Thoughts on Ascended Gear? [Merged threads]
I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Try crafting something more exotic like Foefire Essence.
New intermediate tier is required Nobody doubt about that.
Better stats on new gear? Why?
Hard to craft exotics = more worthless Unless you go for vanity, but you might as well aim straight for legendary.
They could have upgraded some exotics to Ascended quality, give them same stats as exotic but provide increased PvE functions via Infusion slots – to satisfy Dungeoners, PvPers and people with principles, as well as people who already invested on these “semi-legendaries”.
Anyways the update is more than just Ascended Gears. If Ascended quality really need the stats+ we will need time to see. First impression from most complainers is that stat+ is just lowballing current players, and dissuading virgin MMO players since “GW2 is just another Grind MMO like WoW, need alot of commitment” rethoric coming from the uninformed
Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?
They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.
They just go vs their gaming phylosophy.
Even if this was the case, don’t you think that there is something unacceptable with advertising the game as avoiding the gear progression model for years and then suddenly adding it in a few months post release?
I’ll reply both at the same.
I don’t think it’s going to be a gear treadmill model because there’s no evident of it yet. They only released one tier, which is only one. As said by the dev around 11x page, they won’t like release stronger gears every few months. No one knows, ascended could be the only update for the game lifetime that is related to gear progression.I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Right, no one know, and devs let the door open.
Maybe this new set is the last stats tier… or maybe its only the first new stats tier.
Before to continue to play, and buy other Anet product, i really love to know what’s the Development line they decide to Follow, but without PR Blog or other kitten…
A straight Answer:
1)Yes this is the only one STATS TIER we add in the whole Gw2 Life
2)No, we are going to develop new items with better new stats, increase level cap etc etc etc.
Keep silence here, when they know that most of the players here prefer the option number 1, make most of us thinking that they prefer the option number 2.
So why dont simply clarify this… they are humans as we are and think they are mature enough to confront with their community, but if we talk about business, i think that this silence (and not only on this tread) is really hurting this project.
Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
Nice … after playing years in ‘’you know what game’’ grinding gears finally to quit for gw2 to have a casual mmo and have more real life time knowing this game was base on skills and not who has better gears… ‘’I always wanted to have time consuming: scrap my current gears for new better one treadmill! (i mean progression…)’’sarcasm’’’’ so this game goes from skills to who has better gears to do dungons/wvw …
thanks for the false information areanet … I would of not bought gw2 knowing that you would do this I’m very disappointed … I now have no hope in this genre of game for casual play . Thanks for the fun since beta good few months…
P.S: To those saying there not better should really check the official ascendent/exotic and make the math when they finally lunch the full sets which they will (and what will be the next set they already broke there promise once..)… There goes my hype for the patch.
ive seen the thread, and i also something niec and good, a cheaper way to obtain 20 slot bags.
and that gift of ascension interests me, anyone knows what that does?
BTW for something different here is everything i found of the new dungeon and how it works (also information on the Ascended Gear) so far: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lostshores/mmorpg-com-Fractals-of-the-Mists-Preview/first#post740852
Well regarding the new gear and recent info on various sites, it seems to me that the Prototype Fractal Capacitors are a new gem item for current exotics (to give current exotics ascended item stats).
I wonder how they will do this with armor and weapons, with gem items it’s easy enough as there is only a few kind of gems, but with armor and weapons they’d need to make a number of new sets of each sigil and rune type (beserker sigil of bloodlust, knights sigil of bloodlust etc).
I’m really interested in these new Prototype Fractal Capacitors items, as these to me seems like they would be a craftable item at some point (if infact they are a new gem for exotic items) – but i wonder how much they will go for?,. Currently a top of the line gem is around 40 silver (last i checked) but considering the fractals required for the dungeon version i have to wonder how much a craftable version of the new gem (if that’s what it is) would cost.
—-
If these are a new gem, then at least it would mean current exotics would have a place – if there was just Ascended items a fresh 80 would manybe skip the exotic and just go from rare to ascended, but if you can buy a gem for an exotic and upgrade it to ascended stats then it it would be tempting to go from rare to exotic to upgrading exotic.
Zilori: Guardian – Desolation.
Zarturo: Elemental – Desolation.
Zarturo: Elemental – Desolation.
(edited by MajorMelchett.6042)
Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?
They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.
They just go vs their gaming phylosophy.
Even if this was the case, don’t you think that there is something unacceptable with advertising the game as avoiding the gear progression model for years and then suddenly adding it in a few months post release?
I’ll reply both at the same.
