Guild Wars 2

Lordrosicky.5813:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Evidence for anything you have said = nothing.

Your not smart or clever. We all understand your boring viewpoint now so kindly move along and let us be sad in peace.

Evidence is their update. Also, it’s hard for us to be happy in peace when all the threads are being merged into this depressing ragefest.

That isn’t evidence though is it. The only people happy are forum trolls who probably have $0 spent in the gem store and have played under 100 hours or havent played much in weeks. nobody cares about them. I play the game and promise you that almost everyone thinks this is the worst update in the history of gaming. This is the fork in the road and the beginning of the end for guild wars 2.

Or the happy people could be people who give more credit to the game than you guys. shrug Whether it’s the end, I’m going to play. Sorry to see you leave because I think it’s fun. And no, I do not play WoW before shots fire off. I played Maplestory which I hated gear grinding and the 200 lvl system and I played Dragon Nest, which I enjoyed a lot because of the combat system but it didn’t have enough lore. Gw2 is my happy medium.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Ralph Koster (UO, SWG) had this idea that gamers had to create their own content, because hardcore gamers would exhaust it, before they could make new content, making everyone miserable.

His idea was that when you have world pvp, or a player run economy, players are competing against other players in a never ending activity. that in itself is a sandbox, where the possibilities and manipluative game systems are the content itself.
people can have fun for years just fighting over territory or be engaged in highly competitive matches to be the best. We know it from other game genres as well. people playing the same maps for years and years.

I think Anet should embrace the dynamic nature of GW2 and move away from the instanced dungeons. they are a relic, and not very social or MMOish. I would rather do more stuff in Tyria. in the open world. change things, take over towns, raise taxes on passing players and npcs. leave my mark on the world, take over places with the guild.

and thats why Eve Online is a cult.
not easily accessible, but definitely more revolutionary than gw2.

player created content is KEY

Creslin.1758:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I read the blogpost again and noticed a little detail:

Ascended items (rings, backback) do not have a rune-slot. Rune-stats are worked into the item.

So unless you want to spec for a very specific way these items might not be as useful as one might think. Technically the new tier has better stats, (which is normal for a new tier) BUT those stats are given and can’t necessarily be individualized to go well with your build. You might want an Exotic Ring instead of a Ascended, depending on your build.

It’s bad though that it looks like we have to go to the new dungeon in order to get the Ascended Ring in the first place. The mats for infusion are probably the rewards for getting farther in the dungeon (which would make sense) and balancing will be much easier for Anet if the players stats aren’t random but given (through the new Ascended items) —> much easier to finetune difficulty for really difficult encounters.

If you look at the stats on the ascended ring vs. the exotic ring…the stats on the ascended are significantly better than the exotic, even considering the gem slotted.

What rings were -you- looking at? I see +5 Power, +5 Precision and +3% Magic Find, hardly enough to be called ‘significantly better’. The gem stats are built into the ascended ring because the slot you get on it will likely only be able to hold very specific bonuses which will probably only be effective in that new dungeon.

I thought ANet had said they LISTENED to the community? I’m sure if we had a poll, the % of people who DON"T want ascended gear would far exceed the ones that do.

One of the main draws to the game is the laid back no grind approach (which tbf still exists) but has made it a lot more accessible for players to enjoy end-game content without having to grind too much to get there.. If after only a few months they’re adding a new gear tier, what will they do when the hardcore players have got all the ascended stuff? Raise the vertical climb even more..? Many casual players are still on the road to 80 and/or still saving for those shiny exotics. is there much need to bother with them now that there’s a higher tier? I certainly won’t be yelling LFG CoF/AC and the likes anymore.

Gear should be a vanity thing, not to have the edge over other players by having superior stats.. Why can’t everyone be on an even playing field but with the veterans who have put time into creating legendaries and the likes standing out from the crowd simply by looks and skill rather than hitting the bigger numbers.

