Guild Wars 2

It is pretty simple, if you wish to pretend to yourself that the 5 man ez-mode PvE in this game is anything but casual and that every serious PvEer has not already left to go back to games with raids / more challeging PvE, then run with a guild group, not a pug.

If you are that serious about it, why are you even running with a pug in the first place, it will never be optimal, but then why aren’t you playing a game with more challenging PvE / complex classes, etc.

maddoctor.2738:

Konrad.9587:

tl;dr: ANet please implement gear inspect feature. Non-elitists, you will still be able to party with people like you, but you will no longer reduce the effectiveness of elitist runs with your casual builds.

Elitists can ask other elitists to join their group, there your problem is solved.

“Looking for 2 more elitists for dungeon run”… we already have posts like this.

Nothing is solved. Can you think of any, apart from gear inspection, reliable ways of early identification and elimination of MF leeches, AR leeches, full P/V/T players joining speed runs, etc?

Mad.1932:

i see only good in it, for one if a group does not want a specefic build in group is it not better to ask them to leave at the start of the run instead of figuring out half way through that theyre setup is not working well in the group and just vote kicking them? second is someone running a MF suit and just bringing everyone down. In any given run its very easy to tell when the groups dps is just not cutting it, but pinpointing who it is when everyone seems to be using theyre abilitys correctly is much tougher. The faster the leech is dropped the faster a rep can be found and the run can be completed. Finally fractals and agony resist, again better to replace the guy who joined with none before the run starts then wasting everyones time.

No. If those players in your example were any good, they would simply adjust and move on. That’s how the game was designed and that’s how it should be played. If you want to make inclusion in your groups dependent on gear and build, let alone profession, then find others who believe in those same restrictions and stay with them.

When you PUG, you should be willing to accept any warm body. If not, then develop a pre-made. It’s too bad that WoW elitism has already crept into this game. I don’t ever want to see it supported by an actual game mechanic.

Rocklin.4106:

Morrigan.2809:

I am against inspect- it is no-one’s business what gear I choose to run with my build, it works for me and that is all that matters.

there exactly is your problem, that attitude is a complete fail and i would not hesitate not inviting or even kicking you from a dungeon group because of it. When you do Group content, you and your build have to work for/with the group, and not for you.

EVERYONE should be able to play the way they want? Yet most of you dont agree when others want to do speedruns, be elitist, or just like numbers, because thats not the playstyle YOU want them to play?

when I say it works for me, I mean I play my class and my build well.
My main is a condition mesmer, with carrion gear/ necro runes and sigils of corruption.
I know how popular that is in the world of DPS.
I play it well and I enjoy it.

I also have a DPS Mesmer that I don’t enjoy as much and I’m less effective playing her.
In addition I have a d/d Ele, a Thief and an fairly high DPS Engi- but that is completely besides the point.

I agree that you need to work for/ with a group if you are in a group-

I don’t agree that I have to have my gear inspected so someone who doesn’t play my character can tell me they don’t like it.
But you know- it is all good you won’t invite me and I won’t party with you so it all works out.

As for speed runs and the like- it is up to the person making the group to decide the purpose of the group and I have no problem with it.

I do find the idea of maximum efficiency rather laughable when applied to a game and not real life, especially since people take it so seriously.

Inspect is fine, just don’t show the stats – I want to know which skins people have

Rocklin.4106:

if everyone should be able to play the game the way he wants. Then everyone should have the right to open a dungeon group and picking only the best dps geared players for it, if thats the way HE wants to play this game.

beeing able to play the game the way you want, doesnt mean others have to take you into every dungeon with that attitude, because they can play it how and with whoever they want as well. If someone asks strictly for exotic geared glasscannons and you run a bunkerbuild and ask for an invite, you are nothing more than a liar, just go find another group that accepts you “the way you want to play”, anet has done nothing wrong there, everyone IS able to play the game he wants.

i have nothing against a gearcheck, id even wish for a dps meter, because the way I WANT to play, is always maximizing, optimizing and getting the best out of my character and my build, instead of purely theorycrafting in the forums with haters and whiners (ranger forum, who almost never even take the pet into “dmg calculations” … ).