I don’t think it’s going to be a gear treadmill model because there’s no evident of it yet. They only released one tier, which is only one. As said by the dev around 11x page, they won’t like release stronger gears every few months. No one knows, ascended could be the only update for the game lifetime that is related to gear progression.I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Right, no one know, and devs let the door open.
Maybe this new set is the last stats tier… or maybe its only the first new stats tier.
Before to continue to play, and buy other Anet product, i really love to know what’s the Development line they decide to Follow, but without PR Blog or other kitten…
A straight Answer:1)Yes this is the only one STATS TIER we add in the whole Gw2 Life
2)No, we are going to develop new items with better new stats, increase level cap etc etc etc.
Keep silence here, when they know that most of the players here prefer the option number 1, make most of us thinking that they prefer the option number 2.
So why dont simply clarify this… they are humans as we are and think they are mature enough to confront with their community, but if we talk about business, i think that this silence (and not only on this tread) is really hurting this project.
Let’s say they say 1). That would mean they have already deceived us once, because that tier wasn’t supposed to exist according to what they said for several years. So why would you believe them this time?
The only way they can keep their word and come out clean from this mess is by removing ascended gear altogether and giving infusion slots to exotics.
I don’t entirely agree with you on that, I believe the progression in gear is a knee jerk reaction – its soooo poorly done that they can’t have been planning this for more than a month. Let me elaborate:
1) According to the blog the rings can only be acquired through the fractals – had they had this ready from the get-go there would other sources as well, especially for WvW since the stat increase says f… you to those who don’t want to run the fractals2) They would have known the backlash from the community – they advertised another game than what we are currently getting and I see no real attempt at damage control what so ever…They would have prepared for damage control from the get go if they had planned this for a long time
3) The way the rings work – there is no longer a “real” upgrade slot – that seems silly, I personally think it’s because they haven’t yet added the code for two upgrade slots (1 regular 1 infusion") if they had the code for two upgrade slots I don’t see the point in kittening those specs that are more all-round compared to those who are more focused.
Agreed, while it’s possible that they may have had some external forces pushing for this prior to release, I think it’s much more likely that this was a knee-jerk reaction to the public outcry for gear progression. They simply tacked on the item progression initiative to an already planned update.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.
It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.
You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.
Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.
But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”
At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.
Thank you, that makes quite a bit of sense.
So even though you are looking forward to all the changes as a whole, keeping the progression model horizontal would also have been perfectly acceptable in your views?
It’s a bit of a misleading question. If keeping the progression model horizontal WOULD have been acceptable, then by inference this is no longer the case.
Adding a tier, that must have been in the works before the game went live, does not constitute a radical departure from their stated philosophy in my book. What stinks of conspiracy, and what I feel is getting people upset is that they stated they are bumping legendaries up to the level of ascended.
This makes sense from a purely technical perspective as ascended items were meant as a filler between exotic and legendary, or quasi-legendary. A filler specifically designed so that people finding legendaries absolutely daunting to acquire would have something to strive for. What doesn’t make political sense is that they consider bumping the stats over exotic a non-issue.
I can accept the changes because:
1) I don’t believe their goal is introduce a limitless number of tiers; thus introducing a treadmill of upgrading.
2) A few points of anything extra on a piece of gear does not excite me personally. I do get excited by fancy looking skins.
Thanks. As for your question, I don’t know about it myself. I guess it’s human nature to like the illusion-feel of being stronger than the pve monsters while they progresses. I only feel that item progression is better than no progression, which is why I welcome ascended addition.
You know, I’m all for you getting your progression with bigger numbers. If someone wants to grind out 500 buttcoins to buy gear with bigger numbers, fine. It’s not my cup of tea, but I’m not gonna hold it against anyone how they choose to play the game.
But keep those bigger numbers the hell out of WvW! That’s my big concern right there, there is absolutely no reason someone that grinds a dungeon should gain a stat advantage in the pvp side of the game. It wasn’t fun back in WoW and it won’t be fun here. Because I tell you, the first time I lose a fight in WvW solely because the other guy spent 20 hours raiding is the day I have a very serious problem.
The whole philosophy of the game was “You can do whatever you find most enjoyable and you’re on the same footing as everyone else” But now in order to remain at that level, you’re forced to go grind a dungeon. That’s pants on head kitten and the kind of stale old MMO design that this game was supposed to get away from.
Sure, dev guy’s PR speak post here said “Ascended gear will be available in WvW and other sources in the future” Did you see the key words there? At some unspecified period of time we can stop being forced to grind a dungeon for this pointlessly bloated gear. Look, they haven’t even got guesting working. They haven’t fixed the massive player rendering issues in 3 months. I don’t have too much hope that this “alternative availability” of ascended gear will be in any rational timeframe.
