Guild Wars 2

gear is somthing. yeah.
but skill and mastering all your aresnal/skills and swapping and adjusting, are far more important.

i am not saying gear is umecessary, but definitely not the one and only thing, far
from it, that you need to rock in this game.

Crapgame.6519:

Note to thread.

Not all of us want to run dungeons or a instance thereof. Some of us just want to explore the world environment and do a little bit of PvP/WvWvW. Along the way we earn enough to buy our exotic armor set and accessories.

We continue to explore and earn to add the pattern and/or skin with associated dyes for looks. Knowing we are doing this and stats are staying equal regardless of exotic or tier level (say tier 3). We can now enter whatever content we want and not be any different than others in the group + or 1 stat distribution (healing, toughness, condition, etc).

Now there is a new choice to be made. While only 2 pieces or so, it has been stated that more are to come. Weapons are next on the list. 175 pages later people have voiced their concern, fear, hate, dislike, love, like, etc hoping to be heard. One thing for sure is that there “appears” to be more dislike than in favor of.

It doesn’t matter because it is going in tomorrow. Oddly enough I have personally never set foot into a instance/dungeon nor do I plan to. I’m still wondering the environment and smelling the flowers. A minority here, but I enjoy that more than fighting scripted beasts.

Please don’t break the environment and WvWvW aspect of the game.

You must have missed where they said that they will be available by other means as well. Such as crafting for example.

FOx i respect you opinion even if havent read a single word…
What we need now are not teories, but Answers

Loosifah.4739:

Crapgame.6519:

Note to thread.

Not all of us want to run dungeons or a instance thereof. Some of us just want to explore the world environment and do a little bit of PvP/WvWvW. Along the way we earn enough to buy our exotic armor set and accessories.

We continue to explore and earn to add the pattern and/or skin with associated dyes for looks. Knowing we are doing this and stats are staying equal regardless of exotic or tier level (say tier 3). We can now enter whatever content we want and not be any different than others in the group + or 1 stat distribution (healing, toughness, condition, etc).

Now there is a new choice to be made. While only 2 pieces or so, it has been stated that more are to come. Weapons are next on the list. 175 pages later people have voiced their concern, fear, hate, dislike, love, like, etc hoping to be heard. One thing for sure is that there “appears” to be more dislike than in favor of.

It doesn’t matter because it is going in tomorrow. Oddly enough I have personally never set foot into a instance/dungeon nor do I plan to. I’m still wondering the environment and smelling the flowers. A minority here, but I enjoy that more than fighting scripted beasts.

Please don’t break the environment and WvWvW aspect of the game.

You must have missed where they said that they will be available by other means as well. Such as crafting for example.

“in time”

How much time? Why delayed? How many more times? How long will the grind be?

Loosifah.4739:

Their game philosophy never said that there would be no higher tier than exotic though.

There’s already progression in this game. White -> Blue -> Green -> Yellow -> Orange/Red

Adding a new tier post release is vertical progression. Arguing that just because they didn’t say exotic means it isn’t vertical progression is absurd logic.

Yamiino.1827:

Loosifah.4739:

Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.

It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.

You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.

Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.

But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”

At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.

Correction on bold, they said all end-game gear would be equal in stats and it has been posted, serveral times, and mentioned several times as well.

Again, even if the ascended gear had 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better stats NO ONE IS SAYING QQ FOR 8%, the point is. There’s no reason to add new gear with higher stats when it was ANNOUNCED that there would be no such thing.

THIS is the reason why people are complaining, THIS has nothing to do with the updated content, THIS has everything to do with “WHY are you doing something you were against of in the first place?”.

Get it?, now go home.

Im afraid this is nonsense unless you come up with links to proof of what your saying. its almost like chinese whispers. people read a statment or watch a video and they fill the blanks in themselves and add what they think appropriate or they add what they think is between the lines. Alot of statements people are making here are untrue.

Maybe its a language barrier? I dont know.. But please guys for the sake of all our sanity if your going to make a claim please link the source from now on so we can read it ourselves and see how you might have come to your conclusions.

Thanks..

Cyric.7485:

GADefence.5634:

“By that logic anything up until now that wasn’t an Exotic tier item has been considered an obsolete item? "

Yes. Yes it is. Seriously? Look at rares : 15 silver a piece. Look at exotics, 1+ gold for most of them (usually, the minimum craft cost + a %). . .

