Guild Wars 2

spoj.9672:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

Thats simply not true. Think about why people record videos of them playing. And then look at your last comment again.

People solo in berserkers because they have already learnt to solo. Most people learn to solo after they already accept the meta. Noone is going to solo a dungeon with gear that takes twice as long when they can do it in berserker. And people who record solos tend to only upload the runs they are proud of. So obviously they arent going to upload their first solo where they tried various things and wiped several times. With that in mind its fairly obvious why most videos demonstrate smooth runs with the most efficient builds and gear for solos.

Like I said before. Defensive gear is easier. But the endurance of maintaining your active defence is the hardest part of learning to solo. Once you have that down the gear makes no difference other than kill time. But if you arent consistant then defensive gear is obviously going to be easier. Cool downs dont come into play at all. Most bosses cannot be solo’d that fast even in berserker gear. So repeatable management of active defence is important no matter what gear you use.

I guess they record it to show they’re able to solo it. Beating anyones best time came afterwards – so there should be some ancient soldier’s gear videos around if it were that much easier in it – or if not, you guys really should make some – no matter how long it takes as I bet a lot of people would love to be able to solo dungeons, no matter how long it takes them – best way to avoid the zerker meta.

First time solos dont get recorded because they are sloppy and can take hours. After that they may record a run to show they’ve done it. But the player will have a strategy in mind. So there really is no reason to use defensive gear. And most people know that it doesnt look impressive soloing a dungeon in PVT and taking half an hour to kill a single boss.

And there are some old lupi solos that did take about 20-30 mins (the first wave of lupi solos). Not sure what gear was used, but they were using ranged weapons and stuff like that. I know the first necro kill took like 20 mins and used rabid gear with an absolutely atrocious build. But it was the first necro solo so it was still quite an achievement.

fireflyry.7023:

TPMN.1483:

MMOs always will have an optimal team makeup for a specific location (meta).

That’s fine.

What your missing is other games have alternate options. The “meta” in this regard is varied and caters to different play-styles and/or gearing often just as efficient, if not more so, than the common generic cookie-cutter.

In this game the (meta) is purely zerg for the majority. Yes you can run the same content naked with a rusty spoon but good luck getting into a team and god forbid if you take 2 minutes longer than the last run.This seems to be the OP’s point, Zerg or your gimping the team.

This negates any semblance of player freedom or choice…in an MMORPG.

In other games you have the same options as here, choose another class.
In other games your role is determined your playstyle (dps, healer, tank). Of course you can be a special snowflake and heal as a tank while in dps gear sure, but you know too that its not a good thing.
In others game you often pursue to be the most efficient in your role. Increase your ability to deal more dps, keep up with mana and heal a higher amount, get more hp / avoidance from gear etc which is called a meta.

Here you are self reliant, more or less independent from your group, however to have more synergy between similar builds and playstyles it’s prefered to go with your likeminded players (zerkers with zerkers, phiws with phiws, role players with role players and so on) otherwise it can cause frustration or simply bad experience.
But luckily there is a magic tool called “LFG tool” that can be used to avoid such disasters as you can read it here in a recent topic.

Even beyond that the content made in a way that you can beat it with any build with any party composition. I mean go trough to the end. Sure, you can die a lot without skipping hard mobs or not using reflects in a full necro group at certain bosses but eventually you can go trough everything. I see huuuuuge freedom here.

ps: Can you show me examples to that above mentioned “alternate options”?

fireflyry.7023:

TPMN.1483:

MMOs always will have an optimal team makeup for a specific location (meta).

That’s fine.

What your missing is other games have alternate options. The “meta” in this regard is varied and caters to different play-styles and/or gearing often just as efficient, if not more so, than the common generic cookie-cutter.

gw2 meta =/= one build (per class) fits all.
gw2 meta =/= one team composition fits all.
gw2 meta =/= only one team composition works.
Variation exists within the meta.
This has to exist because there is variation within the enemies.

But I find many who argue against gw2 having a meta have no clue about these three facts.

This is probably the result of blissful ignorance to the fact they get carried by stronger players putting in greater effort. Then get mad because they are being asked to play better.

Djinn.9245:

Harper.4173:

I wonder if the people above going against the “meta” realize what meta means, what it is and why diversity is not and can never be a thing.

No, they don’t. If Berzerker gear is somehow made less favorable, something else will take its place.

That’s not about lack of understanding what “meta” means. It’s just that in this game it’s DPS first. Spam your chain with max DPS stats…period.

Thats the GW2 meta. Zerk.

In other games there is allowance for variation and diversity of skills, gear, classes, within that “meta”. That’s what it should be about. Allowing such diversity. To say it’s not and can never be a thing states absolute ignorance in regards to gaming history.

By and large “meta” is commonly recognised as a Greek prefix for “to go beyond” or more loosely to push boundaries or create and embrace diversity.

I think you misunderstand the meta and what is require to play it…
Active Defenses !!- eg Blinds/Aegis/interrupts etc etc

All play a role – the DPS element is also there.
If you just try to DPS – you will be dead.

