Guild Wars 2

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ace.1726:

Ember farming is exactly what GW2 needed, it promotes getting a group together to do events. What Arenanet need to do now is tweak it so that it’s more beneficial to complete the event.

Co-ordinating an event chain is way better than waypointing from champ to champ, if you removed the incentives for doing events like ember then all you are left with are waypoint farming.

I’d much rather do event chains than farming a champ rotation.

I just want to point out, we agree. The game is more fun and exciting when defeating things and working together with other players is rewarding. Champions have always been an issue in this area, and it’s why we addressed it, we’re continuing to pursue other areas in the game in upcoming releases as well.

That being said: the behavior we want is people join up together to play events, but they want to succeed those events and win them, we never want to be in a state where intentionally failing an event is more rewarding or better for players. We’re not going to take a giant hammer to champion loot, we love it and love seeing people joining together to do events. We do want to make succeeding events what the game is about. We also do want to make some events in the future even more challenging, and in return more rewarding for succeeding.

You will see changes over time to help directly encourage players to always want to try and succeed events, we don’t ever want to create conflict between players who want to progress an event chain, and those who want to fail it. It’s bad for the game and not what Gw2 is all about.

NERF HAMMER TIME FOR Champ in events. muahahahahhahha, its HAMMER TIME. hammer hammer hammer hammer!

Add better reward for completing event instead of 1.6 silver, just saying.

I hate it. Other events , especially temple events are being ignored now, and I’ve never seen such hostility towards eachother before this patch, to any1 who actually tries to complete the event…

It kitten ed me off the other day, all this champion farm because, I was working on completing the Balthazar temple event with 10 players or so. The escort to main event just started, and what few people that were doing the event, suddenly RUSHED to kill a random champion giant nearby, and event failed before it started.

…

Oh and “nobody does Grenth temple now because it doesn’t spawn champions, noob” – the answer I got when politely asking why nobody is at the temple. (which is untrue btw, it does spawn several champions but that should not be now the ONLY reason people want to do events!)

This champion farm has done more bad then good…

This champion farming does actually demonstrate how good the event scaling is though – when the event scales up it pretty much breaks escort morale events so that’s maybe something that could be looked in to.

What ANet need to do is give an incentive for completing dynamic events as well as killing champions. I’ve been able to log in for about eight hours altogether since the loot changes, and when I followd the champion train, for the first time since playing the game I felt like the loot was actually good. I was getting plenty of silver, I was getting t6 mats and the occasional core too.

I don’t envy the guy(s) responsible for trying to fix this, but surely there must be some way without “lol daily chest” since dailies just seem to be a cop out for everything – one laurel per day, one chest per world boss per day, 60 dungeon tokens per path, per day, gold reward in dungeons once per day, it just feels lazy.

CharrGirl.7896:

I hate it. Other events , especially temple events are being ignored now, and I’ve never seen such hostility towards eachother before this patch, to any1 who actually tries to complete the event…

It kitten ed me off the other day, all this champion farm because, I was working on completing the Balthazar temple event with 10 players or so. The escort to main event just started, and what few people that were doing the event, suddenly RUSHED to kill a random champion giant nearby, and event failed before it started.

…

This champion farm has done more bad then good, nerf it asap.

COF p1 elite farmer has to go somewhere you know. My idea, lock them in a map like the Queen pavilion with merchant that sell legendary. None of the loot they get are allowed on TP nor can they buy things from TP, so their stuffs stay within their bubble. POLICE STATE, muahahahahahahhahahahaha!

Nettle.9025:

Iconik.8712:

Not that difficult.

;)

http://i.imgur.com/DDiEz3h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GYHu50N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QpcDjby.jpg

Because he’s the hero Orr deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So the zerg will hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he’s not our hero. He’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Tyrian knight.

Let’s turn one of the Orrian lighthouses into an Iconiksignal. Who’s with me?

See? I AM a hero.

I attempted to take out the cauldrons by myself the other day and was interrupted by Risen. Kudos to Iconik for succeeding where I failed. I had stated to guildies that I preferred to run the Gates of Arah in its entirety and was pleasantly surprised when that objective was achieved earlier (between 11AM and 12 noon EDT). Iconik deserves a medal IMHO.

Why not just flip things around? Have it spawn a kittenload of Fire Elementals AFTER you destroy the cauldrons and Risen Knight?

xCrusadentx.2784:

I need to get in on the party crashing, this is great

The term is party pooping.

Kain Francois.4328:

Why not just flip things around? Have it spawn a kittenload of Fire Elementals AFTER you destroy the cauldrons and Risen Knight?

The problem is that people want to be doing the event constantly, and the success timer (2-3 hours til reset) is much, much longer than the failure timer (5-8 minutes). Until that changes, failure will always be preferable, as it allows the event to be replayed much more frequently. The best way to fix it would be to remove the failure state completely, and have the event always succeed after a set number of mobs are killed.

In any case, I appreciate the response Colin.

@colin

Have you ever consider instead of having event mobs not drop loot and instead bump up the rewards and after an event succeed or fail give them players a chest depending on participation and increase the treshold for what is consider participation. So in Queendales De will give 5s and a chest for loot (3 to 4 pieces of loot) but instead with no possibility of getting a level 80 exotic or rare. But a level 50+ zone will give money (5-10s)+ a chest (with 3 to 4 pieces of loot) with a high possibility of loot exotic or rare or ascended.

This will remove the incentive for intentionally failing a DE and also reduce zerg trains because players while having other players around is nice zerging an event ISN’T.