So until then, those of us who don’t like dungeons are forced to do dungeons to stay on the gear train. And that rubs me the wrong way.
—Arakny, 80 Engineer
—Tarnished Coast
—Tarnished Coast
Why is everyone still crying about this?
If this was a genuine question and not a rethorical one it would be a good question. A question ANet should try to honestly answer.
They could understand a couple of things before they steer the game in a very dangerous direction.
Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.
It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.
You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.
Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.
But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”
At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.
Because vertical item progression in GW2 is an absolute deal breaker and if this is the direction the game is changing to, then we’d like to know if we have a future here.
Speculation at best
No, unfortunately it’s a fairly sound conclusion based on the evidence available, and supported by what Mr. Whiteside and Ms. Murdock said in their posts.
Please note how Ms. Murdock uses the terms “end game” and “high-end players”; her use of those terms contradict the “the whole game is the end game” philosophy of the original development manifesto:
“The first end game mechanic we will introduce is Agony, which will be encountered in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and is mitigated by Infusions.”
and:
“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”
Next, look at this comment by Ms. Murdock:
“Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level.”
The original development team didn’t consider eternal progression a “a basic need” for players, which is why there was no stat difference between between exotics and legendaries, and why they were adamant about capping stats at a fairly easy-to-get level. They used cosmetic differences to satisfy the need for a sense of achievement and not progression.
Now, let’s look at what Mr. Whiteside said:
“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from Exotic up to Legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "
There is no “massive jump in reward” between exotic and legendary; they have the same stats. What “progression” is he talking about? In the original philosophy, there was no “progression” from exotic to Legendary. This only makes sense if they have changed the philosophy from “cosmetic variance” for the sake of a sense of achievement to stat differences for the sake of progression.
Many people here are trying to interpret what they have said in terms of them being true to the original vision, and trying to interpret the increase of Ascended stats over Exotic as a “mistake” that can be corrected. However, they are not making semantic errors here. They are not simply mis-phrasing what they are saying.
The manifesto philosophy has been ditched. The “item progression initiative” is not something intended to somehow “fit in” with the original vision. The “end game” is no longer seen as “the whole game”. When Mr. Whiteside says they are not going to pump in new gear with higher stats “every three months” , he means what he says – they’re not going to do it “every three months”. If he had meant this is a one-time correction, he would have said “there will be no future items pumped in with higher stats”.
It is what it is, and it has been stated about as clearly as they can while still trying to spin it enough so that customers or fans who simply want to refuse to believe ANET did this can remain in denial.
And, the evidence points to this being a decision made in spite of a highly successful launch and at least decently-populated servers, not because of some dramatic failure or unforseen calamity.
How is ONE tier of new equipment after 3 months into the game a deal breaker? Who’s to say that implementing ascension gear wasn’t always the plan as the final plateau of equipment?
Adding a tier, that must have been in the works before the game went live, does not constitute a radical departure from their stated philosophy in my book.
If the tier was in the works before the game went live, why haven’t they spoken about it before, letting us players decide if we wanted to invest in exotics or wait for ascended.
Oh wait, they would have sold a lot less gems…
Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?
They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.
They just go vs their gaming phylosophy.
Even if this was the case, don’t you think that there is something unacceptable with advertising the game as avoiding the gear progression model for years and then suddenly adding it in a few months post release?
I’ll reply both at the same.
I don’t think it’s going to be a gear treadmill model because there’s no evident of it yet. They only released one tier, which is only one. As said by the dev around 11x page, they won’t like release stronger gears every few months. No one knows, ascended could be the only update for the game lifetime that is related to gear progression.I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Right, no one know, and devs let the door open.
Maybe this new set is the last stats tier… or maybe its only the first new stats tier.
Before to continue to play, and buy other Anet product, i really love to know what’s the Development line they decide to Follow, but without PR Blog or other kitten…
A straight Answer:1)Yes this is the only one STATS TIER we add in the whole Gw2 Life
2)No, we are going to develop new items with better new stats, increase level cap etc etc etc.
Keep silence here, when they know that most of the players here prefer the option number 1, make most of us thinking that they prefer the option number 2.
So why dont simply clarify this… they are humans as we are and think they are mature enough to confront with their community, but if we talk about business, i think that this silence (and not only on this tread) is really hurting this project.Let’s say they say 1). That would mean they have already deceived us once, because that tier wasn’t supposed to exist according to what they said for several years. So why would you believe them this time?
The only way they can keep their word and come out clean from this mess is by removing ascended gear altogether and giving infusion slots to exotics.