This is where you first need to understand the meta properly before you can properly comment on it.

TPMN.1483:

I think you misunderstand the meta and what is require to play it…
Active Defenses !!- eg Blinds/Aegis/interrupts etc etc

All play a role – the DPS element is also there.
If you just try to DPS – you will be dead.

This is where you first need to understand the meta properly before you can properly comment on it.

[obvious sarcasm]Not true! Everyone knows the only element of a build is your gear stats. Duh.[/obvious sarcasm]

TPMN.1483:

I think you misunderstand the meta and what is require to play it…

Nah…your just arguing for the sake of it.

Good day sir.

fireflyry.7023:

That’s not about lack of understanding what “meta” means. It’s just that in this game it’s DPS first. Spam your chain with max DPS stats…period.

Thats the GW2 meta. Zerk.

In other games there is allowance for variation and diversity of skills, gear, classes, within that “meta”. That’s what it should be about. Allowing such diversity. To say it’s not and can never be a thing states absolute ignorance in regards to gaming history.

By and large “meta” is commonly recognised as a Greek prefix for “to go beyond” or more loosely to push boundaries or create and embrace diversity.

You would like diversity in traits and skills within the gw2 meta?

http://dulfy.net/category/gw2/class-guides-gw2/

Enjoy!

PS:

TPMN.1483:

Learn the meta, understand why it works (before moaning without justification- as your not getting accepted to those “good reliably fast groups”).

fireflyry.7023:

Djinn.9245:

Harper.4173:

I wonder if the people above going against the “meta” realize what meta means, what it is and why diversity is not and can never be a thing.

No, they don’t. If Berzerker gear is somehow made less favorable, something else will take its place.

That’s not about lack of understanding what “meta” means. It’s just that in this game it’s DPS first. Spam your chain with max DPS stats…period.

That’s not even remotely true. I can assure that when a Thief is using Black Powder or a mesmer casts Phantasmal Warden they aren’t doing it to increase DPS.

Thats the GW2 meta. Zerk.

Not really. Meta is the 2xele, 1xwarrior, 1x thief, 1x guardian team comp. The gear they wear isn’t nearly as important as the different weapon skills they have, using them in proper coordination and the judicious use of their utility kills.

Fact: the meta team comp with 5 skilled players wearing Soldier gear is superior to a group of the same 5 players using berserker gear and playing a bad comp of 4 mesmers 1 necro. Or even something lame like 3 warriors 2 rangers. Synergy of skills trumps secondary considerations like gearing.

In other games there is allowance for variation and diversity of skills, gear, classes, within that “meta”. That’s what it should be about. Allowing such diversity. To say it’s not and can never be a thing states absolute ignorance in regards to gaming history.

Actually you’re being ignorant since you clearly don’t understand the diversity as it exists in this game currently. The meta Ele build is 66200 S/F. Would you like me to explain all the different variations of this and why and how people change it to suit the situation or the group?

By and large “meta” is commonly recognised as a Greek prefix for “to go beyond” or more loosely to push boundaries or create and embrace diversity.

I don’t think anyone in gaming uses the term “meta” to mean what you’re doing. But hey, if you want to play pretend and make up whatever fake definition suits your needs go for it, but its an intellectually bankrupt maneuver.

fireflyry.7023:

Djinn.9245:

Harper.4173:

I wonder if the people above going against the “meta” realize what meta means, what it is and why diversity is not and can never be a thing.

No, they don’t. If Berzerker gear is somehow made less favorable, something else will take its place.

That’s not about lack of understanding what “meta” means. It’s just that in this game it’s DPS first. Spam your chain with max DPS stats…period.

Thats the GW2 meta. Zerk.

In other games there is allowance for variation and diversity of skills, gear, classes, within that “meta”. That’s what it should be about. Allowing such diversity. To say it’s not and can never be a thing states absolute ignorance in regards to gaming history.

By and large “meta” is commonly recognised as a Greek prefix for “to go beyond” or more loosely to push boundaries or create and embrace diversity.

Every game has a focus on DPS, though it’s not DPS first, it’kitten the required defense first, then stack the DPS, just like GW2, grab your utility/defense professions then stack the offense. I mean look at team compositions, you don’t grab a guard for offense, but they’re very nice defensively. There really isn’t any more diversity in other games other than the trinity system requiring different roles at times.

There is diversity though in that you’ll want different trait setups, perhaps different runes and sigils and surely different weapons and utilities for different situations. Even team composition comes in to play.

People are too caught up on gear alone and equate the fact that Zerk/Assassins stand above the rest to mean there are no options in this game, which is just simply wrong.

hybrid.5027:

Synergy of skills trumps secondary considerations like gearing.

Quoted for emphasis. Statements like this one cannot be said enough.

Harper.4173:

Leo G.4501:

Harper.4173:

The “they couldn’t foresee” excuse people give the devs is probably one of the worst ones I’ve seen.