Abyssisis.3971:

feldspar.8345:

Iconik.8712:

I did a small amount of research and found that the ember event keeps the Gates of Arah event from completing to fruition? I could be wrong. If anything, I’ve HELPED the integrity of the zone. Hehe.

Exactly why these actions is heroic. Look, I wouldn’t mind the farmers constantly failing the attack on R&D, for instance, if it continually spawned champion tar elementals. That’s an out-of-the-way spot no one cares about. But Shank Anchorage is a roadblock event in the middle of a pretty important event chain: clearing the Gates of Arah. Intentionally failing it repeatedly is depriving the opportunity from other players who legitimately want to succeed and continue with the chain.

As it is, it just ends in a standoff anyway: the cauldrons may be destroyed, but that spawns a named champion, who scales too high for the cauldron destroyers to take down while the farmers hang back. The event still fails and resets shortly thereafter, but was far less profitable for the farmers. So no one gets what they want.

Actually its just being (insert colorful language), not being a hero. If those people were truly interested in completing the orrian chains/entering arah, then they wouldn’t be waste their time trolling the farming population, they would just guest to another server which isn’t as farm heavy and go about their business their. Trolling the events for hours upon hours just proves they have absolutely no intentions of completing the chain events/entering arah and that they are just being… again with the colorful language.

Or the farmers can go back to whatever server they came from. I’ve been on TC since September 3rd of last year. I like TC I have friends on TC and I’m not going to leave TC just because Farmer’s has decided to move its loot insurance HQ to my server. You all can go back to were you came from and leave my server alone. Let me complete my events so I can continue to fail to get a group to go into Arah. You guys farming the events are ruining MY fun and none of you even belong here. Go away.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ace.1726:

Ember farming is exactly what GW2 needed, it promotes getting a group together to do events. What Arenanet need to do now is tweak it so that it’s more beneficial to complete the event.

Co-ordinating an event chain is way better than waypointing from champ to champ, if you removed the incentives for doing events like ember then all you are left with are waypoint farming.

I’d much rather do event chains than farming a champ rotation.

I just want to point out, we agree. The game is more fun and exciting when defeating things and working together with other players is rewarding. Champions have always been an issue in this area, and it’s why we addressed it, we’re continuing to pursue other areas in the game in upcoming releases as well.

That being said: the behavior we want is people join up together to play events, but they want to succeed those events and win them, we never want to be in a state where intentionally failing an event is more rewarding or better for players. We’re not going to take a giant hammer to champion loot, we love it and love seeing people joining together to do events. We do want to make succeeding events what the game is about. We also do want to make some events in the future even more challenging, and in return more rewarding for succeeding.

You will see changes over time to help directly encourage players to always want to try and succeed events, we don’t ever want to create conflict between players who want to progress an event chain, and those who want to fail it. It’s bad for the game and not what Gw2 is all about.

You’ve nailed the issue perfectly. Most of the game content has been made much to easy due to wanting to make it more friendly to casuals. The few things that are hard are not worth doing because they typically have the same reward as something else that is much easier.

CharrGirl.7896:

It kitten ed me off the other day, all this champion farm because, I was working on completing the Balthazar temple event with 10 players or so. The escort to main event just started, and what few people that were doing the event, suddenly RUSHED to kill a random champion giant nearby, and event failed before it started.

Sadly, it was for the better ….you guys wouldn’t have gotten very far, Balt is broken:
http://youtu.be/BfnKq_PlXUc

They say they want to reward you guys for Events succeeding, but most of these “Main Spectacle” events they’ve Uptuned in Orr after this patch are now several degrees harder than they were last month with Rewards that aren’t keeping pace with the current Inflation rate. They’re also ignoring most of the bug reports about this area too. …It’s no wonder all the cynics choose to bandwagon onto the next Farm-of-the-Month instead. Words are nice, but so far actions have all been working AGAINST the casual legitimate players atleast as much as they’ve been levied against the abusers…

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Kain Francois.4328:

Why not just flip things around? Have it spawn a kittenload of Fire Elementals AFTER you destroy the cauldrons and Risen Knight?

The problem is that people want to be doing the event constantly, and the success timer (2-3 hours til reset) is much, much longer than the failure timer (5-8 minutes). Until that changes, failure will always be preferable, as it allows the event to be replayed much more frequently. The best way to fix it would be to remove the failure state completely, and have the event always succeed after a set number of mobs are killed.

So let’s turn things around completely: Make a similar event that only spawns after capturing Arah.

That way we have an incentive to capture and maintain Arah, while farmers could still farm.

Everyone happy.

Why don’t Anet remove the random champions and put them on the temples events chain?

vicious.5683:

Why don’t Anet remove the random champions and put them on the temples events chain?

We’ve been wondering this since Launch…. Why are most “Dynamic events” just off on their own completely detached from every event around them in most zones with a 10 minute reset? They’re not dynamic at all when they’re just always …. THERE … waiting to be repeated instantly while leaving the completers of them with zero sense of actual completion and even less rewards.

Why are some them just pure time sinks? IE: Hold this area for 10 minutes before you can actually push to the next event in the chain? If your Push fails then you have to go back to Garrison duty again for 10 more minutes?? Or worse like Balt’s Pre’s: you have to almost start over entirely b/c holding the Landing points takes 3x the effort and manpower than capturing them in the first place took?

