully attack an idea en masse like a forum-zombie-apocalypse.

Astralporing.1957:

Gibson.4036:

Still, that doesn’t provide a good foundation for showing that it will happen with mounts, and that a 33% speed boost mount will inevitably slide down the slippery slope to flying mounts.

Says a person who already within few posts “slipped” from purely cosmetic mounts to 33% buff speed as a given.

No. I started off at a 60% boost, and have, for the sake of discussion, been working my way back up the slope to 33%, and most recently, cosmetic.

I started at 60% speed boost mount years ago, when the GW2 community was discussing it before these fora even existed, though I don’t expect that you would be aware of that.

Here’s a post of mine from Guru in 2012.

I’d find some posts from here on this forum, but as we all know, the search function here is barely functional.

thaooo.5320:

Thread is still going.

“pro-mount” side still hasn’t given a real reason I agree with why the game should be ruined with mounts.

19 pages… with nothing but “I want it, and a speed boost”. and discussion about balance, toggle options, lore, cosmetic restrictions, acquisition methods

Fixed for you.

As much as you want to delegitimize those that disagree with you, we’re still managing to get in some actual conversation in between your posts.

MithranArkanere.8957:

runeblade.7514:

[…]

3. It has been discussed to death that Horse exists.

Charr ate them all. All horses left are undead, or ghosts bound to a ghostly rider.

Edge of Destiny: Logan and Caithe saw horses behind the Destroyer portal before saving Rytlock.

No, they are not dead.

The asura. All the asuras killed every single horse to stablish asura gates everywhere so they could profit.

Dusty Moon.4382:

runeblade.7514:

Nerelith.7360:

runeblade.7514:

Talk to the guy above me, he wants gw2 taking from Skyrim because “Skyrim is Game of the year… material.” Didn’t gw2 already win Game of the year?

if Skyrim or TESO is simply average, why should we take from them? If Gw2 won game of the year… why should it give up on what is clearly working? Waypoints and zero mounts.?

1. You think that Skyrim is the same as TESO? Please, just stop talking. It hurts me that I have to explain this.

TESO stands for The Elder scrolls Online. It does not stand for The Elder scroll O’skyrim, nor the Elder scrolls o’series. Both games are two different things. Made by two different companies.

What game did I say was average, what game did I say was game of the year?

Answer: TESO is average. Skyrim is game of the year.

2. ANet gives up what?

ZeniMax owns Bethesda which owns the IP surrounding ES. As a matter of fact ZeniMax also owns ID Software. So, they ARE the same company.

Skyrim was a Single player RPG, TESO is not (although it really feels like it is and grouping is nigh impossible). You cannot compare the 2.

Back OT, mounts are generally situational in GW2 as in GW1. Example the siege scorpions in EotM. Notice, you become the Scorpion (there is no heal skill or any utilities – just 3 skills only). This is due to the fact that they are weapons, not mounts. One cannot make a weapon into a utilitarian mount.

The TP system is fine as it is. Mounts would just make rendering this game even more difficult. Remember the Southsun Cove introduction? It was slow, haltingly slow but think of how it would be you if doubled the amount of people because they are all on mounts. It would make the game unplayable on older computers, which you can do now. Hence there would need to be a super optimization of the rendering engine just to put mounts in the game to keep it playable on those same older systems.

There were mobs that did ride mounts in GW1 but they were not considered separate. In fact when you killed them they just fell into one big pile and the rider did not fight off of the mount, when the mount went down. They were considered a single entity in GW1 and were rendered as such. So using those as an example of mounts in the GW universe doesn’t hold water.

1. You forget that Skyrim and TESO is not the same. So no matter how much you say that TESO is average, it doesn’t do a thing to Skyrim. Like you said, You cannot compare the two.