Past changes and current state say otherwise. You can’t argue with the past because it’s already happened. You can deny it all you want but it’s not changing anything.

And you act like I’m trying to defend someone. I say that to describe the current state of the game. Since the devs couldn’t use hindsight to make their content, I’m hoping they’re learning and the reason they’re taking so long to introduce permanent dungeon content is so they get something varied enough that the majority tactic used on most older content won’t be the best approach.

If you’re waiting for more dungeons I understand – but doubt it’ll be a thing.

Regarding the foresight issue – you’re naive if you think they couldn’t do it. I explained things pretty well in my previous post.

Also – just because the tactic changes doesn’t mean we won’t have a strictly enforced meta that goes “adhere to this meta or get kicked”.

Which is funny since that’s what most of these non-meta anti-zerker people want – to get carried through content when they’re not even adapting to it. To be accepted into parties that don’t want them and to not get kicked.

Well I’m not really waiting for anything, just suggesting because if no one says what they want, you get more of the same. And the word naive isn’t what you’re looking for.

And you can label people however you want, that doesn’t make you right or some authority on the subject. And it sounds like you’re the nieve one if you think the solution should result in the same song and dance but with a change in the tactic. But you’d never guess that with most of the narrow minded mentalities that exist on the forums.

1. Change into zerker gear.
2. Ping zerker gear to placate your party’s concerns.
3. Change back into your original gear.

Enjoy!

We can tell if you are not wearing the zerker gear due to lack of DPS.
Don’t think we are stupid

Vesuvius.9874:

1. Change into zerker gear.
2. Ping zerker gear to placate your party’s concerns.
3. Change back into your original gear.

Enjoy!

I would consider that a borderline lfg abuse and it’s just such a kitten thing to be a liar dipskritt. I wouldn’t be proud of that. At all. Just sayin’.

ps: Elitists are toxic pff … yeah, sure.

Not just lack of dps..
Its also quite obvious when you take a heavy attack in the face and don’t lose much health.

Vesuvius.9874:

1. Change into zerker gear.
2. Ping zerker gear to placate your party’s concerns.
3. Change back into your original gear.

Enjoy!

Or….

…wait for it….

Make your own group!

Seriously, why be a kitten and join a group where you know you don’t meet the party requirements, when you can just make your own?

I can think of two reasons:

1) Ignorance of how the LFG tool works (i.e. you don’t know that it’s possible to make your own group).

-or-

2) You want to be carried by more skilled players.

If I’m missing a reason, feel free to fill me in.

Vesuvius.9874:

1. Change into zerker gear.
2. Ping zerker gear to placate your party’s concerns.
3. Change back into your original gear.

Enjoy!

The second you fail to dodge an attack the group will know you’re a liar. On the other hand, if you don’t fail to dodge attacks… then why not just use zerk?

Don’t go around lying, it’s not something to be proud of. Start your own group. Personally I rather join an “all welcome” arah run than the speedrun groups that want to wall gimmick Lupi and all that. You’d be surprised how fast “all welcome” groups fill up.

For the record, I’ve never actually done that. Just trying to be helpful by offering “alternative” workarounds to OPs problem

Vesuvius.9874:

For the record, I’ve never actually done that. Just trying to be helpful by offering “alternative” workarounds to OPs problem

Vesuvius.9874:

1. Change into zerker gear.
2. Ping zerker gear to placate your party’s concerns.
3. Change back into your original gear.

Enjoy!

Party notices lower dps.
Enjoy your kick right near the end of the dungeon.
I’ve seen it happen.

maddoctor.2738:

spoj.9672:

I would very much like to see you pull that off in a lvl 50 fractal.

Or Arah, or other dungeons too, try 1111111 faceroll the spider in AC for example.

Or try 111111 faceroll the Mordrem bosses at Indigo, or or or

But of course people like to say the “1111 faceroll” argument and think it’s valid

‘Cause it is. Just because there are a few cases that you can count where a player needs to at least keep one eye on their screen doesn’t mean that “1111 faceroll”, as he calls it, doesn’t exist in the majority of PvE.

TPMN.1483:

If you just try to DPS – you will be dead.

Surprise surprise – after two years we still find people dying in mass at events that are so bloody easy and predictable. What does that say about the state of the game and its current meta?

I like skilled players that wear Berserker gear and know how to fight but stay alive too. Unfortunately so many are favoring the gear type and DPS heavy builds without care. As I’ve said in previous posts — there is no fear of failure or death. Just max your DPS – get your taps in – then sit back and watch a movie.

I sound like an absolute troll these days when I express my distaste for the dead in game. I no longer go out of my way to revive people. Which is so incredibly sad…. I used to all the time. I’d drop what I was doing and rush over. Now, unless you’re a friend or guildie, I don’t give a kitten. How tired I am… I wish I could take pity on the dead or dying again. I wish I could think that they weren’t most likely glassy and not caring if they got killed… But I just can’t do that anymore.

It isn’t just a Meta: Zerk issue here. The combat mechanic and enemy AI are responsible for creating this mess.