I could go on naming a ton of other World Boss events & other Pre-events and let’s be honest here: Static Events that everyone avoids…. but if they haven’t shown the least bit of interest in our details & feedback about those this whole year (instead choosing to just make new Temporary stuff every couple weeks), then there’s no sense in dragging the point out longer

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Exploit
1. to utilize, esp. for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.
2. to take advantage of; promote.
3. to use selfishly for one’s own ends.
(source Webster’s dictionary)

I would say that this current farm meta falls into at least one of those three definitions, often times all three. I know the argument can be made that it is available for everyone to do therefore it is not selfish, and that holds true until the farm zerg berates people for attempting to actually play the game in a “normal” manner. Unless you want to make the case that you intentionally play to lose simply for the sake of losing, you can’t really argue for this not being exploitive.

Honestly, some people need to know the difference between an Exploit, and something being exploited.

Reikou.7068:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Exploit
1. to utilize, esp. for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.
2. to take advantage of; promote.
3. to use selfishly for one’s own ends.
(source Webster’s dictionary)

I would say that this current farm meta falls into at least one of those three definitions, often times all three. I know the argument can be made that it is available for everyone to do therefore it is not selfish, and that holds true until the farm zerg berates people for attempting to actually play the game in a “normal” manner. Unless you want to make the case that you intentionally play to lose simply for the sake of losing, you can’t really argue for this not being exploitive.

Honestly, some people need to know the difference between an Exploit, and something being exploited.

People need to stop cherrypicking definitions to loosely justify bad behavior in the community.

This entire argument is meaningless now. The damage has been done, and there is no way to back out of it now. It’s already been stated by others, but essentially without a massive roll back there is no way to undo it. After the past few days either you have hundreds of gold, and those the lowest you should have, or you are going to get left behind.

The reality is that at 20g an hour I’ve seen people doing this for days straight now. I wish I could have stayed on that long, but honestly GW2 isn’t that important to me. Once I have a few hundred gold available I don’t need more. Anyway back to the point, if they nerf things now it’s going to hurt newer people who didn’t jump on this fast enough. If they leave it then hopefully in a few days people will feel like I do, they have enough and there is no reason to continue the farm.

So essentially Anet has a big choice. They can completely screw people that have only managed to get 50 or so gold from this, or they can leave it and just let people slowly catch up. Without a massive gold sink added soon though things are going to continue to sky rocket.

Plus, yay for guardians being the best.

Half the people in this thread should be ashamed of themselves. Whining at first because they don’t like something. Then plotting to do something just as bad as those they are claiming are the bad people abusing something, then rejoicing when they think it’s going to get nerfed removing something a lot of people were obviously enjoying.

Your attitudes suck, they really do. Whether you feel justified about something or not, you take something that bothers you and seek to make those you perceive as the enemy feel your pain and get elated over it.

I find you worse than any farmer “exploiting” a change to the game. You take a valid concern and blow it into something so large where the only answer is to make others suffer and nerf it to the ground instead of seeking to find a common ground where everyone can enjoy the game in the style they want to.

If you’re willing to throw common decency to the wind just to get your way, I have no sympathy for you and I think you need to re-examine just who are the bad people here.

edit Just for clarification – I haven’t taken part in any champ farming so this is not me defending anything other than human decency.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ace.1726:

Ember farming is exactly what GW2 needed, it promotes getting a group together to do events. What Arenanet need to do now is tweak it so that it’s more beneficial to complete the event.

Co-ordinating an event chain is way better than waypointing from champ to champ, if you removed the incentives for doing events like ember then all you are left with are waypoint farming.

I’d much rather do event chains than farming a champ rotation.

I just want to point out, we agree. The game is more fun and exciting when defeating things and working together with other players is rewarding. Champions have always been an issue in this area, and it’s why we addressed it, we’re continuing to pursue other areas in the game in upcoming releases as well.

That being said: the behavior we want is people join up together to play events, but they want to succeed those events and win them, we never want to be in a state where intentionally failing an event is more rewarding or better for players. We’re not going to take a giant hammer to champion loot, we love it and love seeing people joining together to do events. We do want to make succeeding events what the game is about. We also do want to make some events in the future even more challenging, and in return more rewarding for succeeding.

You will see changes over time to help directly encourage players to always want to try and succeed events, we don’t ever want to create conflict between players who want to progress an event chain, and those who want to fail it. It’s bad for the game and not what Gw2 is all about.

This is pretty much what i expected to hear. I also expect a change in the fail state, as there are very few of these DE’s that have such a prosperous fail state.

What i am hoping to see however, is an increase in the “base pay” of doing DE’s across the board. The main reason i say this is there most likely is a pretty large part of the population not zerging champs or “farming”. Meaning those players will soon be washed asunder in the cost of playing GW2. Replacing a gear treadmill with an economic one can’t possibly be good long term.

It’s something people enjoy doing, but are being absolute jerks to and threatening to do things like report for botting and/or gold-scamming if they don’t get to do it.

You’ll forgive me if I don’t exactly shed a tear for their lost entertainment while they’re being toxic members of the community.

They’re behavior is really no different from someone who enjoys ruining farm trains. Both involve ruining someone else’s fun.

Full on farm on Gandara right now. Trying to complete the event, getting real bad reactions, if anyone could help that would be great

Mirta.5029:

Full on farm on Gandara right now. Trying to complete the event, getting real bad reactions, if anyone could help that would be great

What’s funny is that a good many real farmers realized a few days ago that trolls would try to cause problems so they just went to certain servers. Guesting is a huge advantage. So far it’s still going uninterrupted.

It’s really not hard for those that still want in. You need just enough to upscale, then find a few full groups that are doing well and pick a server.

Of course what does it really say about the game that to farm you have to hide from people. Now if Gw2 ever allowed open world pvp inside Orr that would be the end of the issue right there.