2. You forget that everyone and their mother having mounts will be unrealistic. Why? 1. I would assume that they will be gemshop only. 2. They would be cosmetic only. They are not needed to explore the world. 3. I would assume that it would be clunky as selecting minis or toys from the inventory. I don’t see every Tom, Jerry, and Joe having their Queen Jennah mini out while running around.

thaooo.5320:

Thread is still going.

“pro-mount” side still hasn’t given a real reason why the game should be ruined with mounts.

19 pages… with nothing but “I want it, and a speed boost”.

Sigh.

You refuse to listen.

runeblade.7514:

thaooo.5320:

Thread is still going.

“pro-mount” side still hasn’t given a real reason why the game should be ruined with mounts.

19 pages… with nothing but “I want it, and a speed boost”.

Sigh.

You refuse to listen.

No we listened, its just that we’re getting distracted by all of these informal fallacies you guys keep using.

Zacchary.6183:

runeblade.7514:

thaooo.5320:

Thread is still going.

“pro-mount” side still hasn’t given a real reason why the game should be ruined with mounts.

19 pages… with nothing but “I want it, and a speed boost”.

Sigh.

You refuse to listen.

No we listened, its just that we’re getting distracted by all of these informal fallacies you guys keep using.

It’s art, a matter of aesthetic experience, which is inherently based in emotion. Informal fallacies apply to logic.

If a player want something, just because he or she thinks it will be enjoyable to experience, so far as aesthetics and design go their point is far more valid than that of any who claim something is a poor idea simply because it has been done poorly before in a completely different environment, by completely different people, with completely different design intent and goals.

THAT is an informal fallacy, a correlative one to be exact, look it up, it’s on the page you provided. There is no logical connection to suggest that the poor work of previous designers will inherently affect ANets designs.

Conncept.7638:

If a player want something, just because he or she thinks it will be enjoyable to experience, so far as aesthetics and design go their point is far more valid than that of any who claim something is a poor idea simply because it has been done poorly before in a completely different environment, by completely different people, with completely different design intent and goals.

That’s why i usually just state that i don’t consider that a fun content at all, quite the opposite.

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

If a player want something, just because he or she thinks it will be enjoyable to experience, so far as aesthetics and design go their point is far more valid than that of any who claim something is a poor idea simply because it has been done poorly before in a completely different environment, by completely different people, with completely different design intent and goals.

That’s why i usually just state that i don’t consider that a fun content at all, quite the opposite.

And I’m perfectly fine with that, to tell the truth with how ANet has handled some certain system designs I don’t know or even particularly believe ANet would make an enjoyable mount system given they tried. But I’m not going to offhandedly, and especially maliciously, dismiss those who do think it will be enjoyable, because of that.

That’s (mainly) the problem. Emotion is irrational and will drive itself into a ditch unless logic steps in the way and says, “Hey, you are going to drive yourself into a ditch. Stop or you are going to get screwed.”

Likewise, most of these people who want mounts are entirely disregarding how mounts would affect other players. The players who are saying it is a bad idea list the reasons why while those for mounts are simply telling them “your argument is invalid” without stating why.

And like every mount thread, those who try to reason gradually realize that reason and logic isn’t going to work so they start appealing to emotion as well. Discussions and debates are worthless at this point because it boils down to “yes mounts”/“no mounts” comments.

But let me ask you this: if people wanted mounts, why don’t we see the broom or drill very often? Why isn’t anet making more of them, perhaps bigger ones at that?

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

Guardians do have skills that give speed boosts – Symbol of Swiftness (Skill 3 on Staff) – ‘Save Yourselves’ and also ‘Retreat’ all have a swiftness boon. Don’t forget swiftness stacks – so the more Guardians around, the more time you get.

Zacchary.6183:

That’s (mainly) the problem. Emotion is irrational and will drive itself into a ditch unless logic steps in the way and says, “Hey, you are going to drive yourself into a ditch. Stop or you are going to get screwed.”

Inapplicable analogy, there is no purpose to driving in to the ditch, a clear separation between road and ditch; and two clear prepredicated outcomes, one being positive and the other negative.