As stated before, there will never ever ever ever EVER be complete and equal balance in an mmo. There will always be a meta. Heck, there are metas outside of MMOs (tcgs for example)!

If you nerf zerk, people will go to assassins, and so on and so on, till its your armor stats you don’t want nerfed, when that is now the meta.

I think its more that people are too afraid to make their own groups, weeing how other post with such requirements as “10k ap” or “zerks only!”. Just make your own group, and don’t worry about meeting those requirements. When I make a dungeon group for cof, I just say “p1”. That’s it. Other dungeons same thing. If, for cof, they say " can I bring an alt for the XP?" In my mind sure, but I run it by the group first.

Basically, stop trying to fit in with others, and run your own. Its OK, and if people leave, they leave. Don’t let it get to you.

I have run many many dungeons and have never been asked what gear or build that I was running. Of course though, I don’t try to join “zerker” groups, even when I do run in zerker gear.

Azhure.1857:

Surprise surprise – after two years we still find people dying in mass at events that are so bloody easy and predictable. What does that say about the state of the game and its current meta?

I like skilled players that wear Berserker gear and know how to fight but stay alive too. Unfortunately so many are favoring the gear type and DPS heavy builds without care. As I’ve said in previous posts — there is no fear of failure or death. Just max your DPS – get your taps in – then sit back and watch a movie.

I sound like an absolute troll these days when I express my distaste for the dead in game. I no longer go out of my way to revive people. Which is so incredibly sad…. I used to all the time. I’d drop what I was doing and rush over. Now, unless you’re a friend or guildie, I don’t give a kitten. How tired I am… I wish I could take pity on the dead or dying again. I wish I could think that they weren’t most likely glassy and not caring if they got killed… But I just can’t do that anymore.

It isn’t just a Meta: Zerk issue here. The combat mechanic and enemy AI are responsible for creating this mess.

Well that does say that most people haven’t figured out the mechanics – and didn’t you say this game is dumbed down? Welcome to the discrepance of new and veteran players. But most people take advise actually.
BTW: I went zerkers when I was a new player as well, not because I knew of the “meta” but because the stats sounded best.

Jana.6831:

Well that does say that most people haven’t figured out the mechanics – and didn’t you say this game is dumbed down? Welcome to the discrepance of new and veteran players. But most people take advise actually.
BTW: I went zerkers when I was a new player as well, not because I knew of the “meta” but because the stats sounded best.

Well then let me apologize if I have ever let you die, stay dead, or will in the future.

I do believe the game has been dumbed down and fear that it will continue to be taken down that path. Regardless of how easy it is people will still continue to die. They have no reason not to. I’m not an elitist sitting back and laughing at the dead at events. I’m an old fart (aka veteran player) that has become apathetic to those dying when there is no reason to and instead of laughing at the dead, I sigh in frustration. I know the difference between someone that is glassy and someone that can take a hit before going down, or better yet knows how to dodge and use combat mechanics to stay alive. Or knows that some bosses, based on their AI and mechanics, aren’t wise to face-tank.

Am I asking too much, Jana? That people should try to succeed at an event AND stay alive at the same time? That the game be challenging enough that it requires brain function from its players? That it not be dumbed down to such a low level that people can succeed in game at many, not all I know, things by pressing one and doing other things in the background at the same time? (I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

Azhure.1857:

(I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

What are these guildmates of yours doing in GW2 while doing all that at the same time? Solo Lupi?

maddoctor.2738:

Azhure.1857:

(I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

What are these guildmates of yours doing in GW2 while doing all that at the same time? Solo Lupi?

No, not solo Lupi. Er…. at least not that I’m aware of.

- Dungeons
- World Boss Train
- Guild Missions

EDIT: Let it be known that I can’t do such a thing. I just know that some of them are on a daily basis. The fact that they can, no matter their amazing multitasking prowess, is not a good thing in my book. At least not for this game.

Azhure.1857:

maddoctor.2738:

Azhure.1857:

(I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

What are these guildmates of yours doing in GW2 while doing all that at the same time? Solo Lupi?

No, not solo Lupi. Er…. at least not that I’m aware of.

- Dungeons
- World Boss Train
- Guild Missions

Which dungeons are they doing while watching TV? And how are they doing the Crab Rush or the Ogre Challenge while watching TV?

I believe your guildmates are just getting carried by other players, or they are just terrible liars.

I’m sure playing the TP and afking in LA is very easy while watching TV. Or some general farming here and there.

Jerus.4350:

Vesuvius.9874:

1. Change into zerker gear.
2. Ping zerker gear to placate your party’s concerns.
3. Change back into your original gear.

Enjoy!

The second you fail to dodge an attack the group will know you’re a liar. On the other hand, if you don’t fail to dodge attacks… then why not just use zerk?

How ? Because you survived the attack? Even a Berserker ele doesn’t get that easily one shot that you can be surprised if he doesn’t end instantly down the second he doesn’t dodge.
Especially when protection, aegis and weakness exist.

