Guild Wars 2

Music Monday, Cantha track: Age of the Dragon.

@OP

First of all, long, LONG years passed storywise since GW1. Divinity’s Reach changed, every city changes even in the real world, each year. We are talking about a much bigger gap between the two eras of GW1 and GW2.

On the other hand, of course it is a design decision backed up by story. And I couldn’t be happier than now I am that asian terrirories are not returning (hopefully ever). Hell I don’t want a silkroad online style city / villages / complete areas. I refuse to set foot there with my sylvari, ever, and definitly not buying any expansion themed to asian stuff. Don’t misunderstood me, I like all the spiritualism and martial arts, but it’s not for the world of Guild Wars 2 (TWO, I said, before “you know nothing John Snow” GW1 fans scream at me).

With the way they’ve handled Tyria, at this point I’d rather them not touch Cantha.

I doubt anyone would recognize it.

This has probably been here before, but it’s still funny. Apparently “they” don’t think Cantha was beautiful. Or has it been completely removed from Guild Wars 2 lore?

Traveller.7496:

This has probably been here before, but it’s still funny. Apparently “they” don’t think Cantha was beautiful. Or has it been completely removed from Guild Wars 2 lore?

Keep in mind that most top devs, like Ree and Jeff, were involved in Elona and especially Tyria(through EotN), and had almost nothing to do with Cantha. They have little attachment to it.

I say we start some kind of petition to make NCSoft aware of the demand for Cantha and an expansion, so that they give Anet the funding to develop it.

I’ll be the first one to sign it.

Xenon.4537:

I say we start some kind of petition to make NCSoft aware of the demand for Cantha and an expansion, so that they give Anet the funding to develop it.

sill doesn’t change the view of Korea and China…if they don’t approve then a petition really isn’t gonna do any good.

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

I say we start some kind of petition to make NCSoft aware of the demand for Cantha and an expansion, so that they give Anet the funding to develop it.

sill doesn’t change the view of Korea and China…if they don’t approve then a petition really isn’t gonna do any good.

I’m still unclear why exactly they have an issue with Cantha. “They don’t like the mixed culture” is just not a strong argument on it’s own. If artists had to consider whether or not to do something based on whether someone dislikes it, there would be no art. Anet shouldn’t let potential dislike stop them from creating new things.

But Anet is owned by NCSoft, which is a Korean company. If the parent company tells their subsidiary not to do something, who are they to not follow?

All we know is that Anet had plans to release Cantha, or have Cantha lore be a part of GW2 from the beginning, but something caused the change. In fact, the Cantha district of Divinity’s Reach was there until the last second. Screencaps of what the area was supposed to look like still exist. The “Great Collapse” was the result of having to destroy that part of the map, since they didn’t have time to redo that section before official launch.

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

I say we start some kind of petition to make NCSoft aware of the demand for Cantha and an expansion, so that they give Anet the funding to develop it.

sill doesn’t change the view of Korea and China…if they don’t approve then a petition really isn’t gonna do any good.

Cantha still exists in GW1…………….. If Korea and China were so distraught with Cantha then wouldn’t Anet delete cantha from GW1??? Thats the kind of logic I am getting out of you.

It is not like Anet would start WWIII if they mixed Asian cultures together. If that happens then I would laugh my kitten off. I would laugh even harder if countries involved tried to sue Anet.

People get easily offended these days even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them. Seriously what does Cantha have to do with Korea or China???? Absolutely nothing at all.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

I say we start some kind of petition to make NCSoft aware of the demand for Cantha and an expansion, so that they give Anet the funding to develop it.

sill doesn’t change the view of Korea and China…if they don’t approve then a petition really isn’t gonna do any good.

Cantha still exists in GW1…………….. If Korea and China were so distraught with Cantha then wouldn’t Anet delete cantha from GW1??? Thats the kind of logic I am getting out of you.

It is not like Anet would start WWIII if they mixed Asian cultures together. If that happens then I would laugh my kitten off. I would laugh even harder if countries involved tried to sue Anet.

People get easily offended these days even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them. Seriously what does Cantha have to do with Korea of China???? Absolutely nothing at all.

This^

There’s no sane reason to bend over to the will of some upset group of people that have a personal problem with the aesthetics of a video game.

Think of all the games PETA would have shut down for depicting bad things happening to animals. What would our selection be like if devs had to listen to religious groups? Not a single game involving magic would exist.

I always thought that cantha was especially based on Japan

The city district reminds me more of Hong Kong.