You know, there is a game out there that can accommodate your need to exclude. It was never intended to be this one though. Thanks for bringing the elitist kitten to Tyria.

Blacklight.2871:

Rocklin.4106:

if everyone should be able to play the game the way he wants. Then everyone should have the right to open a dungeon group and picking only the best dps geared players for it, if thats the way HE wants to play this game.

beeing able to play the game the way you want, doesnt mean others have to take you into every dungeon with that attitude, because they can play it how and with whoever they want as well. If someone asks strictly for exotic geared glasscannons and you run a bunkerbuild and ask for an invite, you are nothing more than a liar, just go find another group that accepts you “the way you want to play”, anet has done nothing wrong there, everyone IS able to play the game he wants.

i have nothing against a gearcheck, id even wish for a dps meter, because the way I WANT to play, is always maximizing, optimizing and getting the best out of my character and my build, instead of purely theorycrafting in the forums with haters and whiners (ranger forum, who almost never even take the pet into “dmg calculations” … ).

You know, there is a game out there that can accommodate your need to exclude. It was never intended to be this one though. Thanks for bringing the elitist kitten to Tyria.

No. Even if i don’t want “inspect”.

Play the way YOU want to play involves everyone. Even Elitists.

Sylosi.6503:

It is pretty simple, if you wish to pretend to yourself that the 5 man ez-mode PvE in this game is anything but casual and that every serious PvEer has not already left to go back to games with raids / more challeging PvE, then run with a guild group, not a pug.

If you are that serious about it, why are you even running with a pug in the first place, it will never be optimal, but then why aren’t you playing a game with more challenging PvE / complex classes, etc.

What a laugh. Raids challenging? Then WTF is farm mode? The only challenge raids bring is a logistical one — how to get a couple of dozen arrogant, whiny pains in the kitten all pointed in the same direction at the same time.

Raids challenging <snort> … my kitten

Gw2 is skill, not gear game.

So, inspect would only encorage people to see what you are using and kick you, not even knowing how you play. And that is sad.

Samething too for people who don’t let level 35 people do AC Exp, the “80’s only” guys….

Sad too.

However the game has gotten so nerfed and so easy that “dodge”, “jump”, “move”, is becoming pointless.

If you played the first beta weekend you know what I am talking about. Or if you did AC during the beta or at the release you know how hard it was, and how pitiful it is now.

The only challange for while at the game is Fractals (which is not that big deal when you know tatics) or try to solo champions and not get a proper reward for that.

Winfernal.9208:

Blacklight.2871:

Rocklin.4106:

if everyone should be able to play the game the way he wants. Then everyone should have the right to open a dungeon group and picking only the best dps geared players for it, if thats the way HE wants to play this game.

beeing able to play the game the way you want, doesnt mean others have to take you into every dungeon with that attitude, because they can play it how and with whoever they want as well. If someone asks strictly for exotic geared glasscannons and you run a bunkerbuild and ask for an invite, you are nothing more than a liar, just go find another group that accepts you “the way you want to play”, anet has done nothing wrong there, everyone IS able to play the game he wants.

i have nothing against a gearcheck, id even wish for a dps meter, because the way I WANT to play, is always maximizing, optimizing and getting the best out of my character and my build, instead of purely theorycrafting in the forums with haters and whiners (ranger forum, who almost never even take the pet into “dmg calculations” … ).

You know, there is a game out there that can accommodate your need to exclude. It was never intended to be this one though. Thanks for bringing the elitist kitten to Tyria.

No. Even if i don’t want “inspect”.

Play the way YOU want to play involves everyone. Even Elitists.

