Guild Wars 2

tkalamba.2541:

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

But it does when it’s a major change and this qualifies as a major change. It will cause a change in the player’s goals. It will cause a change in player’s attitudes. It was cause a change in player’s mentality.

So yes, they are setting a precedence most especially with the Legendaries being bumped up. Will they continue to do so when level cap is raised? Probably because they’ve sent the precedence to do so.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

I don’t know what pipe dream you’re coming from but that model was working perfectly in GW1.
Why? Because when I want to be on par with other people, I want my skill to matter, not my gear. It’s called fair play.
To be honest, it’s people like you – who expect grind to give them advantage – are the ones wanting advantage for free in my eyes.

I don’t expect to be on part with achievement points or gold or whatever, I expect to be on par in the stats. That’s what GW1 offered and that’s what GW2 was supposed to offer. There are plenty of the game areas where you can farm, grind, shine and impress the more you play – kitten points, gold, shiny armour… Just not stats.

tkalamba.2541:

Ruby Red.4019:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

It’s changing their stated game philosophy – play it your way – not any more – no gear grind – not any more – multiple paths to a goal – not any more – no exclusion from content based on gear – not any more. And that’s what ppl have an issue with this is not the game I bought if I wanted this tired old format I’d be back in WoW or Rift.

You can still play how you want…. You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier, no upgrades means your shoehorned into what stats they give you… you can still achieve your goals anyway you want…. and your still not excluded from content…. you can do all 9 Fractals without needing Ascended gear. I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.

Until LFG must have full Ascended.

Xpiher.5209:

Cutterslaine.2689:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of Arena Net
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Does that mean I can have my money back if I wanted, if they go down this progression route?

Sadly no.

Actually – yes.
If you purchased directly from Arena Net.

tkalamba.2541:

Ruby Red.4019:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

It’s changing their stated game philosophy – play it your way – not any more – no gear grind – not any more – multiple paths to a goal – not any more – no exclusion from content based on gear – not any more. And that’s what ppl have an issue with this is not the game I bought if I wanted this tired old format I’d be back in WoW or Rift.

You can still play how you want…. You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier, no upgrades means your shoehorned into what stats they give you… you can still achieve your goals anyway you want…. and your still not excluded from content…. you can do all 9 Fractals without needing Ascended gear. I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.

Like I said, we DON’T KNOW THAT. Your statement only holds true if future content doesn’t require us to have Ascended gear to even complete it. Will the next update require me to have these two rings to even make it past the first tier? What happens after they add the entire set of ascended gear? Will there be BLESSED GEAR after that?

170 pages and growing by the hour …

let me fix it for you : remove the stat increase on the gear, keep the infusion slot, keep the rest of the patch content, keep almost everyone happy and stay true to your design and manisfesto.

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

Is it even possible for you to understand that many of us bought the game with the understanding that we would be able to quit for 3 months and come back at the same level as everyone else? That is how it was advertised and that’s why we actually decided to get this MMO. We’re tired of the MMO design that you seem to crave and this one promised us something that is now going away.

tkalamba.2541:

You can still play how you want…. You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier, no upgrades means your shoehorned into what stats they give you… you can still achieve your goals anyway you want…. and your still not excluded from content…. you can do all 9 Fractals without needing Ascended gear. I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.

The only example given was plain better in ALL situations than the exotic ring. We don’t know how the ascended armors will work for runes yet. As far as we know, they might very well have both a rune and an infusion slot. Or you’ll merge the rune and the infusion together in the mystic forge first. Or, or …

If you try to tell me you cannot make a set of berserk jewelry with knight jewels, I’ll retort that you can get the same effect for cheaper by using 2 rings and one amulet of berserk type + two earrings of knight type.

Urxx.6840:

Yet they had managed to keep GW1 alive 7 years, releasing 3 campaigns and 1 expansions, without ever raising level cap. Nor gear power. 7 years after launch, there still wasn’t a single amor set that was more powerful than any max level armor present at launch.

Yep, I played Ultima Online for over 7 years and the skill-cap stayed the same the whole time and so did the item selection until near the end. You don’t need artificial ‘character progression’ if the game is skillful and challenging enough to make you feel that you’re progressing as a player.

To take a more extreme example, look at games outside of the MMO genre. I played Counterstrike: Source for hundreds of hours and that has no character progression. None. Whatsoever. Character progression isn’t an entirely evil thing but it’s certainly not something that is essential for longevity if the actual game-play is challenging enough.