A better analogy would be choosing between two different forks in a road, neither of which you are familiar with, and only the knowledge that one is a better choice than the other. You may choose at random, based on your instincts, or not choose until you have more information. You can no more say that one road is better because of its similarity to another road you have driven on, than you can mounts will inherently be poorly designed because of a similarity to mounts in a game you previously played.

Zacchary.6183:

Likewise, most of these people who want mounts are entirely disregarding how mounts would affect other players. The players who are saying it is a bad idea list the reasons why while those for mounts are simply telling them “your argument is invalid” without stating why.

They are saying it’s invalid because any statement on how it would affect other players is 100% assumption. And therefore actually is invalid. Neither side has any idea how mounts would be implemented, how their implementation would affect other players, or how it would affect anything at all.

Zacchary.6183:

And like every mount thread, those who try to reason gradually realize that reason and logic isn’t going to work so they start appealing to emotion as well. Discussions and debates are worthless at this point because it boils down to “yes mounts”/“no mounts” comments.

I’ve been watching this thread all twenty pages and I have hardly seen anybody who is against mounts enter this thread without sarcasm, insults, or spam. Granted pro mount players have degenerated to that as well, but you just have to glance through the thread to see that has been at the poking, prodding, and mockery of the anti mount crowd. Most pro mount posters have made their first post with nothing but how they think mounts have been enjoyable in previous games, not helpful I know since we don’t know if any of those things would be true were GW2 to have it’s own mount system, but at least they weren’t inflammatory.

Zacchary.6183:

But let me ask you this: if people wanted mounts, why don’t we see the broom or drill very often? Why isn’t anet making more of them, perhaps bigger ones at that?

The drill has no functionality at all, it just looks neat. And I actually have it for that exact reason. The broom is the same, and you see it just as infrequently.

So I guess, we do actually know one thing about mounts, most players have no interest in them as nothing but cosmetics. But that says nothing at all about what Anet could do with mounts, only what they have done, and potentially what they shouldn’t do.

Nike.2631:

joneb.5679:

Theres no reasons not to have mounts permanent.

…Other than that mounts BREAK certain cost/benefit options already in the game. Speed buffs without cost is pure power creep. Doubly so in a game where speed is already available and priced pretty high on the utility/benefit scale.

As long as bonus speed exists through signets, weapon skills, and 6/6 rune sets, click inventory for speed without combat-ability costs is very unlikely to happen.

There is NOTHING that including mounts would break or hold back from development if just a little thought is put into it.

You can say it, but that doesn’t make it true.

I would imagine a mound would cost you effort to get. It would not be something they would just give away.

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

I’m just wondering if there’s someone with enough tech savvy who can speak to whether the game having to render and animate people completely differently depending on the viewer would be overly burdensome on either the servers or people’s computers (no idea where that kind of thing is handled).

I know we already have the system where the game can render some people as the weird, grey default profession model, so something like it already exists. But that’s just the model. All the animations stay consistent.

Should not be a huge problem. When adding mounts the server will send your client that the other guy is on a mount including some details of that mount. Don’t send that information (or ignore it) and your client will behave as if he is not on a mount.

However when you start hiding mounts then why not hide legendary?

VOLKON.1290:

Again, I’m still solidly in the “no mount” group. That being that, I don’t think a “hide mounts” option would work… would we see people floating in the air on an invisible mount? Very odd. Instead, let me add to this list a #5…

No your client just gets a location and then renders that person on that location. The location would be the same on a mount or without and so you render you correctly.

About the points. Except for the speed one (I would want the speed and in fact I might even want less Waypoints while you guys dont want mounts to effect the waypoints system).

The rest is fine by me. However Anet is clearly thinking to add combst mounts if they add mounts. So you might be out of luck it if comes to that.

I would say, combat mounts in some new WvW maps and non-combat in PvE.

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

It’s easy to dismiss anything with the idea that it begins a slippery slope into some tragic conclusion.