Call it a development error, during their live they see that esotics are too easy to acquire (even if its easy only for the players that can play 6\7 hours + in a day), and they decide to make another tier (less easy to make)
im a kind of persons that tend to give to the others a second chance, with reserve for sure… if you betray me again, its over… Forever.
Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.
I personally want to hear a more detailed explanation of this “item progression initiative” and whether the original game philosophy is still being followed.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
“Complete Guide to Fractals of the Mists” : http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists – a lot of information, but not much on the Ascended gear – it seems from a previous post that the rings will be a RNG drop in dungeon and I can only presume the pictured Gift of Ascension is used to craft the backpiece…
Quaggan says NO to skinner boxes.
Skritt says YES to more cosmetic shinies.
Skritt says YES to more cosmetic shinies.
Adding a tier, that must have been in the works before the game went live, does not constitute a radical departure from their stated philosophy in my book.
If the tier was in the works before the game went live, why haven’t they spoken about it before, letting us players decide if we wanted to invest in exotics or wait for ascended.
Oh wait, they would have sold a lot less gems…
Maybe it was….you know….a surprise?
“To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment?”
Yes. What are you, dense or something? This is exactly what we expected. New gear (toughness,con, heal power) maybe, but not stronger. We have 7 years of this, and 3 years of promises, backing up that we thought this would happen.
What did YOU expect when you joined the game?
This reminds me more and more of the JP story point and click game that came out 1-2 years ago. People were complaining left and right that the game that advertised it’s self as a “point and click story adventure” wasn’t a good enough first person shooter.
What the hell people?
I started playing GW2 because I wanted to try something other than a gear treadmill game as I had been playing one for 6 years prior.
If I wanted a gear treadmill I’d keep playing WoW, at least their group content is FAR more polished.
¯\(°_o)/¯
Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.
I personally want to hear a more detailed explanation of this “item progression initiative” and whether the original game philosophy is still being followed.
I like your signature. Shame they’re not sticking to their guns.
¯\(°_o)/¯
“To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment?”
Yes. What are you, dense or something? This is exactly what we expected. New gear (toughness,con, heal power) maybe, but not stronger. We have 7 years of this, and 3 years of promises, backing up that we thought this would happen.
What did YOU expect when you joined the game?
What I expected was an amazing game that I enjoy. So far I haven’t been let down.
I did NOT expect that after 3 months I’d never have to do anything ever again.
How is ONE tier of new equipment after 3 months into the game a deal breaker? Who’s to say that implementing ascension gear wasn’t always the plan as the final plateau of equipment?
Because the way the world works is once you make an exception to a design philosophy, it makes it very easy to do it again.
It’s like the story of the frog and the boiling pot of water.
Put it into boiling water right away and he will jump out. Put him in temperate water and turn the heat up slowly and he will stay there to be boiled.
The fact that for years they’ve held true to entirely horizontal progression is what makes this perplexing. If it’s been the plan for a long time as the final plateau, (as you posit), why would they have never communicated that to their player base? It doesn’t make sense to keep it secret and then spring it like this with a few days notice.
Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?
They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.
They just go vs their gaming phylosophy.
Even if this was the case, don’t you think that there is something unacceptable with advertising the game as avoiding the gear progression model for years and then suddenly adding it in a few months post release?
I’ll reply both at the same.
I don’t think it’s going to be a gear treadmill model because there’s no evident of it yet. They only released one tier, which is only one. As said by the dev around 11x page, they won’t like release stronger gears every few months. No one knows, ascended could be the only update for the game lifetime that is related to gear progression.I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Right, no one know, and devs let the door open.
Maybe this new set is the last stats tier… or maybe its only the first new stats tier.
Before to continue to play, and buy other Anet product, i really love to know what’s the Development line they decide to Follow, but without PR Blog or other kitten…
A straight Answer:1)Yes this is the only one STATS TIER we add in the whole Gw2 Life
2)No, we are going to develop new items with better new stats, increase level cap etc etc etc.
Keep silence here, when they know that most of the players here prefer the option number 1, make most of us thinking that they prefer the option number 2.
So why dont simply clarify this… they are humans as we are and think they are mature enough to confront with their community, but if we talk about business, i think that this silence (and not only on this tread) is really hurting this project.Let’s say they say 1). That would mean they have already deceived us once, because that tier wasn’t supposed to exist according to what they said for several years. So why would you believe them this time?
The only way they can keep their word and come out clean from this mess is by removing ascended gear altogether and giving infusion slots to exotics.
Call it a development error, during their live they see that esotics are too easy to acquire (even if its easy only for the players that can play 6\7 hours + in a day), and they decide to make another tier (less easy to make)
im a kind of persons that tend to give to the others a second chance, with reserve for sure… if you betray me again, its over… Forever.