Poledo.3256:

Half the people in this thread should be ashamed of themselves. Whining at first because they don’t like something. Then plotting to do something just as bad as those they are claiming are the bad people abusing something, then rejoicing when they think it’s going to get nerfed removing something a lot of people were obviously enjoying.

Your attitudes suck, they really do. Whether you feel justified about something or not, you take something that bothers you and seek to make those you perceive as the enemy feel your pain and get elated over it.

I find you worse than any farmer “exploiting” a change to the game. You take a valid concern and blow it into something so large where the only answer is to make others suffer and nerf it to the ground instead of seeking to find a common ground where everyone can enjoy the game in the style they want to.

If you’re willing to throw common decency to the wind just to get your way, I have no sympathy for you and I think you need to re-examine just who are the bad people here.

edit Just for clarification – I haven’t taken part in any champ farming so this is not me defending anything other than human decency.

Could not agree more.

You know, the Arah waypoint isn’t contested as a result of this farm, so I don’t see the problem. I can access Arah fine while the embers are up.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

What’s funny is that a good many real farmers realized a few days ago that trolls would try to cause problems so they just went to certain servers. Guesting is a huge advantage. So far it’s still going uninterrupted.

It’s really not hard for those that still want in. You need just enough to upscale, then find a few full groups that are doing well and pick a server.

Of course what does it really say about the game that to farm you have to hide from people. Now if Gw2 ever allowed open world pvp inside Orr that would be the end of the issue right there.

Or you could play the game as intended and farm in the spots actually made for farming, like I don’t know – the pavilion. Then there’s champ trains with actually completing the events.
I’m apparently going on some sort of reddit wall of shame for trying to complete an event. I don’t care much, because focusing on a clear goal like bursting down the pods and then the champion is kind of fun, impossible alone, but kind of fun.

Mirta.5029:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

What’s funny is that a good many real farmers realized a few days ago that trolls would try to cause problems so they just went to certain servers. Guesting is a huge advantage. So far it’s still going uninterrupted.

It’s really not hard for those that still want in. You need just enough to upscale, then find a few full groups that are doing well and pick a server.

Of course what does it really say about the game that to farm you have to hide from people. Now if Gw2 ever allowed open world pvp inside Orr that would be the end of the issue right there.

Or you could play the game as intended and farm in the spots actually made for farming, like I don’t know – the pavilion. Then there’s champ trains with actually completing the events.
I’m apparently going on some sort of reddit wall of shame for trying to complete an event. I don’t care much, because focusing on a clear goal like bursting down the pods and then the champion is kind of fun, impossible alone, but kind of fun.

It’s only “impossible alone” if you’ve managed to make people angry and they stay around to keep things upscaled without helping. So I guess the question is, what did you do to make that many people angry? If you did, why are you doing it? Is it so you can do a dungeon, wait no that isn’t it. So why exactly would you do it, for the rewards? Nope, they are better for not completing it. I would like to know exactly.

Or you could play the game as intended

Do you know what was intended? I would base Anets intent off that manifesto piece, and guess what if that’s the case then none of what they’ve been doing is what’s “intended”. There was supposed to be no need for grind, yet there is. That’s exactly why people do this. Do you think they like mindlessly killing the same things for hours and hours and hours and hours? No, I’ve yet to meet a single person that enjoys it. They do it because it provides them with the gold they need so that they can actually enjoy the game. Isn’t the enjoyment of the game what was intended? If so, then you must realize there are going to be methods to reach that enjoyment.

If the current methods that fit with your idea of what was “intended” do not provided a realistic way to reach the true intent of the game, that is enjoyment, then the players must find a way to reach that. (That was such a bad sentence, but English isn’t a good language for me). Players are trying to get to what was “intended”, but in doing that they must grind.

I’m fairly certain if they made it so that completing these events provided similar rewards as farming them, then yes people would happily complete the event. That’s just not even close to the case right now, and without some type of massive overhaul of the entire DE system it will never be the case.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

It’s only “impossible alone” if you’ve managed to make people angry and they stay around to keep things upscaled without helping. So I guess the question is, what did you do to make that many people angry? If you did, why are you doing it? Is it so you can do a dungeon, wait no that isn’t it. So why exactly would you do it, for the rewards? Nope, they are better for not completing it. I would like to know exactly.

A person staying silent and trying to complete it is enough to upset those people. I’m having a nice chat with them though. It’s kind of fun. I ask them questions, then they ask me questions.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Do you know what was intended? I would base Anets intent off that manifesto piece, and guess what if that’s the case then none of what they’ve been doing is what’s “intended”. There was supposed to be no need for grind, yet there is. That’s exactly why people do this. Do you think they like mindlessly killing the same things for hours and hours and hours and hours? No, I’ve yet to meet a single person that enjoys it. They do it because it provides them with the gold they need so that they can actually enjoy the game. Isn’t the enjoyment of the game what was intended? If so, then you must realize there are going to be methods to reach that enjoyment.

If the current methods that fit with your idea of what was “intended” do not provided a realistic way to reach the true intent of the game, that is enjoyment, then the players must find a way to reach that. (That was such a bad sentence, but English isn’t a good language for me). Players are trying to get to what was “intended”, but in doing that they must grind.

I’m fairly certain if they made it so that completing these events provided similar rewards as farming them, then yes people would happily complete the event. That’s just not even close to the case right now, and without some type of massive overhaul of the entire DE system it will never be the case.

True that. However it’s still wrong to fail events on purpose. No matter that gives profit or not.

