Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Ganzo.5079:

Galen Grey.4709:

Assassinin.4963:

But is there an OFFICIAL CLARIFICATION on this issue thus far? I afraid not. But no worry, the complaints will die down sooner than later (which I believe its the delay tactics Anet is using to tide them over this ‘crisis’) because those who complains but still cannot find closure to the issue would have left the game. I believe many of these players are having a fun time playing PlanetSide 2 now. Its a sad day for GW2.

The problem with an official clarification in my opinion is this issue has been so overblown and every single thing said has been jumped on analysed in detail and twisted to mean something negativite never intended that you’re not going to get an official reply before it has been vetted by a ton of people! No one is going to risk posting something that might be misinterpretted!

Really no.

if i ask you:
there will be a new tier after the ascended one?

if you reply:
no im not going to release a new tier every 3 months
you let the road open to misinformation

but if you reply
no, this is the last tier we release
or
yes this is only the beginning
How this can be misinterpreted?

Bet not even the CEO can take such a definitive position much less someone posting a clarrification that hasnt been vetted by god knows how many suits.

Things might also change in the future you cant really exclude anything! That to me is a no but at the same time reserving the right to change direction if needed. And yes I know what you’re going to say thats exactly what you dont want to hear but you have to understand its the best any business can do!

And dont get me wrong I dont want to see a new tier just as much as you if not more! But I understand there is a limit of how much any business can promise.

Of course you are right. In any business it’s foolish to never say never. But, unfortunately Arenanet’s statement has sowed the seed of doubt, and unless they give some kind of assurances, this uncertainty is going to continue.

If they even said ‘look, we would never say ’never’, but we have no plans right now, or in the future to add further tiers’ a lot of people would accept that.

Any intelligent person would understand that companies want to do the best by their business and to rule something out completely could be a very silly move.

Galen Grey.4709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

This reminds me of old, old Everquest and . . . hang on.

http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20020315
http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20020612

Yeah, this happened before in a game I played. Though it was quite a bit of a different game than Guild Wars 2 is, and the gear treadmill was . . . significantly more pronounced even as the first content patch rolled out for that game too. Come to think of it, there also was a whole lot of bugged things in that game. Though they usually denied it was broken until it was fixed; that’s where a phrase crept into MMO player language: “Broken as intended”.

Do you really believe that every company copies what every other company does exactly? If that where so dont you think every single game would be exactly the same?

Just cause something went in one direction in one game doesnt mean it will be exactly the same in every other game thats starts from the same starting point!

No, I don’t really think we’re going down the same path. At least I am hoping it’s not, to be honest. I liked that because, well, this sort of reaction about “The Vision” came to mind when people started with “The Manifesto is all-important”, which is strangely close to “design is law”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No, I don’t really think we’re going down the same path. At least I am hoping it’s not, to be honest. I liked that because, well, this sort of reaction about “The Vision” came to mind when people started with “The Manifesto is all-important”, which is strangely close to “design is law”.

This am good article: http://www.edge-online.com/features/design-law/

Raine.1394:

The issue hasn’t been overblown. The only thing I can suggest to help you understand the issue is to read the manifesto and the introduction of the Ascended gear piece side-by-side. If the non-sequitur doesn’t smack you in the face it’s probably best to just accept that some people get it rather than continuing to misrepresent the community’s reaction to the violation of the manifesto.

The problem I have is how many of you are trying to scare away players based on false assumptions. Violation of a manifesto? Read the ToS. They have the right to change the content and nature of the game to their liking. Things will change again, so if you can’t survive the “agony” now, well, what’s yet to come?

So what would you like to do at end-game if you don’t want to see any type of character progression? What should the next event be that won’t violate your terms of entitlement? I know, how about a knitting profession. That’s nice. You could sit by the fireplace in a tavern (when they allow your character to sit, because of course without that ability its impossible to rp) and knit scarves. Don’t worry, the scarves you craft carry no stat increase, no protection from the elements. Well, maybe a small 20% increase to warmth. But only a 20% increase when combined with the hat, gloves and booties. Although they don’t exist in the game yet, we’re not sure when and what stats we will have, let’s just assume 20%. This happened in Age of Conan, so we’re pretty sure it will happen here.

Oh, and the recipes for the hat,mittens, booties, and scarf…you may have to traverse the world. But not on a Monday morning. Not many play then, so it wouldn’t be much fun. So the patterns can only be found on Saturday night, EST prime time, and only in LA overflow. This mitigates any possible worry about population count while searching.

How long will it take to craft…possibly a full day. 24 hours played. That’s grind, you say? Well, what we could do is split the difference by having you craft only one bootie, half a scarf, the brim of the hat, and one mitten. That’s about 8 hours, because you need less material. Less to search for. The other half you can purchase on the TP for free. We don’t want you to expel more energy gathering gold than you already have to. We know you need some quality standing around time.

I’m all for this. This is progression at its finest.

slazzy.7309:

The problem I have is how many of you are trying to scare away players based on false assumptions. Violation of a manifesto? Read the ToS. They have the right to change the content and nature of the game to their liking.

What does the ToS have to do with all this? Nobody is saying they don’t have a legal right to change their game.

This is a problem of trust. Lying in most instances is not illegal (unless you are a witness in a trial or something to that extent), yet I don’t think you would trust somebody after they lied to you.

As someone else already pointed out, a MMO is a long term time and money investment, and you don’t invest in something that has an uncertain future because you can’t trust the company that sets the rules anymore.

Mandrax.7342:

Galen Grey.4709:

Ganzo.5079:

Galen Grey.4709:

Assassinin.4963:

But is there an OFFICIAL CLARIFICATION on this issue thus far? I afraid not. But no worry, the complaints will die down sooner than later (which I believe its the delay tactics Anet is using to tide them over this ‘crisis’) because those who complains but still cannot find closure to the issue would have left the game. I believe many of these players are having a fun time playing PlanetSide 2 now. Its a sad day for GW2.

The problem with an official clarification in my opinion is this issue has been so overblown and every single thing said has been jumped on analysed in detail and twisted to mean something negativite never intended that you’re not going to get an official reply before it has been vetted by a ton of people! No one is going to risk posting something that might be misinterpretted!