Right, and there’s a game out there better suited to cater to elitists, with all the tools required to exclude people from playing, right at their fingertips. They should take advantage of that and not try to pollute this one with those same tools of kittenry. Not that it will ever happen. The discussion is really just an exercise in wishful thinking.

Konrad.9587:

Nothing is solved. Can you think of any, apart from gear inspection, reliable ways of early identification and elimination of MF leeches, AR leeches, full P/V/T players joining speed runs, etc?

I don’t want ungeared noobs in my speedruns and fractals as well, but it seems we can’t help it. Anet has decided that we can’t be allowed to sort out leeches and burdens on the group, we have to pretend they just don’t exist and carry on.

Blacklight.2871:

Sylosi.6503:

It is pretty simple, if you wish to pretend to yourself that the 5 man ez-mode PvE in this game is anything but casual and that every serious PvEer has not already left to go back to games with raids / more challeging PvE, then run with a guild group, not a pug.

If you are that serious about it, why are you even running with a pug in the first place, it will never be optimal, but then why aren’t you playing a game with more challenging PvE / complex classes, etc.

What a laugh. Raids challenging? Then WTF is farm mode? The only challenge raids bring is a logistical one — how to get a couple of dozen arrogant, whiny pains in the kitten all pointed in the same direction at the same time.

Raids challenging <snort> … my kitten

What? I’ve been raiding for years. Been in several communities. Made many friends, and we’ve had great laughs. It is also challenging. Stop that black/white thinking.

VOLKON.1290:

Rocklin.4106:

VOLKON.1290:

There are no “pros” to implementing this. You divide the community by allowing an elitist mentality to poison the well. How I choose to gear and spec works well for me… your opinion of my gear and spec is irrelevant … as long as i’m playing alone and not in a group.

i thought i was being funny.

You didn’t do a very good job at it. I play a mesmer, and the way I choose to play my mesmer may not be cookie cutter, but I have a balanced blend of d/c/s that works well both in a solo or group setting. I never have problems completing Fractals or dungeons and have respectable WvW stats as well. I don’t need a spreadsheet to be effective.

I could care less what spec you play. As long as you don’t have MF gear to leech on the efforts of others and have decent enough agony resistance to survive in fractals. That’s pretty much my two golden rules for grouping.

Of course. I can be an elitist at times and go off on pet peeves about how rangers should have healing spring and thieves should always bring shadow refuge. But that’s not ‘get out of my group’ kick worthy.

wintermute.4096:

Konrad.9587:

Nothing is solved. Can you think of any, apart from gear inspection, reliable ways of early identification and elimination of MF leeches, AR leeches, full P/V/T players joining speed runs, etc?

I don’t want ungeared noobs in my speedruns and fractals as well, but it seems we can’t help it. Anet has decided that we can’t be allowed to sort out leeches and burdens on the group, we have to pretend they just don’t exist and carry on.

Well you can ask politely to ping their gear and kick them if you notice they are leeching. That of course only if you actually made it clear you are looking for a speedrun/“pro” team. Or even simpler only run with friends/guildies, that have the same philosophy, and accept that pugs will never be (and don’t need to be) elitist.

Rocklin.4106:

if everyone should be able to play the game the way he wants. Then everyone should have the right to open a dungeon group and picking only the best dps geared players for it, if thats the way HE wants to play this game.

beeing able to play the game the way you want, doesnt mean others have to take you into every dungeon with that attitude, because they can play it how and with whoever they want as well. If someone asks strictly for exotic geared glasscannons and you run a bunkerbuild and ask for an invite, you are nothing more than a liar, just go find another group that accepts you “the way you want to play”, anet has done nothing wrong there, everyone IS able to play the game he wants.

i have nothing against a gearcheck, id even wish for a dps meter, because the way I WANT to play, is always maximizing, optimizing and getting the best out of my character and my build, instead of purely theorycrafting in the forums with haters and whiners (ranger forum, who almost never even take the pet into “dmg calculations” … ).