Please please oh please add Cantha into the guild wars 2 world this year, it looked really amazing in guild wars 1 and it’s a crime not to have it in guild wars 2.

Any updates on where the devs stand on this yet? We’re in the dark here and would love some answers or clues as to if you may add Cantha to the game

The Tengu Wall music playing in Maguuma Jungle. Surely a hint!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/tengu

Tengu confirmed.

#CanthaLives.

Sounds like speculation. Things can change very fast within a company. If it is true I think Anet should drop NCsoft and go with a different distributor.

I personally would love to have Cantha return. I can only imagine the environment would be gorgeous. It was pretty in GW1, would be fantastic with GW2. Cantha has so much potential for content. Since the new Emperor Usoku went all xenophobic, a living story centered around getting to Cantha either by ship or maybe an underwater expedition and accidently awakening the ocean dragon. Or maybe trying to establish negotiation with the Emperor on opening their borders or something would sound like so much fun! Or maybe start a coup with the remaining Luxons/Kurzicks or Tengu on overthrowing the emperor and putting a nicer one on the throne.

Where was it actually confirmed that the reason the Canthan district got removed was NCSoft/China/Korea were offended by it? That’s been the commonly held belief, but I don’t think I’ve actually seen an official source cited. I’ve also heard that the reason it was scrapped was that it was simply “poorly implemented” which could mean any number of things.

Xenon.4537:

Where was it actually confirmed that the reason the Canthan district got removed was NCSoft/China/Korea were offended by it? That’s been the commonly held belief, but I don’t think I’ve actually seen an official source cited. I’ve also heard that the reason it was scrapped was that it was simply “poorly implemented” which could mean any number of things.

Here was something I found about it. Didn’t read it all, but it pertains to the thread.

You should all remember this music

Absolutely love those flutes (I think) in the beginning.

Maybe the tengu race comes with new exp? Like Cantha ?http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tsuru_Whitewing

larv.3456:

Some news? http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/8293/Guild-Wars-2-An-Expansion-in-2015.html

If a full expansion comes out, it’s probably going to be Elona first. It’s closer, it doesn’t seem like NCSoft would have a problem with it, there’s pretty much a portal to the crystal desert waiting to happen near Ebonhawke—all we need is to go fight the dragon out there and in to Elona we go to deal with Palawa Joko. If anything, tho, this probably refers to the new maps that are probably going to open up in the Maguuman Jungle area thanks to the current Living World storyline.

It would just be nice to have some new places to explore

This should stay on top.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

I say we start some kind of petition to make NCSoft aware of the demand for Cantha and an expansion, so that they give Anet the funding to develop it.

sill doesn’t change the view of Korea and China…if they don’t approve then a petition really isn’t gonna do any good.

Cantha still exists in GW1…………….. If Korea and China were so distraught with Cantha then wouldn’t Anet delete cantha from GW1??? Thats the kind of logic I am getting out of you.

It is not like Anet would start WWIII if they mixed Asian cultures together. If that happens then I would laugh my kitten off. I would laugh even harder if countries involved tried to sue Anet.

People get easily offended these days even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them. Seriously what does Cantha have to do with Korea or China???? Absolutely nothing at all.

hey, don’t blame me, all i do is repeat what Anet stated…..

Hello everyone! I read a lot about this topic lately, and I have to say: a lot of people want the real deal back! I don’t understand what happened so that these two continents will probably be washed away from the game. I personnally know about ten people who actually stopped playing Guild Wars 2 until Cantha or Elona would come out. ANet, I come to you in all humility: I love Guild Wars 2, really, but please stop inventing silly excuses to not continue the story of aproximatively two thirds of the material you previously created – a whole rich and appealing world…! So please stand your ground before NCSoft and don’t become it’s slave…! Just trying to fit your game on one not small – but certainly not so big – map doesn’t make it good, but rather confusing and with a bittersweet taste – and maybe also ironically unfinished; it’s like putting fifty terrific different ingrédients – salty, bitter and sweet – in one pie: everything’s there, but the taste’s not that good in the end. So please explore the potential of Guild Wars and make more pies, each having it’s particular flavour – meaning a pluricultural experience, with different continents, different plots and other different (and for most already existing) ethnies – they could be linked by plots that converge, like in Guild Wars 1. Please make us travel far…! Honnestly, as a veteran player of Guild Wars 1, paying for the second game and buying all kind of stuff from the Gem Store in order to support the creation of the rest of the world, and also to be proud and pumped to re-discover it in the near future, but being told at the last moment that probably this isn’t going to happen, hurts. And it also makes people grumpy and sick of the videogame market, nowadays – one which could have already and definitely fulfilled it’s role as an “Art”, if it wasn’t so much about money and profit. I know many members of ANet – if not all – whish they could go on with their ideas and explore the rest of the world of Guild Wars, but if you are unable to stand your ground and convince your “boss” (which, by the way, may be great for you, but not so much for us, the players) to let you do it, you will eventually loose all the credibility you have towards your community and make your own supporters leave for another general who would be more able to lead them to a coherent conquest. That’s my opinion. I really love what you did until now, and also the potential you still have in stock, but please ANet, use it at it’s fullness… after all, Sparta wasn’t kept by it’s people without a fight. Be the leader; we’ll follow. Make it through. Make it true. Give us the promised land(s)…