Really no.

if i ask you:
there will be a new tier after the ascended one?

if you reply:
no im not going to release a new tier every 3 months
you let the road open to misinformation

but if you reply
no, this is the last tier we release
or
yes this is only the beginning
How this can be misinterpreted?

Bet not even the CEO can take such a definitive position much less someone posting a clarrification that hasnt been vetted by god knows how many suits.

Things might also change in the future you cant really exclude anything! That to me is a no but at the same time reserving the right to change direction if needed. And yes I know what you’re going to say thats exactly what you dont want to hear but you have to understand its the best any business can do!

And dont get me wrong I dont want to see a new tier just as much as you if not more! But I understand there is a limit of how much any business can promise.

Of course you are right. In any business it’s foolish to never say never. But, unfortunately Arenanet’s statement has sowed the seed of doubt, and unless they give some kind of assurances, this uncertainty is going to continue.

If they even said ‘look, we would never say ’never’, but we have no plans right now, or in the future to add further tiers’ a lot of people would accept that.

Any intelligent person would understand that companies want to do the best by their business and to rule something out completely could be a very silly move.

My post can be kinda strange, i used that type of example only because my english is quite basic.
The mean of a such extreme example is only because in too many occasions, they had the opportunity to solve all this mess, using the proper words.
But they prefer use always PR oriented or dual faced expressions, and i think a lot of us are kinda exausted by this.

Urxx.6840:

What does the ToS have to do with all this? Nobody is saying they don’t have a legal right to change their game.

This is a problem of trust. Lying in most instances is not illegal (unless you are a witness in a trial or something to that extent), yet I don’t think you would trust somebody after they lied to you.

As someone else already pointed out, a MMO is a long term time and money investment, and you don’t invest in something that has an uncertain future because you can’t trust the company that sets the rules anymore.

The ToS has everything to do with it. You should expect them to change. And what did they lie about. What specifically.

If they said: “we promise we will never under any circumstance add any type of stat increase to a piece of gear above exotic and legendary ever” are they lying if they do? Or did things change? And why did they change?

“Well, we added some progression so players would have something to do. Many were asking about it. So we implemented something to help improve. "

“But..but you promised you wouldn’t, you promised!!” “You lied to us all!” “You said you wouldn’t, you said!”

When do the temper tantrums stop, dude? At what age?

Maybe you’re lying to yourself. Maybe that’s the lie.

DarcShriek.5829:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. Congratulations for losing your debate.

Don’t tell him. it’ll break his heart like when I explained the Gambler’s Fallacy to a bunch of people one day as they sat camping something on EverQuest.

DarcShriek.5829:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. Congratulations for losing your debate.

Slippery slope is not always a fallacy but it can be. We don’t have the information to know for sure. But once you start adding tiers it’s going to be hard to stop and your going to piss people off who now expect the treadmill.

DarcShriek.5829:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. Congratulations for losing your debate.

The term seems to be perfectly apt in this situation. There are only 2 possibilities. Either there is an end to the gear progression, or their isn’t. Previously, with exotics, there was. With ascended, we cannot see it.
They have said they added ascended gear for the “dedicated” who reached the “wall”. Ascended gear either keeps this wall moving away, or people hit it again.
If ANet stops the treadmill, people will hit the wall again. Then what does ANet do?
Either there is no end game again for these dedicated players, or ANet introduces a new treadmill.
As they have already done it once, there is precedence to do it again. They have to upset one group, might as well be the one who they upset last time, right.

I think I have made an argument which potentially makes “slippery slope” not fallacious in this situation.

slazzy.7309:

Urxx.6840:

What does the ToS have to do with all this? Nobody is saying they don’t have a legal right to change their game.

This is a problem of trust. Lying in most instances is not illegal (unless you are a witness in a trial or something to that extent), yet I don’t think you would trust somebody after they lied to you.

As someone else already pointed out, a MMO is a long term time and money investment, and you don’t invest in something that has an uncertain future because you can’t trust the company that sets the rules anymore.

The ToS has everything to do with it. You should expect them to change. And what did they lie about. What specifically.

If they said: “we promise we will never under any circumstance add any type of stat increase to a piece of gear above exotic and legendary ever” are they lying if they do? Or did things change? And why did they change?

“Well, we added some progression so players would have something to do. Many were asking about it. So we implemented something to help improve. "

“But..but you promised you wouldn’t, you promised!!” “You lied to us all!” “You said you wouldn’t, you said!”

When do the temper tantrums stop, dude? At what age?

Maybe you’re lying to yourself. Maybe that’s the lie.

Usually those who respond to the points made instead of getting all personal and trying to depict the counterpart as a whiny kid are more believable and constructive.

Nobody here is opposing change per se. I think it’s pretty obvious to everybody that an MMO is ever evolving in nature.

Still, if you don’t want your game to become a mess, its evolution should follow a direction. In the case of GW2, the direction was stated in the manifesto. I don’t even want to get caught in the semantics game and analyze every single word of it.

It was pretty clear that the stated DIRECTION of the developement and evolution of GW2 was to privilege horizontal as opposed to vertical progression.

The stated intention was to cater to those who were sick of grindy games. People bought GW2 specifically for that.

Now the direction has changed.

Had they said: “hey look, we really wanted to hold true to our manifesto, but unfortunately our game was losing players like it had 25 stacks of bleeding on it, and we were forced to change things.”. Those who are here bacause of the manifesto would have at least felt they were respected and not lied to.

The way they have handled the whole thing is way different: the manifesto is now toilet paper, vertical progression is now a reality, but they managed to deny that the introduction of more powerful gear is in fact vertical progression, like we were complete idiots.

You are welcome to accept to be treated like an idiot by a company, but you should understand those who don’t.

nastyjman.8207:

But after reading some of the posts here and thinking about it more and more, ANet should have stuck with their guns and not try to grab a chunk of the market now that WoW is teetering. GW2 should remain as a distinct MMO with no gear progression or a semblance of it. Instead of expanding their reach, they should have bolstered their core. The Ascended gear and the uproar it caused is a good indication that the players are pessimistic.

This.

They had a product strategy with core features to attract a niche market (those that hate gear treadmills/gear stat progression, or were tired of the traditional MMOs or had never played them). This is not my opinion. Mike O’Brien and his team said this. In marketing, this is called a value proposition (the benefit or value a person gets when they buy your product).