Of course, a large part of what made CS:S and UO fun is the infinite possibilities presented by the Player vs Player aspect, where an MMO has to cater to lots of people who just want to fight monsters, which I suppose is a lot harder, though by no means impossible, to keep interesting.

Cutterslaine.2689:

tkalamba.2541:

Ruby Red.4019:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

It’s changing their stated game philosophy – play it your way – not any more – no gear grind – not any more – multiple paths to a goal – not any more – no exclusion from content based on gear – not any more. And that’s what ppl have an issue with this is not the game I bought if I wanted this tired old format I’d be back in WoW or Rift.

You can still play how you want…. You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier, no upgrades means your shoehorned into what stats they give you… you can still achieve your goals anyway you want…. and your still not excluded from content…. you can do all 9 Fractals without needing Ascended gear. I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.

Until LFG must have full Ascended.

You must have missed the fact that the dungeon determines difficulty based on the highest common level achieved in a group. 4 out of 5 players can be at level 10, ones at level 2… dungeon will be level 2… People will stop progressing in an unlimited dungeon after a while due to high difficulty and will want to continue running lower level runs. They will farm and grind loot and gear as people already do in dungeons, and they will take people who haven’t run the dungeon.

It will very likely be closer to LFG, low difficulty or new dungeon runs.

In a dungeon that never ends, there will be a wall at which most people will not progress further. If they like the content, they will want to partake in easier runs.

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

People are saying it is a precedent because that is what it is.

I am not even sure if what you have written counts as an argument against anything.

The only thing I can see your post targeting is maybe the dictionary.

I stand by my statement and am not in favor of this update at all.

They can either scrap it and or make WvW use pvp gear. If not then I will play another game… it is pretty simple.

My point is, you can claim everything sets some sort of precedent, doesn’t mean it does.

Fact of the matter is you have no clue what they plan on doing, and in the end it’s their product, and they have all the back end metrics to make decisions on. We don’t. Sure we have our opinions, and everyones differs, but going around saying they are setting a precedent is pretty pointless.

Play the content, if you don’t like it, then make your decision to leave. Don’t just assume off the bat without actually experiencing it that it doesn’t work and that they have altered everything.

Look, I am not mad, I am just stating how things are from my point of view.

If you read how I had planned on playing, you will see that putting in just one more tier pretty much destroys what I wanted to do.

Also, Like I said, if I actually believed 100% that this would be the last tier and farmed all of those sets for all of my characters to do WvW… I have to remember that just days ago I thought exotic would be 100% the highest tier in the game forever.

What is funny is that putting the new tier in over time is even worse, cause they I have to decide if I wanna just make rare armor for the rest of my characters and wait for the new tier or not.

I just can not bring myself to play after this update goes live, unless WvW starts to use pvp gear. Hopefully you can see it from my point of view. Nothing personal against Anet, I will just move on to another game.

tkalamba.2541:

You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier… I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.

“Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.”

“As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

So if you want to be on par with the others and get the rewards that they gets, you better start thinking of getting your ascended gears.

cherrie.8907:

Xpiher.5209:

Cutterslaine.2689:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of Arena Net
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Does that mean I can have my money back if I wanted, if they go down this progression route?

Sadly no.

Actually – yes.
If you purchased directly from Arena Net.

I did … Excellent. I’m even more interested now to see how this unfolds.

Darkmoon Mist Raven.5913:

170 pages and growing by the hour …

let me fix it for you : remove the stat increase on the gear, keep the infusion slot, keep the rest of the patch content, keep almost everyone happy and stay true to your design and manisfesto.

Very well put. Props 2 u.

cherrie.8907:

Jezath.7395:

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

I don’t know what pipe dream you’re coming from but that model was working perfectly in GW1.
Why? Because when I want to be on par with other people, I want my skill to matter, not my gear. It’s called fair play.
To be honest, it’s people like you – who expect grind to give them advantage – are the ones wanting advantage for free in my eyes.

I don’t expect to be on part with achievement points or gold or whatever, I expect to be on par in the stats. That’s what GW1 offered and that’s what GW2 was supposed to offer. There are plenty of the game areas where you can farm, grind, shine and impress the more you play – kitten points, gold, shiny armour… Just not stats.

I’m not even mad at people like Jezath. They like a certain kind of gameplay and it seems they are getting it now. Not their fault if ANet is inconsistent with their stated and advertised design phylosophy.

Who I’m mad at is ANet. They acted all rightous while spreading hype and catering to those who hated threadmills, and now they realize they did a design mistake and players got exotics too quickly and what do they do? They wink to threadmill lovers.