Life has taught me to do that the first time you betray me, not the second one.
The ones who deserve trust don’t betray. The ones who betray once, usually do it again if you let them.
“I did NOT expect that after 3 months I’d never have to do anything ever again.”
So in other words you bought a first person shooter expecting to command men and build structures. Wonderful.
“To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment?”
Yes. What are you, dense or something? This is exactly what we expected. New gear (toughness,con, heal power) maybe, but not stronger. We have 7 years of this, and 3 years of promises, backing up that we thought this would happen.
What did YOU expect when you joined the game?
What I expected was an amazing game that I enjoy. So far I haven’t been let down.
I did NOT expect that after 3 months I’d never have to do anything ever again.
It’s not about us not wanting to do new things. It’s about us not wanting to deal with vertical item progression.
As has been pointed out in this thread many times, there are lots of other ways to handle growth than simple gear or stat inflation.
No I bought an MMORPG with a lot of PvE content and things to keep me happy. Just because GW1 didn’t have any vertical progression on gear doesn’t mean that GW2 has to have none.
I personally think Ascension gear will be the last tier, and I’m fine with that.
Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?
They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.
They just go vs their gaming phylosophy.
Even if this was the case, don’t you think that there is something unacceptable with advertising the game as avoiding the gear progression model for years and then suddenly adding it in a few months post release?
I’ll reply both at the same.
I don’t think it’s going to be a gear treadmill model because there’s no evident of it yet. They only released one tier, which is only one. As said by the dev around 11x page, they won’t like release stronger gears every few months. No one knows, ascended could be the only update for the game lifetime that is related to gear progression.I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Right, no one know, and devs let the door open.
Maybe this new set is the last stats tier… or maybe its only the first new stats tier.
Before to continue to play, and buy other Anet product, i really love to know what’s the Development line they decide to Follow, but without PR Blog or other kitten…
A straight Answer:1)Yes this is the only one STATS TIER we add in the whole Gw2 Life
2)No, we are going to develop new items with better new stats, increase level cap etc etc etc.
Keep silence here, when they know that most of the players here prefer the option number 1, make most of us thinking that they prefer the option number 2.
So why dont simply clarify this… they are humans as we are and think they are mature enough to confront with their community, but if we talk about business, i think that this silence (and not only on this tread) is really hurting this project.Let’s say they say 1). That would mean they have already deceived us once, because that tier wasn’t supposed to exist according to what they said for several years. So why would you believe them this time?
The only way they can keep their word and come out clean from this mess is by removing ascended gear altogether and giving infusion slots to exotics.
Call it a development error, during their live they see that esotics are too easy to acquire (even if its easy only for the players that can play 6\7 hours + in a day), and they decide to make another tier (less easy to make)
im a kind of persons that tend to give to the others a second chance, with reserve for sure… if you betray me again, its over… Forever.
Life has taught me to do that the first time you betray me, not the second one.
The ones who deserve trust don’t betray. The ones who betray once, usually do it again if you let them.
People make errors, when a computer make a critical error, i format it before look the hardware part…
Now we cant format the devs team, but we can see if after this critical error they can work as always :P
Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
I did NOT expect that after 3 months I’d never have to do anything ever again.
What you or I or others expected is totally irrelevant. What’s relevant is how they advertised their game phylosophy.
Which was to add content, not new tiers of gear.
That’s objective, while what you or I expect is entirely subjective and therefore adds nothing to this debate.
No I bought an MMORPG with a lot of PvE content and things to keep me happy. Just because GW1 didn’t have any vertical progression on gear doesn’t mean that GW2 has to have none.
I personally think Ascension gear will be the last tier, and I’m fine with that.
But you understand where we are coming from then right?
The game was advertised, hyped, and sold as not being about vertical progression. Precedent with Anet and GW1 has showed this to be the case and all the GW2 prelaunch interviews and information confirmed that this design principle was still driving GW2.
Now this is changing 3 months post release.
It’s quite simple why many are not thrilled.
What part of this statement dont some of you understand?
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
I mean they have spelled it out for you guys... All im saying is have faith and trust what they say...
Tis not what they can do for you
Tis only what you can do for all
Tis only what you can do for all
knee-jerk reaction to the public outcry for gear progression
What public outcry?
The only public outcry here is this one. Exactly in what form did those allegedly great number of people reach ArenaNet? This is the place where you talk with the developers. If somebody plays an MMO and knows what an e-mail address is, he knows what a forum is too.