Someone not wearing full berserker’s can get away with it pretty easily. As long as he isn’t the only last player standing and his party members start noticing something isn’t “right”.

But the main thing that’s going to be noticeable is the behavior. Wanting to wear whatever is one thing, fighting a boss at 1200 (or 1500) while everyone else is at melee range is another.

maddoctor.2738:

I believe your guildmates are just getting carried by other players, or they are just terrible liars.

I don’t believe they’re lying. However I must agree with you that they aren’t putting 100% into GW2, which doesn’t even need to be said its so obvious, but is it not more telling that they don’t have to?

Regardless, I think this is derailing.

Azhure.1857:

TPMN.1483:

If you just try to DPS – you will be dead.

Surprise surprise – after two years we still find people dying in mass at events that are so bloody easy and predictable. What does that say about the state of the game and its current meta?

Most likely nothing. The majority of the playerbase is still dumb despite the content is played to death. What it has to do with the meta anyway?
I still can count on my one hand how many people want to melee the Golem boss instead of range exploit it on the boxes … Which i find utterly sad.
Wurm and Claw still fears away half of the map despite those are dodgeable and stability prevents it too. Not to mention the charrzooka on Claw which negates every single attack Claw does against you if you use it well.
Shatterer begs for a revamp because that toenail polishing “tactic” isn’t that interesting. Funny sometimes i still see dead people on the ground there.
The rest melts too fast to be an issue with large zergs.

Again, it has nothing to do with the meta, it’s just a player and content issue. Put ingame a new world boss in a higher zone and no matter how easy it is players will die. At least most of them. After it becomes a known thing it will be just another farm material as the rest.

ps: As for the rest of your posts, you and your friends exaggerate too much.

Dalanor.5387:

Again, it has nothing to do with the meta, it’s just a player and content issue.

How is it not a meta issue? Even if only indirectly?
If all that mattered was pumping out damage, without fear of failure or death, and the game was designed to reward getting “taps” — How does that not lead to players going zerk to get more DPS in? With or without regards to speed.

Also: please don’t call me a liar. I’m not in this. It may be hard for you to believe, and that’s fine, but you don’t know me or my friends.

Azhure.1857:

Dalanor.5387:

Again, it has nothing to do with the meta, it’s just a player and content issue.

How is it not a meta issue? Even if only indirectly?
If all that mattered was pumping out damage, without fear of failure or death, and the game was designed to reward getting “taps” — How does that not lead to players going zerk to get more DPS in? With or without regards to speed.

Also: please don’t call me a liar. I’m not in this. It may be hard for you to believe, and that’s fine, but you don’t know me or my friends.

Because dumb players has nothing to do with berserker’s gear nor meta builds.
World bosses, well most of them, can’t be critted so it doesn’t matter that you wear zerkers or soldiers or whatever. The rest has so many healtpoints it still doesn’t matter with large player numbers. Also the tagging encourages grouping up which i find a neat thing since the playerbase is way too anti-social.

Azhure.1857:

Well then let me apologize if I have ever let you die, stay dead, or will in the future.

I do believe the game has been dumbed down and fear that it will continue to be taken down that path. Regardless of how easy it is people will still continue to die. They have no reason not to. I’m not an elitist sitting back and laughing at the dead at events. I’m an old fart (aka veteran player) that has become apathetic to those dying when there is no reason to and instead of laughing at the dead, I sigh in frustration. I know the difference between someone that is glassy and someone that can take a hit before going down, or better yet knows how to dodge and use combat mechanics to stay alive. Or knows that some bosses, based on their AI and mechanics, aren’t wise to face-tank.

Am I asking too much, Jana? That people should try to succeed at an event AND stay alive at the same time? That the game be challenging enough that it requires brain function from its players? That it not be dumbed down to such a low level that people can succeed in game at many, not all I know, things by pressing one and doing other things in the background at the same time? (I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

You probably did as I’ve been on IoJ, but I don’t hold a grudge But that wasn’t my point, I can understand you with that actually.

Has anything been changed in PvE lately? Since my focus is now wvw the game hasn’t been dumbed down from my point of view as nothing is harder than facing an human opponent. Thing with dungeons is that doing them without a clue is really hard as there’s always some kind of trick behind it but one can’t really get behind it in time. Once one knows the tricks it’s a piece of cake. Not sure what else you could’ve meant.

And if it’s too easy try wvw, IoJ have been really good while I was there. I will always love them for the best zergfights I ever had and probably ever will have. Maybe they’re still that good.

Edit: So while this game has become really easy for veterans it isn’t for new players, that’s because of the tricks behind everything. And maybe a lot of those who die don’t have traits or wonky gear or greens or whatever, they don’t have to be zerkers to die easily. I can die easily in soldier’s too, I think. In wvw I can.

Also factor in the storage problem. A person trying other builds needs to spend time getting the gear but is also punished because the gear needs more storage space.