Way to lose all your credibility.

tkalamba.2541:

Jezath.7395:

Sdric.8526:

8300+Replies.
90% against a treadmill.
“The community wants a treadmill”

I’m sorry but I really think this is a mistake.
This is no small and ignorable issue people will learn to accept in time.
This is a 180° spin which brakes everything the name Guild Wars ever stood for.

If we can’t stop it, I hope they do realize it in a few month and disable this ascended grind madness again.

You need to look carefully at the thread, 95% are not against it… Alot of it is a discussion about this from the same people. the ones thatare against it as you ay are not all against the actual content either, they are discussing the fact that they may have been lied too..

So please read the thread before making false statements like that. its just scaremongering.

Well said, alot of these posts are repeat posters. I’ve posted alot on here, and so have many others. You cannot use post count as a metric.

Edited for bad spelling in the morning

Post count and % for or against are two different things. Personally, I’ve not gone through every post and counted how many distinct uses are for or against which will be required to accurately judge the sample represented in this forum, but it does seem very clear that more who post here are against ascended gear rather than for it. I’m not sure it reached 90% but it seems much more than 50%, especially if you count each poster’s opinion only once and not each time they post again. Someone would have to count and score each post of we want to give an exact %, but I think the sentiment that most posting here are against the incread in stats for ascended armour is easily true. It is impossible to assess the playerbase as a whole of course, outside of Anet conducting an in-game poll perhaps (which they were doing for things during beta, and could do once more if they want a clearer picture :P ).

The point remains though, for years the people looking forward to this game have been led to expect one thing (new adventures as content rather than stat increases/gear progression), and with this change are being given something else, explaining the disappointment (or more intense reactions) of many of us.

Okay guys, listen.

Think this is getting blown out of porportion to what it actually is.

First, they announced they are releasing new gear based on a dungeon. Natural reaction was omg GEAR TREADMILL.

However the gear isn’t needed to do the content which is the biggest fear: I have to gear up to do new content!! I dont have the time etc etc. This is in fact false you dont need the gear for the new content.

Once you enter the portal you’ll be taken to the Mistlock Observatory, a safe haven created by Dessa within the Mists. From there you’ll start your first round of fractals. You’ll be sent to three randomly chosen destinations and once you’ve vanquished all three of these fractals, you’ll be brought back to the Mistlock Observatory hub to rest and regroup. On top of that, every other round before you return to the hub you’ll be faced with a bonus “boss fractal.” Here, you will face an encounter akin to our big world bosses!

So what this says is basically the dungeon is based on a sort of round system that randomly selects where your going…. if you beat it, then the next time you go in with your group it will then be harder…. beat it again and reenter and it gets harder again.

Now lets go look at what they said about the gear and agony.

To make Fractals of the Mist even more challenging, every time you re-visit the hub, the dungeon scales up in difficulty. That’s right, a scaling dungeon! The dungeon will remember your progress, and will poll the party’s levels when you enter, scaling the dungeon to the highest common attained level. It’s a true challenge, but as you hit higher and higher scales, the dungeon will get more and more rewarding. You’ll have to have some serious skills and solid tactics to make it through these Fractals. After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival.

So you infact DONT need the gear to do the new content its not required. They have created content that can be done casually…. and it can be done by more hardcore progressive players that want to do that sort of thing… by repeating the content with their friends making it harder and harder up to the point where they need to obtain the new ascend gear to keep progressing (theres the progression bit they were talking about) your group through difficulties.

So I think everyone is doing the omg freak out bit a bit premature and not actually objectively looking at what is written.

The current exotic BIS model works really well because it encourages changing and experimenting with builds. Just like I did in SWG with their stat system. You couldn’t get higher than +35 power bits without exploiting.

cherrie.8907:

Jezath.7395:

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

I don’t know what pipe dream you’re coming from but that model was working perfectly in GW1.
Why? Because when I want to be on par with other people, I want my skill to matter, not my gear. It’s called fair play.
To be honest, it’s people like you – who expect grind to give them advantage – are the ones wanting advantage for free in my eyes.

I don’t expect to be on part with achievement points or gold or whatever, I expect to be on par in the stats. That’s what GW1 offered and that’s what GW2 was supposed to offer. There are plenty of the game areas where you can farm, grind, shine and impress the more you play – kitten points, gold, shiny armour… Just not stats.