Yellows cost more then 15 silver to make, yet sell for 15 silver. WHY? Simple, that’s the price ectos are at. Hence, obsolete. People go drops -> maybe yellows -> exotics and never look at yellows again. (I went blues/greens to exotics personally)

The biggest difference in moving from rares to exotics are the base stats such as weapon damage and armor value. The additional Power/Precision/Toughness/etc increase is hardly noticeable, to me anyway. I had no trouble stomping the PvE scene or the WvW scene with my rares and when I upgraded to exotics I saw a slight increase in my performance but nothing that made me think “OMGWTFHAVEIBEENDOINGTHISENTIRETIME!?!?!”. Anyone who deems something “obsolete” because it’s lacking a whopping 5 stat points is, IMO, probably a min/maxer. I can kick someone’s teeth in with 3k Power or 2k Power, hardly makes a difference in the grand scheme of stats.

OK. A few points. Weapon damage has a very major role in how much damage you do. The higher quality of the weapon, the higher the base damage. THEY ARE MAKING LEGENDARIES BETTER. Just thought I’d toss that your way in case you missed it. The single biggest factor in power escalation is going to be the legendary weapons that are already in play… they are upgrading them. This will have dramatic effect in the game… but you’ll notice yourselves soon enough.

The other point I’d like to make, because it was mentioned earlier in this thread…. “attack” isn’t a stat. I don’t care what your hero panel says, because it just isn’t a stat. The damage formula at no time EVER adds your weapon damage to your power stat. It is completely irrelevant what your “attack” is. Your 2000 attack could be over 25 times better than my 2000 attack…. how you ask? 1k weapon damage times 1k power = 1 million … vs my 20 weapon damage times my 1980 power = 39600. Arbitrary and unlikely, but illustrates the point. Attack isn’t inherently meaningful.

Relatedly, the difference between 2k power and 3k power is rather startling. I don’t know how you can suggest that it is insignificant unless you are either trying to mislead intentionally, or have been mislead yourself. 916 power is base… and power works in a multiplicative manner in the damage formula. So if 916 power is base, then that gives us base damage. This means for every 916 extra power we have, we increase the damage multiplier by the next integer. So 1832 power is times 2 damage… 2748 is times 3 damage. With your numbers… 2k power is about 2.2 times damage, and k power is about 3.3 times damage … basically a 50% increase.

You know what compounds this whole issue? The fact that power is multiplied by weapon damage. An increase in weapon damage increases the value of power, and an increase in power ramps up the value of weapon damage. The scale off of each other… all the main damage stats do in one form or another. Adding even a small amount of additional stats drastically increases the damage potential of a character beyond the capabilities of the people still stuck in exotics.

This last section, is my pure speculation and rough ball guesstimate.

Based on the example shown of the ascended gear, it’s relative power increase when expanded out to a full set, accounting for differential stat allotment budgeting per item type… IF the infusions themselves do not have numerical stats on them…which is a big if…. we will likely see an increase in base weapon damage for legendaries of around 80-100. And an extra 150-200 to one stat, and 90-120 to 2 other stats.

That may seem minor… but I assure you it is very, very far from minor. Full dps zerk specs will likely do 20-25% more damage… because their base damage will have gone up, their damage multiplier will have gone up, their crit rate will have gone up, their crit damage will have gone up.

As I said, there is speculation in that number, and a healthy amount of it. But I’d wager real money that it wont be far from that 20-25% increase if they go forward with this… and it would be even more extreme if infusions have stats on them too. I’m going to break down the number later today, with exact modeling after gear allocations and plug in the maths to see what a more precise estimate will be… just for the sake of it, but my napkin math estimate ain’t terribly far off, I’m sure. Whether or not you think that constitutes a huge change or not? All on you. I do though.

Have you been in the game lately? Have you seen how much of the map isn’t open yet? Or how many bugs are in the game still? You don’t really think this game is completely coded and finished yet; do you? So why would you think that all the gear was ready to go straight from the start?

Loosifah.4739:

How is ONE tier of new equipment after 3 months into the game a deal breaker? Who’s to say that implementing ascension gear wasn’t always the plan as the final plateau of equipment?

Implementing any equipment that is a vertical, statistical improvement over the current stat cap is a deal breaker. I’m not interested in playing a game where my 100%-of-maximum-power characters get bumped down to 90% and I have to waste time grinding to get back up to the same place I was when I started.