1. The stat spread between Ascended and Exotic is almost the same as the stat spread between Rare and Exotic, 8%. It’s not 30% or 9000%, it is 8%, just like the difference between all the other tiers of gear.

The devs simply decided that exotic was too easy to get. There was not enough gear progression from Blue→Green→Yellow→Orange and then there was a HUUUUGGGGEEE gap between Orange→ Red.

They wanted players to have a more even flow in the game. So now they added a step between Orange→ Red, it now goes Orange→Pink→Red. The means everyone gets a more even progression and something to work towards.

2. This really doesn’t effect WvWvW. The whole point in WvW is that everyone is scaled to 80. Gear does make a difference, but rarely. After spending about 50 hours in WvW I can think of MAYBE 2 instances where my gear mattered, and even then it was mostly skill. However this should be a non-issue either way as there is a very simple fix. Make the badge armor in WvW ascended level and make it ONLY wearable in WvW. Problem solved.

3. The added stats on Ascended gear is NOT I repeat NOT a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is adding in gear with significantly higher stats so you can clear content that is otherwise unclearable without said gear. This is not the case here. Ascended gear is in no way required to beat anything in the game. You can see 100% of the content in the game without ever getting ascended gear. Just like you can currently see 100% of the content in the game without getting exotic gear.

4. Agony is a difficulty gate, not a content gate. I’m 99.999% sure that you will be able to see all 9 mini dungeons without any agony resist. The only thing agony is restricting is the higher difficulty levels of those same dungeons. This means that the “hardcore” people who want to go to extreme levels have something to work towards and a reason to do it, while people who just want to see the content can without having to worry about it at all.

Please take a deep breath and don’t panic, this is not the end of the world.

pvtpublic.8752:

haha who cares. all this hate. There is barely anything to do in the game right now besides mindless karma farming and leveling new characters to 80. At least this gives you something to do. The player base is bored!

I’m In the mood to bite some baits, so I’ll hop on this one.
It had several options for karma farming: Ones being more “effective” than the other ones. Way different than Ascended gear, that gives dungeons as the ONLY viable option to adquire such gear. Which Is a bad thing.

I’m of two minds.

On one hand, this goes against everything ANet said (so soon?) about gear not being tiered. It hasn’t even been 6 months and already we’re getting another tier of gear? That’s laughable. It’s honestly truly pathetic that they are this full of dookie. So much for the manifesto and different design philosophies!

On the other hand, this game severely lacks for things to EARN in PvE. Eastern grinds for rare items or exotics made via MF isn’t earning. Getting cool precursors or named exotics via MF is luck, not earning. Luck-based loot like how MF works in GW2 is utterly lame.

Doing dungeons, beating bosses, seeing that huge chest, and having it drop a couple generic blue pieces of vendor trash you can get off of any mob in the game is a major joke. Dungeons in this game lack the punch you get out of dungeons in ANY other rpg where beating bosses means getting some kind of reward, even if it’s crap you don’t need or want – it’s at least there’s something potentially remarkable about it.

So, while I’m kind of upset that ANet has already shifted on a core design philosophy that was a driving force for this game, they needed to do SOMETHING to make dungeon loot something more special than perpetual generic vendor trash. I’m not sure this was the answer, since it’s a slap in the face of everyone who bought into their manifesto and philosophies, but it’s something.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Tyr.1965:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Tyr.1965:

Crackbone.5710:

There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

Let the carrot be fun, instead of more stats. Why can’t they just release the new dungeon with the new mechanic but NOT make the gear any better than exotics? They are blatantly trying to appeal to the WoW crowd that only plays to constantly upgrade their gear.

What if I told you the carrot was fun and it had more stats?

