Guild Wars 2

If this is the route they want to take, so be it. But they better make it as easily accessible as the current tier of exotics: droppable, craftable, buyable with karma, gold, badges etc. Restricting BiS gear to uninspired PvE content has alienated PvP players in every mmo to date. WoW, Warhammer, Aion, Rift all made this mistake and lost the “large-scale PvP” demographic. Anet promised something different…you sit on a throne of LIES!

Unavoidable damage/debuff <> mechanic
Unavoidable damage/debuff <> engaging combat and encounter
Unavoidable damage/debuff <> creativity
Unavoidable damage/debuff <> innovation
Unavoidable damage/debuff <> fun instance

Unavoidable damage/debuff = Lazy developer’s way out.

Aaron.4807:

I love how the mods are just throwing all the threads made to protest this kitten into this thread to mitigate the extreme negative view that this change in manifesto has garnered.

Keep up the good work, maybe no one will notice that everyone hates this.

Positive threads are being thrown hear too but it’s overwhelmed by negatives which makes it hard to recognize people who actually like the new content. It hurts both sides.

I bought this game because I thought I could WvW without having to do PvE grind.

Please don’t suddenly change this game into something else.

camoflaugz.5031:

So peoples issue is a gear treadmill? This is the best decision ever, finally have something to look forward to. I don’t get why people are playing an MMO if they dont like progression. Progression is proven and its what makes an MMO a success, sounds like what some of you are looking for is easy access to everything, that doesn’t work in the long run, thats a game that you end up putting on the shelf after a few months.

I don’t get why you’re playing GW2 when every piece of marketing, released information, and 7 years of GW1 said that it wouldn’t have this type of mechanic that you can’t seem to do without.

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

Accipiter Striatus.1862:

I bought this game because I thought I could WvW without having to do PvE grind.

Please don’t suddenly change this game into something else.

You do not need gear to do WvW.

fathamburger.8453:

Unfortunately I had to write what was probably the first piece of bad press that GW2 has ever gotten because of this. I did not enjoy it.

http://www.examiner.com/article/guild-wars-2-may-take-it-s-first-critical-mis-step-upcoming-lost-shores-exp

Thanks for sharing the link. It has been reposted on my guild forums, and sums up my feelings perfectly.

I’m not interested in playing another game with a gear treadmill, and neither are most of the veteran players I know that migrated to GW2 because the game was built without one.

There is a true pvp-centric sandbox squeal that is on the verge of release. Most of my guild came to GW2 from the original, and it will be difficult to keep the guild in this title now.

Such a bummer because I really love this game.

ok I have to post again on this tread.
Even after I read the clarification by Lindsay, all I can think is, no.
Sorry Anet but you went back on your word three months after launch.
What you should have done is increase dungeon rewards and boss drops, you should have level-scaled down more for lower content but increased the rewards to be level specific and added new DE’s to all maps like you said you would. Lastly you should have given us more cosmetic skins for both armour and weapons.
What you did, was cater to the lowest common denominator and you basically told everyone playing your game that people who researched it and supported it throughout it’s development don’t matter because WOW.
This makes me very sad indeed since I bought the game because of your manifesto- yes i was skeptical and I researched it and played in the betas and it proved to me that you meant what you said.
You are damaging your game beyond repair if you implement a gear grind and I really fear that this will be the end of GW2 and what could have been.

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

That is far from making Exotics inferior to the new armor tier… +2 in stats x6 armor pieces for a total of +12 is still a far cry from making Exotics no longer viable…

Dimeschemo.5493:

I totally agree. but don’t you find it weird this post is more entertaining then the game it self right now?

No, actually, let me surmise it for you properly. The fate of the game for what is obviously a large portion of the players of the game that visit and contribute on these forums is at stake for that population. If you go over this thread, which now has over FIVE THOUSAND replies, you will find an overwhelming majority are disappointed to extremely disappointed with this move by Arenanet. The very fate of this game is at stake for those players.

I, for one, will no longer support this game if Arenanet charges blindly ahead with the gear tread mill they stated would NOT be in this game. I can’t speak for others, they have already spoken. It’s all right here in this thread.