And if Ascended is planned as the be-all, end-all, ‘this is the absolute maximum guys, ever, we swear’ tier of equipment (and that’s really grasping at straws, in my opinion), it’s still bad, because it’s a wholly inferior system to Exotics being the absolute maximum final tier (stat-wise). The current Exotics strike a nice balance; if my fun is derived from playing a ‘completed’ character, and I find completing that character to be unfun and tedious, the cheapest (ie: crafted) Exotics are priced at just about the limit of what I’m willing to tolerate in terms of grind.
For people who want to have things to work for, they don’t have to settle for those awful looking Pearl weapons that I’m using, and are free to work toward getting the more prestigious Exotics, with costs ranging from only 3-5x more than my crafted material, up to fancy looking equipment worth 20-30x that of my equipment, all the way up to the best-of-the-best Exotics that look really sharp and are worth 100-200x that of my equipment.
- The people who don’t want to have to grind are happy.
- The people who like progression and to have a smooth curve of goals and rewards to work toward are happy.
- The only people who aren’t happy are the ones who can’t live without seeing their numbers get bigger.

Ascended equipment is poised to be a significant step up from the cheapest Exotics when it comes to the time one has to waste trying to attain them, although it’s unlikely that they’re going to have costs anywhere close to the top-tier Exotics.

Which means that:
- People who don’t want to have to grind are unhappy.
- The people who like progression and to have a smooth curve of goals and rewards to work toward are no happier than they were to begin with (Ascended as a single tier is just a blip on the progression curve they’ve already got, to go with all the other blips, and there are likely to still be many, many Exotics that are more expensive than Ascended equipment).
- And the people who can’t live without seeing their numbers go up are a little happier – for a month or two, until Ascended gear is available for every slot. After which, they’re just as unhappy as they were to begin with.

So what’s the long-term benefit to the game, if Ascended gear is the last and only new tier they ever add?

Loosifah.4739:

Have you been in the game lately? Have you seen how much of the map isn’t open yet? Or how many bugs are in the game still? You don’t really think this game is completely coded and finished yet; do you? So why would you think that all the gear was ready to go straight from the start?

Yes I’ve ben in the game…
I was also in GW1 and I also understood ANUTs vision. Yet here we are on the eve of a gear increase….

Im going to say this again (I know its been mentioned 100 times)
Guild Wars 1…3 add-ons, 1 expansion, 7 years…..ZERO stat increases(armor, weps, atts, etc, etc, etc.)

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

Their game philosophy never said that there would be no higher tier than exotic though.

There’s already progression in this game. White -> Blue -> Green -> Yellow -> Orange/Red

Adding a new tier post release is vertical progression. Arguing that just because they didn’t say exotic means it isn’t vertical progression is absurd logic.

Also they stated clearly legendary was and was supposed to stay top tier. Exotic had the same stats so it was only logical to conclude that exotics would have been top tier stat-wise and the only difference between exotic and legendary would have been cosmetic.

There was no way someone could have imagined legendary weapons would have been boosted. Unless they shared the fact they were working on ascended gear and let players decide if they still wanted to invest on exotics or not.

But they witheld that information and I think it’s not too far fecthed to think it was because releasing it would have hurt their gem sales.

Loosifah.4739:

Yamiino.1827:

Loosifah.4739:

Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.

It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.

You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.

Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.

But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”

At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.

Correction on bold, they said all end-game gear would be equal in stats and it has been posted, serveral times, and mentioned several times as well.

Again, even if the ascended gear had 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better stats NO ONE IS SAYING QQ FOR 8%, the point is. There’s no reason to add new gear with higher stats when it was ANNOUNCED that there would be no such thing.

THIS is the reason why people are complaining, THIS has nothing to do with the updated content, THIS has everything to do with “WHY are you doing something you were against of in the first place?”.

Get it?, now go home.

Nope, not going anywhere. I’m going to stay and enjoy this game. I will also continue to convey my opinion as so many others seem to be doing.

Got a problem? Go home?

That answer is so vague it cannot be considered a proper answer…

1. ArenaNet advertised and announced gear at level 80 would be balanced in stats, they were focusing more on looks than stats like in GW1.

What they did after 3 months?, all the contrary to these statements.

2. ArenaNet sold a game promising no grind.

What they are doing after 3 months?, you are going to grind to get the ultimate weapons and sets – legendary. Since NOW it is not an option, if you see it as an optional thing, you will not be getting the best of your character.

3. Adding this new powerfull gear you will grind for (also known as the CARROT method) to achieve some goals to feel character progression.

That has nothing to do with the Guild Wars philosophy… guild wars is not about rushing dungeons, guild wars is not about getting better stats, guild wars is not about doing a dungeon over and over and over (also known as gear treadmill)… Where the hell is Guild Wars in Guild Wars 2?…

Hope you now understand the point… this aint WoW, this aint LOTRO, this aint PWI to add stuff like this like if it was the way the company rolled and advertised a product thousands of follower purchased to be betrayed 3 months after the release.