The fact that it has more stats forces every competitive player to acquire it in order to reattain equal footing with everyone else, like it was before they decided to introduce this. Success should be defined by skill, not gear. With this new dungeon, they’re making it about gear. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be able to complete the dungeon. If you don’t have the gear, you won’t be equally geared with the players that do have it in WvW. The mindset of a PvP’er is to gain any edge they possibly can to achieve victory. They will go after this new gear because it has a stat increase over what they’re using. Now they have to do PvE to get the gear they need to PvP. Even this wouldn’t go over well in Warcraft.

PvP already has its on realm that cannot be pierced by PvE content. WvW and PvE should not be affected by it, it will not be a significant factor in anything..

There is no PvP gear in this game. It’s just gear. Right now, everyone is wearing exotics. You can get those exotics from a ton of different places. Now they’re introducing a new set of gear that is more powerful than exotics and you can only get it from one particular dungeon. Thats a problem.

Is this going to become the NGE of GW2?

I know a lot of us are not happy about the ascended gear, but the game as a whole is still very good. It’s not perfect, but very good. There’s been lots of discussion in the ascended gear thread about the “pros” and “cons” of ascended gear and some people intending to be done with the game. That discussion is very important, but Arenanet can’t really make design decisions based on forum threads, there’s just too many things that can be problematic.

Now, as far as I can tell, based on the information we have from game journalism sites and from the blog post, the ascended gear is not intended for me and therefore The Lost Shores content probably isn’t either, so I’ve elected to not play it. I will still play Guild Wars 2 as I still find the game quite enjoyable, but I will skip this content.

This is the first “Invite a Friend” weekend and I’m not sure what I will be telling them, but I will be playing with them in the content that I know is good. If they ask about The Lost Shores, I will have to tell them about my disappointment with the ascended gear. That’s the reality of the situation.

The only way Arenanet will be able to properly gauge the reaction to ascended gear will be in game, so I’d like to encourage anyone who is unhappy with the decision to please keep discussing it in the forums, but also boycott The Lost Shores content. That will, in my opinion, speak much louder.

Josh

Funny they touch the only thing works fine in this game…

We are so bored and have nothign to do.Because every event in 80 zones is tier bugged or botted and or exploited im sick of seeing commander marks t gliched event farming the exploit its really a smackin the face speicaly on servers that actuly have arah event up on top of the bug and glitchs anet dont even fix and they just adding new content what another slap in the face to paying customers.. oh well i recomend checking out swtor on the 15th its free to play on the 15th no more sub fees i hope this will light a fire under anets toes to fix bug and stopp adding stuff befor its time not that we are bored we arent alowwed to do anythign in this buggy game thats why we are bored.

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

People are mad because they just found out they have been cheated and lied to for years.

Pretty much. So much for the manifesto. So much for a different design philosophy. It hasn’t even been 6 months and already another tier of gear in game that wasn’t going to have gear tiers.

This kind of kills ANet’s credibility.

Quitting + getting a refund is essentially boycotting.

showatt.9413:

Enemy becoming harder is …..bad?

But they aren’t becoming harder, are they? You get better gear to keep up with them.

Cheated? You spent 60 dollars for the game. If you chose to buy gems that was prerogative.

It’s hardly a gear treadmill. They are adding 2 items at this time. TWO. A much needed back slot and a ring. OMGZSOOPNOW.

They are raising legendaries to match that. You guys kitten over and over about changing mobs to have something other then HP Pools. Here they are omgzthissucks.

Very little information has been given and some huge assumptions have been made.

Offensive, Defensive, Omni infusion. No information as to what they look but let be an kitten and assume.

Offensive= Dmg% to creature type. Defensive= agony mitigator. Omni= a bit of both. Do I know for sure NO. Why the patch isn’t LIVE yet.

Whine some more you assuming kitten.

If they want to make money and keep people playing add more stuff to Gem store. Just because people are stuck in a tread mill wont give them more money if there isn’t anything worth buying except gold.