I do it, and have garnered a bit of attention for it because I was seeing people say “Yes! We failed! Good job all!” It’s so utterly ridiculous so I complete the event now and have even gotten a bit of a small army helping.

arjeidi.2690:

Completing events is what people should be ashamed of? No. People who intentionally fail events should be ashamed. They’ve lost all sight of the game they’re playing and just focusing on their selfishness and greed because their lives are empty and meaningless. Then they come to the forums to berate people for playing the game as its intended to be played?

Utter trash.

If your statement ended after the first two sentences I would entertain a civil discussion. You however are exactly the type of person I am talking about. You take a person or persons you know nothing about other than they are farming something and you don’t like it. So you begin the hate machine, calling them selfish and greedy and their lives are empty and meaningless.

Stop it. People have forgotten how to have a conversation to settle differences and just resort to hating the opposing side. You sir are the problem.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ace.1726:

Ember farming is exactly what GW2 needed, it promotes getting a group together to do events. What Arenanet need to do now is tweak it so that it’s more beneficial to complete the event.

Co-ordinating an event chain is way better than waypointing from champ to champ, if you removed the incentives for doing events like ember then all you are left with are waypoint farming.

I’d much rather do event chains than farming a champ rotation.

I just want to point out, we agree. The game is more fun and exciting when defeating things and working together with other players is rewarding. Champions have always been an issue in this area, and it’s why we addressed it, we’re continuing to pursue other areas in the game in upcoming releases as well.

That being said: the behavior we want is people join up together to play events, but they want to succeed those events and win them, we never want to be in a state where intentionally failing an event is more rewarding or better for players. We’re not going to take a giant hammer to champion loot, we love it and love seeing people joining together to do events. We do want to make succeeding events what the game is about. We also do want to make some events in the future even more challenging, and in return more rewarding for succeeding.

You will see changes over time to help directly encourage players to always want to try and succeed events, we don’t ever want to create conflict between players who want to progress an event chain, and those who want to fail it. It’s bad for the game and not what Gw2 is all about.

What if you add something like ’ the faster you clear it, the better the gold and karma reward’, ‘if x npcs are still standing at the end, better reward’ ya know, bonus conditions.

Serophous.9085:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ace.1726:

Ember farming is exactly what GW2 needed, it promotes getting a group together to do events. What Arenanet need to do now is tweak it so that it’s more beneficial to complete the event.

Co-ordinating an event chain is way better than waypointing from champ to champ, if you removed the incentives for doing events like ember then all you are left with are waypoint farming.

I’d much rather do event chains than farming a champ rotation.

I just want to point out, we agree. The game is more fun and exciting when defeating things and working together with other players is rewarding. Champions have always been an issue in this area, and it’s why we addressed it, we’re continuing to pursue other areas in the game in upcoming releases as well.

That being said: the behavior we want is people join up together to play events, but they want to succeed those events and win them, we never want to be in a state where intentionally failing an event is more rewarding or better for players. We’re not going to take a giant hammer to champion loot, we love it and love seeing people joining together to do events. We do want to make succeeding events what the game is about. We also do want to make some events in the future even more challenging, and in return more rewarding for succeeding.

You will see changes over time to help directly encourage players to always want to try and succeed events, we don’t ever want to create conflict between players who want to progress an event chain, and those who want to fail it. It’s bad for the game and not what Gw2 is all about.

What if you add something like ’ the faster you clear it, the better the gold and karma reward’, ‘if x npcs are still standing at the end, better reward’ ya know, bonus conditions.

Something similar to the challenge missions in GW1. There was no success state, but, the longer you were able to defend the objective, the better your rewards.

arjeidi.2690:

Completing events is what people should be ashamed of? No. People who intentionally fail events should be ashamed. They’ve lost all sight of the game they’re playing and just focusing on their selfishness and greed because their lives are empty and meaningless. Then they come to the forums to berate people for playing the game as its intended to be played?

Utter trash.

Again I must ask, because none of your kind seem to have an answer. Why do you want to complete it? There are only a few possible reasons I can see.

1) For the rewards, but the rewards for not completing it are better.
2) To open the dungeon, that’s fine I guess I can understand that.
3) To ruin the fun of other people.

Please stop this “playing the game as intended” bullkitten unless you actually want to have a discussion on what the “intent” of the game is. I’m more than happy to win that argument.

If it’s the second, I do understand. Though what happened the other day was hilariously funny. People completed it, but then no one would do the dungeon so they spent a few hours asking for a group while people laughed at them. Was that right? No, all that happened was that both sides lost out. The ones wanting the dungeon group didn’t complete it, and ended up getting humiliated. The ones that wanted to farm just switched to the triangle, much less profitable though.

I think more likely the reason people are trying to stop it is that they’ve gotten rich, and they are worried that other players will have money as well. That somehow diminishes their elite status. this whole argument boils down to ego. The rich are kitten ed that newer players might be able to catch them.

silvermember.8941:

@colin

Have you ever consider instead of having event mobs not drop loot and instead bump up the rewards and after an event succeed or fail give them players a chest depending on participation and increase the treshold for what is consider participation. So in Queendales De will give 5s and a chest for loot (3 to 4 pieces of loot) but instead with no possibility of getting a level 80 exotic or rare. But a level 50+ zone will give money (5-10s)+ a chest (with 3 to 4 pieces of loot) with a high possibility of loot exotic or rare or ascended.

This will remove the incentive for intentionally failing a DE and also reduce zerg trains because players while having other players around is nice zerging an event ISN’T.