What the hell?!

Ganzo.5079:

Jezath.7395:

What part of this statement dont some of you understand?

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

I mean they have spelt it out for you guys… All im saying is have faith and trust what they say…

if i have to be honest, this part is kinda vague… ok not every 3 month…every 4, 5 6?
the words have a great power if used well… not im not english native, so i cant write well, but i understand clearly when something is vague or doublesided, and this is the case.

this is what im asking: CLARITY

Ganzo, if this is what you are asking then i completly agree with you.

More clarity and a statement that can only be taken one way would be great and i would wlecome that also. But personally i dont think that will happen they dont want to tie there hands incase they have to add something in the future and a statement like that is actually hard to make unless your fairly skilled in english literature and diplomacy.

Jezath.7395:

You see this is going round and round in circles, ive explained all of this earlier in the thread, im afraid if people still do not understand that they have not contradicted anything or lied about anything yet, then they never will. A blind man cannot see, he will never see, no matter how you describe the colours to him he still wont truly understand there definition.

But using simple logic and critical thinking skills, people like myself have explained exactly why this isn’t true. We’ve read every sentence the devs have put out on the matter. We aren’t ignoring any concrete evidence.

Until they release an official statement that either repeals the ascension gear stat increase, or pulls that part of the update for review, they have put end game vertical progression in a game that was advertised as not being focused on end game vertical gear progression.

@ganzo i think i my theory can be close to the truth, if you read it you may realise that. If it’s not close to the truth it may give A-net the idea they needed.

@Avatar, i agree, but you seem to be thinking the agony will get worse and you’ll need the infusion to counter that and nothing else will change. I think agony will be something you can deal with in the beginning, because the mobs don’t add much more challenge then that agony, but when the mobs get tougher you can progress to counter the effect. And you’ll need it because mobs get stronger, not the condition.

Jezath.7395:

Yamiino.1827:

Loosifah.4739:

Why is everyone still crying about this? The update occurs tomorrow; they’re not going to cancel it now even if some of them wanted to.

It’s one single tier of equipment, with no customization.

You can cry “well I spent real money on my exotics” but who told you to spend real money? I’ve spent real money; but not on gold.

Some will cry “But I spent time getting all these sets of exotics, I don’t want to have to get another set!” To this I just have to laugh. You’re playing a game at 3 months in and expect to NEVER get new equipment? “But it should just be cosmetics! Not higher stats!” They never said exotics would be the final tier of gear.

But this is all just speculation. I personally look forward to new content, and the ascension gear. I’m geared out in full exotics on 2 level 80 characters. You don’t see me complaining “But now I have to spend more GOLD!”

At 80 when you’re doing whatever you want to you never stop making money.

Correction on bold, they said all end-game gear would be equal in stats and it has been posted, serveral times, and mentioned several times as well.

Again, even if the ascended gear had 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% better stats NO ONE IS SAYING QQ FOR 8%, the point is. There’s no reason to add new gear with higher stats when it was ANNOUNCED that there would be no such thing.

THIS is the reason why people are complaining, THIS has nothing to do with the updated content, THIS has everything to do with “WHY are you doing something you were against of in the first place?”.

Get it?, now go home.

Im afraid this is nonsense unless you come up with links to proof of what your saying. its almost like chinese whispers. people read a statment or watch a video and they fill the blanks in themselves and add what they think appropriate or they add what they think is between the lines. Alot of statements people are making here are untrue.

Maybe its a language barrier? I dont know.. But please guys for the sake of all our sanity if your going to make a claim please link the source from now on so we can read it ourselves and see how you might have come to your conclusions.

Thanks..

I’d like to add to this

“Q: What of the level cap? Have you guys decided whether you’re going to be increasing the level cap in future expansions?

Colin: Yeah. The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely would increase it further into the game, probably through expansions is the most likely place we would do that."

The above is from 2011 btw.

So what are people going to do if they raise the level cap with expansions, Something that has been stated in the past will likely happen, and has been documented around the net.

Was this missed by people before purchasing? It was all before release… how would it be any different having to gain another 10 levels and replace gear then than it is now?

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/40868-should-level-cap-rise-with-future-expansions/

or

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/64181546

Unfortunately this was so far back apparently that all the links in those forums are dead, but they did state in the past there would be increases. There is no difference if this is the case.

No they havent lol..... I have read the same statements and I and many others have dran a different conclusion. This must be frustrating for everyone. It is for me.

@OP: I know what you mean, but that’s not how it works.