So these guys who tore through the ENTIRE kittenING GAME within a month after release…

… these guys you are choosing to court at the expense of your company reputation and loyal playerbase…

How long do you think it will take them to get this new gear?
How quickly do you plan to release stuff for them?

I really want to know if this is a one time adjustment, and Ascended Gear will be the true top tier – using infusions for carrot-chasers, or if instead Ascended Gear will be trickled out until it’s done, and followed up with another new set.

Ridley.3691:

Creslin.1758:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I read the blogpost again and noticed a little detail:

Ascended items (rings, backback) do not have a rune-slot. Rune-stats are worked into the item.

So unless you want to spec for a very specific way these items might not be as useful as one might think. Technically the new tier has better stats, (which is normal for a new tier) BUT those stats are given and can’t necessarily be individualized to go well with your build. You might want an Exotic Ring instead of a Ascended, depending on your build.

It’s bad though that it looks like we have to go to the new dungeon in order to get the Ascended Ring in the first place. The mats for infusion are probably the rewards for getting farther in the dungeon (which would make sense) and balancing will be much easier for Anet if the players stats aren’t random but given (through the new Ascended items) —> much easier to finetune difficulty for really difficult encounters.

If you look at the stats on the ascended ring vs. the exotic ring…the stats on the ascended are significantly better than the exotic, even considering the gem slotted.

What rings were -you- looking at? I see +5 Power, +5 Precision and +3% Magic Find, hardly enough to be called ‘significantly better’. The gem stats are built into the ascended ring because the slot you get on it will likely only be able to hold very specific bonuses which will probably only be effective in that new dungeon.

It is a lot for magic find gear. 3% is the magic find that comes on one piece of magic find armor. Having that set would be like wearing a second set of magic find armor.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

3. The added stats on Ascended gear is NOT I repeat NOT a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is adding in gear with significantly higher stats so you can clear content that is otherwise unclearable without said gear. This is not the case here. Ascended gear is in no way required to beat anything in the game. You can see 100% of the content in the game without ever getting ascended gear. Just like you can currently see 100% of the content in the game without getting exotic gear.

I was using suboptimal gear. I grinded money to get the best gear available. A patch came in and now the best gear available isn’t exotic it’s ascended. The treadmill just sent be back to step one : I am using suboptimal gear.

This is a treadmill.

How much would you pay for an exotic ring + gem before the patch? Around 2.5-3g for an exotic 80. Now that you know there’s a plain better ring available with the only infusion slot required to make the best use out of the new dungeon. How much are you ready to pay to get a 80 exotic ring?

Jeez…gamers are getting a bit nasty if your asking me.Where are the days where people were actually happy about anything and Stop complaining all the kitten time.Arent you guys getting tired of yourselfs ?

Crater.1625:

showatt.9413:

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

… What?

A dungeon’s difficulty depends on how strong the dungeon is relative to the strength of the players. It doesn’t magically get harder when the numbers go up if your numbers are going up at the same rate, and increasing the dungeon’s numbers without touching your numbers increases the difficulty without introducing a gear grind.

In fact, what you’re asking for with new equipment tiers is for the game’s overall content to be reduced in difficulty. The newest, toughest dungeon will be set according to the level of power you can achieve by getting the new equipment from that dungeon, and every single earlier dungeon gets progressively easier and easier, because it was designed and balanced around a maximum equipment power level lower than what you’re now using.

This is a contradiction that’s been pointed out to those who are proponents of this change numerous times in this thread. It’s yet to be seriously addressed.

Couple this with the fallacy that NCSoft took a hit in their 3Q financials as a result of losing money to this game and we really have lost every argument for the new tier of gear.

doesn’t matter if the new gear added +1 stat, the fact it adds any is a lie to every player who purchased the game. Tons of people are preparing to leave this game once the treadmill sets in.