Now they have changed the value proposition. Whether it is a small or large change is not relevant. Many, like me, see it as a radical 180 turn and diminishing of the core value of the product.

Arenanet sold me a game that they said would not have gear stat progression. Then just 3 short months after I bought it, they introduced this feature. This is wrong and will not end well for them. Their credibility, brand and product are tarnished now.

slazzy.7309:

The problem I have is how many of you are trying to scare away players based on false assumptions.

Scare away players?

If someone reads their pre and post launch marketing materials that upheld the value of horizontal progression, what is wrong with telling them Arenanet has moved away from that.

Or are you actually suggesting that the introduction of the Ascended gear is not a new tier. Just a few months ago, we were told that Exotics would be the max stat gear. Arenant explained in their marketing materials what this meant for their game. Now they introduce gear with better stats, that is a new tier.

So yes, I will tell people that gear stat progression is now in the game. In fact, if this is such a great idea, Arenanet and you should want me to tell them. Isn’t this being done to attract people who like that.

Urxx.6840:

Usually those who respond to the points made instead of getting all personal and trying to depict the counterpart as a whiny kid are more believable and constructive.

Nobody here is opposing change per se. I think it’s pretty obvious to everybody that an MMO is ever evolving in nature.

Still, if you don’t want your game to become a mess, its evolution should follow a direction. In the case of GW2, the direction was stated in the manifesto. I don’t even want to get caught in the semantics game and analyze every single word of it.

It was pretty clear that the stated DIRECTION of the developement and evolution of GW2 was to privilege horizontal as opposed to vertical progression.

The stated intention was to cater to those who were sick of grindy games. People bought GW2 specifically for that.

Now the direction has changed.

Had they said: “hey look, we really wanted to hold true to our manifesto, but unfortunately our game was losing players like it had 25 stacks of bleeding on it, and we were forced to change things.”. Those who are here bacause of the manifesto would have at least felt they were respected and not lied to.

The way they have handled the whole thing is way different: the manifesto is now toilet paper, vertical progression is now a reality, but they managed to deny that the introduction of more powerful gear is in fact vertical progression, like we were complete idiots.

You are welcome to accept to be treated like an idiot by a company, but you should understand those who don’t.

Not only this, but the new tier design is kinda out of the game.

Before this, all the item had tier stats, decided by item level and rarity, and an upgrade slot.
The ascended tier broke this law, and introduce a whole new mechaninc that (for now) is not shared with all the existing content, the item have the rune bonus directly included, the upgrade slot is dissapeared and we have a totally new slot.

Now, maybe they only fail on the release timing, and when we see the whole machanic complete maybe its not so unbalanced as we think now, but whitout any kind of information, is like watch a bomb timer running , you have to do something before this bomb explode.

Galen Grey.4709:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not! Then you get statements like At max level there are only 2 zones to play in or to get everything in this game is a massive grind!

I bet one of the reasons why they created ascended armor / FoTM was because of such people who are now complaining about it saying it will deprive them of all the content they themselves chose to ignore anyway!

Then they made a bad call, because those people that are protesting now never asked for new tier of gear. Even those people that didn’t have anything to do (and those are not necessarily the same people – there are way more protesting now than were protesting before) asked mostly for new content. Level 80 zones, upgrade to lower level areas (so there’s more reason to go back to them), more skins, easier legendary options. Those that asked for new gear were a very, very tiny minority (about as minor as those that asked for the holy trinity). And most of those people already left the game anyway (and won’t come back).

Its just a game and in fact its their game not ours and thing always change or the game gets boring.

If you dont like what they did it might be time for you to leave and comeback in a year to see how the game changes maybe you will like it maybe you wont.

I never played the first GW so had no expections about this game but for ME i am having a blast and no amount of complaing can kill that for me right now.

Peaceout and happpy turkey day for the americans here.

Astralporing.1957:

Galen Grey.4709:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not! Then you get statements like At max level there are only 2 zones to play in or to get everything in this game is a massive grind!

I bet one of the reasons why they created ascended armor / FoTM was because of such people who are now complaining about it saying it will deprive them of all the content they themselves chose to ignore anyway!

Then they made a bad call, because those people that are protesting now never asked for new tier of gear. Even those people that didn’t have anything to do (and those are not necessarily the same people – there are way more protesting now than were protesting before) asked mostly for new content. Level 80 zones, upgrade to lower level areas (so there’s more reason to go back to them), more skins, easier legendary options. Those that asked for new gear were a very, very tiny minority (about as minor as those that asked for the holy trinity). And most of those people already left the game anyway (and won’t come back).

They made a bad call for us who dont like this sort of thing but we’re not all the different types of players! I am closing in on 500 hours and havent even touched 1/2 the zones! yet some people felt they played all there is to play in 200 hours. Some people consider content only stuff that make them progress in some way and thats for whom this dungeon is primarily for. The bad call in my opinion was probably thinking that players like me who dont care about that sort of thing would simply ignore ascended armor cause we dont really need it to do any of the content but they understantimated that players just want the best items at any cost even if they dont really need them!

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

what “huge assumption?”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

That’s the director of ANet’s game design saying there will be legendaries in every slot…. yet another “tier”.

he bad call in my opinion was probably thinking that players like me who dont care about that sort of thing would simply ignore ascended armor cause we dont really need it…

That’s not true, actually. This game scores you on dynamic events and chance to get loot from a mob by your share of damage done. If you don’t have ascended gear they just nerfed your ability to receive rewards for your participation in the game by giving others an unfair advantage.

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

No its not! I dont have any ascended armor, actually I dont even have a full set of exotics yet and thats gating what content for me exactly?

If I get a full ascended set does that mean I can no longer play say in queensdale because that content become absolete due to power creep? hmm nope still works.

Does it now require more time to reach max level? nope still one of the fastest MMO in which you reach Max Level

Are dynamic events no longer immersive story telling quests? nope they remain unchanged.