Ascended gear has better base stats AND additional stats via infusions AND protection from agony. It’s significantly better than exotic gear.

Picking holes in the way things are worded is not a very strong form of defense.

Jezath.7395:

No they havent lol….. I have read the same statements and I and many others have dran a different conclusion. This must be frustrating for everyone. It is for me.

Our difference is you read “we aren’t going to release things like this every 3 months” as, “No gear treadmill”.

We read that same statement as “We aren’t committed to not releasing additional vertical progression and are simply saying that the intervals will be at minimum 4 months.”

Until they say “We are committed to our manifesto and will never increase the gear ceiling” we can’t infer that it is their intention.

I’ve worked in communications before writing press releases like that. The art is looking at what they don’t say. And they don’t say that they won’t beyond 3 month intervals.

It’s not tin-foil hat talk, it’s how organizations work.

Jezath.7395:

What part of this statement dont some of you understand?

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

I mean they have spelled it out for you guys… All im saying is have faith and trust what they say…

No, it says they don’t have a goal to create a gear treadmill but are doing it anyway. It says they won’t do it every 3 months, but that implies 4 months is OK. Why should I have faith and trust when they told me something entirely different before I bought the game and leveled a bunch of characters?

tkalamba.2541:

I’d like to add to this

“Q: What of the level cap? Have you guys decided whether you’re going to be increasing the level cap in future expansions?

Colin: Yeah. The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely would increase it further into the game, probably through expansions is the most likely place we would do that."

The above is from 2011 btw.

So what are people going to do if they raise the level cap with expansions, Something that has been stated in the past will likely happen, and has been documented around the net.

Was this missed by people before purchasing? It was all before release… how would it be any different having to gain another 10 levels and replace gear then than it is now?

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/40868-should-level-cap-rise-with-future-expansions/

or

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/64181546

Unfortunately this was so far back apparently that all the links in those forums are dead, but they did state in the past there would be increases. There is no difference if this is the case.

Yeah and before that they had unlimited levels and then they got scraped from the game.

For a company that uses an iterative approach like ANet does, 2011 is jurassic. Unless they confirm now this is still their plan I won’t believe that to be the case.

at this moment, all we know is this:

Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear.
There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot.
For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.

I don’t see how these infusions could not be for the dungeon.

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

I hope my theory is correct, or that the idea can at least be something A-net can work with.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-gear-my-theory/first#post741329

It’s a theory/idea with ascended gear, if you want it do be like this please support it so A-net sees it.

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

Stupid or not we can, and many of us will if we think we’ve been lied to and they don’t retract their stance on this.

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

Sitting back and taking things without speaking up does nothing but turn people into victims. There is absolutely nothing wrong with speaking up and sharing what we believe. Especially if it’s done through intelligent discourse.

I don’t see why anyone would refund someone’s money after playing a game for over a month. By that point you’ve more than got your money’s worth.

But either way if people leave or stay I’m cool with it. I love the game.

If a happens I’ll have people to run dungeons with

if b happens my server will have room for people who actually enjoy the game.

It’s win/win for me

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

I like this theory fox. I ave always been an optimist snerf. I will remain so. Personally I thought anet had proved they could be trusted in what they say with what has been released and what has come before. So personally I take there statements at face value until im shown to be in error. If I am shown to be in error then of course i will retract all my posts and apolagise for being so naive. Until that time (if it ever comes) I stand by what I say.

Loosifah.4739:

I don’t see why anyone would refund someone’s money after playing a game for over a month. By that point you’ve more than got your money’s worth.

But either way if people leave or stay I’m cool with it. I love the game.

If a happens I’ll have people to run dungeons with

if b happens my server will have room for people who actually enjoy the game.

It’s win/win for me

We love the game too. It’s why we are vocal about this.

If we hated or were apathetic about the game, we wouldn’t be here.

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

Sitting back and taking things without speaking up does nothing but turn people into victims. There is absolutely nothing wrong with speaking up and sharing what we believe. Especially if it’s done through intelligent discourse.

That is true, you see I can respect your approach here. You’re not satisfied with this turn so you tell them respectfully.

As opposed to all the “I’m quitting and never supporting your company again” cries for help.

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

The amount of rage here is proportional to how much people feel betrayed. The bigger they are, the harder they fall :o

The Guild Wars franchise has always been about skill over time spent farming items.
Skill is the only factor only when all the rest is equal.
The longer/harder is to reach that max stats plateau the less the game is about skill and the longer it is about items.

Sure you aren’t competing against others in PvE – you still want to show how good you are and not (that guy doesn’t die because he spent hundreds of hours farming those items that give him the edge or spent money to buy the edge).