Thats not way YOU want to play, thats way you want OTHER to play. In other word you want power to aprove or disaprove how others want to play, which is in no way related to how you want to play YOUR char.

I dont think a “gear check” feature is needed. It would just cause more harm than good.

However, I would personally love to see a feature that shows how much MF group memebers have. I want my group members to have stats that benefit their group and not selfish stats. MF doesnt bring anything to boost your own combat preformance or the groups. So a system that shows the MF of group members would be great. It would help people kicking those MF users that refuse to put on proper gear.

Azure Prower.8701:

VOLKON.1290:

Rocklin.4106:

VOLKON.1290:

There are no “pros” to implementing this. You divide the community by allowing an elitist mentality to poison the well. How I choose to gear and spec works well for me… your opinion of my gear and spec is irrelevant … as long as i’m playing alone and not in a group.

i thought i was being funny.

You didn’t do a very good job at it. I play a mesmer, and the way I choose to play my mesmer may not be cookie cutter, but I have a balanced blend of d/c/s that works well both in a solo or group setting. I never have problems completing Fractals or dungeons and have respectable WvW stats as well. I don’t need a spreadsheet to be effective.

I could care less what spec you play. As long as you don’t have MF gear to leech on the efforts of others and have decent enough agony resistance to survive in fractals. That’s pretty much my two golden rules for grouping.

Of course. I can be an elitist at times and go off on pet peeves about how rangers should have healing spring and thieves should always bring shadow refuge. But that’s not ‘get out of my group’ kick worthy.

Well hell, just ask then! I don’t sport any MF gear (I don’t consider that a part of a balanced build personally) and I’ll be happy to link the agony resist. We don’t need an inspect system added that will ultimately cause griefing.

Sorry if i was rude, but tell me ONE good reason why no gear inspection?

Tell me one good reason why, there are already plenty of pretty reasonable reasons on this thread, why not to ad inspection

And what are those?

Fragmentation of player base
Griefing
Elitism
Cookie Cutter builds

I would welcome an inspect feature, at least let us inspect peoples magic find and agony res values.

Morrigan.2809:

Fragmentation of player base
Griefing
Elitism
Cookie Cutter builds

Fragmentation of player base – what a hell is FotM, agony and new introduced gear grind?
Griefing – after kicking in dungeon we all grief
Elitism – still here
Cookie Cutter – if you are meaning berzerker builds/gear they suck in harder dungeons (unless you already have premade dungeon team and figure something out)

This would only split the community up.

Eddard.2930:

This would only split the community up.

It’s already split up, every gaming community is. You have the neverending “hardcore/elitists vs casual” war.

5 warrior runs, “no noobs” runs, “all 80s” runs. They’re already here. Although the split would get bigger with inspect.

I wan’t to be able to inspect gear. Not necessarily for gear checks but just to see what builds people are using.

I think that having a website based armoury would be a better and less invasive starting point than having it in game.

would love this

tbh i dont get why people are so worried about gear elitism.
Groups that require gear checks ALREADY EXIST, and chat linking has the same result, just with added inconvenience.

Most people dont care thou, as if you’re running a dungeon and not farming it, a few more minutes are no big deal.
Only groups i see asking for gearchecks are cof speedrunners, arah, and 20+ fractals, and inspect would change nothing about them.

Aegis.9724:

Only groups i see asking for gearchecks are cof speedrunners, arah, and 20+ fractals, and inspect would change nothing about them.

Yea right, it won’t change a bit. It’s not like there is some agony or something.

Yes

• I want to check if they’re wearing MF gear in a L20+ Fractal.
• I want to check how much Agony resistance they really have.

Would I use this feature to judge other player’s? : No.
Would I use this feature to kick player’s if they didn’t use the “most optimal” gear?: No.