Well said +1

The best idea I have heard was in another thread, where someone said you should be able to put your existing exotic in the forge with some new ingredients and have it upgraded to an ascendant item. Otherwise exotics will be a complete waste- just equip rares/masterwork and skip the exotic tier completely.

PS- keep the stats between exotic and ascendant the same please.

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

Freohr.7905:

LFM Fractals, Ascended Only

I can expect to see this a lot in Lion’s Arch, if this patch goes through as-is.

tkalamba.2541:

Jezath.7395:

Sdric.8526:

8300+Replies.
90% against a treadmill.
“The community wants a treadmill”

I’m sorry but I really think this is a mistake.
This is no small and ignorable issue people will learn to accept in time.
This is a 180° spin which brakes everything the name Guild Wars ever stood for.

If we can’t stop it, I hope they do realize it in a few month and disable this ascended grind madness again.

You need to look carefully at the thread, 95% are not against it… Alot of it is a discussion about this from the same people. the ones thatare against it as you ay are not all against the actual content either, they are discussing the fact that they may have been lied too..

So please read the thread before making false statements like that. its just scaremongering.

Well said, alot of these posts are repeat posters. I’ve posted alot on here, and so have many others. You cannot use post count as a metric.

Edited for bad spelling in the morning

Repeat or not, there is a strong negative correlation among them. And many of them ARE NOT repeat posters, many of them are first (and last) time posters. And all of those are negative as well. And the numbers, no matter how you try to spin it (where the 95% NOT against it came from is beyond me), the response by and large from their player base is overwhelmingly negative

Namu.5712:

Okay guys, listen.

Think this is getting blown out of porportion to what it actually is.

First, they announced they are releasing new gear based on a dungeon. Natural reaction was omg GEAR TREADMILL.

However the gear isn’t needed to do the content which is the biggest fear: I have to gear up to do new content!! I dont have the time etc etc. This is in fact false you dont need the gear for the new content….

I am sorry but you do:

“Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.”

“. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

And if you want “the other rewards”, you will NEED ascended.

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

BBilbo.9641:

Freohr.7905:

LFM Fractals, Ascended Only

I can expect to see this a lot in Lion’s Arch, if this patch goes through as-is.

If that’s the case it won’t be long before Anet will be in Lions Arch LFP

Zplus.4217:

Namu.5712:

Okay guys, listen.

Think this is getting blown out of porportion to what it actually is.

First, they announced they are releasing new gear based on a dungeon. Natural reaction was omg GEAR TREADMILL.

However the gear isn’t needed to do the content which is the biggest fear: I have to gear up to do new content!! I dont have the time etc etc. This is in fact false you dont need the gear for the new content….

I am sorry but you do:

“Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.”

“. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

And if you want “the other rewards”, you will NEED ascended.

So your freaking out over unknown rewards then? That is very…. silly.

So I spend enough time to read all blogposts, fansidepreviews (that could play already) etc.

Man this whole stuff sounds so awesome I would be byond hyped if there weren’t these new ascended items and infusion. It adds nothing challenging to the game. Not by any means. The more I read about the more I think the adding of new power items and power slots are completly useless and needless. I don’t understand why they are doing that. I think I will play the weekend because of story and such but the new gear is setting my motivation down. For me this update makes exact the oposite of what anet should doing, which is bring players to play longer. For me it only turns me into a player, that would jump on free content updates (as I won’t buy any addons with item treadmill) and leave after I’m done with it instead of being the player that plays every day as I used to be).

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

Namu.5712:

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Why do you assume that somone who is willing to try very difficult content is all happy to trash his/her exotics and start acquiring new gear to do so? Especially after he’s been led to believe this wouldn’t have been the case?

Even though this patch is particularly causal-unfriendly doesn’t mean it doesn’t damages other players as well. I’m one for instance.

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

Exactly!? Its only a treadmill if future updates past this require the previous content update to even do the content. If new content has new armor/buffs but doesn’t require more than exotics to start then THERE ISN’T AN ISSUE.

BBilbo.9641:

Freohr.7905:

LFM Fractals, Ascended Only

I can expect to see this a lot in Lion’s Arch, if this patch goes through as-is.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

The more likely thing you will see in Lion’s Arch is LFG must be less than level 3 difficulty.

People will likely opt for the easiest experience for fastest token gain for the rewards. Look at the above link for indepth look at how the dungeon works vs. rampant speculation.

Miragee.3604:

So I spend enough time to read all blogposts, fansidepreviews (that could play already) etc.