Is exploration no longer rewarding? well that didnt change either

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in sPvP like it would happen in other MMOs? hmmm nope still everyone has the exact same armor in sPvP

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in WvW? well I dont have a full set of exotics infact only 33% of my armor set is exotic the rest is rare yet my kill ratio in WvW is probably around 5:1 (as in I killed 5 people for every time I died)

so no, this change didnt change suddenly gw2 to become like any other MMO. 1 new tier alone doesnt create a gear grind and its entirely optional unless you want to take up FoTM seriously. Its mostly people perception that change! not saying it was a good change I dont agree with it either, I too believe ascended armor could be okey but should have had the same base stats as exotic armor but it changed nothing from what I love of this game! they simply added something I dont like nothing else!

Galen Grey.4709:

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

No its not! I dont have any ascended armor, actually I dont even have a full set of exotics yet and thats gating what content for me exactly?

If I get a full ascended set does that mean I can no longer play say in queensdale because that content become absolete due to power creep? hmm nope still works.

Does it now require more time to reach max level? nope still one of the fastest MMO in which you reach Max Level

Are dynamic events no longer immersive story telling quests? nope they remain unchanged.

Is exploration no longer rewarding? well that didnt change either

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in sPvP like it would happen in other MMOs? hmmm nope still everyone has the exact same armor in sPvP

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in WvW? well I dont have a full set of exotics infact only 33% of my armor set is exotic the rest is rare yet my kill ratio in WvW is probably around 5:1 (as in I killed 5 people for every time I died)

so no, this change didnt change suddenly gw2 to become like any other MMO. 1 new tier alone doesnt create a gear grind and its entirely optional unless you want to take up FoTM seriously. Its mostly people perception that change! not saying it was a good change I dont agree with it either, I too believe ascended armor could be okey but should have had the same base stats as exotic armor but it changed nothing from what I love of this game! they simply added something I dont like nothing else!

I see, so people are NOT.. I reapeat.. NOT complaining about being in lions arch overflows.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT complaining about progressively empty world zones where half the waypoints are perma-contested because the critical mass of players needed to defeat the world events is no longer there.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT unable to get groups for the pre-15th-patch content such as explorables since the fractals have come out.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT complaining about being told to bugger off and die because they’re not ascended level 10.

and that a 20% increase in stats, when applied to ALL gear rather than just two pieces as they are now will NOT.. i repeat NOT provide 20 trait points worth of boost which will effectively reduce the ability of people in non-ascended gear to get loot whenever you are present.

I’m starting to see shades of karl rove on fox news on 11/6/2012 as I ask you “is this just math you do to make yourself feel better?”

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

It is natural for people to make assumptions based on what they have already seen. We all do it hundreds of times a day. In my experience, people who are proactive tend to fare much better than those who are reactive.

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

Please atleast go and read Devs statements about the Asend gear before you feel need to educate us with your bits of wisdom.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

“The Future of Items Progression

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.
As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.
You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. We also have plans to add more fun ways to acquire Legendary precursor items with a more “scavenger hunt” feel than they are acquired currently.
The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).
I hope you are all as excited about these new items as I am!"

They are adding 2 tiers now. Legendary is a whole new tier of item stats. Before it was just a cool skin same stats. So Exotic is no longer end game tier, neither is Ascended .

Veltoss.9135:

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

No. We guys see that we’re in free fall since we left that balcony on november the 15th. Sure, for now the wind rushing past us and tearing at our hair isn’t hurting too much and who knows if that round big thing we’re heading for is gonna hurt on impact? Let’s wait and see.

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

Please go read https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

The Dev clearly states they are adding in more progression as time goes on.

slazzy.7309:

Raine.1394:

The issue hasn’t been overblown. The only thing I can suggest to help you understand the issue is to read the manifesto and the introduction of the Ascended gear piece side-by-side. If the non-sequitur doesn’t smack you in the face it’s probably best to just accept that some people get it rather than continuing to misrepresent the community’s reaction to the violation of the manifesto.

The problem I have is how many of you are trying to scare away players based on false assumptions.

I just know one: YOU

Violation of a manifesto? Read the ToS. They have the right to change the content and nature of the game to their liking. Things will change again, so if you can’t survive the “agony” now, well, what’s yet to come?

ToS = no legal value (even stnes knows that nowaday…..why do you even bother..)
Manifesto = legal value in europe…see false advertising.

So what would you like to do at end-game if you don’t want to see any type of character progression?

People were playing happy before the patch…
Forum was quite aside some balancing issues…

In game people was happy and collaborative…

Now it seems th community changed..i heard people insulting between them at least 1 fotm run out of 3….

Never heard any in dungeons before….

I’m all for this. This is progression at its finest.

And in fact you just made a post full of misinformations….trying to prevale with things not true….

This bothers me a lot….the most part of the community agreeing with “progression” are spreading disinformations all around.
Others instead outright open posts with personal attacks…

If you really thinks is not nly good but FAIR also try to tell your reasons….

Sometimes some comploctistic views made me thing to a bad habit i discovered in some mmorpgs……in order to manipulate community….

Yet it would only be a speculation not worth anything right now but i want really to hear some customers agreeing with the bait and switch thinking that is needed and fair to people who bought a game that was completely sold as a different thing…

If by “excited” he means “filled with murderous rage at being baited and switched into purchasing a wow clone” then yes, i’m “excited”.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Go read Veltoss.9135:
My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

“The Future of Items Progression

This is just the beginning" as qutoed from the article. Dev vvery clearly states we going to see more Ascended as time goes on and also a “new” Tier called legendary which was formanlly exotics with cool skins but is now a whole new tier above Ascended. So we will see exotic<Ascended<legendary. Instead of Exotic=Legendary…Wow a gear treadmill.

“However, you also have to understand that MMO unlike other genres of game requires persistent commitments of hundreds/thousands of hours and money from players. It is as much a commitments of emotion and loyalty to a game which they bring themselves to login to play everyday. MMO is like no other games and it is itself a long-term investment in a certain sense.”

I do like how you didn’t mention people playing MMOs for some of the main reasons you should game : Fun and enjoyment.

plasmacutter.2709:

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

what “huge assumption?”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

That’s the director of ANet’s game design saying there will be legendaries in every slot…. yet another “tier”.

he bad call in my opinion was probably thinking that players like me who dont care about that sort of thing would simply ignore ascended armor cause we dont really need it…

That’s not true, actually. This game scores you on dynamic events and chance to get loot from a mob by your share of damage done. If you don’t have ascended gear they just nerfed your ability to receive rewards for your participation in the game by giving others an unfair advantage.