For all those who say “GW1 was all about cosmetics!” Well All rpg are about developing your character, its the philosophy in this kind of game. You suck and you become a hero.
Item progression is a type of improving your develop as hero without increasing your level. PvP ladder is another way to improve your “hero” compare to others.
if a rpg game doesn’t have any way to improve your character then “there is nothing to do” feeling the gamer gets and he leaves.

For me to be a perfect game this game needs a PvE only progression(resistances PvE). WvW (realm abilities) only progression and a sPvP ladder system

Aaron.4807:

I love how the mods are just throwing all the threads made to protest this kitten into this thread to mitigate the extreme negative view that this change in manifesto has garnered.

Keep up the good work, maybe no one will notice that everyone hates this.

Or it could be a way for them to aggregate numerous opinions and dialogues on the matter into one post?… <shrug>

Seriously though, 104+ pages in about a day or so since it’s creation…. Somebody better be looking at this or there’s gonna be all sorts of flak.

PeerlessArch.6547:

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

That is far from making Exotics inferior to the new armor tier… +2 in stats x6 armor pieces for a total of +12 is still a far cry from making Exotics no longer viable…

Incorrect. The built in componant adds an additional 3, for a total of 5. 5 more power, precision, etc . Compound that against 2 or 3 items, and its a decent difference. Not to mention in the future when additional items are added.

PeerlessArch.6547:

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

That is far from making Exotics inferior to the new armor tier… +2 in stats x6 armor pieces for a total of +12 is still a far cry from making Exotics no longer viable…

Please don’t spread lies. I’ve already posted the math on this, and it’s not “+2”, it is a lot more than +2 in fact:

Vena.8436:

As of right now, the one slot that is comparable is a ring slot item. Draw your own conclusions, I just want to put out numbers since people keep quoting bizare values like “+2” or “8%” without really saying where it comes from.

Ascended Ring:
68 Precision
68 Power
10% Magic Find

Opal Orichalcum Ring of the Explorer:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Opal_Orichalcum_Ring_of_the_Explorer
63 Precision
63 Power
7% Magic Find

On the surface we see a 3% Magic Find boost, and 5/5 boost on the minor stats of Power and Precision.
Depending on how you look at this stat increase, whether compared at the jewel level or at the actual item level, the stat increase per % magic find is actually quite large. Let’s look at the next ring with both Prec/Power/%.

Ruby Orichlacum Ring of the Berserker:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ruby_Orichalcum_Ring_of_the_Berserker
92 Power
63 Precision
6% Critical Damage

Coral Orichalcum Ring of the Rampager:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coral_Orichalcum_Ring_of_the_Rampager
92 Precision
63 Power
63 Condition Damage

That is to say, 1% of MF (as the magor trait) can be argued in equivalency to 29 power. Or, when compared to purely stat gear, 7% of Magic Find is the equivalent of 92 stats. That is 13.15 stat/% trade off. Or, if you just want to compare basic stats on jewels:

Exquisite Opal:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exquisite_Opal_Jewel
4% Magic Find
15 Power
15 Precision

Exquisite Ruby:
25 Power
15 Precision
3% Critical Damage

Exquisite Coral:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exquisite_Coral_Jewel
25 Precision
15 Power
15 Condition Damage

That is to say that, when we compare the % based stats, you have a rough estimate of a trade-off of around +10 stat/% but when comparing % to non-% items, you have a trade off of about +6 stat/% (this arises because Crit Damage scales even more sharply than Magic Find in how much of a stat you have to sacrifice to build up Crit Damage). The number differences become much larger on armor.

Of course, the problem all comes down to Magic Find having very bizarre scaling. Where it can range anywhere from +6 stat/% exchange in jewels to as large as +22 stat/% stats on armor. If you’re more interested in the numbers, I’d look here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rampager%27s#Amount_of_Each_Stat_Per_Armor_Piece_for_Level_80_Items
Unfortunately it lacks Magic Find and Critical Damage scaling.

And in the end it all begs the question: Why did they show us the most hard to comprehend gear stat distribution? Why couldn’t they should the simplest as in: Rampager’s or Cleric’s?