Man this whole stuff sounds so awesome I would be byond hyped if there weren’t these new ascended items and infusion. It adds nothing challenging to the game. Not by any means. The more I read about the more I think the adding of new power items and power slots are completly useless and needless. I don’t understand why they are doing that. I think I will play the weekend because of story and such but the new gear is setting my motivation down. For me this update makes exact the oposite of what anet should doing, which is bring players to play longer. For me it only turns me into a player, that would jump on free content updates (as I won’t buy any addons with item treadmill) and leave after I’m done with it instead of being the player that plays every day as I used to be).

You aren’t required to get the new gear. The new content is progressive, meaning you can go in and do it with your exotics just fine. But if you keep grinding the dungeon which means basically doing it over again it gets more difficult. Until the gear is needed to overcome it.

Again its not required….. which makes it not a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill means that you HAVE TO HAVE the gear in order to run the content. That is not what this is by any means.

Xpiher.5209:

tkalamba.2541:

Ruby Red.4019:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

It’s changing their stated game philosophy – play it your way – not any more – no gear grind – not any more – multiple paths to a goal – not any more – no exclusion from content based on gear – not any more. And that’s what ppl have an issue with this is not the game I bought if I wanted this tired old format I’d be back in WoW or Rift.

You can still play how you want…. You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier, no upgrades means your shoehorned into what stats they give you… you can still achieve your goals anyway you want…. and your still not excluded from content…. you can do all 9 Fractals without needing Ascended gear. I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.

Like I said, we DON’T KNOW THAT. Your statement only holds true if future content doesn’t require us to have Ascended gear to even complete it. Will the next update require me to have these two rings to even make it past the first tier? What happens after they add the entire set of ascended gear? Will there be BLESSED GEAR after that?

A big thing pointed out is that they are releasing MORE of this gear later (right now it is only the accessory and back slots). This means that the Agony condition is going to be present in a LOT more content. It is easy to expect that this bleeds to WvWvW otherwise why would PvP players ever find the need to get it? Why would it even be allowed to drop in WvWvW if it wasn’t expected for them to use it at some point? Just so they could run 1 dungeon? For the hardcore PvPers, they wouldn’t care, so providing it to them means they are planning to implement it in ALL aspects of the future content. A gear set dedicated just so people can go into 1 dungeon? C’mon, they’re going to do more than that, so the people claiming that this gear will be made mandatory for endgame are absolutely right in saying so.

Dev Diary, Day 20, Post-Patch:

“I took a wander in Lion’s Arch today and was dismayed to find it almost empty save for a few denizens searching for a dungeon party for Fractals of the Mists. They were rudely refused by a player known as “Gief Moar iLvls Plz” who told them that if they did not have Ascended gear they could kitten well sit in Lion’s Arch for an eternity until they had gotten it. To this they asked the question “how can we get it if no one lets us join their dungeon groups”. Naturally, this logical question was ignored.

LA seems in good state. Time for lunch break."

Namu.5712:

Zplus.4217:

Namu.5712:

Okay guys, listen.

Think this is getting blown out of porportion to what it actually is.

First, they announced they are releasing new gear based on a dungeon. Natural reaction was omg GEAR TREADMILL.

However the gear isn’t needed to do the content which is the biggest fear: I have to gear up to do new content!! I dont have the time etc etc. This is in fact false you dont need the gear for the new content….

I am sorry but you do:

“Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.”

“. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

And if you want “the other rewards”, you will NEED ascended.

So your freaking out over unknown rewards then? That is very…. silly.

I am not freaking out, merely just pointing out the obvious from official words over personal fantasies.

As for the silly part, I wonder…

Ill just wait and see, about the new items stats and the influence they can make on my gameplay.
I think is really soon to start guessing/talking what will provoke.

Xpiher.5209:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

Exactly!? Its only a treadmill if future updates past this require the previous content update to even do the content. If new content has new armor/buffs but doesn’t require more than exotics to start then THERE ISN’T AN ISSUE.

Didn’t know I’d purchased WoW 2.0

Urxx.6840:

Namu.5712:

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Why do you assume that somone who is willing to try very difficult content is all happy to trash his/her exotics and start acquiring new gear to do so? Especially after he’s been led to believe this wouldn’t have been the case?

Even though this patch is particularly causal-unfriendly doesn’t mean it doesn’t damages other players as well. I’m one for instance.

Hows it more difficult? Are there different mechanics? No, the only change is that the dot you get is stronger does more damage…. it doesn’t take anymore or less skill then before only difference is you neekittenigation stat.

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

If you think they’re gonna introduce this new mechanic and only use it in one dungeon then think again.