I am afraid you’re wrong. Loot from a mob is based on doing a minium amound of damage. If there was an issue like you’re suggesting certain classes would have it really bad. I run a condition based Necro. Most of my attacks start off really slow doing 62 dmg per second when adding condition damage bonuses while a warrior would do something like 600 damage per second using hundred blades without factoring in any bonuses whatsoever. Yet I still tag mobs even when warriors are around.

As for Dynamic events, well I am 66% geared in rare items yet I always get gold except in the few rare occations where I join in an event late! you’re over estimating how much difference ascended gear does I think if you think there will so much more damage that you’ll be cut out from rewards because of it!

Mountain Man.7901:

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

It’s not assumptions. ArenaNet explicitly stated that the current Ascended gear and infusions are only “the first level” (read tier) and that they plan to “build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

You’re reading only what you want to apparently, you might want to try and comprehend the fact that she specifically mentions adding more ascended gear types, not tiers and more legendaries. When speaking about the first level, she’s speaking directly to infusions, which also comes from the fact that there already are 3 types, which could specifically mean more options as well for those types. i’m not nit-picking here, it’s what it says, not what’s somehow fantasized.

It’s funny when those who dislike the recent changes to the game are called out and branded as “whiners”, by others who conveniently forgot that all of us are customers, and the product we bought is subject to be criticized by us, it doesn’t need to be P2P for that.

I have never played WoW, and I’m lately kind of thinking I did good, and played different other titles, such as Rift, gear treadmill to the max, Tera Online, where you need to buy gear to do dungeons where that exact gear is dropped (absurd), elitist communities, gear checks, hell!, even item level everyone can see! – Do we what GW2 to be like that, seriously?

The ones calling others whiners are those who don’t have any sense of anticipation, Ascended gear is just a tier – Yes. Just the first of more to come. Why?

If you never played WoW like me and the first days of GW2 you tried to convince friends to join you, who played WoW, and asked you about the game, what where their reaction to “horizontal progression”?

“Blasphemy! That’s not possible! You need a Damage Dealer, a Tank and a Healer! That game cannot success! Every piece of armor at max level is balanced? Nonsense! I want to be stronger than others because I PLAYED MORE THAN THEM, THEREFORE, I WANT TO 1HITKO ANYONE IN PVP!”

- Those are just to name a few, examples of what some of WoW/Rift/Tera players said after inviting them to join the GW2 cause. The same player who would gladly join now, because what they demanded and wasn’t implemented, is coming to them.

This game was a game changer because in my eyes, it felt like a “Third Person Shooter” game. Let me explain, everyone can play Counter Strike, and everyone is equal, to the sense that all of us can get any weapon, which have different playstyles, but same “stats” across all players. PvP is kept the same, but WvW might change drastically with incoming Tiers of gear.

This game obviously needed better and cooler skins added over time, not stats, that’s a different league.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Incorrect. The gear treadmill is already here. We have already been informed that Ascended gear and infusions will be rolled out pretty much as fast as we can reasonably be expected to grind them out. This is a gear treadmill.

As for “slippery slope” it doesn’t apply since we already fell down a cliff. What was done already was bad enough.

plasmacutter.2709:

Galen Grey.4709:

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

No its not! I dont have any ascended armor, actually I dont even have a full set of exotics yet and thats gating what content for me exactly?

If I get a full ascended set does that mean I can no longer play say in queensdale because that content become absolete due to power creep? hmm nope still works.

Does it now require more time to reach max level? nope still one of the fastest MMO in which you reach Max Level

Are dynamic events no longer immersive story telling quests? nope they remain unchanged.

Is exploration no longer rewarding? well that didnt change either

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in sPvP like it would happen in other MMOs? hmmm nope still everyone has the exact same armor in sPvP

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in WvW? well I dont have a full set of exotics infact only 33% of my armor set is exotic the rest is rare yet my kill ratio in WvW is probably around 5:1 (as in I killed 5 people for every time I died)

so no, this change didnt change suddenly gw2 to become like any other MMO. 1 new tier alone doesnt create a gear grind and its entirely optional unless you want to take up FoTM seriously. Its mostly people perception that change! not saying it was a good change I dont agree with it either, I too believe ascended armor could be okey but should have had the same base stats as exotic armor but it changed nothing from what I love of this game! they simply added something I dont like nothing else!

I see, so people are NOT.. I reapeat.. NOT complaining about being in lions arch overflows.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT complaining about progressively empty world zones where half the waypoints are perma-contested because the critical mass of players needed to defeat the world events is no longer there.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT unable to get groups for the pre-15th-patch content such as explorables since the fractals have come out.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT complaining about being told to bugger off and die because they’re not ascended level 10.

and that a 20% increase in stats, when applied to ALL gear rather than just two pieces as they are now will NOT.. i repeat NOT provide 20 trait points worth of boost which will effectively reduce the ability of people in non-ascended gear to get loot whenever you are present.

I’m starting to see shades of karl rove on fox news on 11/6/2012 as I ask you “is this just math you do to make yourself feel better?”

hey I was replying to someone who said this change made gw2 the same like every other MMO, I simply pointed out the things that in my opinion at least for me make the game different then most other MMOs and pointed out how this change didnt do anything to them, is any of what I said false?

And funny you bring out the subject of inaccuracies. lets say ascended gear was 20% better (which it isnt) how would factoring all pieces together somehow make it better then 20% ? if an ascended ring is 20% better and an ascended chest piece is 20% better etc.. it would make afull set of ascended items 20% better then a full set of exotic items and not more!

now back to your claim of 20%

This can be kinda tricky to calculate, if we take a ring that has absolute stats no percentages such as say Khilbron’s Phylactery or Lost Seal of Usoku this has a 103,68,68 point spread compared to an exotic ring with an exotic jewel that has 92,63,63 making it 9% better not 20% some rings however like say red ring of death have percentages. The ascended ring provides 8% critical damage while the exotic ring provides 6% taking into account 12 armor pieces and assuming no other critical damage bonuses this would give someone with an ascended armor 246% critical damage and someone with exotic to 222% critical damage which would make the ascended armor 10% better not 20% better.