This is a very nice idea, from the very beginning Events had very crappy rewards. Anet says they want no farming, but without farming, gold is basically impossible to get. I have played since launch and had about 40g total a few weeks ago, before cof1 nerf I did it for a few days and got another 40g, I doubled months of work in a few days. Anet either needs to KILL ALL FARMING, or buff up normal drops and rewards. I think 5s is a fair number for every event in a 1-15 zone and each zone would go up a little each time, lvl 80 zones events should give 30-40s. There would finally be a reason to do events in zones other than just to get the Exp to get a alt to 80.

Also on a side note Vets should get the old Champ loot update, for those of you who forget what that was, all champs dropped one piece of loot without fail(exept event champs) I think all Vets should drop at least one piece of loot. Whether that be armor or a weapon, mats, or w/e. but only non-event vets.

EDIT: 1s for a lvl 1 and lvl 2 event, all events past that could use a simple scale

lvl of event/2.5=Silver reward. So a lvl 15 event would give 6s, a lvl 45 would give 18s, and a lvl 80 event would give 32s. I don’t think it going to break the game econ, a simple fix to make sure it cant be zerged in high lvl zones is slap DR on it, HOWEVER, Leave the minimum reward of any event 1/3 of its max, so assuming I stay in a huge zerg and I hit DR when I do a lvl 80 event I would get 10s 66c. Still good money but not nearly as good as 32s.

Hevosin.9187:

silvermember.8941:

@colin

Have you ever consider instead of having event mobs not drop loot and instead bump up the rewards and after an event succeed or fail give them players a chest depending on participation and increase the treshold for what is consider participation. So in Queendales De will give 5s and a chest for loot (3 to 4 pieces of loot) but instead with no possibility of getting a level 80 exotic or rare. But a level 50+ zone will give money (5-10s)+ a chest (with 3 to 4 pieces of loot) with a high possibility of loot exotic or rare or ascended.

This will remove the incentive for intentionally failing a DE and also reduce zerg trains because players while having other players around is nice zerging an event ISN’T.

This is a very nice idea, from the very beginning Events had very crappy rewards. Anet says they want no farming, but without farming, gold is basically impossible to get. I have played since launch and had about 40g total a few weeks ago, before cof1 nerf I did it for a few days and got another 40g, I doubled months of work in a few days. Anet either needs to KILL ALL FARMING, or buff up normal drops and rewards. I think 5s is a fair number for every event in a 1-15 zone and each zone would go up a little each time, lvl 80 zones events should give 30-40s. There would finally be a reason to do events in zones other than just to get the Exp to get a alt to 80.

Also on a side note Vets should get the old Champ loot update, for those of you who forget what that was, all champs dropped one piece of loot without fail(exept event champs) I think all Vets should drop at least one piece of loot. Whether that be armor or a weapon, mats, or w/e. but only non-event vets.

EDIT: 1s for a lvl 1 and lvl 2 event, all events past that could use a simple scale

lvl of event/2.5=Silver reward. So a lvl 15 event would give 6s, a lvl 45 would give 18s, and a lvl 80 event would give 32s. I don’t think it going to break the game econ, a simple fix to make sure it cant be zerged in high lvl zones is slap DR on it, HOWEVER, Leave the minimum reward of any event 1/3 of its max, so assuming I stay in a huge zerg and I did DR when I do a lvl 80 event I would get 10s 66c. Still good money but not nearly as good as 32s.

The only problem there is you end up with the same setup you have now.

Basically the reason they updated the champs is because no one was doing any of them before. Entire zones were just completely ignored because the rewards were just complete crap. They changed things to get people interested in doing them again, instead people found that it was easier to farm champs.

Essentially the problem isn’t casual vs farmers, it’s “the easiest way to enjoy the game”. If that’s farming your fingers off on champs for days straight, people will do it. Until Anet figures out what they want, and then makes THAT the most optimal way players will always find a way to easily get what they want. SInce so much in this game is based off rng then what they want is usually gold.

There were changes suggested a few months after release that were just ignored. LIke make doing events in an area drop dungeon tokens for that area, or actually have karma be useful. Instead of having skins be random drops have them karma rewards that you can buy etc. There are plenty of ways they could make it work. As long as this is GW2 is based around cosmetic rewards, and those rewards are gold based nothing will change. They have to change the reward structure.

To give an example, imagine if the hard to find skins cost 50k karma each and were soul bound. Then what do people need gold for? If you make the things people are farming for available in ways that are rewarded by what Anet claims they want then that fixes the system.

@Colin: The whole of the game is to get other people together and have fun. Not just the Ember Farm. It’s just that this particular spot is so overloaded with farmers, many from other servers, that the few who actually want to complete so they can move on (trolls not included) simply can’t unless they guest to other servers in some cases.

If they guest, then yes, they can complete the event and go on, but there are issues with influence and guild things (small, I know,) that some people don’t want to give up.

Add to that, the fact that so many of our community attack the poor sots who want to finish makes it simply “not fun” for some people. I am ashamed of the way some people treat legitimate “questers.”

This is the gist of the thread, although it seems to have been a bit derailed with the pros and cons of farming.

Nobody is saying that farming is a bad thing (ok, well, maybe some people are.) Some of us are just saying that farming shouldn’t be allowed to get in the way of legitimate progression.

aside to the trolls who are farming the farmers: What you’re doing is no better than anyone else involved. Trolling is trolling.

Hevosin.9187:

silvermember.8941:

@colin

Have you ever consider instead of having event mobs not drop loot and instead bump up the rewards and after an event succeed or fail give them players a chest depending on participation and increase the treshold for what is consider participation. So in Queendales De will give 5s and a chest for loot (3 to 4 pieces of loot) but instead with no possibility of getting a level 80 exotic or rare. But a level 50+ zone will give money (5-10s)+ a chest (with 3 to 4 pieces of loot) with a high possibility of loot exotic or rare or ascended.