There was never any outcry for progression from the gamers. This is the place where communication is possible with the devs and there was zero outcry here. There is no other method through which anyone could have achieved any kind of a meaningful result. You cannot even normally find the emal adresses of the devs wthout coming up to the man side and incidently finding the forums too.
Unless the criers were ninjas, there was no outcry.
Their game philosophy never said that there would be no higher tier than exotic though.
There’s already progression in this game. White → Blue → Green → Yellow → Orange/Red
Well, I would put it this way. No, you can’t be a hundred percent sure, that they wont add new tiers on a longterm-perspective. But I personally don’t expect them to do it every some months. I have to say I’m not such a purist to say that there never ever has to be a slight stat-increase as long as people are not forced to gain that stat-increase to keep playing all those sorts of content.
Atm it’s no problem to run the dungeon in rares so if it stay this way and if it doesn’t add signifikant differences in PvP I can live with that. I mean did they abandon their vision at some point? Of course, I would say. Will it change everything? For me not, as long as they keep in mind that they obviously got a huge playerbase who doesn’t go for progress.
I mean if you got to grind 800 hours for a piece of gear or something like that which is 8% stronger so be it. I really hope a majority not is that insane to do it. This increase keeps people competitive in WvW and PvE who don’t have it still.
Everything is about compromises and well I think we got to live with it. Am I happy with that? No Will I leave the game for that? No. I’m way to much of an egoist to stay there and enjoy the rest of the content.
For those people telling me’d go for progression: I was raging quite alot on the german forum in the recent days, bit I think it will lead nowhere A-Net are NOT our friends they are a company.
(edited by Pirlipat.2479)
No I bought an MMORPG with a lot of PvE content and things to keep me happy. Just because GW1 didn’t have any vertical progression on gear doesn’t mean that GW2 has to have none.
I personally think Ascension gear will be the last tier, and I’m fine with that.
But you understand where we are coming from then right?
The game was advertised, hyped, and sold as not being about vertical progression. Precedent with Anet and GW1 has showed this to be the case and all the GW2 prelaunch interviews and information confirmed that this design principle was still driving GW2.
Now this is changing 3 months post release.
It’s quite simple why many are not thrilled.
Yes I understand where you’re coming from. But at the same time; I don’t believe they’ve broken any promises yet. Especially if this does turn out to be the final tier of equipment.
What part of this statement dont some of you understand?
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
I mean they have spelt it out for you guys… All im saying is have faith and trust what they say…
None, it’s pretty clear. Pity it’s contradicted by what they are doing and doesn’t address the real problem the community has with this new tier of gear: that it goes against years of interviews, manifestos and blog posts on their end.
What part of this statement dont some of you understand?
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
I mean they have spelt it out for you guys… All im saying is have faith and trust what they say…
if i have to be honest, this part is kinda vague… ok not every 3 month…every 4, 5 6?
the words have a great power if used well… not im not english native, so i cant write well, but i understand clearly when something is vague or doublesided, and this is the case.
this is what im asking: CLARITY
Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.
It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.
You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.
Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.
But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”
At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.
Correction on bold, they said all end-game gear would be equal in stats and it has been posted, serveral times, and mentioned several times as well.
Again, even if the ascended gear had 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better stats NO ONE IS SAYING QQ FOR 8%, the point is. There’s no reason to add new gear with higher stats when it was ANNOUNCED that there would be no such thing.
THIS is the reason why people are complaining, THIS has nothing to do with the updated content, THIS has everything to do with “WHY are you doing something you were against of in the first place?”.
Get it?, now go home.
No I bought an MMORPG with a lot of PvE content and things to keep me happy. Just because GW1 didn’t have any vertical progression on gear doesn’t mean that GW2 has to have none.
I personally think Ascension gear will be the last tier, and I’m fine with that.
But you understand where we are coming from then right?
The game was advertised, hyped, and sold as not being about vertical progression. Precedent with Anet and GW1 has showed this to be the case and all the GW2 prelaunch interviews and information confirmed that this design principle was still driving GW2.
Now this is changing 3 months post release.
It’s quite simple why many are not thrilled.
Yes I understand where you’re coming from. But at the same time; I don’t believe they’ve broken any promises yet. Especially if this does turn out to be the final tier of equipment.
So according to you to break a promise you have to act against it more than once?
Ok so there’s allot of speculation about ascended gear right now, and i must admit i was one of the ragers in the beginning. But now i looked into the matter and this is what i think. (or how i think it should be, if A-net want to stay true to it’s original design philosophy, while still catering to the hardcore)
How do you mix the progression with a system that retains a power plateau? This must have been the biggest thought on the devs minds in the last few months, they want to be the biggest and baddest mmo out there, so to achieve this goal they have to attract as many people as they can. Casual and hardcore, pve and pvp. I personally think the GW2 sPvp and tPvp surpasses any mmo out there already. I know this is a matter of opinion, so i’ll keep it at that. But i think that’s why they aren’t changing anything.