Its hard to extrapolate just how much all gear will add, but just a single ring adds a lot more than “+2”. If we take the lowest denominator at +6 stat/% we’re placed at +18 stat on the ring from the Magic Find equivalent buff and then +10 total from the minor stats. That’s an increase of +28 stats overall for the ring. If we compared a whole ring (gem and all) in the set, with the high of +13 stat/%, we reach an increase in stats of about +49 overall for just the ring.

+49 stats on a ring is an increase of 18% in stats, total. (This is from: 1 – 218/267.)
+28 stats on a ring (our low ball) is an increase in 11% in stats total.

Have fun, and if I made a mistake let me know.

And now for the reply to the famous paragraph

Quote: "… we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated … " – Linsey Murdock

Really – you want to orient this game around the 1% who can run obsessively dungeons that fast cruise from game to game and rarely come back anyway vs. your loyal player base? By the way that same group says the same thing about every MMO with dungeons. How about concentrating on adding original content the majority of your loyal player base will enjoy (and you can possibly monetize because eventually you are going to need that again) instead of destroying the majority of dungeons for them and putting them on a gear grind? Yes, you just obsoleted all your old dungeon content because it won’t give the highest gear – we’ve all seen how this happened in other MMO’s. Plus you kill your pipeline for new players who cannot possibly catch up eventually to the current gear level and fall further and further behind.

Please try again. If we wanted this we would and can return to Wow. Most of us are here because we don’t want or need a gear grind. We want to have fun. We are not that 1% and we never will be.

I am from WoW. The only MMO I knew was WoW before Eve Online. Gear grind was one of the reasons I left WoW. I was so thrilled when I came here I thought “omg the GW designers are so superior they totally understand!”

I don’t think anyone should assume that because someone comes from WoW they want or like gear grind and are part of the “divide”. It’s seems like it’s at least 10 to 1 people not wanting a gear grind here, it’s not split like the election, it’s a landslide.

I’m just amazed at how few real let’s grind for gear progression players there are, maybe they hated all those wonderful old dungeons being empty too, and new players being left too far behind the grind eventually and they could never really bring new friends in, and all the fights fights fights over gear and all the elitist comments in the forum from the tiny vocal players who had ridiculous gear and then ruined world PvP with it too.

ArenaNet’s managers need to understand they have better designers than post vanilla WoW and copying WoW is not going to make GW2 better, it will just make players angry. Have some faith in your designers.

If we need a “progression” for elites how about time to for a group to finish dungeun first race and reward for those guild, anything but gear please. You are designers ArenaNet have some pride please and design your way out instead of copying a horrible mechanic from WoW that eventually lost it subscriptions.

People eventually couldn’t even comment on the forums without gear check to decide whether it was ok if they could have an opinion.

Please try again and really do your own design this time. You don’t need to copy inferior failed design mechanics to be on your own tread mill cycle of pleasing a fickle few.

Your team can probably come up with something better (not perfect) in 5minutes if you let them.

The ‘MMO Manifesto’ is looking more like an ’MMO Rough Guideline".

Loosifah.4739:

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

Uh…yes….this change in design philosophy means EXACTLY that. They’re unhappy with the revenue being brought in by their current player base and are attempting to change the game into a more commonly recognized model that was “perfected” and take to epic proportions by Blizzard.

This is a serious risk on Anet’s part as people who enjoy vertical gear progression and are already established in a game are not going to be drawn away to play this one. In doing so, Anet also risks alienating it’s existing player base in the hopes of attracting the above. It is a risky gamble that has yet to work for any MMO to-date.

I am all for gear progression to a degree(However I will not ride another endless treadmill). A slight boost in power and some new skins would be nice. The 1 part of this that bothers me is the Agony/Infusion, Throwing a blatant gear check on content and locking all future content based on this is not only a terribly idea but it goes against the core of this game. This change will turn this game into so many others and ultimately this is one of those changes that cannot be undone once it goes through. Please reconsider blatant gear checks that favor gear > skill and force us back on to that horrible kittening treadmill that we have all waited too long to escape.