This will remove the incentive for intentionally failing a DE and also reduce zerg trains because players while having other players around is nice zerging an event ISN’T.

This is a very nice idea, from the very beginning Events had very crappy rewards. Anet says they want no farming, but without farming, gold is basically impossible to get. I have played since launch and had about 40g total a few weeks ago, before cof1 nerf I did it for a few days and got another 40g, I doubled months of work in a few days. Anet either needs to KILL ALL FARMING, or buff up normal drops and rewards. I think 5s is a fair number for every event in a 1-15 zone and each zone would go up a little each time, lvl 80 zones events should give 30-40s. There would finally be a reason to do events in zones other than just to get the Exp to get a alt to 80.

Also on a side note Vets should get the old Champ loot update, for those of you who forget what that was, all champs dropped one piece of loot without fail(exept event champs) I think all Vets should drop at least one piece of loot. Whether that be armor or a weapon, mats, or w/e. but only non-event vets.

EDIT: 1s for a lvl 1 and lvl 2 event, all events past that could use a simple scale

lvl of event/2.5=Silver reward. So a lvl 15 event would give 6s, a lvl 45 would give 18s, and a lvl 80 event would give 32s. I don’t think it going to break the game econ, a simple fix to make sure it cant be zerged in high lvl zones is slap DR on it, HOWEVER, Leave the minimum reward of any event 1/3 of its max, so assuming I stay in a huge zerg and I did DR when I do a lvl 80 event I would get 10s 66c. Still good money but not nearly as good as 32s.

40s is way too high for reward it will cause things to inflate too fast. They are some players that will always farm that is unavoidable, but it will give incentive to those that enjoy DE to do more DE. Giving 40s will lead to players chaining events and that is not what should be happening. The goal of my system is to make it rewarding enough for people to do but not high enough to cause a huge spike.

Your plan will certain will certainly increase the rate too fast and devalue goal because now your 40g you have is going to be worth less far less than before in short time.

You guys know how there are some DE’s that allow access to special items upon completion?

Like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Seed_Pod

and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ogre_pet_whistle

I actually think it would be pretty cool if they expand on that. Not saying they all have to be combat related, some could be silly/cool looking animation items.

“Using this item will summon a ghostly lantern that will follow you for 30min”

I think they should remove all the items and gold gained from orr and restart everyone from the last patch. That would be fair.

Poledo.3256:

Half the people in this thread should be ashamed of themselves. Whining at first because they don’t like something. Then plotting to do something just as bad as those they are claiming are the bad people abusing something, then rejoicing when they think it’s going to get nerfed removing something a lot of people were obviously enjoying.

Your attitudes suck, they really do. Whether you feel justified about something or not, you take something that bothers you and seek to make those you perceive as the enemy feel your pain and get elated over it.

I find you worse than any farmer “exploiting” a change to the game. You take a valid concern and blow it into something so large where the only answer is to make others suffer and nerf it to the ground instead of seeking to find a common ground where everyone can enjoy the game in the style they want to.

If you’re willing to throw common decency to the wind just to get your way, I have no sympathy for you and I think you need to re-examine just who are the bad people here.

edit Just for clarification – I haven’t taken part in any champ farming so this is not me defending anything other than human decency.

I have taken part in the farming just recently. I could’nt agree more with every word you posted. They were not spending 8 hours a day trying to complete that event before the changes so the only thing that has changed is now they have 50 people in one place that they can purposefully egg on and try to upset. Some of the people say things on the farm side of the fence out of anger that is wrong but the “saviors” are so very far from being innocent in it aswell. The only reason I can see that they do this is that they truly enjoy trolling. I just wish they would be honest in that fact instead of all these “excuses” for what they are doing.

If I stand infront of a bunch of people who are different at me and then try my best to upset them I would have no right to blame them for handing my butt to me afterwards imo. On a constructive note chains like what used to be run in straights is the only real fix. A chain with small downtime, fun to run and rewarding. Trolls cant wreck it and it is more rewarding doing it in groups and with more people. 2 hours vrs 8 minutes, it is’nt that hard to see why people would rather fail it.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Again I must ask, because none of your kind seem to have an answer. Why do you want to complete it? There are only a few possible reasons I can see.

I can respond to this one –
because being rewarded for failing again and again and again and being rewarded more than in other parts of the game on top of that seems wrong.
Because if you want to farm there are legit places to do so. There are people running champ trains and completing the events and then there are people at the pavilion, why do you have to resort to failing an event?
Because it offers a bad image to new players. What happens when you try to complete what clearly is an objective on the right side of your screen? “What kind of kitten kitten kitten! Kitten you! All block him and post his pictures on reddit to shame him”, “You must be a 40 year old virgin attending fat camp” “All report the person over there for botting, you’ll lose your account you kitten, I hope you’re happy!”, “I really hope that you’ll die in irl, you piece of trash, you don’t deserve life”.
Because it does break regular gameplay in the area. While people were farming one person said that he would like to run arah, but can not run up the stairs, so could we uncontest a wp closer for him to run, that would require people to complete an event so the response was “pay 20G and I’ll run you up or just kitten off you loser”.

Essentially failing the event feels like cheating because you’re payed more than anywhere else in the game, it ruins other peoples fun and people doing the failing thing tend to be the worst potty mouths out there. To the point that you worry about their mental health.