I as a player who only plays this game for WvW feel backstabbed like never before in another game. If it comes out, that this new armor with better stats will be usable in WvW, i will quit the game and might even contact my lawyer to make an example. I am already collecting official quotes of employees about the merchandising of GW2 not being a gear grind game. I know this must sound ridiculous to most, but this is for me an obvious case of fraud to the customer. Lets see what my lawyer says.

For the first time in an MMO, I have the very best gear available. I was lead to believe that I would never have to upgrade in order to keep up with that.

I was NOT one of the people complaining they had nothing to do. I had PLENTY of things to do each time I logged in, and still more stuff on my to do list. I didn’t ask for more to keep me busy, and now I feel like I’m going to be forced to do things I didn’t really want to, taking my time away from things I really did.

I get that there’s only a couple of pieces of new gear, which will grow to more over time. So what happens when all of the ascended gear has been released, and I’ve spent all that time getting it? Will they release yet another tier then?

I truly thought this game was different- a game that wouldn’t cave to the masses that can’t handle life outside the Skinner box. I guess I was wrong.

nachtnebel.9168:

showatt.9413:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Perfectly said.

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

Difficulty has nothing to do with gear progression. Things don’t get more difficult just because all numbers get higher.

Difficulty has a lot to do with gear progression. Things do get more difficult because numbers are higher.

AC and Arah, which dungeon’s mob is harder to kill? I’d say AC. why?

Simply because Arah is designed for level 80s wearing lvl 80 gears, while AC is designed for lower lvls. But thanks to the content scaling, even lvl 80 players can struggle sometimes. That is not to say dungeon difficulty has nothing to do with gears.

That would be cool if it was gear upgrades. At least then it wouldn’t hurt the crafting markets.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

May I ask what you are basing your assertion that GW2 is essentially in a downward spiral on? Please do not say XFire.

Feel betrayed.

One of the main reasons i´m playing GW2 was for the non stat-grinding & not raid centered endgame…

Today one of those 2 promises is broken…what´s next?
a healer class to bring trinity back? Raiding & Tiers?

I don´t like the direction this game is taking :/

I really hope you implement it someway it doesn´t destroy your own philosophy.
Most of the GW fans are here for those reasons.

prenavo.3926:

Metafrank.9017:

prenavo.3926:

This question only works if the majority of the games population answers this question. For that the majority of the players would have to be on the forums. I’m pretty sure more than half of the people who play never visit the forums.

So who were the people that were for it? Because Linsay states that the decision was made due to feedback of the community. Well, it’s certainly not THIS community, I think that is pretty obvious now.

This is actually something that I’d love to know myself. I really wish they would tell us exactly how they find out this stuff. I’m all for the new content coming in, but this one thing remains a mystery to everyone. To be fair, I think it’s something we should all know the specifics of.

This. Quoted and bolded for truth.

Because if the devs haven’t noticed by now, the feedback since the announcement has been overwhelmingly negative. So the question becomes, who the kitten thought this was a good idea and who the kitten is actually getting precedence (suggestions-wise)? Several popular and oft-asked for features eg. TP preview, FoV slider, appearance change, guild halls etc. have not been added, yet Anet had the time to implement this kind of nonsense.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

1. The stat spread between Ascended and Exotic is almost the same as the stat spread between Rare and Exotic, 8%. It’s not 30% or 9000%, it is 8%, just like the difference between all the other tiers of gear.

The devs simply decided that exotic was too easy to get. There was not enough gear progression from Blue->Green->Yellow->Orange and then there was a HUUUUGGGGEEE gap between Orange-> Red.

They wanted players to have a more even flow in the game. So now they added a step between Orange-> Red, it now goes Orange->Pink->Red. The means everyone gets a more even progression and something to work towards.

2. This really doesn’t effect WvWvW. The whole point in WvW is that everyone is scaled to 80. Gear does make a difference, but rarely. After spending about 50 hours in WvW I can think of MAYBE 2 instances where my gear mattered, and even then it was mostly skill. However this should be a non-issue either way as there is a very simple fix. Make the badge armor in WvW ascended level and make it ONLY wearable in WvW. Problem solved.