Put a ban on pve gear in wvw and its solved like for real if its not fair killing each other then what we have here is a case of new orbs and one guild/team/party can out op the others even if they are out numbered they gota scale gear in this game and it would be another solution..like you guys should really go back and play real gear grind games cause the way it is now is all fixable try playing Champions return to norath baldars gate games that arent fixable now those are gear grinds. As for anet saying they think legendarys are to easy to obtain they should get out there acount and lvl fairly with no gem cards and then come back and tell us that cause as i see it people are geting help from guildys that arent bots and exploiters just to get enough gold to get the legendarys that exsit our there legit its do that or grind grind grind plinx to death. why even say something like that a net?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Vorch.2985:

Vena.8436:

Vorch.2985:

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

You sir, are an idiot.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteorlogicus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storm

Way to use data from before the release of the kitten game.

Yup, i made a mistake…therefore I’m an idiot. My bad.

and the community shows it’s true colors…gg peeps. I’ll let you guys enjoy the hyperbole chamber.

Yeah, sorry Vorch, apparently that’s what die-hard philosophy people will say to you when you make a mistake :\

Admittedly, I was being an kitten and have apologized in a PM. I, like many here, have gotten very tense over this… and its not even worth it really.

Morrigan.2809:

ok I have to post again on this tread.
Even after I read the clarification by Lindsay, all I can think is wow.

What clarifications? Link?

Feycat.4370:

camoflaugz.5031:

So peoples issue is a gear treadmill? This is the best decision ever, finally have something to look forward to. I don’t get why people are playing an MMO if they dont like progression. Progression is proven and its what makes an MMO a success, sounds like what some of you are looking for is easy access to everything, that doesn’t work in the long run, thats a game that you end up putting on the shelf after a few months.

Progression doesn’t have to be vertical.

It doesn’t do Anet any good to have people grinding the game for month after month. There’s no sub fee.

who said it was going to be month to month? maybe its not about the sub fee maybe its about keeping the game alive and and to keep people busy. If you release new content with no treadmill people will burn through that in a couple days or a week or two. And then youll get people saying theres nothing more to do over and over again. The way I see it, Anet is smarting up. Sometimes you have to go with whats proven, just like in life, If you wanna be rich then you follow what the rich do, if you wanna be in the middle then follow what they do.

The main thing I worry about (aside from being lost in this giant conglomerated thread) is loss of customization. The example shown on the article gives no room to change the “jewel” in Yakkington’s ring. I know there’s still a lot left unknown about ascended gear, but I just hope that people from ANet have some way to allow stat customization for them like you can achieve with crafted exotics and swapping out upgrade slots.

I also worry for people who possibly got legendary weapons and then used a transmutation stone on them to get their look onto an exotic with stats that fit their build. When legendaries are “updated” to ascended stats, what will happen to those?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Accipiter Striatus.1862:

I bought this game because I thought I could WvW without having to do PvE grind.

Please don’t suddenly change this game into something else.

You do not need gear to do WvW.

lol. funny.

Better gear gives you an edge. That’s why they made……better gear.

PeerlessArch.6547:

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

That is far from making Exotics inferior to the new armor tier… +2 in stats x6 armor pieces for a total of +12 is still a far cry from making Exotics no longer viable…

Any increase at all over my exotics is a step toward a gear treadmill which Anet said would not happen.

Quote from Mike O’Brien

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

To put some humor into this thread:

“Aye Captain, what to do if the worst happens?”
Jack Sparrow: “… Stick to the code…”

Later in the movie…

Elizabeth: "We have to go back for them!!
“Theres the code to consider…”
Elizabeth: “They are more like guidelines anyways….”

PeerlessArch.6547:

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

That is far from making Exotics inferior to the new armor tier… +2 in stats x6 armor pieces for a total of +12 is still a far cry from making Exotics no longer viable…

Actually, look closer

It’s actually +5 in two stats for one accessory for an un-upgraded ascended versus a fully upgraded exotic. It’s definitely a rarity stat upgrade on par with all previous rarity stat upgrades, if not more.

Loosifah.4739:

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

It absolutely is destroying the manifesto on which the game was designed and on which we purchased and played it.