Way of releasing awesome, beautiful content and ruin my enthusiasm for it in the same day.

Jezath.7395:

I like this theory fox. I ave always been an optimist snerf. I will remain so. Personally I thought anet had proved they could be trusted in what they say with what has been released and what has come before. So personally I take there statements at face value until im shown to be in error. If I am shown to be in error then of course i will retract all my posts and apolagise for being so naive. Until that time (if it ever comes) I stand by what I say.

I respect your optimism, you are absolutely entitled to that.

But those of us who don’t share that optimism still have valuable input to contribute on the topic.

These discussions are a vital function for true problem solving. It’s not harmful to debate the merit of the proposed changes.

You guys don’t even know how the design is going to work nor do you know if there will be any changes to anything.

All your doing is feeding off each other like gossip girls and exaggerating as the posting continues. Honestly this is not 175 pages of people disagreeing with AN.

This is 175 pages of about 50 of the same people going on and on about the same thing page after page after page. Your feeding each other…. oh yup we can get refunds we were lied to!!! Yup if they don’t do what we want we will!!

They made promises!!! they lied!!!

No they said they wouldn’t have a game that plays the gear game. Them adding a single tier of gear does not consitute them breaking any promises or lieing to you, nor does it lay out the foundation for a “gear treadmill”.

This thread is nothing but fear mongering at this point.

Was in game for a few hours today, we were talking about the new patch… half the players didn’t even know it was coming… the other half said i know SO excited! Not one person was like omg its gonna be a gear treadmill im quitting…. NOT ONE.

So you know what forum goers…. WE ARE ALL THE MINORITY. Clearly AN did not base their choice on the crap that happens in these forums. You guys are so blind right now that all you can think about is a made up fiction in your heads and how you can twist it into oh yup lied to, bait and switched, game ruined, and whatever other crap is going through your heads. /mind blown.

tkalamba.2541:

Jezath.7395:

Im afraid this is nonsense unless you come up with links to proof of what your saying. its almost like chinese whispers. people read a statment or watch a video and they fill the blanks in themselves and add what they think appropriate or they add what they think is between the lines. Alot of statements people are making here are untrue.

Maybe its a language barrier? I dont know.. But please guys for the sake of all our sanity if your going to make a claim please link the source from now on so we can read it ourselves and see how you might have come to your conclusions.

Thanks..

I’d like to add to this

“Q: What of the level cap? Have you guys decided whether you’re going to be increasing the level cap in future expansions?

Colin: Yeah. The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely would increase it further into the game, probably through expansions is the most likely place we would do that."

The above is from 2011 btw.

So what are people going to do if they raise the level cap with expansions, Something that has been stated in the past will likely happen, and has been documented around the net.

Was this missed by people before purchasing? It was all before release… how would it be any different having to gain another 10 levels and replace gear then than it is now?

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/40868-should-level-cap-rise-with-future-expansions/

or

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/64181546

Unfortunately this was so far back apparently that all the links in those forums are dead, but they did state in the past there would be increases. There is no difference if this is the case.

Easy peacy, and it has been posted before.

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

Source: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Happy? the manifesto also has something like it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

1. Mike O’Brien: Guild Wars 2 takes everything you like about Guild Wars 1.
- Reality?, not really.

2. Colin: Most games you go out and have really fun tasks ocasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get the fun stuff. I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, hey! I swung it again, that’s great.We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2, no one enjoys it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat.
- Grind will be the main thing if you want us to get legendaries, since they do have slots and ascended wont, as far as we know.

3. Ree: We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building.
- Well you are doing so.

4. Ree: The MOST important thing in any game should be the player, we built this game for them.
- So far there has not been a REAL answer of what we are asking.

So now, speak, do you need more proofs that all of this WAS NEVER intended in the first place? Or you are going to become blind and deaf and not see and listen to anyone else’s opinion?

No matter what you want to call it, releasing a new superior tier of gear post-release is resetting everyone’s gear. Since launch, we’ve all been gathering the gear with our preferred stats and skins that’s been available through multiple outlets, not just dungeons.

Now, three months later, all that effort is now being trivialized with a gear reset. We no longer have the best gear. We now have to venture into a gated dungeon with a boring and historically unfavorable gear-based mechanic in order to get back to the top of the gear progression ladder and once again spend the gems to retain the look we want. As soon as we got to the final rung of the ladder, they decided to release a new rung, forcing us to climb it if we ever want to get back to equal height with everyone else.