3. The added stats on Ascended gear is NOT I repeat NOT a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is adding in gear with significantly higher stats so you can clear content that is otherwise unclearable without said gear. This is not the case here. Ascended gear is in no way required to beat anything in the game. You can see 100% of the content in the game without ever getting ascended gear. Just like you can currently see 100% of the content in the game without getting exotic gear.

4. Agony is a difficulty gate, not a content gate. I’m 99.999% sure that you will be able to see all 9 mini dungeons without any agony resist. The only thing agony is restricting is the higher difficulty levels of those same dungeons. This means that the “hardcore” people who want to go to extreme levels have something to work towards and a reason to do it, while people who just want to see the content can without having to worry about it at all.

Please take a deep breath and don’t panic, this is not the end of the world.

exotic easy to get? maybe yes, but maybe you have forget that this was one of the promises made to us… Maxed stats without wait months, and then grind for better look.
And if its a only 8% stats difference, this is made the exotic gear obsolete in any case, because if i have my yellow rare set, and i have to choose between a +8% stats for exotics, or +16% stats from ascent, i choose the second one! and i go on dungeon with my crappy yellow gear.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Quitting + getting a refund is essentially boycotting.

Agreed, and technically it is a stronger message, but I feel it’s probably too rash often times (plus I doubt you’ll get a refund). If you are that serious about quitting, then by all means do so, but I would like to encourage everyone to consider this lesser boycott to start with.

Angel.1435:

I thought ANet had said they LISTENED to the community? I’m sure if we had a poll, the % of people who DON"T want ascended gear would far exceed the ones that do.

I tried to open a poll-thread on its own in this forum. Just to get a simple “yes/no to ascended gears” from the userbase.

A moderator decided to merge it here. If you check there’re quite some “yes/no” replies in this thread: they’re replies to that other poll thread. And of course it’s been killed by the zelousness of a moderator.

I can assure you, though, that the trend was clear: the NAYs were outnumbering heavily the AYEs.

Completely revamp how sPvP and PvE interact with each other.

1.) Have you use your PvE character armor/weapon skins in sPvP.
2.) Have weapon/armor skins (like Legendaries) NOT AVAILABLE in PvE acquired through sPvP, WvW, other game modes.
3.) Have your sPvP end game.

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

So they add vertical progression just like every other MMO on the market to retain and bring back some players?
I think the 2004 old things here are your thoughts.
I think 2004 old thought is think this vertical progression is the only solution to a problem that MIGHT not exist since you are NOT from ANET.

If Arenanet released legendary armor tomorrow, players would complain ascended gear isn’t strong enough.

Reevac.1748:

It’s hardly a gear treadmill. They are adding 2 items at this time. TWO. A much needed back slot and a ring. OMGZSOOPNOW.

The Future of Items Progression

This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.
As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. We also have plans to add more fun ways to acquire Legendary precursor items with a more “scavenger hunt” feel than they are acquired currently.

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

There you have it. A gear treadmill, with a finishing touch of delicious marketing.

for example:
-skins, skins, skins
-wvw
-pvp-maps
-better and new stories
-minigames
-a huge title-system
-riddles
-housing with trophies
-armor with trophies

Caedmon.6798:

Jeez…gamers are getting a bit nasty if your asking me.Where are the days where people were actually happy about anything and Stop complaining all the kitten time.Arent you guys getting tired of yourselfs ?

For the most part, I have been very happy with this game, hence why I’m encouraging a boycott rather than an exodus.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

I understand what you’re saying, however, Anet didn’t “need” to do anything quick. The game is truly doing fine on it’s current path. Attempting to lure other MMO players at the risk of alienating your current fanbase has proven to be a very poor idea over and over and over again.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Quitting + getting a refund is essentially boycotting.

OMG, stop it.