You really have a strange idea on how publisher/developer arrangements work.

There IS no “standing their ground.” If NCSoft said, “This is insulting, start over” then Arena.net either starts over, or their games NEVER GET PUBLISHED.

You don’t “stand your ground” with your publisher. You do what they say. Period. They hold ALL the power if they choose to wield it.

chemiclord.3978:

You really have a strange idea on how publisher/developer arrangements work.

There IS no “standing their ground.” If NCSoft said, “This is insulting, start over” then Arena.net either starts over, or their games NEVER GET PUBLISHED.

You don’t “stand your ground” with your publisher. You do what they say. Period. They hold ALL the power if they choose to wield it.

not exactly true, but they arent just the publisher, they also own the company

On Elona:
Elona was a wonderful service to those of us here with a Middle Eastern/North African cultural background. In fact, I would go so far to say it is a shining example that does our culture justice.

Consider this: In a majority other games today, whenever the Middle East and North Africa are represented, they are usually war torn and poor, caught amidst a conflict involving radical Islamic insurgents. Do you know how it feels to see my people represented like that game, after game, after game, after game? It is an offensive stereotype, and I am getting tired seeing it in every major military shooter made today.

The MENA (Middle-Eastern & North African) region is full of rich culture and deep folklore. Everything from the Elon river mirroring the real life Nile River, to the beautiful palaces of Vabbi, and PALAWA JOKO being one of the most interesting takes on a Pharaoh in awhile. Besides, who could forget the lovable Dervish profession!? I really have to say ArenaNet really did their research on our culture, and did us justice.

ArenaNet, you appealed to the MENA culture without resorting to stereotypes. That is a huge accomplishment, and that is why it is important you consider Elona for the future of Guild Wars 2.

Thanks,
Lover of Elona

I don’t care if We got Elona Or Cantha first. But I do want to see then both in Guild Wars 2

Kain Francois.4328:

On Elona:

Indeed. The only presence MENA regularly gets in fantasy is as an exotic (i.e. non-central) desert setting with turbaned camel herders adhering to vaguely Islamic beliefs.
Nightfall is sincerely the only fantasy video game that I can think of that made a believable, non-clichéd rendition of MENA and African culture. It was a fresh splash.
Sigh, I wish we got another company with the creative force of ANet circa mid-00s.

If an expansion releases, a new area will eventually do and I have no doubt that an exapsnion will be coming soon enough to re-start the commercial hype.

However, what areas are gonna be opened? Tyria isn’t fully even fully available yet, however will people happy if the expansion offered a fully opened Tyria? Is Anet gonna open Tyria with LS2 before starting in a new area? or are they gonna save these places for later to make people visit Tyria again, instead of leaving it behind for a new continent, possibly.

Just read/watched some materials on GW lore. And I got the feeling that GW1 was way better than GW2 in terms of story/lore. I wish GW2 got expansions like GW1 did, i’d pay for that without hesitation.

Venomge.7142:

Just read/watched some materials on GW lore. And I got the feeling that GW1 was way better than GW2 in terms of story/lore. I wish GW2 got expansions like GW1 did, i’d pay for that without hesitation.

GW1 had some good and some bad things storywise. Like GW2 it suffered somewhat from the ‘main NPC’ being useless/annoying problem (Rurik, Togo, Kormir). But it was designed good. Doing the story was the main part of your progression when leveling up and there were main quests in between the missions that connected events and areas.

I liked the Canthan areas/missions too, although I think it was kinda in a hit or miss fashion in the playerbase.

Lore-wise there’s still plenty to do in Cantha so going back there would be +1 from me.