My slippery slope pretty much starts at where we are now and ends with all of the permanent 25% speed buffs in game now obsoleted/overshadowed by a piece of gear. I tend to think that’s pretty bad without having to sink into hysterics to try and convince others of that .

To reiterate an earlier comment – if mounts took up the elite skill slot, I’d be pretty content that a opportunity cost was being paid proportionate to the advantage gained.

It would not be obsolete because on normal PvE fights you can’t use the mount speed boost but you can use the other speed buffs.

Astralporing.1957:

Gibson.4036:

I’m just wondering if there’s someone with enough tech savvy who can speak to whether the game having to render and animate people completely differently depending on the viewer would be overly burdensome on either the servers or people’s computers (no idea where that kind of thing is handled).

There’s already a toggle that lets your client render other people differently – the generic look/culling option.

Gibson.4036:

It’s easy to dismiss anything with the idea that it begins a slippery slope into some tragic conclusion. There’s no reason why a 33% (equivalent to current swiftness) would automatically lead to a 120% speed boost mount, and no reason why it would lead beyond to flying mounts.

There is a reason. it is called all the previous mount threads. They always start with “visuals” only. It doesn’t take long when people (often the same peole that were first “content with visual only”) start asking for speed buffs. Usually they don’t stop at speed buffs either (combat advantage and stat buffs are often mentioned as well).
You can see some of it in this thread already.

I have not seen that happen a lot. Personally I am always clear from the beginning. I like mounts including speed-boost (and yes, more the the normal running speeds). Personally I even like flying mounts but while I would love to see mounts in this game I would be fine with no flying mounts (even if they made the worlds seamless.. At the current implementation flying mounts isn’t even really possible.

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

Again, another thread where everyone can argue and it will mean nothing. If Anet has a vision for mounts I am sure they will act on it or not based on their ideas. It isn’t like mounts are something Anet has never heard of. You all can argue with each other all you want. Feel free to waste your time and efforts going back and forth. In the end every post in this thread is a waste of time including my own. Have fun bickering for no reason aside from getting the last word.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Guardians do have skills that give speed boosts – Symbol of Swiftness (Skill 3 on Staff) – ‘Save Yourselves’ and also ‘Retreat’ all have a swiftness boon. Don’t forget swiftness stacks – so the more Guardians around, the more time you get.

You missed the ‘perma’ part. Most classes have a single skill that gives them speed. Guards for instance don’t. To keep up speed full time would take 2 skills, staff, and traited for it. That’s a huge commitment just for speed and/or sacrificing perks from runes to get speed. If you gave Guards perma speed from mount, they would have to get rebalanced.

Conncept.7638:

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

If a player want something, just because he or she thinks it will be enjoyable to experience, so far as aesthetics and design go their point is far more valid than that of any who claim something is a poor idea simply because it has been done poorly before in a completely different environment, by completely different people, with completely different design intent and goals.

That’s why i usually just state that i don’t consider that a fun content at all, quite the opposite.

And I’m perfectly fine with that, to tell the truth with how ANet has handled some certain system designs I don’t know or even particularly believe ANet would make an enjoyable mount system given they tried. But I’m not going to offhandedly, and especially maliciously, dismiss those who do think it will be enjoyable, because of that.

Thats why I am so much of an advocate for putting it in an expansion. Without I am afraid they will not be implemented in a fun way. Just like they did not put mini’s in, in a fun way.

Zacchary.6183:

But let me ask you this: if people wanted mounts, why don’t we see the broom or drill very often? Why isn’t anet making more of them, perhaps bigger ones at that?

Because while ‘lore’ technical it is a mount (you see a guy flying around on a broom) people don’t see it as a mound. Plus it does not have the many fun elements of mounts (like collecting them).

I do like mounts (as you have noticed by now) but am not really interested in the broom. Sure if I would ever have gold that I don’t know what to spend on the broom is somewhere on the list but nah, it does not give me the mount thing I like.