Call it a treadmill or a gear reset or a vertical progression grind. I’m going to call it a betrayal of everything this company stood for up until this point. It is sad, disgusting, and reeks of corporate greed and the soullessness that comes with it. I guess the joke’s on those of us who bought into ArenaNet’s manifesto and vision for what this game should be.

Loosifah.4739:

Have you been in the game lately? Have you seen how much of the map isn’t open yet? Or how many bugs are in the game still? You don’t really think this game is completely coded and finished yet; do you? So why would you think that all the gear was ready to go straight from the start?

I’ve been wondering some of the same thing. People keep saying this and that was promised and now those promises are broken but I don’t see it. I keep seeing links to the supposed promises that say no such thing. Posters are twisting devs words and misrepresenting facts to insist a few percent difference in stats is game breaking and makes gear grinding necessary, lol, because exotic gear is now obsolete when it is not. Grinding is not necessary any more than getting exotic gear and legendary gear is grinding. You get it just by playing the game. I hear the new gear can be crafted which means it can be bought.

The gate, if one wants to say there is now a gate, is more like a crack in the sidewalk. Players seeing it will only do so after many many runs in the dungeon at very high user selected difficulty levels. And you don’t have to run the dungion to get the gear or have the gear to enjoy the dungeon at lower levels of difficulty. The infusion or whatever it is that can be purchased on the gear only allows one to run the highest dungeon difficulty and does not affect the gear stats.

You don’t have to grind the higher level dungeion difficulty in other words or the dungeon at all for that matter.

Loosifah.4739:

I don’t see why anyone would refund someone’s money after playing a game for over a month. By that point you’ve more than got your money’s worth.

But either way if people leave or stay I’m cool with it. I love the game.

If a happens I’ll have people to run dungeons with

if b happens my server will have room for people who actually enjoy the game.

It’s win/win for me

You are cool with it now… but what append if a lot of players leave? others games have passed from P2P to F2P, mechanic changes etc etc… in a continue lose lose escalation.
Maybe for you this is only the game of the moment… tomorrow they release World of wonderful farm and probably you are going to try that too.
For me (and a lot of others player i have to say) this is more than a simple game, i have waited this for 4 years (not 5 because i dont come from the GW community), searching news, reading every single blog.
So for me is a huge problem if the people leave because anet dont keep their promises or because its not clear with a lot of customers.

How is this false advertizing when they NEVER said exotic was going to be the last tier of equipment? They just said this wasn’t going to be a vertical progression game in terms of gear. But as I’ve previously stated there is ALREADY a progression table in place. Up until now exotic has just been the top.

I can’t seem to find the terms and condition agreement that I made with ArenaNet/NCSoft when I purchased the game. Does anyone know where I can find it? Cause I would just like to see what I actually agreed to.

But my general thoughts this far are anyway as follows: (What I signed under in the agreement set aside for a brief moment)

I buy a product with a description and outlines of a concept that I agree to (e.g. the Manifesto), I make a financial commitment and I think that everything is OK. No worries this far.

In my past I have actually never been a part of a trading quite like this has evolved, since it’s often not possible or desirable to change the content of the product after the customer have purchased it (like a jar of jelly or a book). Or – as in this case – I have never seen anyone change a basic principle for a product, just in an instant.

And here’s what the salesman say to me: I see your concern, you have bought our product and that is nice for our pockets of course, but we chose to take a different course than the visionaries (I still love their work anyway. And I hope they get rid of the interferers someday, for the love of the game) you originally had an agreement with. And from now on here’s how this will go down: We will spend your money on a game mechanic you didn’t sign up for. The rules of the game has changed, because some people want to do something else. We will try to make them happy as long as we can, and after that maybe some other rules will apply. Just remember for the future – Cash is King.

I mean, isn’t it a very basic principle in keeping a society functional: a certain amount of trust, commitment and follow-up of promises and agreements?

Even though I expect the agreement I signed under when getting the game, to have all the loopholes covered. (Note to self: Always read, copy and keep agreements on a safe place from now on – even though they probably just benefit the company anyway.)

Some say that there has not been any violation against the basic principles stated in the Manifesto yet, we all have to wait and see the impact, people read to much in-between the lines and so fort and so fort….

(I know this has been stated before in posts and posts before, but here it goes again)

- Linsey Murdock Unveils New High End Ascended Gear

“Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”

“New Rarity Type: Ascended

In November we’ll unveil the first Ascended items. This new rarity type falls between Exotic and Legendary on the spectrum of rarity and has slightly higher stats than Exotics."

Please note before further reading: This was not between the lines. It was THE lines.