No vertical progression beyond end game exotics. Period. Cosmetic progression only.

All arguments about the degree of which are irrelevant. Any vertical progression is counter to their design and unacceptable to us.

Thank you for quoting the exact quote I copied/pasted and sent to friends. Really everyone is running around with legendaries???

and I’m over here like….

“HEY guys! I have one level 80, I’m at 95% map completion, 200 crafting, 15 gold in my pocket, & still haven’t completed a dungeon set…woot woot!!

I’m extremely worried about this dramatic change in the game. If I wanted to play WoW I would be playing MoP (have the expansion but have played very little of it). That said, I’m going to give these GW2 changes a try because Anet is being somewhat vague about a lot of this (i.e., I’m not jumping on the it is the end of Tyria bandwagon that is assuming the worst possible scenario). This whole thing feels very much like it isn’t 100% Anet’s idea and they may be able to get rid of the more ridiculous parts of it.

I have to say, if this becomes another heavily gated MMO that requires previous content to be completed before you can do the next tier I’m out. Even if this is not the case (and I bet they’re not going to have dungeon tiers) there is still the problem of this shifting from skill gating to gear gating. People were being elitist before now and it will only get worse if they’re encouraged with gear gating (which gives people the impression they should aggressively min/max their parties). I’m not sure how they can reverse this trend.

Your 1% vs “loyal base” is all opinion and have no facts to prove how many want this or that. Ill tell you this though, its higher then 1%

funforums.4850:

Nephaerius.9103:

funforums.4850:

But wait a second.
I don’t like this change, but you won’t be using that gear in sPvP. You can use it in PvE and WvWvW.

Guys, my gf survived to an entire WvW session (lasted 1 evening) with a lvl2 warrior and equip, without dying… will some ascended armors/weapons make difference?
It’s a 300vs300 game mode.

What did she do that was worth anything? Standing around not dying at lvl 2 doesn’t mean anything. Are you seriously going to argue that your lvl 2 girlfriend brings more to the table in a fight than a lvl 80 currently decked out in Exotics. Factually you’re just wrong. If you’re fine with competing on uneven footing good for you. I’m not. I don’t play WoW because the skill ceiling is abysmally low and outside of that it’s all my numbers are bigger than yours.

And to everyone else saying “It’s 300 v 300 not 1v1” What game are you playing? I engage in small skirmishes of less than 5 per side in WvWvW all the time and certainly a ton of 1v1’s and 1v2’s. If you would actually roam and work for your team rather than just running around in a mindless zerg you might actually experience what us “complainers” are talking about.

Rofl, haters gonna hate.
It depends on how you play. You are seeking for balance in a 300v300 game mode in which both people with lvl2 equip and people with lvl80 equip can play. You’re actually searching for balance in a game mode that is NOT balanced at all.
If you like going roaming in team sized of 2 people, good for you, but it’s not the way WvW is meant to be played, i think. Btw, she has a lvl80 char, but tried to WvW with a lvl2 warrior.

Anyway, I don’t know if you did actually read the message, but I don’t like this change. I wanted the game to be perfectly balanced as it was until now.
But probably your attention got struck by a whining attack..

LoL way to take my post way to personally bro.

I get that we agree against the change. However, you suggest it has no impact on WvWvW fights. That’s factually incorrect. Yes zergs decrease the impact of the change Yes your lvl 2 gf (was never saying she didn’t have an 80 lol) can survive in WvWvW. The more effective teams and groups of players will all be decked out in Ascended gear. If you’re not then you’re factually at a disadvantage.

Even taking your zerg into the equation let’s go with 300 v 300. If 200 people on one team have full Ascended and only 100 on the other who do you think will win? Even if the chances are perfectly even I should not leave a competitive fight feeling like gear or numbers lost me the battle. There’s already enough randomness to fights with things like Crits for example. Also while yes WvWvW allows you to hop in as soon as you start playing the longer the game has been out the more and more weighted it has been towards lvl 80 players (in my own experience). This will only increase over time as the player base becomes exponentially top heavy as with any MMO.