That being said lets take a rare ring + rare jewel, that gives an 80,55,55 point spread makeing the exotic ring a whole 13% better then a rare ring. So there is a bigger gap between rare and exotic then there is between exotic and ascended gear yet Like I said I who run in rares have yet to find this problem of tagging mobs or getting DE rewards. Are you really sure there is the issue you thing there is? Cause I am unconvinced.

Please if you think any of my math is deciving or wrong in any way feel free to correct me !

Moddo.7105:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

Please atleast go and read Devs statements about the Asend gear before you feel need to educate us with your bits of wisdom.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

They are adding 2 tiers now. Legendary is a whole new tier of item stats. Before it was just a cool skin same stats. So Exotic is no longer end game tier, neither is Ascended .

You people really want to hate the game right? how is legendary a whole new tier of item stats now when its identical to Ascended? Legendary is a cool skin like before only it mirrors the higher new tier rather then old highest tier!

also nothing in that post implies there will be a new tier in the near future, they simply said back and ring are the first items and in the future they will introduce the rest and continue the FoTM progression through more infusions.

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Incorrect. The gear treadmill is already here. We have already been informed that Ascended gear and infusions will be rolled out pretty much as fast as we can reasonably be expected to grind them out. This is a gear treadmill.

As for “slippery slope” it doesn’t apply since we already fell down a cliff. What was done already was bad enough.

Can you please copy and link the exact place where they say they plan to add more TIERs of gear? cause the only thing close to that I know of is this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” which says exactly the opposite! granted they didnt promise to never do it again which is to be expected no company will ever commit categorically to anything but it certainly doesnt mean they will do it either!

This was nothing more then to introduce a little progression on the side for people who want this and thats the FotM dungeon and the progression will not be in the form of new better gear but new and better level of infusions to counteract higher levels of agony !

This is not yet a threadmill. You dont even need exotic armor to play anything in this game much less ascended gear!

We are the new SWTOR, laughing stock of the MMO world!

I suppose the out of work bankers need more than their pay-offs to live on still, so they’re now trying to ‘monetise’ , and make the rest of us suffer for their sins, a different kind of world…

The weather has changed.

Galen Grey.4709:

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Incorrect. The gear treadmill is already here. We have already been informed that Ascended gear and infusions will be rolled out pretty much as fast as we can reasonably be expected to grind them out. This is a gear treadmill.

As for “slippery slope” it doesn’t apply since we already fell down a cliff. What was done already was bad enough.

Can you please copy and link the exact place where they say they plan to add more TIERs of gear? cause the only thing close to that I know of is this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” which says exactly the opposite! granted they didnt promise to never do it again which is to be expected no company will ever commit categorically to anything but it certainly doesnt mean they will do it either!

This was nothing more then to introduce a little progression on the side for people who want this and thats the FotM dungeon and the progression will not be in the form of new better gear but new and better level of infusions to counteract higher levels of agony !

This is not yet a threadmill. You dont even need exotic armor to play anything in this game much less ascended gear!

“Tier” of gear is irrelevant. Why are people so caught up in the semantics and labeling? Oh it’s not grind it’s “gear progression”… that makes it totally different!!

Fact is: There is new gear coming out in phases. This new gear has higher stats. You have to grind for this gear to keep up with the rate of its introduction.

How is this not a gear treadmill? Please.

BTW the “not every 3 months” post at best says nothing. Exact opposite? Too funny.

The fact that the ascended gear has any increase at all is the problem! So all those players who gathered exotics or spent money on the trade post get what now? A pat on the back and Anet pointing us to Fractal and saying “there’s the better gear, go get it”?

They could have easily added infusion onto the existing gear if they wanted “progression” in these dungeons alone, but by putting any increase in the gear they have already put in the fear that the gear treadmill is beginning.

What do you have that says this won’t happen again? Their word? Because it doesn’t seem like they need to keep it anymore, why stop now?

Maybe it won’t happen, maybe it will. The fact is they have gone against the very thing they said they didn’t want in their game and that trust is broken, gone, out the window, probably never getting it back.

You can spin it anyways you want, that it is a minicule change, that it doesn’t change anything, that it is the same game and you may be right. But they’ve still lied and gone back on their word and that’s all people need to decide not to support them anymore.

We don’t need you or Anet to prove that it’s not happening because it already is! You need to prove to us that it won’t happen again and trust me that’s a lot harder when we’ve already been lied to once!

Galen Grey.4709:

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Incorrect. The gear treadmill is already here. We have already been informed that Ascended gear and infusions will be rolled out pretty much as fast as we can reasonably be expected to grind them out. This is a gear treadmill.

As for “slippery slope” it doesn’t apply since we already fell down a cliff. What was done already was bad enough.

Can you please copy and link the exact place where they say they plan to add more TIERs of gear? cause the only thing close to that I know of is this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” which says exactly the opposite! granted they didnt promise to never do it again which is to be expected no company will ever commit categorically to anything but it certainly doesnt mean they will do it either!

This was nothing more then to introduce a little progression on the side for people who want this and thats the FotM dungeon and the progression will not be in the form of new better gear but new and better level of infusions to counteract higher levels of agony !

This is not yet a threadmill. You dont even need exotic armor to play anything in this game much less ascended gear!

This last part a little progression. Look whats happen with 2 bits of gear. Those bits of gear that Arenanet where saying never happens when advertising the game. People bought this game to jump into from time to time and not worry they get left behind like in other MMO’s. PvE and PvPer’s

Which I say again. Thats what they advertised. Been playing MMO’s long enough to know if this Little progression u call it is going to turn into more. If it brings in money it’s gonna happen end of.

I was so happy about this game. I have a family, I don’t have time to play MMO’s for 4-5 hours a night anymore. This game was my answer for still been able to play MMO’s and not get stuck at gated progression due to my real life commitments. But instead the MMO whiners and grinders got there way.

Shame on Arenanet

Fortuna.7259:

Galen Grey.4709:

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Incorrect. The gear treadmill is already here. We have already been informed that Ascended gear and infusions will be rolled out pretty much as fast as we can reasonably be expected to grind them out. This is a gear treadmill.

As for “slippery slope” it doesn’t apply since we already fell down a cliff. What was done already was bad enough.

Can you please copy and link the exact place where they say they plan to add more TIERs of gear? cause the only thing close to that I know of is this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” which says exactly the opposite! granted they didnt promise to never do it again which is to be expected no company will ever commit categorically to anything but it certainly doesnt mean they will do it either!