It used to be like this with skin hunters, they were punished for collecting skins until the wardrobe came along.

fireflyry.7023:

hybrid.5027:

fireflyry.7023:

That’s not about lack of understanding what “meta” means. It’s just that in this game it’s DPS first. Spam your chain with max DPS stats…period.

That’s not even remotely true. I can assure that when a Thief is using Black Powder or a mesmer casts Phantasmal Warden they aren’t doing it to increase DPS.

Thats the GW2 meta. Zerk.

Not really. Meta is the 2xele, 1xwarrior, 1x thief, 1x guardian team comp. The gear they wear isn’t nearly as important as the different weapon skills they have, using them in proper coordination and the judicious use of their utility kills.

Fact: the meta team comp with 5 skilled players wearing Soldier gear is superior to a group of the same 5 players using berserker gear and playing a bad comp of 4 mesmers 1 necro. Or even something lame like 3 warriors 2 rangers. Synergy of skills trumps secondary considerations like gearing.

In other games there is allowance for variation and diversity of skills, gear, classes, within that “meta”. That’s what it should be about. Allowing such diversity. To say it’s not and can never be a thing states absolute ignorance in regards to gaming history.

Actually you’re being ignorant since you clearly don’t understand the diversity as it exists in this game currently. The meta Ele build is 66200 S/F. Would you like me to explain all the different variations of this and why and how people change it to suit the situation or the group?

By and large “meta” is commonly recognised as a Greek prefix for “to go beyond” or more loosely to push boundaries or create and embrace diversity.

I don’t think anyone in gaming uses the term “meta” to mean what you’re doing. But hey, if you want to play pretend and make up whatever fake definition suits your needs go for it, but its an intellectually bankrupt maneuver.

I dig this post. Great response but your wrong. I don’t state such as personal opinion, just that the game and community directly states such. Have fun feeling superior or whatever though

Can you explain why hes wrong? Because hes not. The only thing hes slightly off about is the meta comp. The meta comp changes depending on dungeon path. But the example he gave is basically the balanced cover it all comp for casual meta runs or the baseline composition.

This is like seeing an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. Nike, Spoj, I don’t know why you guys are trying, your time would be better spent watching paint peel than trying to educate some of these people on the game’s combat system.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

This is like seeing an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. Nike, Spoj, I don’t know why you guys are trying, your time would be better spent watching paint peel than trying to educate some of these people on the game’s combat system.

You aren’t enough experienced in PvF yet, are you? ;D Player versus Forum is the true endgame of GW2. Period.

The only times I usually look at the forums these days is if I am in a lull at work. I’m honestly surprised this thread hasn’t been locked already

oxtred.7658:

juno.1840:

Piratoz.8627:

Until several major things change, zerker meta will stay as the prevalent build for all classes in GW2. Why is that you say?

1. No holy trinity. The holy trinity remains as the primary way of designing a combat system in MMOs. It works well and is easy to make content for. However, in guild wars 2 the 2 sides of the trinity: tanking and healing either don’t exist or just kind of suck. There is no way to reliably control aggro, tank stats are pretty useless other than for personal survival. Healing power scales extremely poorly for PVE and is largely seen as useless as every class has a heal skill with high base healing. Instead the “trinity” of gw2 was advertised as DPS, support, and control. However this leads me to my second point…

2. No matter what you build, your CC and boon giving abilities are pretty much the same. The zerker elementalist is going to give roughly the same amount of boons as the full soldiers elementalist. Outside of boon duration, there is really no way to make your support or control abilities stronger. By building any stat except for damage you are really just gimping your party in a way unless you can’t survive. However this leads me to my third point…

3. Content in guild wars 2 is easy. There. I said it. You can view it how you want, but in my opinion, content in guild wars 2, especially older content is fairly easy compared to other popular MMOs because of one mechanic: Dodge. I love dodging in this game, however the ability to have evade frames for a good second at any time if you have the endurance to pay for it makes it so that even the glassiest of characters can survive almost all encounters in the game. I have a feeling that Arenanet won’t change this as they have the motto of “play how you want”. While some players may make this excuse to take strange or “unoptimal” builds, it works both ways. The full cleric guardian should theoretically be able to complete the same content as the 11k hp elementalist. This leads me to my final point…

4. Because of these reasons, there is no real need for teamwork . This is by far one of the biggest gripes I have with the game. Your thief and elementalist are dead or downed? Guardian AFK? Thats okay! Chances are, if you or the other person are good enough you could probably solo or duo the boss. Every class is self sufficient. While this does have its strengths, it really detracts from the most challenging aspect of MMOs, and in my opinion, the part that is the most fun: working as a team to beat challenging content.

I’m not saying that I hate Guild Wars 2. I love playing the game. However like most things, there are many things that could be improved in this game, one of which is the combat. There will be many people who disagree with me, however one of the best parts about playing an MMO is working with other people, often people that you don’t know. The holy trinity was an easy way to make it so that it was necessary to play the different roles and work with other people.