IMO if you’re running around with the Zerg you’re not playing WvWvW how it was meant to be played. I guess we’ll just have to disagree. Especially considering there’s no “correct” way to play it. But thank you for your feedback.

If the only thing you get from new sets and new gear in new content updates is a new look, what the hell is the point in doing the new content other than “Oh wow I have all these pretty USELESS sets”?

Solutions:

1: Issue an apology for miss selling a core principal over the 4 years leading up to the game release. Admit that they unintentionally gave us an ideal that they was not willing to standby. Accept requests for refunds.
Release a new manifesto that reflects their new design strategy and move on with the game.

2: Admit the decision was a hasty knee jerk solution to please what was perceived to be the majority of the player base. Make new items exotic level stats. Make the new condition feature work on consumables that drop frequently in PvE, Crafting, Karma & via WvW or scrap it. Keep the fundamental value of adding new content with visually spectacular gear for us to grind for. Focus on making the game fun as per the manifesto.

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

I find your failure at basic math more hilarious.

It’s actually 50 points, 5 in the secondary stats and ~40 in the main stat.

It is very interesting these days how people are in complete denial until things walk up and slap them in the face. I would say an overwhelmingly large portion of the gaming populace in this game is absolutely against this mechanic being added. The advertisement for the game before it was release touted the exact opposite of this strategy. Proclaiming it a “just a small difference, deal with it,” isn’t going to change the fact of how people feel about them breaking their word. Just like the last election, if you sit there blindly thinking you are right, and then reality smacks you down, don’t be too upset if you can’t find anyone to go do your treadmill with you. Most of us will have moved on.

Loosifah.4739:

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

It´s a start of vertical progression, we don´t want vertical progression…at all.

And neither did they when they were trying to sell their game pre-launch. funny thing is that we actualy believed them.

Ibsen.4057:

Your 1% vs “loyal base” is all opinion and have no facts to prove how many want this or that. Ill tell you this though, its higher then 1%

This. Just because you live on an island where everyone agrees with you doesn’t mean that everyone else in the world that you did not know existed doesn’t count. Stop making stupid statistical claims if you my friend, do not have any access to the actual database.

Gabi.5264:

HURRAY, good job Anet, reward players for playing.

If people want to play without getting rewards please feel free to do so, I for one am very happy to see i’m not going to play for nothing.

Brilliant!

The idea of playing a game is that playing it is rewarding. That is GW2 as advertised.

gamefreak.5673:

PeerlessArch.6547:

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are crying over this new tier of items when it adds +2 to stats over Exotics. Yes people that is +2 in stats!

That is far from making Exotics inferior to the new armor tier… +2 in stats x6 armor pieces for a total of +12 is still a far cry from making Exotics no longer viable…

Any increase at all over my exotics is a step toward a gear treadmill which Anet said would not happen.

Quote from Mike O’Brien

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Read it again and you will get it. Adding new tier of gear doesn’t mean it must be grindy. Actually am pretty sure it will be very easy to obtain this new stuff. Just like any other tier of items.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

Solutions:

1: Issue an apology for miss selling a core principal over the 4 years leading up to the game release. Admit that they unintentionally gave us an ideal that they was not willing to standby. Accept requests for refunds.
Release a new manifesto that reflects their new design strategy and move on with the game.

2: Admit the decision was a hasty knee jerk solution to please what was perceived to be the majority of the player base. Make new items exotic level stats. Make the new condition feature work on consumables that drop frequently in PvE, Crafting, Karma & via WvW or scrap it. Keep the fundamental value of adding new content with visually spectacular gear for us to grind for. Focus on making the game fun as per the manifesto.

This is very likely a top-down decision, not a bottom up one. Arena Net has no choice but to grin and bear it because its the boss’s boss who made this call.

KrakenAZ.9367:

The ‘MMO Manifesto’ is looking more like an ’MMO Rough Guideline".

Let’s be clear, a Manifesto is merely a declaration of intentions, motives and perspectives by the author…. not a binding contract that locks them into a set of conditions.

While I don’t think this is necessarily the best solution for Anet, let’s recognize that they have total freedom in terms of deciding how they wish to move the game forward…. Total freedom doesn’t mean that all possible decisions they can make are good ones, there are still consequences and this decision might not shake out they way they want it to.