This was nothing more then to introduce a little progression on the side for people who want this and thats the FotM dungeon and the progression will not be in the form of new better gear but new and better level of infusions to counteract higher levels of agony !

This is not yet a threadmill. You dont even need exotic armor to play anything in this game much less ascended gear!

“Tier” of gear is irrelevant. Why are people so caught up in the semantics and labeling? Oh it’s not grind it’s “gear progression”… that makes it totally different!!

Fact is: There is new gear coming out in phases. This new gear has higher stats. You have to grind for this gear to keep up with the rate of its introduction.

How is this not a gear treadmill? Please.

BTW the “not every 3 months” post at best says nothing. Exact opposite? Too funny.

I am sorry but you’re the one who decided coming out in phases means new better stats, What I and many others understood by that was now we got rings and back items, next phase we might get amulates and earings. The phase after that Chest and legs etc..

You might be right, dont have any way of knowing for sure but neither do you!

Of course it does! not every 3 months might not mean never but the next part you conviniently ommited especially: “that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” certainly means they dont intend to create a threadmill. If its still unclear perhaps this might be a bit more to the point:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

“we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.”

If they do like you suggest and every phase they release new higher tier gear… Or well like you put it, same tier but higher stats, how would that not be an endless treadmill of gear thats always just out reach? I am still convinced the only progression they intend to do will be tied to infusions and thus only affect the dungeon and not the game at large!

obviously its still my personal theory, hopefully we’ll know more monday after the AMA

clydey.4963:

The fact that the ascended gear has any increase at all is the problem! So all those players who gathered exotics or spent money on the trade post get what now? A pat on the back and Anet pointing us to Fractal and saying “there’s the better gear, go get it”?

They could have easily added infusion onto the existing gear if they wanted “progression” in these dungeons alone, but by putting any increase in the gear they have already put in the fear that the gear treadmill is beginning.

What do you have that says this won’t happen again? Their word? Because it doesn’t seem like they need to keep it anymore, why stop now?

Maybe it won’t happen, maybe it will. The fact is they have gone against the very thing they said they didn’t want in their game and that trust is broken, gone, out the window, probably never getting it back.

You can spin it anyways you want, that it is a minicule change, that it doesn’t change anything, that it is the same game and you may be right. But they’ve still lied and gone back on their word and that’s all people need to decide not to support them anymore.

We don’t need you or Anet to prove that it’s not happening because it already is! You need to prove to us that it won’t happen again and trust me that’s a lot harder when we’ve already been lied to once!

lied how exactly? did they ever promise never to introduce any new tier gear after exotic? cause the only promise I know of is that content will not be gated by gear and no threadmill and while I dont like the increase in stats just like you it doesnt break any of those 2 promises!

Melonbrew.9681:

Galen Grey.4709:

Fortuna.7259:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Slippery slope? Yes. Gear treadmill? Not yet.

So all these people who are making a Huge Drama out of this and even quitting or asking for refunds, are overreacting terribly imo.

It’s one thing to sound an alarm. It’s another thing to let what might come ruin the fun you’re having and acting like an angry mob with too many pitchforks.

Incorrect. The gear treadmill is already here. We have already been informed that Ascended gear and infusions will be rolled out pretty much as fast as we can reasonably be expected to grind them out. This is a gear treadmill.

As for “slippery slope” it doesn’t apply since we already fell down a cliff. What was done already was bad enough.

Can you please copy and link the exact place where they say they plan to add more TIERs of gear? cause the only thing close to that I know of is this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” which says exactly the opposite! granted they didnt promise to never do it again which is to be expected no company will ever commit categorically to anything but it certainly doesnt mean they will do it either!

This was nothing more then to introduce a little progression on the side for people who want this and thats the FotM dungeon and the progression will not be in the form of new better gear but new and better level of infusions to counteract higher levels of agony !

This is not yet a threadmill. You dont even need exotic armor to play anything in this game much less ascended gear!

This last part a little progression. Look whats happen with 2 bits of gear. Those bits of gear that Arenanet where saying never happens when advertising the game. People bought this game to jump into from time to time and not worry they get left behind like in other MMO’s. PvE and PvPer’s

Which I say again. Thats what they advertised. Been playing MMO’s long enough to know if this Little progression u call it is going to turn into more. If it brings in money it’s gonna happen end of.

I was so happy about this game. I have a family, I don’t have time to play MMO’s for 4-5 hours a night anymore. This game was my answer for still been able to play MMO’s and not get stuck at gated progression due to my real life commitments. But instead the MMO whiners and grinders got there way.

Shame on Arenanet

How exactly not having ascended armor leave you behind in anything?
I dont even have a full set of exotics and am not left behind in anything! and thats considering rare → exotic is a bigger statistical jump then exotic → to Ascended!

unless you intend to play FoTM level 10+ Ascended armor is completely optional!
and not only that for PvE I would argue not having it is better then having because it will make the game even more easy then it already is!

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

Because for many people, if ArenaNet continues down this path, it WILL BE the apocalypse.

They can either:
a) shrug and say “it’s only small”… and simply pray that it doesn’t go any further, or
b) make their feelings known on forums, in the hopes that it will make ArenaNet stop and think twice about going any further down that path.

Many people are choosing b) and I don’t see anything wrong with that. It doesn’t automatically make them “whiners”, and it is grossly unfair to dismiss all such compaints by labelling them as such. Many (if not most) are complaining because they actually care about this game, and rather than silently quit – they’re trying to stop any further moves in a direction that they see as damaging to the game.

The only problem is the hysterical, inflammatory, insulting, etc ways that many people on each side express their opinions.

It serves no purpose to dismiss the complaints as simply whining, and likewise to dismiss positive responses as fanboyist/apologist. People need to make their cases for either side, without any of that… and in a calm and non-inflamatory way. And then maybe, just maybe, there won’t be so many deleted/locked threads :-/

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

And in this three-abreast column of MMOG racing, the growth of player ambivalence will hasten, and the cross-examination of competition will continue to doom games that try to emulate World of Warcraft, instead of being something unique to quench the thirst of a player grown tired of the hackneyed hamster wheel they’re reduced to every time they send Blizzard a monthly check.