So how do you create a system where everyone is equal and yet everyone can still progress. It’s a hard task to achieve. Progression usually means that some people progress faster then others and get ahead of them, and often it’s nearly impossible to catch up. So how do you solve this problem?
First question, should people have to do dungeons to obtain the highest level or armor in game? I think the answer here should be no. And seeing this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside has kind of convinced me that there will be other ways to obtain this gear, aka it will not be in this dungeon alone. I don’t think it’s their intention to make this new armor type exclusive. So what is the deal then, and to this i think i got the anwser. Infusions. I think the new armor that will be introduced will be the new max armor, and stay that way, because of this.
Think about it, to reach further in to the neverending dungeon and difficulty levels, you will need to get infusions that counter agony. You get a bit stronger so you get a bigger chance to reach far in the dungeon. To be the best. Add achievements and unique but of course not more powerfull rewards to the higher lvls and people will be going for them, while still having anti-agony stats go up that better your chances.
And when the next tier comes, agony isn’t an issue, but in some mysterious way ^^ “mind controll” now is a big issue. Time to infuse against mind-controll then. I think infusions will be changeable like you change weapons, not destroying eachother when you put others in your armor. So you keep your progress in each part of the game you progress in, one doesn’t negate the other and one doesn’t make the progression in another part worthless, cause for example if you would want to go back into the fractals dungeons you would still need the agony infusion, and if you go into another “endless dungeon” you would need the other infusion, so this way you can progress into each different endless, while not needing the infusion in any other part. (well i think WvWvW may be different, to add some progression there, i don’t really like the idea, but i guess maybe an infusion that reduces siege weapon damage(read player damage doesn’t change) by 1% for each infusion could be acceptable while not that influencing, these would of course be bought with marks of honor)
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
This way:
-There can be serious progression for the hardcore while not affecting the casual.
-All endgame content stays relevant.
-There is no powercreep and while there is a sort of threadmill for those who want it.
-By being endless pve can be really challenging and players can even compete to get the highest possible.
So the questions you are all gonna ask anyway, so i may answer them. I believe these two topics are connected.
-Why are the stats that were runes baked in now.
I think it’s something like green weapons, i think at this moment there isn’t enough difference in stats that really makes weapons unique. You’re not looking at a weapon, you just know you need a berserker exotic pistol. I think they want to have a tool to keep introducing new weapon stats and combo’s, while keeping the weapons at the same level but in stats also unique in their own way.
-Why would they need a stat increase then?
Two reasons: -These weapons aren’t exotics, since they have baked in stats, if they had the same exact stats as exotics they would be worse for this exact reason.
-To get some of the players that are hardcore and progression to try the system.
At this moment we have back slots (of wich we didn’t have an exotic yet so that’s cool, and rings. I believe in some way (maybe not right away but in time) we will be able to exchange exotics for new tier, maybe with a small fee, and i think exotics are ment to disappear (none of the skins of course, but the stats). Exotics are in my opinion the first attempt at max armor wich arenanet realised didn’t work.
-So why would they not introduce all ascended gear all at once?
Have you seen the rage for just 2 items?
I think they are trying to do what is best, and they are testing this with 2 items that aren’t visual, aren’t a reward for anything so far (except maxing jewelcrafting) and are easely reversed if it wouldn’t be working out.
So conclusion: i think (read hope) that this is the power plateau, progression will split be for each instance, content won’t wear out, and we have this great game without power creep (except for this one time now, right after launch) but with progression to suit the hardcore.
I hope to have reignited some hope and passion with some of you, i’ve had to dig deep for it myself.
Fox
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
(edited by Fox.3469)
You see this is going round and round in circles, ive explained all of this earlier in the thread, im afraid if people still do not understand that they have not contradicted anything or lied about anything yet, then they never will. A blind man cannot see, he will never see, no matter how you describe the colours to him he still wont truly understand there definition.
Tis not what they can do for you
Tis only what you can do for all
Tis only what you can do for all
Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?
They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.
They just go vs their gaming phylosophy.
Even if this was the case, don’t you think that there is something unacceptable with advertising the game as avoiding the gear progression model for years and then suddenly adding it in a few months post release?
I’ll reply both at the same.