GuildWars is one of the few MMOs for me that actually has worlds worth exploring, where I actually take time to enjoy the scenery. I remember getting both Factions and Nightfall they were such a breath of fresh air to the game. Even if you didn’t love it, it was something different. They could even make a new continent or have one on the nearby planet that humans supposedly came from.

TLDR?

Me want Cantha and Elona!

I bought Factions before any other Guild Wars campaign, and after over 6 years of playing Guild Wars 1 and 2 I still think that Cantha is the best looking region ever made for a game. BRING CANTHA BACK!

naptimeninja.4563:

GuildWars is one of the few MMOs for me that actually has worlds worth exploring, where I actually take time to enjoy the scenery. I remember getting both Factions and Nightfall they were such a breath of fresh air to the game. Even if you didn’t love it, it was something different. They could even make a new continent or have one on the nearby planet that humans supposedly came from.

TLDR?

Me want Cantha and Elona!

For me, I sincerely hate half the quests in GW1.

I have nightmares of getting a quest that I gotta travel 3 giant areas of the map, come back to town, and get a new quest going past the 3 giant areas of the map. It’s tedious.

Honestly the only area of Factions I really liked was Shing Jea….

Echovald was kind of interesting for the whole giant trees and tree houses thing, but then I realized I couldn’t go IN to any of those awesome treehouses.

The Jade Sea annoyed me for how bland it looked after you’d been there for a while. The city itself was a pain to navigate, and gave you a giant middle finger for some of the quests in the Undercity.

Cantha <3

#15chars

Wtb expansion for this.

Omne.4603:

Wtb expansion for this.

Ok, realpolitik time:

While to many outside of eastern Asian the region looks like one big blob of dirt and a few island occupied by a lot of people with epicanthic eye-folds, the region is actually filed with a complex array of cultures and ethnicities that on the whole hate each other and have been killing each other for thousands of years right up to and including some massive atrocities in the last century. Seriously, ask the man on the street in Osaka and Shanghai about their opposite number in the other city and odds are you’ll hear things that would make the klu klux klan blush. During my stay in Japan I had some of the most pleasant folks imaginable go absolutely feral over things as small as casting a Chinese-descended actor to play a nominally Japanese-American character. We’re talking Hollywood day-to-day business as usual taken as a call for lynch mobs. Ugly.

Now introduce a bunch of dudes and dudettes from the American west coast who have a fondness for Asian architecture/visual stylings and maybe a little understanding of feudal cultures but little or no grounding in the actual historical events of the region. They roll out a setting featuring a mash-up of cultural cues about as insensitive and inappropriate as decorating a classical synagogue with swastikas to people who grew up in the cultures being mangled.

It kittened some people off. And it should. Rather than put a historian on staff to spot check a setting that’s largely unworkable from the ground up they have wisely decided to just NOT put their foot in that particular wolf-trap again after getting out of it once already by gnawing that limb off.

Nike.2631:

Omne.4603:

Wtb expansion for this.

Ok, realpolitik time:

While to many outside of eastern Asian the region looks like one big blob of dirt and a few island occupied by a lot of people with epicanthic eye-folds, the region is actually filed with a complex array of cultures and ethnicities that on the whole hate each other and have been killing each other for thousands of years right up to and including some massive atrocities in the last century. Seriously, ask the man on the street in Osaka and Shanghai about their opposite number in the other city and odds are you’ll hear things that would make the klu klux klan blush. During my stay in Japan I had some of the most pleasant folks imaginable go absolutely feral over things as small as casting a Chinese-descended actor to play a nominally Japanese-American character. We’re talking Hollywood day-to-day business as usual taken as a call for lynch mobs. Ugly.

Now introduce a bunch of dudes and dudettes from the American west coast who have a fondness for Asian architecture/visual stylings and maybe a little understanding of feudal cultures but little or no grounding in the actual historical events of the region. They roll out a setting featuring a mash-up of cultural cues about as insensitive and inappropriate as decorating a classical synagogue with swastikas to people who grew up in the cultures being mangled.

It kittened some people off. And it should. Rather than put a historian on staff to spot check a setting that’s largely unworkable from the ground up they have wisely decided to just NOT put their foot in that particular wolf-trap again after getting out of it once already by gnawing that limb off.

WTB expansion for this.

Honestly, I do too. I am bored to bloody tears with pseudo-European feudal fantasy tropes. But I also come from a much more casual and frankly homogenized culture than the ones Cantha would be raiding for parts. Combined with GW2 directly courting a market that is very, very much more familiar with the well Cantha dips it’s bucket into, and its — sadly — probably for the best AreanNet leaves it alone.