Galen Grey.4709:

lied how exactly? did they ever promise never to introduce any new tier gear after exotic? cause the only promise I know of is that content will not be gated by gear and no threadmill and while I dont like the increase in stats just like you it doesnt break any of those 2 promises!

The gear that they have recently added is still a step above the old gear. This means that my gear (only have a couple of pieces of exotics) is still not the best in game. They have stated they are adding more so the entire set will eventually be replaced. While the whole argument of what a gear treadmill is a little shakey it is still the signs of one.

The question we have to ask is, why put in better stats if it wasn’t for this purpose? I want to be wrong but I see no reason as to why they would even bother with an upgrade of stats on the new gear unless they wanted to create a treadmill.

The whole “it is the bridge the gap between exotic and legendary” doesn’t hold water, exotics were still as good as legendary and now adding the ascended gear all they’ve done is add a new tier while bumping legendaries up to the stats of the new gear. That’s not filling a gap, that’s creating a new step. There was no gap to fill.

The fact that there is an increase at all, worries me greatly.

Ascended gear/agony is part of the lore.
Farming ectos and powerful blood isn’t that hard after being lvl80 for a while.
GW2’s ending is all about farming mats to get new skins.

So to me it sounds like you’ll still be grinding for mats as you were before Lost Shores, except that this time there is new gear that still fits in with the lore.

Anet said they would release legendary armors and more legendary weapons eventualy. As long as legendary remains the top tier, there is no real reason to worry about anything.

Are you guys going to over-react as well when they release an expansion pack and the level cap is most likely increased ?

If you are a fan of GW2, farming mats shouldn’t be a problem for you. If you don’t understand why you should farm AKA grind mats, then chances are you aren’t even lvl80 yet and then why should your feedback matter on endgame issues since you don’t have a clue ?

Being worried doesn’t give you “carte blanche” to act-up as a child would. If you actually happen to be a child, then maybe your parents should not let you vent on forums too much…

No promises were broken. Gear progression was always coming to GW2, they just haven’t implemented it yet. There is a big difference between adding a tier that makes sense and continously moving the goal. Let them do their job first, then you can have an informed opinion which you would be more than welcome to share.
But nobody wants to hear a child kicking and screaming. That isn’t an opinion, it’s a tantrum.

Groovy.6749:

Ascended gear/agony is part of the lore.
Farming ectos and powerful blood isn’t that hard after being lvl80 for a while.
GW2’s ending is all about farming mats to get new skins.

So to me it sounds like you’ll still be grinding for mats as you were before Lost Shores, except that this time there is new gear that still fits in with the lore.

Anet said they would release legendary armors and more legendary weapons eventualy. As long as legendary remains the top tier, there is no real reason to worry about anything.

Are you guys going to over-react as well when they release an expansion pack and the level cap is most likely increased ?

If you are a fan of GW2, farming mats shouldn’t be a problem for you. If you don’t understand why you should farm AKA grind mats, then chances are you aren’t even lvl80 yet and then why should your feedback matter on endgame issues since you don’t have a clue ?

Being worried doesn’t give you “carte blanche” to act-up as a child would. If you actually happen to be a child, then maybe your parents should not let you vent on forums too much…

No promises were broken. Gear progression was always coming to GW2, they just haven’t implemented it yet. There is a big difference between adding a tier that makes sense and continously moving the goal. Let them do their job first, then you can have an informed opinion which you would be more than welcome to share.
But nobody wants to hear a child kicking and screaming. That isn’t an opinion, it’s a tantrum.

Please don’t pantronize us with the “parent” act.

They promised us a game which would be inclusive, not penalize people for avoiding aspects of the game they did not like, not encourage people to exclude others or act selfishly, and not give superior rewards for one aspect of the game, thus baiting people by human nature to abandon the rest of it. Above all, they promised a game where skill mattered.

This change has done that.

The agony mechanic and the related implementation of the dungeon tiering system has resulted in extreme levels of exclusion and elitism. The description of the mechanic reads like a slow-motion slap-in-the-face to those who were looking for skill-based play “no matter how good you are, you will never avoid this mechanic, it’s literally there just to pad numbers against your favor”

If you don’t do fractals, those who do get an unfair advantage over you in the rest of the game.

Thus, everyone is compelled into fractals, and the rest of the world is emptying, thus those who don’t do fractals also lose the chance to do non-fractal dungeons and in many cases group world events.. the ones Anet had spent years in beta developing.

At the same time Lion’s arch has gone from a peaceful, cooperative place to the same squabbling previously seen in stormwind or orgrimmar trade chat! (“LFM FotM, must be level 10, have x ‘gearscore’” … “Yur ascended lvl 2, DIAF bad”… W..T..F)

ArenaNet has categorically welched on its repeatedly emphasized principles with this patch. Its core test group said it, and we’ve been saying it, and if they dont listen, they will lose their loyal crowd for good, then 6 months later, everyone who wanted their precious treadmill will move to the next hot MMO, or back to WoW, and leave their game, which did had does have so much potential, as a desiccated husk.

Enzomiles.6197:

From my perspective, the style of World of Warcraft is kind of like the minor leagues of gaming. There is a lot of competition and everyone is competing to be the best. The pinnacle is to get to the big leagues which is raiding. It’s content that not everyone will see or be a part of and only the best of the best get there and the best rewards goes to those who get there. I played wow for years and was burned out and treated poorly by other players because I didn’t have what it takes to get there. This style fits for some people, and I understand the appeal, it’s just not for me.

The style of Guild Wars is more like the movie Sandlot. You play hard but no one is keeping score and stats don’t matter much. Everyone gets their time at bat and you play not to reach some goal but just because it’s fun. Guild wars had this niche and a lot of people got this game because it wasn’t like wow and it felt like home to me.

But things are changing to try to cater to a bigger audience but it’s a huge mistake because it’s not possible to make both styles happy. GW2 is moving towards wow light and GW2 is going to be second rate because wow does this style better. There is going to be those that want the wow style of always progressing and reaching for the next best thing so that they can be the best and be a step above everyone else. Once they reach the top it will not be enough because sooner or later it will not be exclusive enough. Those that don’t play the rat race will be left behind sitting the bench. You already split the community and whatever you decide to do now…it will not end well.

Well said!

Indeed!

It wasn’t why most of us came here …