Why not? : Because I’m more curious as to where that person is in terms of gear level. I want to know if I’m running with a MF leecher, a guy with 0 resistance, a glass cannon Thief in all Greens, etc. If you’re a good player who’s honest, you have nothing to worry about.

If anything, I think an Inspection option would encourage more honesty about your character and your intentions (ie: getting carried, you want more fat lewt, etc).

PS: Inspecting someone’s gear does not include inspecting their Traits/Spec. I don’t believe the OP said anything about Trait inspecting? He only mentioned Gear Inspecting. Not sure where everyone is going with “ermahgawd he’s going to judge my build!” – As far as I’m concerned, your “build” would consist of both gear setup and trait setup.

there should be definitely some sort of icon in a party which shows the mf and ar of every player.

Would I be wrong in saying that after all those posts the concensus seems to be:

1. Gear inspection for names of items so we can look up skins
2. AR to be visible
3. MF to be visible

I think that is a whole lot different from a complete gear inspection, while providing the more hardcore players the information they are looking for (no more people dieing in fractal lvl 20+ for having 0 AR). What do you guys think about this?

I support inspecting gear only because of MF. If there wasn’t MF, I wouldn’t really care. Maybe they can make a MF buff so players can see what your total MF% is.

Esya.3427:

Would I be wrong in saying that after all those posts the concensus seems to be:

1. Gear inspection for names of items so we can look up skins
2. AR to be visible
3. MF to be visible

I think that is a whole lot different from a complete gear inspection, while providing the more hardcore players the information they are looking for (no more people dieing in fractal lvl 20+ for having 0 AR). What do you guys think about this?

2 and 3 definitely.

I like the idea of a “Cosmetic gear Inspection”

*It would have a 3D view of the player
*no stats
*particle effects on their armor and weapons
*introduction text of your hero based on your personal story.
*Short customizable text to greet people
*A profile tab for your guild

My vote is yes to be able to view gear, traits, and utility slots.

I don’t like the argument about gear checking because most of these “elitist” know what you have by the look of it or at least the level for the most part. I would much rather know from the start if the group wanted me or not rather then waste everybody’s time.

To me all these people getting their feelings hurt because someone don’t want to play with them is pretty lame. In society today we are getting to soft and emotional. We can’t play dodge ball because its unfair to the overweight kids, we can’t keep score because someone might lose, don’t tell someone the truth because it may hurt their feelings. In my honest opinion we need to get away from that train of thought.

I believe being able to see what others are using would help the community as a whole because when you see someone doing really well you can actually answer the question how are they doing that?

I’ve had way more people bother me about gear/traits than I have ever been bothered with elitist in dungeons. At least give us the option to display those things or not. I would much rather share my builds that I feel work rather than be in a secret club that we are all in now.

Please Please Please make this happen.

Nurse.1085:

Because I’m more curious as to where that person is in terms of gear level. I want to know if I’m running with a MF leecher, a guy with 0 resistance, a glass cannon Thief in all Greens, etc.* If you’re a good player who’s honest, you have nothing to worry about.

This! If they wanted us to socialize they wouldn’t give us MF gear in a first place, i don’t care what build or how do you want to play it

Sovta.4719:

YES!!! We need this! If you think we don’t then you are noob. If someone took his time to learn to play and wants EFFICIENCY in dungeon he should not suffer by playing with noobs.

And here is the reason it should not be Implamented. Thanks for summing it up for everyone.

Samhayn.2385:

Sovta.4719:

YES!!! We need this! If you think we don’t then you are noob. If someone took his time to learn to play and wants EFFICIENCY in dungeon he should not suffer by playing with noobs.

And here is the reason it should not be Implamented. Thanks for summing it up for everyone.

Thank you by showing how good are you.

Winfernal.9208:

It would also make it easier to bash somone because of their gear.

well this could be a positive thing. Newbies could get a useful criticism about why they’re pulling so much aggro for example (because they have really high toughness). Or a pro could be praised for not dying in full berserker gear.