TLDR: I do believe that gw2 can find a way to make their “soft trinity” combat system work, but right now PVE really needs some love from the developers. Until there are major changes to combat or the way encounters are designed, the only trinity in the game is power, precision, and ferocity.

Exactly this. Teamwork is not blasting your buddy’s fire field – you can screw that up and maybe the fight takes 20 seconds longer. Teamwork is something that if you fail at, your entire party fails. GW2 does have much teamwork at all… only forces via the environment (i.e. two people stand on a pressure plate).

Q1: Ever did arah?
Q2: Ever played guardian?
Q3: Ever played high level fractals?
Q4: Ever participated in a speedrun?

Yep, the game isn’t hard at first especially if you don’t leave ac. In more difficult conditions ( something anet doesn’t want to support (ironically)), defensive support is needed. At least for offensive geared user, since ptv guards and warriors can still fail to dodge and facetank.

Oh yea, I wonder how many people are willing to give an honest answer to these questions before going off to sprout off about stuff. =p

I would have to say no on 3, those things seem really tough. :S

The only meta I know at this point is that groups in LFG that demand Zerk or demand heavy are inevitably huge PITA’s to finish.

To summarize, I believe many players “hate” the meta due to past bad experiences with the LFG tool. Being insulted by a random jerk that has no clue of who you really are has to be super annoying, and surely a way to turn-off players from even doing Dungeons (or whatever else). Further aggravated by the immense amount of players who do use a random “meta” that actually isn’t, or are just sheep without the skill to pull out what they saw on a video-but still have the gall to insult others for “lack of skill”, and other pettiness. Thus the problem is not people who like “Berserker’s meta”, but the idiots that like to belittle others for doing things differently than they do (meta isn’t the problem-jerks are.)

Another regrettable aspect of this “debate” is quite often seeing the really good players refer to loose, non-meta builds as “atrocious”, “terribad”, etc., as if their forum audience were all part of their guild or speed run mentality. If these players just proclaimed the builds they dislike/would never use as merely “sub-optimal” (which truly they may be) vs calling alternate builds nasty epithets (a “bad” build for speed running may be fantastic for another player who is not even contemplating to speed run-which is a LOT of your readers) many would be less angry at people who enjoy their “meta-ness”.

In short, be fair to people, so they don’t bite you back. Nobody should enjoy being the object of ridicule for playing their way/being different than many/most. No need to treat others as inferiors for enjoying the game differently than you do (being a “snowflake” is actually a fair choice, and one not to be ridiculed.)

That said, I do not agree that the meta “shouldn’t exist”, because many players are drawn to that playstyle. Wisely make your own groups or only join those who at least appear to share your own vision of the game.

Azhure.1857:

maddoctor.2738:

Azhure.1857:

(I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

What are these guildmates of yours doing in GW2 while doing all that at the same time? Solo Lupi?

No, not solo Lupi. Er…. at least not that I’m aware of.

- Dungeons
- World Boss Train
- Guild Missions

EDIT: Let it be known that I can’t do such a thing. I just know that some of them are on a daily basis. The fact that they can, no matter their amazing multitasking prowess, is not a good thing in my book. At least not for this game.

You don’t need any multi-tasking prowess to do this.

World bosses? really? The reasons I can afk doing them or do anything else while the boss meter goes down are simple :

1) You don’t get punished for dying. You tag the boss – it stays tagged. You died? No biggie – if you did some damage you’ll still get a reward.

2)The zergs are so big none of these events are even remotely failable

Guild Missions? Same issues. You can tag your Bounty boss and tab out until it’s dead.
Puzzle? Just let other people carry you through while simply moving from one room to another.
Challenge? Same – tag something and afk. The rest of the people will cover.

And finally – Guild Rush – while this one you can’t afk – it’s made very easy by people running escort.

You want to know what the real problem with all of this is?

1)Lack of player punishment for dying/making mistakes.
2)This content is not instanced but open world – which means that people not pulling their weight are drowned out by an endless supply of zerglings pushing on.

At any world boss or guild mission it doesn’t matter if I tab out because there’s far more players there than the number that would be required to finish the event.

Regarding dungeons – you can’t really afk during those but – your party will notice and kick but you can certainly do other stuff in the mean time. Why?

Because it’s been 2 years and the content is the same. Of course you can grab a bite between two engagements when you know the coast is clear.

Azhure.1857:

maddoctor.2738:

I believe your guildmates are just getting carried by other players, or they are just terrible liars.

I don’t believe they’re lying. However I must agree with you that they aren’t putting 100% into GW2, which doesn’t even need to be said its so obvious, but is it not more telling that they don’t have to?

Regardless, I think this is derailing.

It’s not really derailing – you’ve hit a critical issue.

Being made to be casual-friendly and designed in such a way that your average player doesn’t get curb stomped every time he tries something means that the game is inherently easy for anyone who can perform at an above-average level.

It’s pretty simple. If it’s easy enough the bads can do it – good players will have a breeze.
You can’t make it harder for the good players while still keeping it easy for bad players.