Xpiher.5209:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

Exactly!? Its only a treadmill if future updates past this require the previous content update to even do the content. If new content has new armor/buffs but doesn’t require more than exotics to start then THERE ISN’T AN ISSUE.

There is still an issue of this gear being used in other parts of the game outside of the “progression dungeons”.

Let’s say I am in a very WvW centric guild. Let’s say this guild cares about it’s reputation and power level.

Do you really think they are just going to say – eh, 8% doesn’t matter.

No… if a higher level of stats are available, we either work for them or we are forced to be sub-par not based on our skill or experience, but instead based on the amount of time we spend PREPARING for what it is we actually want to do.

tkalamba.2541:

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

An you read before write somethings.Gw1 and Gw2 is against this form of grinding, in Gw1 for dungeon you don’t need anythings like that for doing it.

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

So if people with ascended gear were scaled down to exotic level upon entry into WvW you would have nothing to complain about correct?

Why would they change mechanics? If they can make progressive dungeons that make gear only meaningful if you want to grind them just for some pve progression that has nothing to do with pvp, or anything else whats the problem?

I think they will make dungeons more challenging but it wont be based around ascended/legendary gear. It will be based around exotic gear and progressivly get harder as you repeat it just like this content release. That is the only logical conclusion in order to avoid a gear treadmill that REQUIRES you to get it for new content…. because if you aren’t required to have the best gear for new content releases then its not really a gear treadmill is it.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson

What happend? Countless people play GW2 because they believed in ANet und GW2.
This not the case anymore. That’s what has happened.

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

Namu.5712:

Hows it more difficult? Are there different mechanics? No, the only change is that the dot you get is stronger does more damage…. it doesn’t take anymore or less skill then before only difference is you neekittenigation stat.

There’s a logic jump in your argument. You were arguing that the mitigation is not necessary, and now you are saying “agony is not that bad if you have enough mitigation”

Yes but to mitigate agony I need ascended gear. The need to mitigate agony is exactly what makes ascended gear a necessity for those who want to progress beyond a certain point of the Fractals.

In other words, you are locked out of what lies beyond that point unless you have ascended gear.

Q.E.D.

I just created an automobile race, that tests driver’s skill against each other.

Here is my philosophy:
- All racers & their teams are on equal playing fields to be fair; only skill matters.
- Any racer & their team can walk away for a time, and yet come back later and compete as if they never left. You will never be locked out of races for taking time off.
- There will be no ‘grind’ for better and better, faster and faster cars. I do not make grindy races.

In this race, you sign up, pay your fee, and I supply you with a box of parts. You and your team build your racing car from those parts supplied and only those parts.

There is no parts grind. The speed limit you see today is it, and you can easily achieve it. Now over time, I’ll add new paint job options, but those are optional. If you want to spend extra for a radical paint job you can, but your top speed will always be the same as the guy with unpainted gray car parts … fair is fair. You’ll look better, but you’ll still be equals.

Fast forward 3 months

Attention: I’ve decided to start offering higher speed, faster parts for the cars in my race. This will be the start of my new, faster parts initiative. Maybe some people were unhappy with cars having their previous top speed, maybe not, I’m not going to explain myself.

Also: Newly added racetracks will require the new parts. Sure you can compete with the old parts at first, but as I add faster and faster parts, you’ll obviously have to upgrade or be left behind.

To those of you who have a fully built car, painted the way you want it … well you have the privilege of working your way through and getting the new, faster parts to stay competitive. It’ll be FUN! Oh, you didn’t want to do that? … wait, why are you quoting my philosophy above?! … quick, someone who loves parts grinding get in here and defend me!

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

I don’t need a guide to new dungeon, i’m an 6 years old player of Gw1, following gw2 whit every blog post, interview etc, and no one devs of arenanet said that they will introduce this time of progression whit gear.In gw1 you don’t need to to dungeon for equip against a condition whit some better gear than the outhers dungeons.We are more people here against this kitten meccanics, you think that we are all stupid and we can’t learn and read somethings about this?

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

So if people with ascended gear were scaled down to exotic level upon entry into WvW you would have nothing to complain about correct?

Probably not. I wouldn’t be happy, but depending on how it was implemented I might be tolerant.

I would still be very concerned about the future of the game, because a lot of people (including my family) prefer PvE and don’t have the time or energy to chase gear around.

I would prefer that Exotics remain the top of the line, and “progression” dungeons are designed around a mechanic that has no affect on any other part of the game AND allows for players to catch up easily and quickly at a later time.