This would be a deal breaker for me, I think. Not the end of the world, but the end of my time in GW2.

That said, I do understand the frustration some must feel in terms of AR and MF. I could see some outward indication of the levels of these might not be a bad thing. I would just worry about a slippery slope towards elitist snobbery.

I do wish elitist behavior had more to do with actually being elite rather than on just setting arbitrary standards for others all too often based on surface knowledge of classes they don’t even play.

Well you can put it like this also:“If there was some kind of braincheck for humans, who would be scared most?”

i dont support inspect gear. i saw the effects of this particular feature in WoW. I would be decently geared for an instance dungeon but because i didnt have certain stats i got booted from the group. People in this game have an approach around this, they require you to link your gear. I carry 2 sets of gear, my berserker and my explorer gear. when they ask me to link my gear i link my berserker gear but i actually wear my explorer gear in the dungeon and it goes just as smoothly. but some are getting booted after linking “trash” gear

Sovta.4719:

Samhayn.2385:

Sovta.4719:

YES!!! We need this! If you think we don’t then you are noob. If someone took his time to learn to play and wants EFFICIENCY in dungeon he should not suffer by playing with noobs.

And here is the reason it should not be Implamented. Thanks for summing it up for everyone.

Thank you by showing how good are you.

Umm what?

Here is the thing, I have played a game with gear checking and gear scores and dps meters and people wanting you to have cookie cutter specs. The whole time I played it I was able to use non standerd gear (pvp gear) and a pvp spec and still out dps, not stand in fire and learn the bosses script as fast or faster then the hardcore pve expert. All this was fine in guild where people know me and how I play and accepted the fact that I did not need to be carried. The problem comes in when you want to put becuase either not enough guild members are on or they are doing something different at the time. So if I feel like running a dungeon I can but if they implement gear check I’m going to have to justify my gear and build to some guy/gal who read on some website that since I play “x” class I should have “y” build and “z” spec? kitten all that noise. The best part is I could with my non cookie spec be the one carrying the “expert” thru the dungeon becuase skill, knowledge of your class and proper timing mean way more then what spec you run.

Sorry for the wall of text but pve elitism is a hot butting issue with me.

Horrible, horrible idea. Want to divide the community? Give them a way to make fun of, call names and generally embarrass and try and pigeon hole players into “good” and “bad”.

There is absolutely no benefit to having this in the game.

I was standing at the TP yesterday, and an ele was next to me with a staff. Someone said in /say chat, “what a noob, you’re supposed to be dd build, not staff”.

Allow inspection and things like that will get completely out of hand.

Warcraft is that way folks —-—>

You can have your inspections and Gearscore and elitist snubbing all you want over there. Leave a game that has done a superb job of keeping that elitist crap out of it alone.

Did you guys even heard of Agony? AR IS gear check itself, this will be only faster way.
Like i already said they will introduce gear inspection anyway, only question is time.

Samhayn.2385:

Umm what?

Don’t worry, I am pretty sure Sovta is actually on our side in this debate. He making a parody of the usual elitist talk but exaggerating the snobbery and hostility to make them look bad.

Quixal.9124:

Samhayn.2385:

Umm what?

Don’t worry, I am pretty sure Sovta is actually on our side in this debate. He making a parody of the usual elitist talk but exaggerating the snobbery and hostility to make them look bad.

Ok, explain to me WHY is agony in this game then if not for gear check?

You can tell in the responses to this thread who should still be playing WOW. I am against it, there is no ONE way of doing stuff in this game and I do not see why the min/max parsers should be enabled to propagate their elitist behavior. PUGs are PUGs.

Sovta.4719:

Ok, explain to me WHY is agony in this game then if not for gear check?

Agony is absolutely an AR gear check. I would have to go back and read all the posts to be sure but I am not sure anyone has suggested otherwise.