And sadly there are significantly more bad players than good players. So if you want to cater to the many ( and get money from more people) you must cater to the bad and the average while throwing the good players a bone from time to time ( see Liadri, FOTM50, etc).

fireflyry.7023:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

You would like diversity in traits and skills within the gw2 meta?

http://dulfy.net/category/gw2/class-guides-gw2/

Enjoy!

lol.

Throwing a website up as rebuttal, from dulf no less. You have nothing to contribute then.Obviously you can’t speak for yourself.

hybrid.5027:

fireflyry.7023:

Djinn.9245:

Harper.4173:

I wonder if the people above going against the “meta” realize what meta means, what it is and why diversity is not and can never be a thing.

No, they don’t. If Berzerker gear is somehow made less favorable, something else will take its place.

That’s not about lack of understanding what “meta” means. It’s just that in this game it’s DPS first. Spam your chain with max DPS stats…period.

That’s not even remotely true. I can assure that when a Thief is using Black Powder or a mesmer casts Phantasmal Warden they aren’t doing it to increase DPS.

Thats the GW2 meta. Zerk.

Not really. Meta is the 2xele, 1xwarrior, 1x thief, 1x guardian team comp. The gear they wear isn’t nearly as important as the different weapon skills they have, using them in proper coordination and the judicious use of their utility kills.

Fact: the meta team comp with 5 skilled players wearing Soldier gear is superior to a group of the same 5 players using berserker gear and playing a bad comp of 4 mesmers 1 necro. Or even something lame like 3 warriors 2 rangers. Synergy of skills trumps secondary considerations like gearing.

In other games there is allowance for variation and diversity of skills, gear, classes, within that “meta”. That’s what it should be about. Allowing such diversity. To say it’s not and can never be a thing states absolute ignorance in regards to gaming history.

Actually you’re being ignorant since you clearly don’t understand the diversity as it exists in this game currently. The meta Ele build is 66200 S/F. Would you like me to explain all the different variations of this and why and how people change it to suit the situation or the group?

By and large “meta” is commonly recognised as a Greek prefix for “to go beyond” or more loosely to push boundaries or create and embrace diversity.

I don’t think anyone in gaming uses the term “meta” to mean what you’re doing. But hey, if you want to play pretend and make up whatever fake definition suits your needs go for it, but its an intellectually bankrupt maneuver.

I dig this post. Great response but your wrong. I don’t state such as personal opinion, just that the game and community directly states such. Have fun feeling superior or whatever though

Please stop trying to pass off personal opinions as being the community’s opinions. Have fun feeling relevant or whatever though

Star Ace.5207:

To summarize, I believe many players “hate” the meta due to past bad experiences with the LFG tool. Being insulted by a random jerk that has no clue of who you really are has to be super annoying, and surely a way to turn-off players from even doing Dungeons (or whatever else). Further aggravated by the immense amount of players who do use a random “meta” that actually isn’t, or are just sheep without the skill to pull out what they saw on a video-but still have the gall to insult others for “lack of skill”, and other pettiness. Thus the problem is not people who like “Berserker’s meta”, but the idiots that like to belittle others for doing things differently than they do (meta isn’t the problem-jerks are.)

Another regrettable aspect of this “debate” is quite often seeing the really good players refer to loose, non-meta builds as “atrocious”, “terribad”, etc., as if their forum audience were all part of their guild or speed run mentality. If these players just proclaimed the builds they dislike/would never use as merely “sub-optimal” (which truly they may be) vs calling alternate builds nasty epithets (a “bad” build for speed running may be fantastic for another player who is not even contemplating to speed run-which is a LOT of your readers) many would be less angry at people who enjoy their “meta-ness”.

In short, be fair to people, so they don’t bite you back. Nobody should enjoy being the object of ridicule for playing their way/being different than many/most. No need to treat others as inferiors for enjoying the game differently than you do (being a “snowflake” is actually a fair choice, and one not to be ridiculed.)

That said, I do not agree that the meta “shouldn’t exist”, because many players are drawn to that playstyle. Wisely make your own groups or only join those who at least appear to share your own vision of the game.

Rather, nobody likes a jerk or to be told they’re playing wrong.

The real ugly truth about the matter is that for all of this content the gains for playing meta (presuming they’re real) are utterly minimal. Saving 5-8 minutes on a dungeon has always struck me as a bizarre way to do it, especially if it means boring play.

If it were a difference of hours, or completion, sure there might be a point. In the vast majority of cases there isn’t.

5-8 minutes matter to some people. They matter to me.

If I wasted 5 minutes on each dungeon – provided I ran 3 per day that’s 15 minutes a day. That’s one hour every 4 days.
Assuming I played GW2 for about every day since release ( let’s say 350 days/year) that means 7 days – 7 entire days of my life wasted by slow dungeon runs.
It is a lot.

Also it’s not just the fact that the runs are slow – but wipes and taking a long time personally kill the experience for me. There’s no enjoyment in doing AC p1 in 30 minutes.