Nike.2631:

Omne.4603:

Wtb expansion for this.

Ok, realpolitik time:

While to many outside of eastern Asian the region looks like one big blob of dirt and a few island occupied by a lot of people with epicanthic eye-folds, the region is actually filed with a complex array of cultures and ethnicities that on the whole hate each other and have been killing each other for thousands of years right up to and including some massive atrocities in the last century. Seriously, ask the man on the street in Osaka and Shanghai about their opposite number in the other city and odds are you’ll hear things that would make the klu klux klan blush. During my stay in Japan I had some of the most pleasant folks imaginable go absolutely feral over things as small as casting a Chinese-descended actor to play a nominally Japanese-American character. We’re talking Hollywood day-to-day business as usual taken as a call for lynch mobs. Ugly.

Now introduce a bunch of dudes and dudettes from the American west coast who have a fondness for Asian architecture/visual stylings and maybe a little understanding of feudal cultures but little or no grounding in the actual historical events of the region. They roll out a setting featuring a mash-up of cultural cues about as insensitive and inappropriate as decorating a classical synagogue with swastikas to people who grew up in the cultures being mangled.

It kittened some people off. And it should. Rather than put a historian on staff to spot check a setting that’s largely unworkable from the ground up they have wisely decided to just NOT put their foot in that particular wolf-trap again after getting out of it once already by gnawing that limb off.

but i highly doubt blade and soul was historically accurate, and it did fine. And they definately mixed up cultures, with ninjas, kungkittenusers, magic etc.

Who made it? There tends to be a lot more patience extended to people mangling their own cultural heritage than to “outsiders” doing so .

Its also not really a question of “accuracy” so much as inadvertent, offensive juxtapositions.

This thread needs to be bumped up from time to time to remind the newer generation of the great Cantha.

Guild wars one had a lot of lore. It had a lot of unique and interesting areas. Given how much time has passed since we got to explore Cantha or Elona I would there there would be alot of changes in those areas. For those who say that the problem would exisit with creating new characters in that area as there were no char in Elona or Cantha we don’t really need to be making new toons in the expansion. I for one already have 10 at eighty. Plus two at 20 that use to do jumping puzzles.

We don’t have to follow the old format. Which at the time Anet did because the people getting factions were not guaranteed to have owned Prophecies.

Edit: Woot 2000th Post!

@Talyn

One of the neat things about the Faction expansion (I haven’t played Nightfall – yet) is that the story is done in such a way that you can continue along with your Prophecies character if you so desire. I don’t see any reason it couldn’t be done that way again as we naturally have a lot of characters from the main continent.

I miiiiight make it so that the first two weeks require you to make a new character, if only so that the new areas weren’t immediately bombarded with high level characters exploring all of the low level zones and sort of ruining the whole ‘new’ experience. That’s definitely a PR decision, which I lack the knowledge to really comment on (or get paid to think about fully :P)

Cantha is my favourite place in all of Tyria(planet). The most fun I had in GW1 was in Cantha. The human character I’ve made in GW2 is (in my mind) related to my character from Factions.

Nike.2631:

Ok, realpolitik time:

While to many outside of eastern Asian the region looks like one big blob of dirt and a few island occupied by a lot of people with epicanthic eye-folds, the region is actually filed with a complex array of cultures and ethnicities that on the whole hate each other and have been killing each other for thousands of years right up to and including some massive atrocities in the last century. Seriously, ask the man on the street in Osaka and Shanghai about their opposite number in the other city and odds are you’ll hear things that would make the klu klux klan blush. During my stay in Japan I had some of the most pleasant folks imaginable go absolutely feral over things as small as casting a Chinese-descended actor to play a nominally Japanese-American character. We’re talking Hollywood day-to-day business as usual taken as a call for lynch mobs. Ugly.

Now introduce a bunch of dudes and dudettes from the American west coast who have a fondness for Asian architecture/visual stylings and maybe a little understanding of feudal cultures but little or no grounding in the actual historical events of the region. They roll out a setting featuring a mash-up of cultural cues about as insensitive and inappropriate as decorating a classical synagogue with swastikas to people who grew up in the cultures being mangled.

It kittened some people off. And it should. Rather than put a historian on staff to spot check a setting that’s largely unworkable from the ground up they have wisely decided to just NOT put their foot in that particular wolf-trap again after getting out of it once already by gnawing that limb off.

When was this an issue in GW1? When were the public outcries from cities like Osaka and Shanghai?