I don’t think it’s going to be a gear treadmill model because there’s no evident of it yet. They only released one tier, which is only one. As said by the dev around 11x page, they won’t like release stronger gears every few months. No one knows, ascended could be the only update for the game lifetime that is related to gear progression.I perceive the update to be more like strengthening the progression between exotic and legendary. The progression between these 2 tiers really needs a serious emergency fix imo. (I reached exotic like in 2 days after Lv80? I calculated legendary going to take unrealistic 8 months on my pace if I play 4-8 hours per day? That’s a big gap.)
Right, no one know, and devs let the door open.
Maybe this new set is the last stats tier… or maybe its only the first new stats tier.
Before to continue to play, and buy other Anet product, i really love to know what’s the Development line they decide to Follow, but without PR Blog or other kitten…
A straight Answer:1)Yes this is the only one STATS TIER we add in the whole Gw2 Life
2)No, we are going to develop new items with better new stats, increase level cap etc etc etc.
Keep silence here, when they know that most of the players here prefer the option number 1, make most of us thinking that they prefer the option number 2.
So why dont simply clarify this… they are humans as we are and think they are mature enough to confront with their community, but if we talk about business, i think that this silence (and not only on this tread) is really hurting this project.Let’s say they say 1). That would mean they have already deceived us once, because that tier wasn’t supposed to exist according to what they said for several years. So why would you believe them this time?
The only way they can keep their word and come out clean from this mess is by removing ascended gear altogether and giving infusion slots to exotics.
Call it a development error, during their live they see that esotics are too easy to acquire (even if its easy only for the players that can play 6\7 hours + in a day), and they decide to make another tier (less easy to make)
im a kind of persons that tend to give to the others a second chance, with reserve for sure… if you betray me again, its over… Forever.
Life has taught me to do that the first time you betray me, not the second one.
The ones who deserve trust don’t betray. The ones who betray once, usually do it again if you let them.People make errors, when a computer make a critical error, i format it before look the hardware part…
Now we cant format the devs team, but we can see if after this critical error they can work as always :P
And when people are honest and have character they can admit they are wrong and fix their mistake.
knee-jerk reaction to the public outcry for gear progression
What public outcry?
The only public outcry here is this one. Exactly in what form did those allegedly great number of people reach ArenaNet? This is the place where you talk with the developers. If somebody plays an MMO and knows what an e-mail address is, he knows what a forum is too.
There was never any outcry for progression from the gamers. This is the place where communication is possible with the devs and there was zero outcry here. There is no other method through which anyone could have achieved any kind of a meaningful result. You cannot even normally find the emal adresses of the devs wthout coming up to the man side and incidently finding the forums too.
Unless the criers were ninjas, there was no outcry.
At least most of the outcries are channelled into forums which can be managed… If this disappointment overflow to other social channels like FB, Twitters etc. etc. → Imagine the negative words of mouth.
PS. Some already did went to youtube and even more public channels.
Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.
It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.
You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.
Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.
But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”
At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.
Correction on bold, they said all end-game gear would be equal in stats and it has been posted, serveral times, and mentioned several times as well.
Again, even if the ascended gear had 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better stats NO ONE IS SAYING QQ FOR 8%, the point is. There’s no reason to add new gear with higher stats when it was ANNOUNCED that there would be no such thing.
THIS is the reason why people are complaining, THIS has nothing to do with the updated content, THIS has everything to do with “WHY are you doing something you were against of in the first place?”.
Get it?, now go home.
Nope, not going anywhere. I’m going to stay and enjoy this game. I will also continue to convey my opinion as so many others seem to be doing.
Got a problem? Go home?
I didnt even read half your post to be honest. and you’re already my daily hero.
Note to thread.
Not all of us want to run dungeons or a instance thereof. Some of us just want to explore the world environment and do a little bit of PvP/WvWvW. Along the way we earn enough to buy our exotic armor set and accessories.
We continue to explore and earn to add the pattern and/or skin with associated dyes for looks. Knowing we are doing this and stats are staying equal regardless of exotic or tier level (say tier 3). We can now enter whatever content we want and not be any different than others in the group + or 1 stat distribution (healing, toughness, condition, etc).
Now there is a new choice to be made. While only 2 pieces or so, it has been stated that more are to come. Weapons are next on the list. 175 pages later people have voiced their concern, fear, hate, dislike, love, like, etc hoping to be heard. One thing for sure is that there “appears” to be more dislike than in favor of.
It doesn’t matter because it is going in tomorrow. Oddly enough I have personally never set foot into a instance/dungeon nor do I plan to. I’m still wondering the environment and smelling the flowers. A minority here, but I enjoy that more than fighting scripted beasts.
Please don’t break the environment and WvWvW aspect of the game.
Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)