You’re not getting a refund after playing the game for hundreds of hours.

Good lord.

Einstein stated that the definition of insanity is: “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Many MMOs have tried implementing Infusion-esque mechanics, and many MMOs have failed at doing so.

Learn from their mistakes ArenaNet, before you make your own.

Galandil.9641:

Angel.1435:

I thought ANet had said they LISTENED to the community? I’m sure if we had a poll, the % of people who DON"T want ascended gear would far exceed the ones that do.

I tried to open a poll-thread on its own in this forum. Just to get a simple “yes/no to ascended gears” from the userbase.

A moderator decided to merge it here. If you check there’re quite some “yes/no” replies in this thread: they’re replies to that other poll thread. And of course it’s been killed by the zelousness of a moderator.

I can assure you, though, that the trend was clear: the NAYs were outnumbering heavily the AYEs.

There was a thread that linked a poll in another site, and I think over 50% of the respondants said they would quit if Ascended Gear were added lol. Probably BS, but at least shows that the majority is against it.

showatt.9413:

nachtnebel.9168:

showatt.9413:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Perfectly said.

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

Difficulty has nothing to do with gear progression. Things don’t get more difficult just because all numbers get higher.

Difficulty has a lot to do with gear progression. Things do get more difficult because numbers are higher.

If the monster stats are going up, and my stats are going up… then there is no difference.

The delta is the same, the difficulty has not changed one bit.

What DOES change is the difficulty of previous challenges. Current challenges will still be as difficult as before. Future challenges will be gated with a gear grind.

suppenkasper.5371:

I as a player who only plays this game for WvW feel backstabbed like never before in another game. If it comes out, that this new armor with better stats will be usable in WvW, i will quit the game and might even contact my lawyer to make an example. I am already collecting official quotes of employees about the merchandising of GW2 not being a gear grind game. I know this must sound ridiculous to most, but this is for me an obvious case of fraud to the customer. Lets see what my lawyer says.

Your lawyer will probably laugh his head off.
Just saying.

Dear ANet, do you want to do gear progression?

Fine, but please keep it away from WvW.

We already have to grind gold for siege and structure upgrades, don’t make us also grind equips every new content patch.

Tallenn.9218:

For the first time in an MMO, I have the very best gear available. I was lead to believe that I would never have to upgrade in order to keep up with that.

I was NOT one of the people complaining they had nothing to do. I had PLENTY of things to do each time I logged in, and still more stuff on my to do list. I didn’t ask for more to keep me busy, and now I feel like I’m going to be forced to do things I didn’t really want to, taking my time away from things I really did.

I get that there’s only a couple of pieces of new gear, which will grow to more over time. So what happens when all of the ascended gear has been released, and I’ve spent all that time getting it? Will they release yet another tier then?

I truly thought this game was different- a game that wouldn’t cave to the masses that can’t handle life outside the Skinner box. I guess I was wrong.

With that logic, and you having so much to do then why do you even care what gear you have and that it might not be “the best”. The way you play, you dont need the best if you’re satisfied with running around the world discovering things, doing DEs OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER in orr to the point your eyes bleed, and crafting which can be done with any gear.

What I’m trying to say is why do you care if more gear comes out if you don’t really care about your gear….

Creslin.1758:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

May I ask what you are basing your assertion that GW2 is essentially in a downward spiral on? Please do not say XFire.

Why not?

So when the stats were high, and GW2 ranked 2nd, with 100,000+ players recorded playing, it was fine?

But now that it sits at 15,000, we can’t use it?

Holy cow, you would think this gear has already been released and tested with all the QQ going on in this thread. Does anyone think that waiting to see what it is, THEN QQ’ng would be a good idea? I understand the desire to not want a gear grind. I am also 100% in this boat and have no desire to get on that carousel of fail. But… I am also willing to wait until this new gear is released before slamming a game I have enjoyed so much, so far.