ArenaNet, my wallet is now closed to you. It is not because of the patch or the gear, but because of your lack of communication with your community over the past day and a half.

I have read hundreds of the posts in this thread and have seen the questions asked. I have also read the Dev tracker and seen the pathetic and redundant stream of corporate speak coming from your community management staff: “We appreciate your input.” and “This post will now be closed.”

You have become like Blizzard.

This is my first experience with your company, and I had much higher hopes than this from you based upon the information you have given out over the past year or more regarding this game. I purchased the game, and I have enjoyed aspects of it. I have despised aspects of it as well. I felt like it was oversold and under delivered. Promises were made and not kept. Polish was lacking in many regards and still is. I will not ask for a refund, but you have lost my trust completely.

When the time comes that you require more money of your players to continue keeping the servers live, count me out.

Loosifah.4739:

If the only thing you get from new sets and new gear in new content updates is a new look, what the hell is the point in doing the new content other than “Oh wow I have all these pretty USELESS sets”?

Because we enjoy doing the content for the sake of fun!

You don’t need to chase the carrot to enjoy yourself. Doing fun things is fun.

Why should there be more to it than that? This is what Anet has said to believe, and it’s what many of us do as well.

piitb.7635:

Xyne.9104:

The introduction of these asc gears is a signal that more tiers/more powerful gears will come.

So, no.

Legendary armor was already around the corner.

If they released legendary armor instead of ascended armor, would you complain about a quality that already existed?

Quality != tiers.
Legendary is equal to exotic, it just has a more shiny look to it.
Ascended is being forced upon the player to be able to compete in a dedicated environment, thus locking this content to the grind of a specific type of gear. That’s even worse than WoW – at least you’ll grind gear that has a universal purpose there.

Loosifah.4739:

If the only thing you get from new sets and new gear in new content updates is a new look, what the hell is the point in doing the new content other than “Oh wow I have all these pretty USELESS sets”?

You should want to do the content because the content should be fun… isn’t that the reason we play games?

@PeerlessArch.6547

A couple of reasons.

1. Game was hyped as a “non” treadmill game
2. It starts with only 2, but they mentioned “more to come, weapons, etc”
3. 1 + 2 = 3. Math is simple, see what I did there? Once it starts, it doesn’t end and that is the current state of other games today. What starts as a simple item budget increase and/or level never ends. Thus a lvl 60 74 dps weapon grows to a level 504 weapon yielding 5,000 dps.

There was really nothing wrong with the overall game as it was originally billed I think is what some people are debating. Subjective I know, but it is what it is. Environmentally the game offered so much as it is, why do this now? Why couldn’t the raid portion just be fine tuned or altered another way? Why does it have to tie to a shiny object or stat increase?

Couldn’t you just move the clock tower jump puzzle developer to the dungeons? That seemed to generate a lot of chatter surrounding difficulty and the 5% folks…

I mean there are many ways to skin this cat if you really wanted to. Personally, I liked the idea of a non gear progression based MMO game that actually makes people get out and look at the environment. Heck, I just found the hidden jump puzzle the other day working on my map complete task. Swim by, look around, looks like a path, find a gate, enter, see some rocks and push plates, place rocks on button/plate, gate opens, enter, etc.

That, to me, is pricesless. But alas I’m not the only one playing this game

“camoflaugz.5031

So peoples issue is a gear treadmill? This is the best decision ever, finally have something to look forward to. I don’t get why people are playing an MMO if they dont like progression. Progression is proven and its what makes an MMO a success, sounds like what some of you are looking for is easy access to everything, that doesn’t work in the long run, thats a game that you end up putting on the shelf after a few months."

It’s so Proven, That Aion went F2P and how many servers they have left
Warhammer has how many servers
SW;ToR has how many servers?

Yup proof is in the pudding

How about you just make Ascended items the same statistically as an upgraded Exotic? Only, with an Infuse slot. Making them basically the same as greens from GW1, but with Infuse for the dungeon mechanics. Problem solved, no harm done.