They are introducing a new rarity in the upcoming patch. Ascended has slightly higher stats than Exotics. It was introduced to make hard-core players feel more progression. They now see the need to already adding item progression (a delicate matter normally undertaken in an expansion? – the deal was no item progression at all beyond exotics as I recall. But my memory of the Guild Wars 2 Manifesto is already fading.)

Thank you intruders for taking over the game. Thank you for changing the rules. Thank you for at least never having interfered with Guild Wars 1 and screwing up that experience too. Thank you for re-inventing the rules so soon, so I can easily decide what game I actually agree or disagree to play. And thank you for saving my money and gems on the game and expansions that I was looking forward to in the years to come. I hope you get all the money that you need and crave for from the people you want to keep. But like they say – you can’t buy love and affection. Guild Wars 1 in its best form was all about that.

The only thing I hope for – is that this “Bait and Switch” strategy that they are doing is illegal, and that they can’t actually change the rules as they see fit. Which is less likely..

Or even better just abondon the whole idea of item progression once and for all.

Anyway my confidence and trust in the system is broke, my commitment is broke, my loyality is broke, my spirit is broke, my heart..

If this goes through…

Bury my heart in the Presearing City of Ascalon, and revive me when the corrupted has been driven out of Orr.

Good post Mr. Fox. I tend to agree that Ascended gear will likely be mostly for dungeons. With infusions, the obtaining of infusions, and the messing around with such being the feeling of progression some players desire.

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?

What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

For me that extra tier means I can’t enjoy the game anymore. I bought the game based on the fact they advertised that there wasn’t nor the would have been vertical gear progression in the game. I can tell you for sure I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise.

If they break their part of the sale contract, the fundamental characteristics of the good or service, I can break mine, which is the compensation.

That said, if I wanted my money I wouldn’t have bought the game in the first place. So I still hope they retract and I can get the game I was promised.

Great post, I wish more people followed your thought process before raging about something they know very little about. Right now as more and more info becomes available it is becoming clear that this is likely the direction they are taking.

Ganzo.5079:

Loosifah.4739:

I don’t see why anyone would refund someone’s money after playing a game for over a month. By that point you’ve more than got your money’s worth.

But either way if people leave or stay I’m cool with it. I love the game.

If a happens I’ll have people to run dungeons with

if b happens my server will have room for people who actually enjoy the game.

It’s win/win for me

You are cool with it now… but what append if a lot of players leave? others games have passed from P2P to F2P, mechanic changes etc etc… in a continue lose lose escalation.
Maybe for you this is only the game of the moment… tomorrow they release World of wonderful farm and probably you are going to try that too.
For me (and a lot of others player i have to say) this is more than a simple game, i have waited this for 4 years (not 5 because i dont come from the GW community), searching news, reading every single blog.
So for me is a huge problem if the people leave because anet dont keep their promises or because its not clear with a lot of customers.

I’ve been waiting for this since GW1 as well, and there’s other games I could play right now(like Rift: Storm Legion).

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

For me that extra tier means I can’t enjoy the game anymore. I bought the game based on the fact they advertised that there wasn’t nor the would have been vertical gear progression in the game. I can tell you for sure I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise.

If they break their part of the sale contract, the fundamental characteristics of the good or service, I can break mine, which is the compensation.

That said, if I wanted my money I wouldn’t have bought the game in the first place. So I still hope they retract and I can get the game I was promised.

I am sorry but when you buy a console game or rpg/single player or even multiplayer game you cant get a refund after 3 months of playing because you decided the update they made wasn’t in line with what they said a year or two ago.

You purchased a product you did not however purchase a service.

And trying to prove you were lied to based on your take on words in an announcement based on a patch that isn’t even technically released yet is laughable.

Good luck with that in court eyeroll

Loosifah.4739:

How is this false advertizing when they NEVER said exotic was going to be the last tier of equipment? They just said this wasn’t going to be a vertical progression game in terms of gear. But as I’ve previously stated there is ALREADY a progression table in place. Up until now exotic has just been the top.

They also never said Ascended is going to be the last tier either. They just said a new tier won’t be released every three months. So how will you feel when they release a new tier every… four months? Oh I don’t think the Warcraft kids will mind. That’s what they’ve been screaming for this whole time since the game launched and ArenaNet listened, as Linsey stated in her blog.

So congratulations. You’ve got yourself another Warcraft clone. Let’s see how long it lasts before you get bored with it and cry, beg, and plead for a company to come along and revolutionize the MMO genre. Too bad you’ve already got that with GW2 and you had to go and ruin it for the rest of us. Thanks.