The way I see it with my 7 gold in bank is that they are going to kill the economy again but worse than CoF 1 ever did. I do not hate farmers but I realize that the measures they took to make thing better and diversify what player should play completely backfired. The end result will not be pretty.

The honest truth is farmers want to get rich and there is no reward for difficult content that is actually worth doing it. They say this game is causal friendly, but honestly it is worse than that. A troll actually tries to get an event done (and yes some people are just trolling). A farmer fails it to repeat the same content over and over stopping progress for those who actually need to get it done.

Considering Orr was nerfed as a farming zone we are literally taking steps backward. I like this game and all but some of this balancing is bat kitten bad.

So farmers farm on. and trolls/completers complete on. To Anet please make better balancing decisions in the future.

If people are going to do nothing but talk past eachother (just like in map chat), then this probably doesn’t need to keep getting bumped and it will eventually turn into something that gets locked like the other 2 or 3 threads about it did.

I don’t think Anet’s going to say anything more about it either. Either it will just be quietly patched out soon, or everyone will get penalized for it in some way as Smith has already confirmed that they might have overdone it slightly when it comes to currency “Supply” into the current economy.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ace.1726:

Ember farming is exactly what GW2 needed, it promotes getting a group together to do events. What Arenanet need to do now is tweak it so that it’s more beneficial to complete the event.

Co-ordinating an event chain is way better than waypointing from champ to champ, if you removed the incentives for doing events like ember then all you are left with are waypoint farming.

I’d much rather do event chains than farming a champ rotation.

Seems to me Anet has gotten a bit soft in dealing with cheaters. At the beginning of the game they (later temporarily) laid down the ban hammer for people using a karma merchant to get weapons for free to forge them. Now it seems to me they are saying “We appreciate your cheating, but maybe we can bribe you with more loot to do it the right way”. Not that it matters if they don’t like what you say they’ll just throw your posts away without explaining why.

I just want to point out, we agree. The game is more fun and exciting when defeating things and working together with other players is rewarding. Champions have always been an issue in this area, and it’s why we addressed it, we’re continuing to pursue other areas in the game in upcoming releases as well.

That being said: the behavior we want is people join up together to play events, but they want to succeed those events and win them, we never want to be in a state where intentionally failing an event is more rewarding or better for players. We’re not going to take a giant hammer to champion loot, we love it and love seeing people joining together to do events. We do want to make succeeding events what the game is about. We also do want to make some events in the future even more challenging, and in return more rewarding for succeeding.

You will see changes over time to help directly encourage players to always want to try and succeed events, we don’t ever want to create conflict between players who want to progress an event chain, and those who want to fail it. It’s bad for the game and not what Gw2 is all about.

Mirta.5029:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Again I must ask, because none of your kind seem to have an answer. Why do you want to complete it? There are only a few possible reasons I can see.

I can respond to this one –
because being rewarded for failing again and again and again and being rewarded more than in other parts of the game on top of that seems wrong.
Because if you want to farm there are legit places to do so. There are people running champ trains and completing the events and then there are people at the pavilion, why do you have to resort to failing an event?
Because it offers a bad image to new players. What happens when you try to complete what clearly is an objective on the right side of your screen? “What kind of kitten kitten kitten! Kitten you! All block him and post his pictures on reddit to shame him”, “You must be a 40 year old virgin attending fat camp” “All report the person over there for botting, you’ll lose your account you kitten, I hope you’re happy!”, “I really hope that you’ll die in irl, you piece of trash, you don’t deserve life”.
Because it does break regular gameplay in the area. While people were farming one person said that he would like to run arah, but can not run up the stairs, so could we uncontest a wp closer for him to run, that would require people to complete an event so the response was “pay 20G and I’ll run you up or just kitten off you loser”.

Essentially failing the event feels like cheating because you’re payed more than anywhere else in the game, it ruins other peoples fun and people doing the failing thing tend to be the worst potty mouths out there. To the point that you worry about their mental health.

I see this in the same light as a sports team/single person throwing the match because they got paid to do so. I find it morally wrong and is only being done because of greed.

I also find it utterly boring of course. Can’t fathom how people can do it hours on end.

Mirta is spot on. If you even think about success with the event for a sec, or attack the wrong target even by accident this is the kind of backlash that you get. It’s unnecessary, silly and it’s disgusting that the player base treats each other this way. You might say “this is the internet” or “deal with it” but it’s far worse than normal.

I shot the boss at the embers once after someone else had completed it and got more than 3 whispers from different gamers calling me all sorts of names along with wishes of death and dismemberment. That is not acceptable. I hope Anet does look into those reports seriously.

Normally I’d also say its only a few bad apples. But it simply isn’t. Greed has taken over in mass force and it’s disturbing to see.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Again I must ask, because none of your kind seem to have an answer. Why do you want to complete it? There are only a few possible reasons I can see.

Very easy: The chain event is epic, last boss too; specially (im saying specially) the less people that are against him (i have three maned it, of course not avarage players).

Iconik.8712:

I do it, and have garnered a bit of attention for it because I was seeing people say “Yes! We failed! Good job all!” It’s so utterly ridiculous so I complete the event now and have even gotten a bit of a small army helping.

So you had no other reason to grief a group of people than you disagreed with them.

You are not a hero and certainly no savior. But you do admit to disrupting other players game play simply because you didn’t like what they were doing and thought it was great fun and would get attention for yourself.

I believe Anet should take a hard look at people doing these things, documenting them and posting pictures of their “good deeds”. Really what I am saying is you need a few days in time out for being disruptive to a large number of players.

Maybe it would give you time to wrap your head around the fact that the world does not revolve around you and your whims.